Open Letter: Scripting, Rev3 needs to decide now which way it wants to go.

[joeyrock]

Maybe this is a bad time to be saying this, new shows are probably being made and are going to be popping up left and right.... but this issue really been brought to my attention on a few shows and it's playing on my mind. I hope some one "of power" can take the time to read it. Thank you.

So... this is about the increase in scripting, and what that is going to mean down the line...

Just to get it out of the way, I'm avid Rev3 fan, despite my lack of posts in the forums. But now things are starting to move along quickly at this fledgling "Network"... I thought this would be a good topic for discussion.

Now I'm going to try to explain why I like the shows I watch on Rev3 and what I get out of podcasts (if we still call them that). In either video or audio form they represent the same thing, which I don't find elsewhere.
Then I'm going to say where I see a problem with the way Rev3 is splitting itself.

So, why do I watch podcasts and what do I get out of them that I'd never dream of getting out of normal TV...
Firstly, they are natural; I don't watch any which are overly scripted. The ones I like most have no script, and the hosts freely communicate, their personalities on display for all. I like when screw ups are left in, I love it when the screw ups aren't even considered "screw ups" at all. Diggnation is like this, and an example almost in it's purest form. This, to me, is the main reason for it's popularity.

Now, having no script doesn't mean that there can't be a structure. Totally Rad Show is well structured with it's defined segments, but it's not scripted. I do like it more than diggnation and it's probably my favourite show on Rev3 right now.

Shows like this are what people love about talk radio, and thus audio podcasts. TV has never been able to do this as it can't have people (personalities) just talking, shootin bull, amongst themselves. And I can see why those TV networks think that "raw content" doesn't fit on TV... there's potential for mistakes that can be taken out of context and "big money advertisers" are probably put off by not knowing what's going to come out of a host's mouth from one moment to the next.

But Rev3 is bringing that raw form entertainment to video... that's still very rare and that should really be jumped on. No one else can do that stuff. TRS adds polish with high quality graphics and great editing... I really think that is where the network should head.

I was/am a big fan of DLTV. Patrick, Robert and Roger didn't work off autocue with super quick segments and scripted links that have been worked over. I was excited by the prospects of Tekzilla as I thought Patrick would take that show's heart.. get some room with a big studio/set. And I liked Jessica's sense of humour from InDigital. But I feel that a part of those things has been lost as it's not a show I want to watch. As an explanation I can only think it's because the pressure has piled on with the responsibility of "the network".. that's not to say the guys can't handle it, the show looks great, it just feels like they have reverted to their TechTV days.

Now, I don't dislike Tekzilla, so I would feel the need to say all this if it was just that. But after the new show, Digg Reel, which I saw today. I felt I have to say something...
That show is completely like a "TV show", it's basic idea is fine. The top digg videos; it's just not at all of use to me. It's all ridged and if Jessica is just going to read out the title of the clip and then show a clip of a clip... what is the show for. I would have to go a digg or the rev3 site anyway to see it in it's entirety. I'm saying it should be a "diggnation mini", I can see the format it has currently working... it has to offer something in and of itself though.

TV nowadays is over produced, single serving, and void of natural personalities being allowed to be themselves. They can cover that up with money and ubiquity. A fledgling network on the internet can't do that, and they shouldn't do that. They have to keep themselves true to what they started with and what people came to them for in the first place. Rev3 has to look at it's shows, and the one's it wants make in the future.. then decide, are we going to be a TV network on the internet.. or a something new.

I remember when there was talk of Diggnation being broadcast on TV and there was a firm "No, that's not what where we want to go", maybe it would be a good idea to remember why that was and apply that to all the shows here..... because there is a definite split emerging.

[samureye]

I've formatted your post for ease of understanding - large paragraphs make my eyes bleed.

With that said, let's tackle what you're getting at here.

So... this is about the increase in scripting, and what that is going to mean down the line...


This is not a bad thing, it's a good thing allowing shows to have a broader appeal.

You've taken a lot of space to say the same thing - you think these things are podcasts, not shows and they shouldn't have scripts, but a structure is OK, citing the Totally Rad Show.

I disagree totally since you're basically saying you'd want all shows to be the same, unscripted talking off the top of your head. Aside from some people not being good at that, why can't we have something different? I like The Digg Reel, it's a different type of show and who cares if there's a script?

As for Totally Rad Show? Are we watching the same show? No disrespect to Dan, Alex or Jeff but they don't exactly have John Stewart/Stephen Colbert/Conan O' Brien abilities at spitballing and I get annoyed at the "uh, uh uh" though yes, I do like the show.

As for your Tekzilla complaint - I don't get what you're complaining about: you think they're under pressure from the network? I'm pretty sure they have full creative control over what goes into the show.

TV nowadays is over produced, single serving, and void of natural personalities being allowed to be themselves.
Watch better TV. Best Week Ever, The Soup - ever heard of them? Just because podcasts started off as being these things with no budget doesn't mean things can't change, improve and evolve. I view Revision3's offerings as shows, not podcasts.

[joeyrock]

Thanks for your response. I think my paragraphs are ok, I just didn't leave a space between a couple of them.. so thanks for that.

Firstly, I haven't heard of those shows you mentioned, I'm from the UK. I should clarify the TV thing... Our TV is good, I like TV.

You've taken a lot of space to say the same thing - you think these things are podcasts, not shows and they shouldn't have scripts, but a structure is OK, citing the Totally Rad Show.


When I say "podcast".. I'm not using it in a derogatory sense and the word "podcast" can be netcast, vidcast.. whatever. Also, yes, these are very much "shows". A podcast can be a show.
What can be produced here, and on internet, in "podcast" form is different from TV. I'm of the opinion that the old way of doing TV simply does not work on the internet, it barely works on TV itself. People have to actively seek out the content here, that means the viewer needs to know they aren't just a pair of eyeballs... are they going to feel that if a talking head reads a script? People who want TV.. watch TV.

I disagree totally since you're basically saying you'd want all shows to be the same, unscripted talking off the top of your head. Aside from some people not being good at that, why can't we have something different? I like The Digg Reel, it's a different type of show and who cares if there's a script?


Having no script and refraining from reeling off what's on an autocue doesn't mean all shows would be the same... some one has to write what's on the script, that comes out of their head. What I'm saying is that I don't want that step because there is no need for it. I know the hosts on the show write the scripts and fill up the autocue. Why destroy the natural rhythm by just reading out something. On TV that has to be done so everything can be preapproved, so mistakes don't happen and because the presenters don't know what they are talking about a lot of the time.
The people on Rev3 DO know what they are talking about, their personalities are what we are interested in and their mistakes don't matter.. or at least they shouldn't. So why dilute personality through reading off a script???
Most of the staff have been presenters/hosts for many years, they can do it off the cuff, I know this because I like watching shows where they do that exact thing. That is far more interesting.

As for Totally Rad Show? Are we watching the same show? No disrespect to Dan, Alex or Jeff but they don't exactly have John Stewart/Stephen Colbert/Conan O' Brien abilities at spitballing and I get annoyed at the "uh, uh uh" though yes, I do like the show.

I like TRS when Alex and Jeff laugh when Dan can't do the Netflix copy.. that's because Dan isn't an actor like the other two and isn't as experienced in front of the camera. That makes no difference to me. However he simply would not be on normal TV doing the same job. That doesn't matter on TRS because he knows what he is talking about with movies, and his point of view is an important part of show.

As for your Tekzilla complaint - I don't get what you're complaining about: you think they're under pressure from the network? I'm pretty sure they have full creative control over what goes into the show.

I should like Tekzilla more than I do because I really like DLTV and I really liked Indigital. I'm trying to pin done why it is that doesn't feel right. It's seems too wooden, they skim over topics and oversimplify. I'm putting that down to it's "TV" nature and script.

So they got some cash, a studio, and have simply gone back to making TV... whether that's good or bad is why I made this thread and what I want to discuss. I think Rev3 needs to decide on this issue. It's certainly a trend in their new shows.

Just because podcasts started off as being these things with no budget doesn't mean things can't change, improve and evolve. I view Revision3's offerings as shows, not podcasts.

The budget is irrelevant to me. If it mattered then the shows and Rev3 wouldn't have been able to get off the ground, it wouldn't have been popular and you or I wouldn't be here.
Change can be good and bad, I'm just saying that they should look to see what made them popular in the first place and not automatically expect driving forward with more "TV" looking and sounding content is the right thing to be doing.

[kronos6948]

Although I can see where Joeyrock is coming from, I think the solution isn't to totally have unscripted shows, since it's hard to keep a person's attention when it comes to a visual medium. I personally like them the way they are.

I understand the point about the way Digg Reel is, but I understand the necessity for it being that way. A show like that doesn't lend itself to one person doing improv lines for the videos to actually work, especially since it seems like there's time constraints.

Sure, some people will equate scripted shows to "selling out", like they do in the music industry, I just consider it as opening the horizons to a broader audience.

One thing to understand is that Rev3's oldest shows still have scripted moments in them. Watch the old episodes of the Broken. Sure, they're loose scripts, but scripts nonetheless. Even Martin Sargent carries around a pad for questions he's written to ask his guests on Webdrifter.

[samureye]

I think these shows are way more scripted than joeyrock imagines them not to be. Even with TWiT things are edited.

[joeyrock]

Notepad questions, editing, outlines, points for conversation, notes..... aren't scripts.

[tokenuser]

Notepad questions, editing, outlines, points for conversation, notes..... aren't scripts.No, but the point to the production that you seem to be against. There are so many podcasts I watched or listened to once then dropped from my feeds because of the dead air, "umms", or rambling from the hosts.

Having a script does not mean that you are a corporate schill. It means that you have prepared what you want to say in advance, have your thoughts in order, and are taking the presentation roll seriously.

[mrpopular]

Maybe it's just me but I can't take someone with only 22 posts seriously.

Saying that Rev3 needs to stick to a format is wrong.. This isn't TV. This is entertainment (Scripted & Nonscripted) And for the most part each show is perfect in how they do it, TRS is tons of fun, you never know what your gonna get next from the Guys. Tekzilla needs to be informative, scripted in parts.


In short. if you don't like it, buy joeyrock.com and create your own multi-million dollar show.

[skyz]

No, but the point to the production that you seem to be against. There are so many podcasts I watched or listened to once then dropped from my feeds because of the dead air, "umms", or rambling from the hosts.

Having a script does not mean that you are a corporate schill. It means that you have prepared what you want to say in advance, have your thoughts in order, and are taking the presentation roll seriously.

tv whether broadcast or internet delivered is by its very nature a product for shot term concentration

long term attention is served by film and books

once the viewer's attention wanders that is it you have lost them

some people will continue watching because they are fans of the host or the show or because it is the momentarily 'in thing' but in the long run the content has to be able to hold the viewer's interest on its own merits

in order to get the viewer to focus the presenters have to be focused

it is axiomatic

[kopp]

I have to agree with joey, to a point.

First, I think he's presented his opinion as delicately as one can and has been considerate of peoples' opinions of these shows. Just because the Rev3 people make great shows, it doesn't mean they should not encourage constructive criticism from their fans. This being on the internet should allow it to be a lot more interactive than only offering an avenue to talk up all content produced by anyone at Rev3.

It's getting to be a little discouraging for people trying to offer any criticism when every form posted(polite and informed or not) is met with the same seemingly close minded auto response of "No, you're wrong, we know what we're doing and how dare you say different." I haven't offered too much criticism of the content or presentation of the shows, but I have read many threads by people who have, and the responses from staff and fans is kinda fanatical and or needlessly defensive at times.

The same philosophy of, "Love the show or never come here again." could be applied to some of the replies to polite and well intentioned criticisms posted here.

Now, because I am posting criticism, it does not mean that I will only be happy with the shows if they appeal to me every episode, all the time. Some episodes are great, some not so great. Also, because I picked up on and partially agree with some of joey's points, it doesn't mean I think the downfall of Rev3 is nye and everyone should run for the hills. I love these shows and will continue to watch.

I've never made video or audio with an intended audience before, so I have no input as to how it is technically or logistically done correctly. But I have had a lot of experience with watching it. I know what formats I respond to and which ones I don't. It seems logical that trying out new formats will generate different reactions for different people. Given. You say you are trying to reach a larger audience. Okay. I thought one of the functions of this forum was to find out the response of the viewers, and to aid in show and topic selection. So truthful feedback, politely positive OR negative, seems also to be a given in this case. How else are you going to get the feedback necessary to decide how affective a change was?

I am a giant nerd and have been following these shows from the beginning. From the start they have been both entertaining and informative beyond compare to the vast majority of other offerings.

So, in defense of Joey I'm going to have to support what was said in that I think some of the shows FEEL scripted and rigid at times. As if someone were reading verbatim from a preplanned dialog to hit cues and meet timed rhythms. Even if hardcore, can't miss a beat, scripting is happening on a larger portion of the shows, it doesn't FEEL like it. They feel like I'm watching a show where people with a loose agenda intelligently converse about topics, throw in their opinions, or making side comments while giving loosely defined but well informed and knowledgeable instructions. The shows that come off more natural are more enjoyable for me to watch, regardless of the topics or content level.

Normally I wouldn't bitch just because I was unhappy with one episode of a show, but the initial response to the first post seemed to come off as ,"In order to meet a wider audience, some shows will now appear more scripted and feel less natural.", This has prompted me to chime in.

You cannot argue that this first episode of The Digg Reel had a different feel to it. The Digg Reel FELT scripted. I enjoy the personality she brings to other shows. Hopefully this was just an off show for her. Hopefully this was not the intended format. I don't understand what audience you could be trying to reach that would want it to feel so. Some episodes of other shows felt like they definitely could've used more direction. But overall I like the way the natural format of the shows come off, and would be disappointed to see it done any other way.

There are very few TV shows that are blatantly scripted (very little 'acting' or improved input) and are enjoyable to watch. Most are documentary in nature and are narrated. Pretty much all the content of Rev3 seems to be Review, Instruction, or Opinion. Of course there is going to be an underlying structure to each show, but I don't see a way to enjoy these types of topics if it were not formated in a generally open structure(or at least outwardly appeared to be). Regular scripted news is boring. I have rss software. I can pull up facts from as many sources as I feel like. I also have access to digg.com. I can monitor and watch posts, links, or videos as they are posted. I like hearing Alex and Kevin's opinions on diggnation. I would like to hear her opinion of these videos. If someone else is deciding what is to be said, let them say it on camera. It is more enjoyable if it feels genuine.

The clips of clips was indeed off. It made it difficult to get into the flow of the show. While I was trying to watch the show, I was asking questions about why you would choose not to show an entire clip. Was it because there is not enough traffic in this part of digg.com? Was it because it would've made the show's file size too big? The point is I was distracted by this choice to a point that I consciously thought about it and agree that it was odd.

Production levels, set and editing improvements, broader range of shows and topics; these seem to be things that can be upgraded and improved without affecting the natural flow of the shows. I don't think joey made any comment on these types of improvements or changes to the shows. His main statement seemed to be that the shows were taking on a different attitude towards addressing the viewers with content.

So, yes, change good. Not giving your fans a fair chance to comment on the changes made, bad.

Thank you for the wonderful content to date, and I look forward to be entertained many more times.

[joeyrock]

Wow...!

Clearly because I have amassed only 22 posts I'm a passing Rev3 watcher and my opinions don't matter.. Regardless of the fact that I've watched every show here, the ones I really keep up with I've been with from the very first episode.
Some of you must have not actually read any of my posts because you would find that I've not once alluded to "selling out".. "corporate shillery".. I've not said anywhere I've hated anything what-so-ever.

"Notepad questions, editing, outlines, points for conversation, notes"

Are vital.. OBVIOUSLY... they just aren't "scripting". They aren't something I have a problem with on any level.

I would have thought wall to wall "scripting".. NOT.. having anything at all to do with a show's format is a very simple concept to grasp. Having a talking head read out something isn't at all interesting to me. And that doesn't mean I wouldn't like some kind of drama or sit-comedy which is purposefully scripted, I'm not talking about that. I'm referring to the magazine shows which currently make the line up.

Rev3 is in a unique position to offer something on the internet which TV isn't able to do. I can see them taking advantage of that in some shows and not in others. The new shows are moving back into old media practices to a much greater degree. I don't think that's what people want.

Maybe I like this place more than you lot because I care enough to worry about it's future, it's place in the market and how it monetises it's content. If it had people like me watching more of it's shows then it can continue to make content in the future. I wrote all this because I wanted to try and explain why I'm not feeling some of the shows.
Heaven forbid some one from the target audience comes here and tries to offer their support and the feedback that is always asked for.
What more else can I do???

[balzout]

He makes a fine point. He isn't bashing any shows or hating on anything. He is almost saying "Beware revision3! You are looking like G4" which although I disagree with that, I can definitely see where he gets that. With shows like the digg reel coming out (Nothing wrong with the digg reel just reminds me of g4) where a host is simply reading from a teleprompter one can't deny the fact that newer revision3 show are taking the form of...like he said..."old media practices."

I am quite sad to see the response to this thread because after reading this thread through, it is filled with alot more insight than many of the other threads that get thousands of views. This guy was not just looking for attention and criticizing a show. He has substance in his argument and some valid points and in the end, I think he is simply concerned, concerned because he doesn't want to see the network he loves turn into something that he knows its not. We must respect him for this.

[samureye]

Wow...!

Clearly because I have amassed only 22 posts I'm a passing Rev3 watcher and my opinions don't matter.. Regardless of the fact that I've watched every show here, the ones I really keep up with I've been with from the very first episode.
Some of you must have not actually read any of my posts because you would find that I've not once alluded to "selling out".. "corporate shillery".. I've not said anywhere I've hated anything what-so-ever.

"Notepad questions, editing, outlines, points for conversation, notes"

Are vital.. OBVIOUSLY... they just aren't "scripting". They aren't something I have a problem with on any level.

I would have thought wall to wall "scripting".. NOT.. having anything at all to do with a show's format is a very simple concept to grasp. Having a talking head read out something isn't at all interesting to me. And that doesn't mean I wouldn't like some kind of drama or sit-comedy which is purposefully scripted, I'm not talking about that. I'm referring to the magazine shows which currently make the line up.

Rev3 is in a unique position to offer something on the internet which TV isn't able to do. I can see them taking advantage of that in some shows and not in others. The new shows are moving back into old media practices to a much greater degree. I don't think that's what people want.

Maybe I like this place more than you lot because I care enough to worry about it's future, it's place in the market and how it monetises it's content. If it had people like me watching more of it's shows then it can continue to make content in the future. I wrote all this because I wanted to try and explain why I'm not feeling some of the shows.
Heaven forbid some one from the target audience comes here and tries to offer their support and the feedback that is always asked for.
What more else can I do???


Generally people with lower post counts aren't taken seriously because it seems as though they've just come in to troll, you'd be surprised how right people are to feel that way about that.

At the end of it all, I see no problems with things getting scripted. As for "being like G4" if you're talking about shows with decent production value then I see that as a good thing. If not, someone tell me why it's popular to bash G4 still.

We're hearing the criticisms, but I personally disagree with the point of being scripted as bad. When Alex was working on the now shelved sitcom, what would you have said? Diggnation is the type you like, The Digg Reel isn't. I guess you're not used to web shows looking like TV shows, but a lot of people are and probably prefer it the way Tekzilla and The Digg Reel are. Also, I lot of people don't care either way, like me.

But rest assured, your criticisms are heard and The Digg Reel will be undergoing changes and evolving. I hear someone else may get in on the action to help out Jessica.