The End?

[gungadin]

So you know how at the end of a long, epic comic arc, the writer will put "End"?

I absolutely cannot stand the word "The End" in a comic book. Perhaps it has everything to do with the fact that nothing really ever ends in comics. I see the word "End" at the bottom of the last page and get the feeling that it's the tightly wrapped little ending you get in novels or the ending for a certain character, when in actuality that character (or characters, depending on the book) will just be back in just thirty days time (or whenever the next trade come out... doesn't matter).

I get that writers put "end" to mark the finality of a story arc or limited series (I haven't read WWH finale yet, so I don't know) but it feels like it means that the character is done.

Maybe I'm just psychologically imbalanced (this is very, very likely), but it kills me how I can read an epic story like "Civil War" or "Infinite Crisis" (I don't remember if they did it there, but you get the idea) and then they say "The End" when in fact it's just the beginning for a whole new series of multi-spiralling out of them stories, you know?

The best way to solve this problem is the way Brad Meltzer does it (I know how unpopular he might be, but just roll with it) which is to put the title credit whatevers on the last page so you know it's like the end of a chapter (or a story, as with the final page of Identity Crisis).

So what I guess I'm getting at (so it's not me blathering for an eternity about something trivial and random) is two things...

1) What do you think about the use of the word "End" or "The End" in comics? (And why. You're not getting off that easy...)

And 2) If you don't like it, what do you think writers should put at the end of a comic to signify that the story is completed?

[six-gun]

I think when they put The End? it fits more like there's still some lack of finality

[gungadin]

I think when they put The End? it fits more like there's still some lack of finality

But then it's like the end of The Blob where it makes it sound like that idea of end of story has yet to be resolved, yet it's been resolved. That makes it sound like... "The End... or is it?"

[hudsonphillips]

I personally think that comics should be treated more like films, or more accurately, TV seasons. Where you tell a story that's 6, 12, however many issues long, write "the end." And then start a new story with a new #1.

Y'know... X-Men Season 1, X-Men Season 12... that kind of thing.

I believe this is something that they are doing with the Ultimates? I don't read the book, but they release it in volumes, right?

i think this structure allows new readers to come on and get caught up easier, while established readers still get the great stories they are used to.

[euchre0]

It seems that "The End" implies the end of the story, so I have no problem with seeing it at...the end of a story. Even movies that have said "The End" as the credits roll have had sequels. It's the end of that particular story.

[xyzzy]

I personally think that comics should be treated more like films, or more accurately, TV seasons. Where you tell a story that's 6, 12, however many issues long, write "the end." And then start a new story with a new #1.

Y'know... X-Men Season 1, X-Men Season 12... that kind of thing.

I believe this is something that they are doing with the Ultimates? I don't read the book, but they release it in volumes, right?

i think this structure allows new readers to come on and get caught up easier, while established readers still get the great stories they are used to.

I endorse this view.

[jo11ypenguin]

The End is shorter than "will be retconned in about 18 months"

[gungadin]

The End is shorter than "will be retconned in about 18 months"

Ha.

But even if they put "Next issue:..." you know? That'd be better. But putting end or the end seems final.

It seems that "The End" implies the end of the story, so I have no problem with seeing it at...the end of a story. Even movies that have said "The End" as the credits roll have had sequels. It's the end of that particular story.

Ah, but did they know there'd be a sequel? That's the difference. Comics writers are consciously aware of what they're doing in comics and what will come up next (even if they're not a part of it). I dunno. Imagine if they put "The End" at the end of Cap 25. That's probably not the best of examples. But that's definitely the end of a story arc (or it seems like it would be). Can you imagine what it'd be like to see that last panel and then the words "The End"?

[mikegraham6]

I personally think that comics should be treated more like films, or more accurately, TV seasons. Where you tell a story that's 6, 12, however many issues long, write "the end." And then start a new story with a new #1.

Y'know... X-Men Season 1, X-Men Season 12... that kind of thing.

I believe this is something that they are doing with the Ultimates? I don't read the book, but they release it in volumes, right?

i think this structure allows new readers to come on and get caught up easier, while established readers still get the great stories they are used to.

all they really have to do is make it a little more obvious on the cover that this is the beginning of a new storyarc, you can never tell from just looking at the cover

[cylonpete]

I personally think that comics should be treated more like films, or more accurately, TV seasons. Where you tell a story that's 6, 12, however many issues long, write "the end." And then start a new story with a new #1.

Y'know... X-Men Season 1, X-Men Season 12... that kind of thing.

I believe this is something that they are doing with the Ultimates? I don't read the book, but they release it in volumes, right?

i think this structure allows new readers to come on and get caught up easier, while established readers still get the great stories they are used to.

I totally agree with that view. And I also think it would be better if we had some sort of hiatus. Not long though, maybe two or three months and just for the big universe spanning titles. So you'll had time to catch up with all the small and niche stuff that's going on everywhere else.

[mikegraham6]

I totally agree with that view. And I also think it would be better if we had some sort of hiatus. Not long though, maybe two or three months and just for the big universe spanning titles. So you'll had time to catch up with all the small and niche stuff that's going on everywhere else.

the hiatus is a good idea, it would help the big name artists avoid delays (hopefully)

[cylonpete]

the hiatus is a good idea, it would help the big name artists avoid delays (hopefully)

:eek:
Hey, that's a side effect I didn't even think about. I was just hoping to catch my breath from all the books every once in while...

[euchre0]

Ah, but did they know there'd be a sequel? That's the difference. Comics writers are consciously aware of what they're doing in comics and what will come up next (even if they're not a part of it). I dunno. Imagine if they put "The End" at the end of Cap 25. That's probably not the best of examples. But that's definitely the end of a story arc (or it seems like it would be). Can you imagine what it'd be like to see that last panel and then the words "The End"?

Like I said, "The end" indicates the end of a story, nothing more. That is why film makers can make a sequel when the first movie said the end at the time. What's wrong with a writer having a conclusion to his story? Because those two words carry such finality to you doesn't mean the character's life stops. If Spider-man throws Doc Ock in jail for the umpteenth time, that's the end until he escapes 24 issues later. I know that at this point, you'll say "SEE! The Doc Ock story continues!" Continue it does, but the previous story was indeed finished, why let it bother you?

The Cap 25 analogy is the last one you want to bring up because it kicks off the story that we are still in the middle of 7 issues later.

Again, "The End" indicates that the writer is finished with that particular story. But it never closes the door on anthing that is fiction.

[euchre0]

Also, what's the need to make comics like TV? Must we make each medium match all other media in presentation?

[xyzzy]

Also, what's the need to make comics like TV? Must we make each medium match all other media in presentation?

Well, personally, don't particularly want comics to by like TV. But I do think that, particularly for stuff that's not creator owned, where you have rotating teams and whatnot, minis make more sense than ongoings. If everything you produce is a mini (or maxi) series, that means NO FILLER. If you finish the latest Green Lantern mini and there's no writer with a good story to tell or artist available, then you just wait until there is. No need to push out a story just because another month has passed.

[hudsonphillips]

Also, what's the need to make comics like TV? Must we make each medium match all other media in presentation?

The goal is not to make comics more like TV, the goal is to make comics better.

The problem is that I look at Batman #670 and I wonder how many issues I would have to read in order to catch up on the story of Batman. It's a seemingly impossible task.

They do a decent job of branding and marketing storylines such as "Hush" or "Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul" but there's still that daunting little 3-digit number sitting there.

Why not release Batman: Hush and number it 1-12 or however many. It just seems like more people would be willing to pick that up. Even start the first issue with a "previously in Batman" catch-up.

And to me, that's nothing like TV. You could tell a 24 issue series or a 1 issue story. I think comic books are a very unique story-telling device.

[euchre0]

Well, personally, don't particularly want comics to by like TV. But I do think that, particularly for stuff that's not creator owned, where you have rotating teams and whatnot, minis make more sense than ongoings. If everything you produce is a mini (or maxi) series, that means NO FILLER. If you finish the latest Green Lantern mini and there's no writer with a good story to tell or artist available, then you just wait until there is. No need to push out a story just because another month has passed.

Okay, now that I think about it, I wouldn't mind a small but intentional hiatus here or there. We end up having to wait for stories in progress as it is, so it really wouldn't affect my anticipation or reception. However, I wouldn't want it to become the rule across the board.

[gungadin]

Like I said, "The end" indicates the end of a story, nothing more. That is why film makers can make a sequel when the first movie said the end at the time. What's wrong with a writer having a conclusion to his story? Because those two words carry such finality to you doesn't mean the character's life stops. If Spider-man throws Doc Ock in jail for the umpteenth time, that's the end until he escapes 24 issues later. I know that at this point, you'll say "SEE! The Doc Ock story continues!" Continue it does, but the previous story was indeed finished, why let it bother you?

I don't know. The End makes is sound all... tied up nicely. I just don't like things ending I guess...

On the subject of comic seasons ending... I like that, although I think for sheer numbers (600+ issues of something is pretty fantastic) the ongoings should just go on hiatus and stuff...

[esophagus]

Batman Season 112

It's a good idea in theory, but some stuff goes on for too long. I definitely see no problem with "The End" only coming at the end of arcs, but I don't think numbered seasons is a great idea. Perhaps just the arc's name always being there? Instead of looking for Batman issues 600-605 (inaccurate numbers, I know) you could just have Batman with the subtitle under it ie: "Bruce Wayne: Murderer? Issue One" and the regular issue number where it goes now? I don't know. Just a quick thought.

[kahunablair]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fliegender/sets/1161829/

Don't know why this thread was the first thing to pop into my mind when I saw this page...

[paper]

I don't know. The End makes is sound all... tied up nicely. I just don't like things ending I guess...

Somebody's got mortality issues....

;)

[euchre0]

you could just have Batman with the subtitle under it ie: "Bruce Wayne: Murderer? Issue One" and the regular issue number where it goes now? I don't know. Just a quick thought.

I like this idea, though it seems like many books do this. Even the Bruce Wayne: Murderer? had part 1 or whatever on each issue. This allows the writer to have stories that are one, two, or three issues in length instead of having to adhere to issues as a season or something.

[gungadin]

Somebody's got mortality issues....

;)

Mortality is one of the most fascinating concepts EVER... Why do you think I like Stranger than Fiction so much? :D

[gungadin]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fliegender/sets/1161829/

Don't know why this thread was the first thing to pop into my mind when I saw this page...

Hahahahahaha... I like it... Still don't like it seeing it. Seems like a naive and childish concept...

Man I laughed when you should me that...