Boycott all revision3 shows for the deaf people they need us

[mase007]

Boycott all revision3 shows for the deaf people they need us to help out them out it's time something to be done about it

I'm sure that the hearing impaired wouldn't mind waiting for few extra days to be able to watch anything on revision3 that has subtitles

i'm really sick about the fact not one staff member other then Moderators replied about it in "Why leave deaf people out of the loop?" thread witch was posted almost year ago but yet you guys done nothing to help this poor guy out or the other deaf people out there all they want is to love love to watch revision3 content but can't

so my girlfriend who is deaf summited the other thread on digg and please help her and all the deaf people out there by digging it and revision3 community get together just like we did to get The revision3 gazette for free

[skyz]

Boycott all revision3 shows for the deaf people they need us to help out them out it's time something to be done about it

I'm sure that the hearing impaired wouldn't mind waiting for few extra days to be able to watch anything on revision3 that has subtitles

i'm really sick about the fact not one staff member other then Moderators replied about it in "Why leave deaf people out of the loop?" thread witch was posted almost year ago but yet you guys done nothing to help this poor guy out or the other deaf people out there all they want is to love love to watch revision3 content but can't

so my girlfriend who is deaf summited the other thread on digg and please help her and all the deaf people out there by digging it and revision3 community get together just like we did to get The revision3 gazette for free



while i have all the sympathy in the world for the deaf and fully support your attempts to make revision3 shows more 'deaf friendly' asking for a boycott is not the best way to accomplish your goal

revision3 is a BUSINESS

it has to be a business so that the great people working on the shows can feed themselves and their families

what you want will add to the cost of doing business so suggesting a boycott which would lessen the income from the shows is counterproductive and counterintuititive

[masherscf]

Mods are not Revision3 staff.

Also, Links to personal digg submissions are considered Spam.

[tokenuser]

Diggnation = 48min
GigaOm = 20min
TRS = 45min
Tekzilla = 37min
Systm = 16min
Infected = 30min
Webdrifter = 14min
Pixel Perfect = (n/a)
R3G = 10min
==================
Total = 220min
==================

Yes, I know Pixel Perfect and XLR8R aren't included - I don't have the current episodes downloaded, so my numbers will be even higher if they are included.

$7/minute x 220min/week x 52weeks = $80K (OK, its a little over that).

Now, Rev3 are on Angel funding at the moment. Thats a tough time of make or break. I have been through that myself, and we did not succeed. Sure, there is sponsorship and membership, but I suspect that money is going to other causes at the moment - building out a studio, fitting it out with lights, HD Cameras on dollies, control room, wardrobe for Martin, salary for Joey, etc.

Subtitles are a noble idea ... but the realities of business are such that when you are in startup mode, you need to stretch your resources as far as possible to start getting a positive cash flow, and I suspect that subtitles are not particulalry high on the priority list to get there.

While a grassroot effort to subtitle Rev3 shows like anime fansubs is a great idea, if people are so keen to see this happen, then why not do it yourselves?

Go grab a copy of VirtualDub and the Vobsub plugin and go for it.

Boycotting Rev3 will do nothing - not enough people will care passionately enough about subtitles for it to have any effect ... but building a grassroot subtiting effort (and translation as well I guess) will get noticed.

[scienceking]

Come on, this is a bit nuts. Not even all TV programming has CC's provided by the first party; volunteer organizations hook them up. Revision3 would certainly set a milestone by being the FIRST podcast provider to do this, but their following of a well established and reasonable from a business perspective status quo hardly deserves boycott! Why don't you boycott your local hospital for not being able to save every person who comes in or your local family restaurant for not making food as good as Wolfgang Puck's while you are at it?

[ariastar]

If it weren't for your gf, you wouldn't think much about this. But the fact is still that Rev3 can't make everything accessible to every person who may want to see the show. Just not possible. Especially when you're asking for it for free. Unless you're willing to put a good chunk toward the cost, then don't be asking for more.

Token's estimates are conservative. If you've ever subtitled something, you'd know it's such a pain in the ass. I transcribed some CPS tapes before, though didn't seed to set it to track, and oh my god, $80k a year wouldn't be enough for me to be willing to do four hours of video a week. An episode at 48 minutes would be about $350, but could EASILY take a good ten hours for good quality (checking, double-checking...), not to mention being bored out of your skull by the end.

[tokenuser]

Token's estimates are conservative.My $7/minute estimate was from a subtitling company I googled when this was raised last year (its only $5/min for scripted content). VERY conservative estimates ... but if you look at CC on many TV shows, it not perfect either. In fact sometimes its downright painful to read (especially live content on ESPN).

[ariastar]

My $7/minute estimate was from a subtitling company I googled when this was raised last year (its only $5/min for scripted content). VERY conservative estimates ... but if you look at CC on many TV shows, it not perfect either. In fact sometimes its downright painful to read (especially live content on ESPN).

Live doesn't have the ability to error check.

[samureye]

Boycott all revision3 shows for the deaf people they need us to help out them out it's time something to be done about it

I'm sure that the hearing impaired wouldn't mind waiting for few extra days to be able to watch anything on revision3 that has subtitles

i'm really sick about the fact not one staff member other then Moderators replied about it in "Why leave deaf people out of the loop?" thread witch was posted almost year ago but yet you guys done nothing to help this poor guy out or the other deaf people out there all they want is to love love to watch revision3 content but can't

so my girlfriend who is deaf summited the other thread on digg and please help her and all the deaf people out there by digging it and revision3 community get together just like we did to get The revision3 gazette for free

This is exactly why I hated the Gazette going for free. Now people want to whine for everything they want.

Not to take this situation lightly, but can you blame Rev3 for not having CC?

As stated before, Rev3 is a business, and a new one at that. Television has CC, but this is the internet, and being a business, putting out the cash that Token has guestimated, may not be economical. Sorry to say, but going out of their way for what may very well be a small benefit, if any, doesn't seem likely.

People get together and translate those Naruto episodes from Japanese and post them online, so what's to stop you from doing the same for Rev3 shows? Be the first to start the project.

[mikec]

This is exactly why I hated the Gazette going for free. Now people want to whine for everything they want.

Not to take this situation lightly, but can you blame Rev3 for not having CC?

As stated before, Rev3 is a business, and a new one at that. Television has CC, but this is the internet, and being a business, putting out the cash that Token has guestimated, may not be economical. Sorry to say, but going out of their way for what may very well be a small benefit, if any, doesn't seem likely.

People get together and translate those Naruto episodes from Japanese and post them online, so what's to stop you from doing the same for Rev3 shows? Be the first to start the project.

Is this your personal view or the opinion of a moderator? (on many boards people take what a mod says as being the word of the board owner, since the mod represents the owner.) You have to make sure people know the difference.

[kickarse]

Mod is a moderator, admin would be administrator. I would view the administrator as the owner, not the Moderator. A moderator moderates content, an administrator administrates the services (which umbrella's moderators and content, etc.).

I would say though that you'll find that many people will not back you up, however valiant the effort, to boycott Rev3. They never said they'd do CC, from what I remember at least. It's not like having an mp3 version for the blind. I wouldn't expect magazines like PC Mag to have braille editions.

[mase007]

I would like to apologies I know it was rude to write something like that it was mostly written out of frustration and anger

I'm really sorry to all the people and for any rules I may have broken if any but this needs to be resolved for the hearing impaired the internet has left them behind

[kahunablair]

I would like to apologies I know it was rude to write something like that it was mostly written out of frustration and anger

I'm really sorry to all the people and for any rules I may have broken if any but this needs to be resolved for the hearing impaired the internet has left them behind

I commend you for trying to right a wrong!
But at the same time, I'm a realist too. Sadly captioning is just a level of polish that I don't think even a corporation like Rev3 is at just yet.

Give it some time my friend, it's not like they aren't doing it because they are evil bastards. They just don't have the means yet.

[ariastar]

I would like to apologies I know it was rude to write something like that it was mostly written out of frustration and anger

I'm really sorry to all the people and for any rules I may have broken if any but this needs to be resolved for the hearing impaired the internet has left them behind

Is it realistic? No. You can say that driving has left blind people behind. The world is not a place that is ever going to be 100% accessible to anyone. You've got to accept that. Realistically the internet has "left behind" blind people a whole lot more.

[masherscf]

Is this your personal view or the opinion of a moderator? (on many boards people take what a mod says as being the word of the board owner, since the mod represents the owner.) You have to make sure people know the difference.

I'm not aware that Revision3 has a policy on this issue.

I agree with you actually, with all due respect for my many forum friends. I do concede that applying closed-captioning at this time isn't very good business. However, I don't think that the on-demand downloadable media business is mature enough to justify such outrage.

Adding closed captions would simply be the right thing to do.

[mikec]

What I meant was were the comments HIS or was he speaking in behalf of Rev3. There is a difference.


A boycott would be silly. Hopefully someone realizes that there are some who need the help. Maybe they will tackle this in the future.

[masherscf]

What I meant was were the comments HIS or was he speaking in behalf of Rev3. There is a difference.

As a mod, Sammy only represents Revision3 on forum management issues. Closed captioning is not a forum management issue, so the expectation is that the not speaking on behalf of Revision3. I'm sure that Sammy would preface his statement explicitly as Revision3 policy if that was the case.

Mods do have power to enforce policy on forum management issues. But, in other cases, I would not lend weight to their statements just because they have a "Moderator" tag.

[comhcinc]

I would like to apologies I know it was rude to write something like that it was mostly written out of frustration and anger

I'm really sorry to all the people and for any rules I may have broken if any but this needs to be resolved for the hearing impaired the internet has left them behind

what ever happen to the good ol' pull yourself up by your boot straps american spirit? if you want this done so badly, DO IT YOURSELF and quit whiney.

[mikec]

what ever happen to the good ol' pull yourself up by your boot straps american spirit? if you want this done so badly, DO IT YOURSELF and quit whiney.


The answer to that is most weeks my schedule doesn't allow me time to watch a podcast once, let alone watch for myself and then try to transcribe it. I am not a great typist, actually I suck at it. thank God for spell checkers otherwise this would look like I am typing in Cyrillic.

It is apparent that Revision3 isn't concerned about this subject. Whether I continue to watch or support their product, that is to be seen.

[danielus]

Moderator removed Digg link, and I will have to dissent with this decision.

Digg and Revision3, they are same company as far as I am concerned, and placing Digg link in these forums should be encouraged, not discouraged.

Deaf people deserve to be treated with more respect and option of subtitles are trully something that all videos need. These subtitles or captions, or whatever they are called, are also beneficial to people with English as a Second Language, it's easier for them to understand what is being said on videos...

[ariastar]

Moderator removed Digg link, and I will have to dissent with this decision.

Digg and Revision3, they are same company as far as I am concerned, and placing Digg link in these forums should be encouraged, not discouraged.

Deaf people deserve to be treated with more respect and option of subtitles are trully something that all videos need. These subtitles or captions, or whatever they are called, are also beneficial to people with English as a Second Language, it's easier for them to understand what is being said on videos...

They don't want the board full of spam.

And it has nothing to do with respect, but everything to do with the funding. You find the extra $100k or them to do this per year, especially when the show is already free to you, and then you've got a place to talk.

[phatlip12]

Moderator removed Digg link, and I will have to dissent with this decision.

Digg and Revision3, they are same company as far as I am concerned, and placing Digg link in these forums should be encouraged, not discouraged.

Deaf people deserve to be treated with more respect and option of subtitles are trully something that all videos need. These subtitles or captions, or whatever they are called, are also beneficial to people with English as a Second Language, it's easier for them to understand what is being said on videos...

No, the two are NOT the same company. Placing Digg links on the forums to promote your own story IS NOT something we encourage. This is considered spam.

Yes, deaf people deserve to be treated with respect. However, you have to realize that this is not only a new company but a new type of business in general. Accessibility for people with disabilities on the web sort of stinks all around. Progress has been made, but there are still tons of sites that aren't accessible to persons with disabilities (coders that don't keep in mind that some may visit their site and have to use a screen reader for example). Keep in mind that the world wide web has been around since the late 80's yet site accessibility for those with disabilities is STILL a problem. Now consider the fact that this form of internet driven (video media) has just recently took off.

I'm only a moderator and don't exactly represent Revision3 but I can tell you that they do take your guys input into consideration. Give it time....

[comhcinc]

The answer to that is most weeks my schedule doesn't allow me time to watch a podcast once, let alone watch for myself and then try to transcribe it. I am not a great typist, actually I suck at it. thank God for spell checkers otherwise this would look like I am typing in Cyrillic.

It is apparent that Revision3 isn't concerned about this subject. Whether I continue to watch or support their product, that is to be seen.

so what you are saying is you can't be bothered enough with this to do it yourself. why do you feel you are entitled to this service? i'm a fan of mexican soap operas, but i don't speak spanish. does that mean univision should be made to spend money on translating their shows even though i represent only a small market?

so far all i seen you do is whine. you are acting like a three year old throwing a hissy fit. people have offer you reason why it doesn't make sense for Rev3 to do this. hell people have offered to help you but that isn't good enough for you. really you just need to grow up.

[masherscf]

They don't want the board full of spam.

I removed the link because it is Mod policy to discourage this forum as place to promote digg submissions and promoting personal web content on any kind outside of a signature is considered spam.

We routinely make acceptions for direct promotion of Revision3 content, content in the context of a particular thread, content that is relevant to commentary or a topic presented on a Revision3 program, artwork posted by the artist that is of particular interest or presented in context of an exisiting thread or program, and any content that has perceived overall value for the Revision3 forum members.

As there was already a thread in existance of on this topic, beginning a new thread to post a submission to digg was gratuitous.

As there was already a thread devoted to this topic, it was my first instinct was to delete the thread and issue the OP a warning for trolling. However, because I sort of agree with the OP and I let my generous nature get the best of me.

I think that posting a link to the article in the already existing thread would not be considered spam because anyone reading that thread would already have a vested interest in the topic.


In any case, I think people confuse "respect" and "courtasy." Respect is earned while courtasy should be offered freely.

That is, I think that closed captioning should not be done as a sign of respect for the hearing-impaired who are already familiar with Revision3. But, it should be done as a sign of courtasy for people who may want to become familiar with Revision3.

Companies often offer extended services to those people with accessibility issues as a courtasy. Companies seldom get or expect compensation for these extended services. It's just a simple courtasy. Not extending the courtasy is not a sign of disrepect but is simply discourteous.

I think that quoting cost estimates is pointless. Courtasy services often are a sunk cost. Applying closed captioning would not represent a large increase in the cost of production or any particular video.

However, since Revision3 isn't making money yet, it's pretty unrealistic to expect closed-captioning at this time.

[tokenuser]

However, since Revision3 isn't making money yet, it's pretty unrealistic to expect closed-captioning at this time.Because it costs too much ;)

[phatlip12]

Because it costs too much ;)

I think there is some truth to this. It would explain why TV shows always run the "Closed captioning sponsored in part by" ads.

[masherscf]

Because it costs too much ;)

I stand by my assertion that how much too much is irrelevant. Kinda like me buying myself a Lamborghini. If you havta ask, it's too expensive.

[parthurs]

Why not dub it in french while your at it? Or maybe spanish... Hell find more minorities to please it shouldn't be hard to find them they seem to have the loudest voices in most rooms. Maybe they should dumb it down for the retarded people too while they are at it. And BTW im just being an ass. If the deaf want to make it happen by all means go for it. But im not boycotting shit for you.

[samureye]

Sorry I was late to return, but moderators are not official Rev3 staff, as masher put it before (http://revision3.com/forum/showpost.php?p=231740&postcount=3).

I guess the OP is getting the idea that there won't be much support for this Boycott, in which case, coming to think about it, should be removed from the forums. Why should we promote boycott of Rev3 here of all places?

[popltree2]

Can we "/beat dead horse" this thread yet? Seems to be a cyclical argument.