View Full Version : Iwo Jima
gm_wil
10-19-2006, 01:28 AM
A year or so ago I went to a marine drill demonstation in St Paul, MN...and afterwards the Gov said there was a special guest...and he said one of the guys at the flag raising in Iwo Jima was there...now, most of us there had been in the military, but there were a lot who were not...as soon as the Gov said that, every single person in the stadium was on their feet shouting and cheering as loud as they could...I had never heard a crowd be that loud before...it was pretty incredible.
satori
10-19-2006, 01:52 AM
Never been in the Military directly, but I was in Air Cadets (goverment funded in Canada). I get the entire concept of heros etc, but that flag raising was symbolic, not really heroic. Not saying they weren't heros, because I think they were... but the flag raising itself I don't think should be praised in this day as the thing it was at the time. All the souls who gave their all to take Iwo Jima (like 3 of the guys raising the flag) deserve that applause. IMHO... The guy deserves applause because he was at Iwo Jima, not because he raised the flag, or made it in to a pic... IMHO
abacusand13south
10-19-2006, 03:28 PM
I agree completely with what satori said and wasnt there actually 2 flag raisings? There was the original one and then the second one that was completely staged for the cameras, right?
muled
10-19-2006, 05:49 PM
I agree completely with what satori said and wasnt there actually 2 flag raisings? There was the original one and then the second one that was completely staged for the cameras, right?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raising_the_Flag_on_Iwo_Jima
Not staged for the camera but it talks about some confusion that happened when talking about 2 different photos from the same photographer. One was staged because it was a group shot and when asked if it was staged he thought they meant the group shot so you said "of course" but the question was about the flag raising photo.
And ya 2 flag raisings. But the second wasn't for the camera.
abacusand13south
10-19-2006, 06:08 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raising_the_Flag_on_Iwo_Jima
Not staged for the camera but it talks about some confusion that happened when talking about 2 different photos from the same photographer. One was staged because it was a group shot and when asked if it was staged he thought they meant the group shot so you said "of course" but the question was about the flag raising photo.
And ya 2 flag raisings. But the second wasn't for the camera.
Thanks for clarifying that man.
slowmtnsilhouette
10-19-2006, 06:32 PM
the memorial at arlington is amazing...
muled
10-19-2006, 07:00 PM
Thanks for clarifying that man.
No Prob.
I was curious about it after they reviewed Fags of our Fathers so I looked it up and it was fresh in my head.
satori
10-19-2006, 07:13 PM
Fags of our Fathers
Gay bucket!
masherscf
10-19-2006, 08:08 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raising_the_Flag_on_Iwo_Jima
Not staged for the camera but it talks about some confusion that happened when talking about 2 different photos from the same photographer. One was staged because it was a group shot and when asked if it was staged he thought they meant the group shot so you said "of course" but the question was about the flag raising photo.
And ya 2 flag raisings. But the second wasn't for the camera.
Click here (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5715088), Click here (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5682411) or
The whole "staged" story is a bit of misunderstanding. The actual raising photo was cropped from a larger establishing shot. It was developed and cropped without the aid of the photographer (he was still at IWO, afterall). The photographer had actually posed the marines in front of the camera in a later frame. When some asked him about the famous photo, he assumed they were taking about the later shot and told them it was posed. It was only when he actually saw the picture in question and realiized his mistake. However, the story was already out there.
It's a funny story about the power of fixing things in the darkroom. The photographer really had no idea what he had taken, it had happened so fast.
Oh yes, it was the first raising of a smaller flag that wasn't on camera. The second raising was mearly for a larger flag. The photographers just happened to be there.
muled
10-19-2006, 10:36 PM
I like these two things quoted from wikipedia
"Forrestal was so taken with fervor of the moment that he decided he wanted the Suribachi flag as a souvenir. The news of this wish did not sit well with [2nd Battalion Commander] Chandler Johnson, whose temperament was every bit as fiery as Howlin Mad's. 'To hell with that!' the colonel spat when the message reached him. The flag belonged to the battalion, as far as Johnson was concerned. He decided to secure it as soon as possible, and dispatched his assistant operations officer, Lieutenant Ted Tuttle, to the beach to scare up a replacement flag. As an afterthought, Johnson called after Tuttle "And make it a bigger one"
Make it a bigger one!
"Out of the corner of my eye, I had seen the men start the flag up. I swung my camera and shot the scene. That is how the picture was taken, and when you take a picture like that, you don't come away saying you got a great shot. You don't know."
Yep swung it up and took the shot. 2 seconds away of never having this photo and all the things that followed because of it.
klitzy
10-19-2006, 10:41 PM
Never been in the Military directly, but I was in Air Cadets (goverment funded in Canada). I get the entire concept of heros etc, but that flag raising was symbolic, not really heroic. Not saying they weren't heros, because I think they were... but the flag raising itself I don't think should be praised in this day as the thing it was at the time. All the souls who gave their all to take Iwo Jima (like 3 of the guys raising the flag) deserve that applause. IMHO... The guy deserves applause because he was at Iwo Jima, not because he raised the flag, or made it in to a pic... IMHO
Don't those three guys who play the three guys in the movie recognize that and say something like..."We are not the heroes, the people who are not here are the heroes." Could be wrong though.
masherscf
10-20-2006, 12:27 AM
The guy deserves applause because he was at Iwo Jima, not because he raised the flag, or made it in to a pic... IMHO
Many of the guys in that famous picture never left IWO alive.
seumas
10-20-2006, 02:06 AM
__________
gm_wil
10-20-2006, 03:14 PM
I said he was AT the flag raising...not IN the flag raising...and the applause wasn't for the flag raising...the applause was for him...because he bled on Iwo Jima.
gm_wil
10-21-2006, 12:07 AM
They just did a story on the guy I saw...He was in the first flag raising...not the second one that the picture is of...
bcool
10-21-2006, 05:14 AM
Never underestimate the ease with which the average American can be overwhelmed by pointless symbolism. :/
By the way, I thought they were all dead by now?
yeah that's pretty amazing - say they were 20 in 1945, so they'd be ~80 something now. we'll see if the vietnam vets live that long given all of the chemicals (and drugs) they were exposed to.