New Joss Show: Dollhouse

[applie]

http://www.eonline.com/gossip/kristin/detail/index.jsp?uuid=972f7d73-e0a2-43ea-abad-0abf6afba1f3

Aside from being written/created by Joss it's also gonna star/be produced by Eliza Dushku. According to the article Tim Minear (co-creator of Firefly) is also on board, and Eliza mentions Buffy writers so we may see some the likes of Jane Espenson, Drew Goddard or Steve deKnight writing for the show. (I'd also love to see Brian K. Vaughan writing for the show after his work on the Buffy comics, and the fact they've also collaborated on Runaways)

Anyway, the concept sounds pretty good, kind of like Alias meets Hostel: a bunch of 'dolls' who can be given whatever personality the customer wants and then do whatever the customer wants, so long as it doesn't harm the doll.
It's also easy to see how the Buffy MOTW (or DOTW) is gonna pan out as well as a season/series-long mystery into Echo's character.
But best of all, Joss is back on TV! It'll be good to hear his unique dialogue and the comradery he always builds between his characters again. (Even though we'll probably have to wait til next Fall for it to happen, cos of the Writer's strike)

[dstrack007]

I agree... the show looks like it could be great. Really looking forward to checking it out.

[diane]

My only issue is the network that it is on, FOX. They have killed so many good shows and screwed things up royally. It makes me nervous.

I don't know if my poor heart could have the joy of Joss returned to it to then have it ripped away again by the evil execs at FOX.

Granted, if it is really good, I might have my Halloween costume idea for next year all ready.

[darthender]

Yeah, I'm kinda surprised Joss would do another show for FOX.

[wideawakewesley]

I almost kinda hope it's crap, just because Joss Whedon gets far too much hero worship.

[irishpunk]

I like how in the interview with Whedon he says it was an organic process in creating the show and that it all happened over a lunch break.
Probably won't be seeing this anytime soon though what with the strikes in Hollywood going to happen and all....

[dutch]

I'm a huge fan of Joss' work. I loved Buffy, Angel, Firefly, and I am a great fan of his contributions to Marvel Comics. Now that i've said that, why Fox Joss, why..

I'm really excited about this but I have the feeling that its going to fail because of Fox's money grubbing incompetence.

[wideawakewesley]

The cast list for Dollhouse is looking fantastic!

Former Angel actress Amy Acker will reunite with Joss Whedon on his upcoming project Dollhouse.

Whedon announced Acker's involvement on his website Whedonesque: "I'm shocked that any part of our casting process hasn't been leaked somehow. And though I'm a fan of secrets... Dr. Claire Saunders will be played by... Amy Acker."

The drama is about a group of men and women, known as dolls, who are charged with carrying out a series of "assignments". They can be imprinted with different memories, skills, languages and abilities appropriate to each task.

Acker joins fellow Angel luminary Eliza Dushku in the cast, in addition to Olivia Williams, Harry Lennix, Miracle Laurie and Tahmoh Penikett.

Buffy creator Whedon also hailed the calibre of the show's cast: "All in all, pound for pound, soup to nuts, man vs beast, it's a pretty amazing ensemble. I'm not sure how I landed this troupe, but rest assured I'm gonna write bestest good word for talkacting to them yes! They're in good hands."

Fox is planning a seven-episode season of the show for September.

[giggleloop]

Wicked awesome, can't wait!

[brodel]

I was really excited reading the article till I saw fox was involved. Now I don't even want to see it since it will just get canceled as soon as I get into it.

[wideawakewesley]

I was really excited reading the article till I saw fox was involved. Now I don't even want to see it since it will just get canceled as soon as I get into it.

Dude, it's seven episodes, surely they can't can it before then...can they

;)

[bobwise]

Wow, I can't believe I wasn't already aware of this story. Another Whedon show? Awesome!

But Fox? Didn't you learn your lesson, Joss?

[brodel]

Dude, it's seven episodes, surely they can't can it before then...can they

;)

I believe they canceled "Drive" less than two weeks (4 episodes) in. Not a Joss show, but it had Tim Minear and Nathan Fillion..

[d4rks1de]

Yea I'm super excited. Should be great!

[arcticfox]

I almost kinda hope it's crap, just because Joss Whedon gets far too much hero worship.

Firefly, nuff said.

[wideawakewesley]

And my passion for Eliza is reignited once again...

http://origin.aintitcool.com/images2007/dollhouse.jpg

And here's a trailer:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=GqkPGZpkBws

[neverendingwhitelights]

Looks like a great show. I will thoroughly enjoy however many episodes of it FOX decides to air before they cancel it prematurely.

[darknessgp]

Looks really good, I seriously hope another network sees it and takes it away from Fox. Joss deserves to be on real networks that won't put his show in bad time spots and then cancel them because they aren't pulling prime time numbers. Honestly, I don't know why Joss isn't making his shows for SciFi, seems like that is the best place for them.

[ghostbeezy]

Fox has a golden opportunity. Greys anatomy lowest viewing in a while. American gladiators, lowest viewing in a while.

Scrubs "ended" though there is rumors of another 18 episodes being shot. So.. Fox has a chance to do us all right. I was an occasional buffy fan. Id' watch it if i caught it, but if not i wasn't hurt.

It looks interesting though. very.. Minority report/johnny nemonic... hostel... i dunno. we'll see.

[poltah]

To me, it's a good thing that it's on Fox. Because no-way Whedone would've made another show on Fox without having a good deal. So I say great, and I hear the pilot script is getting a lot of praise in Hollywood.

I really don't like Dushku though, and that's the one thing that keeps me from getting 100% on board with this.

[valenzetti]

I think this looks better than Fringe.

[poltah]

Trailer is up on dollverse.com and of course youtube.com

Looks pretty cool actually.

[hermit-homeboy]

Don't know if anybody posted this yet but here's a preview:

http://tv.ign.com/dor/objects/14215797/dollhouse/videos/upfronts_dollhouse_preview_1200.html

Personally, I'm a little more interested than I was before.


Thoughts?

[bcool]

gahhhh.... this could definitely be good, but I just really want more firefly :(

[wideawakewesley]

We received an e-mail from our friend Liz Gannes at NewTeeVee and it made me smile so much I had to run home and blog about it. Liz forwarded a link from Wired’s “Underwire” blog with the following headline:

Dollhouse Fans Campaign To Save Show — Before 2009 Airdate

Yep, some Josh Whedon faithful are staging a preemptive strike, fearing the worst and that the show will be cancelled like Firefly. An enterprising Canadian, Nathan, the administrator of dollhouseforums.com is launching the campaign. From a post on his site:

“After seeing some of my favorite television shows get cancelled in the past — as well as the “save this show” campaigns that followed — I had the idea that a fan campaign BEFORE the show begins may be the best thing to do. Maybe not such a negative campaign directed towards saving it from getting cancelled, but something that will get fans motivated to promote Dollhouse to friends/family/coworkers before it airs is smarter than doing it once it’s in danger! If we plan now, we may be able to have several ideas planned by the premiere to make people watch and make advertisers actually want the show on the air.”

While I do applaud the initiative, I’m inclined to agree with a few of the comments left on Nathan’s site that it may be a double-edged sword. One thing doing TVbytheNumbers has taught me is that fans are indeed leery of investing time in shows they fear will be cancelled, Highlighting the risk could potentially work against the show.

But it still brought a smile to my face.

Source: TVbythenumbers.com

Seriously?

Wes

[burkhartmj]

Seriously?

Wes

Everyone is already aware of the heightened chances of it being canceled because FOX is run by douchebags, so I'd say that wasn't a valid point. I'm glad someone is doing this, maybe actually keep whedon on air for more than a sporadic out-of-order season

[sisterchristian]

I really don't like Dushku though, and that's the one thing that keeps me from getting 100% on board with this.

Agreed, but after seeing the trailer it looks really interesting so... enthused again. :)

[rokov]

I would be very enthused if Eliza Dushku wasn't involved, I just don't think that she's a strong enough actor to play the lead in a series. Having said that, it's a Joss show, so I have to watch it.

[wideawakewesley]

Dollhouse's Whedon OK With Fox

Joss Whedon, creator of Fox's upcoming midseason SF series Dollhouse, told SCI FI Wire that he's OK returning to the TV network that canceled his beloved Firefly after mishandling it.

"These are different people," Whedon said in an interview in Santa Monica, Calif., on July 14, part of the Television Critics Association summer press tour. "They didn't do to me what was done to Firefly."

Whedon's last experience with the network was with Firefly, which debuted in the fall of 2002. Fox aired the show's episodes out of Whedon's original order and preempted them for sporting events before canceling the series after airing 11 of the 14 produced segments.

But management at the network has changed since then, and former NBC executive Kevin Reilly is now president of entertainment. "Joss was a gift," Reilly told reporters earlier in the day. "The only reason Joss wasn't on my list is because I thought there was no way he was coming back."

But Whedon--who left TV to direct feature films (Serenity) and write comic books--came back to Fox with Dollhouse, a high-concept series starring Whedon's former Buffy the Vampire Slayer co-star Eliza Dushku.

"The understanding that I reached was with myself," Whedon explained about his change of heart. "That I had to be realistic about what the network expected of me and about what the chances for the show would be. Like, I fell in love with Firefly in a very blind and adolescent way. And I tried to meet the network halfway. But at the same time, you know, it was agony. Everything was agony for me. ... And now I come at it with a little distance. Not artistic distance. But just, you know, the grown-up attitude of, you go through certain steps. You do your best. You work with them. And you pick the people you're working with. You look for sanity and you look for intelligence. So far, I have found a great deal of both in the executives at Fox. If I had gone there and pitched to them, and they had not understood what I was telling them, I think I would have known."

Dollhouse is slated to debut in early 2009. Fox has ordered 13 episodes of the SF drama, about an organization whose members have different personalities implanted to go on secret missions, then have those personalities wiped clean

Nice to see Joss is a good businessman and not someone daft enough to bear grudges.

Wes

[bobwise]

Nice to see Joss is a good businessman and not someone daft enough to bear grudges.

Wes

I agree. I think Fox is a really great place for Joss' style, he was just stuck with some incompetent people in the past.

Though let it not be forgotten that Fox is responsible for canceling Firefly after only 1 season and Arrested Development after 3. That's going to be floating around in the back of my mind whenever I think about Fox. Hopefully this new team Joss is with will handle things differently.

[aerodash84]

So found this article on filming of the show recently stopped. Figured I'd put this in here before a new thread was created.

http://tv.ign.com/articles/909/909394p1.html

Sounds a little worrisome about the pilots being confusing, but I'm sure Joss can pull it off. I know if the pilot was hard to pull off a lot of people probably wouldn't return to it.

[rokov]

Judging from the networks concerns about the show, I have a feeling that this is going to be Firefly all over again.

[Bret]

From what I read, FOX is actually listening to Joss when he suggested he reshoot the pilot and such. I think they may have learned a little from firefly. But I honestly just cant vibe with this concept as much as I did with firefly. Hopefully when I watch it I will...But I really just want firefly back :(

[esophagus]

Maybe its just wishful thinking, but I think Fox is trying to improve on the bad rep they got from Firefly.

[rokov]

Maybe they are trying to avoid another Firefly incident, but it sounds to me like they're doing it by having him rewrite (read, dumb down) the episodes.

[aerodash84]

Maybe they are trying to avoid another Firefly incident, but it sounds to me like they're doing it by having him rewrite (read, dumb down) the episodes.

To me it even sounded like he wasn't happy with what they had so far. So I'm really not sure what to think. This just sounds like it may be a really hard concept to sell to a wide audience. FireFly probably would've done better if they aired the original pilot, kept a firm time slot, and was advertised better. I think Fox is learning from a lot of past mistakes, but this could be a risky show.

[esophagus]

Yeah, even as a die hard Whedon fan I'm skeptical.

[rokov]

To me it even sounded like he wasn't happy with what they had so far. So I'm really not sure what to think. This just sounds like it may be a really hard concept to sell to a wide audience. FireFly probably would've done better if they aired the original pilot, kept a firm time slot, and was advertised better. I think Fox is learning from a lot of past mistakes, but this could be a risky show.

I seriously doubt that Joss would rewrite something to make it easier to follow. One of the trademarks of his work is that he always drops you into a complicated (and often misleading) situation and expects you to keep up. He's one of the very few people in Hollywood who assumes that the audience has a modicum of intelligence.

[aerodash84]

I seriously doubt that Joss would rewrite something to make it easier to follow. One of the trademarks of his work is that he always drops you into a complicated (and often misleading) situation and expects you to keep up. He's one of the very few people in Hollywood who assumes that the audience has a modicum of intelligence.

I'm well aware of that but typically he makes it on a level that anyone can follow. He is pretty much an illusionist. He has you following along with his one hand, while the other one is getting the trick ready to show. However, he isn't the type of guy to feed you a bunch of stuff then slap you in the face with a 3rd hand out of nowhere. So I'm sure he's just trying to get everything the way he'd want it. No new show can be on a level that no one new to a person's work can't get into it. That would just be bad television.

Actually, I want to go back and rewatch Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Apparently, the idea of Dawn was being laid into the show for awhile before she actually appeared.

[esophagus]

I seriously doubt that Joss would rewrite something to make it easier to follow. One of the trademarks of his work is that he always drops you into a complicated (and often misleading) situation and expects you to keep up. He's one of the very few people in Hollywood who assumes that the audience has a modicum of intelligence.He DID rewrite the show on his own. That isn't up for interpretation. What this article is saying is that Fox aren't happy with either the changes or the original.

[rokov]

Actually, I want to go back and rewatch Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Apparently, the idea of Dawn was being laid into the show for awhile before she actually appeared.

There are a few hints layered in, but they're pretty hard to find unless you're looking for them. The most obvious are in the dream episode at the end of season 4 in Buffy's dream while she and Faith are making the bed.

[rokov]

He DID rewrite the show on his own. That isn't up for interpretation. What this article is saying is that Fox aren't happy with either the changes or the original.

Ghosh was told by the Fox rep, "We have every confidence that [the extra time] will allow Joss to make the show the best it can possibly be. It's very rare that you have a head writer who is also directing two episodes in a row. But we are happy that Joss is directing, because this is his vision."

Maybe I'm a conspiracy theorist, but this quote gives me the distinct impression that Fox strongly encouraged him to make the changes in the first place.

[esophagus]

Article from Joss:

Rutherford D. Actualperson: Joss. You are a legend in the industry, and your forehead is a normal size proportionate to your face. Tell me about the idea behind doing a new first episode. Didn’t you already shoot one?

Joss: Yes, Ruhthie, I did. And it was grand, simply grand.

R.D.A: Then why shoot another? Also, your teeth are whitish.

Joss: I said it was grand, I didn’t say it was comprehensible. I showed some scenes to David Lynch and he’s all, “whuh?” Bad sign. But I kid.

The fact is, I’m very proud of the ep we shot and the series is making me crazy with the excitement. But I tend to come at things sideways, and there were a few clarity issues for some viewers. There were also some slight issues with tone – I was in a dark, noir kind of place (where, as many of you know, I make my home), and didn’t bring the visceral pop the network had expected from the script. The network was cool about it, but not sure how to come out of the gate with the ep.

R.D.A.: So they made you do another. It’s Firefly all over again! Run! For the love of God, HE’S CALLING FROM THE HOUSE!!!

Joss: Wow. Good panic.

R.D.A.: I try. But I am genuinely concerned. Also your smooth skin and elegant hands are making me bi-curious.

Joss: Well, the idea to do a new first episode wasn’t the network’s. It was mine. I understood their consternation, and saw the gap between my style and their expectations, and I suggested I shoot a new ep and make the one I’d shot the second. It isn’t going to be buried, like the pilot of Firefly. It’s simply coming after another, slightly cleaner ep. And because unlike Firefly, it isn’t a two hour epic which introduces everyone to each other, the onus isn’t on the new ep to explain a million things.

The fact is, Fox ordered the series before we shot a frame and then, after the strike, I had literally two months to write and prep the whole thing. Which means simply that the network has to figure out what they might want to tweak AFTER it was shot, unlike a pilot. Buffy didn’t make the fall sched, Angel got shut down when they saw the second ep outline… it’s birth pangs. The network truly gets the premise (this is a whole new crew, as you know), loves the cast, is excited about the show – but they’re also specific about how they want to bring people to the show and I not only respect that, I kinda have to slap my forehead that I didn’t tailor my tone and structure to the network’s needs, since that’s something I pride myself on.

MORE IN LINK (http://whedonesque.com/comments/17005)

[rokov]

Ahh ok, so Joss is selling out. Oh well, it happens to the best of them. :rolleyes:

[esophagus]

Meh. All that happened was he made the first episode into the second. I've got no problem with that.

[kilroyperrywinkle]

I think this show may suck...

[Bret]

just saw the episode of angel with dushku in it and she isn't a great actress. Firefly had some genuinely great actors in it. I dont see this show being great because the lead actress is pretty mediocre. O well its by Joss so I will give it a chance.

[rokov]

just saw the episode of angel with dushku in it and she isn't a great actress. Firefly had some genuinely great actors in it. I dont see this show being great because the lead actress is pretty mediocre. O well its by Joss so I will give it a chance.

That's my biggest concern too. Joss is a great writer and director, but that can't change the fact that the lead can't act her way out of a paper bag.

[damnedeyez]

That's my biggest concern too. Joss is a great writer and director, but that can't change the fact that the lead can't act her way out of a paper bag.

Well, if the premise involves lack of personality...

[esophagus]

Well, if the premise involves lack of personality...
This role actually requires a much wider range and higher skill set than most roles would.

[damnedeyez]

This role actually requires a much wider range and higher skill set than most roles would.

But that doesn't work as a joke/humour.

[Bret]

This role actually requires a much wider range and higher skill set than most roles would.

exactly. She is going to be playing different women really...same physical person but personality changes occur from the plot details I have read. And I see her being the same person everytime just in a different outfit. Did Joss just cast her because she was in buffy and angel?? Dunno..Hopefully it will be ok.

[ryudo]

...Joss Whedon gets far too much hero worship.
I agree.

IMO
Firefly/Serenity is the only thing he has done IMO that is great.
Everything else..meh

[darksydeavenger]

I've been meh on Joss' other stuff outside of Firefly/Serenity/Dr. Horrible, so I have my doubts going in to this show. Still, it's Joss and am interested in the concept.

[esophagus]

I haven't seen anything by Joss that I didn't like, but I don't think that makes him invincible. I get the feeling I won't like this.

[poltah]

No matter if you like Buffy or not, it's hard not to acknowledge that the series had part in revolutionizing the TV medium.

Hence a lot of the hero worship.

[rokov]

No matter if you like Buffy or not, it's hard not to acknowledge that the series had part in revolutionizing the TV medium.

Hence a lot of the hero worship.

Not to mention that Buffy was hitting it's stride around the same time that Lucas let us down (turned on us) with the prequels and so a lot of us picked Joss to fill the void.

[Bret]

Not to mention that Buffy was hitting it's stride around the same time that Lucas let us down (turned on us) with the prequels and so a lot of us picked Joss to fill the void.

I watched Firefly first, but recently watched the first season of Angel. Its easy to see that Joss did his best work to date with firefly and serenity. Also the actors were in a completely different league. Boreanez is a good actor, but Sarah Michelle Gellar cant act really at all. I hope Dushku can bring her game up to let the material breath. The guy from BSG is a one dimensional actor but he will do fine I am guessing. We will see when it starts airing. For Joss's sake I hope it stays alive for at least a full season.

[kilroyperrywinkle]

Gellar can't act!

Yes!

Thank you god for saying that!

I loooooved buffy, and even found a special shelf in my soul for Angel... but... my god she's terrible... sooooo... bad... the plastic surgery.... sooo... bad....


/knocks softly in the corner.

[ryudo]

No matter if you like Buffy or not, it's hard not to acknowledge that the series had part in revolutionizing the TV medium.

Hence a lot of the hero worship.
Yes in making everything on TV from pretty rich white kids with problems to pretty rich white kids with problems dealing vampires and crap.
Then came all the copy cat pretty rich white kids with problems and paranormal junk.

As Bret said Firefly was so different than anything on TV.
(Unless you watch Anime and it was similar to Outlaw star.)

[dolson]

So this is debuting on Friday, Feb. 13th.. I might check it out, though I've only seen Serenity, and I hated Buffy. I tried to watch Angel, and didn't like that either.

[satori]

So this is debuting on Friday, Feb. 13th.. I might check it out, though I've only seen Serenity, and I hated Buffy. I tried to watch Angel, and didn't like that either.

dude, thanks! I totally forgot about setting up the PVR for this. I'm doing this now. :D

[wideawakewesley]

Check out the new promo for DollHouse and Sarah Connor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhpmKSMphfw

Wes

[mrpopular]

going for the Grindhouse feel

I don't know if i was a big fan of the trailer, but i'll be checking the show for shizzle

[damnedeyez]

Check out the new promo for DollHouse and Sarah Connor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhpmKSMphfw

Wes

You know, I've seen the trailer from the link and on TV...I'm having trouble getting interested in Dollhouse. (I like the premise, but the trailer doesn't make Dushku look very convincing. I can't imagine they'd do that on purpose.)

[terryscss]

I'm very excited for Dollhouse, and thanks for the trailer Wes, I thought it was awesome! I'm a ginormous Joss fanboy and Eliza Dushku may be my favorite early 2000s teen movie actress. If all goes as planned, this will be my favorite show of the year! [fingers crossed]

[esophagus]

I'm kind of expecting this to be Joss' worst work yet. It has nothing to do with networks or anything like that the premise just doesn't sound that great. Let's hope I'm pleasantly surprised! I've loved everything he has done in the past.

[terryscss]

So here we are, one night away, how're ya' feeling? Excited? Scared? Indifferent? I'm personally really excited!

[wideawakewesley]

So here we are, one night away, how're ya' feeling? Excited? Scared? Indifferent? I'm personally really excited!

Can't wait. Love Eliza and have enjoyed everything Joss has done to date, so I'll be giving this a whole season to find it's feet.

Wes

[damnedeyez]

I still cringe at the TV spots (and the only Whedon stuff I liked was Firefly and Dr. Horrible), but it's setup on the TiVo. We'll see.

[neverendingwhitelights]

Well, if it's on Friday night that can't be a good sign, that's where a lot of shows go to die.

[rsk_taker]

I'm kinda excited to see it only because it is Whedon's baby and Tahmoh Penikett is in it. But I've not been impressed the slightest bit from the promotional materials so far.

[dolson]

One thing to keep in mind, even if the pilot isn't great, the show itself may get better a few episodes in. At least, for me, I find most shows don't hook me immediately.

[skin87]

Firefly and Dr. Horrible remain the only products of Joss I enjoy.

[truebullfan]

The show doesnt look very good. Got a 59 on metacritic.com http://www.metacritic.com/tv/shows/dollhouse

I finished up watching firefly on hulu a couple of weeks ago and I have to says its a very fun show to watch. Nathan Fillion was terrific on it. Not the greatest show ever like those fools on digg.com like to say. But this show stars the chick from "true lies" i? come on!

[matsie]

The show doesnt look very good. Got a 59 on metacritic.com http://www.metacritic.com/tv/shows/dollhouse

I finished up watching firefly on hulu a couple of weeks ago and I have to says its a very fun show to watch. Nathan Fillion was terrific on it. Not the greatest show ever like those fools on digg.com like to say. But this show stars the chick from "true lies" i? come on!

Considering she was also the star of her own moderately successful television show as well as a major character in Buffy and Angel, I think she's a little more relevant than her small role in True Lies 15 years ago.

[matsie]

One thing to keep in mind, even if the pilot isn't great, the show itself may get better a few episodes in. At least, for me, I find most shows don't hook me immediately.

I agree. I anticipated FOX making the pilot teh suck.

I hope it improves with time, but it didn't seem remotely interesting to me from the pilot.

[dexter]

Wow just watched it and i have to say it sucked, i wont be watching it again I'm sorry but if they cannot make a pilot episode interesting which is the most important episode to get people hooked then they don't deserve my time to watch more episodes.

[joeyrock]

Weak. Just Weak.

Dushku can't act, and it's needs a seriously good actor to be able to believably inhabit a completely new character in an instant. Dushku has trouble doing "vacant" Echo... so turning on a dime and doing it week in and week out isn't even in her ball park.

Plus the premise for this show is like a plot for an episode of Knightrider. How did Josh think he could stretch that out for a season is beyond me.

I'll keep watching out of curiousity and loyalty. But it's not looking good so far. There isn't a single character/actor I give a dam about.

[rokov]

That wasn't good, but as I'm a raving Joss fanboy I'll have to keep watching. The first season of Buffy kinda sucked too and, if I remember correctly, Fox made Joss reshoot the pilot, so I'm still holding out hope. Incidentally, I had to watch a couple of scenes twice before I recognized Amy Acker (Fred from Angel) as the doctor with the scarred face.

[terryscss]

I actually really liked it, of course I may have liked the potential more then the episode, but I'm a fanboy, I thought it was fun. I thought Eliza was really good, I'm really excited to see her play a different character every week. I'm ready for next week.

[rokov]

I think I've come up with a storyline that could fix the show's one fundamental flaw ...
During an engagement, Echo gets severely injured, requiring immediate and drastic reconstructive surgery and when it's over she looks exactly like Morena Baccarin (or anyone else in Joss' stable who can act). LOL :p

[quantumtheory]

I'm definitely on board with this show. Whedon kind of throws you into you an already ongoing plot, but I like it. It wasn't amazing, I'm not hooked, but I like it. I think it can only get better from here. Average pilot, but I think it has potential.

[neverendingwhitelights]

Pilots as a rule are generally weak anyway, as they have the burden of setting up so much in such a limited time. Let's just hope it gets the time it needs to get into it's groove.

[masherscf]

Whedon is the master of long story arcs. It's unrealistic to expect the kickasserie to start from episode 1. Of course, "Firefly" did. But, that was an exceptional program.

[joeyrock]

I'm definitely on board with this show. Whedon kind of throws you into you an already ongoing plot, but I like it. It wasn't amazing, I'm not hooked, but I like it. I think it can only get better from here. Average pilot, but I think it has potential.

Nope. Whedon didn't throw you into an ongoing plot. Fox did. They threw out the actual pilot at Josh's behest, this first one was episode 2. That's why the beginning was a mess. Also next week is episode 4.

[rich3327]

I like Joss, and the idea sounds interesting, but I cannot stand Eliza Dushku (I think she is a terrible actress). This alone will keep me from watching the show. I hope that Joss wakes up and stops putting her in his shows... at least for my (and my wife's) sake. I want to see more Dr. Horrible

[starthorn]

just watched it this morning (DVR). I thought the premise sounded boring when I first heard about it but It wasn't bad.

As someone else said the first season of Buffy was bad and maybe this will get better.

PS My 12 year old self wouldn't believe that the future me said the first season of buffy sucked. The wonders of DVD

[cybersuchus]

Saw it, and really enjoyed it. Seeing a more fleshed out version of the premise really helped sell it to me. I'm very curious to see how they keep the undercurrent story alive in a series based on complete character revamps, each episode.

What's with all the Dushku haters? I find her to be a fine actress. She was a big win on Buffy and Angel. She might not have the capacity to do that catatonic "well of tears" face that Sarah Michelle Gellar can apparently turn on at will, but she's easily on par with Alyson Hannigan, Amy Acker, Morena Baccarin, or any other Whedon alum.

You want bad actresses, why not look to the chick from Fringe. She has a face that seems to only know the expression: bitch (admittedly it might be hard to tell in a show where Joshua Jackson's presence is actually the best thing). Supernatural is also host to a few "stinker" actresses; which is to say nothing of full on televised atrocities like Lipstick Jungle.


Nope. Whedon didn't throw you into an ongoing plot. Fox did. They threw out the actual pilot at Josh's behest, this first one was episode 2. That's why the beginning was a mess. Also next week is episode 4.
Right then. Time to start sending little dolls in droves to the Fox Network.

[murphy1d]

I just caught it on Hulu and I enjoyed it. The idea seems like it can open up (although my first impression was "high-tech prostitutes??").

Plus, I agree that the pilot often is the worst because there's too much to introduce. So you either make it super fast so you get everything in, or you just hope your fans stick around long enough to add more to the plot.

I will definitely be watching, and I'm not a Jossfanboy. Never watched Angel, Buffy or Firefly (but I do own Serenity).

[quantumtheory]

Nope. Whedon didn't throw you into an ongoing plot. Fox did. They threw out the actual pilot at Josh's behest, this first one was episode 2. That's why the beginning was a mess. Also next week is episode 4.

hmm, didn't know that. FOX can suck a big one if this show ends up tanking because they can't let the actual creator and writer of the show do what he does best.

[wakuseibaka]

I actually really liked it. But thaaaat's just me...

[kilroyperrywinkle]

I liked it.

I'm a tough critic when it comes to TV, its gotta be good like good. This wasn't awesome, or great, but I think I could get into it. If they can start fleshing out the secondary characters a bit more I'd move it up a notch. But it was a fine show, and by TV standards it can only go up.

I'm no fanboy either. Buffy was hit or miss, Angel too drawn out and Firefly the genius series that I'm sure we'd be sick of by now if it was still on. (BSG should of be 2 seasons, I'm betting I'd feel the same way about Firefly. Genius runs out and crappy moves in after a bit of time on air.)

I think Joss has a talent for world making, so if he's surrounded himself with writers that can write decent characters and stay away from his Joss-ism way of making characters self destruct for no reason except that of writer's block, the show should be fun.

Its a shame its on fox though...

(I hated Dr. Horrible.)

[crabcakes]

Didn't watch it.

Do I think it looks good?
No.

Will I watch it on hulu?
Most likely.

Why?
Eliza Dushku is hot.

[terryscss]

I'm really glad there's more people that liked this show. I always feel like there's something wrong with me when the consensus around something I dig is that it sucked.

[rsk_taker]

I found it very ordinary and unimpressive but as Dolson says, you gotta give a show a few eps to mark its territory. I did that with Fringe and I really dig that show now.

This particular show, has no story.

Lost, BSG, Fringe, Dexter all have an overall story or goal/season the show is heading towards.

The only thing of that sort the Dollhouse pilot presented was Tahmoh Pinikett's investigation into Dollhouse...that's it. The rest of it involves the "Dolls" on random Engagements. That's not enough to bring me back for more.

However at the end of the episode we were presented with that document labelled "Alpha" so that could mean something big.

Another big FAIL was the fact the show presented absolutely no cool or favourable characters which Whedon is so famous for doing. I mean the lead is a mindless girl who the viewers are mixed-feelings with from the beginning.

[neverendingwhitelights]

I mean the lead is a mindless girl who the viewers are mixed-feelings with from the beginning.

I have the distinct feeling that's going to change very quickly, i.e., her remembering her earlier life, things from previous engagements, putting pieces together about who she is, what she's really for, who she works for, what they really do, etc.

[joedubbs]

So I have to admit I had never 'heard' of Joss Whedon. I've never seen an episode of Buffy, or Firefly. But so much was made of this show here in the forums and on the web in general made me check it out and I have to say I enjoyed it. For some reason it reminded me of that show with Jessica Alba back in the day but I actually found myself interested in Dollhouse.

So I'll keep watching.

And I just looked up Whedon on IMDB after watching the show and saw that he wrote the screenplay to Toy Story. Brilliant.

[quence]

I really liked it! The first episode didn't completely hook me, didn't make me fall in love with the show, but honestly, what pilot has ever done that? The premise is great, and I was very entertained. I have faith that Joss will keep me interested.

[bcool]

It's not bad, it's just missing the sense of humor that I've enjoyed in every other thing written by Joss Whedon.

[joeyrock]

Good news everyone!
Fox/Whedon have re-shot the second episode, re-jiggered the show again. Now it's badass.. check out the teaser for this week.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5kCAQdv4Qg&feature=related

[joedubbs]

Apparently only 4.7 million people tuned in for the premiere of Dollhouse, but that is a million more than The Sarah Connor Chronicles which led in to Dollhouse.

[damnedeyez]

Apparently only 4.7 million people tuned in for the premiere of Dollhouse, but that is a million more than The Sarah Connor Chronicles which led in to Dollhouse.

Not surprising...I keep thinking I should drop all of the Fox shows I watch, simply because they move the times they air multiple times during the year to accommodate American Idol, etc.

[wideawakewesley]

Have to say I quite enjoyed the 1st ep too. It didn't blow me away, but it was solid and intriguing, sowing seeds for the rest of the season well.

Wes

[wideawakewesley]

Well episode two was definitely a step up from the first and I really like where this show is heading. Not sure about the characters yet, they're lacking that likeability factor at the moment and that could be key to keeping folks watching.

Wes

[cole-w]

I'm quite liking it so far, I really like how every week it seems is going to be a completely different genre within the genre of the show,and that has the potential to really keep the show fresh.


Also, it was cool that they had the middle-man guy as a guest star last week, at least it was cool to me, being a fan of that show.

[serenity]

I agree that episode 2 was MUCH better but I am hoping it will get better still. It still isn't "great" to me, only "pretty good".

[damnedeyez]

I still haven't watched any of the episodes yet (though, they are on my TiVo)...I just can't seem to want to. I'll keep it around, maybe one of these days I'll be up to it.

[masherscf]

IMO, episode 1.03 is full of win.

[cybersuchus]

"Shoulder to the wheel."

Loved it; especially the the hint drop at the end of the episode.

Also, I have come to the conclusion that all super-rich people are secretly a**holes.

[satori]

episode 3 is the weakest so far imho, but it's still much better than the early Buffy shows. I really like Sierra's character and the actress that plays her. Lots of good twists here and I'm beginning to wonder if Whedon might be able to approach JJ Abrams with plot twists if he's set it up properly.

[gglynn00]

I'm beginning to wonder if Whedon might be able to approach JJ Abrams with plot twists if he's set it up properly.

You know, when I saw the plot/premise for this show, I thought Whedon was doing the JJ thing. Overall, I'm glad that Hollywood is accepting this "trend" and producing shows this way. To me, it makes for a lot better tv to have to be actively engaged while viewing instead of the more popular "crime serials" that are out there.

[masherscf]

Whedon is the master of the slow reveal. This was part of the enigma of "Firefly." But, for that show the threads of awesome and unrealized potential are much more obvious. For "Dollhouse" you can see the threads that Whedon will use to weave the awesome but only the threads.

My only fear is that internet fanboy haters more used to the instant grasp of first season "Heros" and "Lost" cliffhangers aren't patient enough to wait for the slow build or they just plain have something more interesting to do on Friday nights. Indeed, "Dollhouse" will get canceled due to poor ratings, or worse, external forces will force Whedon to change the show.

The final product may be a win or fail, but it's clear the "Dollhouse" hasn't reached that final point.

If anything else, Joss continues to have an eye for pulchritude and the people are certainly easy to look at. And, I'll watch just about anything with Amy Acker in it.

[murphy1d]

Joss continues to have an eye for pulchritude

LOL, pulchritude. It's been a while since I had to look up a word, thanks for that one. I like it!

[k4ng]

When the concept for Dollhouse first hit the interwebs, I was really excited. I'm such a sucker for brainwashing/people for hire stories. The pilot didn't hook me but I was fine with that. I definitely agree that Joss is all about the slow reveal and I'm willing to stick with it. The second episode was so The Most Dangerous Game but I got into it and enjoyed it. For the third episode, the parallel between Reina's life and Echo's life was way too obvious and "omg isn't this deep?!" for my taste.

I think Eliza Dushku isn't a horrible actress but she doesn't have the chops to pull off a different character every week. It's all very Jessica Alba in Dark Angel for me.

I love the new character Sierra and I really hope they focus more on the other actives.




SPOILER ALERT

The little head shake at the end of ep 3... Does this mean that Echo is remembering things and she and Sierra secretly talked and will continue to?

[cybersuchus]

My only fear is that internet fanboy haters more used to the instant grasp of first season "Heros" and "Lost" cliffhangers aren't patient enough to wait for the slow build or they just plain have something more interesting to do on Friday nights. Indeed, "Dollhouse" will get canceled due to poor ratings, or worse, external forces will force Whedon to change the show.


This is probably wishful thinking on my part, but I'd like to think that the execs at Fox have learned by now just how vocal and loyal Whedon fans can be (from getting a movie from one season of Firefly, to the runaway hit of Dr. Horrible). Even if the show doesn't bring in the numbers that Fox wants, they can at least think of how the audience will grow over time like they did with Buffy and Angel (not that foresight has ever been a network exec's strong suit).

Then again, with so many Whedon fans out there now, I'd imagine the initial audience ought to be pretty big.


And, I'll watch just about anything with Amy Acker in it.


Yeah, no amount of scarring is going to hide that beauty. It would have been nice if she went with more of an Illyria voice for this outing instead of her "Fred" voice, if just to change it up from most of her roles.


For the third episode, the parallel between Reina's life and Echo's life was way too obvious and "omg isn't this deep?!" for my taste.


Funny, I never really thought of there being any real parallels between them. I just viewed Reina as another spoiled pop star that was too busy whining about her success, to realize how good she had it.

As for the hints of retained memories, I think that's all they are right now. It's kind of neat that, as the audience, we are mostly viewing the show from the perspective of the company, rather than the main character. It should be neat to see how this affects the twists.

[rokov]

Ep. 3 was definitely an improvement, but I'm still not sold ... largely due to the casting. Given Joss' seemingly compulsive (and somewhat tiring) need to completely change things up at least once a season, I'm hoping that he kills off Echo and the cop (Helo) and changes the focus of the show.

[masherscf]

Ep. 3 was definitely an improvement, but I'm still not sold ... largely due to the casting. Given Joss' seemingly compulsive (and somewhat tiring) need to completely change things up at least once a season, I'm hoping that he kills off Echo and the cop (Helo) and changes the focus of the show.

Well, that's not going to happen. Whedon may be the show-runner. But, Dushku is also an executive producer.

[k4ng]

Funny, I never really thought of there being any real parallels between them. I just viewed Reina as another spoiled pop star that was too busy whining about her success, to realize how good she had it.

I was thinking of the whole rant where Reina talks about herself being a creation of the music industry. She can't be herself, she can only be the package that the label is marketing/promoting/selling. Likewise, Echo is manufactured and sold by the company.

I might be reading too much into it though. I tend to do that ;_;

[masherscf]

I might be reading too much into it though. I tend to do that ;_;

No, you're right on. Rianna was saying what Echo would say if she could.

[rokov]

Well, that's not going to happen. Whedon may be the show-runner. But, Dushku is also an executive producer.

I 'm still holding out hope that Dushhu will reassess her life and decide on new career (one in which she's actually competent) . If that was, in fact, her singing in last night's episode, then pop star could be a viable option.

[k4ng]

I 'm still holding out hope that Dushhu will reassess her life and decide on new career (one in which she's actually competent) . If that was, in fact, her singing in last night's episode, then pop star could be a viable option.

Totally agreed on this. I was surprised by the singing. I'm gonna have to do some googling to see if it is her voice.

EDIT: Well what do you know. That IS her singing. http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?category=1&id=62890&type=0

[poltah]

I didn't read all of this thread, but I'm just going to share my thoughts.

Dollhouse is not a good show. Based on the last three episode it's just not. This show has some of the poorest character building I've ever seen.

By episode three Echo's handler is where Giles were in like season 3 of Buffy. There's a father and daughter relationship established with no build up what so ever. It's not believable.
He's worried how Echo is going to sing? I saw some people calling this show slow moving, but I don't think it is. Story wise maybe. But character wise? We got a major development in Echo by episode 2.
She's changed a lot just from episode 1-3, and it's too fast for it to be believable.

The guy who suddenly turned into a hunter of men was so dumb as well. Suddenly he wants to hunt Echo? Why? There's no build up.
The same thing for the singer in the latest episode. All of the sudden she's all like "I wanna die". We got a bit of reasoning afterwards actually, so that was alright. But the whole popsinger wanting out, but to weak to do anything is seen before. And much more well done.

The first episode, and in general, exposition is so clumsy. Every time it's just somebody flat out saying information. Which is like rule number one in the big book of screenwriting "no no's".

I just get such a clumsy, confused, bad structured vibe from this show. It feels like this show doesn't know what it is yet.

I'm still gonna buy every episode through itunes. At least up till episode 6 since Whedon is saying it's a good one.

The third episode is the only one where Echo actually felt like a character, and her story was actually kind of interesting.
In episode 1 and 2 it felt more like all the stuff around Echo was cool. While her story with the kidnapping and the human hunter wasn't interesting at all. Who cares about some random guy going after a girl we don't feel anything for? Make us feel for the character before you put her in danger.

It's really disappointing coming from Whedon. Especially when I think back on Firefly and the brilliant character work that was in that show. How well portrayed they were. How the exposition of the characters was handled. Genius.

And now this.

Oh well, crossing my fingers for episode 6.

[masherscf]

Dollhouse is not a good show. Based on the last three episode it's just not. This show has some of the poorest character building I've ever seen.


The "shitty after only three episodes" is a long list. Some of them are actually quality programs.

[k4ng]

Also, I'm not really getting any of the smart witty humor that Whedon has in all his other works. If I didn't know already, I would never guess that this was a Whedon show.

[poltah]

The "shitty after only three episodes" is a long list. Some of them are actually quality programs.

But some of this stuff is gonna hurt the rest of the show. If we look at the last three episodes, we've already seen the handler become a father figure for Echo. We've already seen him grow very fond of the girl.
Now we can see them grow closer. We won't see the beginning, because it's already been there. In the second episode.

[masherscf]

Also, I'm not really getting any of the smart witty humor that Whedon has in all his other works. If I didn't know already, I would never guess that this was a Whedon show.

Yes, it's humorless. It's a problem.


The last "Firefly" episode "Objects in Space" is probably pound-per-pound the most kick-ass episode every to be in a Joss Whedon product. It was witty, scary and profound. I would not guess that "Dollhouse" was made by the same man.

[poltah]

And the jokes that are there feel like somebody trying to crack a Whedonlike joke, and failing.
I have laughed a couple of times though. Well, chuckled.

I feel like a lot of other shows I didn't like in the beginning felt like "this isn't interesting to me". I didn't like the concept. Or the characters or something.

The thing about Dollhouse is that it just feels like poor craftmanship. It's not well made.

Still giving it a chance though. It's not like I loved Buffy, Angel, Firefly, Serenity and Dr.Horrible.
Oh wait.

[wideawakewesley]

Yes, it's humorless. It's a problem.

I'm not sure it's a problem. It doesn't feel like it's meant to contain bundles of humour. Maybe that's why some people are railing against it, because so far, it doesn't feel like a typical Whedon show in that respect. I like it's serious (and slighty dark) tone though.

I haven't seen ep 3 yet, looking forward to it though.

Wes

[cybersuchus]

I can definitely agree with folks in that this doesn't feel like a typical Joss show. However, one of the things that fans like about Joss is that he takes shows in directions that no one would expect. All the prior shows have had pretty easy to get into premises (though I must admit, space cowboys, took me awhile to finally get behind, as I despise westerns), and then went weird places from there.

With Dollhouse it seems that Joss is starting with the weird places approach, and working from there. It makes the show feel strange and a bit hard to get into, but then so were the first six, or so episodes of Buffy season 5 where Dawn was just thrown in without explanation; forcing the audience to accept it.

Judging from what Whedon and Dusku keep saying about episode 6 (http://www.avclub.com/articles/the-target,24147), I'm expecting things to finally start falling together in a manner similar to season 5 of Buffy.

[maracle]

Does anyone else hate the programmer guy?
I think the "genus with attitude" character this is completely unneeded. Almost like a comic relief character except that hes not very comedic. His age also comes off as completely unnatural for me, much too young.
This whole show seems unnecessary from be in a plot level. Not the mind wipe/program part, of course a sci-fi show is gonna set up its rules and either you go for it or you don’t. this service would obvious be very expensive and the fact that these people spend all this money on services that seem like they would be alot cheaper to just get a negotiator or whore or body guard

[k4ng]

Ugh yeah the programmer is a total jerk with no redeeming qualities.

[satori]

he bares an uncanny resemblance to Seth Green.

[cybersuchus]

Ah no way. I love Topher (the programmer guy). In fact he's probably my favourite character on that show so far. He reminds me of Warren from Buffy, except that I actually like this character. Probably because Topher is strictly about treating his subjects like toys; regardless of gender (compared to Warren, who was a misogynistic prick). He knows what his job is, realizes the kind of power he wields, and is not hampered by the moral ambiguities that surround each situation. He's a functional sociopath, which is a nice change of pace from their usual portrayal as serial killers who go out in a blaze of glory.

[serenity]

Ah no way. I love Topher (the programmer guy). In fact he's probably my favourite character on that show so far. He reminds me of Warren from Buffy, except that I actually like this character. Probably because Topher is strictly about treating his subjects like toys; regardless of gender (compared to Warren, who was a misogynistic prick). He knows what his job is, realizes the kind of power he wields, and is not hampered by the moral ambiguities that surround each situation. He's a functional sociopath, which is a nice change of pace from their usual portrayal as serial killers who go out in a blaze of glory.

I like him, too. :) Some of the comments he makes remind me of Wash (Firefly).

What's funny is I haven't even thought of him as a jerk at all until it was mentioned here. I just thought of him as being good at what he does and having a good time doing it.

[poltah]

This isn't even original. Nothing in this show has surprised me yet. There's nothing new. Nothing we haven't seen before.

In the past when Whedon show us something that might seem like something we've seen before, he always turns it on it's head. Gives it a little twist or something.

[tokenuser]

I like him, too. :) Some of the comments he makes remind me of Wash (Firefly). Wash?? Wait for it ...

3 weeks in, and its slowly finding its place. Whedon said that he had a definite 5 year story arc in mind for the series. I hope Fox lets him get a a chance to play it out.

Its going to take time, but he is slowly working the threads, and it will start coming together towards the end of this series I think. Question is whether audiences are prepared to put that much effort into a show for a bigger reward at the end. Shows like Lost seem to indicate that a segment of the audience will do that, but I am not sure those are Fox's viewers.

[wideawakewesley]

This isn't even original. Nothing in this show has surprised me yet. There's nothing new. Nothing we haven't seen before.

In the past when Whedon show us something that might seem like something we've seen before, he always turns it on it's head. Gives it a little twist or something.

So you guessed the guy was a doll?

Just finished watching ep 3 and really getting into the show now. My only complaint is that Eliza needs to eat some pies, she looked ill in that episode when she had her top off.

Wes

[7h0m45]

So you guessed the guy was a doll?


so far that was the only cool moment of the show for me. i think something really needs to happen quick. every episode seems almost pointless from Echo's point of view other than the last 5 seconds of each episode when we realize she remembers something.

[masherscf]

So you guessed the guy was a doll?

Just finished watching ep 3 and really getting into the show now. My only complaint is that Eliza needs to eat some pies, she looked ill in that episode when she had her top off.

Wes

I think that's an American fetish...the famine-victim look.

[wideawakewesley]

I think that's an American fetish...the famine-victim look.

Yep, the size zero obsession of Hollywood. Still at least we have a chunky psycho stalker to drool over.

;)

Wes

[falen]

Okay here are my impressions of the show thus far:

It is not consistently good!

The over arching tale, regarding the Dollhouse and the FBI agent Paul seems like it could be a pretty satisfying and interesting show, probably Whedon's worst, but still pretty good. I like the programmer character Topher, I like seeing Amy Acker in a show especially with badass scars the burgeoning connection between Echo and Sierra is interest.

However, the actual monster/villain-of-the-week parts where Echo is sent out is terrible. Episode 3's Popstar plot or Episode 2's The Hunter of Women plot are just unpleasant and unfun.

I want to love the show, I like the concept of it but I just do not enjoy at all any of the times when Echo is actually sent out on random missions.

[sisterchristian]

I am definitely warming up to the show. The first episode was a fox-tastic crap-fest, but eps 2 and 3 show promise. It does seem to be getting better. Unfortunately it's already low ratings (for fox) are dropping with each episode. So like Terminator:SSC this is probably it's last season.... unless something major happens.

[maracle]

I did like the vague reference to "the attic". How it as used in context and the terminology and metaphor of the "dollhouse" give a good suggestion of what it is without beating us over the head with it. That’s good writing/mythology in my opinion

[wideawakewesley]

I am definitely warming up to the show. The first episode was a fox-tastic crap-fest, but eps 2 and 3 show promise. It does seem to be getting better. Unfortunately it's already low ratings (for fox) are dropping with each episode. So like Terminator:SSC this is probably it's last season.... unless something major happens.

Apparently it's doing very well on Hulu, which bodes well for the show staying around and I'm pretty sure I've read that Fox understand it takes time for a show of this sort to build a strong following and are prepared to give it time. As for Terminator, there is no chance in hell they'll cancel that with the movie out this year.

Some more info:

Fox's new Friday night sci-fi block of Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles and Dollhouse has disappointed in the ratings, but the shows are racking up big gains once a full week of DVR viewership gets added into the mix, according to The Hollywood Reporter.

According to Live+7 DVR data, the Dollhouse premiere episode's rating increased 30 percent after post-premiere-date viewing was included. Dollhouse went from a 2.0 adult demo number to a 2.6.

The show's lead-in, Terminator, gained even more: 36 percent.

The Terminator and Dollhouse gains are considered very high increases for time-shifted viewing, even for a Friday night.

Wes

[cybersuchus]

That's funny. I didn't even think about how Nielsen counts DVR viewership. I bet that screws up the numbers all over the place.

[masherscf]

Whedon fans like to party on Friday nights, who'd a thunk it?

[sisterchristian]

Apparently it's doing very well on Hulu, which bodes well for the show staying around and I'm pretty sure I've read that Fox understand it takes time for a show of this sort to build a strong following and are prepared to give it time. As for Terminator, there is no chance in hell they'll cancel that with the movie out this year.

Some more info:



Wes


How about this:

While these 18-49 number increases due to DVR viewing can’t hurt any, I’m not optimistic they’ll help much either. They certainly won’t save Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles. But, we have a couple of weeks of additional data. Dollhouse dropped from a 2.0 LIVE+SD (live viewing and DVR viewing the same night the show aired) 18-49 rating in its premiere episode to a 1.6 (if that holds up in the final numbers) last Friday. Even if Dollhouse kept all of its DVR viewers, it’s Live+7 rating will still shrink by .4.

I am not tremendously optimistic about Dollhouse’s survival chances for a second season. The trend isn’t good, the question is whether it’s good enough for Fridays. My sense is that Dollhouse will get to air all 13 of its episodes and then be done. But while we’re ready to say there’s no chance that Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles will be renewed, we’re not ready to say the same thing about Dollhouse.

From: http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/03/02/for-our-friends-at-whedonesquecom-and-everywhere-else-too/13814

[sisterchristian]

That's funny. I didn't even think about how Nielsen counts DVR viewership. I bet that screws up the numbers all over the place.

What's interesting is that these days the reported numbers are usually Live+SD (people who watched it live plus the people who watched it on their DVR the same day) and Live+7 (people who watched the live broadcast plus the people who watched it on their DVR within 7 days). However the number the studios look at is the "C3" number (how many commericals were actually watched both on Broadcast and on DVR's) which isn't actually released publicly, however the Live+SD are suppose to be rather close to the "C3" numbers.

Personally I have always found the whole ratings thing fascinating. Which show is beating which other show and that sort of thing. I was shocked to discover that NCIS, which I always liked but thought was a "CSI also ran" was occasionally number 1 in the ratings. And that the new Knight Rider regularly beats both TSCC and Dollhouse. LOL

[masherscf]

What's interesting is that these days the reported numbers are usually Live+SD (people who watched it live plus the people who watched it on their DVR the same day) and Live+7 (people who watched the live broadcast plus the people who watched it on their DVR within 7 days). However the number the studios look at is the "C3" number (how many commericals were actually watched both on Broadcast and on DVR's) which isn't actually released publicly, however the Live+SD are suppose to be rather close to the "C3" numbers.

Personally I have always found the whole ratings thing fascinating. Which show is beating which other show and that sort of thing. I was shocked to discover that NCIS, which I always liked but thought was a "CSI also ran" was occasionally number 1 in the ratings. And that the new Knight Rider regularly beats both TSCC and Dollhouse. LOL

"Spongebob Squarepants" regularly occupies tops stops for cable programs.

[cole-w]

Anybody else watch the episode that aired tonight?

I think it is the first time I can say for sure that this is probably going to be a very good show.

It had a very Joss feel to it for the first time.

[lavahot]

Anybody else watch the episode that aired tonight?

I think it is the first time I can say for sure that this is probably going to be a very good show.

I had a very Joss feel to it for the first time.

I have to say that I almost agree with you. This is definitely the first GREAT episode, but now the first indication that the show would succeed. All of the series has been leading up to this episode. Every episode has progressed the Big Arc to this point. This will either be the launching point for the series, or, with the trend between FOX and Joss, the middle episode.

[terryscss]

I really dug it too, this is the episode Joss and Eliza has been pimping as the one to watch and they were totally right, I'm really excited for this show right now!

[rokov]

Ok, what the hell just happened? Granted, it was gradually improving, but that was a huge leap forward. I almost feel like Joss has been punking us for the last five weeks, but it was all worth it ... my faith has been restored. I just hope that Fox doesn't ruin it this time.

[tokenuser]

I really dug it too, this is the episode Joss and Eliza has been pimping as the one to watch and they were totally right, I'm really excited for this show right now!Crap. Missed it. DVR played up.

[scoobydiesel]

Ha page 16 of this thread looks to all be good. Cant wait :D

next week better be the same great news. then im totally down.

[dr-nix]

I was about to stop watching the series all together when this episode came out. Good thing i checked out this thread or i wouldn't have watched it.

This opens new posibilities, i hope the next episode builds upon this one (1x06).

[joeyrock]

So the question is... since I've watched the first two. Can I skip the 3 after that and just watch this good one? Maybe some one can give a brief catch-up of those episodes so I don't have to actually watch them, please?

[lavahot]

So the question is... since I've watched the first two. Can I skip the 3 after that and just watch this good one? Maybe some one can give a brief catch-up of those episodes so I don't have to actually watch them, please?

No. We had to suffer through them, so should you.

[dr-nix]

No. We had to suffer through them, so should you.

haha, brilliant minds think alike. I was thinking of responding with that exact line :P

[joeyrock]

Dam it... :p

I think I'll just skip em, got the gist of the show, can't have missed much. If the episode is good, then it should be fairly evident what's going on. I won't have any time to watch it for a day or so, so if anyone would like to fill me in...there's time :D

[cit]

Woah, I finish episode 6 five minuts ago... Amazing... let's see if the show finally is what all we wish it has to be.

What a day today wife and children go all day to a grandparents house, and I stay at home "working/relaxin"... I watched: BSG Finale, Ep 6 Dollhouse, 3 Episodes of Lie to me and some Heroes season 4... I love internet!, for a Spanish/European people as me is the only way to see this series actually.

[cybersuchus]

As someone who has enjoyed the series since the pilot, I'm thrilled to see just how much better it has become just six episodes in. I have to disagree with Joss and Eliza though. I was hearing Joss's "voice" come through in episodes 4 and 5 as well (much more witty quippage between Topher and others).

I can understand why Joss chose to go this route. Given the huge plot development in episode six, it would feel strange to have the series start out from here. I always found that to be the chief fault with Alias. We were never really shown what her life was like before she turned against SD-6. With Dollhouse, we got to experience the everyday scenarios.

Bonus points to the show for getting Patton Oswalt on to play a San Francisco style entrepeneur.

"They'll throw the kindle at you."

Best line of the ep.

[sugarsickness]

yeah the show is now officially awesome

[satori]

I've been watching them all and have them all still on my DVR. I think I'm close to convincing my wife to watch it as well.

[murphy1d]

I'm all in now.

[lavahot]

Bonus points to the show for getting Patton Oswalt on to play a San Francisco style entrepeneur.

"They'll throw the kindle at you."

Best line of the ep.

I bet that's not the last we'll see of Patton Oswalt, but prolly for most of the rest of this season. BTW, I HATED the kindle line. I cringed so hard at that my testicles receded so far I temporarily became a woman.

[cole-w]

I bet that's not the last we'll see of Patton Oswalt, but prolly for most of the rest of this season. BTW, I HATED the kindle line. I cringed so hard at that my testicles receded so far I temporarily became a woman.



Wow, that is some serious cringing...

..but I agree, that line felt like it was trying way to hard to be cool.

If that makes sense...

I really enjoyed the "rick" line though...

[rokov]

I bet that's not the last we'll see of Patton Oswalt, but prolly for most of the rest of this season. BTW, I HATED the kindle line. I cringed so hard at that my testicles receded so far I temporarily became a woman.

The kindle line didn't bother me too much, but I was really annoyed by the other three that they pointlessly threw in and then apparently had to change just slightly for legal reasons.

[lavahot]

The kindle line didn't bother me too much, but I was really annoyed by the other three that they pointlessly threw in and then apparently had to change just slightly for legal reasons.

Actually, it showed that he came up with novel ideas but attached them to idiotic premises. Character dev my friend.

[dexter]

Have one "good" episode out of six is deffinetly not enough to make me watch again maybe if every single epsiode for the rest of the season is "good" i might watch it again. Guess i'll have to wait and see.

[tokenuser]

Have one "good" episode out of six is deffinetly not enough to make me watch again maybe if every single epsiode for the rest of the season is "good" i might watch it again. Guess i'll have to wait and see.That one "good" episode was only such because of the 5 that came before it setting up the storyline and 'verse. Its the way Whedon works.

[kilroyperrywinkle]

Okay, someone explain to me why this episode was so damn good?

Wait that came off wrong. Lemme start again.

(Spoiler Warning...)




I love this show. Its not perfect but I like it a lot. I've liked all the episode so far and this past one was good. But it wasn't awesome or anything. I mean seriously, did no one figure out his neighbor was a doll? A single pretty girl just happens to live NEXT door to him and you think in Whedon's world this stuff just happens? I've been betting on that for like 4 episodes...

So what was so great about this one?

The lack of Eliza? Maybe... the rapist B Story? The "inside man" take on Echo's imprint? Knowing Joss that's a writing ploy that's just a red herring (like communism) to throw us off.

With Whedon you can't take things as they are. You've got assume that he's written characters that are smarter than they look. (IE, the handler figuring out who the real rapist was.) Its all good though, I'm not complaining I just dont get why everyone thinks that just because they spoofed all Google/Internet-Startup-Guys, that this episode was amazing...

It was a good episode all right, but the whole series so far has been good.

[neverendingwhitelights]

I look at it like this, those first few episodes is like driving around in town, getting to the Interstate, and with this last episode Dollhouse is now getting on the Interstate. Things are linking up, characters are becoming more three-dimensional, the story is heating up, this is where the show really starts, it feels like.

Glad FOX actually let it get this far, let's see how much longer they let it get. I still say if it lasts more than 2 seasons I'll be shocked.

[masherscf]

Glad FOX actually let it get this far, let's see how much longer they let it get. I still say if it lasts more than 2 seasons I'll be shocked.

Joss had it written into the contract that FOX would air initial episode order entirely and in-order. As a mid-season replacement, that's all we can expect for the first season. I'll be surprised if the show is still on in the fall unless it start to really kick-ass with the general public... not just Whedon fans.

[wideawakewesley]

It's going to struggle in the UK because it's on the SciFi channel, which isn't in the slightest bit mainstream. Unfortunately a large UK audience usually helps US shows stay on the air, but unless someone like Sky1 or a terrestrial channel like BBC/ITV invest in it, there's no chance.

Still, I have my fingers crossed. Anyway, if Fox let it go, perhaps the new SyFy channel in the US can pick it up and run with it.

Wes

[poltah]

That one "good" episode was only such because of the 5 that came before it setting up the storyline and 'verse. Its the way Whedon works.

No it's not. You think Serenity is as ad as Ghost? You didn't like Train job? Shindig? Safe? All great firefly episodes. Maybe not THE BEST episodes, but definitely good.

The first 3 episodes of Dollhouse were bad. They weren't good by any stretch of the imagination if you ask me. The characters were flat and one dimensional. The stories were unoriginal and unbelievable. Same goes for a lot of the character's actions.

Gray Hour was okay. Same goes for True believer. If those were the two worst episodes of the season, it would be a decent show.
Fact of the matter is though, that one of the reasons those two episodes kind of worked were because Echo weren't in them a lot.
But when she played blind strong chic? Oh my god, horrible.

Now. Episode 6 worked. It was a good episode. But it was still an episode with almost no Echo.
She was surprisingly good as a shocked house mother (Is that a porn man?! Second laugh this season, yay...), and then she was a tough chick. Which she can do.

My mind were pretty set on "If this episode isn't good, I'm going to stop watching". It was good, so I'm gonna give it two more episodes. If those episodes aren't good. I'm going to stop.
Why watch a show that's not good? There are tons of shows out there where it doesn't take 5 episodes before you get a good episodes. And if it gets good later, I can just watch it then.
No need to watch it when it sucks.

We don't owe Joss Whedon anything. I bought Firelfy, I watched all of Buffy and Angel, I bought Dr.Horrible.
I've given him five crappy episodes, I'm going to watch a couple more.

Honestly. If the rest of the episodes do not live up to Episode 6, it should get canceled. Because it won't be a good show.
I love Joss Whedon, but a bad show is a bad show.

One other thing though: The fight in Episode 6 was amazing! It's just the kind of fight choreography I like. It wasn't realistic, but it was kind of close. Loved it! Raw! Great! More of that!

[wideawakewesley]

One other thing though: The fight in Episode 6 was amazing! It's just the kind of fight choreography I like. It wasn't realistic, but it was kind of close. Loved it! Raw! Great! More of that!

It reminded me of the kick-ass fights they had on Buffy, only this one was even better.

And anyone who doubts Eliza's acting ability should rewatch the blind episode, I thought she was excellent in it.

[poltah]

It reminded me of the kick-ass fights they had on Buffy, only this one was even better.

And anyone who doubts Eliza's acting ability should rewatch the blind episode, I thought she was excellent in it.

I disagree. She looked like somebody who had watched a movie with blind people and tried to copy that.
Wasn't bad though. It just wasn't that good.

But I mean, her as a top negotiator? And every time she plays a doll I feel like turning off.

[fade2gray]

Honestly. If the rest of the episodes do not live up to Episode 6, it should get canceled. Because it won't be a good show.
I love Joss Whedon, but a bad show is a bad show.


Liked 6 better than the others so far too, but I'm still not convinced that the show's premise has any life in it. There is still a part of me that really hopes this show goes under sooner rather than latter so that Whedon can take his lickings, figure out what went wrong, and move on to something with a better premise.

[serenity]

We don't owe Joss Whedon anything. I bought Firelfy, I watched all of Buffy and Angel, I bought Dr.Horrible.
I've given him five crappy episodes, I'm going to watch a couple more.



*** Warning. The opinions expressed below are just that. Opinions. ***

I disagree on this note. For myself - I do believe I owe Joss something. He gave me one the most powerful and wonderful stories ever told. The only things that are as powerful (well, more in the case of the DT series) in my mind are The Dark Tower series by Stephen King and the Ender's Game series by Orson Scott Card.

For Firefly alone I feel I owe him my viewership for at least as many episodes of any new show he does that I can stand. When it gets horrible enough to be unbearable, I would stop watching. (Kinda like how "Heroes" is)

Hell, I never liked "Buffy" so never really watched it. I've now seen the entire first season and still really don't like it. But season 2 is coming via Netflix anyway. It's not unbearable yet. :P

*** That was just my opinion, of course! Wouldn't expect everyone to feel the same ***


Anyways - Dollhouse is much improved from it's first few episodes and I am so happy I gave it some time! :D

[dirtyhat]

Overall I liked episode 6 and where the show seems to be going now...

I did have a couple of problems, mostly just with one scene. 1) he just stays and talks to mr. minor? not even a quick run outside to see what the getaway vehicle looked like or anything or a little attempt to chase? did he ride a bicycle there and figure he couldn't catch them? for someone so invested in finding out who she is, he sure did give up really easy and let her getaway. 2) I didn't like the conversation between Topher and Minor. A FBI agent isn't just going to sit and have a friendly conversation. Especially, after beating down a few bodyguards, it got way to calm after that... he didn't even grill him on any questions. I don't know if that was supposed to make Minor look like a big shot, who had all the control over the situation, but it didnt work for me...
those were my main concerns, had a couple others but nothing else big. Overall after that, good episode.

[rokov]

*** Warning. The opinions expressed below are just that. Opinions. ***

I disagree on this note. For myself - I do believe I owe Joss something. He gave me one the most powerful and wonderful stories ever told. The only things that are as powerful (well, more in the case of the DT series) in my mind are The Dark Tower series by Stephen King and the Ender's Game series by Orson Scott Card.

For Firefly alone I feel I owe him my viewership for at least as many episodes of any new show he does that I can stand. When it gets horrible enough to be unbearable, I would stop watching. (Kinda like how "Heroes" is)

Hell, I never liked "Buffy" so never really watched it. I've now seen the entire first season and still really don't like it. But season 2 is coming via Netflix anyway. It's not unbearable yet. :P

*** That was just my opinion, of course! Wouldn't expect everyone to feel the same ***


Anyways - Dollhouse is much improved from it's first few episodes and I am so happy I gave it some time! :D

I know that it sounds irrational, but I also feel somewhat indebted to Joss. Buffy was hitting it's stride and Angel was starting around the time that Episode I was released and Firefly started a few months after Episode II was released. So, just as one hero was bitterly disappointing me (and making a mockery of my childhood), here was Joss showing that he might just be the new hope (pun intended) for the genre.

[poltah]

Joss Whedon has given me great stories, and I've paid for those stories. What I owe him is commitment to something that has been proven good, in my opinion. There were horrible Buffy episodes, and I watched them because the show had proven it could be good.
Same goes for Angel. I bougth Dr.Horrible because I liked it. That's how you repay the creator. By supporting the product and him.

I do not owe him wasting hours of my life on a bad show, when I could spend that time watching something that's actually good.

[serenity]

Joss Whedon has given me great stories, and I've paid for those stories. What I owe him is commitment to something that has been proven good, in my opinion. There were horrible Buffy episodes, and I watched them because the show had proven it could be good.
Same goes for Angel. I bougth Dr.Horrible because I liked it. That's how you repay the creator. By supporting the product and him.

I do not owe him wasting hours of my life on a bad show, when I could spend that time watching something that's actually good.

I suppose what I meant by that was that I didn't feel like "paying" for the show (say, buying the Firefly DvD's -twice!-) in any way paid for what he gave me. Just paying for Dr. Horrible and Firefly feels like throwing nickles to pay for diamonds. I just feel like I can't repay him enough.

[poltah]

What's everybody's opinion on the latest episode? It felt so boring and pointless to me. I'm giving this show episode 8 to be good, if not I'm gonna stop watching. Everytime I watch a dollhouse episode, think about the awesome shows out there you could watch instead.

Best part of the latest episode was when Dusku and her former boyfriend or whoever he was walked into the lab and were like "Oh look, babies in jars. That's kind of... OH MY GOD, DOGS IN CAGES! THAT'S HORRIBLE!"

[cole-w]

I loved last weeks episode, and i really liked this weeks, i thought it was really funny...


Next weeks episode looks awesome though...

[lavahot]

Next weeks episode looks awesome though...

And now the series begins.

[terryscss]

I really like this episode, I thought it felt really Joss-y.

"I'm very British"

I mean come on, almost every Joss fan on here that seems to not like Dollhouse has complained about the lack of comedy, this episode gave it to you in spades, I don't know what else Joss can do to win you over.

Anyway, I'm very excited to see what happens next week!

[rokov]

I loved this week's episode. The comedy was classic Joss, especially the scenes with DeWitt and Topher and ED didn't even get on my nerves that much.

[fade2gray]

I'm with most of you guys. For the first time I'm actually starting to think that this show could just work. When I was watching all of the Dolls interacting at the university I suddenly got this strong Katharine Kerr, reincarnation vibe that made all of the potential in this show finally become apparent to me. I'm really stating to get excited about this show for a change.

[poltah]

But it's still not very intellegent writing.

The vial they're all so keen on finding is located in a lab with a bunch of other vials. Why did they need dolls to find that? Why didn't anyone just go "Hey, maybe we should look in one of these big cabients filled with vials".

[lavahot]

But it's still not very intellegent writing.

The vial they're all so keen on finding is located in a lab with a bunch of other vials. Why did they need dolls to find that? Why didn't anyone just go "Hey, maybe we should look in one of these big cabients filled with vials".

Well, for one, they were thought to be immune to it's effects. Two, the owner of the lab owns the dollhouse and wanted it to be very quietly handled.

[poltah]

Well, for one, they were thought to be immune to it's effects. Two, the owner of the lab owns the dollhouse and wanted it to be very quietly handled.

He didn't own the Dollhouse, he was just a very important client.

But the logic is still wrong. They thought it was a drug that had to be taken to have any effect. So it didn't matter if who they sent in to deal with the situation was immune or not.
But even if that wasn't true. They didn't only send Dolls. They send the handler, the security guy and some other people too.
I mean, I'm an idiot, and I can see a good deal of flaws in the whole scenario. It's not very good writing. And I don't think I'm being nitpicky, but people just don't behave lvery beliveably in that show.

[lavahot]

He didn't own the Dollhouse, he was just a very important client.

But the logic is still wrong. They thought it was a drug that had to be taken to have any effect. So it didn't matter if who they sent in to deal with the situation was immune or not.
But even if that wasn't true. They didn't only send Dolls. They send the handler, the security guy and some other people too.
I mean, I'm an idiot, and I can see a good deal of flaws in the whole scenario. It's not very good writing. And I don't think I'm being nitpicky, but people just don't behave lvery beliveably in that show.

The Rossom Corporation either owns the dollhouse outright or is the authority that the dollhouse has to answer to. You're right, he didn't own the dollhouse, he was a co-chair of the Rossom Corporation. If it didn't matter if the dolls were immune, why did they make such a big deal out of it in the beginning? They knew it was spreading, they just didn't know how. Besides, it's not like anyone has ever been forced onto a drug before. They sent the head of Rossom Security and dolls only. The Security guy was acting as the handler for all of the dolls, which is why he was the only one from the team who tripped out in the expected way.

[poltah]

The Rossom Corporation either owns the dollhouse outright or is the authority that the dollhouse has to answer to. You're right, he didn't own the dollhouse, he was a co-chair of the Rossom Corporation. If it didn't matter if the dolls were immune, why did they make such a big deal out of it in the beginning? They knew it was spreading, they just didn't know how. Besides, it's not like anyone has ever been forced onto a drug before. They sent the head of Rossom Security and dolls only. The Security guy was acting as the handler for all of the dolls, which is why he was the only one from the team who tripped out in the expected way.

I remember at least 3 non dolls sent by the Dollhouse tripping. Now if they knew they it was affecting none-dolls, why send somebody in who's obviously going to be affected?

[Infinity_Man]

I cannot find any reason to like the main character. So, because of that, it kind of kills it for me.
That being said, I was only able to make myself watch the first 3 episodes. Maybe it got better/ more interesting.

[lavahot]

I remember at least 3 non dolls sent by the Dollhouse tripping. Now if they knew they it was affecting none-dolls, why send somebody in who's obviously going to be affected?

There was the guy at the security desk who worked for rossom, not a part of the team, not a doll. I don't recall any others. Please cite the three you recall with timecodes.

[poltah]

There was the guy at the security desk who worked for rossom, not a part of the team, not a doll. I don't recall any others. Please cite the three you recall with timecodes.

Eh no. Feel I've wasted enough time on this show at is. Might just have been two. Might have been one. If it was one, still stupid to send him in.

And again: You're looking for a vial. How about looking in the cabinets filled with vials? I do not understand why people keep defending this show. If it wasn't Joss Whedon, no one would.
There's a scene in this episode where two people walk into a room filled with caged animals, and BABIES IN JARS! And they're mostly upset about the caged animals. How on earth does that make any sense?

[dignan17]

poltah: I'm not sure why you're so confused about this last episode.

The premise is that a vial of the drug is missing. The assumption, whether correct or not, was that someone with access to the drug stole it and was selling it for its narcotic-like effects.

The dolls were sent in with the head of security in order to get a handle on the situation. It was completely unknown that the effects of the drugs were merely spread through touch. It was also unknown that the dolls would be affected.

What's so confusing?

And they didn't look in the cabinet full of vials because why would they assume that it was hidden within another vial? That would be a pretty big leap to take.


For me, I agree that this show has gotten good, but it's not great and not on par with other Joss shows. Yes, it's very entertaining and quite compelling, but there's nothing profound about it, the characters aren't very interesting (aside from the FBI agent, but I think I just like him because he was great on BSG), and there isn't any of that really funny Joss dialogue. They've clearly tried to include it, but it feels forced and oddly out of place for this show.

So I watch it for the compelling situations and the occasional moments of "bad-assness." That fight between the FBI agent and Echo in/behind the Chinese restaurant was fantastic! A really great brawler with the two going all out and holding nothing back. I was truly impressed by that scene.

Essentially, I continue to question why I like the show so much, given that it doesn't have any deeper effect on me than "hey, that's cool." All I know is that when I see the next week's preview, I have to admit that after episode 5, I've always been very curious to see what happens next.

[poltah]

My problem is this:

They want to find a vial. They assume it's been stolen. Alright. First of all, if I was in the situation and I saw cabinets filled with vials. I'd at least have a look.
Secondly, if I assume it's been stolen, why would the thief hide it at the school?

That's one thing. The second thing is: They don't know how it spread, but they sent in the dolls because they are immune. That makes sense. Doesn't make sense to send somebody in who's not a doll then, since he'll probably get infected if it's airborne or infects via touch.

Now, if they don't think it's airborne or affects via touch, and you have to inject the virus in some way, there would be any need for the use of dolls.

But that's only a few things. There's still the jokes that fell flat. Terribly flat and boring characters. Cliches all over the place, and poor acting. Now I want this show to be good. I'm hoping, that why I've watched 8 episodes of a show where I only liked one episode.
But it seems like people are trying to defend the show and convince themselves that the show is good, when it's not. At least, it's not as good as a lot of other shows out there.

[terryscss]

All I know is that when I see the next week's preview, I have to admit that after episode 5, I've always been very curious to see what happens next.

I think that's pretty much the definition of a good show, something that makes you come back for more.

[kilroyperrywinkle]

First I respect your desire to not waste anymore time debating this ep. then immediately posting again about it. That takes courage.

My problem is this:

They want to find a vial. They assume it's been stolen. Alright. First of all, if I was in the situation and I saw cabinets filled with vials. I'd at least have a look.
Secondly, if I assume it's been stolen, why would the thief hide it at the school?

That's one thing. The second thing is: They don't know how it spread, but they sent in the dolls because they are immune. That makes sense. Doesn't make sense to send somebody in who's not a doll then, since he'll probably get infected if it's airborne or infects via touch.
.

I think you need to pay attention better. They clearly stated in the beginning of the ep. that they thought (wrongly) that the drug was stolen and being ingested either on purpose or through other means. (A pop machine was actually deduced in the show.) They put the dolls in place to round up the stricken students and take them to quarantine as a precaution. They were the ones interacting directly with the victims. It makes sense that the handlers, as long as they didn't eat or drink anything on campus should be able to move without fear of infection.

The twist that it was spread through touch was neat but wasn't grand writing, but it makes TV Show Sense.

Your down right hatred for the show is the problem, there are tons of reasons to not like it: Eliza's bad acting... the fact that none of the characters are really likable... and that it takes a drug to make any of them seem human... but your quibbles over this ep. seems to just come from a bad attention span really.

[poltah]

First I respect your desire to not waste anymore time debating this ep. then immediately posting again about it. That takes courage.



I think you need to pay attention better. They clearly stated in the beginning of the ep. that they thought (wrongly) that the drug was stolen and being ingested either on purpose or through other means. (A pop machine was actually deduced in the show.) They put the dolls in place to round up the stricken students and take them to quarantine as a precaution. They were the ones interacting directly with the victims. It makes sense that the handlers, as long as they didn't eat or drink anything on campus should be able to move without fear of infection.



But then it makes no sense to use the Dolls. If they thought that you needed to injest something, why use the Dolls? And I don't hate the show. I just don't think it's quality TV.

[-mk-]

But then it makes no sense to use the Dolls. If they thought that you needed to injest something, why use the Dolls? And I don't hate the show. I just don't think it's quality TV.
Dude, really. We get you don't like it, and it's apparent that most disagree. Time to move on.

Back on topic: I'm glad the show's finally warmed up. The story's taken on some complexity during the last few episodes and has finally start to become more serial for me rather than the procedural vibe I was getting at the start. We actually developed a backlog of 3-4 episodes because of this, it just wasn't grabbing us. We've watched the past two on Friday and/or Saturday though, and are looking forward to seeing where it goes from here.

[darknessgp]

Well, I got to sit down and watch the last few episodes back to back. It's enough to get me hooked, interesting overarching story, the week to week plots are mildly interesting. Is it bad that I find the most interesting people are who I'd say are secondary characters? Like Topher and the doctor.

[dirtyhat]

Is it bad that I find the most interesting people are who I'd say are secondary characters? Like Topher and the doctor.

It might be bad... but I agree with you. The scenes between topher and dewitt in the latest episode, has been my favorite part of the show so far. Echoes handler I think plays a good part as well...

[murphy1d]

Just watched last night's show (God I love Hulu now).

I'm plateau-ing a bit right now. I think the ep was just another arch development but there were less "wow" factors in this one (IMO).

What WAS interesting was the hint at a "Spotless Mind" back story there. I'll still be coming back to get more details.

[terryscss]

I think the ep was just another arch development but there were less "wow" factors in this one (IMO).

I don't know, Echo leading out the other actives out of the dollhouse at gun point was pretty epic!

[Bret]

past week was one of the better episodes, but im still not loving the show. firefly grabbed me in immediately as did angel. This show is a bit slower on the uptake but hopefully it gets better...before it gets canceled.

[murphy1d]

I don't know, Echo leading out the other actives out of the dollhouse at gun point was pretty epic!

I hear ya, but my thought is that it seemed "unfinished," like it was necessary to tell this tale because it will be important later. Which makes for a good season, but an average (again, IMO) episode.

[lavahot]

I think the show is getting to the point where it's beginning to spin its wheels. It is relying on the momentum of previous episodes to carry the story through instead of actually accomplishing things from episode to episode.

[namredips]

If you all have not seen this its worth a read...


http://www.tvguide.com/news/whedon-dollhouse-stronger-1004045.aspx

[-mk-]

If you all have not seen this its worth a read...


http://www.tvguide.com/news/whedon-dollhouse-stronger-1004045.aspx

But since almost before Dollhouse opened its doors, the buzz has been that the structure of the first five hours was largely dictated by Fox, so as to drive home the unusual concept and morally gray characters.
Awfully familiar, and familiarly awful.

[darknessgp]

If you all have not seen this its worth a read...


http://www.tvguide.com/news/whedon-dollhouse-stronger-1004045.aspx

just another sign that Joss hasn't realized that Fox is milking him and then killing his shows? I'm not sure if he has ever said, but does anyone know if Fox was the first company he pitched the show to?

[gglynn00]

does anyone know if Fox was the first company he pitched the show to?

If I'm not mistaken, Fox approached him and begged for forgiveness...But don't quote that as being fact.

My take so far: I'm in agreement with most watchers of the show that the last two episodes were a whole lot better; with episode 8 being the best so far IMO. To me if this show was being written by a different creator, episode seven would have been a mid-season "sweeps week" episode and episode 8 would have been the "teaser" season finale. But Joss did these two episodes in all reality as episodes 1 and 2 according to the above TV guide article link...That takes some serious balls in my book and makes me want to watch even more.

[poltah]

just another sign that Joss hasn't realized that Fox is milking him and then killing his shows? I'm not sure if he has ever said, but does anyone know if Fox was the first company he pitched the show to?

He developed the show together with Eliza Dushku who had a producing deal with FOX. They pitched the show to Fox who agreed to do 13 episodes minimum.
And it's not like they're milking Joss. He gets paid. He gets a show. They spend money on it, and it's not like this is a huge success. It's doing alright.

[dirtyhat]

He developed the show together with Eliza Dushku who had a producing deal with FOX. They pitched the show to Fox who agreed to do 13 episodes minimum.
And it's not like they're milking Joss. He gets paid. He gets a show. They spend money on it, and it's not like this is a huge success. It's doing alright.

So they cancelled the show and aren't even airing the 13th episode... which was the ep with Felicia Day... Fox is a terrible network in my opinion, their execs want big hits but don't let any shows develop and build a fan base before they get canned.

NBC is probably my favorite network. 30 Rock, The Office, Kings among other shows are the ones I watch regularly.

...and SouthLAnd that premieres tonight on NBC is pretty good too. Thought it was a good pilot show that peeked my interest enough to see where the show develops from here... check it out if you have nothing better to do tonight... maybe I'll start a SouthLAnd thread lol

[wideawakewesley]

Show hasn't been cancelled.

http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/04/08/dollhouse-only-getting-12-episodes-aired/16334

[7h0m45]

So they cancelled the show and aren't even airing the 13th episode... which was the ep with Felicia Day... Fox is a terrible network in my opinion, their execs want big hits but don't let any shows develop and build a fan base before they get canned.



Dollhouse is not canceled, technically its episode 14 that wont be aired. The season finale is going to be aired, i guess they filmed an extra episode that Fox did not order or pay for and that it the one that wont be shown.

well thats what this article is saying,

http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/watch_with_kristin/b117929_dollhouse_heres_deal_on_season_finale.html

edit:
Show hasn't been cancelled.

http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/04/08/dollhouse-only-getting-12-episodes-aired/16334

ahh to fast for me.

[dirtyhat]

Obviously you two give fox more credit than what is due (which is fine)

It's not official I suppose but I am going by Fox's track record... and by that I concluded for myself that, cutting a season short (only airing 12 of 13 ordered and 14 actually shot episodes [they shot 2 pilots]) means that even though "they are in decision making phase" in picking up the show for a second season... In my mind that's so they don't lose viewership (read sponsors) for the last few episodes that will air.

laymans terms - they don't want to announce the show is cancelled before the last episode airs so they don't lose money from people not tuning in for something that isn't continuing.

Of Course this is just all speculation on my behalf... but it makes sense to me... and that's all that counts ;

Don't get me wrong I hope the show goes on... maybe word will get out that the show is getting better and viewership will go up and there is still time to save season 2!

But even the website you quoted predicted the show is in danger of being cancelled http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/03/31/time-running-out-for-dollhouse/15642

[poltah]

I hope the show gets cancelled so Joss Whedon can get back to creating quality content again.
Fox isn't a positive thing, I agree. They handle movies and TV like idiots. But cancelling this show wouldn't be a bad decision in my opinion.

[lavahot]

I can't believe you guys want to get rid of Dollhouse so quickly. I mean, there's 5 or 6 more episodes to go before FOX makes a decision, let's not be haste-y.

[poltah]

I can't believe you guys want to get rid of Dollhouse so quickly. I mean, there's 5 or 6 more episodes to go before FOX makes a decision, let's not be haste-y.

It's been 8 episodes, and one has been good. How many episodes do a show get to stop being bad?
My opinon of course, but I'd say that Dollhouse has had more than enough chances at proving itself.

[dirtyhat]

It's been 8 episodes, and one has been good. How many episodes do a show get to stop being bad?
My opinon of course, but I'd say that Dollhouse has had more than enough chances at proving itself.

To be fair how many episodes came from Joss and how many were Fox's doing? there's only 1 and half eps. I think Joss had free range to do what he wanted

[poltah]

To be fair how many episodes came from Joss and how many were Fox's doing? there's only 1 and half eps. I think Joss had free range to do what he wanted

I think it's too easy to blame it all on Fox. Dusku is a producer, and as far as we know there they wanted to change the pilot a bit. Which Joss said was the right choice. They moved episode 6 to episode 2, and besides that, I don't really think Fox has done really anything to mess with this show.

Is it FOXs fault that the characters are flat and boring? That Dusku is unconvincing? That the storylines are boring? That the show very often is poorly written and unfunny? (Even when it's trying to BE funny).

[dirtyhat]

I think it's too easy to blame it all on Fox. Dusku is a producer, and as far as we know there they wanted to change the pilot a bit. Which Joss said was the right choice. They moved episode 6 to episode 2, and besides that, I don't really think Fox has done really anything to mess with this show.

Is it FOXs fault that the characters are flat and boring? That Dusku is unconvincing? That the storylines are boring? That the show very often is poorly written and unfunny? (Even when it's trying to BE funny).

I'm not placing all the blame on fox but I would place more blame on them than not based on their track record of shows.

[kilroyperrywinkle]

The show is good.

You just need to learn the difference between "good" and "firefly." It's different than the "monster of the week" that was Buffy and Angel, and it's not near as stupid and redundant as Dr. Horrible, (sorry, but in my opinion that was an abortion) and it's not near the perfect balance of Firefly.

But compared with Heroes, Lost, and all the other crappy CSI shows that seem to attract views I find it very good, and very entertaining.



I think that if it does get canceled, its Dusku's fault. The bad press about her bad acting (which is very bad) might of been a bit too much.

[dirtyhat]

The show is good.

You just need to learn the difference between "good" and "firefly." It's different than the "monster of the week" that was Buffy and Angel, and it's not near as stupid and redundant as Dr. Horrible, (sorry, but in my opinion that was an abortion) and it's not near the perfect balance of Firefly.

I don't know if you were referencing me... but I've never even seen firefly or Angel and not too much of Buffy either. I didn't even really know Joss' name until Dr. Horrible. which I thought was good.

...Let's get one thing straight, I like the show. I wouldn't mind seeing it comeback... but based on whats happening that's unlikely. Why would you pay for an episode to be produced than not air it? When it's announced that the show is cancelled I can come back here and tell you all, "I told you so"... on the other hand if it doesn't you can tell me, "I told you so" and I will continue too watch the second season... either way I win.

[poltah]

I don't know if you were referencing me... but I've never even seen firefly or Angel and not too much of Buffy either. I didn't even really know Joss' name until Dr. Horrible. which I thought was good.

...Let's get one thing straight, I like the show. I wouldn't mind seeing it comeback... but based on whats happening that's unlikely. Why would you pay for an episode to be produced than not air it? When it's announced that the show is cancelled I can come back here and tell you all, "I told you so"... on the other hand if it doesn't you can tell me, "I told you so" and I will continue too watch the second season... either way I win.

Yeah, because calling that a bad show is going to get cancelled is a magnificent feat. I hope it gets cancelled.
I'm not expecting it to be firefly, I'm just expecting it to be entertaining. Not entertaining me. Discussing it is fun though :)

[jimi_treo]

I still can't decide if I like the show or not but I keep watching every week. The episode where they were aware of the dollhouse and escaping was probably the best one so far. Although I guess the drug episode was okay too even if it was totally ridiculous. The show is missing the xander-type comedic relief. I guess the techie guy is supposed to provide this element but it falls flat. Hopefully it keeps getting better.

[terryscss]

I really dug this past episode. Its cool to see Echo still learning. Love or hate Dushku, you have to admit, the character of Echo is getting pretty cool!

[satori]

I'd love to see Echo get in some nasty 'accident' that required 'facial surgery' so she'd end up being played by another actor. Still, the episodes keep getting better and better. This last one was on par with a Buffy season 3 ep, I'm hooked.

[sugarsickness]

this last ep was really REALLY good. The scene between Ballard and November where she is programmed to tell him about Mellie was sad :< BUT ALSO AWESOME.

[cybersuchus]

Loved the latest episode. I'm not a big fan of non-linear storytelling techniques (I'm even less of a fan for flashbacks), but I felt it worked really well this time. There were plenty of twists and turns in this one, and while the final twist was hardly surprising; the road getting there was great.

I still don't get the whole "we hate Dushku fanclub." Faith was a fan favourite on Buffy. Eliza's acting has always seemed on par with Alison Hannigan, or Emma Caulfield. If one wants to talk about bad acting in the show, then how about the girl who plays November/the neighbour? I can't tell if her unbelievability is because of her acting, or if her face is just incapable of displaying emotion (she always seems to be smiling in every scene). IMO she's the least convincing of all the Dollhouse cast.

[tw33k2514]

Loved the latest episode. I'm not a big fan of non-linear storytelling techniques (I'm even less of a fan for flashbacks), but I felt it worked really well this time. There were plenty of twists and turns in this one, and while the final twist was hardly surprising; the road getting there was great.

I still don't get the whole "we hate Dushku fanclub." Faith was a fan favourite on Buffy. Eliza's acting has always seemed on par with Alison Hannigan, or Emma Caulfield. If one wants to talk about bad acting in the show, then how about the girl who plays November/the neighbour? I can't tell if her unbelievability is because of her acting, or if her face is just incapable of displaying emotion (she always seems to be smiling in every scene). IMO she's the least convincing of all the Dollhouse cast.

I could not agree with this more. Spot on.

[murphy1d]

I think we are starting to see the range of acting each Doll has (the actor, that is). I was impressed with Victor this episode.

The need to be an actor "with range" is obvious, but only just hit home in the last episode. Echo seems so far to be Eliza with different attitudes. But November showed she can be convincingly sweet and scary, and Sierra seems to be opening her breadth of skills too.

[poltah]

After watching episode 9 I have to admit that it was a pretty good episode. So that gives two good episodes out of nine. Guess the curiosity got the better of me.

The acting still isn't very good, but the indication that the boss of the dollhouse might be a doll herself was cool.

I'm the only one having a problem with the dollhouse basically being a whorehouse 9/10 times?

[lavahot]

while the final twist was hardly surprising; the road getting there was great.

What???? I had NO IDEA that was going to happen, I thought it was that other person, from the beginning of the ep!

[cybersuchus]

What???? I had NO IDEA that was going to happen, I thought it was that other person, from the beginning of the ep!

I didn't mean for it to sound like I guessed who the mole was ahead of time. I just mean that when they revealed who it was, it didn't surprise me. That character had been voicing issues with how the Dollhouse was being run for the entirety of the series. So I could completely see that character as the saboteur.

[everybodystalking]

So who is sending Cop Dude all these messages from inside the Dollhouse? I'm pegging Doctor Chick, but then after this episode might be Boss Lady.

Is it sad I don't know anyone's name (not counting the dolls) by heart yet?

[joeyrock]

I haven't watched this since episode 2... but I think I might check it out this week. :p Who knows, maybe I'll watch some past episodes too. Kudos Joss.. kudos.. don't go down without a fight.

http://www.popoholic.com/2009/04/10/eliza-dushku-as-a-dominatrix/

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/9954/elizadushkuapr04.jpg (http://img186.imageshack.us/my.php?image=elizadushkuapr04.jpg)

.................................................. ................:rolleyes:

[dirtyhat]

I haven't watched this since episode 2... but I think I might check it out this week. :p Who knows, maybe I'll watch some past episodes too. Kudos Joss.. kudos.. don't go down without a fight.

http://www.popoholic.com/2009/04/10/eliza-dushku-as-a-dominatrix/

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/9954/elizadushkuapr04.jpg (http://img186.imageshack.us/my.php?image=elizadushkuapr04.jpg)

.................................................. ................:rolleyes:

Wait... thats whats on the episode this week? and why haven't I watched it yet? lol

[mrpopular]

I'm definitely digging the last few episodes. But it seems like every episode something huge is going wrong with the Dollhouse which i don't dig.

I really think the show needs to more focus away from the Dolls going out, and more of the Cop, maybe Topher etc.. next week seems like another regular blah ep. All I know is i'm still watching so.

[dolson]

Waiting to find out if the show is canceled before I bother to start watching it at all... No point if the show doesn't conclude properly or continue for another season or two.

[masherscf]

Waiting to find out if the show is canceled before I bother to start watching it at all... No point if the show doesn't conclude properly or continue for another season or two.

I don't hold much hope for it. The internet haters have sunk t he show.

[lonelyspacepanda]

For all of us that stopped watching after 3 episodes, such as myself, what is the consesus on how its fared since then? Same old same old, downhill, uphill, amazing comeback or what?

[poltah]

For all of us that stopped watching after 3 episodes, such as myself, what is the consesus on how its fared since then? Same old same old, downhill, uphill, amazing comeback or what?

In my opinion, there's been two good episodes. Episode 5 was very cool, and Episode 9 was pretty cool too.
You can watch those two episodes independtly pretty much. Everything in between is filled with poor acting, cliches, flat characters and poor storytelling.
But get your hands on Episode 5 and 9 and watch those.

[lonelyspacepanda]

Awesome. I'll need to check them out now. However, if any of them contain more scenes of Eliza Dushku acting like a cheap stripper or singing Brittney Spears leftovers I will be very angry with you.

+_+

[satori]

I almost think that if Whedon gets another shot at making another show he use someone elses name. Dollhouse is being held to such a standard that I simply do not think it's fair.