View Full Version : Yet another continuity thought...
sullivan85
11-01-2007, 02:52 PM
This weeks podcast, in particular the discussion about First Class and continuity got me thinking. I'm sure my thoughts here are not original, nor am I the first to post them on this forum.
Marvel's continuity, although stretching back to the 60s, always seems to only go back ten years or more in comic-time. I'm sure I read this somewhere too. So while most events that have taken place in Marvel comics since the 60s remain in continuity, the year in which any event took place is fluid. I don't think of the X-Men being formed in the 60s, I think they were formed about 10 years ago. And in another 5 years, I'll still only think of the X-men being formed about 10 years (maybe 11 at that point) ago. This would line up with the approximate age of the characters too I think. If I think along these lines, then X-Men: First Class fits into continuity.
In Brubaker's Cap run, doesn't Steve make a reference to the fact he has only been unfrozen about 10 years? If you were to get literal about it, since Steve's been unfrozen for 40 years in real-time at this point the "man out of time" would hardly relevant anymore. If you apply the 10 year rule, then it still remains a defining aspect of his character.
Let the bashing begin!
davegraham
11-01-2007, 03:19 PM
So Peter Parker is about my age (26)? Cool!
A ten year span for continuity makes sense, but I don't know if it has to be sworn into fanboy law. I mean take all of the major events in Marvel continuity. Every origin story. Every company wide crossover. Every X-Crossover. And cram all of that into a ten year timeline. It would be interesting to see how that comes out. I imagine things will mash together in a very silly way.
On Monday the Infinity Gauntlet almost destroyed the universe. On Tuesday the Infinity War occured. On Wednesday new comics came out. On Thursday the Inifinity Crusade happened. On Friday Peter's rent check was due.
mikegraham6
11-01-2007, 03:24 PM
A ten year span for continuity makes sense, but I don't know if it has to be sworn into fanboy law. I mean take all of the major events in Marvel continuity. Every origin story. Every company wide crossover. Every X-Crossover. And cram all of that into a ten year timeline. It would be interesting to see how that comes out. I imagine things will mash together in a very silly way.
i bet you someone, somewhere on the net has done a timeline of this
drwally
11-01-2007, 03:41 PM
On Monday the Infinity Gauntlet almost destroyed the universe. On Tuesday the Infinity War occured. On Wednesday new comics came out. On Thursday the Inifinity Crusade happened. On Friday Peter's rent check was due.
Oh Dave, that is hilarious. I love how the universe is spared of any destructive event the days comics come out and the rent is due. Genius.
Actually, one reason I dropped Avengers: The Iniative was the gigantic Hydra ship flying over the Crawford ranch. With New Avengers and Mighty Avengers, I can take about that much giant earth shattering, planet threatening havok, but the GIGANTIC Hydra ship with fleet of attack ships was just too much. I like that Brubaker and Bendis actually don't put the world at threat every two issues, and find much more interesting stories in "smaller" events and places.
Monday: Crawford Ranch attacked by GIGANTIC Hydra ship
Tuesday: Ultron Lady interrupts all programming to say she is destroying the world, cue nuclear missle.
Wednesday: Comic fans dodge and dash through flying rubble in NYC to buy their comics as the Hulk rampages and fights all heroes in Manhattan.
Thursday: Symbiotes attack NYC Avengers Tower
Friday: Rent is due. Landlord calls to enquire when you are coming by with the check, you can barely hear him due to massive gunfire and laser blasts in the background on his side of the telephone line. Venom crashes through your front window.
Stamford...where? What happened? Nevermind....
luthor
11-01-2007, 03:52 PM
Peter David once said that the only way you could truly work out Marvel Continuity was by realizing that there are more hours in the day in the MU. I believe he said there were 28 hours in a Marvel day. Since I heard that, I've just kind of accepted it as fact and had very little problems with Marvel continuity.
mikegraham6
11-01-2007, 03:56 PM
i dont like thinking about stuff like this because really, it doesn't make any sense (a 28 hour day?!?! really?)
listen, if you can accept that a man can fly, just suspend your disbelief about time continuity, its not that hard really. just enjoy the stories
sullivan85
11-01-2007, 04:03 PM
Regardless if one adheres to a ten (or nine or eleven) year rule, what I'm getting at is you need to completely disregard the date the comic was published as the date the event occured in the MU.
That make sense?
six-gun
11-01-2007, 04:05 PM
time is malleable to fit the stories, if writers become too beholden to time, then that's another barrier to storytelling
drwally
11-01-2007, 04:52 PM
I have no continuity issues at all, I can totally roll with it, and accept whatever. Even though I adore silver age Marvel and all that, I think the 10 year rule and the 28 hour day is just fine.
What I don't like is the "world will be destroyed every other day" thing. If you think about it, most of the events of many of the best books could occur with the vast majority of the planet being completely and blissfully ignorant about what happened. I like high stakes of great jeopardy, but in intiimate settings. Then the continuity thing is really not at issue at all, because linking a story too strongly to superficial things like contemporary settings or artificially high stakes (world to be destroyed every other day) is just boring in and of itself.
sullivan85
11-01-2007, 05:05 PM
I know you can't get too wrapped up in this stuff if you want to enjoy the comics. But these are the thoughts I'm bound to have if I spend time thinking about the comics I read.
Thanks be for the non-Big Two books that don't cause me to have such thoughts.
I would start reading the Initiative again if the big Hydra ship bumped into the giant floating-Asgard-over-Kansas because the minions were looking the wrong way.
Comics is the cwaziest people.
paper
11-01-2007, 05:14 PM
A lot of the energy used to find and complain about continuity could probably be used to contribute to some creative endeavor.
"Peanut Gallery" is an apt term. So much can be done with a peanut. So, that's a choice I guess. complain, nitpick, or make rocket fuel.
drwally
11-01-2007, 05:23 PM
I would start reading the Initiative again if the big Hydra ship bumped into the giant floating-Asgard-over-Kansas because the minions were looking the wrong way.
Comics is the cwaziest people.
Actually, that was kind of the impression I got from that one issue I read of NextWave: Agents of Hate -- (that, and the fact that somebody was very high when they did that book)
Tad has changed my mind. I can take the giant Hydra ship, but Groucho Marx has to run the bridge with Chico and Harpo (Zippo is the guy with the mask on)
paper: the only thing worse than a critic is a critic who criti...oh nevermind. Just tossing peanuts across the classroom....:D
sullivan85
11-01-2007, 07:21 PM
A lot of the energy used to find and complain about continuity could probably be used to contribute to some creative endeavor.
"Peanut Gallery" is an apt term. So much can be done with a peanut. So, that's a choice I guess. complain, nitpick, or make rocket fuel.
I wasn't complaining about continuity, I was just explaining how I like to look at the passage of time in the MU when placed against the release date of the actual issues.
paper
11-01-2007, 07:32 PM
I apologize then. Rough day. I just see the word "continuity" and lash out.
sullivan85
11-01-2007, 07:41 PM
I apologize then. Rough day. I just see the word "continuity" and lash out.
No worries!
esophagus
11-01-2007, 07:49 PM
Here's my thoughts on comicbook timelines, take them or leave them: They don't exist in our reality. The same way we don't have people who fly, people who read minds, and invading alieans, we don't have the time of a comic universe.
If we wanted to move literally Cap would be nearing his sixties, but that's obviously an inappropriate progression. WWII happened in the 1940's here, but in comic books it happened in year A. After that there was year B. It was the 1960's here, making a fairly substantial progression, but it didn't work that way there. There all of the heroes were emerging not long after, or had existed throughout WWII. Then there was year C with the Kree-Skrull War, and so on and so forth. This puts the Marvel timeline at happening in about thirteen years. Whether you want to say their days are eighty hours long, or their year is one thousand days, it all fits into that. Publication date comes into the question nowhere outside of the art. Obviously, in 1940's buildings were drawn like they existed in the 1940's, and today they are drawn to exist like they look today. Do I want to think that means the Marvel Universe progresses faster than hours, as they moved decades in 10-15 years? No. I want to leave it alone, and let some things be out of my hands. It's just a good time.
If the last 50 years had actually taken up 10 years then they would need to have 120 hour days.
My work day feels that long sometimes.
esophagus
11-01-2007, 09:59 PM
If the last 50 years had actually taken up 10 years then they would need to have 120 hour days.
My work day feels that long sometimes.If you want to put that much thought into it, there's endless possibilities. Our year is only as long as it is because of our distance from the sun. Perhaps the Marvel sun is much further from Earth and just emits a ton more light and heat. Then they have 24 hour days, just a lot of them. Someone needs to publish a definitive guide of Marvel time. Except not, because sticking to it would be their demise. Imagine the fanboys of a world like that. "THEY CAN'T CELEBRATE NEW YEARS, THERE HASN'T BEEN CLOSE TO THAT MANY DAYS PAST!".
that's not possible. The Marvel U exists on earth. That's why our president is their president.
I'm just going to lock myself in the bathroom and cry now.
kahunablair
11-01-2007, 10:23 PM
I don't normally put much thought into stuff like this.
Think about it, how many issues of a Bendis book does it take to show a day of a Characters time? He takes 2 years to show a week of "comic time".
So a rotating 10 years doesn't really seem that far fetched.
diabhol
11-02-2007, 05:40 AM
Speaking of continuity, everyone here is clear that Astonishing X-Men has been happening over, like, a single week, right?
labor_days
11-02-2007, 05:42 AM
Shh. I don't know if Cyclops died or not. I am in suspense.
(p.s i'm joking.)
drwally
11-02-2007, 05:59 AM
that's not possible. The Marvel U exists on earth. That's why our president is their president.
I'm just going to lock myself in the bathroom and cry now.
I have no idea why, but for some reason this comment struck me as the funniest I've read in months...I guess I'm just a sucker for good gallows humor...Fred, as always, you rock!:p
BTW, is Cyclops dead yet? I hear it takes only seconds to die in space...oh, sorry, that's Real World Time....maybe his life is flashing before his eyes at the moment - this Jean Grey, That Jean Grey, this funeral for Prof. X, the other funeral for Prof. X, the funerals for Jean this time and that time...
(Ok, I'll stop now...)