'Y: The Last Man #60' [Archive]

mikegraham6

01-30-2008, 08:34 PM

this issue's title made me smile, what great way to end the series. I thought it was really heartfelt and wrapped everything up nicely. I'm also REALLY glad it didn't go in the direction i thought it was going from the images on the title.

I didn't expect everything to go back to normal at the end but it was nice to see montage showing that in fact life does go on.
What did everyone think of the sci-fi element that was brought in? I thought it made sense since it's been a part of the series from the very beginning. You can tell BKV had this ending in mind from the outset, but if he was going to make cloning such a large part of the ending i just wish he would have touched upon it more in the past 60 issues (I can only really recall 2 arcs that dealt with it)

Other than that minor complaint, i absolutely LOVED it. It was an excellent conclusion

A+

Alas poor Yorick, I knew him well.... and I'll miss him:(

s1lentslayer

01-30-2008, 08:43 PM

Just finished it and it's been so long since I've had Y on the brain that I apparently forgot a lot so I'm going to have to re-read the last few issues as well. I thought it was a good ending and I was sad to see death of Ampersand in there:(

Maybe someone can summarize what happened to help me "remember" who each of these people were again heh.

labor_days

01-30-2008, 09:09 PM

dave-accampo

01-30-2008, 09:31 PM

Got to the scene where Yorick is walking through the snow. When he gave Ampersand the grape, - I completely lost my shit.

The lump in the throat. The misty eyes. Very emotional and satisfying ending.

But jeez, that was a hard read...

Totally with you, man. The full page with the tree...? Fuuuuuuuck. I shed a tear.

It was, as you guys are saying, a totally emotionally satisfying conclusion.

Nicely done.

labor_days

01-30-2008, 09:44 PM

Should say the ending isn't a total downer.

I thought it really inspiring and wonderful.

Especially, the strightjacket flying off on the final page.

Life goes on and Yorick is still out there, somewhere.

dave-accampo

01-30-2008, 10:03 PM

Should say the ending isn't a total downer.

Good point. Even though we hit on a number of tragic points, I didn't feel it was depressing by any means. It felt full of life to me, honestly. maybe because everything was so placid in the future, and old man Yorick just seems sorta raw and colorful by comparison.

labor_days

01-30-2008, 10:04 PM

Hero + Beth.

Give me your thoughts.

dave-accampo

01-30-2008, 10:12 PM

Hero + Beth.

Give me your thoughts.

Hmmm....good question. I feel there's a lot unspoken about that. It's not as if the series was heading that direction and tied it up (at least, I didn't see it that way). What we did see in the series was Hero's growth as a person. Thus, for she and Beth to find each other was a solid ending to her arc. She's at peace.

Beth's character is less clear (and she wasn't clear throughout the series), so I can't make much out of her side of it.

Probably most importantly was the feeling that it creates with Yorick. He couldn't stay to talk to Beth, but he wanted to talk to Hero. That spoke volumes about his relationship with each of them. He had come to terms with Hero, but he apparently still couldn't really see Beth. And we don't know exactly why. The love of his life is obviously 355, but he still had something with Beth. She (or his memory of her) kept him going for most of the series, so I'd imagine she means more to him than either of them could really handle.

Edited to fix pronoun problems...

labor_days

01-30-2008, 10:27 PM

Probably most importantly was the feeling that it creates with Yorick. He couldn't stay to talk to Beth, but he wanted to talk to Hero. That spoke volumes about his relationship with each of them. He had come to terms with Hero, but he apparently still couldn't really see Beth. And we don't know exactly why. The love of his life is obviously 355, but he still had something with Beth. She (or his memory of her) kept him going for most of the series, so I'd imagine he means more to her than either of them could really handle.
This. Yeah. Totally.

Part of it is being happy for where Hero is at that point. Her journey/quest is fulfilled. For a long time she was searching for something. By the end there she's pretty happy with where she's at and by extension we are as well.

Yorick. Dude is still looking. And I got the idea that seeing Beth represented the part of his life that is over. Was she ever really what kept him going? I dunno.

aaron-j-scott

01-30-2008, 10:36 PM

I haven't read a single ish of Y, but the only comment I have to make is that BKV's timing is spectacular – the final issue of a monolithic story comes out the day before the new season of another monolithic story right when America is hungry for new TV.

Well played, sir. Well played indeed.

labor_days

01-30-2008, 10:39 PM

Also, Pia drew her ass off on this series. Way to fucking go.

Great, great work. I loved it.

I feel emotional right now. Stop judging me, Kahuna.

gungadin

01-30-2008, 10:47 PM

I was reading the issue, and while it was slightly confusing at the beginning, I felt that it was definitely awesome. Loved the flashbacks, love that page that says "sixty years from now" and then the image of Paris in the future that's just... beautiful and advanced and wonderful...

The death of Allison Mann didn't really get me, but when Yorick talked about the death of Ampersand and then he died... I just started crying. I didn't realize nearly how much I loved him. And the final page send off and the second to last and third to last pages saying that the human race will go on?

Beautiful. Easily one of the best issues I've read in... so so long... And dammit, I love Brian K. Vaughan. That was just... so so good...

dave-accampo

01-30-2008, 10:47 PM

Yorick. Dude is still looking. And I got the idea that seeing Beth represented the part of his life that is over. Was she ever really what kept him going? I dunno.

Yeah, I like that. I think what I was saying before was that it was the IDEA of Beth that kept him going...at least at the beginning. But after his journey was over, after he realized his feelings for 355, there's no way the real Beth could be reconciled with his IDEA of Beth. And, like you said, this idea of Beth wasn't something that he really needed any longer.

labor_days

01-30-2008, 10:54 PM

Yeah, I like that. I think what I was saying before was that it was the IDEA of Beth that kept him going...at least at the beginning. But after his journey was over, after he realized his feelings for 355, there's no way the real Beth could be reconciled with his IDEA of Beth. And, like you said, this idea of Beth wasn't something that he really needed any longer.
That's exactly what I wanted to say. I just don't have the words for it, Dave.

Yorick built Beth up to be this impossible thing. Whatever Yorick transposed to her, as an idea, was no longer inherent to Beth the person. I thought it was pretty noble of Yorick to realize how unfair that is to Beth (now). It's sorta like stepping aside even though you love someone because you know someone else is better for them.

As painful as that may be.

(I am not crying. Stop judging me, Dave.)

fred

01-30-2008, 11:31 PM

Totally with you, man. The full page with the tree...? Fuuuuuuuck. I shed a tear.

It was, as you guys are saying, a totally emotionally satisfying conclusion.

Nicely done.

I'm with you. I started getting upset when he gave Amp the grape. I completely lost it, crying on my porch in the cold, when I saw the tree. He lived to a point where he lost the two most important figures in his life, and so young.

ijustfloat

01-31-2008, 01:32 AM

Stumbled across this while looking around for some good Y #60 reviews:
http://www.ilovebonnie.net/2008/01/30/alas-we-knew-him-well-a-review-of-y-the-last-man-60/

Got some great images from the comic of some of the more memorable scenes.

SPOILER ALERT

kahunablair

01-31-2008, 01:36 AM

That was one of the more note-perfect endings.
I wish I could get that final page framed. Brilliant!

paper

01-31-2008, 01:49 AM

I was happy with it. Looking forward to reading the series over again from start to finish.

I'm not gonna lie. I didn't like the beginning. I like the concept of it, the the story structure. But the exposition was a little clumsy. Especially the girl and Yorick XVII. "As you know, we're all clones." But once we started moving into flashbacks, I really enjoyed it. Love the last page.

He made you guys cry using a grape. BKV is a genius.

I love the idea of the Dr. Men. All using hand gestures and, even together, not being able to develop the right formula.

#1 artist on my sketch wishlist = Pia Guerra

dave-accampo

01-31-2008, 05:42 AM

I'm not gonna lie. I didn't like the beginning. I like the concept of it, the the story structure.

I'll admit, I was a little concerned at the beginning. But that was really just swept away as the story got rolling. I allowed it as necessary exposition to get you into the piece.

mikegraham6

01-31-2008, 11:27 AM

so who was the "she" Yorick referred to when he was talking to his younger clone? i think i missed that part....

paper

01-31-2008, 11:30 AM

so who was the "she" Yorick referred to when he was talking to his younger clone? i think i missed that part....

What scene?

mikegraham6

01-31-2008, 11:32 AM

i think it was about halfway through, i can't remeber what it was in reference to, but the younger Yorick pointed it out as strange, i think i twas right before the Dr. Men flashback. At the time, i assumed Yorick was just going a little nutty and had started talking to 355's ghost or something

paper

01-31-2008, 11:44 AM

The "Like I told her when I first met her, Francais is for chauvinists?" "Wait, told who?" exchange?

Yeah, I'm not sure either. He's not crazy, he's just remembering Beth, 355, or the Doc.

mikegraham6

01-31-2008, 11:58 AM

i think that was it

euchre0

01-31-2008, 03:18 PM

It was the first book I read and my favorite. Wholly satisfying. I have one question, though: was the jacket in the last page in the air because he threw it up in the air or what? I know it doesn't really matter and it doesn't affect my love of the issue, but the second time I read it, I thought "wait..."

any ideas? or does it just symbolize his freedom?

mikegraham6

01-31-2008, 03:36 PM

man, this is BKV's WEEK! i forgot, but Lost also starts tonight.
It's felt like he kinda fell of the radar these past couple of months, but this week prepelled him back into my spotlight!
Congrats to the dude

s1lentslayer

01-31-2008, 03:39 PM

Well it formed the shape of a "Y" plus he was an escape artist.

euchre0

01-31-2008, 05:08 PM

haha. Yeah, I know that. I think it was a great last page. It was really nice to have the last page be a straight jacket when the first time we met Yorick he was in one. But why is the jacket up in the air? Did old man Yorick throw it up in the air like he graduated...was it caught in a powerful updraft?

In no way did this affect how much I liked the book and series, it was just something that occurred to me upon rereading and thanks to the internet, I can ask this question with minimal effort.

dave-accampo

01-31-2008, 05:38 PM

Well it formed the shape of a "Y" plus he was an escape artist.

Oh man...I didn't even catch the "Y" shape! Damn!

mikegraham6

01-31-2008, 06:24 PM

Oh man...I didn't even catch the "Y" shape! Damn!
I didn't realize it either, or the fact that it was bookended with the introduction of Yorick in issue one (i had forgotten he was in a straightjacket in that issue)

dave-accampo

01-31-2008, 06:30 PM

I didn't realize it either, or the fact that it was bookended with the introduction of Yorick in issue one (i had forgotten he was in a straightjacket in that issue)

you're right! huh. My respect grows...

labor_days

01-31-2008, 06:32 PM

And, the first time we see Yorick in the series he was learning how to get out of a straitjacket. He first called Beth to propose while upside down in the jacket. Then all the men died.

Yorick escaping at the end there; out of the jacket, out of palace, had some symbolic meaning.

dave-accampo

01-31-2008, 06:40 PM

Yorick escaping at the end there; out of the jacket, out of palace, had some symbolic meaning.

Oh yeah -- I got the symbolism, and I thought it was great. I just hadn't realized all of the little nuances that he pulled together...like our first intro to Yorick was in the straitjacket and the "Y" shape of it on the last page.

The fact that the pages contain such attention to detail is really, really cool.

gungadin

01-31-2008, 07:00 PM

I would also like to point out that when I first saw the straightjacket flying open like that I thought "bird!" which is big time symbolist goodness...

labor_days

01-31-2008, 07:11 PM

It really was a beautifully written issue.

Let me just say again, Pia Guerra did amazing work not only on this issue but on the series as a whole.

Loved the subtle way Yorick got older in the flashbacks. Goddamn, that's good comics.

jimlivesay

01-31-2008, 07:17 PM

Words can't express how much I hated the ending of this series. By "ending" I mean issues 59 - 60.

After 58 issues of this book, there were two characters I really cared about-- and in the last 2 issues one is killed and the other is shown to thereafter lead a long miserable life-- to have lived "miserably ever after" if you will.

I have no idea why he chose to kill 355, who was by far my favorite part of this series, other than say shock value or the mere fact that this was the end of the series. But after killing her, he could have just ended the series for me. But no, Vaughan then takes it one step further and does this last issue showing the long sad life of Y after her death.

I must say that in general I do hate these "flash forward" endings to books/movies/tv series, where we jump ahead a long period of time and are told a condensed version of "what happens next." I much prefer a series ending which allows me to imagine the characters are still out there living their lives.

And I'm not ashamed to say that I would have preferred the ending to a series like this-- which was really good through 58 issues-- to have either been HAPPY, or at least so AMBIGUOUS that I could fill in my own happy ending, while others could fill in their own preferred endings. An example of the former would be the terrific (to me) ending of Preacher. An example of the latter would be the ending of The Sopranos.

But to have this series that I loved for 58 issues end in the way it did-- my favorite character getting killed, and then flashing ahead to the title character in his old age and showing these sad moments from his long life without her-- I completely hated it.

I've read numerous people talking about how they "welled up" with this issue, often referring specifically to Ampersand's death. Truthfully, I couldn't give two s**ts about that monkey by that point. After 355 had died, I really didn't care about the monkey.

I've also seen numerous people praising how the books "wrapped up so many loose ends." Well, first, I should hope it did-- it was planned to be a 60 issue series for a long time (as long as I can remember), so you would think he would and could wrap up all the loose ends. But more importantly, there's a difference between wrapping up loose ends and concluding the story in a way that is satisfying. And for me, the book might have done the former, but came nowhere close to doing the latter.

Finally, I have seen many people praising the "execution" of the last issue. I agree that Vaughan "executed" the issue well-- his craft is undeniable, it's part of why I loved issues 1 - 58. But again, he was executing a vision for the ending of the story that to me was just awful.

For me as for so many others, this was a book that I would often advise non-comic readers to read. I even got my wife hooked on it. But with that ending in place, I don't know that I can recommend it to friends anymore. My wife, an African American woman and massive 355 fan, came downstairs after reading issues #55 - 60 last night, completing the series, and all but threw the book at me in disgust. She glared at me for a good 30 seconds, without saying a word. Finally, she angrily told me that, "if you knew that's how it ended you should have told me not to even read it." As much as I hated the ending, she hated it even more. I don't see me being able to get her to read a similar series-- or maybe any comics-- any time soon.

kahunablair

01-31-2008, 07:36 PM

And I'm not ashamed to say that I would have preferred the ending to a series like this-- which was really good through 58 issues-- to have either been HAPPY, or at least so AMBIGUOUS that I could fill in my own happy ending, while others could fill in their own preferred endings. An example of the former would be the terrific (to me) ending of Preacher. An example of the latter would be the ending of The Sopranos.

Stinks that you didn't like it Jim. To each their own!

I just wanted to ask, what about this series made you think it was going to be a Happy ending? The entire thing is routed in reality, and sadly that never really ends Happy.
What I took from it is, sure reality sucks, but he was still happy to be free in the end. It wasn't so much, "Look at how horrible his life was", it was "Look at how he dealt with his horrible life."

gungadin

01-31-2008, 07:36 PM

I really would not like to argue about this... But the ending of the series is ambiguous in its own way.

That said, I appreciate your love for 355. I don't think any of us didn't love 355, and her death was shocking, but to go in and end it with her death makes the story about her, when BKV has said from the very beginning that this is a story about Yorick and his becoming a man. The death of 355 was a powerful moment and Yorick spends the rest of his life thinking about it. He never really gets her off his mind...

But if I may ask, what would have been an ideal ending if you had to fill out the last two issues. Would you have done it differently in any way?

Edit: Damn you Blair!!!

kahunablair

01-31-2008, 07:38 PM

Edit: Damn you Blair!!!

Haha 30 seconds faster!

jimlivesay

01-31-2008, 07:51 PM

I really would not like to argue about this... But the ending of the series is ambiguous in its own way.

Yes, I suppose- whether he killed himself or escaped. But by that point. Vaughan had killed off 355, jumped ahead 60 years or whatever it was, and had shown the "lowlights" in-between-- so I wasn't too conerned with whether ol' miserable Y escaped or died at the end.

I don't think any of us didn't love 355, and her death was shocking, but to go in and end it with her death makes the story about her

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply or state that the book should've ended upon her death. I didn't want to see her die at all, any more that I would've wanted to see Tulip or Jessee die at the end of Preacher.

But if I may ask, what would have been an ideal ending if you had to fill out the last two issues. Would you have done it differently in any way?

That's a good question, I'd really have to think about what kind of ending I would have written. Not that anybody would ever pay me to write anything. Maybe I'll just write my own little ending, please perhaps only to me, and make believe in my head that THAT is how the book ended.

euchre0

01-31-2008, 07:57 PM

So your main problem is that 355 was killed?

I can understand that and personally would have liked it if she didn't die, but just to articulate it, is that the problem with the ending of the series?

dave-accampo

01-31-2008, 07:59 PM

Just for the record...for me, it wasn't Ampersand who caused me to well up. That was sad, but it was the TREE on the next page, with 355 carved into it, that got me.

This is a tragedy, plain and simple. It was a love story where Yorick's true love was robbed from him right as he realized who it was that he loved. There's no denying that. And if you wanted a happily ever after ending, I can totally see how this wouldn't appeal.

But we do lose the people we love. And for me, this was bittersweet. It was that classic "better to have loved and lost" theme. Yorick's love for 355 shines through all these final pages. The fact that he couldn't truly be with anyone but her speaks volumes. The fact that she died doesn't diminish the emotion that's there. And that's a good thing.

Is it sad? Yeah. It's also messy and complicated and it feels like life to me. So for me, that was really the triumph of the series.

That's why I really enjoyed it, anyway.

jimlivesay

01-31-2008, 08:06 PM

Stinks that you didn't like it Jim. To each their own!

Absolutely, brother. We don't have to agree on everything-- that would be boring!!

[/QUOTE] I just wanted to ask, what about this series made you think it was going to be a Happy ending? The entire thing is routed in reality, and sadly that never really ends Happy. [/QUOTE]

Well, if what you mean by reality "never really ends Happy" is that we all die in the end, then yes, reality never really ends happily. But for the better part of the series this romance/connection between Yorick and 355 had been foreshadowed, and then about 5 seconds after he finally realizes (long after the reader did) that 355 is the woman for him, she's killed. That's a writer's choice, it wasn't required to "keep it real." People can find happiness with each other, even in the middle of an otherwise rotten existence, and they can be hapy with each other sometimes for a long time-- even though it will obviously end in death.

Again, I use the example of Preacher. All kinds of f***ed up, violent, depraved stuff happened to and around the three central characters in that story. One of the three central characters even did some fairly bad things. Theirs was by no means a "happy" world to live in. But, Ennis ended the series on a completely hopeful, positive note-- by following 2 of the characters as they ride off into the sunset, literally.

This didn't mean that the characters' world was suddenly changed, or that their lives would be forever perfect thereafter. Their story would continue, and eventually bad things would happen again. Eventually both of them would die. They probably would not die at the same time, which means there would be a period when one was dead and the other was living alone. But as I reader I didn't need to be shown that. I much preferred to have those characters leave my life on the note they did, than to be shown their eventual deaths.

jimlivesay

01-31-2008, 08:16 PM

So your main problem is that 355 was killed?

I can understand that and personally would have liked it if she didn't die, but just to articulate it, is that the problem with the ending of the series?

That, plus I would rather not have learned about Yorick's life without her-- see my last post...

dave-accampo

01-31-2008, 08:21 PM

That's a writer's choice, it wasn't required to "keep it real." People can find happiness with each other, even in the middle of an otherwise rotten existence, and they can be hapy with each other sometimes for a long time-- even though it will obviously end in death. rs leave my life on the note they did, than to be shown their eventual deaths.

Obviously, we all have preferences in what we want from our fiction, etc., so I'm not trying to argue anything here, but I liked this point that you made.

Yes, it was a choice, but honestly...? I think it was the right choice to "end" the story. Stories aren't like real life, and writer's make dramatic choices to create the "sense" of a story ending (even though the only true ending is that everyone dies eventually). So in this case, the death of 355 as Yorick realized his feelings, puts a tragic cap on his story and allows Vaughan to move from that moment from that 'story', and then use the final issue to put it all in perspective. Thus, despite the fact that she's dead, issue #60 really is a love letter in the truest sense. The fact that he can only look BACK on it is irrelevant for the emotion itself.

That's really what worked for me. Not saying it's the only choice, but I thought it was a good choice to help create a truly emotional conclusion for THIS particular story.

labor_days

01-31-2008, 09:17 PM

The ending of Y was totally hopeful and positive.

People figured out how to cope with a tragedy, advances in science were made, society restructured itself, families went on.

Characters central to the story grew and found their rightful place in the world. Finding happiness in their own respective ways.

Yorick & Amp saved the human race and Yorick went on with his life's adventure. He escaped the "jacket", physically and emotionally.

People died, of course. But that is part of life. It continues despite this.

What was pessimistic and/or negative about the ending?

muady

01-31-2008, 09:58 PM

Yea, I don't think "miserably ever after" is quite an accurate reading of the ending. I'm mean, I don't think we're supposed to understand that Yorick was miserable or suicidal at all as an 86 year old man. We get flashbacks to those he holds dear dying around him, but his demeanor in the non-flashback pages suggest that he's simply wised by experience and could deal with it all in way that he couldn't before issue 59.

The ending of Y was happy. Not happy in the sense that Yorick, and the readers, got what they wanted, but in the sense that Yorick conquered his trauma.

I think the metaphor is in the straight-jacket. He wears it as he recounts all the unhappy memories: his loss of Beth, the deaths of Dr. Mann and Ampersand. But after he escapes out the window, the final memory we have is a happy one: one that embodies everything he cherish about his relationship with 355. And the final page tells us what we should have realized all along(some of us probably did): Yorick was never really confined by the straight jacket(or his past trauma, which is what I'd argue it symbolizes) at all.

gungadin

01-31-2008, 11:37 PM

dave-accampo

02-01-2008, 12:12 AM

Definitely. And all that ties back to the original claim from BKV that Y is a story about Yorick growing up and becoming a man.

Oh and Jim... Spoiler alert for Preacher? I haven't read it yet!

Well, you guys get what Jim's saying, though. I don't think he's saying the ending's all negative, he's saying that he can't really enjoy the ending because Yorick doesn't get a chance to live a life with the girl he loves. He's not saying he doesn't get all the stuff about Yorick growing up or the fact that Yorick saves the future, etc. He's simply saying that he would have loved the ending if Yorick got a little bit of happiness, too.

I can understand that.

I personally loved it for what it was. I love bittersweet endings, though.

gungadin

02-01-2008, 12:16 AM

Yeah. I get that. I just get sidetracked easy.

The thing I love about the ending is that I didn't feel sad that it ended. I hit that last panel and it was just PERFECT. I read that and was like, "That's the ending, and a hell of an ending that was." I didn't feel 355 was disregarded in any way, and if you listen to the interviews and look at that last flashback there's this sense that Yorick never really left her, and while his life might have been tragic and sad, his "ending" was nothing short of beautiful and uplifting...

dave-accampo

02-01-2008, 12:21 AM

I didn't feel 355 was disregarded in any way, and if you listen to the interviews and look at that last flashback there's this sense that Yorick never really left her, and while his life might have been tragic and sad, his "ending" was nothing short of beautiful and uplifting...

That's the key, and I'm RIGHT there with you. Totally agree.

labor_days

02-01-2008, 12:25 AM

This is a good thread.

dave-accampo

02-01-2008, 12:27 AM

This is a good thread.

Seriously -- really good discussion. A testament to series, too.

muady

02-01-2008, 02:03 AM

Well, you guys get what Jim's saying, though. I don't think he's saying the ending's all negative,

Well, when he does characterize the ending as "miserably ever after". . .

he's saying that he can't really enjoy the ending because Yorick doesn't get a chance to live a life with the girl he loves. He's not saying he doesn't get all the stuff about Yorick growing up or the fact that Yorick saves the future, etc. He's simply saying that he would have loved the ending if Yorick got a little bit of happiness, too.

But. . .what we're saying is that Yorick does get a little bit of happiness. . .well, it's what I'm saying a least. ;)

Definitely. And all that ties back to the original claim from BKV that Y is a story about Yorick growing up and becoming a man.

I would love to latch on to what Brian K. Vaughan says about the point of the story himself, but I've recently gotten in some trouble with the intentional fallacy recently. It's nice, though, to hear that.

ashgotti

02-01-2008, 02:34 AM

Yes, I suppose- whether he killed himself or escaped. But by that point. Vaughan had killed off 355, jumped ahead 60 years or whatever it was, and had shown the "lowlights" in-between-- so I wasn't too conerned with whether ol' miserable Y escaped or died at the end.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply or state that the book should've ended upon her death. I didn't want to see her die at all, any more that I would've wanted to see Tulip or Jessee die at the end of Preacher.

That's a good question, I'd really have to think about what kind of ending I would have written. Not that anybody would ever pay me to write anything. Maybe I'll just write my own little ending, please perhaps only to me, and make believe in my head that THAT is how the book ended.

Damnit kid! you just ruined the end of Preacher for me. Thanks.

labor_days

02-01-2008, 02:40 AM

There has got to be a cut off point for spoilers.

Sure, some people have yet to read Moby Dick, see The Godfather or read Preacher but come on.

It's been years. Years!

muady

02-01-2008, 02:46 AM

This is your argument, yes?:
http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2005/20051205l.jpg

;)
I kind of applauded Penny Arcade for that comic when they published it. I was once yelled at for "spoiling" War of the Worlds. :rolleyes:

But in regards to Preacher. . .I would be mad if that was spoiled to me. I haven't read it, either. . .

Its not like the knowledge about the plot of Preacher has achieved the level of public domain like certain classics.

ashgotti

02-01-2008, 02:55 AM

There has got to be a cut off point for spoilers.

Sure, some people have yet to read Moby Dick, see The Godfather or read Preachers but come on.

It's been years. Years!

Maybe but I picked up since iFanboy did the episode on it, which was recent. Its a long one.

labor_days

02-01-2008, 02:57 AM

I kind of applauded Penny Arcade for that comic when they published it. I was once yelled at for "spoiling" War of the Worlds.

But in regards to Preacher. . .I would be mad if that was spoiled to me. I haven't read it, either. . .

Its not like the knowledge about the plot of Preacher has achieved the level of public domain like certain classics.Yep. That's what I'm saying.

It's really hard to talk about film or books without spoiling. That Preacher isn't as well known as King Kong is a function of Preacher being a comic book.

But If I were making a point about film and used the ending of King Kong to speak to that, I think that's more than fair. So too if we were talking of comics and Preacher came up.

They're both milestone works within their respective mediums. Important enough that they can, should and will come up in conversation.

Importance + enough time = fair game.

gungadin

02-01-2008, 03:07 AM

There has got to be a cut off point for spoilers.

Sure, some people have yet to read Moby Dick, see The Godfather or read Preacher but come on.

It's been years. Years!

Sorry to complain dude, but I just really wanted to get into Preacher within the past two months and I haven't had an opportunity to read it yet. We don't spoil the endings of self-contained stories randomly.

Sorry to sound all snotty, but end-spoiling should still come with just a "spoiler" at the very least... Not everyone has read everything.

labor_days

02-01-2008, 03:18 AM

I understand. Not like I haven't been spoiled myself.

Such is the downside of prioritizing certain things over others. Not everyone has seen every film.

Yet someone made the choice to see I Know What You Did Last Summer over The Godfather. It's been too long and it's too important a milestone for people to get huffy when somebody mentions Sunny dies in the film.

Ce est la vie.

muady

02-01-2008, 03:20 AM

Well thats the thing, Preacher itself is notorious, but I'm not sure if the plot of Preacher has achieved an equivalent level of notoriety in the public consciousness in even the comic-book reading public. It's not like its the death of Gwen Stacy or anything.

On a certain level, I totally agree with you. But in the case of Preacher, I'm not so sure I think so. Moby Dick, King Kong, War of the Worlds: these are texts that have decades of being pastiched and parodied under their belt; Preacher, not at all.

labor_days

02-01-2008, 03:27 AM

I get why one would be upset about an ending spoiler (I try not to give them out). But yeah, it's been years. It's an artistic milstone within the medium. It's completely valid as a point of discussion.

No need to jump down the guy's throat for drawing a comparison between Y and Preacher's ending and the long journey characters undertook in those stories. It's a valid contrast between both series and spoke to the point he was trying to make.

Priorities. Choice. Pros. Cons.

Such is life.

gungadin

02-01-2008, 03:28 AM

Yet someone made the choice to see I Know What You Did Last Summer over The Godfather.

Oh that alone is just sad...

But the thing is, I love it how things can go relatively unspoiled and there's a sense of respect for it, like Watchmen. The ending NEVER comes up in that piece... And I like how there's always a "Have you read Watchmen?" before you just go in and say "That's the ending!" You know?

But this is starting to feel like it's getting past the point... I loved this issue, I'm still happy it ended so well...

jaflanagan

02-01-2008, 06:21 AM

Can I just say that that wasn't a spoiler for Preacher? We said in the show that the hero rides off into the sunset. We showed you the panel. Does that really have anything to do with the end of the book? No.

He didn't ruin anything about that story, so don't worry about it.

gungadin

02-01-2008, 06:31 AM

kwok_talk

02-01-2008, 12:45 PM

Wait, this is the Y thread, right? ;)

I decided to read the last issue (though I haven't read whatever issues are going to be in this last trade). It's funny cause I thought I'd be all prepared and what not about the Ampersand scene, swearing it wouldn't affect me since I knew what was going to happen. Goodness, I literally had to stop reading at that point and take a break. My allergies must have been acting up at that moment, getting me all misty eyed.

jaflanagan

02-01-2008, 01:55 PM

Never has a grape been so poignant.

mikegraham6

02-01-2008, 03:40 PM

It's not like its the death of Gwen Stacy or anything.

Wait, WAIT! Gwen Stacy DIES?!?!?!?!? Thanks a lot guys, I haven't even finished my Spider-Man Omnibus yet!

jaflanagan

02-01-2008, 03:45 PM

Wait, WAIT! Gwen Stacy DIES?!?!?!?!? Thanks a lot guys, I haven't even finished my Spider-Man Omnibus yet!

Stuff like that only makes people bicker. Let's keep it cool here folks. We're talking about Y: The Last Man. Let it go.

mikegraham6

02-01-2008, 03:51 PM

dude, it was all jokes, the was no malicious intent. appologies

ashgotti

02-01-2008, 06:11 PM

Back to Y, I don't really get emotionally involved with comics, till I read this issue. The pacing, the flashbacks, the escape jacket, all of it got to me and gave me a very meloncholy feeling.

I loved it. It may have been a hype issue but I loved it.

jaflanagan

02-01-2008, 08:10 PM

Hype can either go one of two ways. It can turn you against the property, or it can make you love it. Usually, for me, it's the former, but this issue was just one I wanted to love, so I did.

dave-accampo

02-01-2008, 08:17 PM

Also: there's the difference between publisher-generated hype and fan expectation.

While there was some hype, it's not like DC/Vertigo was treating this like "The Event of the Year!" Edit: well maybe they were, but they don't have much of an advertising budget...;)

A lot of it was generated by fan expectations. And that's impossible to avoid. There's no way to deliver a 5-year epic story, build a following, and then not have them put a lot of thought into what the finale will be. So I think a lot of the hype was expectation generated and fueled by the readers, and really -- that's unavoidable. So I tend to just take it in stride and try to enjoy the comic for what it is.

ashgotti

02-01-2008, 09:03 PM

Interesting tidbit, they mentioned my school, University of Ottawa in Canada. It was cool to see.

mikegraham6

02-02-2008, 01:45 AM

Interesting tidbit, they mentioned my school, University of Ottawa in Canada. It was cool to see.
so by my count we are at 4 people on the boards who are from Ottawa. Nice!

niceguyeddie

02-02-2008, 07:32 PM

That, plus I would rather not have learned about Yorick's life without her-- see my last post...

it's just preference then, which I understand. it's fracked up that 355 got killed. but that's the story.
it reminds me of the ending to the mist, the novel's ending as opposed to the movies. one ends with a somewhat ambiguous ending while the other takes it a step further.
i actually applauded the second ending. i can dig both endings, but i like having more closure, as I see it.

personally I was more thrown with what ended up happening to Hero and Beth. that came out of nowhere.

also, first book i've ever read in the parking lot outside my LCS.

zombox

02-03-2008, 01:07 AM

I loved this book. I had a long post, but this shit board ate it. :P

d3isme

02-03-2008, 09:09 PM

dave-accampo

02-03-2008, 09:16 PM

Thanks everyone for sharing their thoughts on Y.

It's another one that I've been considering but haven't picked up yet, and the feedback here has bumped this series up my list considerably.

Also, you can't spoil a story for me. I find that even if I know "the end", that good storytelling will always make the path of getting there absorbing and interesting and the surprises will be in the process.

Just wanted to add that to the debate above. I know I'm probably in the minority. But I find it more frustrating when people feel that they can't say anything in case they tell you something inadvertently.

I actually feel the same way. Endings can only go so many ways...but it's the journey combined with the ending that creates the emotional impact. I feel like I've quoted it on this board before, but Margaret Atwood has an awesome story/essay called "Happy Endings" that's all about stories and endings. Good stuff.

However, not everyone feels as I do, so I always try to be careful about spoilers. :)