Episode 25 - MAME Case II [Discussion]

[travislopes]

We're calling it Episode 24-A: David really underestimated the amount of time it would take to make our arcade sized MAME (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAME) cabinet.

We originally wanted to cover making all of the panels, screwing 'em together, fitting 'em, fitting the door and speaker and vent holes as well as sanding and filling in the holes. In one episode. Which we didn't get close to covering in Systm Episode 24 (http://revision3.com/forum/../systm/mamecase)

Hence, Episode 25: MAME Case II, where we talk about the finer points of :
Cutting vents holes with a wood router (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_router) Patrick's hot tip: practice cutting straight slots on scrap lumber, not your final project!

Wood Putty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_filler) our fave product after Bondo (http://www.bondo-online.com/catalog_item.asp?itemNbr=181) for covering up screw holes and cracks in our MAME case.

T-Molding (http://www.t-molding.com/store), the plastic edging used on â??boats, countertops, tablesâ? and, our favorite, vintage arcade machineas. T-molding.com (http://www.t-molding.com/store) is Dave's fave source.

And a few viewer questions, including some MAME cases you've built, and one impassioned plea that we remember to wear our masks and gogglesâ?¦ the glue (Urea-formaldehyde (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urea-formaldehyde)) that binds the woody bits in MDF (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medium-density_fibreboard) is pretty nasty (http://www.nsc.org/EHC/indoor/formald.htm)

BTW, our spiel on the safety issues involved with MDF came from Design-Technology.org (http://www.design-technology.org/mdf.htm) not Ask.com!

The sander we've fallen in love with comes from Ryobi Tools (http://www.ryobitools.com/), it's a 5" Random Orbit Sander, model # RS241 (http://www.ryobitools.com/products/print_tool/model?model=RS241).

In Episode 3 of our Month of MAME, David's gonna wrestle with displays, Patrick sets up the audio while Brendan mounts the computer.

Want to play along at home? David has put together a PDF file with a drawing of our case, along with all the dimensions, tools and supplies! (http://revision3.com/forum/../static/show_downloads/systm/systm--0024--mamecase--tools.pdf) ... and make sure you check out our first MAME episode! (http://revision3.com/forum/../systm/mamecase)

[laxaloot]

These newer ones are starting to feel like good ole' fashioned systm. That's a good thing btw.

[wizmaster]

Lol. This might turn out to be the Month and a half of MAME. Seems it's more work then it looks. This was a good episode and I hope they can get back on track. I so want to build one now.

[eminemdrdre00]

Another great episode! Thanks for the hard work!

[trotskysghost]

I restored an old cabinet at one point. We found it in the basement of an on-campus apartment at the engineering school I attended. The apartment had over 15 years worth of hoarded electronics equipment in the basement, including this cabinet, enough networking (fiber, ethernet, ATM) equipment to start an ISP and a ton of rare prototype computers that had been saved from the R&D labs of a networking tech company that one of the residents had interned at.

The cabinet had been an early 80's SEGA racing game, but the guts were totally ruined. My friends and I working on this project were all members of the Robotics Club and we decided that we'd like a nice controller station to remotely control our current and future projects from.

http://mdrc.rit.edu/projects/kiosk/

We gutted the old parts out of it and spent several weekends repairing the case and modifying it to meet our needs. There was an entire section of the front edge of the case that had been smashed in, that I patched with the help of a lot of wood filler. I spent probably 40 hours just sanding the thing.

We installed a flat screen monitor and used a rackmount (4RU case) case (which just so happened to perfectly fit the width of the front of the cabinet) to hold our computer components. The monitor had built in speakers. Not shown in the picture is the computer racing wheel we installed on it later.

[famous1107]

A couple of points......Im new to this show and just thought id throw in my learnings from when i made my MAME machine like 5 years ago.

-I wouldnt used paint for the finish, but rather laminent

-T-molding rocks

-apply the finishes and molding before you assemble the whole cabnet

-go smaller, rather than bigger

-make sure your design can fit through door jams (the controller part detaches on mine)


Here are some pictures of mine.
Worked great back in the day.

http://www.modulartreehouses.com/001.jpg


http://www.modulartreehouses.com/476.jpg

As for right now all the parts are in random boxes waiting for a new housing. My mame box was just too large to put anywhere.
I just bought a new MIG welder and hopfully i can make something really cool.

I really need someone to pay me to just invent shit in my garage...

Grat show guys....Keep it Reel

[astinsan]

MDF is a great product and is perfect for items that will vibrate or support something (perfect for auto speaker boxes). I think it may be overkill for an arcade cabinet.

Use of other materials should be pointed out.
MDO - Its water proof (its main purpose was for signs that are in weather) its flat and very light. Doesn't stress out your power tools. Its stable to humidity.

Particle board (utility grade) price is less than MDF pretty stable stuff (humidity doesn't seem to harm it) Not as dense as mdf so your power tools will thank you.

When you shop for your lumber keep this in mind.
During the winter months most of the big box stores get good deals on speciality lumber like 3/4 birch. Its usually 1/2 price.

If your low on funds remember that the big box stores get items that are packet with sheets of dunage particle board (HD shelfs come packet with them usually an odd size like 3.75x8) Ask if they have any its usually free if you haul it away. 2x4x4' lumber stickers are usually free too just ask someone in lumber if you can take them.

Anyways Just my 2 cents - Great build so far... I can't wait to see how it ends.
Jay :)

[dazz]

Hey guys!

Thanks for showing my cabinet in this episode along with my tip on measuring the doorways. It was a pleasant surprise and forced a smile out of me today when I'm not feeling too well... ugh.

Anyway, you are not getting a little further on your build... looking nice. I noticed that you chose to do the routing for the t-molding with the cabinet mostly built. For future reference it is MUCH easier to do when the sides are not yet attached to anything. The router is a tricky tool to learn right, but it is also a fun tool to work with.

Before you begin work on your control panel.... DO NOT eyeball it like you have been for most of the cabinet. Take your time when it comes to the control panel... Decide now how many buttons per player you want. The best thing to do is take a piece of cardboard the same size as your control panel top and cut to shape. Draw out your button and joystick layout on the cardboard then attach it to the cabinet. Make a couple layouts and test each design. If your cabinet is going to be a 2 player cabinet then have two people sit/stand side by side, as if you are playing, and make sure you have plenty of room to move... Make sure the buttons are in a comfortable and natural layout for your hands.

To give you a little insight... My cabinet is a 4 player cabinet, players 3 & 4 have only 4 buttons (I have not come across a 4 player game that had more then 4 buttons per player). Players 1 & 2 have 7 buttons in a hybrid Neo-Geo/Street Fighter layout. I also added a spinner, trackball, a pinball plunger and 5 total pinball flippers/tilt buttons. Trying to get everything added and make sure they all have ample work space was a HUGE chore. It took about 3 days of doing nothing but control panel designs before I went with the layout I did. Once I had the control panel designed it took another 5 to 6 hours to wire everything into the Opti-Pac/I-PAC4 keyboard encoder. A simple 2 player 6 button each design is easy and shouldn't take long to build. Just take time to make sure it is going to be comfortable for the players to play!

Have fun with the build this week! Looking forward to next weeks episode.

Happy building!
Dazz

[jcduerr]

good episode. made me a bit nervous when they were using the utility knife. easy to slip and off goes a chunk of flesh.

[hugheser]

I have to admit I cringed when I saw you guys using that router. I do quite a bit of woodworking as a hobbiest so here are a couple tips.

1. When you route the T-Molding, DO NOT go in the direction the bit is turning. You want to go the opposite direction the router wants to take you. What you did is called climb cutting and is VERY dangerous. That router is probably moving around 20k RPM! When you climb cut, you run the risk of losing control and losing a finger or worse. I noticed it started to run away from Patrick when he hit the corner. Climb cutting should only be done in very specific situations where wood grain requires it to minimize chipout.

2. When you route the vents, make the slots in multiple passes. Otherwise you run the risk of burning out the motor or worse, breaking the bit and having it take flight. For cutting through 3/4" MDF, I would do a minimum of 3 passes. You need to cut away a little bit at a time. I have had a few bits break over the years and it's not fun. I had a 1/4" upspiral smash into my safety glasses and cut my cheek. This still happened while I was cutting in multiple passes.

3. When working with MDF, a dust mask isn't enough. Get yourself a cheep respirator. I think the basic 3M respirator is only $20-$30. MDF is nasty. Your lungs will thank you.

[whoisscott]

was the t-molding in this ep. a demo or just to show an example? I just think it would easier to install it after the painting. Rather then taping or removing and reinstalling. I don't mean the routing, i understand that should be done in this stage. Also good job dave for cutting the t-molding while your hand is right behind it. I'm not preaching about safety, i just pictured you cutting yourself and the inevitable bleep and cut to something else.

I also what to say i love the woodworking aspect of the last 2 shows. I think its good change from soldering

[jibberish]

3. When working with MDF, a dust mask isn't enough. Get yourself a cheep respirator. I think the basic 3M respirator is only $20-$30. MDF is nasty. Your lungs will thank you.

Thanks for pointing that out, because I thought the same thing and kept forgetting to mention it. I was amazed to see that they were not using respirators. Those paper masks are so useless, even for shredding leaves. I bet you anything their snot was brown later, which is a good indication that the mask is not working. :rolleyes:

Respirator for $25 here (http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100076338)

Do your less knowledgeable audience (No offense audience :) ) a favor and recommend these respirators. They are also a lot easier to breath through than those paper masks.

[dazz]

I must say that I really wish I had a respirator... I used one of the paper ones they are using on the show and that was a mistake. I was coughing up MDF dust and blowing it out of my nose for at least a week after.

[goliath553]

What are you doing with your Mame cabinet after you complete it? AKA who's house will it reside in?

[buzzy]

I have to admit I cringed when I saw you guys using that router. I do quite a bit of woodworking as a hobbiest so here are a couple tips.

1. When you route the T-Molding, DO NOT go in the direction the bit is turning. You want to go the opposite direction the router wants to take you. What you did is called climb cutting and is VERY dangerous. That router is probably moving around 20k RPM! When you climb cut, you run the risk of losing control and losing a finger or worse. I noticed it started to run away from Patrick when he hit the corner. Climb cutting should only be done in very specific situations where wood grain requires it to minimize chipout.

2. When you route the vents, make the slots in multiple passes. Otherwise you run the risk of burning out the motor or worse, breaking the bit and having it take flight. For cutting through 3/4" MDF, I would do a minimum of 3 passes. You need to cut away a little bit at a time. I have had a few bits break over the years and it's not fun. I had a 1/4" upspiral smash into my safety glasses and cut my cheek. This still happened while I was cutting in multiple passes.

3. When working with MDF, a dust mask isn't enough. Get yourself a cheep respirator. I think the basic 3M respirator is only $20-$30. MDF is nasty. Your lungs will thank you.

Agreed. I was shaking my head while watching Patrick operate the router. Please guys, brush up on the fundamentals of the tools you're using.

[vincent12234]

Yeah I really liked this episode, and can't wait to see how far they are next episode.

[astinsan]

Yeah... Be careful. If you do a shop safety brief though.. do a parity of Norm Abram's version. They have been using the same old safety clip on that show forever. At least you don't handle the saw like my brother in law. Damn those house framers are nuts. Guard tied back. Center drop cuts on sheet goods bracing it with your leg. I would cringe and look away every time he came to help with a project.

[atom12]

just wanted to drop in and say , another nice episode. If it takes longer than expected I am fine with that. Heck... turn it into an 8 episode segment if you need to. I don't mind. :)

As usual, I really appreciate all the hard work guys, keep it up!

P.S. Question for the show. Obviously Dave and Pat have fond memories of the old Arcades. What was your favorite arcade game back in the day? Mine would have been a tie between the Tron arcade game and the sit down vector graphic Star Wars game.

[dokcal]

I never actually converted it over to MAME, but I had a Taito Rastan that had been installed in an Atari Space Duel cab. The cabinet had a couple of design features that I would highly reccomend in any cabinet design:

First, the side panels on most Atari cabs don't have any inside angles less than about 135°, which kept the T-molding from popping up over time. BTW, the cab was almost completely particle board, which, as has been pointed out, was plenty durable, lighter, and a whole lot easier to work with than MDF.

By far the coolest thing about the cab was that the control panel was a single piece of rolled sheet metal that went from the top of the lower front panel all the way up to slightly overlap the bottom of the monitor plexi. It was attached on the underside with a long piano hinge, and secured at the top with two of the sort of cam-action hasps normally used to close tool boxes.

What made this so great was that once the two hasps were opened (reaching in from the back), the entire control panel assembly flipped forward, so that not only could you access the control panel wiring with ease, but you could actually reach the mainboard, power supply, and just about everything but the controls on the rear of the monitor. It made the machine much easier to work on--I could even swap out the mainboard for different games without moving the cabinet!

In a home-user setting, you'd probably want to make the hasps accessible from the front side for easy access, and probably use hardware that was more aesthetically appealing. I'm sure you could do the same thing with a wooden control panel. The heavy-guage steel WAS kind of a bear to cut holes in!

--Doktor Calamari

[eaasness]

Here are a couple of tips I've learned from experience helping my roommate work on his MAME machine.

1. Like others have said get some respirators (although you are probably done with the wood working by now)

2. Don't get the system working before you complete the cabinet. Once you can play with it, its hard to actually finish the cabinet! The one at my house is still not complete.

3. This is a weird one, on a 4 player setup we found that on the outside controllers should face up, not turn in to face the screen. Here is a picture of what I mean. http://s215.photobucket.com/albums/cc176/erikthecomputerguy/?action=view&current=Mame_Control.gif

I'll post more tips if I think of them. I'll also take some pics and post them.

-E

[jibberish]

@eaasness

What is the benefit for having the controllers face the way you were describing?

[eaasness]

@eaasness

What is the benefit for having the controllers face the way you were describing?

Not really a benefit. We found that if you are standing on one of the edge controllers you usually have to angle in to face the screen, but while playing to go up you push toward the screen instead of away from you. Basically you orientate to the screen instead of your body. We "tested" this with multiple friends, and it seems to hold true for everyone we tested.

And if any one has to ask what the benefit of a four players system is I only have one word,
Gauntlet!!

[tokenuser]

Not really a benefit. We found that if you are standing on one of the edge controllers you usually have to angle in to face the screen, but while playing to go up you push toward the screen instead of away from you. Basically you orientate to the screen instead of your body. We "tested" this with multiple friends, and it seems to hold true for everyone we tested. Space wise its a PITA though. You need the skinny guys on the inside.

Why not orient the joystick so that it matches the screen? You are still using it to the screen orientation, but just happen to be off center youself.

[eaasness]

This is the way I was saying to set up the controls. Where the white 4-ways represent the controller orientation and the black 4-ways represent the peoples orientation. http://s215.photobucket.com/albums/cc176/erikthecomputerguy/?action=view&current=Mame_Control-full.gif

When we designed our first setup we did it wrong, because we over thought it. We had the controllers orientated the same way as the players, and it just didn't feel right.

Also for those of you that want to try a Linux distro for MAME you can check out Lincade.
http://www.pc2jamma.org/forum/

-E

[famous1107]

I agree with everyone when it comes to mdf. use something else