Wednesdays just never... stop... coming - Comics reviews & discussion for 01/23/08!

[conorkilpatrick]

Tell us what you thought of the books of the week!

If you want to see what's on the iFanboys' pull list, check it out here (http://www.ifanboy.com/archive/weblog/january_23rd_20.html).

The Pick of the Week is:

http://www.ifanboy.com/images/pick_012308-thumb.jpg (http://www.ifanboy.com/archive/pickoftheweek/01242008_hellbl.html)

Watch out for SPOILERS because from here on out people are talking about the books of the week.

[fred]

Wednesdays just never... stop... coming

Fucking tell me about it.

[luthor]

Countdown continued to be good this week...but there was some BAD art/colouring mistakes towards the end of the book.

[fred]

It's Countdown ... of course there were.

[kahunablair]

I enjoyed Countdown quite a bit.

Outside of Kingdom Come, Red Robin hasn't been a key character has he?

[steve-m-]

Messiah Complex had, imho, an awesome ending. I could not wait to read it, so read it over lunch.

Just want to point out to Conor and Ron, if you look back to New X-Men 33-ish, the Predator X creatures were bred specifically to kill the Messiah child--that Nimrod's data banks had told Rev. Stryker about. So, if he/she/it wan't in these books, it would be a major continuity error. And Ron, we know you love you some continuity. ;)

Ultimates 3 was still all over the place, but I intrigued to see where it will go. already they have a lot to wrap up in 3 more issues.

[cormano]

I've read X-Men, Spider-Man and Young Avengers Presents so far. All were good, but I'm gonna be surprised if YAP doesn't get pick of the week… it was awesome! I'll do some reviews after I've read the rest of my stack.

[jo-relrollins]

Messiah Complex had, imho, an awesome ending. I could not wait to read it, so read it over lunch.

Just want to point out to Conor and Ron, if you look back to New X-Men 33-ish, the Predator X creatures were bred specifically to kill the Messiah child--that Nimrod's data banks had told Rev. Stryker about. So, if he/she/it wan't in these books, it would be a major continuity error. And Ron, we know you love you some continuity. ;)

Ultimates 3 was still all over the place, but I intrigued to see where it will go. already they have a lot to wrap up in 3 more issues.

The part about the child is in New X-men issue 36. I can't believe i didn't see that before. It shows a flashback where Stryker pretty much tells all about the child and what his plans were. Ur comment made me go back and look. That was in the begininng of last year awhile before they even announced Messiah Complex, good find.

By the way still going through my books it looks like it was a pretty good week.

[dave-accampo]

Messiah Complex had, imho, an awesome ending. I could not wait to read it, so read it over lunch.

Let me echo that sentiment. i was rather pleased and surprised. There are STILL a few twists in the final issue, and while I know it's ultimately impermanent in comics, they HAVE changed a lot in the X-world for the time being. And that's pretty fun.

The baby revelation may not satisfy those looking for a certain type of answer, but I thought there was a clean conclusion to the all the hullabaloo. It was more of an emotional conclusion than a giant plot twist.

but yeah, I'll be curious to see what comes next.

[neb]

Just finished my books for this week. I thought it was going to be pretty light and "meh" but it turned out to be pretty farking awesome. Some thoughts...

Young Avengers Presents: Patriot: I enjoyed this issue, as it reminded me why I liked these characters so much. It also reminded why I miss Steve Rogers in the Marvel U so much as well. This had some emotional punch to it, but it's really nice to see these characters in the post Civil War world. It makes me long for old series. Sigh...

Amazing Spider-Man #546: You know, I think I'm beginning to loosen up a bit on this whole Spider-Man thing because I really enjoyed this book. The plot wrapped up, but also left a lot of avenues open to the character. As I was reading, I was thinking less about OMD and more about the craft of the issue. I really enjoyed McNiven's pencils and Slott's spidey is really awesome. THis isn't issue of the year or anything, but well worth the price of admission.

Marvel Zombies 2 #4: You know, I loved the first book. I mean, really loved it. But this mini has really been kind of "meh" for me. There's great, hilarious moments (like Hawkeye saying, "Be my friend." after firing arrows into Hank Pym's head), but the story, overall, is wholly uninteresting. I'm in till the finale, but I question whether I'll hang onto these issues or not.

Punisher #54: One word. BRUTAL. This took grisly, multiplied it by a billion, then shot it in the face. This was a really fun issue, and great ending to a surprisingly good story. I don't know what it is about this series, but it just continues to capture me. That may be a bad thing, seeing as it's completely violent and disturbing.

Teen Titans #54: You know, I've been trying to really get into this series, but it has not yet wowed me. The previous storyline was fun, but confusing, and I still don't feel like I know these characters at all. I'm going to stick with it to see where McKeever goes with this next storyline. The art this issue did nothing for me, and I miss the person that drew the last arc. I'm hoping both the art and story pick it up next month.

My POW: Hellblazer #240
I picked this book up over a year ago, and it has continued to be amazing. This issue really kicked ass, and I'm crazy amped for what's going to happen next. Like, I want them to put the next issue out right now. Diggle has my vote to write this series for the rest of his life. Simply fantastic.

...I also picked up B.R.P.D. 1946 and The Incredible Herc off of recommendations from others. I enjoyed both immensely, although I found Herc to be really, really kick ass. Amadeus Cho is just a fun character to read and Herc is pretty cool too.

[lucero]

I really enjoyed Astonishing this week. It was a nice setup for the upcoming giant size. Boy I'm really gonna miss Cassaday's art when it's all said and done.

[dave-accampo]

...I also picked up B.R.P.D. 1946 and The Incredible Herc off of recommendations from others. I enjoyed both immensely, although I found Herc to be really, really kick ass. Amadeus Cho is just a fun character to read and Herc is pretty cool too.

Nice reviews, but I just wanted to say: Can we all agree that the best thing to come out of World War Hulk is Incredible Hercules? I can't believe I'm buying a Hercules title, but damn, it's a fun book!

[luthor]

Herc's a great character and is really under rated. I see a lot of the Herc that was portrayed in the previous Heroes for Hire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroes_for_Hire#Heroes_for_Hire_.281996.29) series in this interpretation.

[itsbecca]

All I have to say about Gotham Underground is....

"Who says black folk don't like the cold?"

No. I'm serious. Who does say that???



Countdown, I have to echo it's awesomeness. I was physically excited as I turned each page. I must've had a big goofy grin on my face. There was so much fun packed into so few pages.

ASM? I can't say anything about ASM. But I do own two copies of last weeks issue now. I'm starting to realize the problem of having someone else pick up your comics for you.

[neb]

Nice reviews, but I just wanted to say: Can we all agree that the best thing to come out of World War Hulk is Incredible Hercules? I can't believe I'm buying a Hercules title, but damn, it's a fun book!

Werd. I was, at first, resistant to this title, but it has won me over. I'm in for the long haul.

[kwok_talk]

Nice reviews, but I just wanted to say: Can we all agree that the best thing to come out of World War Hulk is Incredible Hercules? I can't believe I'm buying a Hercules title, but damn, it's a fun book!
(Nodding furiously)
Never liked Herc before, but this is something I look forward to every month now!

[luthor]

If the person who drew the cover to Teen Titans #55 knew how to draw faces, I'd say it was the cover of the week. Unfortunately he/she doesn't and it's not.

[hansolo69]

I've been on Teen Titans since issue 1 and this was the worst one ever. The art was horrible, they all looked 35 at the youngest. The story was boring, waayyy too much conversation after an action packed arc. I know it's not good to have every issue filled to the brim with fighting, but Teen Titans has always had a good balance and I found myself wanting to skip pages at a time.

My shop didn't get in YAP for some reason or another so I'll have to go by and see if it comes in tomorrow, but so far i think Countdown was the best book of the week.

The Messiah Complex conclusion was good, but the ending...Professor X dying and the x-men disbanding AGAIN? ugh.

I really liked Ultimates 3 number 1, both for art and story, and issue 2 was off on both. The dialog was horrible. Way out of the vibe of the Ultimate Universe, and kind of like MC...Magento and the brotherhood coming back..AGAIN?



This Wednesday has left me jaded.

[racemccloud]

Hey, all! Hope everyone had a good comics day. A lot of big books this week; I was surprisingly "meh" on a bunch of them. Here's my thoughts:

Astonishing X-Men #24 - The most badass X-Men team is actually in this book. I actually didn't like this issue, only because it didn't come packaged with Giant Sized Astonishing X-Men so I could finish reading the story RIGHT NOW! (So, in actuality, this is still awesome. Though not as awesome as last issue.)

Young Avengers Presents: Patriot - The Good: Ed Brubaker, Eli, Kate and Bucky. The Bad: The less than stellar art really took away from the story for me, personally. But I love this character. Good read.

The Ultimates 3 #2 - Makes me want to go right back and read Ultimates 1 and Ultimates 2... to remind me that book used to be a "must read" instead of a "must I read?" Sadly, I will still buy this. I'm a sucker.

Teen Titans #55 - The Good: The time traveling is over (for now.) The bad: not one person on this team seems to be likable, the team that was supposed to be set as of #50 is still in total flux, and the art blows. Why do I STILL not like this book? I swear, if I didn't like Robin and Wonder Girl so much it would be so dropped... oh, and at some point, these people will stop being so "Teen" and be a little more "Titan", right? Here's hoping Blue Beetle and Supergirl stick around.

She-Hulk #25 - Peter David, to me, is very much hit or miss. His "Young Justice" and his "X-Factor" (both incarnations) are two of my favorite books of all time. I'm willing to wait on it a bit, but I think his "She Hulk" may be a miss for me. Too bad. I love him, and I enjoyed Slott on this character so much.

The Punisher #54 - I think Ennis is leaving this book, which is sad, because I've thoroughly enjoyed every... single... issue of his run. This is no exception. (Earlier reviewer was right, though. Brutal!)

POTW - X-Men First Class # 8 - I blew this book off when it was first announced and when it first hit. I've since gone back and gotten all the issues. They are all a great deal of fun, and really deliver the original team with all of their personality and energy intact. It feels like visiting with old friends, back when you loved them the most. This issue: Man-Thing, and glimpses into some of the original five's possible futures, one of which is particularly harrowing, all of which show that any one of them has the potential to go horribly awry. Beautiful art here, too, by Eric Nguyen. If you're an X-Fan or old school Marvel fan not buying this book, you should be.

The Amazing Spider-Man #548 - I'm finally getting it. "Brand New Day" is not some mega event, and this does not feel like a mega-event. It's good old-fashioned, issue to issue Spider-Man storytelling, and it works like a charm. It's a good thing.

X-Men #207: Messiah CompleX Ch. 13 - Hey, look at this! It's a totally awesome X-Men crossover event that I totally enjoyed! However, it's a totally awesome X-Men crossover event that I totally enjoyed... DESIGNED WITH THE SOLE PURPOSE OF GETTING ME TO BUY SIX MORE BOOKS A MONTH IF I WANT ANY OF THE ANSWERS TO THE QUESTIONS POSED IN THIS SERIES! Although I enjoyed it, I actually feel a little dirty and used. Ew. It's a business, folks. It's a business. Honestly, I'm probably back to just buying X-Factor. Maybe Cable. But only if Deadpool shows up. Who's writing Uncanny? Okay, I'll get all of 'em. Maybe. Or I'll just catch up in a year on Wikipedia.

DROPPED THIS WEEK: Ultimate Fantastic Four. I just realized I've never liked it. Who knew? The FF just don't work as a group of surly teenagers.

[jasontodd]

I think that Countdown #14 continues the cycle of this weekly DC book getting better and better. There were some coloring mistakes with Red Robin... but since this is a weekly book, I'm able to look past that. This book is building up to some major sh!t, the least of which is Superboy Prime attacking the Monarch.

This series continues to thrill, and it keeps getting better with each issue. Does anyone think that Donna Troy will keep her new costume from this issue? I like it.

X-men #207 however, was not very good. I really don't see why anyone liked this storyline. It was extremely anti-climatic... just like every other Marvel event. And I really thought that all of the X-books were heading in the right direction prior to this storyline.

[conorkilpatrick]

This series continues to thrill, and it keeps getting better with each issue. Does anyone think that Donna Troy will keep her new costume from this issue? I like it.

No, I think it's just a homage to her old Wonder Girl days.

[dave-accampo]

X-men #207 however, was not very good. I really don't see why anyone liked this storyline. It was extremely anti-climatic... just like every other Marvel event. And I really thought that all of the X-books were heading in the right direction prior to this storyline.

Huh. I gotta ask -- what did you feel was anti-climactic? I actually thought it paid off quite nicely.

I suspect people wanted some "plot twist" about the baby, but I thought the baby served exactly the role she was supposed to serve: she represents the future. The future can go two directions: Bishop or Cable. The baby represents both. Cyke makes the decision to let the baby live and see what comes of the future. To me, that's a great emotional climax.

Plus - big changes to the status quo and several new directions. I thought it accomplished EXACTLY what it set out to do.

[dave-accampo]

Ultimates 3.2 - OK, I'm done. I don't hate Loeb with the passion that some folks do, and Loeb's Word Balloon interview had me interested in the mystery he's set up, but this book was just...not...good. The dialogue, as someone said, was awful -- filled with awkward exposition.

While I am curious about the mystery on the most basic plot levels, I just can't pay for this any longer.


Astonishing X-men 24 - While perhaps not as 'exciting' as the last issue, this book continues it's excellence. I think Whedon's completely nailed the X-men with this storyline, and I'm soooo bummed it's almost over.

[dave-accampo]

Herc's a great character and is really under rated. I see a lot of the Herc that was portrayed in the previous Heroes for Hire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroes_for_Hire#Heroes_for_Hire_.281996.29) series in this interpretation.

Oh, I dug that little series (Ostrander and Pascual Ferry)! I don't remember Herc leaving much of an impression on me. I remember him more from his stint on the Avengers in the late 80's.

But this new series is very good stuff - even if you've never read (or liked) Herc before.

[racemccloud]

Huh. I gotta ask -- what did you feel was anti-climactic? I actually thought it paid off quite nicely.

I suspect people wanted some "plot twist" about the baby, but I thought the baby served exactly the role she was supposed to serve: she represents the future. The future can go two directions: Bishop or Cable. The baby represents both. Cyke makes the decision to let the baby live and see what comes of the future. To me, that's a great emotional climax.

Plus - big changes to the status quo and several new directions. I thought it accomplished EXACTLY what it set out to do.

If what it "set out" to do was sell a bunch of X-Men comics, sure. Hey, that's not fair; I thought it was good. I was hoping for a cleaner wrap-up, but it just wouldn't be the X-Men then, would it?

[dave-accampo]

If what it "set out" to do was sell a bunch of X-Men comics, sure. Hey, that's not fair; I thought it was good. I was hoping for a cleaner wrap-up, but it just wouldn't be the X-Men then, would it?

Yeah, see, for serialized fiction, I think this is the way to go. They DID change things and give answers, but they also set up a new direction for the next year or so. I was just reading the solicitations that have just been revealed on Newsarama (http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/xmen/Divided/solicitations.html), and while all the books are not for me, there is a diversity there, and there's also a clear direction for everything. And I think that's a good thing.

[racemccloud]

Yeah, see, for serialized fiction, I think this is the way to go. They DID change things and give answers, but they also set up a new direction for the next year or so. I was just reading the solicitations that have just been revealed on Newsarama (http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/xmen/Divided/solicitations.html), and while all the books are not for me, there is a diversity there, and there's also a clear direction for everything. And I think that's a good thing.

Yeah, well, I think you're right about that. At the end of the day, Marvel is in the business (as is DC and every publisher) of selling more comics. If the story that takes them to that point is entertaining (as Messiah CompleX was) who am I to complain? Nobody has to buy those six books; I'll probably just keep on with X-Factor. All in all, I'd call Messiah CompleX a success, even if I was a bit underwhelemed with the last chapter. (Although nice moments with Cyke/Cable/Baby Jean or whoever that's supposed to be.)

[racemccloud]

Correction: After reading the soliciations, I may also be into Uncanny and Cable.

[dave-accampo]

I don't know if Crime Bible #4 was as strong as the previous couple issues, but this was still really enjoyable. First of all, Vic Sage Question fans get a real treat in this issue as Montoya heads to Hub City, and we get some scenes with Izzy O'Toole and Myra Fermin -- I gotta say, Rucka's practically channeling O'Neill with this issue.

I'm definitely intrigued by Montoya's dealings with the Dark Faith and the Crime Bible and I'm really going to miss this book when it ends. Would it be too much to ask for a Question ongoing series??? I mean, come on!

[dave-accampo]

Correction: After reading the soliciations, I may also be into Uncanny and Cable.

Uncanny interests me because it seems to be about a non-team, which I kinda like. Kinda like when Joe Casey took over Wildcats 2.0, and it was about a team that no longer had a reason to be a team, but were still connected by the past.

I have to admit that i'm also curious to see what Carey does with X-men Legacy, a book which is apparently focusing on Xavier and Magneto. This idea interests me. I guess I think about what Carey can do with archetypal characters like Lucifer, and I imagine what he could do with the archetypes of Xavier and Magneto.

So...I see potential.

[dave-accampo]

Last thing about X-men #207:

Here's what I liked about the baby: if you WANT there to be a big reveal that it's a reincarnated Jean Grey or whatever...then you can believe that and debate it for the next few years. They gave some nice, vague hints.

But to me, it wasn't about the baby as much as it was about Cyke seeing the baby as a human being, filled with potential for great hope or great disaster, and then letting her just be a baby.

[benjaminsimpson]

Nice reviews, but I just wanted to say: Can we all agree that the best thing to come out of World War Hulk is Incredible Hercules? I can't believe I'm buying a Hercules title, but damn, it's a fun book!
Totally. I have no interest in any of the Aftersmash books, and the only real reason I'm getting Hulk is because Ed McGuinness is drawing it, but Herclues is a really fun read so far. I skipped the first issue, but got it and the second issues after a guy in my office said they were good. I'm onboard now.

[jasontodd]

Huh. I gotta ask -- what did you feel was anti-climactic? I actually thought it paid off quite nicely.

I suspect people wanted some "plot twist" about the baby, but I thought the baby served exactly the role she was supposed to serve: she represents the future. The future can go two directions: Bishop or Cable. The baby represents both. Cyke makes the decision to let the baby live and see what comes of the future. To me, that's a great emotional climax.

Plus - big changes to the status quo and several new directions. I thought it accomplished EXACTLY what it set out to do.

Oh, I didn't need any major "plot twists". I just wanted some gravitas to this story. Basically for 12 issues, we've followed this baby that was born. There's 2 possible futures for this baby; one in which it is the savior, and one in which it is a major villain. In the end, the baby is sent out of our timeline, and Prof X is accidently killed. That was the conclusion of "Messiah Complex". I just don't see how Cyclops deciding to send the baby into the future had a major payoff for you if you'd read all 12 issues.

Why was this an emotional climax?

[six-gun]

I'm really looking forward to getting the first Diggle Hellblazer trade

[jimski]

It's probably better, when it comes to Messiah Complex, to either know absolutely nothing about the X-Men or know way more than I do. When it comes to the 90s continuity, it's all fuzzy half-memories for me, so I burned too many calories on things like remembering which alternate future was better. (I always thought Cable's future was dystopian and Bishop's was great for mutants, but then I read this and Cable's all "save the future" and Bishop's all "noooo!" and I'm all "????")

[s1lentslayer]

Messiah Complex - still don't know who the baby is after 13 issues of a story all about the baby...disappointed

Ultimates 3 - still like it

Marvel Zombies - still has some funny parts

Ultimate Iron Man 2 - still throwing out the twists...I like this alternate origin story

[dave-accampo]

Why was this an emotional climax?

For me? Everyone wanted the baby for different reasons, and they all went to hell fighting over her. Showed how fragile the "dream" is, and worked as an excellent way to show the effect of all the "futures" that the X-men have faced over the years.

Cyke's been chasing this baby like it's an Object, and he came face to face with her and it made him HUMAN again. He felt "fatherly", and he handed the baby over to Cable. The fact that Cable and Cyke are father and son create a nice symmetry. At the same time, Xavier has lost face with the X-men and he comes back and is shot. He's the father of the X-men in so many ways, so it was kinda about how this whole "fight for the future" results in so much carnage in the present. The death of the dream.

That's what I took away from it. It's certainly not the END of anything -- it's more about setting up a new direction...but I think it's a pretty meaty direction.

[luthor]

Was the Superman Confidential that came out yesterday the start of B. Clay Moore/Phil Hester run?

[conorkilpatrick]

Was the Superman Confidential that came out yesterday the start of B. Clay Moore/Phil Hester run?

No, it was the conclusion of the Darwyn Cooke/Tim Sale story.

[euchre0]

"Who says black folk don't like the cold?"

No. I'm serious. Who does say that???

Pretty much all the black people I know.

[kahunablair]

So... Faker concluded this week.
WHAT THE HECK?
Anyone else read it? I'm confused.

[conorkilpatrick]

So... Faker concluded this week.
WHAT THE HECK?
Anyone else read it? I'm confused.

Your guess is as good as mine.

[dave-accampo]

So... Faker concluded this week.
WHAT THE HECK?
Anyone else read it? I'm confused.

So... I was thinking about getting this when it's traded. Should I not? What's your assessment of the story as whole?

[kahunablair]

Good to know I'm not the only one. I got a weird feeling that I missed the "Message".
It's good to know I didn't miss something, it was just a bizarre story.

[jaflanagan]

Good to know I'm not the only one. I got a weird feeling that I missed the "Message".
It's good to know I didn't miss something, it was just a bizarre story.

I think I pretty much got it. I liked it just fine. Not the best thing ever, but pretty good. I liked the experimental nature of it. Now, it's important to add that if I were holding the book right now, I could probably tell you what happened, but as I'm not, I don't know if I could quite relate the events.

That might mean something.

[kahunablair]

So, was the message that everyone is a Liar, but we enjoy it?
That's the closest thing I could get to a "message".
I almost wish that it was just a story, and I didn't get the "message" feeling. As far as strange tales, this was a bizarre fun one. Sadly, I think it got twisted because they wanted to convey something more then just a story.

[itsbecca]

Pretty much all the black people I know.

Seriously? I've never heard that in my life. How does this come up in normal conversation?

[conorkilpatrick]

Seriously? I've never heard that in my life. How does this come up in normal conversation?

It's true - I hear it all the time too. It usually comes up in conversation when it's cold out.

[labor_days]

Does it?

I never heard such an expression either. I Googled it after Becca mentioned it and came up with nothing.

[itsbecca]

It's true - I hear it all the time too. It usually comes up in conversation when it's cold out.

Well thank you for the obvious. Rather, I mean what would a person potentially say?

"Damn it's cold outside."
"Dude, it's not that bad. You're just being black."

I don't get it.

[dave-accampo]

I don't think it's something that would show up in google. But I've found (particularly with a good friend of mine who is black) that black folks are the biggest supporters of black stereotypes. :D

Ashy knees, not good swimmers, don't like the cold, etc. ;)

[dave-accampo]

"Damn it's cold outside."
"Dude, it's not that bad. You're just being black."

LOL, I'm sorry...I'm just laughing because this dialogue sounds EXACTLY like something Michael from The Office would say. :D

[conorkilpatrick]

Well thank you for the obvious. Rather, I mean what would a person potentially say?

"Damn it's cold outside."
"Dude, it's not that bad. You're just being black."

I don't get it.

As Dave said it's said by black people I know. I can't give you exact quotes because it hasn't been that cold in a while around here.

[labor_days]

I don't think it's something that would show up in google. But I've found (particularly with a good friend of mine who is black) that black folks are the biggest supporters of black stereotypes.Well, usually urban dictionary and google can demystify certain terms and words. I actually never heard the expression. Puzzling.

[dave-accampo]

Well, usually urban dictionary and google can demystify certain terms and words. I actually never heard the expression. Puzzling.

Yeah, but it's not really an expression, per se. It's more of just how you reference everything about your culture. As Conor said, it would be a black guy saying, "damn it's cold, and you know we're built for the African sun, so we just don't handle the cold too well!" Like that.

NOT saying that it's true or anything, just that it's how folks talk. I worked in a very multicultural office, and when everyone's of a different race you actually get to see that many minorities just have fun with race and stereotypes and such. Very easygoing about it.

Edited to add: not trying to make a big statement about any particular race or culture here -- just describing my experience, ya know?

[itsbecca]

I'm not saying I'm offended. I've just never heard that stereotype. Either way you cut it, I'm just hoping the next issue has some sort of reference to someone being a Jew about something.


EDIT: Dave I guess I could see someone saying that. Although, it seems applicable to hispanics as well. Weird how these things work.

[dave-accampo]

I'm not saying I'm offended. I've just never heard that stereotype. Either way you cut it, I'm just hoping the next issue has some sort of reference to someone being a Jew about something.

If a Jewish person says it? Could work. See, the same office I was referring to was run by Russians, many of whom were Jewish. And they would ALWAYS make "Jew" jokes. :)

[itsbecca]

If a Jewish person says it? Could work. See, the same office I was referring to was run by Russians, many of whom were Jewish. And they would ALWAYS make "Jew" jokes. :)

No I will be saying it. There will be a large splash page, and I'll have one hand on my hip and the other pointing directly forward at the reader and making a joke about Jews.

No but seriously. It was a crazy issue.

[six-gun]

I'm torn on Young Avengers Presents #1.

o be honest, i felt the first part was a bit middling, I thought that Brubaker has a great feel on Patriot and how to write a teenager with a chip on his shoulder, but I thought that the school-room scene was unnecessary. The book's dialog in other places told us more about Patriot's demeanor than those few pages and they came across as a bit of a cliche.

Then we go to the fight, which was far too similar to last year's phenomenal Winter Kills, but less exciting and with bad art.

Then we get Patriot and Bucky in Steve's apartment and Bru smacks the ball out of the park. Bucky delivers an incredible speech on Patriotism that doesn't feel like Cap talking, but actually Buck's words expressing the teaching of his mentor.

I thought that the first 2/3 of the book was B- material, but the ending was A+ work Overall the book was a B+

[ryan79]

Since I had a small week, I figured I'd check the back issue bins to try and fill some holes. While digging, I found the first thirteen issues of 'The Boys'.

Why not?

I put them all in my folder and I'm going to get a few every week. So far, so good. I think I made a good choice.

[horatio616]

I love Jodeci and I'm very vulnerable to cold. I think my mom and I need to have a talk.

I really want to by Ultimates 3 #2, but the consensus here is that it blows...
Is the art still pretty murky?

[jadedhalo]

X-Men #207 - I'll give Messiah Complex some credit, it came out for 13 weeks straight on time and I was always excited about the next chapter. The conclusion? Well it felt more like the end of an Act 1 of a bigger picture than really a conclusion.

Still don't know anything about the baby. I'm not really interested in who the baby is, I'm really interested in why the baby was a mutant when it was born instead of manifesting during puberty.

Professor X is dead. Good, he's been irrelevant since Morrison's run. Let him take a dirt nap until someone can figure out where he fits into.

The other big thing that happened that no one seems to be talking about is Rogue is back.... and with a clean slate! Not sure how I feel about a status quo with her but it could be interesting to see a fresh Rogue.

I'm really interested in the upcoming stories in the X-titles. X-Factor has a lot to work with. Brubaker is finally getting a handle on the X-Men and he seems to be good at rebuilding characters after taking them down so I'll be on board with Uncanny. I'll checkout X-Force too. I mean, a black ops X-Men team? Duh.

Oh yeah, and Cable is still a tool.

[paper]

Yes, I've been known to read comics on occasion.

Young Avengers Presents was a little preachy for me. I like the idea, but it missed the mark.

Astonishing X-Men was just the quiet before the coming Giant zsized storm.

Hellblazer is pretty solid. My pick this week.

[euchre0]

Yeah, but it's not really an expression, per se. It's more of just how you reference everything about your culture.
Most of the times I hear it is when, like you said, they are poking fun at their own cultural stereotypes. Like, "Hey, you want to go grab a burrito for lunch?" and they would respond with "Hell no, I only eat fried chicken and watermelon!" Chances are, "watermelon" isn't in an urban dictionary. Maybe it is, I don't know.

Frankly, I only hear about it when my black friends use it as an excuse not to do something, like "Hey can you help me carry some stuff in from the car?" "Man, I would, but black people don't like the cold."

stuff like that.

[mikegraham6]

we really need to get Tim Sale over at Marvel, Loeb is crapping all over my favorite books and this looks like it would be the only way to whip him into shape.

[dave-accampo]

Most of the times I hear it is when, like you said, they are poking fun at their own cultural stereotypes. Like, "Hey, you want to go grab a burrito for lunch?" and they would respond with "Hell no, I only eat fried chicken and watermelon!" Chances are, "watermelon" isn't in an urban dictionary. Maybe it is, I don't know.

Frankly, I only hear about it when my black friends use it as an excuse not to do something, like "Hey can you help me carry some stuff in from the car?" "Man, I would, but black people don't like the cold."

stuff like that.

HAHAHHA...YES! I know exactly what you're saying here.

[dave-accampo]

Young Avengers Presents was a little preachy for me. I like the idea, but it missed the mark.

Paper, I agree with you and Six Gun on this. Brubaker's good, but this felt...too much like an afterschool special in some ways? It was too aware of itself.

[mikegraham6]

Anyone else extremely upset they are cancelling The Order with issue 10? i haven't read this week's issue but this series has just started kicking ass!!!

[dave-accampo]

Anyone else extremely upset they are cancelling The Order with issue 10? i haven't read this week's issue but this series has just started kicking ass!!!

Count me among that number, Mike! I haven't read this week's issue either, but this series was really getting going. I'm bummed.

[itsbecca]

we really need to get Tim Sale over at Marvel, Loeb is crapping all over my favorite books and this looks like it would be the only way to whip him into shape.

*mutter* correlation does not equal causation *mutter*

[mikegraham6]

*mutter* correlation does not equal causation *mutter*
explanation:
Jeph Loeb + Tim Sale + popular character = gold
gold - Tim Sale + random big name artist = monkey piss

[mikegraham6]

actually becca, i take it back, i don't think everything loeb does is garbage, i just don't think he deserves the status he has. I did like fallen son, batman hush and some of the superman/batman arcs, but i'd say they are only slightly above average, but it does feel that the majority of the stuff he's done lately has fallen very flat. not only that, but he keeps getting major works (Wolverine/Sabertooth origin; Ultimates 3) that taint my opinion of the characters.

but that is only my opinion, if you like him, more power to you i guess....hulk #1 was okay..... ;)

[six-gun]

Yes, I've been known to read comics on occasion.

Young Avengers Presents was a little preachy for me. I like the idea, but it missed the mark.


I thought the Bucky, preachy parts were good, heartwarming even. The rest was bland

[itsbecca]

Jeph Loeb, like Grant Morrison, will always have a special place in my heart for being, to date, the only writers who have made me enjoy Superman. Both have other stories I love, and both have other stories I... don't (although generally for vastly different reasons).

[mikegraham6]

Nobody better bash Grant Morrison! That dude could write the phone book and make it compelling and thought provoking IMO ;)

[itsbecca]

He's a wacky guy, but he's generally my kind of wacky.

[labor_days]

Dan Didio mentioned that some of the things Grant seeded in Seven Soldiers Of Victory will play out in Teen Titans. My nipples got hard when I read that.

[mikegraham6]

Dan Didio mentioned that some of the things Grant seeded in Seven Soldiers Of Victory will play out in Teen Titans. My nipples got hard when I read that.
DAMMIT! now i have to stay on Titans! and just when i was about to drop it too......

[dave-accampo]

I thought the Bucky, preachy parts were good, heartwarming even. The rest was bland

Interesting -- I didn't think of the Bucky bits as the preachiest. For me, the awkward parts seemed to stem from Patriot's "it's tough to be black and love America" comments. Not that I don't agree with the statement or believe that it's a good character conflict, it's just that there was something there that didn't click in the execution. As I said before, it was too aware of itself -- that's the only way I can describe it.

[kahunablair]

... Not that I don't agree with the statement or believe that it's a good character conflict, it's just that there was something there that didn't click in the execution. As I said before, it was too aware of itself -- that's the only way I can describe it.

Totally agree.
It didn't feel like a kid that honestly felt that way, it felt like a Comic written by a guy who is trying to write about a kid that honestly felt that way.

[cammyknoxville]

For all the books that came out this week, I thought it was a pretty 'meh' week. The only three that stood-out in my mind were Blue Beetle #23, Marvel Zombies 2 #4, and Ultimate Fantastic Four #50.

But I have to say, finally Wonder Woman has some good stories going on. A lot of action and Amazonian goodness in this most recent issue, now only if we could get rid of the whole super agent secret identity thing.

[six-gun]

I agree with Dave and Kahuna on Patriot, the kid's dialog was just not good.

I just read Faker and I honestly enjoyed it quite a bit, not world changing or anything but I understood it even though it was confusing, but there are a lot of great films that are confusing and we don't judge them for that. As far as I'm concerned this was a good kind of confusing. I also think that this will make a fantastic trade and I'm looking forward to self-trading it in the next couple of weeks

[dave-accampo]

I also think that this will make a fantastic trade and I'm looking forward to self-trading it in the next couple of weeks

This is good to know. I've intentionally waited for the trade on Faker, as I thought Carey's writing and Jock's art might work best in that format.

[six-gun]

I felt like the actual story of Countdown was fantastic, but that the panel to panel writing was very sub-par

[labor_days]

I'm digging Pete Woods on Countdown a lot. It's not always as polished his stuff can be, but it's nice looking and clean. I approve.

Story is getting real good. Donna Troy in the old Wonder Girl outfit is a little weird but ok. Nice to see her step it up as of late. She's been treated so poorly outside the Titans. Even Cassie has gotten a better shake at things than Donna. And she she's like the 3rd or 4th Wonder Girl. So I enjoyed that.

Red Robin was total badass. I like where they've spun Jason Todd. I wouldn't mind seeing Red Robin around the regular DCU as an ambiguous hero.

Good issue of Countdown. What are we up to, 4-5 weeks of decent quality now? Pinch me.

[labor_days]

Teen Titans #55. Huh.

Don't know what to make of this. For the first half of the issue, I honestly thought the Titans were being mind controlled or influenced somehow. Miss Martian talking to herself and everyone acting out of character led me to believe this was true. Then it ends abruptly and I was all wtf.

Did I miss an issue of TT? Because I feel like the last few issue haven't made a whole lot of sense and everything is off from a character standpoint.

Why did Cassie and SG have a fallout again? They've said much worse to each other in the past. Kicking a Kryptonia off the team so suddenly felt a bit too convenient. Tim is just like, "oh well". Then they sorta insult Blue Beetle?

Everything just felt really off.

The art was ugly as can be too.

[mikegraham6]

Just finished The Order #7 and this wins out as POW for me. Like i said before, this book keeps improving month after month and now I'm convinced it's the best thing to come out of The Initiative. The interaction between Anthem and Sub-Mariner was excellent. After last issue, i went into this one expecting a huge throwdown between The Order and Namor, but instead we got a great back and forth which showed how arogant yet ineffectual Namor is right now. We were also treated to some beautiful splash pages of the Sub-Mariner throughout history. Kitson is always on the top of his game with this book, but this issue felt like he stepped it up even more, especially with the splash pages.
Matt Fraction, who I used to think was overrated, has shown me, with this book, Iron Fist and the Spectacular Spider-Man Annual, that he is in fact an excellent writer. He has a great handle on Marvel U characters, both new and established.
Man, I should probably check out Casanova...

Are any of the iFanboys reading this book? I haven't heard them mention it since the first issue....

[conorkilpatrick]

Are any of the iFanboys reading this book? I haven't heard them mention it since the first issue....

Only Ron is.

[mikegraham6]

PLEA TO RON (i know you're out there;)): please talk about this book on the show, it needs some attention, especially now that it's on the chopping block. It's been solid and deserve some recognition

If you don't want to talk about it, can you at least tell us what you think, i'd be interested to hear your opinion

[conorkilpatrick]

PLEA TO RON (i know you're out there;)): please talk about this book on the show, it needs some attention, especially now that it's on the chopping block. It's been solid and deserve some recognition

It's not on the block, it's already been chopped. Fraction and Kitson have already moved on to other projects.

[mikegraham6]

that's true, but hey, any jump in sales (back issues, or trades) or interest can't do anything but help increase the chances of some sort of follow-up, or at least ensure the characters don't disappear with the end of the series. I would love to see some of them pop in other Marvel books

plus, if Ron hates it, fair enough, i just wish i would hear more talk about this book, even on the forums.... :(

[gungadin]

that's true, but hey, any jump in sales (back issues, or trades) or interest can't do anything but help increase the chances of some sort of follow-up, or at least ensure the characters don't disappear with the end of the series. I would love to see some of them pop in other Marvel books

plus, if Ron hates it, fair enough, i just wish i would hear more talk about this book, even on the forums.... :(

I just plain did not care enough about this book... I'm dropped it after issue four. I got issue five in the mail... So then I read it. And I got six in the mail... And I didn't care enough to read it...

[mikegraham6]

I just plain did not care enough about this book... I'm dropped it after issue four. I got issue five in the mail... So then I read it. And I got six in the mail... And I didn't care enough to read it...
understandable, i felt the same way for the first few issues. it's always hard to come into a book with entirely new characters and get the reader care about them, fraction had a big job ahead of him. The book didn't really grab until issue #4. but i love how each issue starts with a psychoanalysis of the team members, it helped build their backstory and gave weight to the threat of them being kicked off the team. Unfortunately they've only kicked off a few members and this was in the first issue, so i think it became more of a gimmick than a major plot point.
but i felt that the characters grew more and more interesting, the action was exciting (although the threats, excluding the last 2 issues, were tad boring) and the PR angle they introduced a few issues ago was right up my alley, so it's just hitting all the right buttons for me.

[dave-accampo]

that's true, but hey, any jump in sales (back issues, or trades) or interest can't do anything but help increase the chances of some sort of follow-up, or at least ensure the characters don't disappear with the end of the series. I would love to see some of them pop in other Marvel books

plus, if Ron hates it, fair enough, i just wish i would hear more talk about this book, even on the forums.... :(

Oh, I'm with you, man. It's a great book, even though I was fairly lukewarm with it to start.

Now it reminds me of some of the great, under-appreciated, short-lived DC series from the 90's. Great little books that no one seemed to read but me. Resurrection Man, Aztek, Major Bummer, Chase...books like that...

[idave]

My POW is Legion of Superheroes #38. Is anyone else reading this? I can't even tell if it's good or not. . . I just like it with all the legion stuff in the past year (and ongoing in Action Comics) I've really gotten into these charachters and the universe of 30th century DC.

[dave-accampo]

My POW is Legion of Superheroes #38. Is anyone else reading this? I can't even tell if it's good or not. . . I just like it with all the legion stuff in the past year (and ongoing in Action Comics) I've really gotten into these charachters and the universe of 30th century DC.

Jim Shooter's writing this book now, right?

Has there been a noticeable shift? Is it still the continuity that Waid/Kitson set up?

I'm woefully out of date on the latest incarnations, and even more confused by the apparent inclusion of the pre-crisis versions of the characters in Action (which I'm also not reading).

[idave]

Jim Shooter's writing this book now, right?

Has there been a noticeable shift? Is it still the continuity that Waid/Kitson set up?

I'm woefully out of date on the latest incarnations, and even more confused by the apparent inclusion of the pre-crisis versions of the characters in Action (which I'm also not reading).

Shooter is writing now. I like the way he seems to have them down as a team really well. It reminds me of good X-men writers almost.

I don't know if there has been a noticeable shift, I started out on issue #37.

The legion showing up in Action and JLA seem to be an alternate universe version of the legion in a world where debate over who superman was has become similar to Holy Wars over Jesus and other real world religious figures (except on a more extreme scale) And the Legion that has their own book is the official Legion of what the main Earth is going to be in 1000 years. Or at least thats how it seems to me.

[labor_days]

Haven't read this week's Legion yet. But Shooter's return has been fantatsic. He gets the Legion as no other writer. It's a fun and funny sci-fi romp.

I'm not just saying that as a Legion fanboy either. Jim "Golden Boy" Shooter still got that Legion magic.

[gungadin]

understandable, i felt the same way for the first few issues. it's always hard to come into a book with entirely new characters and get the reader care about them, fraction had a big job ahead of him. The book didn't really grab until issue #4. but i love how each issue starts with a psychoanalysis of the team members, it helped build their backstory and gave weight to the threat of them being kicked off the team. Unfortunately they've only kicked off a few members and this was in the first issue, so i think it became more of a gimmick than a major plot point.
but i felt that the characters grew more and more interesting, the action was exciting (although the threats, excluding the last 2 issues, were tad boring) and the PR angle they introduced a few issues ago was right up my alley, so it's just hitting all the right buttons for me.

Yeah. I get that. And it was intriguing... But the thing (and this is nitpicky) that threw me off about the opening interview things was the first two pages... I'm so used to Bendis and following two pages straight across, it was tricky to figure out what came after what...

That, and I know I'm the only person who thinks so, but I just could not for the life of me handle Kitson's art. I don't know why... But it just wasn't for me...

Other than that... I dunno. I get what Fraction was trying to do, but it was really hard (like you said) to get into the characters, who felt superficial to me (but then again, it's REALLY hard to please me with new characters).

Although, that said, I'm really sorry to hear it got cancelled. Because I have heard pretty much only good things about it (just not from my own mouth).

[zombox]

Quick picks this week...

Astonishing X-Men. I wish Whedon would write this series for another five years. Art is great, characters are great, good sense of stakes. Mostly filled with action, but you get the real twist here.

Young Avengers presents Patriot. I liked this book when it started back three or so years ago, which is saying a lot since I generally hate 'young heroes' themes. This book is a sincere look at the world through Patriot's eyes with heavy emphasis on the ethnic injustice he feels all too keenly. Also is a sort of testimonial to Captain America and his importance as a symbol to the free world.

Dynamo 5 was a decent book, using this issue to set up plots that will hopefully unfold over the next 4 or 5 issues. Art is okay, but I just find the concept and the characters engaging.

The end of Messiah Complex was decent... I hope that the new paradigm sticks and isn't rebotted in two years again. Xavier needs to be dead. For realz, in the vernacular. The thing I hope sticks the most is cott's decision to move on, I saw it as a deliberate and final choice to be with Emma. Both in dialogue and vision. She asks is she should be worried, and he reassures her. Whether other writers bollocks that up later or not, I feel like Brubaker is saying Jean-Scott is over. He has chosen Emma.

[six-gun]

I think that the reason I disliked Countdown was that they did a poor imitation of my favorite scene in fiction ever

[gungadin]

I'll bite. What scene?

[six-gun]

I'll bite. What scene?

Aragorn returning to the Pelanore fields to win the battle (I liked the book's version better)

[humphrey-lee]

Yay! I still like LOSH! I think I'm finally back into double digits on DCU books I buy now thanks to this thing. Go Jim Shooter.

[humphrey-lee]

PLEA TO RON (i know you're out there;)): please talk about this book on the show, it needs some attention, especially now that it's on the chopping block. It's been solid and deserve some recognition

If you don't want to talk about it, can you at least tell us what you think, i'd be interested to hear your opinion

Yeah dude, the book is gone already, and honestly, all the press in the world wasn't going to save it. I even reviewed it three straight months for the column at AICN, no one gave a shit. Everyone just wanted to keep bitching about Spider-Man. Books like THE ORDER from Marvel or CHECKMATE from DC are just doomed for failure. Even though they take place in the large landscape of those universes, they don't fit into the order or buying habits of those people that primarily buy stuff just from those two companies. It's sad but it's true. Hell, the only reason CHECKMATE has lasted as long as it has is Rucka's pull with the company. As soon as he decides he doesn't want to write that book anymore it'll be dead on the spot...

[six-gun]

Cassaday's art was astounding, however I just didn't quite understand what was going on because It's been over a year since the first issue of the arc and they're calling back to plot points that have lasted since the run started. It's frustrating.

Crime Bible was once again great, but I feel that it's a bit obtuse at times. I understood everything that happened, but I had to read through it twice. I think that that's pretty cool that we can have mainstream comics that are at times so complex plot-wise.

Also, did the Crime Bible art give anyone else a Cliff Chiang vibe? (albeit less colorful)

It was a pretty mediocre week for me as well, I still have an online order with last week's ASM coming in the mail so that I can read this week's, but so far I've got to say that Crime Bible gets my POW.

[dave-accampo]

OK, now that I've actually READ the Order #7, I'm even more depressed that this book is gone. This issue continues the streak.

Actually, this issue was like Fraction writing a West Wing episode with Marvel characters. It made me think: give this dude some kind of political book set in the MU...I'd read that.


Loving Iron Man #25, too. Don't think I've seen anyone mention it here. The Knaufs have now gotten far enough from Civil War that they're just getting to DO some stuff with Iron Man. But they're using everything they've been given: Extremis, Maya Hansen, SHIELD, etc. And within that context, they're crafting an interesting political thriller.

I love the bits where Doc Samson and Tony realize that Tony's Extremis enhancements are making him see ghosts because he's processing information that he can't handle -- and it's manifesting as hallucinations. Good stuff.

[jimski]

Astonishing X-Men. I wish Whedon would write this series for another five years. So, another four issues then?

zing!

Seriously, though, I agree.

[labor_days]

Wonder Woman and Crime Bible were both excellent.

Wonder Woman would be my POW. It was just great. Simone exploring what/how a baby would change a warrior society of infertile women is something most shied away from in the past. Giving the impression Diana's birth was no big deal for the Amazons. Think Simone has the right of it in that such a thing (for the Queen only, no less) would be fairly divisive within such a civilization. Art was great too.

Crime Bible was the strongest of the series so far. Nice to see the Vic Sage roots showing a bit. I wasn't confused by the plot at all. Very well paced book. I want The Question monthly.

[valoharth]

Got done reading Messiah Complexes and I didn't realize it was that time of year again, Prof is dead and the X-men disband. This Crossover or event was about 3 issues too long maybe even 4, we didn't need the New Xmen in it. I have to say though that Peter David's X-factor will actually benefits from this with new stories that will be interesting.

And now a little something about Astonishing, WTF? Really, you're going to end it like that, what a let down. I was prepared to have 24 be the last issue for this so I was expecting closure but noooooo, I screamed in my car after I finished it up, I even flipped back through it to see if I missed something. A comic has never made me be so vocal like that. However if Giant Size Astonishing isn’t the end of this story I think I will cry.

[dave-accampo]

Wonder Woman and Crime Bible were both excellent.

Wonder Woman would be my POW. It was just great. Simone exploring what/how a baby would change a warrior society of infertile women is something most shied away from in the past. Giving the impression Diana's birth was no big deal for the Amazons. Think Simone has the right of it in that such a thing (for the Queen only, no less) would be fairly divisive within such a civilization. Art was great too.

Crime Bible was the strongest of the series so far. Nice to see the Vic Sage roots showing a bit. I wasn't confused by the plot at all. Very well paced book. I want The Question monthly.

I second the motion for a Question monthly -- that's for damn sure.

I thought Wonder Woman was pretty good, but it definitely wouldn't have been my POW (I would probably go with Hellblazer). I love the stuff with Hippolyta and the Circle, but I'm not as crazy about WW's army of talking apes. And the secret agent stuff just seems shoehorned in there at this point. I suspect Simone will get rid of that before too long.

Also: not crazy about the art change halfway through the ish. Ron Randall's not bad, but it suffers next to the Dodsons art.

[mikegraham6]

Labor, are you still reading The Order, I can't remember if you said you had dropped it or not.
If you read it, what did you think?

[labor_days]

I switched to trades after issue #3 or #4 of The Order. Can't recall. Dropped in issues but not for lack of quality. I really enjoyed The Order and thought Fraction was really hitting on something interesting within superhero funny books.

Basically, I'm to blame for it being canceled. You can hate me Mike if it makes you feel better.