Segments

" Net neutrality. Broadband speed. Regulation of the -- These are among the top issues facing the FCC today so it was a good time it's happened."

" FCC chairman Julius genachowski. Our latest -- time. The Wall Street Journal's Walt Mossberg sat down genachowski at the FCC headquarters in Washington DC. Requests. This is deep dialogue -- Julius genachowski. "

" I hired Walt Mossberg I'm not personal technology columnist for The Wall Street Journal. I'm also the co producer. The co editor of the all things digital. Website. And today -- here with that the chairman of the FCC Julius genachowski. And where here under the auspices of the -- dialogue this is the twelfth episode of the big dialogue which isn't. Interview composed of questions. That are submitted by and voted by. Some of the forty million members of -- So it really comes from. Actual users on the Internet. And did Julius I'm gonna I'm gonna well pose these questions to you. Some of the questions were sort of similar so we have combined in paraphrase them but at these really are questions from dig. Community members. K you -- good. So the the first question. Is about net neutrality in there were two of them and they were submitted and voted up. But they were submitted by and I'm gonna. Try my best Julius 3-D screen names. Knows redneck 87. And magistrate. And basically what they wanna know is a what are you doing to ensure net neutrality. And he. How can you explain it to the public when there's just a lot of confusion about what it is may be. You can tell us what you think it is so what are you doing about it what is it you gonna explain it to people. What I believe it's essential that we preserve the freedom."

" And openness of the Internet the Internet. Is of course you know Walt has been an extraordinary. Thing over the last twenty years -- I guess we just celebrated our fortieth fortieth anniversary but certainly over the last decade or two it's really taken off. And is an engine for innovation. For entrepreneurship. For. Exchanging ideas and information. And it has extraordinary potential for the country. If it continues on that trajectory. At a secret sauce of the Internet I believe has been its. Openness. And what we're trying to do with the FCC is make sure that as the Internet unfolds into its next generation. But there's no confusion that the freedom and -- and openness of the Internet. Will be preserved. In order to make sure that we do that we've started. A proceeding at the FCC to ask. How can we take the work that's already been done that the SEC for the last few years that we can come back and and talk about that. And eliminate. Some of the confusion uncertainty lack of predictability. And make it clear. That we'll have rules of the road to preserve the free and open Internet. If we get it YE. Though will preserve the Internet is a vibrant marketplace. Of ideas. Vibrant marketplace. For products and services. A vibrant marketplace. For users to create. Connect to communicate. That on the SEC proceeding itself which is what I hope will be the forum. For. Focusing attention on what the questions and issues are. As I mentioned we launched. Hey what's called here a notice of proposed rule making -- the first step in adopting rules we did that last month. All five commissioners voted to start the proceedings even though there's some just differences of opinion on the commission about what the answer should ultimately be. And now we're gonna do several things at once to engage the public has broadly as we can't. There's that traditional process where. People file written comments. I think that the initial comments are due in December in the reply comments or do a couple of months later. I'm we're also going to take advantage of a new technique that we've been experimenting with that the FCC. Opened staff level workshops. Because we don't want the only. Way to participated the FCC to be the old way you know having Larry you're a filing these comments and so these workshops which reviews in our and our broadband process. Have been and a terrific innovation to it increased participation we have. Our senior staff members. Getting a room. With a group of people who are very knowledgeable about a particular issue sometimes will be lawyers but as often as possible it'll be. Engineers. Business folks. People from different groups in the community. Rolling up their sleeves and a particular issue. And trying to identify what the facts are what the questions are we do it and open way obviously anyone can come in. To these workshops there open. But they're also streamed live over the Internet so people can see them wherever they are and we provide. For the opportunity for people to comment and ask questions wherever they are so we'll do that. With -- open Internet proceeding. As well. You can find out more about it open Internet dot -- And it in my view the way the FCC can get its decisions right is by expanding. The participation. Of anyone who has an interest in issue. Now I have nothing against lawyers I'm I used to be a lawyer and and you know and we need lawyers to have the FCC work rate. What we also really need are. Engineers. Business folks. Ordinary consumers and users of the Internet to participate in our proceedings and let their views. Be known and Nestle try to do over the course of this open Internet proceeding over the next human."

" Well thanks for explaining how war but you really didn't. Talk about the specific phrase net neutrality. Is not exactly the same as a free and open Internet. So who could be against that. But net neutrality has a particular and highly charged political meaning as you know. To the proponents of net neutrality it means that no one. A source of content. Whether it's video or or text from. You know messages or anything that flows over the Internet should be treated any differently than any other should be taxed anymore. You know actual cost anymore whatever. To some other folks who particularly the network operators. Are a little concerned about that because they say. Hey you know there's a small number of people using large numbers of band amount of bandwidth and we need to be able mansion so. Question is what are you gonna do -- and to ensure that -- command -- four net neutrality. What are you gonna do to ensure neutrality. Not just openness and neutrality. Among different kinds of content."

" When that commission issued its proposed rule making last month. Is listed now that proposed rules for debate and discussion. -- the first four. Were based on the Internet principles that the commission had already. Circulate that gave consumers. The right to access the content and services. Of their choice etc. and the first thing we propose was to take those four principles and codify items that there's no question that there FCC rules. And then we added to propose rules to that -- a transparency rule. That would make sure that operators of networks are transparent. About their network management practices so that. Ordinary. Consumers and users of the Internet can know what's going on and senate seat CEOs of new businesses can know what's going on. In the hope that shining some light on network management practices will itself help. Reduce problems and and and in some cases just allow. People to design or or Alter the behavior to reasonable network management practices. -- that we -- that the six principle the fifth principle that we announced the proposed in this filmmaking was a principle of non discrimination. To preserve. Historical understanding that. The market and consumers. Should pick. Winners and losers in. The marketplace of ideas and products and services on the Internet not the companies that provide Internet access. In doing that we recognize that. Networks are complicated. Did you have to be managed and we've also said that it's permissible to engage in reasonable. Network management practices. The purpose of this proceeding now was to take those six. Principles which we've proposed to turn into rules and to engage with what everyone in the community and say okay. What are the rules here that will best. Advance. The goals of preserving the freedom and openness of the Internet. Maximizing. Investment. In the network and on the edge of the network. Maximizing innovation and maximizing the free flow of expression and ideas so somewhere in this process you figure out what that word reasonable means -- Give some guidance about it yet whenever they want to get the balance right because. One of the challenges is it is we all know this is a very fast moving world technologically. And so. We need to be careful. Not to freeze. Existing technologies. And create a disincentive. For. Making it you know at the same time to see. We need to provide every one in the landscape reasonable degree of certainty predictability so they can go forward and we'll be looking for. Together with everyone who has an interest knowledge in this is to find sweet spot. But we can provide. The right level of certainty and predictability but not -- in technologies and affected the opposite to encourage."

" The most vibrant. Innovation. In our networks and on the edge of the network. Thanks. So next question. There are two questions were grouping together that do -- broadband speed. And particularly. The United States as compared to other countries. And these come from Marvin TPA and term. SMU ATO. Thirty SMU -- TO. And and basically what they're asking how well one of them says what are you doing to get the US -- With countries like Japan and Korea in terms of Internet speed. What is holding the US back what needs to change and then the other one mentions that in some countries. According to this person -- Where this for corn this person."

" A couple of countries have said that one mega bit. A per second broadband access is a basic human right we will we follow us anytime soon but I think. You know basically. I'm aware and we -- that the journal and other publications have noted that. We are nowhere near -- even remotely near the top. Developed world in terms of how fast. Are in and at speeds are for the people would have it in here I'm not talking about the question of there are areas of the United States which don't even have broad -- that's a separate question but where we have broadband it's very slow compared to the rest the world. What we call broad band. Isn't even call broad band and some other countries so slow that they don't even. Count it legally is broadband. Can't yet ironically. We pay the most. We pay the most per unit of Internet speed compared to other countries -- doing about it gets worse."

" The there's a gap between. What people between advertised speeds. And what people actually are absolutely so no this is and this is a very real issues. As as a question indicates. The world hasn't been standing still on. -- in quality and access in fact 22 other countries. Have over the last several years adopted broadband plans for their countries. And we haven't. We have an interest a link with one exception. We adopted a plan for connecting our schools. Yes in 1996. And the leadership of senator Rockefeller senator Snowe and congressman Markey. Of course President Clinton and vice president gore we have a plan for connecting classrooms and we went as a country from. About 3%. Connectivity of classrooms in the early. 1990s. To close to a 100%. By 2000. About even there and I'll get back your question for it and then even there we actually. Because we had a plan have done a very good job of connecting classrooms the teachers today about half the teachers say -- speeds are too slow. So we have a real challenge as a country I wish we adopted a broadband plan years ago and we're now in you can be asking me where are we and our implementation of the plan we didn't but here's where we are. In the recovery act adopted by congress and the president several months ago. And congress did two things. Focusing on broadband. One was this part of the recovery package adopt about seven billion dollars in broadband grants to be distributed as quickly as possible through the Commerce Department the Agriculture Department. To help with your term job creation. Let's take a first step. With respect to universal broadband strategy. And -- to -- that's more about. Getting broadband where none exists is -- must have an adult yeah it has elements of the other as well. At the same time congress it to the FCC we want you to put together. Medium and long term national broadband plan for the United States and have to -- in the middle of putting together its due in February's we've met ninety days left. And and we're tackling the issues that you talked about. We're tackling. The speed issue how can we get. Greater levels of speed. In the country. At lower costs. We're tackling the adoption issue right there's there's a problem in this country that even in areas where you where you could get fraud and the no on adoption rate nationally is about 35% it's about 35% of people who could subscribe don't look."

" And that I'm guessing I'm just guessing. Is that we are charging more than other countries do. And delivering these slower speeds yeah you can get broadband or what the FCC is traditionally. Called broadband. But it's not. Anything like put people in Finland or France or someplace can get and it cost a lot more than what people in Finland and France pace so it's not surprising that. Some proportion of people would say this from worth it no affordability is is definitely a dimensions both I think it's both parts of what you're saying. And the affordability peace and also they're still. Large parts of a population that don't appreciate the benefits. Of being on online and so that explains why well the national average of -- adoption is about 35%. In some communities it's much higher almost double that -- among low income Americans -- among seniors among minority groups among Americans and rural areas even where they can. Get -- the percentages are much higher. And so a strategy for tackling man will be very important and and I don't want to short change the deployment piece about 10% of the people in the country. Couldn't get broadband if they wanted to. And that's something that we're looking as part of -- plan as well okay. The next and it's we have three questions. There were all abouts essentially censorship form of regulation of in supposedly indecent material. On radio and TV. And a dig at community members of the DJ and I can."

" Now half inch hole one and Peter BJF. 41. Each had something to say about this that was voted up by other other members I'm just gonna read the first one because I think it's relatively representative of all three. Why does the FCC think I am a child. I'm 32 years old with a wife children a career home and I pay taxes. Who do you think you are to enforce what my children can or cannot see. How can you possibly think that violence is okay for TV but the human body is not. And the others point out that you can change the channel if there's something offensive. You can parent your children. You can make your own decision about what to watch wired U. The federal government making these decisions."

" But the FCC is involved in these issues because there's a clear love that congress adopted dad. Limits. Indecent content and broadcast television after 10 o'clock at night the FCC as the agency after 10 o'clock a live limits to act and it's you have to tackle after death. The SEC's job is to is to enforce the -- and and and that's what we do now. In in doing that there are two things that I think are important to keep in mind for this agency as it does the work that's required by a lot of do. What is to keep in mind the purpose which is -- very focused on kids it's focused on protecting kids and empowering parents. But it's also essential -- this is right there in the communications act. What we do -- do abide by an honor the First Amendment -- Nothing more important then art tradition of free expression. And what we're instructed to do is to enforce the law with respect to -- to do -- no way that completely honors the First Amendment. I come from as you know like come from technology background. I'm personally optimistic. That we can get to a place where. Will need much less hopefully no government involvement in this because. The market will give parents who want solutions. Tools to to solve the climate technological to a technological tools there is of some kind that they can use -- absolutely. And and into the more that we have and we had this thing called the V chip which was supposed to do then. We have to be -- in the -- has been. Not as widely used as people thought my own view is that that happened because. The TV. Has always been a closed platform not an open platform writes regular technology was selected mandated and it's not awful but it's not -- it's clearly not. A technology that's generating a lot of uptake by -- and that may be that there a lot of parents who don't want it. But but then. But what I think we can get as our communications marketplace has become more open and third party innovators can innovate to it. There's no question that there are people that their parents who want. To be able to. And make some decisions about. What content comes in their home with respect to their kids. It would be ideal and most First Amendment friendly. If private entrepreneurs could say well here's that technology downloaded digital data boxer gadget or some of those ATV you can you don't whether it's not exactly where there's a new box you have to buy or whether he had TV becomes an open platform -- plugged into the Internet and parents can make the choices that they want. There were not there yet we have a lot of enforce we have to enforce the law but were also running a proceeding here to look at. These traditional kids issues in a digital world and to ask whether things that we can do. Two two to get more innovation in the marketplace with respect to that tools that give parents. What they want and then allow more individualized. Choice by parents as they."

" Isn't there one more kind of oddity in this. You know we may not be a central us this. Questions since we have three of them it's clear that the people feel strongly about that government intervening and I'm not. I don't assume these people want their children exposed to bad stuff I just so there's that think they may not want you to decide what that is but. But isn't there another odd issue which is the supplies to broadcast television. It doesn't apparently applied -- cable television. And even the words. Cable television or broadcast television sound a little archaic today because. So much video is watched on on on computers. Which actually you have parental controls built in of people wanna use them mean both the Mac and windows operating systems right in the OS. Have parental controls built then. But you're jurisdiction doesn't extend it controlling. Cut the Internet. These so called indecency on the Internet right or or cable TV only this only broadcast. So that's kind of weird. That's right whether there -- a lot of ways that the but communications and technology landscape have been changing so fast. That there are a number of elements. That traditional jurisdiction that that."

" That don't match that changing technological world. But yes you're right the the indecency rules apply to broadcast television. And I'm hopeful that. In. A variety of markets as I said we'll see some innovation we'll see psychotic he mentioned. What what's happening on the Internet to increase the ability appears to make choices. You know that's a world that I think can empower parents little parents choose what they want best for their kids in that honors the First Amendment okay. Marvin TPA cements the question. Had you ever used to."

" I've seen demos and have been in the room with. -- walker. Says the last time I checked. My Dell computer worked on any broadband connection I liked this question because -- vested in in my own words that two other people. Celeste how -- it -- worked on any broadband connection my wife's apple. Laptop also works on this broadband connection so why is it necessary that cell phone models. Are tied exclusively to cellphone carriers. I can only get the Apple iPhone on eighteen team the Motorola Detroit or Blackberry storm on Verizon. The -- call them computers. But yet dictate which computer is allowed to connect and what software can run these computers. What is the FCC -- a step in and finally allow freedom of choice. Freedom of carrier choice and freedom of hard -- choice that I enjoy with other technologies. With a look at it -- it's a great question at a great time and these are all terrific examples of the -- dialogue process and why it's a very healthy thing to generate these kinds of questions. And."

" It is a hard question and I understand. The frustration of consumers when it comes to this and it -- take a step back at it and tell you how right. What's the what's happening in the landscape. There's two parts of of of the ecosystem that are starting to collide with each -- the is. And I'm stealing from what you wrote in this area I apologize I -- bass pale -- and but there there's there's a computer. World. Right where. Completely open by computer you pick whatever browser you wind you can download whatever you want. And you pick whatever network you -- hook it up to exactly. And there's there's that world that we know. And that has worked very well. Then there's this other world going back a few years. Cellphones. That started on on a different model subsidized handsets. Linked to particular carriers. And and and there are various reasons why that started and why that has persisted. What's happening now. Is that. The computer. Side of the is one getting untethered from. That the wall -- he can get Internet access now using. You know these wireless technologies. In that the devices are getting smaller and so this world is moving kind of closer to the center meanwhile the traditional cellphone. World. Well. As you said they're turning into computers. And they're moving over here. And we're gonna have you know these old computer's getting smaller using wireless we have the it was one model with cellphones. Because I'm getting smaller becoming computer."

" And I font. An injury from those things are. Really can't help computers -- I refer them that way and lot of other people into the more powerful in the computers we had two or three years ago right. And they run I mean you know apple as you know is advertising there's a 100000 apps for that. That's an immense amount of software that can run out of written by third parties it's a computer. In the United States she could only -- easily run and on eighteen -- so would. -- go back to the question well why don't you. Step in and say. We're not gonna allow this kind of tying."

" Well we that another reason is a good time casket as we've we end we are looking at this and we have a proceeding to look at for example handset exclusivity. And looking at it in the context of this landscape. There have been some. Positive trends in this case. You know going from a world that didn't have an iPhone to one. We can have a 100000 apps on it. He is the change from how the world looked a couple years ago now we have. Devices for. From other carriers Detroit is out there Blackberry as a device pre. So we're seeing. Movements toward. Openness. And openness from the point of view of software makers billions of yes I agree with that via an -- and it beyond that I don't wanna get ahead of our own proceeding but it's it's another proceeding that we are looking at."

" You know notes and answered this that is that this this question is there there were two of them. Is that you are. Looking into this you have decided this is an issue worth the FCC looking into you have a perceived yes we we've already. Yes we're looking into it would have we were looking into it and it if I can't let this thing there a couple of different dimensions of it that we're looking into. When you think about handset exclusivity. And."

" There is. The carriers that have. Exclusive. Relationships with different product makers. They all all reach a 100% market and so what are the issues that comes. Is. If you're in a market. That doesn't get eighteen T at all or eighteenth -- doesn't and -- and I -- you have you you can't get my -- period or if Verizon isn't there you can't get. I drove I drove it. If so so that's one issue we're looking at an. So maybe with Dylan the geographic gaps it's one question that we're looking and we haven't answered written and you know -- of these things based on the record base in the participation. The other question which is I think when the people go to but I want to emphasize that they really are two different questions here that they relate it is in markets where. Eighteen T and Verizon and T-Mobile -- sprint you know are competing in the each have exclusives. What set. Rules. Most promote. Innovation and investment."

" I gave you know understand that that the view of the questions that. This is incredibly frustrating and makes it harder to switch from one carrier due to another I just wanna be able to get you know its iPhone or android or whatever. -- people who argue that well actually having exclusive deals. Helps promote innovation. And that's the kind of discussion will be had I in the context of the -- of people have. A -- as I gotta tell I get about a 150 emails from readers every day. And I would say every day at least one or two of those emails is this. When will BI pop -- be available on Verizon. -- that because the folks. Feel like they have good Verizon coverage. I'm not knock an eighteen T Mexican side but in their own mind they feel like that maybe -- a Verizon family planner they like the rates that they like the coverage. Where they live but they're dining get an iPhone and what you say could be somebody asking about when will -- be on eighteen TI mean. But it hasn't happened to me it's almost always when Malia iPhone beyond Verizon I have to say I don't know now obviously those two companies could make a deal. And do it but the question is more about our overalls. Legal system that allows these kind of exclusive and it questions stem from some thing that I I fully understand and appreciate which is this frustration. That now people. Want to spend money on a product of their choice and it's harder than it should be that raises questions about. Is this the best way to promote. Competition is that the best way to promote innovation innovation is the best way to make sure that consumers can get the products and services that are legal and available in the market that they want. So these questions come. I understand that they come from just a very understandable frustration that consumers have but they also fit into policy themes that we're pursuing. Around consumer empowerment competition and innovation which is a frame that we look at these -- to think the questioner uses the correct analogy which is. Now that these what I call these things super Smartphones it's difficult to think of the name but I called super Smartphones. -- hand held computers now that they act like computers now there are actually replacing. A lot of uses of laptops. Why don't we have the same system we have with computers where it's a separate. Business choice I choose to do business with GL yeah for the my computer or choose to do business with -- HP year apple. From my computer separate EBE. I choose to do business with. Comcast from my Internet access or. Verizon. War. -- TT. And eight -- the consumer get -- make that combination in my own mind them and decide what's best for me. In terms of the hardware to decide what's best for me in terms of what what web browser or other soft form and Iran and separately decide what's best yet. It's an area where -- question the terms of the network. It's a very very important question we are looking at it and I think. As I mentioned. And you hear more and more much more in the last year than you did three -- four or five years ago. The companies in this space. Recognizing. The benefits."

" Openness and all it's respects. As a business model and a business opportunity. Okay so. I'm hopeful about the trends but it is something we're looking at here to see what the right thing it's for the institute here's last question and I said there were two on that subject them and the reason is that this from -- somewhat related it's a little different. It's submitted by -- Hercules that's a name I can pronounce. And it just says why does America allow a monopoly on specific frequencies that are transmitted over the airwaves. Recently there was a battle for 700 megahertz which is a part of the spectrum. That Verizon one and whenever they NASA technology for that they eight have ultimately got a monopoly. So. Does the FC CC. Any problem with locking consumers. To specific carriers he mentions that again. Why do we do this."

" With frequencies talk about the frequent the idea of auctioning frequencies and mining companies -- views them. I am glad that the question. Mention the seven megs or 700 megahertz proceeding because. The FCC identified spectrum as part of that. And adopted openness rules. And that we'll see. The the flowering as that spectrum comes on the market but let me let me take a step back. Spectrum policy. Is one of the most important areas for the Federal Communications Commission spectrum is. National resource of belongs to all of us in the SEC has for less than five years Heather responsibility. Developing and implementing policies for the spectrum. And we've seen over the years. And changes in spectrum -- policy that are really led to. Benefits used to be that spectrum was allocated by a comparative hearing and lotteries. And eventually that was replaced by auctions. And number one and number two more. Competition was allowed through the way the SEC chose to manage spectrum policy and that's led to. Over the last -- fifteen years. A real boost in the mobile landscape as compared to where it was before. -- we have an obligation to constantly be looking at spectrum policy and to ask. What spectrum policies. Make the most sense to promote the interest of consumers and competition and innovation and investment. And were open to experimentation. The FCC has over the years. Experimented with unlicensed. Spectrum. And dad has had some extraordinary Wi-Fi isn't exactly so this is why -- concert band. That at one point was called among spectrum engineers the junk -- because no one can figure out what to do with it. And the FCC said you know what we don't know what to do with it why don't we just put it out there let people use it without a license and just simply require that they not interfere. With people using other spectrum and see how that works. And and your point one of the things that developed out of that was that was Wi-Fi. And so as we're moving forward we're looking at. What are the best ways to oversee spectrum it's extremely important for the following reason. And the super Smartphones that you mention. Are changing the equation dramatically. When it comes to. Demands. On spectrum. And so we have a pipeline. Of spectrum that will be coming on line. That represents about a threefold increase over what's there now. Which sounds pretty good. Until you see the charts that showed that. The demand that we're likely to see from the super Smartphones will be a thirty time increase over the same periods there's a ten to one -- Eighteen team recently."

" And asked them they may have shared this with views that. In the last twelve quarters I believe. There's data traffic. Has grown nearly 5000%. That's with three zeroes. 5000%. Now obviously that's. Almost all the iPhone. And other people haven't had the iPhone but it's leaving -- there's a lab experiment. Mean could you put pointed out we have the Palm Pre which terrific opponents in that iPhone class we have always android phones. And we have some of the newer blackberries that perform this way. As date all accumulated numbers and if people use them the way they views these eighteen TI phones is everybody's gonna. Demand chart gonna look like benefit does do we have the spectrum for."

" We have a looming spectrum crisis because of this hand. We have started to work on this this by the -- relates to our broadband plan. You know. The -- issue that I'm worried people will be talking about in the near future. And in addition to the ones you mentioned speed affordability will be -- mobile broadband. Isn't working very well. And that's going to be you're -- there article about it. And and -- of this or we'll probably have to tackle we have to do it in in in a variety of ways one as we have to identify. More spectrum to be made available for mobile broadband uses. It's a hard thing to do because there are no easy pickings on the spectral chart but but we have to start now. The second thing is we have to look at the ways that we are spectrum policies and think about whether there are ways that we can. Encourage allow more efficient use of the spectrum so this could be. Secondary placing more spectrum flexibility more unlicensed spectrum. -- that you seek an act goes to this guy's question -- I see a guy could be a woman I have no idea who Hercules is but this person's question about. -- blocking in these blocks of spectrum to certain companies yet we we need to find ways to get the most efficient use of the spectrum. And thinking about unlicensed is is is part of that and thinking about how to get more efficient use of licensed spectrum and to open those upper part of that and and also where. We need to look at the devices themselves. And I'm sure that there's anything the SEC can do here but. And we need our devices. To be. More efficient and smarter. In a few years than they are now. Now I don't have any reason to think that there isn't and investment money going as a that a company markets very concerned that you have a concern about long term. Are indeed in this broad area for the country you know we used to have bell labs. We used to devote more. Dollars in government to long term are Indian communications. Which. Have enormous benefits not the least of which was the Internet. And then one of my concerns is that. We may be under spending in this area for the long term. And that's also something that we're looking at as part of a broadband plan to ask whether -- look at the country over the next 203040 years from. A vantage point of global competitiveness. Are we devoting R&D resources that we need to this broad areas that the country and ten and twenty years is we're wanted to be. On this digital communications landscape that we know isn't gonna become any less important to our -- Which is Jack asking thank you so much for take some time with. The thanks Paul it's great and I'm glad to delegates."

" Net neutrality. Broadband speed. Regulation of the -- These are among the top issues facing the FCC today so it was a good time it's happened."

" FCC chairman Julius genachowski. Our latest -- time. The Wall Street Journal's Walt Mossberg sat down genachowski at the FCC headquarters in Washington DC. Requests. This is deep dialogue -- Julius genachowski. "

" I hired Walt Mossberg I'm not personal technology columnist for The Wall Street Journal. I'm also the co producer. The co editor of the all things digital. Website. And today -- here with that the chairman of the FCC Julius genachowski. And where here under the auspices of the -- dialogue this is the twelfth episode of the big dialogue which isn't. Interview composed of questions. That are submitted by and voted by. Some of the forty million members of -- So it really comes from. Actual users on the Internet. And did Julius I'm gonna I'm gonna well pose these questions to you. Some of the questions were sort of similar so we have combined in paraphrase them but at these really are questions from dig. Community members. K you -- good. So the the first question. Is about net neutrality in there were two of them and they were submitted and voted up. But they were submitted by and I'm gonna. Try my best Julius 3-D screen names. Knows redneck 87. And magistrate. And basically what they wanna know is a what are you doing to ensure net neutrality. And he. How can you explain it to the public when there's just a lot of confusion about what it is may be. You can tell us what you think it is so what are you doing about it what is it you gonna explain it to people. What I believe it's essential that we preserve the freedom."

" And openness of the Internet the Internet. Is of course you know Walt has been an extraordinary. Thing over the last twenty years -- I guess we just celebrated our fortieth fortieth anniversary but certainly over the last decade or two it's really taken off. And is an engine for innovation. For entrepreneurship. For. Exchanging ideas and information. And it has extraordinary potential for the country. If it continues on that trajectory. At a secret sauce of the Internet I believe has been its. Openness. And what we're trying to do with the FCC is make sure that as the Internet unfolds into its next generation. But there's no confusion that the freedom and -- and openness of the Internet. Will be preserved. In order to make sure that we do that we've started. A proceeding at the FCC to ask. How can we take the work that's already been done that the SEC for the last few years that we can come back and and talk about that. And eliminate. Some of the confusion uncertainty lack of predictability. And make it clear. That we'll have rules of the road to preserve the free and open Internet. If we get it YE. Though will preserve the Internet is a vibrant marketplace. Of ideas. Vibrant marketplace. For products and services. A vibrant marketplace. For users to create. Connect to communicate. That on the SEC proceeding itself which is what I hope will be the forum. For. Focusing attention on what the questions and issues are. As I mentioned we launched. Hey what's called here a notice of proposed rule making -- the first step in adopting rules we did that last month. All five commissioners voted to start the proceedings even though there's some just differences of opinion on the commission about what the answer should ultimately be. And now we're gonna do several things at once to engage the public has broadly as we can't. There's that traditional process where. People file written comments. I think that the initial comments are due in December in the reply comments or do a couple of months later. I'm we're also going to take advantage of a new technique that we've been experimenting with that the FCC. Opened staff level workshops. Because we don't want the only. Way to participated the FCC to be the old way you know having Larry you're a filing these comments and so these workshops which reviews in our and our broadband process. Have been and a terrific innovation to it increased participation we have. Our senior staff members. Getting a room. With a group of people who are very knowledgeable about a particular issue sometimes will be lawyers but as often as possible it'll be. Engineers. Business folks. People from different groups in the community. Rolling up their sleeves and a particular issue. And trying to identify what the facts are what the questions are we do it and open way obviously anyone can come in. To these workshops there open. But they're also streamed live over the Internet so people can see them wherever they are and we provide. For the opportunity for people to comment and ask questions wherever they are so we'll do that. With -- open Internet proceeding. As well. You can find out more about it open Internet dot -- And it in my view the way the FCC can get its decisions right is by expanding. The participation. Of anyone who has an interest in issue. Now I have nothing against lawyers I'm I used to be a lawyer and and you know and we need lawyers to have the FCC work rate. What we also really need are. Engineers. Business folks. Ordinary consumers and users of the Internet to participate in our proceedings and let their views. Be known and Nestle try to do over the course of this open Internet proceeding over the next human."

" Well thanks for explaining how war but you really didn't. Talk about the specific phrase net neutrality. Is not exactly the same as a free and open Internet. So who could be against that. But net neutrality has a particular and highly charged political meaning as you know. To the proponents of net neutrality it means that no one. A source of content. Whether it's video or or text from. You know messages or anything that flows over the Internet should be treated any differently than any other should be taxed anymore. You know actual cost anymore whatever. To some other folks who particularly the network operators. Are a little concerned about that because they say. Hey you know there's a small number of people using large numbers of band amount of bandwidth and we need to be able mansion so. Question is what are you gonna do -- and to ensure that -- command -- four net neutrality. What are you gonna do to ensure neutrality. Not just openness and neutrality. Among different kinds of content."

" When that commission issued its proposed rule making last month. Is listed now that proposed rules for debate and discussion. -- the first four. Were based on the Internet principles that the commission had already. Circulate that gave consumers. The right to access the content and services. Of their choice etc. and the first thing we propose was to take those four principles and codify items that there's no question that there FCC rules. And then we added to propose rules to that -- a transparency rule. That would make sure that operators of networks are transparent. About their network management practices so that. Ordinary. Consumers and users of the Internet can know what's going on and senate seat CEOs of new businesses can know what's going on. In the hope that shining some light on network management practices will itself help. Reduce problems and and and in some cases just allow. People to design or or Alter the behavior to reasonable network management practices. -- that we -- that the six principle the fifth principle that we announced the proposed in this filmmaking was a principle of non discrimination. To preserve. Historical understanding that. The market and consumers. Should pick. Winners and losers in. The marketplace of ideas and products and services on the Internet not the companies that provide Internet access. In doing that we recognize that. Networks are complicated. Did you have to be managed and we've also said that it's permissible to engage in reasonable. Network management practices. The purpose of this proceeding now was to take those six. Principles which we've proposed to turn into rules and to engage with what everyone in the community and say okay. What are the rules here that will best. Advance. The goals of preserving the freedom and openness of the Internet. Maximizing. Investment. In the network and on the edge of the network. Maximizing innovation and maximizing the free flow of expression and ideas so somewhere in this process you figure out what that word reasonable means -- Give some guidance about it yet whenever they want to get the balance right because. One of the challenges is it is we all know this is a very fast moving world technologically. And so. We need to be careful. Not to freeze. Existing technologies. And create a disincentive. For. Making it you know at the same time to see. We need to provide every one in the landscape reasonable degree of certainty predictability so they can go forward and we'll be looking for. Together with everyone who has an interest knowledge in this is to find sweet spot. But we can provide. The right level of certainty and predictability but not -- in technologies and affected the opposite to encourage."

" The most vibrant. Innovation. In our networks and on the edge of the network. Thanks. So next question. There are two questions were grouping together that do -- broadband speed. And particularly. The United States as compared to other countries. And these come from Marvin TPA and term. SMU ATO. Thirty SMU -- TO. And and basically what they're asking how well one of them says what are you doing to get the US -- With countries like Japan and Korea in terms of Internet speed. What is holding the US back what needs to change and then the other one mentions that in some countries. According to this person -- Where this for corn this person."

" A couple of countries have said that one mega bit. A per second broadband access is a basic human right we will we follow us anytime soon but I think. You know basically. I'm aware and we -- that the journal and other publications have noted that. We are nowhere near -- even remotely near the top. Developed world in terms of how fast. Are in and at speeds are for the people would have it in here I'm not talking about the question of there are areas of the United States which don't even have broad -- that's a separate question but where we have broadband it's very slow compared to the rest the world. What we call broad band. Isn't even call broad band and some other countries so slow that they don't even. Count it legally is broadband. Can't yet ironically. We pay the most. We pay the most per unit of Internet speed compared to other countries -- doing about it gets worse."

" The there's a gap between. What people between advertised speeds. And what people actually are absolutely so no this is and this is a very real issues. As as a question indicates. The world hasn't been standing still on. -- in quality and access in fact 22 other countries. Have over the last several years adopted broadband plans for their countries. And we haven't. We have an interest a link with one exception. We adopted a plan for connecting our schools. Yes in 1996. And the leadership of senator Rockefeller senator Snowe and congressman Markey. Of course President Clinton and vice president gore we have a plan for connecting classrooms and we went as a country from. About 3%. Connectivity of classrooms in the early. 1990s. To close to a 100%. By 2000. About even there and I'll get back your question for it and then even there we actually. Because we had a plan have done a very good job of connecting classrooms the teachers today about half the teachers say -- speeds are too slow. So we have a real challenge as a country I wish we adopted a broadband plan years ago and we're now in you can be asking me where are we and our implementation of the plan we didn't but here's where we are. In the recovery act adopted by congress and the president several months ago. And congress did two things. Focusing on broadband. One was this part of the recovery package adopt about seven billion dollars in broadband grants to be distributed as quickly as possible through the Commerce Department the Agriculture Department. To help with your term job creation. Let's take a first step. With respect to universal broadband strategy. And -- to -- that's more about. Getting broadband where none exists is -- must have an adult yeah it has elements of the other as well. At the same time congress it to the FCC we want you to put together. Medium and long term national broadband plan for the United States and have to -- in the middle of putting together its due in February's we've met ninety days left. And and we're tackling the issues that you talked about. We're tackling. The speed issue how can we get. Greater levels of speed. In the country. At lower costs. We're tackling the adoption issue right there's there's a problem in this country that even in areas where you where you could get fraud and the no on adoption rate nationally is about 35% it's about 35% of people who could subscribe don't look."

" And that I'm guessing I'm just guessing. Is that we are charging more than other countries do. And delivering these slower speeds yeah you can get broadband or what the FCC is traditionally. Called broadband. But it's not. Anything like put people in Finland or France or someplace can get and it cost a lot more than what people in Finland and France pace so it's not surprising that. Some proportion of people would say this from worth it no affordability is is definitely a dimensions both I think it's both parts of what you're saying. And the affordability peace and also they're still. Large parts of a population that don't appreciate the benefits. Of being on online and so that explains why well the national average of -- adoption is about 35%. In some communities it's much higher almost double that -- among low income Americans -- among seniors among minority groups among Americans and rural areas even where they can. Get -- the percentages are much higher. And so a strategy for tackling man will be very important and and I don't want to short change the deployment piece about 10% of the people in the country. Couldn't get broadband if they wanted to. And that's something that we're looking as part of -- plan as well okay. The next and it's we have three questions. There were all abouts essentially censorship form of regulation of in supposedly indecent material. On radio and TV. And a dig at community members of the DJ and I can."

" Now half inch hole one and Peter BJF. 41. Each had something to say about this that was voted up by other other members I'm just gonna read the first one because I think it's relatively representative of all three. Why does the FCC think I am a child. I'm 32 years old with a wife children a career home and I pay taxes. Who do you think you are to enforce what my children can or cannot see. How can you possibly think that violence is okay for TV but the human body is not. And the others point out that you can change the channel if there's something offensive. You can parent your children. You can make your own decision about what to watch wired U. The federal government making these decisions."

" But the FCC is involved in these issues because there's a clear love that congress adopted dad. Limits. Indecent content and broadcast television after 10 o'clock at night the FCC as the agency after 10 o'clock a live limits to act and it's you have to tackle after death. The SEC's job is to is to enforce the -- and and and that's what we do now. In in doing that there are two things that I think are important to keep in mind for this agency as it does the work that's required by a lot of do. What is to keep in mind the purpose which is -- very focused on kids it's focused on protecting kids and empowering parents. But it's also essential -- this is right there in the communications act. What we do -- do abide by an honor the First Amendment -- Nothing more important then art tradition of free expression. And what we're instructed to do is to enforce the law with respect to -- to do -- no way that completely honors the First Amendment. I come from as you know like come from technology background. I'm personally optimistic. That we can get to a place where. Will need much less hopefully no government involvement in this because. The market will give parents who want solutions. Tools to to solve the climate technological to a technological tools there is of some kind that they can use -- absolutely. And and into the more that we have and we had this thing called the V chip which was supposed to do then. We have to be -- in the -- has been. Not as widely used as people thought my own view is that that happened because. The TV. Has always been a closed platform not an open platform writes regular technology was selected mandated and it's not awful but it's not -- it's clearly not. A technology that's generating a lot of uptake by -- and that may be that there a lot of parents who don't want it. But but then. But what I think we can get as our communications marketplace has become more open and third party innovators can innovate to it. There's no question that there are people that their parents who want. To be able to. And make some decisions about. What content comes in their home with respect to their kids. It would be ideal and most First Amendment friendly. If private entrepreneurs could say well here's that technology downloaded digital data boxer gadget or some of those ATV you can you don't whether it's not exactly where there's a new box you have to buy or whether he had TV becomes an open platform -- plugged into the Internet and parents can make the choices that they want. There were not there yet we have a lot of enforce we have to enforce the law but were also running a proceeding here to look at. These traditional kids issues in a digital world and to ask whether things that we can do. Two two to get more innovation in the marketplace with respect to that tools that give parents. What they want and then allow more individualized. Choice by parents as they."

" Isn't there one more kind of oddity in this. You know we may not be a central us this. Questions since we have three of them it's clear that the people feel strongly about that government intervening and I'm not. I don't assume these people want their children exposed to bad stuff I just so there's that think they may not want you to decide what that is but. But isn't there another odd issue which is the supplies to broadcast television. It doesn't apparently applied -- cable television. And even the words. Cable television or broadcast television sound a little archaic today because. So much video is watched on on on computers. Which actually you have parental controls built in of people wanna use them mean both the Mac and windows operating systems right in the OS. Have parental controls built then. But you're jurisdiction doesn't extend it controlling. Cut the Internet. These so called indecency on the Internet right or or cable TV only this only broadcast. So that's kind of weird. That's right whether there -- a lot of ways that the but communications and technology landscape have been changing so fast. That there are a number of elements. That traditional jurisdiction that that."

" That don't match that changing technological world. But yes you're right the the indecency rules apply to broadcast television. And I'm hopeful that. In. A variety of markets as I said we'll see some innovation we'll see psychotic he mentioned. What what's happening on the Internet to increase the ability appears to make choices. You know that's a world that I think can empower parents little parents choose what they want best for their kids in that honors the First Amendment okay. Marvin TPA cements the question. Had you ever used to."

" I've seen demos and have been in the room with. -- walker. Says the last time I checked. My Dell computer worked on any broadband connection I liked this question because -- vested in in my own words that two other people. Celeste how -- it -- worked on any broadband connection my wife's apple. Laptop also works on this broadband connection so why is it necessary that cell phone models. Are tied exclusively to cellphone carriers. I can only get the Apple iPhone on eighteen team the Motorola Detroit or Blackberry storm on Verizon. The -- call them computers. But yet dictate which computer is allowed to connect and what software can run these computers. What is the FCC -- a step in and finally allow freedom of choice. Freedom of carrier choice and freedom of hard -- choice that I enjoy with other technologies. With a look at it -- it's a great question at a great time and these are all terrific examples of the -- dialogue process and why it's a very healthy thing to generate these kinds of questions. And."

" It is a hard question and I understand. The frustration of consumers when it comes to this and it -- take a step back at it and tell you how right. What's the what's happening in the landscape. There's two parts of of of the ecosystem that are starting to collide with each -- the is. And I'm stealing from what you wrote in this area I apologize I -- bass pale -- and but there there's there's a computer. World. Right where. Completely open by computer you pick whatever browser you wind you can download whatever you want. And you pick whatever network you -- hook it up to exactly. And there's there's that world that we know. And that has worked very well. Then there's this other world going back a few years. Cellphones. That started on on a different model subsidized handsets. Linked to particular carriers. And and and there are various reasons why that started and why that has persisted. What's happening now. Is that. The computer. Side of the is one getting untethered from. That the wall -- he can get Internet access now using. You know these wireless technologies. In that the devices are getting smaller and so this world is moving kind of closer to the center meanwhile the traditional cellphone. World. Well. As you said they're turning into computers. And they're moving over here. And we're gonna have you know these old computer's getting smaller using wireless we have the it was one model with cellphones. Because I'm getting smaller becoming computer."

" And I font. An injury from those things are. Really can't help computers -- I refer them that way and lot of other people into the more powerful in the computers we had two or three years ago right. And they run I mean you know apple as you know is advertising there's a 100000 apps for that. That's an immense amount of software that can run out of written by third parties it's a computer. In the United States she could only -- easily run and on eighteen -- so would. -- go back to the question well why don't you. Step in and say. We're not gonna allow this kind of tying."

" Well we that another reason is a good time casket as we've we end we are looking at this and we have a proceeding to look at for example handset exclusivity. And looking at it in the context of this landscape. There have been some. Positive trends in this case. You know going from a world that didn't have an iPhone to one. We can have a 100000 apps on it. He is the change from how the world looked a couple years ago now we have. Devices for. From other carriers Detroit is out there Blackberry as a device pre. So we're seeing. Movements toward. Openness. And openness from the point of view of software makers billions of yes I agree with that via an -- and it beyond that I don't wanna get ahead of our own proceeding but it's it's another proceeding that we are looking at."

" You know notes and answered this that is that this this question is there there were two of them. Is that you are. Looking into this you have decided this is an issue worth the FCC looking into you have a perceived yes we we've already. Yes we're looking into it would have we were looking into it and it if I can't let this thing there a couple of different dimensions of it that we're looking into. When you think about handset exclusivity. And."

" There is. The carriers that have. Exclusive. Relationships with different product makers. They all all reach a 100% market and so what are the issues that comes. Is. If you're in a market. That doesn't get eighteen T at all or eighteenth -- doesn't and -- and I -- you have you you can't get my -- period or if Verizon isn't there you can't get. I drove I drove it. If so so that's one issue we're looking at an. So maybe with Dylan the geographic gaps it's one question that we're looking and we haven't answered written and you know -- of these things based on the record base in the participation. The other question which is I think when the people go to but I want to emphasize that they really are two different questions here that they relate it is in markets where. Eighteen T and Verizon and T-Mobile -- sprint you know are competing in the each have exclusives. What set. Rules. Most promote. Innovation and investment."

" I gave you know understand that that the view of the questions that. This is incredibly frustrating and makes it harder to switch from one carrier due to another I just wanna be able to get you know its iPhone or android or whatever. -- people who argue that well actually having exclusive deals. Helps promote innovation. And that's the kind of discussion will be had I in the context of the -- of people have. A -- as I gotta tell I get about a 150 emails from readers every day. And I would say every day at least one or two of those emails is this. When will BI pop -- be available on Verizon. -- that because the folks. Feel like they have good Verizon coverage. I'm not knock an eighteen T Mexican side but in their own mind they feel like that maybe -- a Verizon family planner they like the rates that they like the coverage. Where they live but they're dining get an iPhone and what you say could be somebody asking about when will -- be on eighteen TI mean. But it hasn't happened to me it's almost always when Malia iPhone beyond Verizon I have to say I don't know now obviously those two companies could make a deal. And do it but the question is more about our overalls. Legal system that allows these kind of exclusive and it questions stem from some thing that I I fully understand and appreciate which is this frustration. That now people. Want to spend money on a product of their choice and it's harder than it should be that raises questions about. Is this the best way to promote. Competition is that the best way to promote innovation innovation is the best way to make sure that consumers can get the products and services that are legal and available in the market that they want. So these questions come. I understand that they come from just a very understandable frustration that consumers have but they also fit into policy themes that we're pursuing. Around consumer empowerment competition and innovation which is a frame that we look at these -- to think the questioner uses the correct analogy which is. Now that these what I call these things super Smartphones it's difficult to think of the name but I called super Smartphones. -- hand held computers now that they act like computers now there are actually replacing. A lot of uses of laptops. Why don't we have the same system we have with computers where it's a separate. Business choice I choose to do business with GL yeah for the my computer or choose to do business with -- HP year apple. From my computer separate EBE. I choose to do business with. Comcast from my Internet access or. Verizon. War. -- TT. And eight -- the consumer get -- make that combination in my own mind them and decide what's best for me. In terms of the hardware to decide what's best for me in terms of what what web browser or other soft form and Iran and separately decide what's best yet. It's an area where -- question the terms of the network. It's a very very important question we are looking at it and I think. As I mentioned. And you hear more and more much more in the last year than you did three -- four or five years ago. The companies in this space. Recognizing. The benefits."

" Openness and all it's respects. As a business model and a business opportunity. Okay so. I'm hopeful about the trends but it is something we're looking at here to see what the right thing it's for the institute here's last question and I said there were two on that subject them and the reason is that this from -- somewhat related it's a little different. It's submitted by -- Hercules that's a name I can pronounce. And it just says why does America allow a monopoly on specific frequencies that are transmitted over the airwaves. Recently there was a battle for 700 megahertz which is a part of the spectrum. That Verizon one and whenever they NASA technology for that they eight have ultimately got a monopoly. So. Does the FC CC. Any problem with locking consumers. To specific carriers he mentions that again. Why do we do this."

" With frequencies talk about the frequent the idea of auctioning frequencies and mining companies -- views them. I am glad that the question. Mention the seven megs or 700 megahertz proceeding because. The FCC identified spectrum as part of that. And adopted openness rules. And that we'll see. The the flowering as that spectrum comes on the market but let me let me take a step back. Spectrum policy. Is one of the most important areas for the Federal Communications Commission spectrum is. National resource of belongs to all of us in the SEC has for less than five years Heather responsibility. Developing and implementing policies for the spectrum. And we've seen over the years. And changes in spectrum -- policy that are really led to. Benefits used to be that spectrum was allocated by a comparative hearing and lotteries. And eventually that was replaced by auctions. And number one and number two more. Competition was allowed through the way the SEC chose to manage spectrum policy and that's led to. Over the last -- fifteen years. A real boost in the mobile landscape as compared to where it was before. -- we have an obligation to constantly be looking at spectrum policy and to ask. What spectrum policies. Make the most sense to promote the interest of consumers and competition and innovation and investment. And were open to experimentation. The FCC has over the years. Experimented with unlicensed. Spectrum. And dad has had some extraordinary Wi-Fi isn't exactly so this is why -- concert band. That at one point was called among spectrum engineers the junk -- because no one can figure out what to do with it. And the FCC said you know what we don't know what to do with it why don't we just put it out there let people use it without a license and just simply require that they not interfere. With people using other spectrum and see how that works. And and your point one of the things that developed out of that was that was Wi-Fi. And so as we're moving forward we're looking at. What are the best ways to oversee spectrum it's extremely important for the following reason. And the super Smartphones that you mention. Are changing the equation dramatically. When it comes to. Demands. On spectrum. And so we have a pipeline. Of spectrum that will be coming on line. That represents about a threefold increase over what's there now. Which sounds pretty good. Until you see the charts that showed that. The demand that we're likely to see from the super Smartphones will be a thirty time increase over the same periods there's a ten to one -- Eighteen team recently."

" And asked them they may have shared this with views that. In the last twelve quarters I believe. There's data traffic. Has grown nearly 5000%. That's with three zeroes. 5000%. Now obviously that's. Almost all the iPhone. And other people haven't had the iPhone but it's leaving -- there's a lab experiment. Mean could you put pointed out we have the Palm Pre which terrific opponents in that iPhone class we have always android phones. And we have some of the newer blackberries that perform this way. As date all accumulated numbers and if people use them the way they views these eighteen TI phones is everybody's gonna. Demand chart gonna look like benefit does do we have the spectrum for."

" We have a looming spectrum crisis because of this hand. We have started to work on this this by the -- relates to our broadband plan. You know. The -- issue that I'm worried people will be talking about in the near future. And in addition to the ones you mentioned speed affordability will be -- mobile broadband. Isn't working very well. And that's going to be you're -- there article about it. And and -- of this or we'll probably have to tackle we have to do it in in in a variety of ways one as we have to identify. More spectrum to be made available for mobile broadband uses. It's a hard thing to do because there are no easy pickings on the spectral chart but but we have to start now. The second thing is we have to look at the ways that we are spectrum policies and think about whether there are ways that we can. Encourage allow more efficient use of the spectrum so this could be. Secondary placing more spectrum flexibility more unlicensed spectrum. -- that you seek an act goes to this guy's question -- I see a guy could be a woman I have no idea who Hercules is but this person's question about. -- blocking in these blocks of spectrum to certain companies yet we we need to find ways to get the most efficient use of the spectrum. And thinking about unlicensed is is is part of that and thinking about how to get more efficient use of licensed spectrum and to open those upper part of that and and also where. We need to look at the devices themselves. And I'm sure that there's anything the SEC can do here but. And we need our devices. To be. More efficient and smarter. In a few years than they are now. Now I don't have any reason to think that there isn't and investment money going as a that a company markets very concerned that you have a concern about long term. Are indeed in this broad area for the country you know we used to have bell labs. We used to devote more. Dollars in government to long term are Indian communications. Which. Have enormous benefits not the least of which was the Internet. And then one of my concerns is that. We may be under spending in this area for the long term. And that's also something that we're looking at as part of a broadband plan to ask whether -- look at the country over the next 203040 years from. A vantage point of global competitiveness. Are we devoting R&D resources that we need to this broad areas that the country and ten and twenty years is we're wanted to be. On this digital communications landscape that we know isn't gonna become any less important to our -- Which is Jack asking thank you so much for take some time with. The thanks Paul it's great and I'm glad to delegates."