Suburban Glamour, or as my mom calls it "Suburban Outfitters" [Archive]

labor_days

11-02-2007, 03:32 AM

No, I think Paper has the right of it.

Astrid is sort of suburban (har har) hipster whose favorite band is Franz Ferdinand not Vampire Weekend. She still reads the NME, shops at Anthropologie and organizes her top 8 by haircut.

That's sorta the point. Astrid is dying to break out. She's on the cusp of experiencing things on her own rather than through the filter of perceived/detached cool.

Look at Astrid's absolute sense of awe at the shop owners sleeves, urbanity and worldliness. She's literally left speechless. When Astrid walks into the store for the first time her eyes pop, she's in a tizzy; she can't believe she can touch these things. It's a tactile experience for her.

Certainly, Astrid is hipper than the other kids listening to MCR at her school. But she's not the sort of hipster we negatively associate with the guy with his back against wall at the Jay Retard show, hating on the new Boxcutter pressings.

paper

11-02-2007, 03:35 AM

I'm so grateful that Becca is always there to remind me that I'm an idiot. No, seriously. She calls me in stuff I should be called on. I get away with saying the stupidest shit. I feel guilty about it.

I am a hypocrite. I'll admit to it.

But, honestly, I see a difference between the hipster "look" and the hipster "attitude". It's a very tricky word, as is any term used to generalize a vast group of individuals. It's up there with "emo."

paper

11-02-2007, 03:36 AM

(But I love vampire weekend!)

labor_days

11-02-2007, 03:37 AM

But, honestly, I see a difference between the hipster "look" and the hipster "attitude".

That's what I was driving at. She has the look, not the walk.

Astrid is a bit naive, I think.

labor_days

11-02-2007, 03:38 AM

(But I love vampire weekend!)

Me too. Hope you got their last record. ;-)

esophagus

11-02-2007, 03:40 AM

Let me sum up, if I can.

The word hipster was really used for people who had a different lifestlye altogether than the mainstream. They loved culture and music, and fashion, all of that nice stuff. Much the same way as "emos" liked a certain type of music. Eventually the term hipster got warped to being something negative. Someone who believes themselves to be above the world, much the same way that "emos" became people who liked MCR and wrote poetry.

Astrid is a hipster in the purer sense of the word, in that she loves culture, and is grasping at something outside of the box she lives in, but is totally disconnected from the more diluted definition many of us know and use.

paper

11-02-2007, 03:40 AM

Definitely naive. Yeah. It's endearing.

Like me basically. I only recently got into Vampire Weekend. Just turned up in an iTunes search one day. But now they're not there anymore and I have trouble finding their stuff.

esophagus

11-02-2007, 03:45 AM

That's what I was driving at. She has the look, not the walk.

Astrid is a bit naive, I think.I'm not sure I would call her naive. Naivety kind of comes prepackaged with ignorance, and I wouldn't consider her to be ignorant of it in the least. It's not that she's really being naive about what she's getting into so much as she's going at it fresh, not having known a ton about it.

paper

11-02-2007, 03:49 AM

Because the book is too damn pretty to not have its own thread.

itsbecca

11-02-2007, 03:49 AM

paper

11-02-2007, 03:50 AM

Any theories as to where this supernatural element is going?

itsbecca

11-02-2007, 03:52 AM

No, I think Paper has the right of it.

Astrid is sort of suburban (har har) hipster whose favorite band is Franz Ferdinand not Vampire Weekend. She still reads the NME, shops at Anthropologie and organizes her top 8 by haircut.

...she's a hipster whether she's the negative connotation or not. The only reason it's negative at all is just because it's been attributed that by certain people. Although, she does look down on the small town life, which is negative in my book. But I attribute that to being a teenager more than a hipster. There's no doubt she is one though.

I also fail to see why ignorance is endearing... but I guess I've only read one issue with the character so I haven't had the chance to fall in love despite faults.

Moved my post here... is it apparent I'm not a big fan? I think it just reeks of some of the things I dislike about the "scene". I don't want to say that astrid is a particularly acid or rude personality, but there's still that palpable distate for those unlike herself. That self righteousness. As if a person has to have a tattoo to be enlightened or interesting. Give me a freaking break.

labor_days

11-02-2007, 03:54 AM

Astrid is a hipster in the purer sense of the word, in that she loves culture, and is grasping at something outside of the box she lives in, but is totally disconnected from the more diluted definition many of us know and use.

...she's a hipster whether she's the negative connotation or not. The only reason it's negative at all is just because it's been attributed that by certain people. Although, she does look down on the small town life, which is negative in my book. But I attribute that to being a teenager more than a hipster. There's no doubt she is one though.

Yes, but we are using the term hipster in the colloquial sense.

Such as when Josh pointed the "hipster" pants in the fashion thread, we all knew immediately what he was talking about.

I mean we can take it to mean something more negative if we want. But I don't really see it that way or think that was McKelvie's intention. So much as it was to show this girl in a sleepy town just dying to live in West Hollywood or Williamsburg but not quite ready yet for the experience.

Her world is changing though. (HA!)

I'm not sure I would call her naive. Naivety kind of comes prepackaged with ignorance

Hmm. I don't agree. Naive also means "having or showing a lack of experience".

edit: I don't think Astrid isn't a hipster. Only that she isn't the kind of cynical urbane hipstuer who spells it with a "u". :-D

paper

11-02-2007, 03:56 AM

I'm just saying it's impolite to limit a person to their label. It's dismissive.

The naive thing. It's not ignorance, per se. It's innocence. She hasn't been corrupted by the scene with which she's so enamored. And I think people who have gone through their teenage years can relate to wanting to be something just out of reach. We all know there's no place like home, but there's no drama in being resolved to that. The character has to make mistakes and grow.

paper

11-02-2007, 03:59 AM

I would just like to point out that Becca has a tattoo.

As do I.

Continue.

esophagus

11-02-2007, 04:01 AM

Hmm. I don't agree. Naive also means "having or showing a lack of experience".I agree. I'm just saying being naive can come with the same negative connotations we're saying being hispter can have. I don't think she doesn't get it for a lack of trying, so much as she lacks the means to figure it out.

paper

11-02-2007, 04:01 AM

I'm re-reading the issue to see how she relates to others. I don't recall and self-righteous behavior. But I'll look.

labor_days

11-02-2007, 04:04 AM

I think it's relative. A girl like Astrid wouldn't hang with the Junior Bloomsday crowd. The indie scene is very hierarchal and insular.

I mean I know dudes who would scoff at a Liars record as being too "mainstream". Some of these people are my friends...

But anywho, I think it's is a an important distinction McKelvie makes in giving Astrid the cool haircut but the townie awe when meeting the shop owner.

http://img26.picoodle.com/img/img26/6/11/1/f_subglam01m_e533a62.jpg

Ha, brilliant! SubGlam for top series of '07!

itsbecca

11-02-2007, 04:09 AM

I would just like to point out that Becca has a tattoo.

As do I.

Continue.

I do, but not to be used as a badge in a coffee shop to show others how awesome I am. I don't really understand how anyone could deny her niavete... the difference between her and the shop owner is leaps and bounds, even though she has a distinct style which leans towards the hipster scene. Why? Maturity. In the issue she pretty clearly takes on a motherly role, because she's see's Astrid as misguided, but understands her intentions.

The difference between me and you all is you can get over her teenage angst and I can't? I find the character to annoying to care about a story with her in the lead. I like the cigar smoking dog angel though. Lets see his story.

paper

11-02-2007, 04:09 AM

I hope we get to see some band action. I want to see what that looks like.

Oooh, maybe a sweet crossover with Scott Pilgrim!

itsbecca

11-02-2007, 04:12 AM

kahunablair

11-02-2007, 04:12 AM

.... I like the cigar smoking dog angel though. Lets see his story.
Indeed. My favorite part of the story.

itsbecca

11-02-2007, 04:13 AM

Indeed. My favorite part of the story.

High five kahuna. Just when I thought I was alone in the world.

paper

11-02-2007, 04:13 AM

Looks like a normal level of teen angst to me. It's the genre.

itsbecca

11-02-2007, 04:15 AM

Looks like a normal level of teen angst to me. It's the genre.

The teen agnst genre. Hm. I see why you all are so enamoured. Also paper, allow me to be creeped out that you have a crush on a high schooler. Just saying man.

labor_days

11-02-2007, 04:16 AM

I don't really understand how anyone could deny her niavete... the difference between her and the shop owner is leaps and bounds, even though she has a distinct style which leans towards the hipster scene. Why? Maturity. In the issue she pretty clearly takes on a motherly role, because she's see's Astrid as misguided, but understands her intentions.

Umm, didn't I say this in so many words in the other thread?

The shop owner wasn't flaunting her tats. Astrid was rudely staring out of curiosity and naivete!

McKelvie sorta exposes Astrid and her friend as...losers, of a sort. "Sometimes I check Facebook too", "I saved the galaxy again...on X-box".

Isn't this what the series is about; a teenager coming into her own, rather than merely copying her idols/pinups?

kahunablair

11-02-2007, 04:18 AM

I know I've busted some guys chops here (Paper and Labor mainly) about the "over-hype-ness" of this book, but I just want to say even though some parts of the book aren't for me, the art is fantastic!
That is the type of art my book would have if I ever decided to actually put a book together.

High five kahuna. Just when I thought I was alone in the world.
You're never alone madam!

labor_days

11-02-2007, 04:19 AM

From the mouth of an obvious fan. I don't understand why anyone's arguing that she's not... this...

Hmm...excepting I wasn't arguing the opposite. I did think Paper was on to something when he made the distinction between Astrid being a bit neophyte in contrast to the guys at Smart Bar on a Saturday. Yes, that I agree with.

itsbecca

11-02-2007, 04:24 AM

The shop owner wasn't flaunting her tats.

I just want to make clear that I know. Like I said I feel like she's mature in her choices and doesn't have anything to prove. I said coffee shop just because I had the book in my mind, but wasn't actually using the scene or implying anything about the characters in it.

Umm, didn't I say this in so many words in the other thread?

You did and I've since used you as support for my argument. I'm just... flabbergasted actually at the other side of this argument. Of course she's a hipster. Of course she's flawed. Of course she's lost and inadequate. One can like the character and still make those concessions. Just because you have a soft spot doesn't mean you have to chalk her up as perfection.

I feel like we both get it, but you like it and I don't. Although, I will contest that the writing is very good. There's so much you can get out of a very little statement. I'm just not interested in the story. Has he written anything else?

paper

11-02-2007, 04:30 AM

The teen agnst genre. Hm. I see why you all are so enamoured. Also paper, allow me to be creeped out that you have a crush on a high schooler. Just saying man.

You sunk my battleship. Classy move.

I'm 23 years old, not all that far removed from my high school experience. I knew girls that looked like that (or look like that now), and those were the girls I was attracted to. I even said "I'd have had". Past tense.

labor_days

11-02-2007, 04:30 AM

esophagus

11-02-2007, 04:32 AM

Has he written anything else?Just Phonogram as far as I know.

labor_days

11-02-2007, 04:33 AM

Just Phonogram as far as I know.

Which is almost as awesome as SubGlam. But a totally different book.

paper

11-02-2007, 04:33 AM

He drew Phonogram, but didn't write it.

(I'm not calling her perfect either. Sympathetic, yes.)

itsbecca

11-02-2007, 04:33 AM

Gotta be honest. Other than you're dislike for the book, Becca, I don't really see what you are arguing here.

Yup. Astrid is a hipster, relatively speaking. And yes again, she is naive and even rude (I will go that far).

I don't see anyone calling her out as perfection though (Maybe Paper. Because he wants to date her). In fact, I was pointing out all the things that mark her as a child...

(Perhaps, I should take more care in my postings. I'm a wee bit punchy after dinner tonight.)

I think maybe you don't see that I'm not trying to argue against you. The thing that got me riled up in the other thread is first people saying she wasn't a hipster. Then the backpeddling and saying "Okay she is but she's a GOOD hipster". It's just... all so crazy. And none of that was you by the by.

labor_days

11-02-2007, 04:37 AM

I may have misread the tone of your posts then, Becca. I thought you were coming down on the side of "Astrid is a fake" or some such.

Still punchy.

esophagus

11-02-2007, 04:38 AM

I think maybe you don't see that I'm not trying to argue against you. The thing that got me riled up in the other thread is first people saying she wasn't a hipster. Then the backpeddling and saying "Okay she is but she's a GOOD hipster". It's just... all so crazy. And none of that was you by the by.Assuming I play any part in what you're saying, I'm not so much calling her a "good" hipster. I'm saying she doesn't come off as full of herself as the hipster stereotype seems to say they should be. She's a hipster through and through.

paper

11-02-2007, 04:38 AM

I'm not going to agree to your prejudices, Becca. You can't label a character and then be done with it. There's such a thing as dissonance.

paper

11-02-2007, 04:44 AM

Ok, enough bickering. New topic.

How do we feel about Neil. I think he's an arse, personally. With sinister motivations.

And seriously...Scott Pilgrim crossover. Could it happen?

esophagus

11-02-2007, 04:48 AM

Ok, enough bickering. New topic.

How do we feel about Neil. I think he's an arse, personally. With sinister motivations. I'm 95% sure Neil spiked her drink, and yeah, just generally don't like him.

itsbecca

11-02-2007, 04:48 AM

I'm not going to agree to your prejudices, Becca. You can't label a character and then be done with it. There's such a thing as dissonance.

I guess you're more into philosophy then you think hm?

Besides I didn't just say one word to sum her up. Collate my posts and you'll have a nice paragraph I'm sure.

I have this strange feeling in the back of my head that I'm only a couple posts, between you and I, away from the "Then why don't you marry her?!" argument. I'm so down on the girl and you're just so damn smitten.

EDIT:

Ok, enough bickering. New topic.

Oh okay. Dissenting opinions not welcome. I'll take my leave from the thread.

esophagus

11-02-2007, 04:50 AM

I have this strange feeling in the back of my head that I'm only a couple posts, between you and I, away from the "Then why don't you marry her?!" argument. I'm so down on the girl and you're just so damn smitten.
I'm sure there are 100 characters out there that you like. It doesn't make you smitten to the point that you wouldn't say anything bad. Paper just likes the book, and you don't. There, it's done. I'm guessing the road you're heading towards isn't a good one.

itsbecca

11-02-2007, 04:53 AM

I'm sure there are 100 characters out there that you like. It doesn't make you smitten to the point that you wouldn't say anything bad. Paper just likes the book, and you don't. There, it's done. I'm guessing the road you're heading towards isn't a good one.

Whether I like the character or not really isn't the issue. What my issue is, and I've said it several times over, is that her faults are part of the character. I don't understand why one would so vehemently deny them.

paper

11-02-2007, 04:54 AM

What, dissonance? That's a screenwriting term. Or at least that's where I got it.

I never denied her faults...I just find them to be interesting character traits. I do disagree that she's arrogant though.

I guess I'm just being defensive because the consensus is that you're hating on the character so much.

I'm done arguing with you if that's alright.

itsbecca

11-02-2007, 04:57 AM

What, dissonance? That's a screenwriting term. Or at least that's where I got it.

I guess I'm just being defensive because the consensus is that you're hating on the character so much.

I'm done arguing with you if that's alright.

A dissenting opinion is one that differs. Or in this case one that is not welcome. Catch ya later alligator.

labor_days

11-02-2007, 04:57 AM

I don't understand why one would so vehemently deny them.Because Paper loves her...smoochie, smoochie.

:-)

Re: Neil

I dunno. I sorta liked the dude. Didn't get the feeling he spiked her drink though. Not too be rash or nothing, but there are cats smoking cigars in her dirty underwear. Sayin'.

p.s. Dave rules.

kahunablair

11-02-2007, 04:59 AM

After re-reading this thread, I have to laugh. Even though I personally don't have the connection with the characters, I know for a fact I'd be highly attracted to Astrid. Haha. I don't know why I find that so amusing but I do.
Think that explains why I'm back to being single again?

Ok, enough bickering. New topic.

How do we feel about Neil. I think he's an arse, personally. With sinister motivations.
I can't tell if he's going to go that obvious route or if he'll turn around and prove himself to be a good guy.

And seriously...Scott Pilgrim crossover. Could it happen?
Won't happen, but I'd buy it if it did.

conorkilpatrick

11-02-2007, 05:00 AM

Wow, you drive your brother home and you miss quite a bit of craziness, don't you?

esophagus

11-02-2007, 05:04 AM

Re: Neil

I dunno. I sorta liked the dude. Didn't get the feeling he spiked her drink though. Not too be rash or nothing, but there are cats smoking cigars in her dirty underwear. Sayin'.
a) Dirty shirts, get your facts straight. =p
b) I know you're right. This book isn't obvious enough for him to have spiked the drink. He really wouldn't have thrown it out there like that. It's just the snap judgement I made. I think he'll still turn out to not be so right for Astrid, but I'm sure he won't be as evil as I'm making him out to be.

labor_days

11-02-2007, 05:05 AM

Wow, you drive your brother home and you miss quite a bit of craziness, don't you?

It was horrible! Never leave us again.

There was yelling and disagreeing. And Becca nearly made Paper cry by teasing him with his misbegotten love for a teenage cartoon girl!

I'm scared. Kahuna, hold me.

paper

11-02-2007, 05:07 AM

Kwok asked a very innocent question. And then that happened.

I'd like to apologize for contributing to this lowest common denominator night on the forumz.

paper

11-02-2007, 05:08 AM

So will Astrid end up with Dave in the end? Or the smoking sphinx?

esophagus

11-02-2007, 05:17 AM

So will Astrid end up with Dave in the end? Or the smoking sphinx?Heh. Dave seemed so obvious I didn't even think of it. Maybe. It could work. Unless he's eatten by that ogre.

conorkilpatrick

11-02-2007, 05:31 AM

labor_days

11-02-2007, 05:34 AM

Dave...really? I don't think so. They seem more brother/sister than boy/girlfriend material.

Was there any reason to believe Dave fancied Astrid that way? I may have missed it if there was.

esophagus

11-02-2007, 05:37 AM

Dave...really? I don't think so. They seem more brother/sister than boy/girlfriend material.

Was there any reason to believe Dave fancied Astrid that way? I may have missed it if there was.Watch any movie and the two that start out as best friends go out and find love (Dave finds Olivia, Astrid finds Neil) and in the end they realize they only needed each other. I don't see it happening here because, well, again, too obvious, but it could happen.

labor_days

11-02-2007, 05:37 AM

Everyone just... everyone just play nice. Reading the thread straight through gave me a somewhat uncomfortable dog piling vibe, which I'm sure wasn't intended, but just... you know, be careful.

I feel like I should point out that I get the strong feeling that in a big brawl in the real world I get the feeling that Becca is coming out on top. ;)

We had some other posts in the review thread. The conversation continued from there.

For my part, I just didn't understand Becca. Which was my fault. I do apologize if it seemed we were piling on.

No bruised egos in discussin'. We're all full of shit to one degree or another.

'Sides we just talking SubGlam here.

http://img33.picoodle.com/img/img33/6/11/1/f_AstridDavem_4a64e75.jpg

No big fuss.

esophagus

11-02-2007, 05:38 AM

esophagus

11-02-2007, 05:39 AM

We had some other posts in the review thread. The conversation continued from there.They're all here now.

labor_days

11-02-2007, 05:39 AM

Watch any movie and the two that start out as best friends go out and find love (Dave finds Olivia, Astrid finds Neil) and in the end they realize they only needed each other. I don't see it happening here because, well, again, too obvious, but it could happen.

True enough, but usually there is some foreshadowing.

Again, did I miss it or did Dave not show any romantic interest in Astrid?

esophagus

11-02-2007, 05:43 AM

True enough, but usually there is some foreshadowing.

Again, did I miss it or did Dave not show any romantic interest in Astrid?No, not that I noticed. I really don't see it's happening, but I guess it's a thought. I hadn't tohught of it until Paper brought it up.

Was anyone else expecting Chris to be totally different, based off his first panel, than he turned out to be?

labor_days

11-02-2007, 05:46 AM

Was anyone else expecting Chris to be totally different, based off his first panel, than he turned out to be?

Of course! The book is partly about not taking things at face value; Astrid, Neil, the "cool" kids, the world, et cetera.

esophagus

11-02-2007, 05:54 AM

We've all discussed the hell about what this book is at it's core (being different, small town life, cliques, whatever), but I'm really interested to see how this plot develops. They've made it quite clear that the fantastical element is going to take the forefront here.

labor_days

11-02-2007, 06:32 AM

We've all discussed the hell about what this book is at it's core (being different, small town life, cliques, whatever)...

Sure, but not really what I was drving at.

I was trying to say it made sense within the book for Neil, Dave, Chris, etc to not be who we assume them to be at first blush.

When I first saw the preview art, I assumed Dave to be Astrid love interest. That doesn't seem to be the case so far.

I just assumed that would be the case. I was assuming Neil was going to be a dick or what have you. See where I'm going here?

esophagus

11-02-2007, 06:40 AM

Sure, but not really what I was drving at.

I was trying to say it made sense within the book for Neil, Dave, Chris, etc to not be who we assume them to be at first blush.

When I first saw the preview art, I assumed Dave to be Astrid love interest. That doesn't seem to be the case so far.

I just assumed that would be the case. I was assuming Neil was going to be a dick or what have you. See where I'm going here?I understood what you were saying, I was just bringing up an entirely new topic. Perhaps its my fault for not specifying so, but I agree, and just didn't think there was a whole lot more to be said on the matter.

labor_days

11-02-2007, 06:44 AM

Ah well, another misreading. You can take it bro.

Punchy. Punchy.

I gotta get some sleep.

drwally

11-02-2007, 08:29 AM

Fascinating thread to read from beginning to end, just lurking, haven't read the book, but reading this thread has not made me interested in reading it either. At the risk of being another someone who misreads Becca's comments (to defend Becca), I get the sense that this book is just not a place I really want to vist. I too have had my "hipster past" (when it was called something else, the clothes were different, but much of the attitudes many people describe were prevelant), and I really don't have much interest in re-visiting that scene. Kind of a "been there, done that, over it" attitude, maybe on my part. If that sounds "old hipster arrogant," so be it.

Show me a book about late 30 something or 40 something "hipsters" (contradictions, flaws and sympathetic characters, dog angels, the whole thing) and I'm there, but this one? Oh, I had my youth, it's best left to the young... My suburban/urban issues are long since processed, many ages ago...

humphrey-lee

11-02-2007, 09:12 AM

jamie-mckelvie

11-02-2007, 11:47 AM

Hey all,

I've been following the conversation here over the last few days and thought I'd sign up to answer a couple of questions and stuff.

Firstly, thanks to everyone for picking up the book. Even if you didn't like it, I appreciate that you tried it out.

To the question of Astrid being a hipster - I'm not particularly keen on labels, but I will say that part of being a teenager is trying to find your own identity. The clothes you choose to wear are kind of like a badge expressing a part of who you are or who you're trying to be. You can call that shallow but I think that's misunderstanding a fundamental part of that period in life for many people.

Although, she does look down on the small town life, which is negative in my book. But I attribute that to being a teenager more than a hipster.

That's absolutely what it is. Being a teenager in a small town can be a mind-numbingly dull experience, regardless of how attractive that lifestyle is to older people.

I think it just reeks of some of the things I dislike about the "scene". I don't want to say that astrid is a particularly acid or rude personality, but there's still that palpable distate for those unlike herself. That self righteousness.

I don't really see this in the book. There is of course the tribal nature of the teenager, sticking to those you identify with most. To ignore that in writing this book would be dishonest. You're also assuming that Astrid has no reason beyond difference to dislike certain people - it's shown when they enter the party that any sort of dislike goes both ways, and it's often more vocal from the other "side".

Besides, Astrid is attracted to Neil, at least to some extent, and he's pretty "unlike" her.

As if a person has to have a tattoo to be enlightened or interesting. Give me a freaking break.

Again, I'm not quite sure where you can see that in the book. Astrid's enthralled by Aubrey's work, but I don't see anything that says having tattoos makes Aubrey a better person.

Has he written anything else?

Erm, I just seem to be quoting you at the moment. Sorry. :D No, this is my first book. I've drawn Phonogram (with Kieron Gillen), Long Hot Summer (with Eric Stephenson) and a story in Four Letter Worlds (with Amber Benson), but this is my first step into the scary world of writing.

As for Neil - well, obviously, I'm not going to reveal where his character goes in the book, but it's been very interesting to read reactions to him.

Astrid and Dave - I think I might keep you guessing on that one, too. ;) Although as an aside, one of my favourite moments in early Buffy was that scene where the three of them sit together, each crushing on the person who doesn't feel the same way (or doesn't act like they feel the same way, or is a vampire) and feeling like they're going to die alone. That to me feels more realistic than the two lead characters getting together - at least, making it too easy for those characters to get together. Although that may be more to do with my abysmal love life as a teenager.

On the other hand - Dave is shy enough about his feelings to not reveal to the person how he feels. Except when drunk, and then he just kind of stutters and falls over.

DrWally - I have to confess I've actually been pleasantly surprised by the number of 30-40 year olds who took a chance on the book and found they liked it. You're right that it's not the audience I was writing for (which, I think, is me), but then "intended audiences" is as much a silly generalisation as thinking all "hipsters" are exactly the same.

Wow, I brought the post full circle!

mikegraham6

11-02-2007, 11:58 AM

Thanks for coming by and answering our questions!
I'm really looking forward to reading your book!

kahunablair

11-02-2007, 12:22 PM

Thanks for coming by and answering our questions!
I'm really looking forward to reading your book!

Indeed! Thanks Jamie for answering those questions, but most of all, thanks for answering them without taking anything we've said to personal.

Now for a wee little fanboy moment...
I love the art in the book, phenomenal job on that!

jamie-mckelvie

11-02-2007, 12:36 PM

Art is subjective. What works for one person might not for another, and as much as I'd like it if everyone loved my work, I know it's not going to happen! :)

kahunablair

11-02-2007, 12:47 PM

Art is subjective. What works for one person might not for another, and as much as I'd like it if everyone loved my work, I know it's not going to happen! :)

Well it's nice to see you be able to keep that outlook. I know I get more then a wee bit defensive when I throw my stuff out there.

I'm not going to lie, I wasn't sure about whether or not I'd continue picking the book up. I really didn't relate to the character, which is nothing against the writing. The artwork on the other hand is great. So I was on the fence.
The way you've handle yourself just now ensured I'll be keep buying the book for as long as you put it out.

paper

11-02-2007, 12:54 PM

Thanks for posting, Jamie.

Obviously I really enjoyed the book. Looking forward to the next issue.

I think this whole argument stems from two different perspectives on flawed protagonists. It's a warts and all kind of thing, and I liked the fact that it's an honest portrayal of teenage life. Not appreciating the hometown, Dave making foolish choices to impress the girl at the party, Astrid's hero worship of Aubrey. I think a lot of teen protagonists are granted a little too much wisdom off the bat, and not authentically. Here, Astrid has room to grow and change her mind. That's the journey.

Hopefully some of this makes sense. I haven't had my cereal yet.

kwok_talk

11-02-2007, 01:22 PM

Holy crap! I expected a few jokes here or there, but I didn't expect to wake up to an 8-page thread and showing of the author/artist himself! (Is this how Loki feels? ;))

A few comments:

-As a broad generalization, I would be ok with Astrid being classified as a hipster.
-According to wikipedia, I cannot be a hipster since I've taught Sunday School
-If Astrid was a real person and maybe a bit older, I would probably be somewhat attracted to her
-Coincidentally, I have the same pic as Labor's avatar as my desktop
-I'm maybe curious to check out Phonogram for the art now

itsbecca

11-02-2007, 01:53 PM

I don't want to derail any currently running topics but I wanted to quickly say:

I apologize for last night. I feel like I was emotionally drunk and now I'm experiencing the hangover. While I still have opinions about the book I did come off rather snippy in 90% of my posts so my getting pissed off that people (and by people I might mean paper) didn't discuss them. I even made a personal comment or two, and even though I beleive I meant them to be silly... jokes don't come off right to someone who's pissed off. Anyhow, after being here a couple months shy of a year I hope by now most of you realize it's not my character. So sorry.

Now. Onto the good stuff. I'm pleased, although a little embarrased, that Jaime came by. I guess I did attribute some very teenage things to the hipster quality. Since I'm still so close to that time of my life (22) there's a certain bad taste in my mouth for that sort of situation. Or maybe even personal embarrasement for when I was like that.

As I hope I've conveyed I love Aubrey and I love the relationship between Aubrey and Astrid. Also, the imaginary friends peaked my interest. So whether or not it was conveyed in this mess of a thread I was planning on following it.

jamie-mckelvie

11-02-2007, 02:09 PM

I think this whole argument stems from two different perspectives on flawed protagonists. It's a warts and all kind of thing, and I liked the fact that it's an honest portrayal of teenage life. Not appreciating the hometown, Dave making foolish choices to impress the girl at the party, Astrid's hero worship of Aubrey. I think a lot of teen protagonists are granted a little too much wisdom off the bat, and not authentically. Here, Astrid has room to grow and change her mind. That's the journey.

I think I'd agree with that. I have plans for the series beyond this first mini, taking the characters up to their twenties. If there was no room for them to grow then I'm sure I'd get bored way before then. ;)

Itsbecca - Please don't feel you need to apologise to me or be embarrassed! I'd much rather my book generated smart discussion than silence.

paper

11-02-2007, 02:11 PM

I'm sorry too, Becca. I see now where you were coming from. I think we were all a bit punchy last night, and I think it was an isolated incident. Let's just put this behind us.

paper

11-02-2007, 02:12 PM

That's great to hear, Jamie. This is going to be exciting to watch.

six-gun

11-02-2007, 02:23 PM

It's awesome that we got freaking Jamie McKelvie on our boards.

Crazy times ;)

fred

11-02-2007, 02:58 PM

I really enjoyed the first issue. I was looking forward to it for a long time and it didn't let me down.

Apparently, there was quite a discussion about it here last night. ;)

Astrid's "hipster" status - WHO'S SIDE ARE YOU ON?

mikegraham6

11-02-2007, 04:21 PM

drwally

11-02-2007, 04:45 PM

Yeah, I think this thread has turned out very cool. My impression reading the whole thread was that people were not so much arguing at each other, but maybe commenting "past" each other, and making many of the same points, even if it seemed there was huge disagreement superficially.

I totally agree with the best stories being "warts and all" and Jamie (thanks for stopping by!) comments about the tribal nature of the teenager, and how suburban life kind of primes young people to be a little dreamy eyed about "big city hipsterism." I speak from personal experience, and I think Becca, in a very gracious apology, does too. I can really share her outlook (and appreciate Paper's also gracious kind words in apology.)

So, as I stated, I have been down that road of youth finding their way, but am looking for other roads to go down. If Jamie's book can stir this much great discussion, it must be great, even if old odd me with the obscure tastes in things is maybe not rushing to pick it up - I hope many others do.

What I will pick up, when some old veteran "hipster" (warts and all, 20 year veteran of the urban hipster tribe, superficlal fashional life and all that) writes a book about my age range (late 30ish to 40ish). I do have a 40 year old friend, long time resident of Sacramento, who would probably love the book, I should recommend it to him. (He tends to see my bohemian SF life in my 20s through rose colored glasses).

But a book about aging 30ish to early 40 "hip and artsy" people? That's the one I want. But those guys all write superhero books...:)

labor_days

11-02-2007, 06:26 PM

What a totally awesome and stand up dude McKelvie is. For real.

labor_days

11-02-2007, 06:28 PM

My impression reading the whole thread was that people were not so much arguing at each other, but maybe commenting "past" each other, and making many of the same points, even if it seemed there was huge disagreement superficially.

That was mostly me last night. Colour me embarrassed.

I apologize for last night. I feel like I was emotionally drunk and now I'm experiencing the hangover. While I still have opinions about the book I did come off rather snippy in 90% of my posts so my getting pissed off that people (and by people I might mean paper) didn't discuss them.

I think Paper would have broken into tears had you broke out the, "why don't you marry her then", Becca. You know those writer types, so sensitive. ;-)

Yeah, it's really no big thing though. The forums are for discussing.

esophagus

11-02-2007, 06:33 PM

So, I just... Wow. Did that happen? Was Jamie McKelvie here? Oh man.

Jamie, thanks, you are awesome. I'll definitely be picking up every issue to come of this, and everything else you have under your belt.

I think my love of the character comes from her being me, just with boobs and a few other elements. Being 17 and growing up in a small town turns out just like that if you don't relate to everyone else there.

I too apologize for last night. I think we all got far more worked up than needed.

But yeah, in retrospect, the word "hipster" was used far too many times, whether arguing against or for the label. Astrid is an outcast teen, and I think that's more to the point.

kierongillen

11-03-2007, 10:28 PM

Normally having a quiet joy silently watching conversation about my old partner in crime's comic, I felt compelled to actually interject something.

She clearly isn't a hipster.

(Not least because "Hipster" is totally US and the term's completely alien in the UK, where Suburban Glamour is set.)

She may end up becoming one, but she certainly isn't right now. The only band we know she likes is MCR! This is anti-hipster - no hipster would ever admit to it, without a veil of irony. While the Emo thing other forums have applied doesn't sit right either, labeling small town alienated kids hipsters... well, is something the kids would love. They'd dream of being able to be hipsters, instead of being desperately uncool. Her fashion sense - while pretty decent in the world of comics - is, semiotically speaking, pretty much just teenage girl with a congenital distaste for the mainstream. There's nothing Hip about Astrid, and she knows it.

Or, in short: You can't be a hipster when you're living with your parents.

DrWally: Idly, the first series of Phonogram I did with McKelvie is about early-30-something's understanding their relationship with the art that made them. Memory vs History vs Nostalgia vs Overwritten caption boxes.

KG

labor_days

11-03-2007, 11:34 PM

She may end up becoming one, but she certainly isn't right now. The only band we know she likes is MCR! This is anti-hipster - no hipster would ever admit to it, without a veil of irony.

That's what I been saying, bro!

Astrid is just on that precipice when you start exerting your own identity, but yet still use the shorthand of a band shirt or wristband to set yourself apart. Everyone's sewed on a Primal Scream (or your favorite band du jour) patch on their jacket or colored in their Keds in Sharpie at some point.

I think McKelvie totally nails what it's like to be a kid looking beyond your own comfortable country life- just dying to experience all that life has to offer.

When I look at Astrid or Dave, I know them. Because I see myself in their awkwardness, insecurity and naivete. It's really quite remarkable how expressive McKelvie's designs are.

jamie-mckelvie

11-04-2007, 01:41 AM

Man, I can't even get away from Kieron in threads about my solo comic!

esophagus

11-04-2007, 01:02 AM

She may end up becoming one, but she certainly isn't right now. The only band we know she likes is MCR! This is anti-hipster - no hipster would ever admit to it, without a veil of irony. While the Emo thing other forums have applied doesn't sit right either, labeling small town alienated kids hipsters... well, is something the kids would love. They'd dream of being able to be hipsters, instead of being desperately uncool. Her fashion sense - while pretty decent in the world of comics - is, semiotically speaking, pretty much just teenage girl with a congenital distaste for the mainstream. There's nothing Hip about Astrid, and she knows it.
This is what I was trying to get at when I said she wasn't a hipster for lack of trying, just lack of knowledge. But of course, I lack the ability to put it so nicely.

horatio616

11-04-2007, 02:16 PM

"Why don't you marry her then?"

I had zero interest in the book, but reading all this has got me interested. I'm afraid, though, that I might have an experience similar to the one I had reading Strangers in Paradise. People kept telling me how much I would love it, but I found Katchoo unbearable and Francine was pathetic.

Not that I think that these books have anything in common except for the fact that they have females as the lead characters, but that's just what popped into my head while reading the thread.

jamie-mckelvie

11-04-2007, 03:12 PM

There's a 6 page preview here (http://mckelvie.wordpress.com/2007/09/01/suburban-glamour-colour-preview/) if you want to get a brief idea of the characters.:)

paper

11-04-2007, 03:21 PM

I really, really, really disliked the first pocket book of Strangers in Paradise. This is not that.

jamie-mckelvie

11-04-2007, 03:38 PM

I've actually never read SiP, so I can't comment either way!

fred

11-04-2007, 04:01 PM

I've got comments on a few different things.

First of all, Strangers in Paradise rocks. Suburban Glamour isn't SiP. They just aren't similar. Suburban Glamour is just about as similar to SiP as Wonder Woman is.

Not really, but I'm saying - the "it's a book with a female lead" thing doesn't really wash.

Secondly, I just read the book two more times. Mr. McKelvie should know that this is a HUGE compliment from me. I have the attention span of a chipmunk. I actually enjoyed it more each time. There's a bit more there than an initial scan will bring you. I did this because I wanted to make sure that I wasn't just pre-disposed to like this book. I wanted to make certain that I didn't like it because I expected to like it. I'm quite convinced now that I liked it because it was great.

Also, I wanted to REALLY look at Astrid to see if I could see what some of the people here did in her. Namely, is she a hipster? I'm firmly convinced that she's not and that I was right all along. Your tastes have to be contrived and designed as an affect to be a hipster, goth, emo, ****ing shriner whatever. She's just a girl from a small town that wants more. I can really relate to her. I grew up in a small town and knew that I wanted something else. I didn't know what it was, but I did know that it wasn't what I was seeing. This only further served to alienate me from the jackasses that were perfectly happy to get a job at the local paper factory and live upstairs from their parents for the rest of their lives. She's there where I was. She's not a ridiculous poseur trying to impress the "cool" people. It's Lanbern - there are no cool people. I think there's a lot more to be learned from her and related to as she comes of age if you get past the hair and the fact that she listens to MCR.

Also, I'll say it again. This is a really pretty book. Honestly, I'm not just saying this because the artist/author has been checking in. I love the pencils and the colors are spectacular. The color palette itself is a thing of beauty. Rarely do you find these colors being used in conjunction with one another. Really - I've almost bought prints. I probably will before it's done.

six-gun

11-04-2007, 04:10 PM

Good review Fred

itsbecca

11-04-2007, 04:14 PM

six-gun

11-04-2007, 04:19 PM

Does Astrid's hipster status really matter?

fred

11-04-2007, 04:23 PM

Does Astrid's hipster status really matter?

No, but the implicit dismissiveness in declaring her a hipster does matter. It's like if I ignored everything that you said because you were a "highschooler". I don't by the way (not that I really have to say that but I don't want you to get the wrong idea).

itsbecca

11-04-2007, 04:25 PM

Does Astrid's hipster status really matter?

At this point it's splitting hairs. The label itself never really mattered to me. Like I've said several times, the thing that irked me was trying to view her as without fault. There's no reason to, her faults are part of her character and part of her beleivability as a teenager. But then Paper said as much later... so it seems we're on the same side but arguments continue... for unknown reasons.

itsbecca

11-04-2007, 04:25 PM

No, but the implicit dismissiveness in declaring her a hipster does matter. It's like if I ignored everything that you said because you were a "highschooler". I don't by the way (not that I really have to say that but I don't want you to get the wrong idea).

I never said that. Now I'm starting to understand why I was so acidic the other night.

fred

11-04-2007, 04:26 PM

This is kind of funny. I feel like you two are jumping on what Horatio said, but in a way that doesn't even make sense. The parallel he was drawing was not in the content or tone of the two books. Rather he's saying that the territorial sort of attitude that people are displaying for Astrid here is similar to what admirers of SiP display for Francine. Both of your comments are a kind of ironic display of that defensiveness. I really wish you could step outside yourself for a moment and see that so that the acidity of the other night doens't come back for round two.

I get what you're saying on some level. I wasn't attacking Horatio, I was just pointing out that they're very different books. I've read the majority of SiP (still waiting to get ahold of the last book - so stupid but anyway) - so I thought I'd throw my two cents in.

Was I a bit defensive about it? Maybe I was.

fred

11-04-2007, 04:27 PM

I never said that. Now I'm starting to understand why I was so acidic the other night.

I wasn't singling you out. I wasn't attacking you. I don't think that I ever have and I'm not trying to start today.

itsbecca

11-04-2007, 04:27 PM

I get what you're saying on some level. I wasn't attacking Horatio, I was just pointing out that they're very different books. I've read the majority of SiP (still waiting to get ahold of the last book - so stupid but anyway) - so I thought I'd throw my two cents in.

Was I a bit defensive about it? Maybe I was.

A little. And paper basically said he hated SiP, which I think is pretty unnecessary since it has nothing to with what Horatios was saying.

itsbecca

11-04-2007, 04:29 PM

I wasn't singling you out. I wasn't attacking you. I don't think that I ever have and I'm not trying to start today.

I might be mistaken, but I think I was the only one on my side of things. I only say that to explain why I thought you were talking to me, but if you're not then things are peachy in my book.

six-gun

11-04-2007, 04:30 PM

I messed up my pre-order on the first few issues so I'm just going to wait for the trade.

Sorry Mr. McKelvie :o

paper

11-04-2007, 04:32 PM

I think there's a parallel to be drawn between SG and SiP. They're world's apart, but I think we can all agree that at least if you compare the first issue of SG to the first couple issues of SiP, you've got some particularly flawed characters. Beyond that it's subjective. I don't really respond to SiP the way I expected to. The same way that Becca is looking at Astrid with her flaws. I really do respect that. And I've mentioned those flaws. But that doesn't mean I have to dislike the character. I love flawed characters. So, I don't think I've been blinded to such things. They just don't bother me. And in some cases, they're in the pro column.

Maybe I presented my opinion unclearly. I don't...admire Astrid for her flaws. But I admire the choice to make her flawed, stemming from the dramatic irony inherent in reading a coming of age story. "I remember times like this. Soon she's going to learn how silly that is." I'm not looking for role models in my protagonists. I never meant to present the idea that Astrid is the ideal girl. Because what does that mean, anyway?

paper

11-04-2007, 04:34 PM

fred

11-04-2007, 04:36 PM

I might be mistaken, but I think I was the only one on my side of things. I only say that to explain why I thought you were talking to me, but if you're not then things are peachy in my book.

You may've been the only one. I can't remember and honestly this is a community that nearly always gets along so it was painful enough to read it through the first time.

In terms of dismissiveness, the word really is dismissive. We all have a preconceived notion of what someone is saying when they call a person that. It's in many ways like the code words that politicians are accused of using. They say one thing intentionally to create a whole backstory picture in people's minds.

I'm NOT SAYING THAT YOU DID THIS. (want to be really clear)

I'm saying that this word does this and all of this happens in the background whether or not it's intentional.

I'm also not trying to say that "hipster" is an inappropriate word that shouldn't be used. Some people are hipsters.

labor_days

11-04-2007, 04:54 PM

Hmm. SiP is my favorite series ever. And obviously, I dig on the SubGlam. But am at a lost to find any parallel between the two respective series.

Katchoo, Francince and David are very much adults. Granted, they may make stupid or impulsive decisions but there is no mistaking them as high schoolers.

Pointing out that both SiP & SubGlam are similar in that they contain flawed characters, is like comparing SubGlam to Crime Bible because Montoya isn't perfect either.

I'm terribly vexed by where this discourse has gone. I don't even know what we are talking about anymore.

itsbecca

11-04-2007, 04:54 PM

In terms of dismissiveness, the word really is dismissive. We all have a preconceived notion of what someone is saying when they call a person that. It's in many ways like the code words that politicians are accused of using. They say one thing intentionally to create a whole backstory picture in people's minds.

I do agree with that. I think the only way you can justifiably describe a character with one word is if it's an untalented writer and a flat character. Whether or not I like Astrid (as a person, not as a character in a story... if that makes sense to anyone) doesn't mean I think that of Jaime or Suburban Glamor. Just the fact that we can make pages and pages of discussion means there's rich depth there.

itsbecca

11-04-2007, 04:54 PM

I don't think I was making that big a stretch. Horatio said that in spite of the hype he disliked SiP. I was merely saying I was in the same boat. He was obviously making some kind of comparison, because he could have mentioned any number of books with that kind of hullabaloo surrounding them.

I might be wrong, since I am not him, but I don't think he was even talking about hype. He was talking about the sort of possessiveness for characters we fall in love with. I thought it was a pretty good parallel and really can't think of another one of the top of my head. Kind of even made an "Oh I get it" moment for me, because I'm very much endeared to the character of Francine.

fred

11-04-2007, 05:10 PM

I do agree with that. I think the only way you can justifiably describe a character with one word is if it's an untalented writer and a flat character. Whether or not I like Astrid (as a person, not as a character in a story... if that makes sense to anyone) doesn't mean I think that of Jaime or Suburban Glamor. Just the fact that we can make pages and pages of discussion means there's rich depth there.

I get what you're saying and I agree. I send you electronic make-up high-5s.

itsbecca

11-04-2007, 05:12 PM

But is Dave a hipster?

Pahahaha. Troublemaker.

fred

11-04-2007, 05:14 PM

Dave is awesome. He vomits on Olivia with such grace and dignity.

fred

11-04-2007, 05:14 PM

by the way, how the hell are we ever suppossed to drop this if it's going to bring Bendis around? ;)

paper

11-04-2007, 05:16 PM

I'm waiting to hear what Rob Liefeld says on the subject. Then this case will officially be closed.

labor_days

11-04-2007, 05:16 PM

I'm waiting to hear what Rob Liefeld says on the subject. Then this case will officially be closed.

Not if Rags Morales shows up.

fred

11-04-2007, 05:18 PM

Leifeld won't be able to comment digitally as he doesn't have wrists.

itsbecca

11-04-2007, 05:18 PM

Dave is awesome. He vomits on Olivia with such grace and dignity.

I actually, surprisingly even, really like Dave. He's more relatable for me personally. Should I be worried that I relate more to men then women? Possibly.

fred

11-04-2007, 05:18 PM

I actually, surprisingly even, really like Dave. He's more relatable for me personally. Should I be worried that I relate more to men then women? Possibly.

or I the opposite? I slept last night and I will again tonight. ;)

jamie-mckelvie

11-04-2007, 05:19 PM

Also, I'll say it again. This is a really pretty book. Honestly, I'm not just saying this because the artist/author has been checking in. I love the pencils and the colors are spectacular. The color palette itself is a thing of beauty. Rarely do you find these colors being used in conjunction with one another. Really - I've almost bought prints. I probably will before it's done.

While the colour scheme was my choice, I have to give full credit to Guy for implementing it. He did such a great job.

jamie-mckelvie

11-04-2007, 05:21 PM

I messed up my pre-order on the first few issues so I'm just going to wait for the trade.

Sorry Mr. McKelvie :o

As long you buy it in the end. :D

six-gun

11-04-2007, 05:23 PM

But is Dave a hipster?

This is getting crazy

six-gun

11-04-2007, 05:24 PM

As long you buy it in the end. :D

of course :)

(10)

fred

11-04-2007, 05:25 PM

While the colour scheme was my choice, I have to give full credit to Guy for implementing it. He did such a great job.

I wasn't really ever sure how that fully worked - if the artist decided on things like that or the colorist did. Is this the usual method or did you just have a really distinct vision for the look of this project?

Beautiful, by the way.

fred

11-04-2007, 05:26 PM

This is getting crazy

Yes, I nearly logged in as Bill Clinton to reply but I have agreed not to do that anymore.

paper

11-04-2007, 05:28 PM

I don't think Tony Stark, Hero has much to add either. Though I'm sure he considered it.

jamie-mckelvie

11-04-2007, 05:29 PM

Is your mum a hipster?

That one goes out to the whole room.

fred

11-04-2007, 05:30 PM

more than Astrid is

paper

11-04-2007, 05:31 PM

Fred mentioned the prints earlier. I'm really considering the Astrid and Dave print from Jamie's blog.

paper

11-04-2007, 05:32 PM

Is your mum a hipster?

That one goes out to the whole room.

I'll allow the thread title to speak for itself. Ha.

jamie-mckelvie

11-04-2007, 05:33 PM

I wasn't really ever sure how that fully worked - if the artist decided on things like that or the colorist did. Is this the usual method or did you just have a really distinct vision for the look of this project?

Beautiful, by the way.

I suspect I take more control over it than most people. I write pretty extensive colour notes for Guy, and made some suggestions (the offset colour in some panels, etc), but that makes it sound like he had less input than he does. But I had very definite ideas about how I wanted it to look.

fred

11-04-2007, 05:37 PM

Fred mentioned the prints earlier. I'm really considering the Astrid and Dave print from Jamie's blog.

yeah, I nearly bought that one myself.

itsbecca

11-04-2007, 05:37 PM

Fred mentioned the prints earlier. I'm really considering the Astrid and Dave print from Jamie's blog.

I would buy a plushie cigar smoking angel/space/dog/thing if one were ever to become available.

fred

11-04-2007, 05:40 PM

I suspect I take more control over it than most people. I write pretty extensive colour notes for Guy, and made some suggestions (the offset colour in some panels, etc), but that makes it sound like he had less input than he does. But I had very definite ideas about how I wanted it to look.

nice. thanks for the info.

jamie-mckelvie

11-04-2007, 05:43 PM

This ad was my first attempt at the colour scheme I had in mind (http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1105/532394820_5843cac6b8_o.jpg). I coloured this one myself.

valoharth

11-04-2007, 06:18 PM

FINALY! I caught up with every one on this subject, when I started to read this it was only 10 pages, the bam its up to 15! lol!

I read SubGlam a week or two ago and I was quite indiffrent about it, I have a feeling thats its going to get better and I'm going to like it at the end of it all. However, thanks to this thread I'm thinking I'm going to have to pull it out and read it again when I get off of work, I think I missed a bunch of nuance in the story. I really like what Fred said about small towns and wanting to get out, that I really relate with meanings how in highschool I was really into punk rock (still am, if you know who Patrick Nortian is then you'll get an idea of what I'm like:).

I have to say though some of the things that really leaned me to the negative side is the color of the book, it's good most of the time, but it kind of gives me a headache is some parts. And the thing that really rolled my eyes was the two lines about saving the world and getting on myspace. Really felt pushed for me, but then again I'm not in the whole teen age group anymore so IDK if that is natural.

The thing I thought was amazing though was the paper that this is printed on, for some reason just holding it in my hands was really enjoyable and made the read really fantastic, I don't know why, I've never notice print paper before but for some reason the paper really fits this book. Yea you can call me a dork now :P

fred

11-04-2007, 06:19 PM

This ad was my first attempt at the colour scheme I had in mind (http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1105/532394820_5843cac6b8_o.jpg). I coloured this one myself.I remember seeing that. You can definitely see the end product in there.

fred

11-04-2007, 06:20 PM

I really like what Fred said about small towns and wanting to get out, that I really relate with meanings how in highschool I was really into punk rock (still am, if you know who Patrick Nortian is then you'll get an idea of what I'm like:).

thanks valoharth

labor_days

11-04-2007, 06:32 PM

This ad was my first attempt at the colour scheme I had in mind (http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1105/532394820_5843cac6b8_o.jpg). I coloured this one myself.

I was sold by the panel of Astrid & Dave holding up the map; "Spelled N-O-W-H-E-R-E".

esophagus

11-04-2007, 06:41 PM

I think we need to argue more. I like getting to be internet friends with famous people (famous in my world).

But seriously, I don't think I can say much more about loving the book. It was pretty. Astrid is me (I'm not a hipster, so there's my say on the matter). Writing is great. Etc. Way to go Jamie.

jamie-mckelvie

11-04-2007, 06:44 PM

I have to say though some of the things that really leaned me to the negative side is the color of the book, it's good most of the time, but it kind of gives me a headache is some parts. And the thing that really rolled my eyes was the two lines about saving the world and getting on myspace. Really felt pushed for me, but then again I'm not in the whole teen age group anymore so IDK if that is natural.

Maybe I should have one of those photosensitive epilepsy warnings on the cover. ;)

Writing this sort of thing is a difficult balance. On the one hand writing a teenage book *without* referencing pop culture is kind of silly, on the other hand it can come across as too much.

For what it's worth, I've had mail from teenagers who've said those are their favourite lines, or say "that's just like me!" So I dunno. I try to write naturalistic dialogue, although I'm not sure I always succeed.

jamie-mckelvie

11-04-2007, 06:48 PM

NB Not trying to discount your reading of the book, though, Valoharth!

paper

11-04-2007, 06:49 PM

I feel like Facebook is pretty central to a lot of people in this generation. It's easy to get sucked into Facebook since it's such a hub. I know I've been guilty of it.

valoharth

11-04-2007, 07:00 PM

NB Not trying to discount your reading of the book, though, Valoharth!

No problem, I'm going to read through it again when I get off of work today. I really think its just my taste coming through, maybe I'm getting a little out of touch :) I know in High School I would never admit to an atractive girl that I was at home playing video games all night (which was usualy the case) even if I was best friends with her.

And just because I wasn't able to get into the argument earler, So what the big deal if she's a hipser or not, your whoever you want to be! If some one says the want to be Scene then thats what they are, if they want to be Punk Rawk they are punk rawk, if they want to be a Cowboy, well then they can be a Cowboy! Its not like their is some application process :) lol, sorry for bring it back up going to my corner now.

valoharth

11-04-2007, 07:06 PM

I feel like Facebook is pretty central to a lot of people in this generation. It's easy to get sucked into Facebook since it's such a hub. I know I've been guilty of it.

Yea I know I was a myspace junky, I love facebook but alas only a few of my friends are on it. But I guess I can see that it is natural to talk about social networks (watch valoharth backtrack a bit here) especaly kids in a small town. Alot of the "emo/scene" kids I know and use to work with are all on them (the whole reason I joined myspace) and it makes sense that some one who whats to reach out to a much bigger world would want to spend a lot of time on it, much like I did in Highschool with ICQ (awh the good all days of the random button). And I did talk about ICQ and the people I met on there with my friends... so yea it makes more sense now.

paper

11-04-2007, 07:08 PM

I have tried for years to be a cowboy, but no one has accepted me in chaps.

fred

11-04-2007, 07:19 PM

I would accept you in chaps.

Minds out of the gutter - I meant that in a very pure way. If Pol wants to become Hopalong Paper, then I'm all for it.

horatio616

11-05-2007, 02:57 AM

I don't think I was making that big a stretch. Horatio said that in spite of the hype he disliked SiP. I was merely saying I was in the same boat. He was obviously making some kind of comparison, because he could have mentioned any number of books with that kind of hullabaloo surrounding them.

I don't know how much of this came across in my post, but what I was meaning to say that I had a similar visceral reaction to Katchoo that Becca had to Astrid and that I could see a similar thread to this one developing from the discussion of SiP. (Hope you were able to follow that really long sentence.)

I haven't read it so I can't really speak on anything else about it. Speaking of SiP, is there a spiritual successor to that book out there? One with more likeable protagonists preferably...

horatio616

11-05-2007, 03:05 AM

I am not a hipster but I am friends with some...

esophagus

11-05-2007, 03:48 AM

Maybe I should have one of those photosensitive epilepsy warnings on the cover. ;)

Writing this sort of thing is a difficult balance. On the one hand writing a teenage book *without* referencing pop culture is kind of silly, on the other hand it can come across as too much.

For what it's worth, I've had mail from teenagers who've said those are their favourite lines, or say "that's just like me!" So I dunno. I try to write naturalistic dialogue, although I'm not sure I always succeed.I can see where that would be tough. Reading the book was like a day in my life, or going to one of the high school parites I've been too. Very real life scenarios. Sometimes the dialogue does come on thick (see: MCR reference), but these are references that you need to have to be able to relate to the public. I'm probably just upset because I'm a music elitist, who was hoping for something a little more likeable.

benjaminsimpson

11-05-2007, 04:10 AM

This thread and the ensuing discussion has really got my intrest piqued. I'll make sure to pick this up on Wednesday.

conorkilpatrick

11-05-2007, 06:32 AM

Of all the books to tear us asunder... I did not expect this!

Curse you, McKelvie!

esophagus

11-05-2007, 07:00 AM

Of all the books to tear us asunder... I did not expect this!

Curse you, McKelvie!157 replies... This got big. Way to make a book worth talking about.

jamie-mckelvie

11-05-2007, 12:21 PM

I can see where that would be tough. Reading the book was like a day in my life, or going to one of the high school parites I've been too. Very real life scenarios. Sometimes the dialogue does come on thick (see: MCR reference), but these are references that you need to have to be able to relate to the public. I'm probably just upset because I'm a music elitist, who was hoping for something a little more likeable.

That's part of the point, though. I don't like MCR all that much myself, but I know that honestly if I was back at school in [the town I grew up in that is in no way like Lanbern, oh no], there's a chance that I'd be into them.

I sneak a lot of my own musical taste in there, too, mind. Dave's wearing a Metric t-shirt, Astrid has Klaxons, Gallows, Ladytron and Blood Red Shoes posters, etc.

jamie-mckelvie

11-05-2007, 12:22 PM

Of all the books to tear us asunder... I did not expect this!

Curse you, McKelvie!

I'll fight you all!

fred

11-05-2007, 12:35 PM

Sure. Jamie's getting kind of confident. I think Bendis slipped him a knife. ;)

horatio616

11-05-2007, 01:59 PM

Hey let's start a thread about Alan Moore being a diva and see if he shows up.

Do you think his cauldron gets the World Wide Web?

horatio616

11-05-2007, 02:01 PM

I'll fight you all!

You're the second person to challenge all of us to a fight. Jonathan London threatened us a while back and we stood our ground! Collectively, we of iFanboy are very brave.

fred

11-05-2007, 03:04 PM

Do you think his cauldron gets the World Wide Web?

Probably not, but the snake would tell him. Then he'd fire up his 286 and flame us on usenet.

horatio616

11-05-2007, 03:16 PM

Probably not, but the snake would tell him. Then he'd fire up his 286 and flame us on usenet.

He'd have some choice words for us on his crystal ballcast.

I really should hush. I don't want to wake up with octopus arms or 42 fingers or whatever...

So back to SG: yeah, I'm going to read this now.

labor_days

11-05-2007, 03:21 PM

I sneak a lot of my own musical taste in there, too, mind. Dave's wearing a Metric t-shirt, Astrid has Klaxons, Gallows, Ladytron and Blood Red Shoes posters, etc.

Loved spotting those.

And I suppose Kwok is a hipster after all since he listens to the Klaxons. :D

paper

11-05-2007, 03:24 PM

There's an AFI poster in there as well. Interesting range.

fred

11-05-2007, 03:34 PM

It makes me feel really old to admit that I had never heard of MCR before this book.

that is all

kwok_talk

11-05-2007, 03:47 PM

Loved spotting those.

And I suppose Kwok is a hipster after all since he listens to the Klaxons. :D

Hm...and I kind of do like Metric. But I still failed the hipster qualification test on the hipster entry on Wikipedia by having taught Sunday School at a church.

fred

11-05-2007, 03:51 PM

It's like Christian Rock right?

You could be a Hipster Christian. (http://www.lyricsdepot.com/night-ranger/sister-christian.html)

valoharth

11-05-2007, 04:02 PM

Of all the books to tear us asunder... I did not expect this!

Curse you, McKelvie!

I'm suprised that this book has brought up such an interesting conversation! (wow thats a back handed complement if I've ever seen one) but really glad it was brought up because its' really got me excited to get the next issue!

jamie-mckelvie

11-05-2007, 04:07 PM

Hm...and I kind of do like Metric. But I still failed the hipster qualification test on the hipster entry on Wikipedia by having taught Sunday School at a church.

One of my best "Haha, maybe my job is quite awesome" moments was when I got to hang out with Emily Haines after one of their shows because of Phonogram.

kwok_talk

11-05-2007, 04:11 PM

It's like Christian Rock right?

You could be a Hipster Christian. (http://www.lyricsdepot.com/night-ranger/sister-christian.html)

For everyone's entertainment, here's the qualification list

The Hipster Handbook further defines a hipster by use of lists:

"11 Clues You Are a Hipster
1. You graduated from a liberal arts school whose football team hasn't won a game since the Reagan administration.
2. You frequently use the term 'postmodern' (or its commonly used variation 'PoMo') as an adjective, noun, and verb.
3. You carry a shoulder-strap messenger bag and have at one time or another worn a pair of horn-rimmed or Elvis Costello-style glasses.
4. You have refined taste and consider yourself exceptionally cultured, but have one pop vice (ElimiDATE, Quiet Riot, and Entertainment Weekly are popular ones) that helps to define you as well-rounded.
5.You have kissed someone of the same gender and often bring this up in casual conversation.
6. You spend much of your leisure time in bars and restaurants with monosyllabic names like Plant, Bound, and Shine.
7. You bought your dishes and a checkered tablecloth at a thrift shop to be kitschy, and often throw vegetarian dinner parties.
8. You have one Republican friend whom you always describe as being your 'one Republican friend.'
9. You enjoy complaining about gentrification even though you are responsible for it yourself.
10. Your hair looks best unwashed and you position your head on your pillow at night in a way that will really maximize your cowlicks.
11. You own records put out by Matador, DFA, Definitive Jux, Dischord, Warp, Thrill Jockey, Smells Like Records, Saddle Creek, and Drag City."
12. You have downloaded R. Stevie Moore videos and have attempted to enjoy them.

"11 Clues You Are Not a Hipster
1. You teach Sunday school.
2. You use hair spray and wear pleated pants or pastel dress suits.
3. You are a big fan of the suburbs and vinyl siding.
4. You have a special 'spill shirt' that you wear when you eat dinner at night.
5. You like to watch college football.
6. You read novels with raised lettering on their covers.
7. You eat at Popeye's on a regular basis.
8. You listen to the Dave Matthews Band while driving in your SUV.
9. You wear holiday-themed sweaters with Santa Clauses, jack-o'-lanterns, and snowflake patterns knitted onto them.
10. You work in an office building that has a man-made pond and a fountain in its front lot.
11. You consider Jim Breuer to be a comic genius."[6]
12. You know nothing of R. Stevie Moore and would not listen to him given the opportunity.

fred

11-05-2007, 04:16 PM

According to this, I am neither.

I am nothing. Wikipedia will be mentioned in my note.

valoharth

11-05-2007, 04:20 PM

Okay from that list above I'm only half hipster, not fully there, guess I need to get rid of my love for college football and that damn spill shirt! lol

Still I think that one of the ways you can tell if your a hipster is if you get most (or any) of the jokes in the webcomic www.questionablecontent.net

I think were just one joke short of a Jeff Foxworthy skit!

fred

11-05-2007, 04:24 PM

You might be a hipster if .....

you spend more time at starbucks than you do at home.

Yup, I should've left it alone. I think it's funny that nobody has advanced a "person a is a hipster" argument for well over 100 posts now and we're still on it.

jamie-mckelvie

11-05-2007, 04:24 PM

I'm an elbowster.

fred

11-05-2007, 04:27 PM

I'm an oldster.

I've only heard of the Klaxons from Kwok.

I thought MCR was an English car or an abbreviation for microwave.

I know AFI, but only because I like to make fun of their stupid unavoidable bullshit music.

kwok_talk

11-05-2007, 04:54 PM

I'm an oldster.

I've only heard of the Klaxons from Kwok.
.
I heard of the Klaxons from Labor. So I'm at least a half-removed hipster or something like that.

six-gun

11-05-2007, 04:55 PM

I heard of the Klaxons from Labor. So I'm at least a half-removed hipster or something like that.

Labor is the great at that

drwally

11-05-2007, 05:52 PM

According to Dr. Kwok's survey, I'm a veteran of the oldster hipster scene (now retired, me and the scene), but more Old School-Gender-Sex-Geographic specific, which makes me now veering into a terribly PoMo direction... (oops, did I just the word "PoMo" in a sentence?). Oh those kids, we are all quite the same, I think, my band is holier than thou's band, and all that. "No Acid Wash Allowed" was posted at the entrance of the tiny club I went to 1988-90. An old aquaintence, a real live punk anarcho queer freak, used to say, "Oh, everybody's in punk fashions, but it's just another excuse to spin under the disco ball and cruise for sex." I miss him.

DrWally: Idly, the first series of Phonogram I did with McKelvie is about early-30-something's understanding their relationship with the art that made them. Memory vs History vs Nostalgia vs Overwritten caption boxes.

KG

Thank you very much for the recommendation, I think you have me pegged. Sounds exactly like an evening in my best friend D's salon in San Francisco, party of 3-7 (various people coming and going variously), "Tea at D's." I visit everytime I get a chance to return to SF, and the atmosphere in the room is...just as you describe it: Memory vs History vs Nostalgia vs Overwritten caption boxes, with D cracking a terribly wonderful but awfully crude dirty joke if the atmosphere ever gets too thick.

As for Alan Moore cauldron's, snakes, and usenet, be careful of what you wish for, folks. Mr. Moore would probably enjoy an evening at D's... maybe because nobody knows him there. Sadly, D complains not so many come by as much since he and everyone else helped each other to become clean and sober, but survival was at issue, irony or ironies.

Yes, I think Phonogram would be the book for me, much more so than SubGlam, based on reading this thread (is it hipster-ish to use the abbreviation SubGlam?). My dearest friends visit D's salon, but alas I am the only comic reader. They all have interesting tastes and knowledge of all manner of things, with this one exception (comics).

Here in Tokyo I am surrounded at work by Brits that do nothing but prattle on about football.:)

esophagus

11-05-2007, 07:37 PM

11 Clues You Are a Hipster
1. You graduated from a liberal arts school whose football team hasn't won a game since the Reagan administration. (If you replace liberal arts, with high school)
2. You frequently use the term 'postmodern' (or its commonly used variation 'PoMo') as an adjective, noun, and verb.
3. You carry a shoulder-strap messenger bag and have at one time or another worn a pair of horn-rimmed or Elvis Costello-style glasses.
4. You have refined taste and consider yourself exceptionally cultured, but have one pop vice (ElimiDATE, Quiet Riot, and Entertainment Weekly are popular ones) that helps to define you as well-rounded.
5.You have kissed someone of the same gender and often bring this up in casual conversation.
6. You spend much of your leisure time in bars and restaurants with monosyllabic names like Plant, Bound, and Shine.
7. You bought your dishes and a checkered tablecloth at a thrift shop to be kitschy, and often throw vegetarian dinner parties. (is it wierd that I bought dishes and I don't own my own place? They looked fun)
8. You have one Republican friend whom you always describe as being your 'one Republican friend.'
9. You enjoy complaining about gentrification even though you are responsible for it yourself.
10. Your hair looks best unwashed and you position your head on your pillow at night in a way that will really maximize your cowlicks.
11. You own records put out by Matador, DFA, Definitive Jux, Dischord, Warp, Thrill Jockey, Smells Like Records, Saddle Creek, and Drag City."
12. You have downloaded R. Stevie Moore videos and have attempted to enjoy them.I'm 1/4 hipster.

Also, Jamie, I loved picking out the Klaxon, Metric, and Ladytron references. The others flew right past me. I'll have to go back and look for them.

fred

11-05-2007, 09:02 PM

2 Things I love:

1) That the list of "11 Clues You Are a Hipster" actually has 12 things on it

2) When someone asks an innocent question and the thread immediately turns into West Side Story. I woke up humming I Feel Pretty this morning.

kahunablair

11-05-2007, 09:52 PM

2) When someone asks an innocent question and the thread immediately turns into West Side Story. I woke up humming I Feel Pretty this morning.

I wake up that way every morning.

valoharth

11-05-2007, 10:05 PM

I wake up that way every morning.

I dont wake up like that, I usualy wake up with a blink 182 song in my head, nothing like anger and being annoyed to get the blood flowing in the morning!

esophagus

11-05-2007, 10:08 PM

I dont wake up like that, I usualy wake up with a blink 182 song in my head, nothing like anger and being annoyed to get the blood flowing in the morning!Tangential much?

jamie-mckelvie

11-05-2007, 11:27 PM

DrWally, issue 1 of Phonogram is available to read online here (http://www.newsarama.com/ImageComics/Phonogram/01/Phngram01_full.html).

fred

11-05-2007, 11:28 PM

is that a bit torrent link mr. mckelvie? ;)

valoharth

11-05-2007, 11:50 PM

DrWally, issue 1 of Phonogram is available to read online here (http://www.newsarama.com/ImageComics/Phonogram/01/Phngram01_full.html).

Sweet like Chrismas, but its not for today is Guy Fawkes day. I needed something to read while I toil away at my job.

itsbecca

11-06-2007, 01:07 AM

2) When someone asks an innocent question and the thread immediately turns into West Side Story. I woke up humming I Feel Pretty this morning.

I got so angry I started snapping and pirouetting between posts.

jamie-mckelvie

11-06-2007, 01:11 AM

is that a bit torrent link mr. mckelvie? ;)

Heh, you've seen my little experiment,then?

fred

11-06-2007, 01:12 AM

Heh, you've seen my little experiment,then?

yeah, that was awesome by the way. Internet 2.0 - the Honor System.

fred

11-06-2007, 01:12 AM

I got so angry I started snapping and pirouetting between posts.

When you're a Jet, you're a Jet all the way.

esophagus

11-07-2007, 08:54 PM

Suburban Glamour Sells Out
Jamie McKelvie's SUBURBAN GLAMOUR #1, hot off the heels of his critically-acclaimed mini-series PHONOGRAM, has officially sold out at the distribution level...
Source: Broken Frontier (http://www.brokenfrontier.com/headlines/details.php?id=3168)

I'd like to believe we played some small part in this. =p

But seriously, way to go Jamie if you're still lurking around here.

labor_days

11-07-2007, 08:56 PM

Heh. I bought out my LCS last remaining copies of SubGlam.

jamie-mckelvie

11-07-2007, 09:55 PM

Source: Broken Frontier (http://www.brokenfrontier.com/headlines/details.php?id=3168)

I'd like to believe we played some small part in this. =p

But seriously, way to go Jamie if you're still lurking around here.

It actually sold out (at the distributors) within a week. But, sure, it's all down to you guys. :D

esophagus

11-07-2007, 09:59 PM

It actually sold out (at the distributors) within a week. But, sure, it's all down to you guys. :DOops, I guess I'm just a little slow with the news. Was it because they didn't expect there to be a big demand? Not to cut down on you, but I think that happens with a lot of new, non-superhero, books. Congratulations, regardless.

fred

11-07-2007, 10:11 PM

when does issue #2 of this come out?

esophagus

11-07-2007, 10:14 PM

when does issue #2 of this come out?SUBURBAN GLAMOUR #2 (AUG072034), a 32-page full color comic book for $2.99, is currently available for reorder and will be in stores in December.

1234567890

fred

11-07-2007, 10:16 PM

nice thanks

esophagus

11-07-2007, 10:18 PM

We just hit 6 pages. Wow. Whether we all like this book or not (which I'm pretty sure most of us did), it did something right to get us talking this much.

labor_days

11-07-2007, 10:28 PM

Under default viewing this thread is 21 pages.

http://img31.picoodle.com/img/img31/5/11/7/f_Image1m_6f20449.png

valoharth

11-07-2007, 10:34 PM

We just hit 6 pages. Wow. Whether we all like this book or not (which I'm pretty sure most of us did), it did something right to get us talking this much.

Wait, um we're talking about a book? I thought we were just talking about hipsters! Gawh, why didn't I get the memo! ;)

jamie-mckelvie

11-07-2007, 11:38 PM

Oops, I guess I'm just a little slow with the news. Was it because they didn't expect there to be a big demand? Not to cut down on you, but I think that happens with a lot of new, non-superhero, books. Congratulations, regardless.

It's always a risky business, pre-ordering. The initial orders were actually more or less double Phonogram's! But I guess even more people wanted it. Crazy.

jamie-mckelvie

11-07-2007, 11:40 PM

when does issue #2 of this come out?

Yeah, unfortunately there had to be a slight change in personnel between issue 1 and 2 which set things back. But I've seen the final pages of 2 and they look great (if I do say so myself ;)).

fred

11-08-2007, 12:14 AM

Yeah, unfortunately there had to be a slight change in personnel between issue 1 and 2 which set things back. But I've seen the final pages of 2 and they look great (if I do say so myself ;)).

Cool. Who's new?

fred

11-08-2007, 12:15 AM

It's always a risky business, pre-ordering. The initial orders were actually more or less double Phonogram's! But I guess even more people wanted it. Crazy.

nice. Is there a reprint of #1 coming?

esophagus

11-08-2007, 05:30 AM

Under default viewing this thread is 21 pages.

http://img31.picoodle.com/img/img31/5/11/7/f_Image1m_6f20449.pngI know, I'm just never a fan of the math involved. Bigger pages are easier.

jamie-mckelvie

11-08-2007, 12:34 PM

Cool. Who's new?

Matt Wilson. He's done a really great job of following Guy's colours from issue 1.

jamie-mckelvie

11-08-2007, 12:35 PM

And no, no reprint. As it's only a four issue mini we decided it'd be best to just keep people waiting for the soon-to-be-released trade.

fred

11-08-2007, 01:26 PM

very cool. thanks

kierongillen

11-12-2007, 10:53 AM

Yes, I think Phonogram would be the book for me, much more so than SubGlam, based on reading this thread (is it hipster-ish to use the abbreviation SubGlam?). My dearest friends visit D's salon, but alas I am the only comic reader. They all have interesting tastes and knowledge of all manner of things, with this one exception (comics).

It's an odd book, Phonogram. I'm actually amazed by the hatred that SubGlam (If i'm a hipster, SO BE IT) has engendered in some portions of the internet just becuse the characters have haircuts and go to shops. Phonogram I can completely understand why they'd hate it*, but SubGlam...

First issue's online, if you want to nose (http://www.imagecomics.com/onlinecomics.php), though the memory-stuff is only starting to creep in there. And it is the most over-written captionboxy.

God, we're self-critical.

Oh, Kitten's already linked to it. I can't be bothered deleting it. Man!

Catching up with this thread, I'm reminded of a line from Los Campesinos! single this year social-paranoia-party-anthem "You! Me! Dancing!" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj6SO_yKMe8)...

"Yeah, it's sad that you think we're all just scenesters - and even if we were, it's not the scene you were thinking of..."

Bless Los Camp.

KG

*Not that I'd have ever had written it any other way. Engendering hatred from some people was pretty much inevitable to do what we wanted to do. C'est la vie.

fred

11-12-2007, 04:45 PM

I was actually able to find another copy of Suburban Glamour this weekend.

YAAAAY

It's only sold out at Diamond. Check out your local store if you're interested.

fred

12-06-2007, 12:43 AM

So everyone's favorite hipster is back in comic shops this week. What did you all think? I loved it. I did about 4 minutes of this week's podcast on it.

paper

12-06-2007, 12:52 AM

Great stuff. Not sure how it's possible, but the art actually got better. Some really nice panels in this one. The page where Dave recognizes the shoe? Aubrey's story page? Wow.

fred

12-06-2007, 12:57 AM

I really like the panels with the solid background color and the alternate color glow around the characters. Very nice looking.

fred

12-06-2007, 03:06 AM

Suburban Glamour was my co-Book of the Week along with Northlanders.

http://thisweekincomics.com/thisweekstatistics.php

neb

12-06-2007, 04:18 AM

Great stuff. Not sure how it's possible, but the art actually got better. Some really nice panels in this one. The page where Dave recognizes the shoe? Aubrey's story page? Wow.

I think the art was better because the coloring was better. The colors seemed to have intensity and seemed darker than last issue. I'm not sure if it was the same guy as last time, but to me, the color was amazing.

That said, this issue was awesome. I'm really digging this book a whole lot more than what I thought I would.

paper

12-06-2007, 04:24 AM

Yep, new colorist. Matt Wilson.

You know I think it's a wider range of colors. There's some really bright stuff like those green sheets on Astrid's bed (really popped out at me). And then there's cool noirish lighting on other pages. The spectrum is gorgeous.

fred

12-06-2007, 04:37 AM

It's a great palette that is being used.

jamie-mckelvie

12-06-2007, 10:57 AM

Hey guys, really glad you liked the second issue. I think Matt did a tremendous job following up on Guy's first issue colours.

six-gun

12-06-2007, 04:15 PM

the trade's going to be awesome

paper

12-06-2007, 11:10 PM

I want to be in the letters column. What do I have to doooooo?

jamie-mckelvie

12-07-2007, 01:42 AM

Write me a letter at mckelvie@gmail.com

Would've helped if I had remembered to mention that in issue 2, eh?

luthor

12-08-2007, 12:39 AM

Read the second issue of SubGlam(as the kids are calling it). I liked it much better then the first. I would even go as far as to say, I'm looking forward to the next issue.

BUT...

There's still that too hip thing going on and that really bothers me.

paper

12-08-2007, 12:45 AM

Too hip? Like the characters or the book itself?

luthor

12-08-2007, 12:56 AM

Too hip? Like the characters or the book itself?

Both. I think I described it before as a band that tries so hard to be hip or cool that they just rub you the wrong way.

paper

12-08-2007, 01:11 AM

Hmm. I think if you strip away the fashion, these are just regular kids. There's no denying that design and fashion are central to this series but I think it's much, much, much more grounded than say, Phonogram. Which I think does just a bit too much posturing. SubGlam doesn't seem to be putting on airs in that sense.

conorkilpatrick

12-08-2007, 02:49 AM

Yeah, these kids aren't poseurs. They just are who they are.

jaflanagan

12-08-2007, 02:50 AM

I think that's just what kids are like now, if you were a teenager like 10 years ago or more. They're too young and hip and all that. But that's to me, cuz I'm old and cranky.

paper

12-08-2007, 02:55 AM

If they were wearing jeans and hoodies we wouldn't be having this conversation. Look at the dialogue. Unless you're counting the english slang, it's just like any kid you'd see represented. They talk about facebook and video games. I really do think the wardrobe is clouding people.

luthor

12-08-2007, 03:10 AM

I wish I could explain it better but it's not the way that the characters talk or the way the book looks...there's just a feeling to the book that makes it feel(and I can't think of any other way to put it then this) uncomfortably foreign to me. It's not really a thing, so much as a feeling.

six-gun

12-08-2007, 05:43 AM

I think that's just what kids are like now, if you were a teenager like 10 years ago or more. They're too young and hip and all that. But that's to me, cuz I'm old and cranky.

I would say that the only firm statement you can make about my generation is that we're all exceedingly eclectic

labor_days

12-08-2007, 07:06 PM

Perhaps Luthor is too far removed from that period in his life?*

Other than it's modern styling, I don't see anything too hip about SubGlam or it's characters. They're modern day kids is all.

I feel like focusing on Dave & Astrid's manner of dress, which is how young people dress these days anyway, at the expense of the story McKelvie is telling to be kinda silly.

Hell, half the 20-somethings in the bar I was at last night looked like Dave & Astrid. I suspect a real life Astrid would have her mind blown hanging in a big city club like the Darkroom (http://www.darkroombar.com/events.html). To say Astrid & Dave are "too hip" is a misunderstanding of their character.

*I don't mean to single you out Luthor. Just get that feeling in your criticisms of it. I don't begrudge your opinion though.

six-gun

12-08-2007, 08:35 PM

I feel like focusing on Dave & Astrid's manner of dress, which is how young people dress these days anyway, at the expense of the story McKelvie is telling to be kinda silly. [/SIZE]

I don't know about you guys, but I thought the Captain's choice of BDU's (battle dress uniform) in Infinite Horizon made him look too hip. I just couldn't get past that.

;)

luthor

12-08-2007, 10:46 PM

Perhaps Luthor is too far removed from that period in his life?*

That might be a fair criticism as the first issue really made me feel out of touch(although this one didn't as much).

jaflanagan

12-09-2007, 04:24 PM

That might be a fair criticism as the first issue really made me feel out of touch(although this one didn't as much).

Just because something doesn't matter to you, Labor, doesn't make it any less of a valid criticism from Luthor's part. If the way he perceives the characters is taking him out of the story, then that's a reason why it's not speaking to him, or perhaps he's unable to relate as much as you are.

I'm not saying I feel the exact same way as Luthor, but I certainly understand it, and I think it's a perfectly appropriate reason to not be into the story. Perhaps the modern (and British) teenage experience isn't as universal as it once was.

labor_days

12-09-2007, 04:56 PM

Just because something doesn't matter to you, Labor, doesn't make it any less of a valid criticism from Luthor's part. If the way he perceives the characters is taking him out of the story, then that's a reason why it's not speaking to him, or perhaps he's unable to relate as much as you are.Huh? Whatcha' talking about Flanagan?

*I don't mean to single you out Luthor. Just get that feeling in your criticisms of it. I don't begrudge your opinion though.

Not identifying with the chracters is absolutely a fair criticism. Saying Astrid's eye make up is a bit too stylish is not.*

*Not that Luthor is saying this either. I am speaking toward the general criticism of SubGlam being pretentiously hip.

jaflanagan

12-09-2007, 07:58 PM

Not identifying with the chracters is absolutely a fair criticism. Saying Astrid's eye make up is a bit too stylish is not.*

Well, if that's the reason why someone doesn't identify with something, then it is valid. And that's not necessarily a fault of the storyteller, but more the reader.

I mean, it's entirely possible that the reason I don't like Cassanova I'd based on as thin a judgement. Granted over time I have realized its for much more than just that, butni could see where someone's coming from like that

drwally

12-09-2007, 08:08 PM

Well, if that's the reason why someone doesn't identify with something, then it is valid. And that's not necessarily a fault of the storyteller, but more the reader.

I mean, it's entirely possible that the reason I don't like Cassanova I'd based on as thin a judgement. Granted over time I have realized its for much more than just that, butni could see where someone's coming from like that

Yeah, these are all really very fair points. My lack of enthusiasm in the characters in SubGlam #1 has more to do with my age, as in, Yes, I lived that, it is no doubt an accurate depiction of that age at that stage in life. And I am not very terribly interested in reliving that - all very personal reasons that have to do with me.

That said, I am interested in readiing SubGlam #2, and how the more fantastic elements of the story are woven in to the more "ordinary" life of the main characters, and what the author has to say by using that type of story...

(but haven't read #2 yet, hopefully will find time very soon)

itsbecca

12-09-2007, 08:14 PM

Yeah, these are all really very fair points. My lack of enthusiasm in the characters in SubGlam #1 has more to do with my age, as in, Yes, I lived that, it is no doubt an accurate depiction of that age at that stage in life. And I am not very terribly interested in reliving that - all very personal reasons that have to do with me.

That said, I am interested in readiing SubGlam #2, and how the more fantastic elements of the story are woven in to the more "ordinary" life of the main characters, and what the author has to say by using that type of story...

(but haven't read #2 yet, hopefully will find time very soon)

I feel exactly the same way, even though I'm still pretty close to that time of my life. That part of the story just doesn't interest me at all, but the fantasy side does. It starts to build heavily in this next issue so you'll see pretty quickly whether it grabs you or not. I'm digging it.

labor_days

12-09-2007, 08:21 PM

Well, if that's the reason why someone doesn't identify with something, then it is valid. And that's not necessarily a fault of the storyteller, but more the reader.

Well, but you see I think something like Astrid's eye make up or Dave's Futureheads poster is just a kind of short hand. It's the sort of thing that one can, if you are so inclined, pick up on and say "Ah, I have an idea of the way Dave or Astrid behave, speak and find important at this stage of their lives". It's an easy device of characterization.

Now, I suppose some may have found the 70's-era trappings of Freaks & Geeks off-putting (I did). And in turn, some may find the modern trappings of SubGlam a bit too removed as well. That's fine, right?

Yet, don't know if it's necessary in understanding or enjoying those stories. Which seems to be pretty universal- thinking your parents are jerks, longing to be your own person, ridiculous crushes, partying with friends, etc.

SubGlam #1 goes a long way in setting up these kid's lives. With that stuff out the way, #2 dials it down a bit. Think that may be why those turned off by the Facebook and X-Box references in ish #1 might have liked this second issue more.

I mean, it's entirely possible that the reason I don't like Cassanova I'd based on as thin a judgment. Granted over time I have realized its for much more than just that, but I could see where someone's coming from like that

Hmm. What was it about Cassanova you didn't like?

Not sure I am following you here.

drwally

12-09-2007, 08:39 PM

I feel exactly the same way, even though I'm still pretty close to that time of my life. That part of the story just doesn't interest me at all, but the fantasy side does. It starts to build heavily in this next issue so you'll see pretty quickly whether it grabs you or not. I'm digging it.

Cool. There is one significant difference in generation - when I was that age (summer of love, 1989), people I knew were basically the same in the way we related to each other, just substitute different names of bands, what kinds of clothes identify who is of a particular "scene" (maintream tastes vs. alternative, whatever). We had terminology debates about "what was cool," but looking back, it was pretty...yeah, young, not real deep. And the very few people who read their comics hid them.

THE DIFFERENCE - we really did not have a comic book showing us who we were then, now there is one. There was Love and Rockets, but I never read that, and many I knew didn't, and there really was no place to discuss it with other readers like here. So I find the discussion that SubGlam sparks very interesting. Let's call it - "An expanding medium moving beyond just the capes and tights, this comics thing, very interesting."

jaflanagan

12-09-2007, 10:33 PM

Well, but you see I think something like Astrid's eye make up or Dave's Futureheads poster is just a kind of short hand. It's the sort of thing that one can, if you are so inclined, pick up on and say "Ah, I have an idea of the way Dave or Astrid behave, speak and find important at this stage of their lives". It's an easy device of characterization.

Now, I suppose some may have found the 70's-era trappings of Freaks & Geeks off-putting (I did). And in turn, some may find the modern trappings of SubGlam a bit too removed as well. That's fine, right?

Yet, don't know if it's necessary in understanding or enjoying those stories. Which seems to be pretty universal- thinking your parents are jerks, longing to be your own person, ridiculous crushes, partying with friends, etc.

Being annoyed at the small bits of their characterizations or appearance is lame, but if those are clues that build up who the character is, and what they are like, then from that, you're not connecting with the characters, they're perfectly fine reasons to not like something. If that's why you didn't like Freaks and Geeks then you certainly understand, and I don't think this is any different.

Hmm. What was it about Cassanova you didn't like?

Not sure I am following you here.

I thought Cass was a douchebag. His stupid cool suit and dumb haircut turned me off instantly. Further reading indicated that my initial instincts were right, and I disliked it even more.

I did a whole show on this you know. It was in the "Follow Up" episode a week or so back.