Writers' Workshop

[paper]

I figured we might get some use out of a thread dedicated to non-comic writing. Whereas the writer/artist thread should be a hub for showcasing comic scripts and artwork and for creative teams to meet and network, this thread is for talking about the craft of creative writing in general. Short stories, novels, essays, fan fictions, dramatic writing.

***

Speaking as a writer myself, I don't think it's fair to look at a novel's readability for 50 years in advance. You can't gauge that. What you can do is write with your head and your heart and your gut, and do so genuinely. Write for someone you care about. Someone specific. And if you write from an honest place, that consistency is going to work for a lot of other people. Not everybody, but a lot of people. Your audience.

I'm reading Arabian Nights right now. I don't value spices nearly as much as some of these sailors do. But I get the important, timeless stuff. The human stuff. And that let's me understand the spice stuff.

You'll never write a novel that everyone is going to enjoy. The results would be uneven, and it wouldn't satisfy anyone totally. That's never something I'm going to consciously try and do. I'd much rather write something that profoundly touches a few people. And maybe that just means a couple dozen, hundred, thousands of people in my own lifetime, and then a half life over the generations.

But some kid's gonna find a dusty old copy of my book of short stories next to a tube of pogs and an iPod Touch, and he's gonna kinda get the the Snoopy stuff, sorta get the podcast stuff, shrug at the Dunder Mifflin reference, and walk away with the important stuff, and maybe never forget it.

[esophagus]

Speaking as a writer myself, I don't think it's fair to look at a novel's readability for 50 years in advance. You can't gauge that. What you can do is write with your head and your heart and your gut, and do so genuinely. Write for someone you care about. Someone specific. And if you write from an honest place, that consistency is going to work for a lot of other people. Not everybody, but a lot of people. Your audience.

I'm reading Arabian Nights right now. I don't value spices nearly as much as some of these sailors do. But I get the important, timeless stuff. The human stuff. And that let's me understand the spice stuff.

You'll never write a novel that everyone is going to enjoy. The results would be uneven, and it wouldn't satisfy anyone totally. That's never something I'm going to consciously try and do. I'd much rather write something that profoundly touches a few people. And maybe that just means a couple dozen, hundred, thousands of people in my own lifetime, and then a half life over the generations.

But some kid's gonna find a dusty old copy of my book of short stories next to a tube of pogs and an iPod Touch, and he's gonna kinda get the the Snoopy stuff, sorta get the podcast stuff, shrug at the Dunder Mifflin reference, and walk away with the important stuff, and maybe never forget it.I think that shows that a book is timeless. Voltaire's Candide is a book I always use as an example of this. It was written in 1759 and is steeped with references stuck in that timeframe. But you can read it today and wade through the goat-buying and the fashion sense, and grasp the timeless moral of the story. If a book can do that, make you take away what's important, your good. But, there are a ton of stories out there written full of Snoopy and Dunder Mifflin that will have absolutely no context or meaning in 50 years. Do I judge that story for not being timeless? No, not if it's quality work, but I do know it's missing that certain something.

[paper]

Doesn't hurt that Candide is funny as hell.

[horatio616]

Speaking as a writer myself, I don't think it's fair to look at a novel's readability for 50 years in advance. You can't gauge that. What you can do is write with your head and your heart and your gut, and do so genuinely. Write for someone you care about. Someone specific. And if you write from an honest place, that consistency is going to work for a lot of other people. Not everybody, but a lot of people. Your audience.

I'm reading Arabian Nights right now. I don't value spices nearly as much as some of these sailors do. But I get the important, timeless stuff. The human stuff. And that let's me understand the spice stuff.

You'll never write a novel that everyone is going to enjoy. The results would be uneven, and it wouldn't satisfy anyone totally. That's never something I'm going to consciously try and do. I'd much rather write something that profoundly touches a few people. And maybe that just means a couple dozen, hundred, thousands of people in my own lifetime, and then a half life over the generations.

But some kid's gonna find a dusty old copy of my book of short stories next to a tube of pogs and an iPod Touch, and he's gonna kinda get the the Snoopy stuff, sorta get the podcast stuff, shrug at the Dunder Mifflin reference, and walk away with the important stuff, and maybe never forget it.

I'm just speaking for myself as far as that goes. When I write something I write something that I would like to read, and I'm attracted to writing that is able to transcend time and speak to some universal truth even though it may be specifically linked to a certain time period. There's a point where too many references can be a detriment to that, at least as far as my enjoyment goes.

I guess that's why I'm such a Cormac McCarthy fan. His novels have this dreamlike quality and gives the reader only the vaguest sense of time and place.

[esophagus]

Doesn't hurt that Candide is funny as hell.Exactly, that's part of that certain quality. It finds something, despite the cultural references, to pull you into the bigger story going on. Candide used it's humor. It's the reason I'm such a big fan of authors like Vonnegut or Heller.

[paper]

I'm not really all that reference heavy either. I think the greater point is that...don't worry about transcending anything. Tell a story. Make someone smile or think about something a little differently. I think trying to blow the doors off the year 2057 is a mistake though. I kind of think that's bullshit anyway.

I went to this workshop with a novelist and a screenwriter, the writers behind a novel and film called....let's call it "The Schmice Storm." Sort of a master class. Another student asked the screenwriter, "Where do you start? Character or story? A detail?"

The screenwriter grinned. "I actually start with rhythm."

I almost got up and left the room right there. Because that's possibly the most pretentious thing I've ever heard. Think about it. How the hell do you start with rhythm? It's part of writing, sure. But you can't start with it. Because it implies that you have other shit.

There's magic to writing. It's wonderful, and it can effect people in a profound way. But this is not sorcery.

[horatio616]

Exactly, that's part of that certain quality. It finds something, despite the cultural references, to pull you into the bigger story going on. Candide used it's humor. It's the reason I'm such a big fan of authors like Vonnegut or Heller.

Funny you should mention Vonnegut. The second chapter of Atonement takes place during World War II and I got a similar feeling to the one I got reading Slaughterhouse Five.

Okay, I'm going to stop before I get a "why don't you marry it then?"

[horatio616]

I'm not really all that reference heavy either. I think the greater point is that...don't worry about transcending anything. Tell a story. Make someone smile or think about something a little differently. I think trying to blow the doors off the year 2057 is a mistake though. I kind of think that's bullshit anyway.

I went to this workshop with a novelist and a screenwriter, the writers behind a novel and film called....let's call it "The Schmice Storm." Sort of a master class. Another student asked the screenwriter, "Where do you start? Character or story? A detail?"

The screenwriter grinned. "I actually start with rhythm."

I almost got up and left the room right there. Because that's possibly the most pretentious thing I've ever heard. Think about it. How the hell do you start with rhythm? It's part of writing, sure. But you can't start with it. Because it implies that you have other shit.

There's magic to writing. It's wonderful, and it can effect people in a profound way. But this is not sorcery.

I like to start with a good line. A sentence where someone looks up from the book and goes, "wow, that's a really good line."

The Confessions of Max Tivoli by Andrew Sean Greer has a great first line:

We are each the love of someone's life.

It's simple, and probably obvious, but it made me look up from the book.

[dave-accampo]

Speaking as a writer myself, I don't think it's fair to look at a novel's readability for 50 years in advance. You can't gauge that. What you can do is write with your head and your heart and your gut, and do so genuinely. Write for someone you care about. Someone specific. And if you write from an honest place, that consistency is going to work for a lot of other people. Not everybody, but a lot of people. Your audience.

I'm reading Arabian Nights right now. I don't value spices nearly as much as some of these sailors do. But I get the important, timeless stuff. The human stuff. And that let's me understand the spice stuff.

You'll never write a novel that everyone is going to enjoy. The results would be uneven, and it wouldn't satisfy anyone totally. That's never something I'm going to consciously try and do. I'd much rather write something that profoundly touches a few people. And maybe that just means a couple dozen, hundred, thousands of people in my own lifetime, and then a half life over the generations.

But some kid's gonna find a dusty old copy of my book of short stories next to a tube of pogs and an iPod Touch, and he's gonna kinda get the the Snoopy stuff, sorta get the podcast stuff, shrug at the Dunder Mifflin reference, and walk away with the important stuff, and maybe never forget it.

Nice post. I agree with everything you say. I'm gonna expand my thoughts in a different way.

I had a few writing classes where we talked about how you use pop culture in your work. It's not just a matter of worrying about grounding the prose in pop culture, but if it can be understood by anyone. Which is why I understood Horatio's post about continuity.

For example: if I wrote the sentence: "Ryan's floor, littered with X-men comics, unopened bills and wadded-up clothes served as a topographical map of his life..." Then the X-men reference is fairly innocuous -- it's clear it's a type of comic book, and that's pretty timeless.

However, if I write, "Then Ryan went all Weapon X on us," I'm now writing a reference that can't be understood by everyone. However, does that mean it's not invaluable? I don't know. The above sentence is pretty bad (and Diaz doesn't do it that badly in Oscar Wao -- yet), but in the passage from Wao that I quoted earlier, he does load up a bunch of references without explanation. We do get that Oscar is a nerd, though.

But what's interesting to me is the effect this has on the overall narrative. Having Diaz's narrator speak in this Dominican Ghetto Nerd speak really grounds the entire narrative in this specific realm. I've no doubt Diaz thought about all of this as he wrote and has done all of this intentionally.

But, yeah, ultimately I don't think anyone should write for how they're going to sound 50 years down the road. But I do think writer's should be aware of their voice and how it might impact a diverse audience. The details, of course, should never get in the way of the Truth.

[esophagus]

I'm not really all that reference heavy either. I think the greater point is that...don't worry about transcending anything. Tell a story. Make someone smile or think about something a little differently. I think trying to blow the doors off the year 2057 is a mistake though. I kind of think that's bullshit anyway.

I went to this workshop with a novelist and a screenwriter, the writers behind a novel and film called....let's call it "The Schmice Storm." Sort of a master class. Another student asked the screenwriter, "Where do you start? Character or story? A detail?"

The screenwriter grinned. "I actually start with rhythm."

I almost got up and left the room right there. Because that's possibly the most pretentious thing I've ever heard. Think about it. How the hell do you start with rhythm? It's part of writing, sure. But you can't start with it. Because it implies that you have other shit.

There's magic to writing. It's wonderful, and it can effect people in a profound way. But this is not sorcery.I don't think the rhythm actually has any planning involved. If you're a good writer, writing a good story, then the rhythm comes. It certainly doesn't come before anything. And it certainly doesn't come from the "Tony Robbins if He Wrote Books" story. Blech. So yeah, what Paper said, just less eloquently.

[horatio616]

You mofos are too smart for me, but I appreciate getting to hear your thoughts on writing. Great posts, everyone!

[dave-accampo]

I'm not really all that reference heavy either. I think the greater point is that...don't worry about transcending anything. Tell a story. Make someone smile or think about something a little differently. I think trying to blow the doors off the year 2057 is a mistake though. I kind of think that's bullshit anyway.

I went to this workshop with a novelist and a screenwriter, the writers behind a novel and film called....let's call it "The Schmice Storm." Sort of a master class. Another student asked the screenwriter, "Where do you start? Character or story? A detail?"

The screenwriter grinned. "I actually start with rhythm."

I almost got up and left the room right there. Because that's possibly the most pretentious thing I've ever heard. Think about it. How the hell do you start with rhythm? It's part of writing, sure. But you can't start with it. Because it implies that you have other shit.

There's magic to writing. It's wonderful, and it can effect people in a profound way. But this is not sorcery.

OK, so I agree with the pretentiousness of that statement, BUT...I have to admit, I'm a little in the same camp.

It's not always a rhythm. And It's not ONLY a rhythm, of course, but like Horatio mentioned, I need that first line. And my first line may be a line born of rhythm. I can't honestly say how the line formed in my head, was it rhythm or words? I don't know. It was the words and the rhythm all at once, I suppose.

Thing is, I can't dissect it and analyze it. It's not sorcery, no, but it is the murky swamp of creativity, and I don't try to analyze it too much because it robs it of what magic it does have.

[dave-accampo]

We are each the love of someone's life.

That is a great first line. It's a big broad statement, but it really sets the tone for the whole narrative, doesn't it?

[esophagus]

OK, so I agree with the pretentiousness of that statement, BUT...I have to admit, I'm a little in the same camp.

It's not always a rhythm. And It's not ONLY a rhythm, of course, but like Horatio mentioned, I need that first line. And my first line may be a line born of rhythm. I can't honestly say how the line formed in my head, was it rhythm or words? I don't know. It was the words and the rhythm all at once, I suppose.

Thing is, I can't dissect it and analyze it. It's not sorcery, no, but it is the murky swamp of creativity, and I don't try to analyze it too much because it robs it of what magic it does have.The great first line is another payoff of the end product though. You can't go into a story and say "Okay, here's how I'll pace it" and then run from there and find your character development and storyline. You very well could think of a very general idea and write that first sentence and then BAM! everything falls into place. It gives you that rhythm and the idea of everything to go along with it, but you still have to have that little-idea-that-could to get everything started.

I think the point is that you don't need words or rhythm, you need that basic knowledge of what you want to get across and everything else will follow. I had a very basic story idea last year. I wrote it out in about four sentences. It has now warped it's way into what I hope will become a graphic novel. Stories will evolve, and with that the rhythm evolves, but it can't work the other way.

[dave-accampo]

The great first line is another payoff of the end product though. You can't go into a story and say "Okay, here's how I'll pace it" and then run from there and find your character development and storyline. You very well could think of a very general idea and write that first sentence and then BAM! everything falls into place. It gives you that rhythm and the idea of everything to go along with it, but you still have to have that little-idea-that-could to get everything started.

I think the point is that you don't need words or rhythm, you need that basic knowledge of what you want to get across and everything else will follow. I had a very basic story idea last year. I wrote it out in about four sentences. It has now warped it's way into what I hope will become a graphic novel. Stories will evolve, and with that the rhythm evolves, but it can't work the other way.

I know what you're saying, but -- and again, I'm just talking about my personal experience here -- sometimes I write to discover what I'm writing. I came from that school of writing, and I have written stories (not scripts so much, but prose stories), with very little idea of "what I'm going to write about." And my first published short story was sooo much about the rhythm -- I had just been reading "Sonny's Blues" by James Baldwin -- that I can honestly say that the rhythm was as much as part of the creation of my story as anything else.

Was it the rhythm or the words? I don't know. And in the end, of course, it doesn't matter. I just let it flow and it turned out to be a good story.

[paper]

Yeah, I wouldn't consider starting on a great first sentence as rhythm. That's in the crafting of the sentence of course, but what she meant was sort of ridiculous.

I don't want to get too far into it, but she used words like "vibration" and "frequency."

Here's another (actual, 100% true) exchange.

"What did you think about--"
"Oh, I don't believe in thought." She turns to the novelist. "Do you, anymore?"

He makes the polite "Hmmm" face.

Check, please. Seriously, I was asked to attend this for free. I want money back even if it wasn't my own.

[esophagus]

Yeah, I wouldn't consider starting on a great first sentence as rhythm. That's in the crafting of the sentence of course, but what she meant was sort of ridiculous.

I don't want to get too far into it, but she used words like "vibration" and "frequency."

Here's another (actual, 100% true) exchange.

"What did you think about--"
"Oh, I don't believe in thought." She turns to the novelist. "Do you, anymore?"

He makes the polite "Hmmm" face.

Check, please. Seriously, I was asked to attend this for free. I want money back even if it wasn't my own.Thought is for the mindless masses. Irony?

[dave-accampo]

Yeah, I wouldn't consider starting on a great first sentence as rhythm. That's in the crafting of the sentence of course, but what she meant was sort of ridiculous.

I don't want to get too far into it, but she used words like "vibration" and "frequency."

Here's another (actual, 100% true) exchange.

"What did you think about--"
"Oh, I don't believe in thought." She turns to the novelist. "Do you, anymore?"

He makes the polite "Hmmm" face.

Check, please. Seriously, I was asked to attend this for free. I want money back even if it wasn't my own.

BWA-HA-HA!

OK, yeah...that's a little too much crap. Heh.

[paper]

I've reached the point in my education where I'm having trouble keeping a straight face. Throughout that discussion I sat quietly making an awful lot of Jim Halpert-esque faces. To no camera in particular.

I hope I don't sound elitist or snobby here. I just have a problem when people try to mystify writing too much (or to take anything too seriously), to try and invent too much science for it. I'm guilty of hyperbolizing the writing experience, but when people start talking about rhythm and get really, really specific with structure (McKee) I just want to scream because that stuff scares people away. People think they can't write because it's this mythological thing. It's communication with the gods or something. And really, writing's whatever you want it to be.

All good writing is is being honest. If you see a tree and it represents your grandmother...fine. Write that down. But if you see a tree, and it's just a tree, that's what you should write. Don't lie and tell me it's the gnarled husk of your ancestral line, the oaken stillborn awaiting a spring which will never come. That's what a lot of people think they need to do to write. When all they need to say is, "I saw a tree this morning. Just one." All this voodoo and arithmetic is getting in the way of our club's mission statement. But any kid can and will remind you.

"Tell me a story."

That's why I want to write for kids. Really. Oh, that's cute, people say. Hardly, I think. Kids are dangerous. Life is terrifying because everything is bigger. People don't get sued in their books. They get swallowed by whales. The world is vast, and so many things can happen. Everything is blunt, final, severe. Or wonderful. And kids will not tolerate dishonesty or bullshit. They know when they are being lied to. That challenge inspires me.

[esophagus]

The above post is the reason why Paper is a good writer. Honesty and all.

[dave-accampo]

I've reached the point in my education where I'm having trouble keeping a straight face. Throughout that discussion I sat quietly making an awful lot of Jim Halpert-esque faces. To no camera in particular.

I hope I don't sound elitist or snobby here. I just have a problem when people try to mystify writing too much (or to take anything too seriously), to try and invent too much science for it. I'm guilty of hyperbolizing the writing experience, but when people start talking about rhythm and get really, really specific with structure (McKee) I just want to scream because that stuff scares people away. People think they can't write because it's this mythological thing. It's communication with the gods or something. And really, writing's whatever you want it to be.

All good writing is is being honest. If you see a tree and it represents your grandmother...fine. Write that down. But if you see a tree, and it's just a tree, that's what you should write. Don't lie and tell me it's the gnarled husk of your ancestral line, the oaken stillborn awaiting a spring which will never come. That's what a lot of people think they need to do to write. When all they need to say is, "I saw a tree this morning. Just one." All this voodoo and arithmetic is getting in the way of our club's mission statement. But any kid can and will remind you.

"Tell me a story."

It sounds like we're very much in alignment. I often worry I sound too elitist, too. ;)

My education has consisted of studying writing in school, but from a much more post-modern, touchy-feely way. Then I got out into the world and had to find out a lot about structure and, well, marketing, pitching, etc.

I think it's a big folly to put too much stock in any one thing. My knowledge has been assembled because I WANTED to be a better writer, and I just soaked up everything from writing groups, poetry readings, workshops, talks with editors, seminars, books, message boards...whatever I could get my hands on. So I'm not too serious about any one thing.

Incidentally, I had to drag it over from a defunct site, so it's not styled very well, but if anyone's curious about the "rhythmic" story I was referring to, you can see it here (http://www.habitformingfilms.com/ahbMain.htm).

This began as a free-write, and even in the construction of the first line, it was as much about the rhythm as anything else. And the rhythm set the course for the story. But again, that doesn't mean that's ALL I started with.

And there were no vibrations or frequencies involved.

I was wearing my tin foil hat, though.

[horatio616]

That is a great first line. It's a big broad statement, but it really sets the tone for the whole narrative, doesn't it?

Do you guys ever write what you think is a great first line or paragraph and then try to build a story out of that?

[horatio616]

It sounds like we're very much in alignment. I often worry I sound too elitist, too. ;)


Uhm, I hate to break it to you two but... :p

[six-gun]

I'm having fun writing some super-dense, kitschy Halo fan fic, here are my first two paragraphs:

Master Chief John 117, born 2511 on Eridinus 4 was once called Earth's Savior by papers on Earth, Reach and Mars. None of that really mattered anymore. Reach and Mars no longer existed in any relevant form. No, all that matters now is the M99 Stanchion Gauss-rifle in the Chief's hands, the bits of sand distorting his thermal scope and the Brute Chopper barring towards him.

It would be a hard shot, the Chopper protects most all of its rider's body and the sand its forward blades churn served as a smoke screen of sorts. A hard shot, so Chief fired twice. The first round missed, just barely, grazing the Brutes helm and shearing away part of the metal and bits of flesh. The Brute flinched; his chopper stuttered just a bit yet kept closing the gap between it and the crouching Spartan. The first shot missed; the second did not, entering just left of the previous round and pulling bits of brain matter with it as it passed through the back of the Brute's helmet.

[paper]

Do you believe in writer's block? If so, what do you do to stave it off?

[paper]

I'm having fun writing some super-dense, kitschy Halo fan fic, here are my first two paragraphs:

Master Chief John 117, born 2511 on Eridinus 4 was once called Earth's Savior by papers on Earth, Reach and Mars. None of that really mattered anymore. Reach and Mars no longer existed in any relevant form. No, all that matters now is the M99 Stanchion Gauss-rifle in the Chief's hands, the bits of sand distorting his thermal scope and the Brute Chopper barring towards him.

It would be a hard shot, the Chopper protects most all of its rider's body and the sand its forward blades churn served as a smoke screen of sorts. A hard shot, so Chief fired twice. The first round missed, just barely, grazing the Brutes helm and shearing away part of the metal and bits of flesh. The Brute flinched; his chopper stuttered just a bit yet kept closing the gap between it and the crouching Spartan. The first shot missed; the second did not, entering just left of the previous round and pulling bits of brain matter with it as it passed through the back of the Brute's helmet.

So far so good. Do they have newspapers in 2511?

[valoharth]

Do you believe in writer's block? If so, what do you do to stave it off?

I simply ask my self WWNGD? (What would Neil Gaiman do?) I read somewhere when ever he gets stuck with writer's block it usualy means he has something else boiling under the surface that needs to be written so he writes up a short story.

Me I like to work on several projects at once, I find it helps me get all of them done with minimal WB (but it still happens). I also find Blogging a good source of cureing WB, or just getting you to better at writing, because it forces you to write something.

[six-gun]

So far so good. Do they have newspapers in 2511?

Kind of, sort of. Bret Lewis's story in the Halo Graphic Novel has a throwaway mention of the "print is dead" argument but the context makes it seem that printed work is a luxury collectors item. However there is precedence that the term papers is used to describe news with written word

[horatio616]

Do you believe in writer's block? If so, what do you do to stave it off?

When I hit a wall it usually means I've failed to plan something out properly or the story has taken a different direction than I thought it would and I need to take a step back and rethink things.

[dave-accampo]

I figured we might get some use out of a thread dedicated to non-comic writing. Whereas the writer/artist thread should be a hub for showcasing comic scripts and artwork and for creative teams to meet and network, this thread is for talking about the craft of creative writing in general. Short stories, novels, essays, fan fictions, dramatic writing.

Good call. Enjoyed the discussion in the prose thread (I like organic threads), but it definitely was drifting.

Although people DID keep referencing books, so it was all related. ;)

[dave-accampo]

Carried over from the Prose Book thread...
Do you guys ever write what you think is a great first line or paragraph and then try to build a story out of that?
Yes, I definitely do.

Honestly, though, everything's different. Scripts, for me, don't tend to start with a line...lately I've been working more from a concept, laying out the story in my head before writing the first line. But when I write prose, it could be any number of things. Very often, it's just a first line, and I have NO idea where the story is going. I just write for bit and see what happens. There's a real freedom in that.

[valoharth]

Okay, So what does everyone like to write genre wise? Are you a pure Medevil Fantasy, SciFi, or Real Life?

Me, I like to take Fantasy and Folklore and put it into a modern context, I also like doing the whole Poe/H.P. Lovecraft Horror poetry and short story thing. I also dabble with Religion in a lot of my writing, more dealing with faith then a particular religion in general.

[valoharth]

Carried over from the Prose Book thread...

Yes, I definitely do.

Honestly, though, everything's different. Scripts, for me, don't tend to start with a line...lately I've been working more from a concept, laying out the story in my head before writing the first line. But when I write prose, it could be any number of things. Very often, it's just a first line, and I have NO idea where the story is going. I just write for bit and see what happens. There's a real freedom in that.

See I'm the totally the other way, I usually have everything planed out when my pen hits paper or fingers hit keyboard. However I have tied this method twice, well technically once and that’s with a comic that I have started to script out from scratch.

I started a short story a six months ago with the Idea that I just wanted to write something about Robert Johnson, the blues musician that sold his soul to the devil, and well I just sat down writing and bam I got something totally unexpected its still about him in a way but that’s only if your astute. It still needs some editing and a better ending.

[dave-accampo]

Okay, So what does everyone like to write genre wise? Are you a pure Medevil Fantasy, SciFi, or Real Life?

Me, I like to take Fantasy and Folklore and put it into a modern context, I also like doing the whole Poe/H.P. Lovecraft Horror poetry and short story thing. I also dabble with Religion in a lot of my writing, more dealing with faith then a particular religion in general.

If I'm writing prose, I tend to favor "real life" stuff -- straight "literary" fiction (though I don't like that term). That said, I've been trying my hand at dipping into genres. I wrote my first sci-fi short story a few years ago, but it was really more like...I dunno, if Chuck Palahniuk wrote a sci-fi story. More recently, I've been trying my hand at blending the real-life stuff with supernatural/horror elements, since I've been doing that quite a bit for my podcast series. So lately, any prose I've written (http://wormwoodshow.com/?page_id=8) has come out of THAT particular world (since I'm just having so much fun playing in that sandbox).

[tad]

I'm having fun writing some super-dense, kitschy Halo fan fic, here are my first two paragraphs:

I think it would be much stronger if you cut the first paragraph. Slowly bring the reader to realize that it's the future, etc. but start with the emotion or non-emotion of the moment of killing. It's about the characters, not the SF trappings.

[valoharth]

If I'm writing prose, I tend to favor "real life" stuff -- straight "literary" fiction (though I don't like that term). That said, I've been trying my hand at dipping into genres. I wrote my first sci-fi short story a few years ago, but it was really more like...I dunno, if Chuck Palahniuk wrote a sci-fi story. More recently, I've been trying my hand at blending the real-life stuff with supernatural/horror elements, since I've been doing that quite a bit for my podcast series. So lately, any prose I've written (http://wormwoodshow.com/?page_id=8) has come out of THAT particular world (since I'm just having so much fun playing in that sandbox).

Haha, I think the idea of your podcast is great, still havent downloaded it yet. I did want to do like a storytellers podcast much like how yours is but using Big in Japan's social podcasting thing so anyone could just tell a story and upload it to the feed.

[esophagus]

Do you guys ever write what you think is a great first line or paragraph and then try to build a story out of that?I do it all the time. In fact, I started one on the bus ride to school this morning. I was sitting and listening to music, pulled out a sheet of paper and wrote down "Some people say money is everything. Some people say happiness is everything. Me? I say everythings going to be all right." If you write one sentence that you find to be nothing short of brilliant, there's almost always an idea to pull from it.

[dave-accampo]

Haha, I think the idea of your podcast is great, still havent downloaded it yet. I did want to do like a storytellers podcast much like how yours is but using Big in Japan's social podcasting thing so anyone could just tell a story and upload it to the feed.

I hadn't heard of that before. I love it! Cool concept! I would totally check that out.

I guess the only downside is that you might get a lot of people who are terrible storytellers. But then again, you're probably not seeking a site like that if you're not into storytelling in some form.

[valoharth]

I hadn't heard of that before. I love it! Cool concept! I would totally check that out.

I guess the only downside is that you might get a lot of people who are terrible storytellers. But then again, you're probably not seeking a site like that if you're not into storytelling in some form.

Yea, I don't know if you would get any bad storytellers, might get some people who would throw their own podcast in there to get more hits. Thats a big downside to it.

Im just a huge fan of the whole Arabian Nights or Canterberry Tales idea, (my favorite Sandman TP was Worlds End).

I really think the art of the oral story isn't being persued as it should be! (theres a Being John Malvoich Joke in here somewhere just cant come up with one).

[dave-accampo]

I started a short story a six months ago with the Idea that I just wanted to write something about Robert Johnson, the blues musician that sold his soul to the devil, and well I just sat down writing and bam I got something totally unexpected its still about him in a way but that’s only if your astute. It still needs some editing and a better ending.

I love that kind of thing. I love that feeling of arriving at a destination you didn't know you were heading toward. There's something fascinating about letting your subconscious find the story for you, making weird connections you didn't expect.

I think the reason I said that my script writing tends to be more planned is because that's a lot of what you get in Hollywood. It's all about structure. Constructing the drama, right? So...I've slowly started to train myself to construct a framework. To me, it totally exercises a different side of creativity. I don't really judge one as being inferior to another. But I do notice the differences in how I write. And both methods impact each other. I'm not saying I don't think about structure at all when writing prose -- far from it. I just tend to start things a little differently.

That said, there are all different ways things have worked out. Since this is the writing thread, I'll get long-winded and give a specific example and hope it's interesting to someone. :D

The first screenplay I ever wrote, Bad Habits, I co-wrote with someone. I had written a lot of prose, but I had been in Hollywood for a bit, and it's all about scripts down here, so...I figured I'd give it a shot.

Driving home, I heard this story on NPR about a kid who was 18 and was being released from juvey for the last time. Next time, his social worker cautioned him, you'll go to prison.

I thought that was a great crossroads for a character. All he's ever known is the streets, but if he falls back into old habits, he'll go to prison for sure. So I was already thinking dramatic structure more than I ever had. But here's where the structure ends...I went home and wrote five pages. I essentially wrote the scene I had heard on the radio.

I didn't know what I wanted to do with it. So, I sent it to my friend (now long-time writing partner). He took the five pages, and wrote five more. And he completely threw me for a loop because where I expected him to follow Brian (the kid), he suddenly gave me a scene shedding new light on John (the social worker). That, of course, forced me to one-up him and write back about John's wife...and so on and so forth until we had a complicated ensemble drama. It was probably 60 pages in before we really realized that we had to figure out how the story would be structured. And we did.

So that's unlike anything else, but it was a great creative experience. I started with a concept and a vague plan, but the injection of another writer allowed us both to go a little wild with it for awhile before coming back and re-evaluating the plan and finding our story within it.

OK, so that may not be interesting to anyone but me, but I thought I'd share. :)

[esophagus]

I started a short story a six months ago with the Idea that I just wanted to write something about Robert Johnson, the blues musician that sold his soul to the devil

I've wanted to write something about a saxophone player since I read On The Road forever and ever ago. It just never happens though.

[jaflanagan]

Great thread guys.

I don't know if I believe in writer's block. I think there are excuses to avoid doing the hard parts of writing, which are the parts that don't come naturally. The biggest problem in writing for me seems to be forcing myself to get the work done when I don't know what to do.

[valoharth]

Great thread guys.

I don't know if I believe in writer's block. I think there are excuses to avoid doing the hard parts of writing, which are the parts that don't come naturally. The biggest problem in writing for me seems to be forcing myself to get the work done when I don't know what to do.

Good point, when I was in high school I started to write my own fanatsy novel (gawh is it ever horrid) and I tended to really get caught up in action scenes but never was able to resolve them. It took me having to sit down and say "Okay, your finishing this one way or another" and it seemed that it worked.

Oh and welcome back!

[tad]

Animation has trained me to write for time which amazes some writers. A "half hour" script has to be 22 minutes, no more no less. That, along with commercial breaks and the need to bring the audience back after them, is what gives me structure.

I rarely write with a partner although deadlines often require major rewriting that almost qualifies as a partner. But I enjoy the industry because it is so much of a collaboration. The best times of my career were at Disney features when I was in the story department with a bunch of other storymen who wrote through pictures and the early days of Disney TV Animation when it was common to have writers on staff. There's nothing like bouncing ideas off others working on a different part of the same project to get a fresh view. Conversely, it's exhilarating to brainstorm and help others with their stories.

As to Writer's Block, I find it a matter of procrastinating which isn't really a block. When I hit outlines where I don't have a place to go, I find I need to backtrack and rethink earlier action. I don't remember it ever being a problem.

[idave]

While you all seem to have a really good grasp on the actual process of writing, my question is where do you get inspiration? Lately when Ive been trying to write anything it comes out wrong because I'm not writing inspired and the informal style that I used to pride myself in while writing fiction is gone. What do you do to get your writing groove back on?

[dave-accampo]

I rarely write with a partner although deadlines often require major rewriting that almost qualifies as a partner. But I enjoy the industry because it is so much of a collaboration. The best times of my career were at Disney features when I was in the story department with a bunch of other storymen who wrote through pictures and the early days of Disney TV Animation when it was common to have writers on staff. There's nothing like bouncing ideas off others working on a different part of the same project to get a fresh view. Conversely, it's exhilarating to brainstorm and help others with their stories.

I love this. That's actually one of the reasons I set up Wormwood to run like a writer's room. I really love collaboration, and it's really fun to bounce ideas back and forth. Definitely very creatively fulfilling.

[dave-accampo]

While you all seem to have a really good grasp on the actual process of writing, my question is where do you get inspiration? Lately when Ive been trying to write anything it comes out wrong because I'm not writing inspired and the informal style that I used to pride myself in while writing fiction is gone. What do you do to get your writing groove back on?

Good question. Truthfully, I've got enough stuff stockpiled right now that I haven't run into this.

I think, for me, one thing I do is I don't write. I decide first that I want to write something, but then I back off. I go about my day, do the dishes, laundry, take a shower -- whatever. But in the meantime, things are percolating. And suddenly something connects in my brain. Sometimes it can be without an external stimulus, or sometimes it can be a news story, a conversation with a friend, etc. If I've opened myself up and said "I am going to write something," then I notice that everything around me becomes potential material.

But it's interesting that you've also said that anything you tried to write has come out wrong. So it sounds like the problem isn't that you don't have stuff to write, but that you're censoring yourself because you don't feel it's coming out right.

I go back to my "shitty first draft" process for that. You've got to let yourself just write, and not worry about if it's coming out right or not. You can always re-write it later.

[valoharth]

Animation has trained me to write for time which amazes some writers. A "half hour" script has to be 22 minutes, no more no less. That, along with commercial breaks and the need to bring the audience back after them, is what gives me structure.

I rarely write with a partner although deadlines often require major rewriting that almost qualifies as a partner. But I enjoy the industry because it is so much of a collaboration. The best times of my career were at Disney features when I was in the story department with a bunch of other storymen who wrote through pictures and the early days of Disney TV Animation when it was common to have writers on staff. There's nothing like bouncing ideas off others working on a different part of the same project to get a fresh view. Conversely, it's exhilarating to brainstorm and help others with their stories.

As to Writer's Block, I find it a matter of procrastinating which isn't really a block. When I hit outlines where I don't have a place to go, I find I need to backtrack and rethink earlier action. I don't remember it ever being a problem.


I've been wondering about writing for animation, its extreamly intersting to me because I really haven't heard anything about it. I think the only things I've heard are from the guy who did Dextor's Lab, and Clone Wars (his name escapes me).

I have a question Tad, where do you start off with a project, do you have the script done and the work from there with drawing the characters and how the look, or do you have how the characters look then make story boards and then go into the script? or whatever, I would assume that it starts out the same way any play movie or tv show would but then again I really wouldnt know lol. Oh one more, you said you worked for Disney how do you approce an already licenced character in animation especaly since Disney is known for more "children" orianted audiance.

[tad]

While you all seem to have a really good grasp on the actual process of writing, my question is where do you get inspiration? What do you do to get your writing groove back on?

Writing for the sake of writing can be tough. You want to produce something wonderful but nothing wonderful is coming to you. Then just do "exercises" to limber up and prepare. Dave mentioned doing the one where you take any book, copy the first line, close the book and continue writing a story based on that line. Or take something from someone's sig. Just write a scene.

If your problem is that you're trying to recapture magic... forget it. Either use Dave's shitty draft technique or another exercise. Purposely write in a style that isn't yours. Be a character, like a crusty wagon train cook tellin' a yarn 'bot them fellas from the future. Write a page from the diary of a Victorian woman on safari whose best friend was taken by an ape man. She's horrified and jealous. Take a fairy tale and write it for robots. The point is not to worry about your old casual style. You'll have a new style.

[tad]

where do you start off with a project, do you have the script done and the work from there with drawing the characters and how the look, or do you have how the characters look then make story boards and then go into the script? or whatever, I would assume that it starts out the same way any play movie or tv show would but then again I really wouldnt know lol. Oh one more, you said you worked for Disney how do you approce an already licenced character in animation especaly since Disney is known for more "children" orianted audiance.

For some of the ins and outs of the creative process, visit my cobwebbed site, Hellboy Animated. (http://HellboyAnimated.typepad.com) Go into the archives and start at the first posts where all the interesting stuff is.

An animated show can be started by a writer who teams up with an artist or is teamed up with an artist by the studio once they like the pitch. The most important elements are characters, relationships and what kind of stories you'll be telling. Spongebob could have succeeded drawn in a variety of styles. We'll never know. Generally you pitch, if successful you are asked to write a bible and script. The bible describes the show in detail and the script demonstrates how it will all come together.

Using a Disney licensed character can make the job easier or harder. The characters exist and usually have backstories, you have to pitch the way they'll work in an ongoing series. For feature spinoffs it's frustrating and thankless. I recently learned John Lassiter hates what we did with Buzz Lightyear. Their original idea was that Buzz was based on a straight GI Joe cartoon. But Disney didn't want GI Joe. They wanted a broader comedy. I started in features, I have friends working in features but we had to produce the equivalent of 13 feature films in a third of the time they had to make the movie. Welcome to my world.

Right now I'm doing something unique in my career. It's a longshot but I'm having fun. I'm taking old, old ideas that Cartoon Network already owns and using them as jumping off points. Shows are written completely different today with different expectations. It's kind of like those writing exercises I wrote about above, except I get to work with a really cool artist for the pitch.

For example, this isn't one I'm doing, there was an old show called The Impossibles. (Someone Google it and post an image). They were superheroes undercover as a rock and roll band based on The Monkees but with the personalities of the three stooges. Go figure.

Okay, in this case I'd really go far from the original but I'd keep the core: superheroes working for the government undercover as a rock band. But I'd say the band existed first and got powers from a government accident. The working for the government might stay or be ejected, depends on the stories and the adversaries I want them to fight. Part of that decision would come from the tone of the series. The end result might be something like The Amazing Joy Buzzards (http://www.amazon.com/Amazing-Joy-Buzzards-1/dp/1582404984) or a cleaned up Gorillaz.

The reason I'm not creating original properties is that the company I'm currently working for only wants "work for hire" projects that don't require them putting in money. They get paid for producing the show but have no rights. Not as lucrative but there's no risk.

[six-gun]

How would you suggest I change the first paragraph Tad?

[conorkilpatrick]

Eliminate it completely. Start with the action and have that reveal to the reader the details.

[six-gun]

Eliminate it completely. Start with the action and have that reveal to the reader the details.

okay, you guys will hate the details though ;)

[tad]

Conor's right, cut it completely.

But when you add details into the action, don't make them meaningless game related jargon (unless you're only writing for Halo gamers). And not everything needs to be set up in the first paragraph.

As a non-Halo player :eek: I'm not sure what is meant by Brute, Spartan and chopper in this context. All of those have alternate meanings in my world. Not everything has to be explained at once but hide the exposition in the action or the feelings of the characters.

Again, Halo ignorant so I'm just making stuff up here to give you the idea. Next paragraph:

"He had waited a half hour to make sure the Brute was alone but now the second sun was up and he was baking inside his armor. The damaged recirculator couldn't handle the temps and the bug's smell was leaking in. He nearly gagged as he searched its body for ammo."

Storywise, there's a sense of the situation - He's in a war of some kind, there's the potential for enemy backup, he is working with damaged equipment and is scavenging so he's probably working on his own. It's hot.

SF wise - he's not on Earth because there's two suns. A Brute is an alien, possibly an insectoid alien. I don't need to know the type of gun he carries. The numbers mean nothing to me. The next piece of action could be him moving on. The threat is over, there's time for reflection and some more natural exposition.

[esophagus]

How would you suggest I change the first paragraph Tad?I'd mix the two into each other. Let the reader gradually figure things out.

ie: It would be a hard shot, the Chopper protects most all of its rider's body and the sand its forward blades churn served as a smoke screen of sorts. A hard shot, so Chief fired twice. He knew he could do it. He was Earth's savior, talked about anywhere from Reach to Mars..

Hope you don't mind my editting, just trying to get my point across. Doing it that way may make him sound a little full of himself though, and not having read much into the Halo U, I couldn't tell you if he actually is.

[dave-accampo]

Not adding much here, but I think both Tad and Eso have very good comments.

I'm not really all that familiar with the Halo stuff, but I can get the drift if I'm dropped right into the action. I'd guess I'd also kinda want to know what Brute Chopper looks like. Not saying a long passage of details, but something that I can land on and quickly associate with...an alien in a vehicle...? Give me something to look at through Chief's eyes, and I'll be good.

Then as Tad mentioned, keep going and give me a sense of what's at stake for this guy. Is this just another day at the office, picking off aliens? Or is this a dire situation, where he needs help fast?

That is probably where you were going with this anyway (you only listed the first two paragraphs, so I dont' know what you intended); I'm just letting you know what would draw me in.

[six-gun]

Good ideas guys, I'l try and get some more work done on it.

[paper]

Well, it's November. Is anybody doing NaNoWriMo? Anybody know anybody doing NaNoWriMo?

I really wish I could, but it's just not in the cards this year. I'm thinking of doing it in April.

[esophagus]

I'd never even heard of that until now. At this point in the game, I don't have the time, especially now that I'd be playing catch up.

[kahunablair]

I've never heard of that before. I almost thought you made NaNoWriMo up at first.
That's an awesome idea!

[paper]

It's a whole crazy operation. People have little counters and bar graphs. It's nuts.

*adds this to the list of things to talk about on the podcast.*

[dave-accampo]

I, too, had not heard of it. Just read up a little. Sounds fascinating. It's almost exactly the type of thing I need to do to get a novel completed.

Alas, I've been too busy scripting Wormwood, i'm sorta tapped out. I'm jonesing to write some shorter fiction right about now. And I've got a couple of more high-concept pitches that need treatments.

[paper]

Hey have you ever used any of these online writers' communities?

I was looking into a place called authornation.com just to have somewhere to get feedback on my writing and to network. Wondering if you've had any experience.

I used to be a member of something like this. Long time ago though. We're talking freshman/sophomore year of high school, so that's...7 or 8 years ago. It was fantasy/science fiction based. I liked writing epic fantasy back then, believe it or not. It's kind of cool, but for a workshop experience to work over the internet you need to really get to know the people. You don't need to be friends, really. But get an idea of what they're about. And on an online forum you've got a huge mix of people with a huge mix of experience levels. So, you have to be careful about which set of advice to take.

I'll take a deeper look at it though.

Do you have access to a writing group that meets in person? Doesn't have to be a college course. But physically meeting with people on a regular basis with the sole intent of talking about writing is the way to go.

[six-gun]

I knew someone involved in one of those fantasy writing groups, it was kind of wierd

[esophagus]

I used to play a text-based roleplaying game, that was fairly similar to a writing group. Posts ranged from "So and so: Hai. *hug*" to a page of writing about picking up a glass of water. You really learned from everyone around you, and the game became an epic story of your character's life. You have to look around for whose style you like, and whose advice you'd take. For a while I was one of the guys writing paragraphs about simple things, when I realized (on my own) that there's a much simpler way of writing, and you can still come off as intellectual. Yeah, semi-similar situations, same moral I guess.

I think what we have on the forums here is a pretty good thing.

[paper]

The way the online workshop worked: Basically, you get points for every critique you write of another writer's story. When you have a certain number of points you get to cash them in and post one of your own stories. I think there was a template for the reviews to keep it uniform.

[horatio616]

Do you have access to a writing group that meets in person? Doesn't have to be a college course. But physically meeting with people on a regular basis with the sole intent of talking about writing is the way to go.

No, but I've looked into it. Where I live is tiny (10k people in the city and surrounding area), and all there is is a community college. The closest place is probably Lexington KY which is 2 hours away.

When I was a freshman in college, lo, all those many years ago, my English professor approached me to write something with the intent of publishing. He helped write a sci-fi story (used to be a Ben Bova and Foundation series fan) that I submitted to Amazing Stories. Somehow between the two of us we missed a rather large plot hole and the story was rejected, but at least I got a page-long rejection letter. I had a creative writing teacher try to talk me into submitting a story that I wrote for her class, but I never took her up on it. Basically those two professors are the only people--besides my brother, who studied film and sfx at the San Francisco Academy of Art--that I have to critique my writing. It's very tough to find like-minded people out here in the 'sticks' so I'm probably going to join one of these communities eventually.

Do you ever worry about theft when posting writing online? Not that anyone would be interested in stealing my ideas, but that seems like a practical concern.

[dave-accampo]

Do you ever worry about theft when posting writing online? Not that anyone would be interested in stealing my ideas, but that seems like a practical concern.

I've seen that concern come up a lot. Honestly, in my experience, it's not worth the worry.

If it's the actual full body of work -- let's say it's prose -- then you do have a copyright from the moment you put it down on paper (even if it's not as powerful as what you get from submitting it to the copyright office).

On the other hand, if you have a super cool concept...well, it's honestly likely that something similar has already been done by someone. That's not to de-value ideas...it's just that high concepts aren't usually as unique as we think. It's the fact that there are a MILLION ways to execute them that makes them unique. And if someone stole a basic idea, and then still put in all the work of EXECUTING on that concept, they've likely actually written something that has become something original and personal to them. And at that point, it's hard to say if it even qualifies as theft. After all, we all steal ideas all the time...we just spin them our own way and make them ours.

[horatio616]

Just in case anyone's interested, I've created a profile on authornation.com just to see if and what kind of feedback I can get. It's very similar to myspace and it's pretty easy to use. My url is:

www.authornation.com/horatio616

Check it out. There are a couple of short writing samples there.

[esophagus]

So, I've been trying to come up with an idea for a novel for a long long time. I've been reading a lot of biographies lately and have, in turn, been thinking about what goes into writing one. I've always been really over-imaginative, and can remember random bits and pieces of my entire life, back to pretty early. Thing is, I'm not sure whats true, and what bits of my imagination has just made it's why into my memory. So... That's what I'm going to write about. "Late Night Puppet Theatre: My Entirely Fictional Autobiography". Tentatively titled, of course. This has me very excited. I'm sure it'll never see the light of day.

[dave-accampo]

Sounds great. I definitely don't think you should worry about separating out fiction from reality. That should be very freeing. If your aim is to write the Truth, it doesn't matter where fact and fiction overlap.

I don't know the scale of reality/fiction you're thinking, but I'll share this: I once had a class in which the author of a memoir talked about his writing process. He read from a passage, and then he talked us about how he wrote it. He pointed out certain details that he wasn't sure were real. They were generally fairly minor things ,such as the color of the walls or the type of furniture in the room, etc. His point was that he may have crossed into fiction when painting the scene, but he always stayed true to what the scene meant to him and how he felt about it.

[esophagus]

Sounds great. I definitely don't think you should worry about separating out fiction from reality. That should be very freeing. If your aim is to write the Truth, it doesn't matter where fact and fiction overlap.

I don't know the scale of reality/fiction you're thinking, but I'll share this: I once had a class in which the author of a memoir talked about his writing process. He read from a passage, and then he talked us about how he wrote it. He pointed out certain details that he wasn't sure were real. They were generally fairly minor things ,such as the color of the walls or the type of furniture in the room, etc. His point was that he may have crossed into fiction when painting the scene, but he always stayed true to what the scene meant to him and how he felt about it.Things will generally get more truthful as the story progresses, but this is generally going to be about my childhood. It should be fairly obvious to the reader what is and isn't actually happening, but within the story, there'll be no stating the difference between reality and my imagination. When I said I couldn't remember what was real, I meant little things, like how dialogue actually went and what not, but the book will blend fact into everything. Imaginary friends, secret castle forts, etc.

[paper]

Eso, you ought to look for Anne Lamott's book Bird by Bird. If I recall correctly she touches on "creative nonfiction." Should be in every book shop's writing/reference section.

As for what you're allowed to do and not do, everything falls into the former. The emotional truth is far more important than the hard facts. You can make absolutely everything up. Just don't lie.

***

I'm considering a writing workshop. It's hosted by Tinhouse in Portland. One week with extensive workshops and lectures. If you send in a writing sample by March somethingth you may qualify for a scholarship of some sort. 2008 is my big writing year. I want the best resume and portfolio possible when I sit down to apply for New School.

[esophagus]

Eso, you ought to look for Anne Lamott's book Bird by Bird. If I recall correctly she touches on "creative nonfiction." Should be in every book shop's writing/reference section.

As for what you're allowed to do and not do, everything falls into the former. The emotional truth is far more important than the hard facts. You can make absolutely everything up. Just don't lie.

***

I'm considering a writing workshop. It's hosted by Tinhouse in Portland. One week with extensive workshops and lectures. If you send in a writing sample by March somethingth you may qualify for a scholarship of some sort. 2008 is my big writing year. I want the best resume and portfolio possible when I sit down to apply for New School.Creative Non-Fiction is a genre I love, which is why I think this could be so much fun. I think it's going to be relatively short and end around my tenth birthday. It'll be a kids novel.

A workshop sounds like fun, and Portland is great. Go for it. This is my writing year as well. I'd love to have some sort of writing portfolio built up.

[hudsonphillips]

Eso, you ought to look for Anne Lamott's book Bird by Bird. If I recall correctly she touches on "creative nonfiction." Should be in every book shop's writing/reference section.

Agreed. I've been a fan of some of Lamott's stuff before and just went back and picked up this book. It's an excellent resource for writing. I found it to be very "out of the box" and personal. Like having your own mentor.

[kahunablair]

Figured I'd share this with everyone.
http://www.skelliewag.org/110-resources-for-creative-minds-121.htm#more-121

It's a site that has listed 110 different sites to inspire you or give you that creativity punch you need. It's seems to lean more towards writing blogs, but pretty much every single one of the links is usable to any type of Creative process.

Check it out!

[dave-accampo]

Eso, you ought to look for Anne Lamott's book Bird by Bird. If I recall correctly she touches on "creative nonfiction." Should be in every book shop's writing/reference section.

As for what you're allowed to do and not do, everything falls into the former. The emotional truth is far more important than the hard facts. You can make absolutely everything up. Just don't lie.

Lamott's awesome. She came out to speak at my college back when I was in school (right after she published Bird by Bird). She's the one from whom I learned the art of the "shitty first draft."

Lamott's great at showing you how to tap into that creative mind and just let yourself go. She focuses less on the structure of writing, but ya know, that's more important in screenwriting than anything else.

And the second paragraph paper wrote above is absolutely true. Facts be damned. Writing is about getting at the Truth of something, and it doesn't matter if you're using history or imagination to do so.

[deezer]

I guess just a question on this thread (and this isn't meant as an insult in any way, in case some perceive it at that). In this thread, can we just talk about writing? Or could I post something here and get feedback on it? I've started writing short stories (mostly for fun, but also for possibly school magazines and such), and can't find anywhere (other than my sister and her friend) who can give me feedback...

[dave-accampo]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I say go for it. No reason why we can't give specific feedback. I've done a few online workshop-type forums, and I'd be happy to give feedback.

[esophagus]

Six posted something a while back. It's good. I'd love to read it, and I'm sure the more established writers here would to.

[dave-accampo]

You know, on a related note...kahuna's post got me thinking about various exercises and things I've done to spur creativity.

Has anyone ever tried the 20-minute story? This is something I first learned about from McSweeney's. It's not 20 minutes of free-writing. It's writing a complete story in 20 minutes. What happens with this is that it forces you NOT to censor yourself as you write. It also forces you to think small, and to complete something.

It's totally easy, and it's very liberating. Because you get to hide behind the fact that you had only 20 minutes -- who could expect it to be perfect?

And yet, surprisingly, I've read some amazingly good stories written this way, and I've written a few myself that I'm proud of.

So, if anyone wants a little writing challenge, I say we all try the 20 minute story and post 'em here.

[deezer]

I'll post something as soon as I manage to find a way to post it. It's a 4 page story I wrote a bit back, and I don't want to just copy and paste it. Any ideas?

[esophagus]

I wrote a twenty minute story, and I'm quite pleased with it. It's not my best writing, but for twenty minutes I think it's fairly impressive. Here goes...



Writers block. Shit. Twenty minutes left to go, and I’m stuck. As I type I can feel the keyboard rumble from the rampant vibrating of my cell phone. The publisher I’m sure, warning me of that looming contractual agreement I have to finish this. Not important. I must type on! Heh. An adventure book perhaps? It couldn’t be to hard. Staring blankly into the computer screen I can feel myself wince a little as the, loyal thus far, Hewlett Packard unhinges its jaw and swallows me whole. I’m floating aimlessly through an abyss of misused words and grammar errors, searching for the hidden gem of an idea, shining ominously as if to say “I‘ve been here the whole time, and you know I‘m great. Why didn‘t you pick me first?” It’s right. Why didn’t I? I’m in for a verbal harassing, that I’m just not looking forward to.

Perhaps a children’s story? I’d never tried that before. It seems to be the “hip” thing to do. I’m no Jerry Seinfeld, but at the very least I can beat out Madonna. Once upon a time there was a prince. For our intents and purposes we’ll call him Prince Amaz-o. His servants so aptly named him that because he was just so eerily amazing. One day an angry man, we’ll call him The Punishing Publisher, for obvious reasons, stormed the castle. “Why are you wasting your time with bullshit fantasy?” he raged. He was right. Ten minutes to go.

The silence in the room has drawn me farther off topic. I remember the “good old days” when I good just sit and listen to the clock tick as I waited for the time to pass, but now everything was digital, and I didn’t even have that to fall back on. **** technology. I’d have to make real use of my time. I could always try a horror story. It was, in fact, where I’d gotten my start. Writing for the cheap horror rags, living off the five dollars a story I was getting for my time and talents. I stood up and took off from my desk. Running out the window, ravaging everything in my path. It was almost that time. Full moon. I was going to turn. They called me the Wolf Man, partially because I was known to take a bite out of any new editors egos, and partially because it’s exactly what I was. That’s my little secret though. There was no avoiding the moon, and the impending doom it would bring with it. I’d simply have to face it, stare it in the eye, and tell it I just wasn’t ready. “You knew this was coming” it would say. “Why didn’t you prepare? I gave you the time.” The moon was right. He had given me time. Two minutes left.

A memoir. That was it. That’s what I could write. They’re easy enough aren’t they? “A Day in the Life of a Failing Success”. It’s a piece of cake. What do I know better than myself? Nothing. Here goes nothing… Writers block. Shit.



Edit: It's short I know. Can't wait to see what the rest of you come up with!

[dave-accampo]

Nice job, Eso. It's OK that it's short. That's the point. You can spend 19 minutes thinking of the perfect two sentences and then right them in the final minute if that makes the best possible story.

But your piece is good. I like the voice and the circular nature of it. Way to make "writer's block" work for ya. You actually came up with a cool little character as you went. Did you expect to end where you did?

[dave-accampo]

OK, I failed...went 26 minutes in order to finish it (hey I proposed it, but didn't say you couldn't bend the rules by a few minutes).

mmm, needs a title. I'm gonna call it:

The Small Amount of Time Traveler

by David Accampo

Start: 12:22am

Jude's ability was, in the larger scheme of the universe, rather unimpressive. And yet, he took pride in his ability, as he felt it was something that was solely his, to grow and shape.

Jude didn't tell anyone of his ability. They wouldn't understand. "Time travel," they would say, "Bah."

The way it worked was this: by closing his eyes very firmly, so that he could see nothing at all, Jude could travel into the future. He couldn't travel very far, of course. A short blink could only get him one, maybe two seconds into the future. But as he became a teenager, Jude realized that longer blinks, with a great deal of concentration, could move him 3, sometimes even 5 seconds into the future. It was at this juncture that he decided two things:

One: he should continue to train and hone this unique power

Two: he should not abuse this power.

The latter principle came not from his parents, who cared nothing for moral dilemmas (they were cat burglars by profession, Jude would later discover when the police arrived at his doorstep on Christmas Eve while Jude was trying to stay awake for Santa Claus' imminent arrival -- an arrival that never happened and was in fact cruelly reversed as the uniformed officers seized his existing toys as evidence and even ate the cookies that Jude had personally baked for the truant Saint Nick). But while his parents had failed to prepare him for his ethical dilemma, Jude had found the answers he sought in the comic books that he read so lovingly. In these magazines, men with powers learned to use them justly and only in appropriate situations. The men who chose not to do so wore dark colors and sinister masks. They often shouted. Jude appreciated this world view, as he had never suspected his parents of being cat burglars -- just fond of black clothing and expensive paintings and jewelry that seemed to come into the house and quickly disappear.

This comic book stories served him well until adulthood, when he found himself in plots far more complicated than those in which Clark Kent had become embroiled.

His first girlfriend in college slept with his roommate because she "just got high and things happened." Jude didn't understand this, but he didn't like it very much either. He blinked for a long time, and when he opened his eyes, his girlfriend had left the room. He was still in college, but it seemed different now. His jump in time had given him a new perspective.

Later, when he was fired because the department at the software company was downsized, Jude made his longest jump yet. He closed his eyes, and we he opened them, five whole minutes had passed by. And in this strange future, the old maze of cubicles didn't seem as familiar or as important as it had once been. It was much easier to leave.

His wife left him when his unemployment ran out. Jude went to sleep and a whole day passed. He realized that he no longer loved Emma; the future was wide open.

And on he went, closing his eyes and letting the days pass him by, moving forward into a distant future where he could start all over again.

This happened when, some four and half days into the future, he met a woman named Sarah at the Laundromat. She was folding pink blouses. She appeared to have at least six of them. Future fashion. Pink was in, it appeared. She wore her blond hair pulled loosely back. She caught his gaze and smiled. Her front tooth was chipped, but her smile was very warm and he liked the deep angular folds it created in her cheeks. He thought she was a work of art. It made him bold.

"I've traveled a very long way to find you," he said, a pair of dirty khakis balled in his fist.

She laughed. "What's that from?" she asked.

"What?" said Jude.

"That's from a movie, isn't it?" she said.

Jude didn't answer. He didn't know how. He paused for a moment, lowering the pants. "My name is Jude," he said finally.

"Sarah," said Sarah, "Nice to meet you, Jude." When he didn't answer she stopped folding her laundry and looked at him with apprehension. "What is it, Jude? Is something wrong?" she asked.

Jude trembled as he smiled, "No, it's nothing... it's just... I'm trying not to blink."

"Why not?" She said, with a high pitched flutter of a laugh.

"I just really don't want to miss this moment. I feel it might be important," said Jude.

"Now that," she said as she returned to her laundry, "that is definitely from a movie. Something. I can't think of what. But it'll come to me."

Jude let her think on it for a while.

End: 12:48am


Edited to fix the weird punctuation that didn't translate from the Word Doc.

[esophagus]

Nice job, Eso. It's OK that it's short. That's the point. You can spend 19 minutes thinking of the perfect two sentences and then right them in the final minute if that makes the best possible story.

But your piece is good. I like the voice and the circular nature of it. Way to make "writer's block" work for ya. You actually came up with a cool little character as you went. Did you expect to end where you did?Thanks. I was having trouble thinking of what to write. Not so much writers block, as just figuring it all out, but with twenty minutes there wasn't enough time, so I went with that. I didn't expect it to end there, that was just the two minute time crunch hitting me.

No time to read yours now, saddly, but I look forward to it.

[esophagus]

Just finished reading that, and I absolutely love it. Such a great concept.

[dave-accampo]

Just finished reading that, and I absolutely love it. Such a great concept.

Thanks, man. Just something that popped into my head, but looking back on it, I think I went "too big" for a 20 minute story, if that makes sense. As I'm sure you noticed, you really have to keep the narrative very lean when attempting this. But as I got into it, the whole cat burglar thing just came out of nowhere, and then I had to fight my instinct to follow that thread, cuz I knew I'd never be able to get back to the time travel detail if I did. And then I felt like I had to rush to get to the end.

I think it could be better as a 45 minute story. :D

But this is why I like this exercise. It forces you to make split decisions. And who doesn't have 20 minutes to spare?

Right?

Anyone?

Anyone?

The challenge is on! :)

[esophagus]

Yeah, you really do have to hold yourself to one thread to finish in twenty minutes, and even then you end up with three and a half paragraphs.

On the Cat Burglar note, I was kind of expecting his parents to be sneaking into the house with a sack of toys, and he assumed they'd robbed Santa, when in reality they were putting out gifts. Thought it would hold true to his general personality. But the twist that they actually were cat burglars through me off, in a good way.

[horatio616]

I don't think I could write a sentence in 20 minutes. Yes, I'm that slow. I'll have to give it a try sometime.

I have a short short and a partially completed story posted here:

www.authornation.com/horatio616

[dave-accampo]

I don't think I could write a sentence in 20 minutes. Yes, I'm that slow. I'll have to give it a try sometime.

Well, that's the point of the exercise. Unless you are a realllllllllllllly slow typist, then of course you can write more than a sentence in 20 minutes. :) The clock forces you to not second guess yourself or edit yourself before you get into the flow of what you're writing.

[deezer]

so here's the story... hope y'all like it.

also, if any of y'all know Gaelic, please help. Anything not in english are extremely rough translations into Gaelic, since the language sounds cool.

http://www.authornation.com/index.php?option=com_comprofiler&task=userProfile

[paper]

I'll be doing the 20 minute thing soon. I love that kind of stuff. Just have to clear through some projects...

[flakbait]

Hey everyone, I'm pretty new here, but I write as well! I graduated with an English degree, but really took a long hiatus from writing until about a year ago, when I discovered a writing group of really cool people that I work with. I just recently had a (my first) story accepted over at A Thousand Faces (http://www.thousand-faces.com/) (should appear early next year).

Love your Time Traveler story, Dave. I may have to try out that 20-minute exercise sometime. I'm trying to finish up a story now involving my own version of the modern sorcerer supreme archetype, for a Secret Santa thing my group is doing (we all drew names and wrote a story for the person).

Among other projects, we have a running prompt contest that restarts each month. Minimum 500 words fulfilling various writing exercises. Whoever gets the most done in the month gets a small prize. If anyone wants exercises I can post some here.

[esophagus]

I'd be interested in seeing them. I think we're all looking to get better, and practice gets you there.

[dave-accampo]

so here's the story... hope y'all like it.

also, if any of y'all know Gaelic, please help. Anything not in english are extremely rough translations into Gaelic, since the language sounds cool.

http://www.authornation.com/index.php?option=com_comprofiler&task=userProfile

Deezer, I think your link is screwed up -- I'm getting a login page (no content).

[flakbait]

I've got a big list of them at work, I'll see if I can find the file so I can just copy and past them in. Here's a few:

Write a short story about a person who gets a tattoo. It can be a tattoo as we know it today, or a mark for level of magical power, or a family mark or anything.

Use these three things in your story or scene: a young woman, a silver chain, terror.

Write a short story or scene using these words: Frantic, mossy, iron, raven, stone, rustle, pale, lost.

Write a short story in which your main character finds a box of scorched human hair.

Begin a short story or scene with "Everything was different after..."

Use these three things in your short story or scene: A bounty hunter, a ghost town, a matchbox.

Make a misshapen tree a central object in a short story or scene.

I actually got a pretty decent and spooky story out of those last two that I'm hoping to clean up and submit somewhere.

[dave-accampo]

That reminds me a bit of something we started with my production company. We'd actually still like to do it, but it's taking a bit of time to get things going. Basically, what happened is this:

After we finished our first film, we had broken the hammer on the prop gun we rented, so we had to buy the prop. The production was grueling, and I just wanted to WRITE something again. Someone on a forum (Newsarama maybe?) said it was really hard to write a 3 page script. I said, "nah, you just have to focus on a small moment...here, I'll do it." And then sitting there with the prop gun, I wrote a three page story that I knew I could film in a night.

When I was done, I sent to my business partner and co-writer, Jeremy. He read it and said, "wow, we should shoot this. It's so simple. and I love the way you used the three basic props of the bottle of whiskey, the cigarettes, and the gun."

And I said, "Yeah, we could totally do a whole series of films with just those props -- we call it 'Whiskey, Gun, Cigarette.'"

And that was it. Suddenly, we were churning out 3-5 page scripts using just those props. There were crime stories, slice-of-life pieces, comedies, horror scripts. We started having other writers send us scripts.

To this day, people still love the concept, and I'd say we have at least 8 solid scripts we could shoot any time.

Oh, and we did shoot that first film, which is now called 'The Long Road.' It recently won an award at a film festival here in LA. So that's kinda cool, too.

[deezer]

hmmm.... apparently I'm really bad with computers. Tell me if this doesn't work:
http://www.authornation.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1571

[esophagus]

Does yout story only have one paragraph, or is that just the Author Nation formatting failing?

[horatio616]

This is something I have on authornation.com...


The Last Believer

A miracle is unfolding. There is a little girl running toward me. Her arms are outstretched but I can’t see her hands as they’ve been swallowed by the sleeves of a powder blue jacket that’s at least two sizes too big for her. Dew has darkened the cuffs of her jeans and the wet, thick grass threatens to trip her with every stride. The morning sun paints white streaks in her curly blonde hair. I can’t tell if she is smiling at me or if the intensity of the sunlight is causing her to squint. The little girl’s name is Carly and she is my daughter. She is four years old. I haven’t seen her since she was two.

My ex-wife Sandra stands behind her car with her arms draped over the hood. She’s trying to avoid eye contact with me and her face is contorted into a scowl. Her hair is mussed, and her scowl has riddled her brow with wrinkles, but her underlying beauty is still there. That much at least has not changed. At one time no one on earth loved me more, but now all that is gone, erased by my mistakes. All that she has left for me is hate, and she is justified in that.

I drop to my knees, ignoring the wetness, and open my arms for Carly. I steel myself, knowing that I am unprepared for what I will feel when I embrace her. I don’t want to cry. I don’t want them to see me for the broken, defeated man that I am. I want them to see someone who is strong; I want them to know that the weakness that wrecked their lives no longer remains. I am here as a man reborn.

She is close enough now that I can hear her breathing. Her eyes are watering and her nose is running, a byproduct of the cool wind and the sun. Mine are doing the same, but for different reasons. I can feel my pulse quicken. Even though I’m jacketless in this cold a sweat breaks across my forehead. My mouth goes dry and every muscle in my body begins to tense and relax in a quick, nervous rhythm, like a light switch being flicked on and off. I inhale, but I’m unable to release my breath because it gets stuck somewhere in my chest.

Before full-blown panic can set in, she is upon me. Instantly her arms lock themselves around my neck. Her cool little cheek presses to mine. Her clothes have been contaminated by the scents of the outdoors, but underneath that I can smell the strawberry in her hair and baby lotion on her skin. For a few seconds I hold my arms straight out, as though I’m not quite sure what to do with them, but then slowly I close them around her. She’s such a tiny thing in my arms. It’s been so long since I’ve held something so precious.

She pulls back to look at me with her soft blue eyes. She is her mother as a child. The flat nose that she once had is gone, replaced by Sandra’s prominent bridge. I see, too, Sandra’s long eyelashes, full lips, and close-set eyes reflected in Carly’s features. It’s as though she’s discarded all the parts of herself that came from me. It’s not the same face that she had when I left. I’m looking at a stranger.

I’m unable to stop the tears. For these last two years they have come often and easily, but always when I was alone. This is not what I wanted my daughter to see, but I’m too far gone to stop. To look into your own child’s eyes and see a stranger is devastating. Despite this I am thankful. Carly is giving me a second chance that I don’t deserve. I have wronged every person that I have ever known and she is the only one of them that is willing to forgive me. I’m looking into the eyes of my last believer.

I am saved by these words: “Daddy, are you okay?” It is the voice of an angel.

I can’t answer. My eyes and nose are drowning in fluid and there’s a knot as hard as a stone in my throat. I squeeze her tightly. I am not okay. I’m not even close to it, but this is the first step. Okay will come.

[horatio616]

hmmm.... apparently I'm really bad with computers. Tell me if this doesn't work:
http://www.authornation.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1571

Authornation is still working out some bugs, apparently. For example, I can't navigate from your story back to your main page, or at least I've not been able to figure out how. What's your authornation profile and I'll add you to my readers' list. Mine is:

authornation.com/horatio616

[esophagus]

Authornation is still working out some bugs, apparently. For example, I can't navigate from your story back to your main page, or at least I've not been able to figure out how. What's your authornation profile and I'll add you to my readers' list. Mine is:

authornation.com/horatio616His is deezer89.

[deezer]

I managed to fix it... I've been using safari and (for some reason) it's been completely ignoring my formatting attempts. I managed to fix it though (oh Firefox, you are a lovely thing indeed...)

[esophagus]

I managed to fix it... I've been using safari and (for some reason) it's been completely ignoring my formatting attempts. I managed to fix it though (oh Firefox, you are a lovely thing indeed...)
Much better. I'll try and read it later. Same goes to you Horatio.

[paper]

The entire time I've been posting on this forum I've been working on my senior project screenplay. It's a feature length script dealing with a magician and lost legs and a train robbery and all sorts of wonderful rubbish in a seaside england town during an unnamed war involving biplanes. Well, it's due this week. And because it's so complicated I've yet to finish a complete draft. I keep rewriting the first act. So, essentially, I have a whole script to write.

And here's what I like about me. I'm starting over in the morning. Entirely new story. And I'm going to write it in two and a half days.

See, the magician story is a book, not a movie. It's not marketable, and it's actually too complicated to write as a film in the space of a weekend. So, I'm putting it on the back burner until I can look at it as a novel. And tomorrow I'm starting something new. A comedy about a high school quiz team. And it better work. Or I'm screwed.

[esophagus]

That takes guts. Wow. Good luck. Log off now, and don't come back until you have a finished product.

[paper]

Will I go down in flames or soar with eagles? Only time will tell. Wish me luck, my friends! Whatever happens, I ask but one thing!

Remember this night!

This night when Paper crossed the threshold!

Into legend!

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y192/polcapn/screenshot-3.jpg


I love all of you. Equally.

[dave-accampo]

A couple folks posted stories earlier....I just wanted to mention that I still intend to read those and give you guys feedback. I just need to do it when I have the time to focus. Soon...soon...

[tad]

A note for the Workshop about "great minds think alike." Having just finished penciling and scripting 22 pages of my comic about a goth girl who learns she's half faerie, I cringed when Ron gave the capsule review of Suburban Glamour.

Yet the difference is in the details and my book is more cartoonish and has a more Men in Black slant to it than SG. Still, ya can't help grittin' your teeth a bit.

For the record, I intend to ink and letter the entire issue, at least pencil the first third of the second issue and write out the story of the first arc before submitting it to Image. People say I have more than enough, but since my "real" job ends Dec. 31, who knows how much time I'll have to devote to comic drawing.

[dave-accampo]

A note for the Workshop about "great minds think alike." Having just finished penciling and scripting 22 pages of my comic about a goth girl who learns she's half faerie, I cringed when Ron gave the capsule review of Suburban Glamour.

Yet the difference is in the details and my book is more cartoonish and has a more Men in Black slant to it than SG. Still, ya can't help grittin' your teeth a bit.

For the record, I intend to ink and letter the entire issue, at least pencil the first third of the second issue and write out the story of the first arc before submitting it to Image. People say I have more than enough, but since my "real" job ends Dec. 31, who knows how much time I'll have to devote to comic drawing.

Doesnt' that suck when you hear something like that? I'm sure your story will be its own unique piece, but I know that feeling.

The recent mini-series 'The Surrogates' from Top Shelf had some similarities to a screenplay I had written a few years back with my writing partner. Ours was quite different in many ways, but the whole idea of the 'surrogates' was a bit similar.

And we also have a comic script that's based on a story we've been working on for years that's about a lake under Antarctica, and we've been living in fear that someone else will use that concept.

But now we've got an artist drawing from our script, so...hopefully it all works out...

[valoharth]

I've been thinking about this for the last couple of days and I was curious about what other people think. When writing or coming up with a story what do you concentrate on the most, Character or Plot?

For me, I'm a character driven guy. Since the days I started chucking dice in a little game called D&D to my theater classes in College I have always been interested in developing characters and then putting them into a situation. It seems to me some writers like to do it the other way, they get the situation and then throw in generic characters to further the plot (any horror movie is a prime example of this especially the SAW sequels).

So am I insane in thinking that character over rides plot?

[tad]

You're just reacting to things done poorly.

Let's say you come up with a gimmick for a Las Vegas heist that revolves around tricking the casino owner so that his security cameras are actually watching a duplicate building located somewhere else. (See Oceans 11). You have a general notion of the kind of twists and turns you might use and the way a con would play out.

You could populate it with cookie cutter types or you could take the time to create unique and memorable individuals.

In the mystery genre, there are plenty of procedurals that are engrossing. But the best at least have a memorable central detective.

[dave-accampo]

I've been thinking about this for the last couple of days and I was curious about what other people think. When writing or coming up with a story what do you concentrate on the most, Character or Plot?

For me, I'm a character driven guy. Since the days I started chucking dice in a little game called D&D to my theater classes in College I have always been interested in developing characters and then putting them into a situation. It seems to me some writers like to do it the other way, they get the situation and then throw in generic characters to further the plot (any horror movie is a prime example of this especially the SAW sequels).

So am I insane in thinking that character over rides plot?

Oh, I am absolutely a character-driven writer. But at this stage, I tend to not look at it as an either/or.

Here's how I view plot. Plot is the intersection of character and circumstance. Your characters have desires. They follow their desire until they reach and obstacle. This creates conflict, and this chain of events becomes the plot.

So I always work from character, but I sometimes THINK about plot in the terms of...what can I throw at this character to make them unable to achieve their desire?

My favorite way of putting this is from a metafictional story/essay piece by Margaret Atwood called "Happy Endings." You can probably seek it out. It's about how the only real ending is that everyone dies, but we pick WHERE we end our story. But she ends up talking about plot, and her final words are something like:

"A plot is just a what, a what, and a what. Now try the how and the why."

[valoharth]

You're just reacting to things done poorly.

Let's say you come up with a gimmick for a Las Vegas heist that revolves around tricking the casino owner so that his security cameras are actually watching a duplicate building located somewhere else. (See Oceans 11). You have a general notion of the kind of twists and turns you might use and the way a con would play out.

You could populate it with cookie cutter types or you could take the time to create unique and memorable individuals.

In the mystery genre, there are plenty of procedurals that are engrossing. But the best at least have a memorable central detective.


Okay yea you got me there Tad, I do love the caper movie and Oceans 11 and 13 are really good examples of it and yea they did start off with they Writer thinking about the twist first.

[dave-accampo]

I was going to mention Die Hard as a film that's generally thought of as a solid, well-structured action film.

Everything in that movie is about the characters running into obstacles on the way achieve what they desire.

Now did the plot come first or did the characters come first? Truthfully, it doesn't really matter...the fact is that in the final product, the plot really is an effective demonstration of the characters running into obstacles that keep them from that they want.

Tad's absolutely right. It's all about the execution and making sure that everything makes sense and feels necessary in the narrative. Doesn't matter what came first, as long as it all works in the final cut.

[paper]

Plotting is a weakness of mine. I'll freely admit that it's something I'm working on. So it's a character world for me.

If you create characters and put the right ones next to each other, conflict will happen. I'll do character profiles and learn as much as I can about my characters. You know those long email surveys always going around? Fill it out as your character. You'll see patterns. And there's your story.

[valoharth]

Plotting is a weakness of mine. I'll freely admit that it's something I'm working on. So it's a character world for me.

If you create characters and put the right ones next to each other, conflict will happen. I'll do character profiles and learn as much as I can about my characters. You know those long email surveys always going around? Fill it out as your character. You'll see patterns. And there's your story.

I did something simular in my acting classes in college where I would go through and roll up stats as if my character was a D&D character, well I would more or less atribute what I thought would be apropriat for the character and then I would go on from there. It really helped me visualize the character and get more into what they were all about... and then I would go slay a dragon with them, Lenny from Mice and men didn't do so well against a horde of goblins hehehe... sorry dorking out there and going for a cheap laugh.

[dave-accampo]

I'll do character profiles and learn as much as I can about my characters.

I know a lot of people who work like this. And I've done a few exercises like this. But generally, for ME, I have to put the character in a room to learn about them. It's just the way I work. I can't seem to glean anything from a profile. I have to start with a very generic notion and then put the character into a situation and see what they do.

I guess maybe earlier when I said that I don't treat it as an "either/or" thing, what I was really saying is that I no longer know what comes first...plot is just what comes from characters in conflict....even if you reverse engineer it and start with the plot and then discover what characters would become embroiled in such a plot.

I don' t think I'm making much sense anymore. :)

[paper]

Once I wrote an interrogation scene using one of my characters and an inquisitor. Regular script format, all dialogue. I learned quite a lot about him.

[dave-accampo]

Once I wrote an interrogation scene using one of my characters and an inquisitor. Regular script format, all dialogue. I learned quite a lot about him.

Ah, that's cool. I like that idea.

Now, you wrote that as an exercise, and then...did you place that character into a story after that? Or did the interrogation become part of the story?

[paper]

It told me about the character's childhood. Why he behaves the way he does. He's very much a Dr. Smith type villain forced to aid in the heroes' quest. It's become central to the bigger story.

The closest thing I could compare it to is the ring in the Hobbit. I may have this a bit confused, but didn't Tolkien come up with the ring in that first book and then think about its origins, which inspired the Lord of the Rings?

[paper]

A 20 minute composition:


There in the grip of the squid, Oliver's thoughts turned to Miranda. A rib cracked and he recalled her imperfect fingernails nibbled to the quick. A suction cup grazed against his waistcoat, shearing off a button. It tumbled end-over-end through the darkness. The squid shook, jerking its limbs, and Oliver found himself further from the surface. The rippling beacons of whale-oil fire shrunk away. He didn't scream as Hawlings did. The bubbles of the medic's death-cry exploded in pinpricks on Oliver's cheek. Pressure built in his skull and he pictured Miranda's bare feet, pale and poised on the guard rail of the lighthouse top. The squid blinked as if in concentration. The girl dove from the spire. A cascade of auburn and linens. Oliver clasped her fingertips and followed.

I'm rather slow, you see. I'll try again tomorrow.

[paper]

One more try:

My girlfriend adores her old man, so I decided to make friends. Rainy night. Thought about the open window in the bathroom as I drove down to the valley. I stood in the parlor as he draped my jacket over the radiator. He fell back into his recliner and nudged a bowl of Andes mints toward me with his foot. I took one and pocketed it for the ride home. It'd be nice and melty by then.

There were seven human skulls on the mantle. I wondered if they were Polly's ex-boyfriends. Then I asked if they were Polly's ex-boyfriends. The Admiral shook his head and leaned forward in the chair. It looked awkward as the seat was still reclined. Those are a project, he said.

The next night I drove us out to Darcy Field. He insisted on sitting in the back with the shovels. We trudged through mud and plump worms to a row of headstones. Take only the Georges, he said. Shovel over my shoulder, I passed by Marshalls and Wendys and Adams and Janets until I came upon the weathered marker of George Burroughs Ashley, beloved father and green grocer. I could hear the Admiral heaving clumps of dirt and clay into the bushes. The first of six Georges that night. They should twist right off, he said brightly. This was more or less accurate. I've forgotten a bag, I said when I'd accumulated two heads. He laughed or coughed. Just use your shirt tails like you're apple picking.

They created an awful racket, rolling around in the trunk.

Do you think you'll want to marry Polly, he asked, as we set the skulls in a circle on the cellar floor three weeks later. He scrawled a limestone pentagram as I translated the text from Turkish to Latin. Yes, I think I will. Do you approve?

Do you remember the George that turned out to be a Georgia, he asked. I nodded. Well, he said. She had a nice ring on.

And he emptied his hand onto mine.

[paper]

And one more:

Don't stare, cautioned my mother. It was my first Thanksgiving at the adult table, and my aunt Cecelia had invited her new boyfriend, a horse called Richard.

Aunt Cecelia sat at the head of the feast as she was the eldest of the Sherman siblings and my grandparents were both buried in a graveyard just down the road. Richard stood at the opposite end covered in an orange and yellow afghan. Will you lead us in prayer, my darling, cooed Aunt Cecelia. When Richard did nothing, my mother volunteered yours truly. He's just learnt some new prayers for Confirmation, she said. Haven't you, Max? Aunt Cecelia looked crossly at Richard. I fumbled through the adult version of the Act of Contrition, which includes words like 'detest' and 'resolve.'

During the middle of the meal, Richard decided to stand on the table. This caused a great deal of controversy because this sort of thing isn't usually permitted at the adult table. It was expected at the kid's table, which also functioned as a checker board or ping pong table. Uncle Alexander and cousin Pete coaxed Richard down, but not before his front passenger side hoof snagged a doily. The turkey slid into my father's lap, waking him up. Uncle Alexander was kicked in the chest and he went to sit out on the porch.

It's back to the glue factory for you, Dick, said Aunt Cecelia. She already had her cigarette lit before she excused herself from the table.

[paper]

Brian, the one with the sideburns, sat on the corner of her desk. "How's the first day going?" He said it in a very specific way which suggested to Grace that he wanted very much to get in her pants.

"Fair enough," she said. "But what's with all the odd announcements?"

"Announcements..."

"Sure," said Grace, "Whoever's on the loudspeaker is just rattling off non-sequiturs. What they want for lunch. Errands they have to run."

"Oh, that's Plum," said Brian, after a moment. "In accounting. Bald guy with the earring. We can hear his thoughts." He picked up Grace's Huckleberry Hound Pez dispenser and flexed the head back and forth. "You'll get used to it."

"Does he know?" asked Grace.

"I don't think so. There was a memo which never got around to him. No one's supposed to let on. He's sort of a whiz and we don't want him to feel uncomfortable and quit."

"I've heard about this sort of thing," Grace lied. "I'll just have to tune it out."

"Pretty educational though," said Brian. "Proof that men aren't just thinking about sex all the time. The last time Zachary Plum had a salacious thought it was last Spring, day before his vacation. And it was barely PG-13."

Grace suddenly held a finger to her lips and returned to her work.

"New girl's kind of pretty, in a Marilu Henner sort of way," thought Zachary Plum as he returned from lunch.

[paper]

"What's a made man, Uncle Charlie?"
"Is that what your mother said I was?"
"Said that was a nice way of putting it."
"I guess it is. You could also say I'm a wise guy."
"What's it all mean?"
"I'm charismatic. I don't have to wear a tie to work because I don't have to go to work."
"Do the horses like racing?"
"Sure. When the gate opens they just start galloping. Can't wait."
"How do you pick the right one."
"I usually don't."
"But how do you pick."
"There's math to it. Alan Alda taught me. That's what this notebook's for."
"Who's Alan Alda?"
"A fake doctor."
"Shouldn't he be in prison for that?"
"Don't say prison here."
"Can I have more peanuts?"
"Yeah. Listen. What sounds faster. Rusty Nickels or Adam's Apple?"
"I like Garbo's Garters."
"Are you sure?"
"Yeah."
"How much birthday money you got left?"

[paper]

As the cockroach awoke one morning from uneasy dreams he found himself transformed in his bed into an Austrian existentialist. None of this matters, he thought, as he rolled onto a lesser number of feet than usual. He felt vulnerable from nuclear attack almost instantly. This made him uneasy. He clapped his cheeks to revive himself and the sound activated the ceiling lamp. He wanted to scuttle into a crevice beneath the molding, but decided against it. I suppose I should write something, he thought. It won't matter, but I'll do it anyway. He turned on a computer in the corner and sat cross-legged on the floor. On a normal day he'd have had intercourse in three different parts of the wall by now. He scrolled over Word and opened the Text Edit application because none of it mattered. I'll write about famine, he decided. After four hours and as many chapters, he realized he'd become invested in the small farming community he was writing about. Maybe I'm not an existentialist, he thought. Losing an exoskeleton's really made me soft.

[esophagus]

Ahhh. I worked through a whole day of story writing? I'll try and write one or two tonight. Hopefully better than that first one. I have this nagging impulse to finish stories, so instead of doing half an excellent story in twenty minutes I write an entire shit one.

[paper]

I wrote six stories for you clowns today. Attention must be paid!

The extent to which I am an only child is simply staggering. I need liquid attention in an IV bag. If I'm ever mortally wounded I'm apt to drop my hat on the ground and spasm for loose change before I hit pavement.

[valoharth]

One more try:

My girlfriend adores her old man, so I decided to make friends. Rainy night. Thought about the open window in the bathroom as I drove down to the valley. I stood in the parlor as he draped my jacket over the radiator. He fell back into his recliner and nudged a bowl of Andes mints toward me with his foot. I took one and pocketed it for the ride home. It'd be nice and melty by then.

There were seven human skulls on the mantle. I wondered if they were Polly's ex-boyfriends. Then I asked if they were Polly's ex-boyfriends. The Admiral shook his head and leaned forward in the chair. It looked awkward as the seat was still reclined. Those are a project, he said.

The next night I drove us out to Darcy Field. He insisted on sitting in the back with the shovels. We trudged through mud and plump worms to a row of headstones. Take only the Georges, he said. Shovel over my shoulder, I passed by Marshalls and Wendys and Adams and Janets until I came upon the weathered marker of George Burroughs Ashley, beloved father and green grocer. I could hear the Admiral heaving clumps of dirt and clay into the bushes. The first of six Georges that night. They should twist right off, he said brightly. This was more or less accurate. I've forgotten a bag, I said when I'd accumulated two heads. He laughed or coughed. Just use your shirt tails like you're apple picking.

They created an awful racket, rolling around in the trunk.

Do you think you'll want to marry Polly, he asked, as we set the skulls in a circle on the cellar floor three weeks later. He scrawled a limestone pentagram as I translated the text from Turkish to Latin. Yes, I think I will. Do you approve?

Do you remember the George that turned out to be a Georgia, he asked. I nodded. Well, he said. She had a nice ring on.

And he emptied his hand onto mine.

So this one I think is the best out of them, it made me laugh and I'm positive if you revisit this one you could get more out of it. The one with the man and the kid at the horse races was good, speaking of which,

Whats the deal with horses? Two storys had em in there! Hehehe

[paper]

Thanks, Valo.

It's Christmas time, and all I want is a pony. So I guess that explains the recurring theme. Haha.

[dave-accampo]

paper, you are to be commended. Awesome job. I say that because it makes me want to write more. That's always a good sign. Maybe after Dexter's over.:)

How do you feel about the stories? Think you got some good stuff out of them?

I don't have any detailed notes at the moment, but I actually loved the language and the scene in the first one, but like Valo, I think maybe the second piece is my favorite. "Uncle Charlie" was great, too.

[paper]

I do feel like I can use some of those things. I have no idea if the Graverobber's Club would work as a longer piece. Worth trying I guess.

I like matter-of-fact craziness. Magic realism. When I say I want to write for kids it's mostly because they're willing to suspend disbelief a little more than their older counterparts. I simply don't have patience for people who say things like, "Well that couldn't happen. A crab has never married a St. Bernard."

Uncle Charlie is based on that Takeshi Kitano movie. Kikujiro. Dialogue's mine, but the idea of a hustler taking a kid to a race track in from that film.

[dave-accampo]

I like matter-of-fact craziness. Magic realism. When I say I want to write for kids it's mostly because they're willing to suspend disbelief a little more than their older counterparts. I simply don't have patience for people who say things like, "Well that couldn't happen. A crab has never married a St. Bernard."

Agreed. I love guys like Italo Calvino or Gabriel Garcia Marquez. I find that I don't usually like straight fantasy novels, but I love literary novels that aren't afraid to include a little magic in them, ya know? That aren't afraid of a little childlike wonder in the world.

[itsbecca]

When I say I want to write for kids it's mostly because they're willing to suspend disbelief a little more than their older counterparts.

Oh you've said that? That was something that strongly came to mind when I was reading your stories, that you could write great children's books. But I didn't know if you'd take that the right way. There's definitley a way about children's literature where the world you put forth is just taken as so, as opposed to with adults where if it's out of the ordinary sometimes it takes some persuasion to bring them in.

[valoharth]

Oh you've said that? That was something that strongly came to mind when I was reading your stories, that you could write great children's books. But I didn't know if you'd take that the right way. There's definitley a way about children's literature where the world you put forth is just taken as so, as opposed to with adults where if it's out of the ordinary sometimes it takes some persuasion to bring them in.

Why would he take it the wrong way? nothing wrong with writing children books, heck I want to do a couple! However they would be more like Calvin and Hobbs or the Goonies as opose to The old lady who ate a fly or Spot the puppy!

[dave-accampo]

OK, Paper's dedication inspired me, so I popped on some music and tried it again. I had nothing in mind when I started. Not sure how I feel about it.


Start 10:34pm


It was Tuesday, and Edmund was haunting me again.

I should explain. Edmund was not the type of ghost one usually finds clanking about in the dusty attic of old house, a fact he explicitly stated one morning over my ritual coffee and garlic bagel.

?There are ghost who haunt houses, of course,? said Edmund. He was sitting across from me. Morning sunlight shot through him from the kitchen window. He continued, ?But they really tend to be rather anti-social. Very possessive. Terrible conversationalists. All ?keep out!? and ?this house is mine!? They?ll never come to a party, and on the rare occasion they can be convinced to throw one, they run around all night, checking to see if you?re using coasters or wrinkling the cushions on the sofa. Oh, you?ve got some cream cheese on your tie.?

I dabbed at the white smudge with a paper towel and asked him, ?why exactly are you haunting me again??

Edmund smiled, ?I?m going to get you laid.?

?What?? I wasn?t offended by his statement, but it was a bit off-putting. ?I?ve never?heard of a haunting to?you know??

?Oh, I know,? said Edmund. ?It?s really rather irregular. But I?ve been watching you, Alan, and I think I can help.?

?I?m going to be late for work,? I said. I stood from the table and tucked the morning paper under my arm. ?I?ve got to catch the train.

?There?s a girl,? Edmund called after me. ?Brown hair. Very pretty. Nose is a bit long and the nostrils flare too much for my taste, but?she watches you every day.?

?I find that hard to believe,? I called back and I jogged out the door.

?That?s why you aren?t getting laid!? he shouted?his hollow voice was faint, but easily distinguishable.

# # #

On the train, I tried to read the paper, but I couldn?t concentrate. A large woman in an orange dress coughed incessantly. I found the effect jarring. The doors opened and close at each stop and I found myself glancing at the oncoming passengers. I didn?t see the brunette that Edmund had mentioned. I made a mental note to stop believing in ghosts ? particularly those that claimed to have unusual haunting motives. I would have settled for a bit of old chain-rattling, to be honest. I suspect it would be a lot like the dripping faucet in the master bathroom. Got used to that after a while, didn?t I?

At the Hanover Street station, a short brunette boarded the train. She wore a blue denim skirt and a white sweater over a brown shirt with the faded name of a rock band on the front. She sat down, her eyes sliding across the train car. She stopped on me. We each looked away instantly, then looked up again, caught each other?s gaze and finally dropped our heads again.

I smiled to myself and wondered why I had never seen her before.

10:56pm

[dave-accampo]

This is something I have on authornation.com...

Finally getting back to these. Horatio, this is really nice. I really like the way you just drilled right down into this one moment and really lavishly illustrated it. For me the best part is when the narrator looks at his daughter and sees the differences in her features. That really rang true for me.

[dave-accampo]

hmmm.... apparently I'm really bad with computers. Tell me if this doesn't work:
http://www.authornation.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1571
Deezer, finally got around to giving "John of Nome" a good read through.

First, the story is well-written and detailed. Definitely places me there in the action. However, I must admit that it leaves me a little cold as a short story. You've got something huge and epic here, and too much is told as a quick series of events. For me, the short story works best when you bring it down to a small moment and you mine that for something really original. What I read here is a man with a mission...but I think I'd like to see more depth to him. I think you could take away a lot of the action points, and delve further into what this battle means to him. It seems to be all about saving the refugees so they can build a new kingdom elsewhere, but to make that work, I'd like to see more about him, and why HE feels that this is worth dying.

[valoharth]

OK, Paper's dedication inspired me, so I popped on some music and tried it again. I had nothing in mind when I started. Not sure how I feel about it.


Start 10:34pm

It was Tuesday, and Edmund was haunting me again.

I should explain. Edmund was not the type of ghost one usually finds clanking about in the dusty attic of old house, a fact he explicitly equivocated one morning over my ritual coffee and garlic bagel.

“There are ghost who haunt houses, of course,” said Edmund. He was sitting across from me. Morning sunlight shot through him from the kitchen window. He continued, “But they really tend to be rather anti-social. Very possessive. Terrible conversationalists. All ‘keep out!’ and ‘this house is mine!’ They’ll never come to a party, and on the rare occasion they can be convinced to throw one, they run around all night, checking to see if you’re using coasters or wrinkling the cushions on the sofa. Oh, you’ve got some cream cheese on your tie.”

I dabbed at the white smudge with a paper towel and asked him, “why exactly are you haunting me again?”

Edmund smiled, “I’m going to get you laid.”

“What?” I wasn’t offended by his statement, but it was a bit off-putting. “I’ve never…heard of a haunting to…you know…”

“Oh, I know,” said Edmund. “It’s really rather irregular. But I’ve been watching you, Alan, and I think I can help.”

“I’m going to be late for work,” I said. I stood from the table and tucked the morning paper under my arm. “I’ve got to catch the train.

“There’s a girl,” Edmund called after me. “Brown hair. Very pretty. Nose is a bit long and the nostrils flare too much for my taste, but…she watches you every day.”

“I find that hard to believe,” I called back and I jogged out the door.

“That’s why you aren’t getting laid!” he shouted…his hollow voice was faint, but easily distinguishable.

# # #


On the train, I tried to read the paper, but I couldn’t concentrate. A large woman in an orange dress coughed incessantly. I found the effect jarring. The doors opened and close at each stop and I found myself glancing at the oncoming passengers. I didn’t see the brunette that Edmund had mentioned. I made a mental note to stop believing in ghosts – particularly those that claimed to have unusual haunting motives. I would have settled for a bit of old chain-rattling, to be honest. I suspect it would be a lot like the dripping faucet in the master bathroom. Got used to that after a while, didn’t I?

At the Hanover Street station, a short brunette boarded the train. She wore a blue denim skirt and a white sweater over a brown shirt with the faded name of a rock band on the front. She sat down, her eyes sliding across the train car. She stopped on me. We each looked away instantly, then looked up again, caught each other’s gaze and finally dropped our heads again.

I smiled to myself and wondered why I had never seen her before.

10:56pm


I liked how this started, very good and interesting however the ending felt like you were running out of time so it didn't really feel well thought out, but then again the whole Idea of it was to do it in 20 min. I think the premeis would make a good comic book or a good movie, the diolog between the ghost and Allen is great, and there is a couple of lines in there that the Ghost had that reminded me of a Neil Simmon play but you know in a good way :)

[dave-accampo]

I liked how this started, very good and interesting however the ending felt like you were running out of time so it didn't really feel well thought out, but then again the whole Idea of it was to do it in 20 min. I think the premeis would make a good comic book or a good movie, the diolog between the ghost and Allen is great, and there is a couple of lines in there that the Ghost had that reminded me of a Neil Simmon play but you know in a good way :)

:) Thanks...yeah, this was a case where I just started with a single line and nothing else planned out. In fact, it wasn't even a line, just a thought that there's a ghost that doesn't haunt houses. So I just wrote, and it got to a point where I wasn't sure how far i could take it in 20 minutes. So that could definitely account for the feeling like I ran out of time. I decided that maybe it wasn't about what the ghost would do, but more about how it affected Alan...but I think maybe I put too much emphasis on the first part to make the latter part feel like a proper short story.

But I kinda like the premise, so I might re-tool this a little and see what I could do with it.

[valoharth]

2:15
“Do you have it?” The electronic voice hissed at Thomas from across the table. Thomas couldn’t help but roll his eyes as he realized that he had some how found himself in a situation that you only read about in those cheap pulp novels you buy at the news stands.
“DO you have it Mr. Smmzith?” The electronic voice hissed again, getting caught up on Thomas’s last name.
“Smith, how hard is that, you would think Omni Corp would have thought to program you to say Smith. I mean for Christ sake it’s the most common name on the planet! And yes I have your damn information, all 20 gigs of it, do you have my money?”
The Robot sitting across from Thomas smiled, which made Thomas very uncomfortable. No matter how much Omni Corp tried they could never get the Ongran series facial expressions right.
“Yes Mr. Smmzith, your money is here” the Robot held up a tiny thumb drive so Thomas could see it “Now where’s the-“
“Wait, I said Cash, cold hard cash!” Thomas paused for a second in disbelief that the words cold hard cash had left his mouth “I can’t use those bull shit credits and you damn well know it!
“Mr. Smmizith, credits are the only way we can pay you, Cash is too hard to come by for the amount you asked but my owner had taken in account that you might react this way so I was able to bring you half of what you asked for in cash” the Robot pulled out a stack of bills from a compartment in its chest. “This should be more then appropriate compensation”
“The hell it is, 20 gigs of information, you know how hard that is to get off of the CIA intersect? It’s not a walk in the park to hack that freaking thing! But, I’m sure we can come to a compromise here, give me the cash and the thumb drive and we will have a deal”.
“One second Mr. Smmzith I need to confer with my owner” The Robots eyes flashed for a second “Twenty five net works found, five unsecured connecting to strongest signal”
Thomas couldn’t help but smile at the thought of a robot connecting to the internet through an unsecured hotspot, they never wrote about that in those old pulp novels.
“Mr. Smmzith, your terms are Accepted if you would please place the thumb drive with the information into my external usb port I will give you your cash”.
Thomas got up out of his seat and walked over to the quirky robot and put the thumb drive into its usb port. He left his hand on the thumb drive and motioned for the robot to place the cash into his free hand.
“Say, Are you still connected to your owner?” Thomas used a calm voice as he asked the robot
“Why yes I am. Why do you ask?”
“Oh, I just wanted to tell you to inform him it was good doing business with him” With that Thomas flicked a switch on the thumb drive he inserted into the robot and with a small pop the robot powered down “and tell him I will be meeting him soon real soon”. Thomas pulls the usb thumb drive out of the now destroyed robot and places it in his pocket. “Real soon”
2:46


And now theres my hack at it, I went a minute over and I don't know if I fully made a story or not, I just kinda went with and idea and it wouldn't stop.

[esophagus]

31 minutes?! It's supposed to be twenty! Your story doesn't count.


I liked it, but I think it's too much in too little. It feels like a five minute webisode in the middle of a season of hour long sentences. A novella to hold you through the wait in the middle of an epic book series. There's more that we're not seeing, and this is just the middleground. I think that's a good thing, rather than a bad thing though. Just means you could take this idea past the twenty minute point if you wanted.

[valoharth]

31 minutes?! It's supposed to be twenty! Your story doesn't count.


I liked it, but I think it's too much in too little. It feels like a five minute webisode in the middle of a season of hour long sentences. A novella to hold you through the wait in the middle of an epic book series. There's more that we're not seeing, and this is just the middleground. I think that's a good thing, rather than a bad thing though. Just means you could take this idea past the twenty minute point if you wanted.

Ug, your right, man I must have been smoking Crack last night! Man, I need to find a job where I'm not pulling graveyards because much like a leader of a Super Power nation, my math got all fuzzy! No one let me near The red button that reads Missiles!

[dave-accampo]

The effect is still good though. Even if you break the rule, you've still forced yourself to make quick decisions and not overthink them.

But you guys will see this is a common occurence...it's hard to figure something that fits perfectly in that 20 minute slot. We write and our minds come up with big plots that can't be executed in the time slot. But, hey, there's nothing to say this can't be a starting point for a larger work.

But I have written a few that actually work almost as they are. But those are usually pieces where I focus on a very small moment. I'm a bit out of practice with that right now. I definitely need to do a few more of these. :)

[paper]

Oh you've said that? That was something that strongly came to mind when I was reading your stories, that you could write great children's books. But I didn't know if you'd take that the right way. There's definitley a way about children's literature where the world you put forth is just taken as so, as opposed to with adults where if it's out of the ordinary sometimes it takes some persuasion to bring them in.

Nah, it's definitely a goal of mine. The MFA program I'm looking at offers a children's lit concentration. I really connect with authors like Roald Dahl and Shel Silverstein who write from both kids and adults. Very little interest in writing the great american novel. YA all the way. So thank you.

[kwok_talk]

Nah, it's definitely a goal of mine. The MFA program I'm looking at offers a children's lit concentration. I really connect with authors like Roald Dahl and Shel Silverstein who write from both kids and adults. Very little interest in writing the great american novel. YA all the way. So thank you.
I love Mr. Silverstein, but the other day I looked at a book of his and there was one bio picture of his in one book that made him look like the freaking scariest serial killer ever.

[paper]

He was definitely a scary looking dude. Very intense.

[kwok_talk]

He was definitely a scary looking dude. Very intense.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2047/2119157492_c5e34d8083_o.jpg

This is where the sidewalk ends, mofo.

[fred]

I wrote a 20 minute scene. It's a re-imagining of an opening for a movie idea that I have. It probably sucks. I didn't edit too much as I wanted to stick to 20 minutes. Click here if you want to check it out. (http://thisweekincomics.com/Salesman.pdf) The formatting wasn't transferring correctly so I made a PDF.

Feel free to poke at me with sticks and make fun of me.

[paper]

Based on a true story, isn't it Fred?

[fred]

It's a version of a true story.

[fred]

So what do you think? Have I got a long life of Gilmore Girls fan fiction ahead of me? ;)

[paper]

I think you've got a nice situation going. But knowing you, I think you can dig deeper with the dialogue. The characters are saying things we'd expect them to say, but are there other choices which might work?

[fred]

thanks. I agree. I'm pleased when I consider how little time I spent on it, but as a finished thing? Not so much.

[fred]

20 Minute Prose - "Silence"

Light began to shine through the window as they drank their coffee. The man watched the sun begin to crest the distant hillside and thought of nothing. Silence sat between them thick as a large block of ice. The distance between them was far greater than it seemed.

The woman brought her cup to her lips. The low sound of coffee escaping the cup and cascading down her throat was the only sound in the room, save for their breathing. The woman watched the sun also. Its first dim struggling rays passed through the glass of their kitchen only to be met by a mixture of awe and silence. Always, there was silence.

They had been like this for the better part of half an hour. This was nothing new to them. Days passed without any conversation of meaning taking place. They had the sunrise to blame in the morning. There was no culprit in the evening, or at least none that they’d like to name.

The man took a sip of his coffee as the light grew stronger in the sky. He placed his cup back on the table. The sound of the cup meeting the table was the loudest noise that their house had heard to that point for the day. He turned and looked at the clock.

“Goin’ to work”, he said to his wife.
“I’ll see you later”, she responded.

The man walked out the door.

[esophagus]

Silverstein got me into poetry in the third grade, and it takes a lot to do that for a kid. I probably have him to thank for my being so diversely literate, and open to a lot of different mediums. I still love his stuff. I saw a biography on him the other day, I think i'll have to buy it. Looks like a good read.

[esophagus]

Ug, your right, man I must have been smoking Crack last night! Man, I need to find a job where I'm not pulling graveyards because much like a leader of a Super Power nation, my math got all fuzzy! No one let me near The red button that reads Missiles!I'm all jokes. As Dave said, it's the principle that counts, you managed to get a story in on a short time constraint.

[esophagus]

Gave this a shot. I hate hate hate the story. Not only is it a totally lame concept, it feels completely unfinished. I came up with everything on the fly, so there wasn't really na ending in sight.

start: 11:26

Oliver stood silently on the corner of 53rd and Ross where he could almost always be found. His cape fluttered softly in the wind, the bottom hem of it tattered and torn from all the times he stepped on it, making his way to the corner. His top hat tilted the slightest bit to the left, perched as if ready to swan dive to the sidewalk beneath his feet, it shone an off brown color, the suede having been worn out and ruined from all of his days standing on the corner in the rain.

Oliver was a magician. Arguably. the greatest magician who had ever lived. Every day hoards of people would rush past him on their ways to work, not stopping to drop a single penny in the small tin can that Oliver’s little sister had so beautifully colored and labelled “Can O’ Wonder”. Oliver would smile, no delusions of grandeur, no fantasies of the day he would go him with a full cup, just an earnest desire to make the world a better place. “Did you lose your flowers, ma’am? There seems to be a bouquet behind your ear.” “**** off David Blaine.”

With a sigh of relief he dredged on. Magic is an entirely selfless ability, an ability that only those like Oliver were blessed with, the magic needed that kindness to sustain itself. Each time he phased a quarter through his hand, or picked the six from a full deck of cards, he felt a small prick at his heart. It was unexplainable, and so annoying, but would be worth it one day when he got to see that sparkle in somebody’s eye.

After running home for a peanut butter and jelly sandwich between shifts one day, Oliver returned to see a man sitting at his corner, a small homemade easel nestled in next to him. The man wore a letterman jacket that fit him four sizes too small and read “Arnold McLaughlin” on the arm. “Hello Arnold, want to see a trick?” “Do I? Let’s see what you’ve got kid!” Oliver smiled, tapped his new friend on the nose with a small, plastic, magic wand. “Empty your back pocket” giggled Oliver. Arnold proceeded to empty his pockets revealing a small package of paintbrushes. “You could take over the world pulling stuff like that, son”. Oliver shrugged his shoulders, shying away from the crooked smile, which happened to be missing a few teeth, being shot his way.

End: 11:48

[valoharth]

Gave this a shot. I hate hate hate the story. Not only is it a totally lame concept, it feels completely unfinished. I came up with everything on the fly, so there wasn't really na ending in sight.

start: 11:26

Oliver stood silently on the corner of 53rd and Ross where he could almost always be found. His cape fluttered softly in the wind, the bottom hem of it tattered and torn from all the times he stepped on it, making his way to the corner. His top hat tilted the slightest bit to the left, perched as if ready to swan dive to the sidewalk beneath his feet, it shone an off brown color, the suede having been worn out and ruined from all of his days standing on the corner in the rain.

Oliver was a magician. Arguably. the greatest magician who had ever lived. Every day hoards of people would rush past him on their ways to work, not stopping to drop a single penny in the small tin can that Oliver’s little sister had so beautifully colored and labelled “Can O’ Wonder”. Oliver would smile, no delusions of grandeur, no fantasies of the day he would go him with a full cup, just an earnest desire to make the world a better place. “Did you lose your flowers, ma’am? There seems to be a bouquet behind your ear.” “**** off David Blaine.”

With a sigh of relief he dredged on. Magic is an entirely selfless ability, an ability that only those like Oliver were blessed with, the magic needed that kindness to sustain itself. Each time he phased a quarter through his hand, or picked the six from a full deck of cards, he felt a small prick at his heart. It was unexplainable, and so annoying, but would be worth it one day when he got to see that sparkle in somebody’s eye.

After running home for a peanut butter and jelly sandwich between shifts one day, Oliver returned to see a man sitting at his corner, a small homemade easel nestled in next to him. The man wore a letterman jacket that fit him four sizes too small and read “Arnold McLaughlin” on the arm. “Hello Arnold, want to see a trick?” “Do I? Let’s see what you’ve got kid!” Oliver smiled, tapped his new friend on the nose with a small, plastic, magic wand. “Empty your back pocket” giggled Oliver. Arnold proceeded to empty his pockets revealing a small package of paintbrushes. “You could take over the world pulling stuff like that, son”. Oliver shrugged his shoulders, shying away from the crooked smile, which happened to be missing a few teeth, being shot his way.

End: 11:48


I think what held you back was the detail, however it was very good. Your right it really didn't end and the last part of it seemed a bit blury still I think there is something there. You should give the 20 min thing another try and see what you come up with.

[esophagus]

I think what held you back was the detail, however it was very good. Your right it really didn't end and the last part of it seemed a bit blury still I think there is something there. You should give the 20 min thing another try and see what you come up with.
Thanks. It was actually an idea I had for a novella, which seems to be the stories downfall. I had a whole story, details included, inside my head. It's hard finding what can stay and what will go. Perhaps, someday, I'll write it the way it should be written.

[klwinters]

Were any more of those writing prompts that were posted earlier ever posted? Wow, that sentence was...interesting. The writing prompts have actually helped me a lot, and some friends and myself are starting a Writer's Workshop get together every week and we would love to have more of those.

By the way, great writing all.

[jaflanagan]

And now we begin to feel the true and deep lack of Paper.

[klwinters]

Emptiness....vast...emptiness....

[six-gun]

I know, such a gap.... Does anyone know why Paper left?

[esophagus]

I know, such a gap.... Does anyone know why Paper left?
Vaguely.

(10)

[dave-accampo]

Keepin' it goin'...

This one is a bit odd for me, but I think I like it. It may be just for me, though, because I feel it's really kind of a metafictional piece about writing a story.

Anyway, it was a bit longer than 20 minutes, but here are the results:

Start: 12:24am

The Story

How Smitty smokes a cigarette is: gentle, like he’s kissing it. Delicately propped between his index and middle fingers, his thumb occasionally stroking at the stubble on his cheek. His smoking relaxes me. It seems studied and purposeful; we’ve got all the time in the world.

I cradle the gun in my hands. It’s warm.

Smitty exhales. I watch the plume of smoke rise. It curls and dissipates. Only then does he speak. This feels old, like we’ve done this a hundred times already.

He regards his cigarette, glances back to me. I’ve tasted this cigarette one hundred times before, he smiles, still tastes just as good each time.

What do I do? I ask.

It’s your story, Mike, he answers, drags on his cigarette again. You tell me. Calm. Studied. Precise.

We take her…we take the body. We, uh, we wrap it up in plastic, I say. I study his face, search for affirmation.

You did that last time.

Then I don’t know!

Go back. Start at the beginning. Let the story unravel.

OK, so I walk in the door…

No, he interrupts, make it the third person – helps separate you from the story. You need to be able to take those leaps, Mike. You’re turning the same corner again and again.

I tell him the story.

Mike walks in and finds Lucy in bed with another man. It sounds so trite. It’s such a cliché. I tell Smitty. He says clichés are clichés for a reason and to keep going.

Mike walks in and finds Lucy in bed with another man.

What’s he look like? Asks Smitty.

He’s got a scar, I say.

Where? Asks Smitty.

Mike walks in and finds Lucy in bed with another man. He doesn’t see the man’s face, but low on his back is a scar. Perhaps from a knife fight. Perhaps a childhood accident. It’s a thin, raised line, punctuated by a red mole. The gun is in Mike’s waistband, stuck there from the night before. Knocked over a gas station…no, no that was story number ninety-nine. Jewelry store. Yeah. Diamonds. Diamonds for Lucy. It’s almost like a song. Mike was knocking over the jewelry store so he could get an engagement ring. He’s going to ask Lucy to marry him. They’ll drive to Mexico together with a bag full of diamonds and drink margaritas on the beach. He knows how much Lucy likes her booze.

But here she is, naked and sprawled over the man with the scar, bottle of cheap whiskey drained and hidden in twisted topography of the bed sheets. He’s got the ring in one hand, but his left hand goes for the pistol stuck there against his back, pressed between jeans and boxer briefs.

And then what?

Same thing, I say. Mike goes bam, bam, bam.

One hundred times.

How else would it go?

It’s your story, Mike.

There’s no other ending, I say. It’s the only outcome. Mike shoots, the gun jerks in his hands like it’s alive. It just what happens.

So that’s it then, says Smitty. End of story.

Yeah, I say.

Smitty ashes his cigarette in the ashtray on the bedside table.

OK, he says. He raises his own gun just a bit. I’ve got one for you. This is about a deadbeat who busts in on his girl and finds his buddy in bed with her. He recognizes his buddy from the scar on his back. Got it from the metal counters in the high school cafeteria when they got into a little scrap with Chuck Brewer, the captain of the football team. But what he doesn’t realize is that the buddy has his own piece, still on him from the heist the night before. From the bank heist.

Shit, I say. Heist. That’s a good one. But you have to know about safes and stuff.

Yeah, says Smitty, but that’s what the internet is for, right?

Guess so, I say.

Smitty squeezes the trigger and his gun jerks like its alive.

end: 12:55am

[paper]

Christmas--and, well, February--have come early--for I have returned. Though only to this thread for a bit.

Liked the story, Dave. Particularly that last line. And the bit about the warmth of the gun earlier on. Made me think of a Beatles tune. More on that after some exposition...

I was reading from a book of writing prompts called The Pocket Muse by Monica Wood. And, as is my disease, I thought of you people. There are a few games we might play here.

It's the holidays, of course, so you're probably stringing Kix cereal on the tree and the last thing you're thinking about is flash fiction. But we'll let these percolate for a bit and if you want to try them you can use these as a spark for the 20 minute exercise. Or you could devise some sort of laptop tray and try working on them in the bathtub during a five hour soak. Writing can be the most fun you'll ever have with your clothes off. I certainly hope not, but it's there.

Yes, anyway, prompts. I'll toss up four at a time. Some for fiction and at least one for the other thing.

1. Listen to a song. Write about it. Dramatize it or merely let it influence you. What if you chose a song you'd normally skip on a favorite album? Why is Happiness a Warm Gun? What lies in the jar by the door, Eleanor Rigby? Who's bound for the Last Train to Clarksville? Who gives a **** about an Oxford Comma?

2. Write about someone whose field of vision, either literal or figurative, has narrowed in the last six weeks.

3. Write about the worst visitor who ever darkened your door.

4. Create a set of circumstances in which a reasonable person would indeed cry over spilled milk.

I dare you. In fact I triple dog dare you.

[dave-accampo]

1. Listen to a song. Write about it. Dramatize it or merely let it influence you. What if you chose a song you'd normally skip on a favorite album? Why is Happiness a Warm Gun? What lies in the jar by the door, Eleanor Rigby? Who's bound for the Last Train to Clarksville? Who gives a **** about an Oxford Comma?

2. Write about someone whose field of vision, either literal or figurative, has narrowed in the last six weeks.

3. Write about the worst visitor who ever darkened your door.

4. Create a set of circumstances in which a reasonable person would indeed cry over spilled milk.

I dare you. In fact I triple dog dare you.

I like these. Doubt I'll get to anything for a couple of days, but I'll give one of these a shot...

[dave-accampo]

And welcome back, Paper. You should definitely stay in this thread, if no others...I know you've got a lot of writing goals you've set for yourself. We can help! :)

[fred]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I gives a **** about the Oxford Comma.

George, Louise, and I all care for it deeply.

see what I did there? I'm such a loser.

Honestly though, I do care. I come across writers that don't use it and it bugs me.

IT'S THE WAY IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE.

[paper]

I was just talking about this with a friend of mine who works as an editor of an alt newspaper. One of her interns continually uses the oxford comma (or serial comma as she referred to it). And this is a problem because publications don't use it. Takes up a character that might be better reserved for something like an 'h' or something like that. I use the oxford comma. I remember starting that in high school.

Here's another. How many spaces after a sentence? I was taught two. But I learned in college that they like one. I wonder how much harder it would have been to do a term paper if I didn't have all those extra spaces in there.

[fred]

I was just talking about this with a friend of mine who works as an editor of an alt newspaper. One of her interns continually uses the oxford comma (or serial comma as she referred to it). And this is a problem because publications don't use it. Takes up a character that might be better reserved for something like an 'h' or something like that. I use the oxford comma. I remember starting that in high school.

Here's another. How many spaces after a sentence? I was taught two. But I learned in college that they like one. I wonder how much harder it would have been to do a term paper if I didn't have all those extra spaces in there.

It's 2. There are supposed to be 2 spaces after a period, one after a comma, and one after a semi-colon. And as you can see, I'm in love with the Oxford Comma.

Double spacing your lines, in terms of paragraph formatting, is for mouth-breathing heathens.

**** MLA and APA, use Fred.

[esophagus]

Here's another. How many spaces after a sentence? I was taught two. But I learned in college that they like one. I wonder how much harder it would have been to do a term paper if I didn't have all those extra spaces in there.I have never ever been taught two. Every teacher I've ever had has told me one. In fact, does Microsoft Word not correct you when you put two? I thought it did. Interesting.

[fred]

It does not correct you.


(Primarily because there is supposed to be two. ;))

[esophagus]

It does not correct you.


(Primarily because there is supposed to be two. ;))Ha! I know that now, I just always assumed it did, because I've never known any way of doing it other than just one. That'll change. Starting now.:cool:

[paper]

The Canadian version of Word presumably commands a shorter leash. There's really no telling what you'll try to do to the language.

;)

[fred]

I just tested it too to make sure that I wasn't insane. Nope. It lets you do either. I think that it allows for both in cases where there is a dispute. Consistency is probably the most important thing (even if you're wrong and you use 1 space and no Oxford Comma).

smilies implied.

[fred]

I'm a really big dork. My mechanics aren't perfect, of course. The idiosyncracies of writing mechanics irritate the hell out of me though.

Case in point: Cormac McCarthy. I love his stories. I HATE his mechanics. I've spent so much time *****ing to my wife about it that she even sees it now. She was reading Child of God at work the other night and called me to point out a run-on sentence. I immediately recalled it.

IT'S NEARLY 100 words long. The next sentence is 3 words or something. Dude, let your editor edit you. The readers shouldn't have to be exposed to your rock star bullshit. I can get away with it, so I do it.

But the stories he writes are so good!

[esophagus]

Fred, your post only uses one space after each sentence.(space space)Hypocrite.

[fred]

The spacebar was pressed twice each time. I take no responsibility for what happens after I press "Post Quick Reply."

[esophagus]

Huh. You're right. I've been using two spaces in the last couple posts, and it only shows up as one. I am ditching the extra effort.

[paper]

I'm kicking around this idea of an FT sponsored workshop forum for writers and artists. I have a lot of ideas for threads, but I don't want to flood rev3 with them.

[fred]

that would be cool

[dave-accampo]

Like I said on Twitter, Paper, I'd be happy to help any way I can. I actually had a writer's forum set up years ago, and we had a lot of fun with it. Some good stories were borne from that forum.

[dave-accampo]

oops, duplicate post.

[esophagus]

That'd be awesome. I'm no professional, so I doubt I could help much, but I'd be up to doing whatever it is I can.

[dave-accampo]

I'm a really big dork. My mechanics aren't perfect, of course. The idiosyncracies of writing mechanics irritate the hell out of me though.

Case in point: Cormac McCarthy. I love his stories. I HATE his mechanics. I've spent so much time *****ing to my wife about it that she even sees it now. She was reading Child of God at work the other night and called me to point out a run-on sentence. I immediately recalled it.

IT'S NEARLY 100 words long. The next sentence is 3 words or something. Dude, let your editor edit you. The readers shouldn't have to be exposed to your rock star bullshit. I can get away with it, so I do it.

But the stories he writes are so good!

I'm on the fence about this, Fred. On the one hand, I HATE some of the lack of mechanics I see just in straight up letter writing from people of our generation. I hate that people say "would of." That's a real pet peeve of mine.

BUT, I think when it comes to fiction, you need to be able to break the rules. I've written many fragments and many run-on sentences on purpose. I've done it fully aware and purely for effect.

So while I lament bad grammar and punctuation, I'm all for breaking the rules. But I'm a firm believer in LEARNING the rules first, so you know what you're doing when you break them.

Incidentally, in the little corporate world I'm in, I generally see good grammar and punctuation from the executives, but I can honestly say I see both the 1 and 2 spaces and both styles of comma use.

[fred]

You young people and your rule breaking!

In my day, we did things right.

[valoharth]

It always angered me as a kid in high school english when we had to follow that damn MLA format. I got into arguments with most my english teachers about it, I'm a choatic person and I hate format and well anything that people would call order however I do understand why my teachers loved MLA its easy to read and when you have to look at a load of papers a week you want that.

But out of the arguments I got into with my teachers a pet peeve was developed "had had" I can't read books when the author uses it. I can't beleive how much that had gotten engraned into my brain, its to the point that I don't read R.A. Salvator anymore because he does that in every one of his books it seems like.

I had a point when I started but now I'm just annoyed just thinking about "had had"... stupid pet peeve...

[fred]

I've decided to run with Silence. You can see the original here (http://revision3.com/forum/showpost.php?p=254795&postcount=157). It was initially a 20 minute prose piece. I have about an hour into it now. This is very much a first draft. Please with the feedback. Thanks. Merry Christmas.

"Silence" V2


Light began to shine through the window as they drank their coffee. The man watched the sun begin to crest the distant hillside and thought of nothing. Silence sat between them thick as a large block of ice. The distance between them was far greater than it seemed.


The woman brought her cup to her lips. The low sound of coffee escaping the cup and cascading down her throat was the only sound in the room, save for their breathing. The woman watched the sun also. Its first dim struggling rays passed through the window glass of their kitchen only to be met by a mixture of awe and silence. Always, there was silence.


They had been like this for the better part of half an hour. This was nothing new to them. Days passed without any conversation of meaning taking place. They had the sunrise to blame in the morning. There was no culprit in the evening, or at least none that they'd like to name.


The man took a sip of his coffee as the light grew stronger in the sky. He placed his cup back on the table. The sound of the cup meeting the table was the loudest noise that their house had heard to that point for the day. He turned and looked at the clock.


"Goin' to work", he said to his wife.
"I'll see you later", she responded.


The man walked out the door and closed it behind him. He reached into his pocket to retrieve his keys. Finding them, he placed them in his jacket pocket. He walked down the steps and got into his car. Turning on the radio, he found a song that he could live with and backed out of the driveway.


He operated a lathe in a furniture factory. He'd take pieces of wood from the pile that they made for him and place them one at a time onto the lathe. As each piece of wood spun, he'd use his chisels to create the same pattern over and over again. There were times that he'd work on the same pattern for a full week at a time if they were filling a particularly large lot of tables or cabinets. The repetition could be maddening, but it was a job. It paid him and there was some nobility in it.


There were a few dozen men like him working at the factory. They were stunted but decent people. Some people believe that work like this will numb the mind. The man probably thought that there was some truth in that. He thought a lot of things. There wasn't much else to do there.


He worked through the morning. At lunch time, a bell sounded and he knew that he would be free for an hour. It wasn't much, but it was what he had. He took his lunch bag outside and sat under a tree. He'd brought a book with him as usual. The books filled his mind with things to think about when he was huddled over the lathe. They also told him about things that he'd never seen; about things that he'd never experience. The books made it possible.

He ate alone. He didn't do it out of contempt for his fellow workers. He just needed this to get through the day. This was his time to himself. This was his chance to be free.


The bell sounded again. The man began to rise, sullen but determined. He walked back to his lathe and threw his bag in the garbage. The afternoon would pass in a haze of table legs. The next bell that he heard informed him that it was time to go home. He wasn't sure that that was much better.


The man's mind raced on the way home. It was a jumbled mass of half-digested thoughts from the day, items from work, and what he could talk about with his wife when he got home. It was a cold, bleak Wednesday. His wife would be going out with her friends Thursday night. Sadly, he looked forward to Thursday nights. These were the nights that he didn?t have to find things to try to talk about with her. It felt so futile anyway. None of his ideas ever came to anything. Some people think that conversations that last less than a minute aren't actually conversations at all. The man thought that they might be right.

He pulled into his driveway. The lights were on in the kitchen and the living room too. He walked in the door and his wife looked up from the television just long enough to grunt a greeting. It was an odd sound; one that the man couldn't equate to another in nature.


"Hello", said the man. It was perfunctory.
"There's pizza in a box in the oven", she said.
"Sounds good. You already eat?"
"Yeah. I ordered it about an hour ago. It should still be good though."
"Great. Thanks."


The man walked through the living room and down the hall. He entered the kitchen and took the pizza out of the oven. He heated up three pieces and ate silently at the table. He heard the sounds of the television from the other room as he ate.


After his dinner, he grabbed a book and went into their bedroom. He read until he fell asleep. His wife joined him sometime later, or at least he imagined that she had.

[fred]

I've been messing with the formatting on my post for a few minutes now and I'm still not happy with it. So, if it bugs you too, you can download a pdf version here (http://thisweekincomics.com/silence.pdf).

[paper]

You're on a roll, Fred, so I don't want to meddle too much. I like this story quite a bit and I hope you continue with it.

My one suggestion is to focus on the moment and details and to perhaps cut lines that are abstract ("Silence sat between them thick as a large block of ice. The distance between them was far greater than it seemed."). Lines that are about telling and not showing, if that makes sense. I'm not sure how far to go with that, but it might be worth a try. It just seems that the directness of the narrative benefits from that kind of cut. Don't want to show your hand too much. It's a challenge to tell a story entirely through actions, but challenges are always good.

[fred]

Thanks. Those are the kind of comments that I need. I have a tendency to do that so I definitely see where you're coming from. I have difficulty believing in the audience (if that makes sense). I want so badly for them to get what's going on that sometimes I risk talking down to them. It's not a conscious thing. It's just what happens.

I am on a roll. I don't want to specify a length out loud yet because I foolishly feel like that will cause me to founder, but there is a whole world forming in my mind. The characters are becoming real. The plot is fairly mapped out at this point and now I just have to actually write it. We're still very early into the "sowing the seeds" and introductions.

[valoharth]

Okay so I just chose the song that I was listening to at the time which happened to be Free Until They Cut Me Down by Iron and Wine and well it kind of had bad imagery in it. It pulled up images of all the murders that happen via hang mans noose because of racism so I did a story biased upon that. Also I managed to pull it into a universe that I have created and hope to do one day as a manga style comic (however not limiting myself to the manga style, I just cant shake the image of how this story would look in manga form). Now the song is pretty vauge and light so I really didn’t want to darken it too much, there is a bit of humor in it but I think it speaks true. Anyway I’m sure it could use some major rewrites and what not but that’s not really the point of Papers exercise as so much its ment to just get a finished story on paper (okay I think I just confused myself lol) so read it if you want if not oh well. If you haven’t guessed by now I chose to go with the Lyric exercise and I included the lyrics below so you have a clue to what I’m talking about or if you want to just listen along download the song on Emusic or Itunes. I’m sure it’s on both.


Iron and Wine Free until the cut me down

When the men take me to the devil tree
I will be free and shining like before
Papa don’t tell me what I should’ve done
She’s the one, She's the one who begged me
"Take me . . . Take me home"

When the wind wraps me like the reaper’s hand
I will swing free until they cut me down
Papa don’t tell me what I could’ve done
She's the one, She's the one who begged me
"Take me . . . Take me home"

When the sea takes me like my mother’s arms
I will breathe free as any word of God
Papa don’t tell me what you would’ve done
She's the one, She's the one who begged me
"Take me . . . Take me home"

“Here’s what I don’t get” One Jeph Lewis said to me, “I have to stay here until someone cuts me down?”
“Yes” I quickly lit the cigarette I had just rolled before the match burned out.
“So um… why don’t you just cut me down?” I looked up at the man whos body just swung in the breeze. He was dressed in what I could tell his Sunday best and some damn fancy shoes, looked like they were just bought.
“I can’t interact with the living world like that, it’s against the rules. We have to wait until some one living does it” I inhaled the smoke and held it in my lungs for a second and let out a huge puff. Jeph was starting to become a pain; they all become a pain eventually.
“But that could take days!” Jeph’s voice had that whiney tone that really isn’t something you’d expect to hear from a grown man, and as you may have guessed it was annoying as hell. This assignment was going to a difficult one. “Why doesn’t my soul just leave the body at death? That’s what my dad use to tell us and he should know he’s a preacher!”
“Well, you’re in a world of shock son, the afterlife isn’t exactly what they wrote about. There are no nine circles or paradise. The only religion that came close was Hinduism and even they were far off.”
“Hinduism? Heathens if you ask me!”
I took another puff of the cigarette and sighed. I couldn’t help but wonder why did I always get stuck with the difficult cases like this? That Gorilla Paul must have it in for me.
“Well” I flicked the cigarette to the ground “you might as well tell me how did you get your self at the end of that rope. I think its going to be a while before anyone does anything to your body”.
“Its simple, I hung my self” Jeph said so matter of fact it peaked my interest. Suicide wasn’t something I deal with, people who kill them selves… well I’m not going to get into it but lets just say a reaper deals with.
“Why would you go and do a dumb dip *** thing like that?” I couldn’t help but ask him since curiosity got me hook line and sinker so to say. I looked up in time to see Jephs tears being carried off in the wind.
“Sharon, my wife to be… she… she was taken away from me” I could tell Jeph was trying to keep his poise, minus the tears of course.
“How’d she die?” I felt like a jerk asking because obviously it was a hard subject for him.
“Lynched, by a mob of men parading around in white robes. They said something about doing Gods work, that…” He stumbled over his words “That folks like me weren’t to marry folks like her. I told them they were wrong, my daddy said it was okay, he should know he’s a preacher! But they didn’t believe me, they said that no… no ****** knew anything about gods plan!”
“That’s… I’m sorry man”
“Thanks” Jeph gave me a sincere smile. His smile gave me a hint of déjà vu, I got a flash of a woman in her wedding dress hanging from this very tree, I had reaped her two weeks back. It was Sharon a woman who was murdered on her wedding day.
“Jeph, I have something to tell you, I was there when Sharon died” Jephs eye’s lit up. I couldn’t really tell if they were lit with fury or joy.
“You…You were there when she died?”
“Yes, I don’t know why I didn’t make the connection when you said her name, it was an unusual reaping. You see we get called to this tree a lot, its called the devil tree because of how many people get murdered here and well it was unusual because not many women get killed here”
“So you talked to her, was she okay? Oh god did she go on to a better place?”
“Yes she was okay and yes she did go to a better place. I’ve never seen some one so accepting of death as she was, she simply looked at me and said Take me… Take me home” This time when I looked back at Jeph I saw tears of joy pouring out and it hit me, his reasoning in killing himself wasn’t our of self pity but he did it to make sure Sharon was alright. That’s why his soul wasn’t lost. This was one unusual case for sure.
“Oh look here comes my dad, guess he got the note” Jeph said happily now that he knew that Sharon was in a better place.
Mr. Lewis with tears in his eyes, managed to get Jeph’s body out of the tree to the ground. He knelt over his son and yelled at him.
“Damn it Jeph, you should have left well enough alone! Why’d you go and do something stupid like this you dip ****!” and with that Mr. Lewis picked up Jeph’s body and carried it down the hill while Jeph’s spirit remained next to me.
“Well…” I said “Is there anything you with to wrap up here? Any one else you wish to see before we cross you over?”
“The only person I would want to see just carried my body down the hill, besides I don’t want to listen to him telling me what I should have done. Well Mr. Reaper Take me… Take me home”

[valoharth]

"Silence" V2



The man probably thought that there was some truth in that.




Fred the only thing I can see in this is this sentence I think you could probably do something better with this, right now something about it just seems off but that may just be me. I wouldn't use "The man" in it ether because its safe to assume the reader knows who your talking about already a simple He should do.

[valoharth]

Anyway, it was a bit longer than 20 minutes, but here are the results:
[/B]

Who care when you come out with something like this!

I really really liked it Dave, I think there is more you could do with this one and you should!

[esophagus]

So far this thread has made me do nothing but seriously doubt any writing talent I thought I had, or at the very least make me realize my skill does not lie in writing quickly. I tried my hand at a little bit less of a story. A simple narrative, rant. Came to me in a dream, or, more accurately, a Morrisey song. Let's hope this one works out a little better. Here goes:



Start -> 11:53

Did you know that if the sun were to burn out at this very second, we wouldn’t even know about it? If our planet’s only life source ran out, we would all continue to exist with as much reason and care as we had only seconds ago. There would be a seven minute period where we all drank beer, picked up our kids from school, went to the movies with friends, did whatever it is we do with our daily lives. At the end of this seven minutes we would begin to notice everything go pitch black, and screams of terror would run through the streets. “It’s the second coming of Christ!” “It’s a lunar eclipse!” “Hurry, loot the stores!” “We’re all going to die!” Insignificant screams of insignificant life forms. How could the direction of our lives change so drastically within a matter of seven minutes? The same amount of time as a slightly long commercial break between the nightly Seinfeld re-runs. It couldn’t. Seven minutes ago we just didn’t know it yet. We were slowly dying, we were just doing so ignorantly.

Or what about a lightning strike. Every time lightning strikes it moves silently and swiftly to the ground before charging its way violently back to the clouds. It is not until this charge backwards that we notice a flash. So, lets say a man is struck by lightning. Would it not be true to say that he was electrocuted seconds before he, or any of us, knew it was happening? His alarming shrieks just a late notification of the bolt that surged through him while he told you how much he loved to run around, singing, in the rain.

Sorry William, it was really nothing. Your life, and our worlds existence as a whole, was not just insignificant, it was completely unnecessary, and ill-fated from the get-go. This does not, however, mean our glass is half empty, this means that every time we spilled we had no reason to cry. There is extreme solace to be found in this knowledge. All of our fears are little more than weeds sprouting up from insecurities about the various ways we could day, or in some way ruin another persons life, day, or singular moment. Knowing the full-scale of our insignificance is the equivalent of a gardener killing the weedy mess where your daisies once grew. In fact, that gardener will probably manage to convince those pesky weeds that they weren’t really there in the first place. Imagine, for a moment, being deathly afraid of spiders, and learning that spiders can’t have any positive or negative effect on your life, only hold it to its original and true path. Imagine being agoraphobic, scared you may do some sort of damage if you go out in public, and someone simply says to you “Hey, we don’t actually care if you do, but you probably won’t anyways”. The pressure it could alleviate.

We are meaningless. We are useless. We are drones. We are free!

End -> 12:16

[valoharth]

esophagus

Yea I know what you mean about feeling a bit overwhelmed especaly by Dave and Paper!

But you know what I feel a bit jelouse of you too cuz your little story was good and I wish I could think of stuff like that! (Just a side note though, kinda morbid way to start Christmas huh? lol) I think its solid writing and you defently have something going there for a fantastic little short story. It reminded me a bit of Alan Moore's take on Majestic in the TBP Wild World, the only thing good in that whole Trade, Im not even going into the whole Spawn/Wild C.A.T.S. cross over oi vey. I really feel you should take a couple days or weeks and come back to this and look it over and see what you could do better or word stuff differently.

[esophagus]

Thanks. Internal dialogue is something I've always felt I'm good at. The stuff the reader hears, but nobody else. I thought a quick little short story of purely that would be good.

[dave-accampo]

I've decided to run with Silence. You can see the original here (http://revision3.com/forum/showpost.php?p=254795&postcount=157). It was initially a 20 minute prose piece. I have about an hour into it now. This is very much a first draft. Please with the feedback. Thanks. Merry Christmas.

I want to get to comments on everyone's stuff, but it may take me a little bit. It's laaaaate on the 25th, but I can't sleep, so lemme start here.

Fred, I'm digging this. I like what you've got going on. For me, the story really comes alive at the point that the man goes to work -- and that's what is supposed to happen, as that's kinda where he has the most life. I guess maybe if I suggested anything it might be to see what happens if you tone down some of the explanations about how he acts with his wife, and just let the scenes tell the story. Does that make sense? Like just show us this empty, empty scene, then give us a few more concrete details when he's at work to show how this is a different sort of aspect of his life, and then go straight back into that final scene at home without too much explanation of what's happening. I think just showing the scene...the grunted greeting, the heating up of the pizza...it's all very strong and it drives the point home quite well.

Good stuff.

And good stuff from everyone. I really like the way this thread is becoming a cool little outlet for creativity.

More to come.

[fred]

thanks Dave. I agree. Modifications are planned.

[fred]

This is the next section. I'm trying to show rather than tell.

Silence section 3, 1 and 2 available above




The woman awoke early with a start. She quickly realized that she was in her recliner. The night sky was just beginning to relent. Awake now, she silently tried to summon the energy to rise and get in the shower. A lot of people think that bodies take longer to wake than minds. She certainly agreed with their assessment. Her body stiff with the rest she'd had in the recliner, she arose feeling gravity more consciously than she was comfortable with. Her muscles burned and ached like they'd been bound with vines by the primitives that come to you in the night and bring sleep.

She stumbled down the hall to the bedroom. She stared at the man sleeping. His mouth was open just a little, and there was a pool of drool collecting on his pillow. "Just like a dog," she thought as she crossed the room to the closet to collect her clothes for the day.

She grabbed an outfit for the day and then noticed something on the floor. It was a lone brown loafer. She picked it up and walked over to the bed. She placed her clothing down on the dresser. Her arm came back with the shoe in it and swung forward into the man's back with a loud "THUD". He stirred. She smiled. It was time for a shower.

[fred]

I just found it; the missing middle section of the story I'm writing. I know how it begins and I know the ending, but I was a bit fuzzy on how I'd create a middle and bridge the two. I just found it in the shower. I was soaping up and singing too loudly when finally it struck me.

I'm off now. It's perfect.

[valoharth]

"Just like a dog," she thought

Her arm came back with the shoe in it and swung forward into the man's back with a loud "THUD". He stirred. She smiled. It was time for a shower.

I've been trying all night to get at this but WORK kept getting in the way, I think I was in my office for a total of 2 hours. Everything in 10 min chunks!

Anyway I read through it and thought it was good there were two points that stuck out in my head. Now maybe I'm channeling my acting teacher in college or something he taught me stuck but it really doesn't matter how I came up with it the point is I saw the two parts I have quoted and thought to myself "What is driving her to do this, what is motivating her, What is her G.O.A.T.? if you will (G.O.A.T. Goals, Other, Action, Tactics, its just a stupid acronym that was taught to me and stuck it just means what are her goals who or what is stopping her from archiving the goal, what action does she take and what Tactics are use pretty simple huh? Those Acting classes really helped me get a hold on creating characters better!)

Now on:
"Just like a dog," she thought

This part kind of felt half finished, I didn't get a sense of why she would say this or better yet of how she was saying it. Was she being mean spirited when she thought it, Bitter when she thought it, Cute when she thought it, Amusing her self when she thought it. Now I think it was suppose to be bitter but I could be wrong.

And On
Her arm came back with the shoe in it and swung forward into the man's back with a loud "THUD". He stirred. She smiled. It was time for a shower.

Now this part relates to the rambling I did above, basically I was trying to figure out her goal of doing this. Again I asked myself if she was doing this to be Mean or Cute however I think that this part is pretty much good as is it really relies on the other part above and the tone of that. It could use a bit more reworking or maybe just a bit more information

Anyway Fred I'm thinking this is turning out great, its interesting and fun. I really want to see what else you do on this because I'm intrigued where you go with it. Hope this helps or makes sense I have been up all night and I was exerting myself trying to close a train door for 20 mins with no progress but eh cant win em all.

[fred]

Thanks. I get what you're saying. Her motivations will be more fully developed as the story progresses. At this point, you need to know that it is mean-spirited and it comes from an angry, bitter place. The whys and wherefores are coming. I've made some more progress since this. I'll probably post more soon.

[valoharth]

So I was wondering if anyone has any good non-linear writing exercises they know of. Some of the hang ups that most beginning writers get is that they feel that they have to write at the beginning then work to the end. Most don't realize that they can work on the middle if they know how the middle is and work up or down from there. Or they can do the ending then move around from there.

Ive thought of one that might be a good try

Okay write a story with its last sentence as "I'll see you in hell". Try starting at the end and work your way back from there. The only rule is you can't add or take away from that sentence and you can't add anything after. Its the end of your story. It should only be as long as it needs to be and nothing more.

[drwally]

So I was wondering if anyone has any good non-linear writing exercises they know of. Some of the hang ups that most beginning writers get is that they feel that they have to write at the beginning then work to the end. Most don't realize that they can work on the middle if they know how the middle is and work up or down from there. Or they can do the ending then move around from there.

Ive thought of one that might be a good try

Okay write a story with its last sentence as "I'll see you in hell". Try starting at the end and work your way back from there. The only rule is you can't add or take away from that sentence and you can't add anything after. Its the end of your story. It should only be as long as it needs to be and nothing more.

Wow, Valoharth, open invitation? Thanks, here comes Wally. I posted a version of this post on the "Me Writer You Draw" thread, but I have edited considerably and added to make it relevant here.

Linear Vs. Non-Linear: I think the mistake is to think that writing from "beginning then work to the end" is actually a good "linear way" to go. If the purpose of writing is to say something about life and existence beyond just a description of an accidental sequence of events that occur one after the other, then writing from beginning to end is a bad way to go. However, there is a way to work out a very sparse but solid "linear backbone" that can be fleshed out later. In other words, writing a story outline (beginning to end) is like laying out life as you see it. Then going back and filling it in, and making many big changes as you see fit is akin to the process of building up our understanding of things in a very circular, non linear fashion, constantly moving back and forth through the time of the story, changing how things "work out in end and all the way along the process, past is present, present is past, all is one, one is all, if you see me in hell you are living an illusion as hell is an illusion of this transitory world inside the "thinking box," getting really buddhistic here." (sorry).:o

G.O.A.T. - Heh. I think you would agree the problem with acronyms is that the acronymic character of the method taught rather obscures what the teacher is actually trying to convey, which is actually an important thing to convey, maybe? Anyway, I would say a character's "G.O.A.T" should be sitting in the writer's back-story (and subtext), maybe just peering out from time to time in a sly way in the story, but better developed on a separate page than the actual story itself. If all is well developed in the story itself, even just subtle clues and sly hints will make the reader aware and feeling that G.O.A.T. 100%.

I think a problem prose writers, script writers, and comic writers can all have in common is: too much dialogue, exposition, interior monologue, and/or descriptive passages that do not do this essential thing - serve the overall story, develop the characters, convey who they are to the reader, and help it move along, rather than just take up space and bog down the piece. I just read a novel that did something very nice with interior monologue - written in 3rd person, but from the POV of the main protagonist - a character is described in rather unflattering terms towards the beginning of the novel. Later the protagonist realizes he is no different from the man he looked down on. Wonderful to read, no doubt made possible by the novelist plotting out his story very carefully (on a separate piece of paper that will never leave his office, not in the novel itself).

McKee's book was helpful to me on the point of writing everything too much "from the beginning," but good advice boiled down: instead of thinking of a story as a words spoken or descriptors one after the other, a story is a series of interactions - even if the interaction is with their environment on an interior, emotional level (which can change over time) rather than with another person. Then you start thinking of how a character would react as a human rather than as a "written/drawn construct," does that make sense?

So, this begins with throwing out the idea of the "first draft" as dialogue or series of descriptive paragraphs. Start writing a story in simple sentences - "Person X does this thing, then this happens." (Keep each sentence as simple as possible, active verb tense only, absolute minimal descriptors) As you go along, since you have the story thought out, you will know the major plot points that you want to hit after a series of interactions (could be character to character, character to environment, character to him/herself, or character to environment). If these sentences don't hit the larger plot you had in your head when they should, or there are big gaps somewhere, then you probably want to revisit things and think a bit - but now you have a good solid idea of how things "unravel" on paper, with no time wasted on detailed descriptions of something and dialogue that goes nowhere. A sequence of simple sentences like this will make a "first draft" where any problems will arise before you write too much, or even feel like you are writing a "short story or novel" per say but you actually are, in a much more meaningful way.

If a certain bit of dialogue or description of a person or environment you came up with seems great, hang on to it. It can come in any part of the story, so you can use it (or place it) more freely when you have a more solid story plotted out. It should match up to story and character, and if it doesn't at the end of the day, then (and this kills me, knife through the heart) stick it in a file folder for later use.

I have a tendency to "over-think" too much all at once, and develop things on my head in a dynamic way but more static on paper, does that make sense? So this process is not only helpful, but actually gives me really neat new ideas and insights.

So dialogue and descriptive passages? If this process (plotting with the simple sentences, or "plot points") allows you to get a good grip on the flow of the story, then you can get more creative with the dialogue and descriptive passages, and do fun things like hiding what people really think behind what they say, avoid too much exposition, foreshadowing events, keep it simple, and basically as long as you can get from Point A to Point B then the dialogue and descriptions becomes your tool and not your evil master, does that make sense? That's my feeling, maybe just me, but maybe there are some other people who have problems writing a coherently compelling narrative who can relate.

Here is an example to go with my post just before this one,

I came up with it on the fly- Man tells another to **** off, angry reply from the other. The other person picks up a weapon. (fight? think about that later in the writing process, write more before deciding this). The Man runs down the stairs. He runs by a half open door - old lady with cat with a big, evil smile stands in a doorway as he runs past (who is she? put that in backstory). He runs out into the street. He sees a fleet of black helicopters in the sky. A woman in the cockpit of a helicopter talks with her commander at mission control. Commander says get to the airport on time, before (insert name here) gets there. At the airport Fred thinks about when the black helicopters will arrive, and wonders why Wally stole his black helicopter idea. Take it from there, flesh it out as you like. Know the ending before you write the beginning is often a pretty good rule, but like all rules, not sacrosanct. Just developing at this stage, not wasting time with minute details that may or may not be important later.

Have at it, great thread.

[humphrey-lee]

Oh. People post samplings here? hell, I might have to pay attention to this...

[paper]

If I could create a type of aerosol spray...a McKee repellent, if you will.... ;)

[valoharth]

To Dr. Wally and whoever wants to read it:

Yea I think its a problem for Teachers and Coaches in truth, they have to teach you something that is complex however they only get a small amount of time to do it so they have to comprimise some of the quality for something that can be picked up in a short matter of time. G.O.T.E. (I messed it up, I actualy dusted off my college book last night and looked at its Goal, Other Tactics and Expectations.) is a pretty good tool when acting but as far as acting goes I'm more in the David Mammont camp as in just shut the **** up and do it. But then again I can go on for hours about this...

Anyway I really found your post useful Dr. Wally!

[valoharth]

Because Im a glutton for punishment and bored at work heres another attemped at a 20 min story... still had to go over to finish it though one of these day Im going to cut it under the 20 mark!

8:39

I took the 8:30 train out of town, well it was more like the 8:50 by the time it showed up at the station. I hear in Tokyo the train system there is never late, heck if a worker showed up late to work they couldn’t use the excuse “My train was late”. Thank god I live in America huh!
I like trains, for the most part, it’s the best place to people watch. Most of my subjects are unaware that they are even being looked at while they go on doing whatever it is they are doing. Today, as I was about to find out, was going to be very interesting.
As soon as I stepped foot on the train I was approached by a man that reeked of whisky and well for sake of your lunches I won’t go into detail.
“It looks like rain today!” The old man that reeked of whisky exclaimed. I couldn’t help but look out the window and notice the clear blue sky with nothing short of a couple jet streams blocking its deep blue. “YES! It is going to rain today young man, you can believe it or my name isn’t Theodor Roosevelt!”
“Well, Mr. Roosevelt” I started to say but was cut off
“Mr. President will do” The old man grabbed his coat and struck a very Roosevelt-ish pose. Great I thought, one of these guys.
“Excuse my rudeness Mr. President, but I don’t see a cloud in the sky. How can it rain with out clouds?” I don’t really know what possessed me to prod this old whisky stunk man into a conversation or to challenge him I only knew I probably shouldn’t because crazy people can be a bit um unpredictable.
“Watch it! It will happen!” The old man scooted off the train and took to his own dealings.
I quickly found my seat and sat back to enjoy the view. I saw people at their most secure, thinking that they weren’t being watched and not being paid attention to. It was during my observation of one young man bopping his head to a song that I couldn’t even hear when it happened. It seemed more like a dream then a real event. I heard a crash as if something hit the side of the train and I went flying in the air as the train car went for a flip. It must have rolled twice before it stopped. Luckily no one was hurt when it rolled over.
I climbed to my feet and looked at a window pointing at the sky and that’s when I knew what had hit the train car, the sky was ablaze with meteorites shooting across the sky. I guess the old man was right, we we’re due to get some rain today. After all you shouldn’t ever doubt a meteorologist.

9:04

Okay went a bit over and sorry about the pun at the end had to hehehe. Man its freaking hard to keep a full story in 20 mins especially when you try not to have anything when you go in. The ending really came to me at the last few minutes and the beginning was just me writing to write.

[valoharth]

Okay interesting question pop'ed into my head today

As I was untieing a hand break on a train car I got to thinking about The Kindle and other devices that allow electronic "books" to be transported around relitively easy and how will this affect writers. We all know its the future of book writing (however its more then likely that its going to be somekind of PDA phone mp3 player that does everything except make chille and Fries) and I was wondering if the format of how books are writen or presented will chaged? I don't know if that question really made sense or not but let me try and rephrase it, How will the new electronic book be exploited or what are some ways you see it to be used in diffrent ways other then how it is used?

[fred]

I'm excited by the Kindle. I'll be getting one as soon as the number of books offered goes up. I don't see it changing writing though.

[drwally]

To Dr. Wally and whoever wants to read it:

Yea I think its a problem for Teachers and Coaches in truth, they have to teach you something that is complex however they only get a small amount of time to do it so they have to comprimise some of the quality for something that can be picked up in a short matter of time. G.O.T.E. (I messed it up, I actualy dusted off my college book last night and looked at its Goal, Other Tactics and Expectations.) is a pretty good tool when acting but as far as acting goes I'm more in the David Mammont camp as in just shut the **** up and do it. But then again I can go on for hours about this...

Anyway I really found your post useful Dr. Wally!

Thanks!
Actually, I'm a teacher, and after all these years teachers that complain about "not having enough time to explain" ... oh don't get me started. Class time should be student time, not teacher time. Put GOTE or whatever on the board, put in small groups, develop two characters with your partners, I will come around to check on your progress and give helpful hints, "GO."

GOTE or GOTE whatever, translated, is good advice: -Goals, Other, Action, Tactics, or maybe -- what are his/her desires, who are the other people in his/her life, what does he/she do to get her goals/desires if anything at all (maybe include habits and ruts), and what kinds of tactics does he/she use to get what he/whe wants. I would suggest people write like a mini-biography of a character, including what they want, desire, have, don't have, who they like, and don't like. And don't think about this as a the story at all. Think of this is a tool to get you thinking. Then write a mini-biography, including the same type of things, of someone else. I like to draw charts that show how people are connected by family and/or socially and/or through work, same thing really.

There, we just explained it, good advice, it took no time at all.:)

Here is something I got from Valorharth's idea of "I will see you in Hell" (write a story) - My idea - the 3 temptations of the Christ are rather similar to the 3 temptations of the Buddha, but put aside religious study, here are their various versions - pride, greed, desire, lust, fear, need to conform to social expectations, which basically conformity (yeah, last one really is in there). That's fertile ground to first develop a character, then write a story about two people caught up in these traps of the human condition, the various temptations can really clash with each other too (lust vs. greed, pride vs. conformity, take your pick) "I will see you in hell."

Put two characters you have developed in a room or sequence of events, write about it, there's your story. After you have the back-stories down on paper, or even in simple notes or whatever shorthand you prefer or is most comfortable, then you can really get thinking about how your two people would relate to each other. Talking to each other, not at each other. in the case of a prose piece, how they might think about each other, even. Not think at each other, but about each other.

Whatever the acronym is, well, whatever, just spell it out and Valoharth makes a good point. But just an acronym, like just a spray, doesn't help. Oops, did I just spray? ;)

BTW, as a teacher I have learned that students love process and structure orientated stuff as long as (1) the process is clear and easy to follow and (2) is more about liberating them to express themselves to say what they want to say, rather than the structure for its own sake. The two extremes of "High Concept Approach" (Huh? But what am I supposed to do?) and "Rules That Must Be Followed and label the bits to show you followed the rules in great detail" can turn students right off.

[valoharth]

I'm excited by the Kindle. I'll be getting one as soon as the number of books offered goes up. I don't see it changing writing though.

I got to thinking about it more and I think it could change it a bit, with stuff like the Kindle you could subscribe to an authors blog or some other website thing for a couple bucks a months or whatnot and basicly the writer could do serialized storys with a chapter relesed every day or week or whatnot. It would actualy be more of a return to how it use to be like how Dickeins use to write his stories and what not. I think there is potential in the ebook format that probably has yet to be unlocked or thought of.

[fred]

that's true but the internet hasn't brought that out yet

[drwally]

that's true but the internet hasn't brought that out yet
Bingo, that's where I'm at. I take in a huge amount of text information via my computer monitor, but boy oh boy do my eyes hurt. Any excuse to take a break and read something on real wood pulp paper and I love it. Or watch a video, or listen to music or sound only. I think this explains why podcasts are busting out all over. Outside the house, I take a nice, light book, bound, printed on paper. The idea of portable ebooks is great, but developing a device where the comfort factor is as high is paper is still, IMO, a ways to go before I even consider it.

[paper]

The Kindle uses new digital ink technology which is much easier on the eyes than a computer display.

[dave-accampo]

I've been thinking about this a bit since the advent of e-readers. Similar questions could be applied to movies, etc. But with books...

Yes, technology will change the distribution method, and that might lead to more serialization. I could also see added extras, DVD style, where you could click a link at the end of a chapter and get behind the scenes stuff. It wouldn't be that different from footnotes, but you could use links to include photos, greater lengths of text, etc.

I could see it going as far as using links to jump to different chapters to create different kinds of reading experiences (a variation on "Choose Your Own Adventure"), but I don't think that would ever become too widespread.

Ultimately, a story is a story is a story. I think no matter what medium or technology, you still have to be able to create a convincing and engaging narrative, and if you're doing it in prose, that's always going to be the main thrust. Sure, distribution might change, format might change, but authors will still have to write a story with a beginning, a middle, and an end.

[drwally]

Ultimately, a story is a story is a story. I think no matter what medium or technology, you still have to be able to create a convincing and engaging narrative, and if you're doing it in prose, that's always going to be the main thrust. Sure, distribution might change, format might change, but authors will still have to write a story with a beginning, a middle, and an end.

My Reaction - Standing Ovation. :)

Sure, digital ink may be easier on the eyes, but the very word "digital" makes me not want to check how much it is, then compare with how much a book printed on paper is. How much is the Kindle? (my eyes already hurt too much to be wandering more over the internet).

[valoharth]

My Reaction - Standing Ovation. :)

Sure, digital ink may be easier on the eyes, but the very word "digital" makes me not want to check how much it is, then compare with how much a book printed on paper is. How much is the Kindle? (my eyes already hurt too much to be wandering more over the internet).

400 clams man, thats the biggest problem about the Kindle

[paper]

I'm not saying the Kindle is an improvement over print media. Look at my username. I'm just saying it's a compelling piece of tech.

[drwally]

400 clams man, thats the biggest problem about the Kindle
WOW. Yeah, that's THE problem with the Kindle - 400 clams = about 300-350 novels on paper, or 300-350 trades. Physical storage issues may make the Kindle attractive, but no more so than the desk top I already have. I would recommend that people marketing ebooks are doing themselves a disservice by continually marketing something that is essentially not market ready. We've had too much hype about the "ebook revolution" for well over 5 years, still no revolution, so more hype not good until they actually have something ready for the market. If I were them, I would test it with a room full of very nearsighted old folks on a limited income. When they hit a "50/50 approve/disprove vote" from those people, then they should start to market. Otherwise, they should stay in development and keep quiet. Too much hype and no content kills the buzz, know what I mean?

BTW - story idea - old guy/old woman struggling with new technology, gives up, becomes isolated - that's my free story idea for this thread. Could be set in any time in history - for example, a person way back in the day who refuses to buy a telephone (disturbs the peace of the home) and is stubborn about only using the local Western Union office to communicate. Hey, maybe I should develop that story idea....:o

[valoharth]

WOW. Yeah, that's THE problem with the Kindle - 400 clams = about 300-350 novels on paper, or 300-350 trades. Physical storage issues may make the Kindle attractive, but no more so than the desk top I already have. I would recommend that people marketing ebooks are doing themselves a disservice by continually marketing something that is essentially not market ready. We've had too much hype about the "ebook revolution" for well over 5 years, still no revolution, so more hype not good until they actually have something ready for the market. If I were them, I would test it with a room full of very nearsighted old folks on a limited income. When they hit a "50/50 approve/disprove vote" from those people, then they should start to market. Otherwise, they should stay in development and keep quiet. Too much hype and no content kills the buzz, know what I mean?

BTW - story idea - old guy/old woman struggling with new technology, gives up, becomes isolated - that's my free story idea for this thread. Could be set in any time in history - for example, a person way back in the day who refuses to buy a telephone (disturbs the peace of the home) and is stubborn about only using the local Western Union office to communicate. Hey, maybe I should develop that story idea....:o


Yea well I saw that the Kindle was going for 1500-2000 on Ebay before Chrismas havent checked it lately though. Im just excited for the Technology more then the actualy device its self. I saw one at a Borders or what not, its not shabby though.

[fred]

Look - $400 is $400. Lots of people paid that for an iPod.

The real hurtle is the number of titles. Right now they have 82,000 or so. Many think, wow 82,000. Reallly though, that's not even close to enough.

[valoharth]

Look - $400 is $400. Lots of people paid that for an iPod.

The real hurtle is the number of titles. Right now they have 82,000 or so. Many think, wow 82,000. Reallly though, that's not even close to enough.

Yea the argument about the Ipod is that you can see carrying around all your music and now it has video and the ability to hold pictures. The Kindle really only holds books and news papers which is a good idea, I think the price point for this thing should be much lower then 400 bucks, I'm thinking around 100-150 would be good.

[paper]

$250-300 seems like the sweet spot. I mean if you asked me how much it was worth given the specs.

Remember, you're getting free wireless with this thing.

[six-gun]

Look - $400 is $400. Lots of people paid that for an iPod.

The real hurtle is the number of titles. Right now they have 82,000 or so. Many think, wow 82,000. Reallly though, that's not even close to enough.

To be fair, I was quite surprised by the obscurity of some titles available. I honestly think that the number of titles would be fine for me. THe price is my main concern, I just don't have enough time to read prose (w/r/t work and school) to justify it.

However I have no doubt that by the end of my schooling that text books will be on there, and that would fantastic.

[valoharth]

To be fair, I was quite surprised by the obscurity of some titles available. I honestly think that the number of titles would be fine for me. THe price is my main concern, I just don't have enough time to read prose (w/r/t work and school) to justify it.

However I have no doubt that by the end of my schooling that text books will be on there, and that would fantastic.

Oh god, that would have been a FANTASTIC thing for text books, I hated lugging those heavy *** things around campus. Way to point that out there Sixgun

[esophagus]

Look - $400 is $400. Lots of people paid that for an iPod.

The real hurtle is the number of titles. Right now they have 82,000 or so. Many think, wow 82,000. Reallly though, that's not even close to enough.That's why I don't have one. I paid good money for my iPod (although not $400) because it gives me the ability to listen to music everywhere. But so did the discman and walkman I also owned. But the iTunes store has an incredible selection, one that beat my local record store. If I want something, I can probably find it there, and if I can't I still have the option of getting it elsewhere. I don't want to pay $400 for a device that may be more convenient, but still slightly less enjoyable, than a physical book, if it's going to cost that much and still not offer me whatever titles I want.

[esophagus]

So I was wondering if anyone has any good non-linear writing exercises they know of. Some of the hang ups that most beginning writers get is that they feel that they have to write at the beginning then work to the end. Most don't realize that they can work on the middle if they know how the middle is and work up or down from there. Or they can do the ending then move around from there.

Ive thought of one that might be a good try

Okay write a story with its last sentence as "I'll see you in hell". Try starting at the end and work your way back from there. The only rule is you can't add or take away from that sentence and you can't add anything after. Its the end of your story. It should only be as long as it needs to be and nothing more.
I read one in a book once, that has interested me, but I've never tried. It's supposed to help you build a universe for your story to take place in, flesh out all the details you may never even need (ie: Dumbledore is gay).

Start with a simple conversation between two people, with no names.

A: How are you today?
B: I'm good, did you hear about C?
So on and so forth, for as long as you want.

Then slowly start to build up details around it. Start with the place it would take place. Anywhere from your typical office building, to a gorgeous castle on the moon. Whatever you want. Then move onto things like what the people of this area look like, then what kind of people would inhabit that area, and just move onward and outward until you have enough. Once you have all the information you can flesh from that, try and throw as much of it as you can into a story.

[paper]

That's the idea behind the interrogation scene exercise I talked about a while back. You get different results from different kinds of conversations. Friendly, date conversation, interrogation, interview....

[flakbait]

WOW. Yeah, that's THE problem with the Kindle - 400 clams = about 300-350 novels on paper, or 300-350 trades.

Whoa, where are you getting your novels and trades? Or am I misreading you? Last book I bought (or got for Christmas, rather) was a $15 paperback, and that seems to be pretty standard nowadays. Most trades are in the $12 to $20 range. That makes the Kindle worth about 27 paper books, give or take. Double that number if you only buy at used bookstores, but still. It's not as much as it seems, especially for what is essentially a first gen device.

[paper]

Wally's numbers are circumspect. It's that crazy McKee math.

[fred]

To be fair, I was quite surprised by the obscurity of some titles available. I honestly think that the number of titles would be fine for me. THe price is my main concern, I just don't have enough time to read prose (w/r/t work and school) to justify it.

However I have no doubt that by the end of my schooling that text books will be on there, and that would fantastic.

As an example, (and I know I already used this one in the GIMME thread) Cormac McCarthy has written 9 or 10 books (can't remember) and 2 of them are available on Kindle.

That's a problem for me.

[valoharth]

So I’m bored so I figure I might as well go over G.O.T.E. and what they mean in acting and what it can mean for creating literary characters. G.O.T.E is an acronym standing for Goals, Others Tactics, and Expectations. It’s a process of figuring out and better understanding characters for actors and the method was created by Robert Cohen who included it in his Acting One handbook. Since learning this process I have been applying it to other things like creating characters for books and creating characters in D&D.

Now Lets go over what each piece of G.O.T.E. means shall we?

First off is Goals, now this seems pretty self explanatory, which it is in a way but in another way its quite different. Now every character has a goal right? Its what drives a story, its why Bilbo took the first step outside of the Shire. Its motivation for the character, however when we talk about goal in G.O.T.E. its smaller, its more of what the reader or view would say the right now. Plays are broken down in Scenes and Books are broken down in Chapters and even from there they can be broken down in lines and paragraphs this is what we want to focus on. When you’re applying Goals to your character you want to combine the overall goals, the reason they are out on their grand adventure or why they are trying to get home, with the goals of the now, of the small scene. What was Bilbo’s goal in Murkwood Forest when he faced the spiders? His goal in that moment was to survive right? It was to get the dwarfs free from the web which would ensure him to continue on his quest.

Others, Obstacles or sometimes in writing Objects, its basically a obscure way to say what’s stopping your character from achieving the goals they’ve set. Every narrative has the O, its what makes drama, what makes the story interesting. What would have been so interesting about the Hobbit if Bilbo didn’t have Smog as his Other, heck you could even make a case the Thoridin (sp?) was an Other. Now in theater, which Cohen pretty much intended G.O.T.E. for, you really don’t have Obstacles or Objects preventing a character from achieving his/her goals as much as they only have Others, hence why he uses Others rather then the other two. Obstacles are really more for Movies, Comics and Books because you can give more life and detail into why the O is preventing them from achieving such goals.

Tactics again its straight forward it’s basically the things your character does to get their goals finished. In both acting and writing, Tactics is where the story lies. From page one to the last page if you don’t have a tactic moving the reader to the next page then your writing can be pretty dull. There’s really not much to say about Tactics other then this, the most interesting tactics tend to be revolved around Sex and Violence (what do you know the Sex Pistols are good for something). *Spoiler Alert* If you haven’t read Ex Machina vol 1 then I would skip this next part because I’m going to spoil it a bit, if you’re okay with it then more power to you bub, don’t say I didn’t warn you. So in Ex Machina Mayor Hundred is facing a problem about the city paying for a painting that is seen as racist, while he’s thinking about how to handle it Journal the new intern comes down and talks to him. Well Mayor Hundred finds out that Journal knows something about art and decides to use her to talk to the artist to see if she will remove the painting. Now this scene is filled with sexual attraction If you have that book handy I would go and look at it and note how the artist draws the interaction between them and it makes sense too Mayor Hundred one of the most powerful people in NYC (and probably the world) and Journal is a young woman and both are single (I assume still waiting for vol 2 in the mail) of course there is sexual tension there and that’s what makes the reader want to read on (they want to see if they hook up). Now let’s move on to some Violence, now Mayor Hundred what makes him such a great character? He’s a guy who uses, or used, Violence in a good way. He is the worlds first superhero and he fought villains on a daily biases until he ran for mayor. The fact that Hundred may revert to his superpower ways is what’s keeping the reader around. I don’t know if that made much sense or proved the point but it’s the best example I can come up with at the moment.
Now we get on to what seems like the most redundant part of G.O.T.E. Expectations. Yea again straight forward, what does are the Expectations of the character when they use their Tactics? Their Goals! Yes so simple! A character with out any expectations is a character who isn’t going to use Tactics and therefore you have no story. Now like goals we can break down Expectations into scenes. Lets use Bilbo again here, When he enters the lair of Smog his goal is to steal some Treasure from Smog, His obstacle is a massive dragon who could gobble a hafling with little effort, his Tactic is to use the ring and go invisible, His Expectations is to sneak in and sneak out with our a problem. However that doesn’t go so well does it? His Expectations led him in there with out him thinking that the dragon might be able to smell him or sense him because his tactic was fool proof. The second he enters Smog’s lair is when his G.O.T. change however his Expectation doesn’t differ too much, he still Expects to get out of there without a hitch.
That’s basically G.O.T.E. there, its pretty simple and whatnot and I think it’s a great tool that can be used for writing fiction not only for acting. I think it’s also a good idea for anyone going into Playwriting or Screenwriting to know what kind of methods actors use so the writer can accommodate and create better more interesting characters.
I haven’t really looked this over too much, going out as a first draft I’m pretty sure there is more I can add to this but I can’t really think of it right now and I’m also sort of running out of time. If something doesn’t make sense, because I do prattle on a bit and not realize it also I didn’t want to get into too much detail because this post would take up pages, just ask and I will try and clear it up for you :J

[darkknightjrk]

Here's some of my writing: http://www.writerscafe.org/writers/DarkKnightJRK/

[drwally]

Whoa, where are you getting your novels and trades? Or am I misreading you? Last book I bought (or got for Christmas, rather) was a $15 paperback, and that seems to be pretty standard nowadays. Most trades are in the $12 to $20 range. That makes the Kindle worth about 27 paper books, give or take. Double that number if you only buy at used bookstores, but still. It's not as much as it seems, especially for what is essentially a first gen device.

Paper's right, my math is crappy, I've made two big mistakes in one whole year, he was there to see them. My skills are more in the humanities. I speak two languages very well and my math sucks in both, although I can manage my budget very well in Yen.

But thanks, Flakbait, you probably don't know I live in Tokyo, unlike others, and maybe assume I live in the U.S.? Thanks for pointing out my stupid error in a nice way. I live in Japan, I have not used dollars for more than over 11 years, and due to the time zone difference, I am frequently posting at around 6 AM (I work nights), my brain is fuzzy, so on a couple of occasions, somebody sitting comfortable in EST was there to catch a couple of my dumb blunders.

I know JST is about EST plus 14 hours but JST has no daylight savings time, 10,000 yen is about 100 dollars but who cares I have Yen, my rent is 1/3 my paycheck, my iPod was ¥30,000, but like most people I know, I now earn about ¥30,000 less than I once did, but still maybe OK given Tokyo's cost of living, which is in the millions (of Yen). Prices of trades/novels are about ¥1500 yen maybe/maybe not add ¥1000 yen for shipping, can the Kindle do the time zone and money conversions? But wait, I don't care, give me the figure in Yen, how much is a Sterling Pound? God only knows, but the UK post is much faster than the US post. I wrote all those numbers without a thought, all are accurate more and less....

AND this whole Kindle thing is just a little OT around the edges on this thread, IMHO.

[drwally]

Thanks Valoharth, for the definition of G.O.T.E., nice post, I really liked the detail and thought you put into it.
Valoharth's post -(#239) (http://www.revision3.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11482&page=24) -

Here is how I used it in a quick writing exercise for something I am working on - Two characters, two cousins, about 25 years old, 1937, right after Character A inherits a huge estate/fortune, from a relative that was loved by both cousins, and who seemed to have both a private and a public face that was quite different-

Character A-(inherited the estate)

Goals - To be left alone, to avoid the world, to try and understand his dead relative better.
Others, Obstacles - People that want to take advantage of him after he inherited the estate; responsibility to manage a legacy he has only just begun to understand. A cousin (Character B) that says he is too much of an overeducated shut in to understand life.
Tactics - avoid confrontation, even to the point of being a shut in. Use the power of the inheritance to do that.
Expectations - people should go away, leave him alone, be able to manage people the way his dead relative did. And he wants to be happy. And yet...

Character B-(dependent on a stipend from the estate)

Goals - Go out on the town and party, party, party, be free of all obligation, to try and understand his dead relative better
Others, Obstacles - Stipend runs out, His (hypocritical) side of the family that constantly nag him to be "respectable," the same side that wants to grab control of the estate. His cousin (Character A) says he is too much of an undereducated playboy to understand life.
Tactics - Avoid confrontation by going out and partying, relying on his cousin (character A) to bail him out of trouble when necessary.
Expectations - wants to go out and party, live life to the fullest, just like the dead uncle that died and left the estate to his cousin, be happy, and yet...

Next Step, do this for some other characters, then - I like Eso and Paper's recommended techniques - a simple conversation between two people, "could be friendly, date conversation, interrogation, interview" (posts #234 & #245) (http://www.revision3.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11482&page=24), and the ball starts rolling nicely. As it is now, my little exercise is a fairly well used, and time worn set-up. But the trick is developing it, which is where "make a conversation" comes in, and I would add, "add your descriptive passages here and there as you go along," but which chicken comes before which egg is entirely the writer's choice, as they develop their story.

Just how I used GOTE, as a nice way to frame things in one possible way to get my thinking organized. Using the same 4 step outline (or another similar one) applied to multiple characters that interact with these two, and how these two interact especially, helps me to think of situations that show interaction with the subtext below the surface, not blocking the readers enjoyment or talking down to them. I think even if I used a different type of "mapping system" or "character outline system," as long as I applied the same one to multiple characters and how they overlap and interact, then its a fruitful tool. Even when writing in 3rd person, a writer still has to make the choice of which POV they approach a passage from, and the subtext is usually best when worked out before hand, hinted at in the text, not spelled out blatantly. I am always having POV choice problems/dilemmas, but this helps a lot. Thanks!

I would encourage anything that leads to lots and lots of writing but as for, "try and throw as much of it as you can into a story" I would say - you should do your readers (and yourself) a service and EDIT, EDIT, EDIT. Best stories have tons of back story and character development that never gets printed, but it's still there in the text anyway, alive in the character's seemingly random movements and choices they make, breathing the story to life. The last thing anyone ever says in a real conversation is "just be quiet and listen, you stranger you, as I tell you everything, and all at once." In fact, people frequently don't say what is really on their minds. The worst descriptive passages in the world are the ones that dawdle endlessly about something directly and quite obviously. Since I have that disease, I am acutely aware of it when I see it in others. But my editing pen is a light saber, weapon of right thinking, cutting to illuminate good.

Nice thread.

[paper]

Ok, now before we start posting jpegs of graphs and pie charts, let's utilize this newfound GOAT wisdom and write up a story. ;)

I'm gonna try and post something later today.

[fred]

I wrote something this morning. I used no goats, but I'm touching up and I'll post it within the half hour.

[fred]

OK, it's about 1500 words so obviously I can't post it all here. But I'll link it (http://www.thisweekincomics.com/Cole.pdf)and start with an extract because that's just the way I roll.


Cole approached the diner. It was a dimly lit silver monolith; a decrepit love letter to another time. It seemed odd to him to be nostalgic for the ?50s. He thought that anyone should be happy to live in 1985.

As he walked in, he noticed the grizzled couple at the far booth. They were in their thirties, but looked to be in their forties. "They?ve certainly lived," he thought as he took a booth directly behind them. Cole looked around the diner. It was in disrepair; duct tape closed openings in the vinyl of seats everywhere. It looked like the kind of place where you could kill someone in the bathroom and drag the body out without a word from the staff. Cole thought that this was a weird place for his blind date to choose to meet.


One more link (http://www.thisweekincomics.com/Cole.pdf)

Please throw me some feedback. "You suck. Die!" is not the feedback I'm looking for, though it is feedback none the less.

Did I link this yet? (http://www.thisweekincomics.com/Cole.pdf)

[fred]

My links were wrong initially. I fixed them.

[paper]

Link's broken. How does Cole know the couple is in their 30s?

[fred]

links should be working now

[paper]

I like the setup a lot. You need to convince me that Cole's picking up that straw is not out of character. It can be done, but right now it's too abrupt. I don't think it's enough that he's drunk. He's introduced as very critical. Judgmental. Why does he make this decision? This is important, because we've been invited into the guy's head.

[fred]

It is out of character. The entire night is out of character. This is why he's critical and judgemental. This night is a night unlike any other in Cole's life. This is the reason that it ends like it does.

Perhaps I need to spend more time making that point.

Thanks.

[paper]

Here's a little Christmas story I wrote last year.

Driftwood

The old man had been living in the whale’s belly for some seventeen days before the puppet passed, along with several pounds of shrimp and two sea cucumbers, through the baleen filters. The beast had been gluttonous this day and with each gulp, the old man had tumbled in the murky backwash. He cursed and pounded at the slick walls of the belly for the eighth time that evening. For an hour he’d been gathering undigested prawn, using his tunic as a collecting basin. In this last surge he lost every one of them, once more delaying his supper.

He didn’t recognize the puppet at first—the whale often ingested scraps of canvas and dunnage—and wondered if it might be the makings of a potential fire. Warmth and a way out, he thought. There was still a drum of whiskey from the wreck, and perhaps a bit of gunpowder. If only he could keep the wood dry long enough.

The driftwood blinked.

The old man reeled. He never expected to see the puppet again, not even when he booked passage on the trader. There’d been days when he hardly thought of his search, so mired was he in the opportunities afforded a sailor. When they’d docked in Barcelona he was privy to rumors of a wooden boy abroad in Africa, a treacherous and deceitful wretch with the tail of a donkey. He never trusted these stories and dismissed them as fantasy. But now he cradled his son, the puppet, in his hands. He untangled its limbs with pruned, quivering fingers. He prayed and kissed its forehead.

“Papa,” gurgled the puppet, a little uncertain in the dark. It studied his arms and found familiar wrinkles mingling with strange tattoos. For a moment, it tried to pull away.

“Yes, lad,” said the old man. “You’ve found me.”
It had been three years and the puppet had done many terrible things. But so had the old man. There would be no questions of Africa. Not tonight. He lowered the puppet down. It cowered from the prawns flopping in the grime.

They huddled together in the wreckage of the lifeboat and slowly began to scheme. The old man sucked the salt from the beard at the corners of his mouth. Necessary to their escape, the boat itself was useless for firewood. Each day the thing was slipping further and further toward the tail end, the very guts of the creature. Earlier in the week, the captain’s cat had ventured into that darkness never to return. Something needed to be done, lest the shadows take claim of everything.

“I could open the barrel,” he mused, “make the beast silly with drink.” He laughed. What good would that do them?

They began to pace. Their footsteps made wet echoes.

“Maybe we’re meant to stay here,” the puppet said.

“Maybe,” said the old man. It seemed a dire penance. But if he’d learned anything, it was that God was set in His ways.

“I’d rather be home,” confessed the puppet. “In the workshop.”

“We’ll think of something.”

They were both very quiet then, and the old man knew the puppet was thinking very hard. He knew how that could be.

“Do you know the day, little puppet?” he asked, but the puppet could only offer the month. December. The old man counted on his fingers.

“Christmas Eve, then.” It was close enough. “How did you ever find me?”
The puppet pointed up above their heads. “I followed that,” it said.

“By God.”

The rasping, puckering blowhole had been his sole window on the world, but the old man hadn’t noticed the star in those three weeks. He looked at the puppet with something close to pride. “That is called celestial navigation. It is old, but very advanced.”

The puppet told him he’d made a wish. This was something the old man hadn’t done in a long time. He prayed before bed or whenever he was distraught. But he hadn’t wished since he’d sold the workshop. He’d forgotten what a wish could do.

“That’s older still,” said the old man. “And even harder to get right.”
He sat down, nestling between the tips of two ribs. The puppet asleep in his lap, he peered up and out to that same star. And though his lips moved, he didn’t make a sound.