'Lost' - Season 4

[six-gun]

OK, I know we've got a thread for pre-airing hype, but I think we should just start fresh with a thread for the actual season.

Shall we begin?

[mikegraham6]

you just wanted to be the first one to start the thread didn't you ;) (Winking Smilie props!)

[six-gun]

you just wanted to be the first one to start the thread didn't you ;) (Winking Smilie props!)

you got me ;)

[acomicbookgirl]

ay you people and the fascination of starting threads.. :p

[conorkilpatrick]

Well, that was an opening scene and a half.

[six-gun]

"I'm one of the Oceanic Six!"

[six-gun]

Let's see Sawyer! come on!

[six-gun]

"Everyone here will die"

[conorkilpatrick]

It's odd the visceral power that this show has over me. It's something about these group of characters but it feels so good to have them back.

[six-gun]

It's odd the visceral power that this show has over me. It's something about these group of characters but it feels so good to have them back.

Yeah, I know. It's wierd

[six-gun]

random new extras alert!

[paper]

What are you up to, Ben? I see those gears turning...

[six-gun]

Wolver... Sawyer! Heck yeah!

[conorkilpatrick]

This episode could end now and I'd be satisfied.

[paper]

Creeeeepy.

"I represent Oceanic airlines.......And Satan."

[six-gun]

the hut!

[paper]

Don't go into the ghost house, Hurley!

[conorkilpatrick]

I feel bad for the people who dropped off watching this show in season 2. Seriously.

[six-gun]

This episode could end now and I'd be satisfied.

This writers strike needs to end now! I need to see this whole season! (scary thought, what if the strike ends so far down the line that we never see the end of the show :mad: :()

[paper]

Man, you're really loving this, Conor.

I'm enjoying it, but I'm looking forward to the second half (I get the sense Cuse wrote this first half and Lindelof did the second; the quality usually jumps).

[six-gun]

"She's getting a big bundle of firewood"

[paper]

"Can you hear me now?"

[six-gun]

Man, you're really loving this, Conor.


I've got a text conversation going, my friends and I are loving it more than any episode in a long long time

[six-gun]

Hello Hugo

[humphrey-lee]

The best part of this season now is Lt. Daniels. Sho nuff...

[paper]

I think the problem I'm having is that I'm not a Hurley fan. I can never get into his episodes.

But it's the first episode of the season. So I'm torn. Arg. I love this series. What's wrong with me!

Did you ever just want to be affected by something but weren't? This is killing me.

[paper]

Alright. That did it.

[six-gun]

it's............... Charlie?

[conorkilpatrick]

My favorite thing about Hurley episodes is that you never know if what is going on is really happening or if it's his crazy happening.

[conorkilpatrick]

Ah, I'm going to miss you, Charlie. :(

[six-gun]

crazy happening

[six-gun]

Jack crossed a line. Awesome.

[paper]

Jack is once again dead to me.

Nice try, silly rabbit.

[six-gun]

Jack is once again dead to me.


nah, that was great

[paper]

"Well technically..."

hahaha!

[six-gun]

them coming all back together was a bit too convenient

[six-gun]

Whose side are you on?

[paper]

Whose side are you on?

Ben's side.


And we already know Jack made a mistake. We know the future.

[conorkilpatrick]

Jack is still my favorite character. I love him.

[six-gun]

Sawyer's with Locke!!!!!!!!!!!!

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[six-gun]

Jack is still my favorite character. I love him.


that's cool, stick with Tony Stark

[conorkilpatrick]

Hurley went with Locke but he still got off the island. Hmm...

[six-gun]

I think this flash forward takes place before the SE3 finally and that it was Hurley in the coffin

[conorkilpatrick]

So this flash forward is before Jack's... WHAT HAPPENS TO JACK THAT MAKES HIM GO CRAZY GRIZZLY?

Tell what, Hurley?

So going with Locke was a bad idea...

Ahhhhh!

I love this show.

[six-gun]

That Oceanic flight attendant is hot

[conorkilpatrick]

Woo-hoo! That was excellent.

Okay, so the Oceanic 6.

Jack
Kate
Hurley
...
...
...

Who else will get off the island? This will be like guessing who the Cylons are!

[six-gun]

Woo-hoo! That was excellent.

Okay, so the Oceanic 6.

Jack
Kate
Hurley
...
...
...

Who else will get off the island? This will be like guessing who the Cylons are!

Either Bernard or Rose, not both but the tragedy of one making it and not the other it too good for the writers to pass up

[bman]

I watched the enhanced version last night and didn't really find anything new for myself, was for sure for people who was not fans.

Now I just watched the 2 hour season 4 premier show, or what not. It was pretty slow the first hour since they were doing basically the same thing as last night but once the second hour got started it was really good. I have been a fan from the start so I guess it's hard for it to be bad. They gave the right amount of new information and kept it like it always has been. The part between Hugo & Jack was the best part, not going to say more for people who did not watch it yet.

I can't wait for next episode!!

and yea WEIRD!!!!!!!!!!

and man you guys need to learn to post more in one posting instead of posting 100 of them geez lol

[conorkilpatrick]

and man you guys need to learn to post more in one posting instead of posting 100 of them geez lol

It's called live blogging.

[six-gun]

It's called live blogging.

It's called having an awesome community that enjoys things together

[bman]

oh i get that, but this ain't exactly a blog lol

but still cool, i was joking around anyways.

[bman]

oh and the scene with hugo and jack at the court was the best part

[paper]

Sharing a favorite character with Six is not something I'm used to...

The Oceanic Six:
Jack
Kate
Hurley
Michael
Sayid
Juliet

It's tough. You need a strong ensemble on island and off. It'd be funny if Locke was one of the six.

[bman]

there would have to be a very good reason if locke was one of them

[paper]

there would have to be a very good reason if locke was one of them

...obviously.

They'd need a good reason for Hurley too, given the circumstances.

[jasontodd]

So what horrible thing did the "Oceanic 6" do to the left behind castaways to get off of the island?

They obviously feel guilty about it, and they have to keep it a secret.

[bman]

i think that is the new question, and one that is bothering me a lot and probably every one else too...ARGGgg

[paper]

Can someone recap the basketball court scene? I had to get up for 30 seconds to put the dogs out and I sense I missed something pivotal.

[bman]

Jack loses to the game, they fight, hurley says its making us go back, we need to go back, jack flips out, and that was it

[paper]

Well, it looks like they had to lie about the rest of the survivors. Maybe that's part of the deal. This would insure that no one would be looking for them.

I'm thrilled to see the return trip to the island. How do they get back there? There are so many possibilities.

[jasontodd]

Another big part of the basketball scene, is that Jack asks Hurley if he's going to reveal the secret of what happened to the other castaways, and Hurley just gives Jack a weird look.

[bman]

I think in later seasons, even after this one, they all will be back on the island, or they will all be off the island. One way or another. Maybe, who knows.

[bman]

Another big part of the basketball scene, is that Jack asks Hurley if he's going to reveal the secret of what happened to the other castaways, and Hurley just gives Jack a weird look.

oh yea i forgot to mention that, big part...

[paper]

That's what I was looking for. Thanks, JT!

[jasontodd]

That's what I was looking for. Thanks, JT!

no problem. I'm guessing that the return to the island for the Oceanic Six will happen next season, or maybe at the very end of the series. Will season 5 be the last?
I know I've heard that somehwere. I just can't remember if it's season 5 or 6.

[paper]

It's supposed to be season 6. But who knows at this point with the strike situation.

[bman]

2010 is what i heard, whatever season that is..

[yodaizmyhomie]

My theory is that the 'secret' is either the Oceanic 6 never told the rescuers that anyone else was on the island (aka Locke's crew), or somebody kills somebody.

LOST IS SO AMAZING! BEST SHOW EVER!

[fred]

My theory is that the 'secret' is either the Oceanic 6 never told the rescuers that anyone else was on the island (aka Locke's crew), or somebody kills somebody.

LOST IS SO AMAZING! BEST SHOW EVER!

how did Hurley get off the island then?

my thoughts? Hurley running in slow-mo down the beach was the best part. He has a magnificient rack.

[superfriend82]

WOW that was an amazing ep!

[jasontodd]

my thoughts? Hurley running in slow-mo down the beach was the best part. He has a magnificient rack.

Haha, that's so wrong.

[kahunablair]

Just some quick thoughts....

- The best part of the episode for me was that we all start to think that Jack's mistake, is splitting up from Locke and going to meet up with the "Boat people". Then Hurley's line about how he should have gone with Jack screws even that assumption. The mistake may involve the "Boat People", but trusting them isn't THE mistake.
Are the boat people good?

- I love Ben!

-I might be partial, but I think Ben is the reason the Six have to keep a secret. If Ben were to let people leave, he'd obviously know that they would have to never tell a soul about the island.
He'll probably keep the other passengers in a bizarre Stockholm Syndrome induced happiness. Only Ben and the Oceanic 6 know that if the secret gets out he'd kill the rest of the survivors.

-Has anyone watched the Mobisodes? Superfriend82 mentioned the final one was a must watch in the Pre-Airing Hype thread. I just want to say, he's absolutely right.
Watch it.
I think the character in that show looked a lot like the Jacob we saw tonight.

[gungadin]

*Le Sigh* I so want to like this... And I do, but not as much as I used to like it... I feel so kinda burnt out.

As an ep, it was good, dense, but not noticeably so (only in retrospect reflection) and there were good things as y'all have pointed out... Oceanic 6, Locke's group vs. Jack's group (did that feel somewhat Lord of the Flies to anyone else? And not just because one is Jack...), Hurley's flash forward was good (and there were reasons for me to have a new respect for it as an idea...), revisiting Jacob was good, and the elements of mystery that they started as plot threads are definitely intriguing. Separate sentence: The handling of Charlie's death was excellent. Great stuff...

That said, I find it hard to pull myself completely into this show. I don't know why, I know they have to set up things (as premieres tend to have to) and it was certainly the best season premiere since first season IMO... And yet, I'm lacking in getting completely back into it... Perhaps it's because I know they're going to end after eight and not sixteen... But... I dunno, I feel a lack of fervor on my part.

In conclusion, good ep, but I want it to completely pull me back in again. If they keep doing it like the one tonight, it'll certainly happen, but slowly... let's get the ball rolling on this!

Hoo ha!

[jaflanagan]

I have decided to root against Jack. Whenever something bad happens to him, I will cheer. I do not like Jack. He is a douche. Kate should go do it with Sawyer again. Suck it, Jack.

[gungadin]

I have decided to root against Jack. Whenever something bad happens to him, I will cheer. I do not like Jack. He is a douche. Kate should go do it with Sawyer again. Suck it, Jack.

That's so ironic, because my friend who got me into LOST roots for Jack in everything (especially Kate) and says Locke is evil... Me? I loves me some John Locke. Him, Sawyer, and Sayid: Always advancing the story. Good stuff.

[conorkilpatrick]

-Has anyone watched the Mobisodes? Superfriend82 mentioned the final one was a must watch in the Pre-Airing Hype thread. I just want to say, he's absolutely right.
Watch it.
I think the character in that show looked a lot like the Jacob we saw tonight.

I went to abc.com (http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/missingpieces/index?pn=index) and they only had up to the second to last one - The Envelope! Aaah!

[gungadin]

I went to abc.com (http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/missingpieces/index?pn=index) and they only had up to the second to last one - The Envelope! Aaah!

That's so lame. They should keep them all up... Shouldn't they? :confused:

[kahunablair]

Nothing ground breaking, but I saw this on another site when I was looking for the Mobisodes.
Apparently Charlie had something written on his hand...
http://img33.picoodle.com/img/img33/4/1/31/f_charlieshanm_24a9c2c.gif

I went to abc.com (http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/missingpieces/index?pn=index) and they only had up to the second to last one - The Envelope! Aaah!
Here you go:
http://spoilerslost.blogspot.com/2008/01/lost-mobisode-13-so-it-begins.html

Now, with that episode in mind, it looks like I was right about Jacob's identity....
Screenshot 1 (http://bp1.blogger.com/_8HhjIy50yEY/R6KaT6LiPCI/AAAAAAAAAQE/8onM1KrjU0g/s1600-h/mr.shephard.png)
Screenshot 2, lightened (http://bp2.blogger.com/_8HhjIy50yEY/R6KepKLiPEI/AAAAAAAAAQU/B5x9-faA0pc/s1600-h/mr.shephard2.jpg)

[conorkilpatrick]

Nothing ground breaking, but I saw this on another site when I was looking for the Mobisodes.
Apparently Charlie had something written on his hand...
http://bp3.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/R6Kp_8BEz9I/AAAAAAAASgY/uVrQnA77eos/s1600-h/charlies-hand.gif


Here you go:
http://spoilerslost.blogspot.com/2008/01/lost-mobisode-13-so-it-begins.html

Now, with that episode in mind, it looks like I was right about Jacob's identity....
Screenshot 1 (http://bp1.blogger.com/_8HhjIy50yEY/R6KaT6LiPCI/AAAAAAAAAQE/8onM1KrjU0g/s1600-h/mr.shephard.png)
Screenshot 2, lightened (http://bp2.blogger.com/_8HhjIy50yEY/R6KepKLiPEI/AAAAAAAAAQU/B5x9-faA0pc/s1600-h/mr.shephard2.jpg)

WHOA!

[gungadin]

I see your WOAH and raise you a Yeah! That mobisode and two screenshots made me more excited for the show than the season premiere!

[kahunablair]

Big time craziness, isn't it?

[mikegraham6]

Big time craziness, isn't it?
ya i caught that when i watched the episode (the joys of DVR slow motion!)

Thoughts:

-I am really shocked that Brian K Vaughn didn't write this episode. The dude is the kind of the final splash page surprise and this episode literally had a "holy shit!" moment every five minutes.

-The flash forward is probably the best idea ever, it makes the show dynamic sooooo much more interesting and while it makes for far more challenging writing, im confident the crew can handle it. My main complaint of lost was that the flashbacks could be extremely boring at times and usually only the last 5 minutes were what mattered, but the flash forwards have changed that for me. I looked forward to the flash forwards just as much as the island stuff (sometimes more!)

-Hugo was an amazing choice for this episode as well. Not only did his reaction to charlie's death and the cannonball make me love him even more, but the fact that he might be crazy gives the entire episode an "unreliable narrator" feel. Can we trust what he sees? Did the cabin really move? (yes) it was an interesting use of the flash forward dynamic too because we know for a fact he has visions in the future but does he in the past? is it safe to assume that they are manifestations from the island? who knows? this is why i love lost!

-The choice of Jeremy Davies (the dude who parachuted in at the end of the episode) was great casting. This is one creepy man, even if you ignore the whole "charles manson" look, anyone who's seen Rescue Dawn knows that the guy plays a good psycho and i can't wait to see how he screws with the losties

-fuckin' Cedrick Daniels! Hells yes! I hope he becomes a regular in the flash forwards, he's a great actor and, even though he's a good guy on The Wire, he has a creepy look and voice that would make him a perfect antagonist. Great casting!

all in all i think this was one of the best episodes, a definite strong opening that makes me really upset we only get 7 more. Lost continues to prove to me that it deserves to be called one of the best shows on televison

Sharing a favorite character with Six is not something I'm used to...

The Oceanic Six:
Jack
Kate
Hurley
Michael
Sayid
Juliet

It's tough. You need a strong ensemble on island and off. It'd be funny if Locke was one of the six.

My buddy and I were discussing this and he said Desmond, but if they are called the "Oceanic six" wouldn't that title dictate the survivors are passengers from the plane? then that discounts Julliet and Desmond right?

[paper]

That's a good point.

You gotta think, who would have more to do off island. And there was a funeral, so who dies? Maybe Rose is one of the six and she gets sick again. Or maybe that's somebody who has a major arc, like a big action adventure all season, only to be killed by season's antagonist. And we've already seen their funeral.

[mikegraham6]

i think Rose or Bernard would be likely candidates just because they would surprise the audience (they got to throw one dark horse in there). Although i could see the 2 of them choosing to stay on the island (along with locke). Im not sure about Michael either, do you think he'll come back? i don't know (maybe he'll be the one who finally saves them)
i think sayid will die heroicly before the show's done. Although i don't like her character, i think Claire is a good choice as one of the six, she does have a baby after all...

[six-gun]

Re: MikeG

I don't think that the Lost staff views BKV as the superhero we do

Re: Paper

Sawyer's your favorite too? Weird (also, do you think he was inspired by Melvile's Confidence-Man?)

[six-gun]

My buddy and I were discussing this and he said Desmond, but if they are called the "Oceanic six" wouldn't that title dictate the survivors are passengers from the plane? then that discounts Julliet and Desmond right?

exactly

[mikegraham6]

Re: MikeG

I don't think that the Lost staff views BKV as the superhero we do


That's not what i meant though. The way the episode was written, with some sort of dramatic cliffhanger at almost every commercial break, felt like BKV's style. It was almost more in line with an episode of 24 than Lost, that's not to say i didn't love it though! It went a mile a minute, and i must have gasped at least 5-6 times!

[six-gun]

That's not what i meant though. The way the episode was written, with some sort of dramtic cliffhanger at almost every commercial break, felt like BKV's style. It wasn't almost more in line with an episode of 24 than Lost, that's not to say i didn't love it though! It went a mile a minute, and i must have gasped at least 5-6 times!

Oh, I see what you mean and yes, I agree

[mikegraham6]

That's not what i meant though. The way the episode was written, with some sort of dramatic cliffhanger at almost every commercial break, felt like BKV's style. It was almost more in line with an episode of 24 than Lost, that's not to say i didn't love it though! It went a mile a minute, and i must have gasped at least 5-6 times!
that post had some gramatical typos that kinda screwed up my point, but i fixed it

[yodaizmyhomie]

i think Claire is a good choice as one of the six, she does have a baby after all...

I think Claire will be one of them, otherwise Desmond's visions would be wrong. He hasn't been wrong yet, has he?

[mikegraham6]

I think Claire will be one of them, otherwise Desmond's visions would be wrong. He hasn't been wrong yet, has he?
didn't he only see clair get onto a helicopter in his vision? then that doesn't necessarily mean she will get off the island, the "boat people" have a helicopter and we all know they won't be the ones to save the Losties...

[superfriend82]

This show IS MADNESS MADESS YOU HEAR ME MADNESS!!!! HA! HA! HA! HA!

This show makes me go with the crazys.

[six-gun]

We need to start a Lost kill count like the 24 kill counter (http://www.bauercount.com/v3/index.php/season/show/6)

I mean, what else do you think Sawyer's going to do with that sexy workhorse of a gun

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a161/Sn4ke22/300px-Stgw_90.jpg

[mikegraham6]

I love how half the fun of this show is the discussions i have with you guys on the forums and my roommates. This is going to be the first season where my roommate will be caught up and watch with me in "real time" (read: no DVDs) and i really look forward to formulating theories with him during the commercial breaks (ya, that's right, i don't mind commercials during Lost!)

[superfriend82]

Did any one elase get a little misty eyed when Hurly had to tell Claire that Charlie is dead?

Crazy thought: What if Disiney or Abc buys an iland and they trun it into a lost theme park and you fly there by Oceanic. I know it will never happen but still.


Crack pot thery: What if Vinecnt is the coffiin. lol

[mikegraham6]

Did any one elase get a little misty eyed when Hurly had to tell Claire that Charlie is dead?

Crazy thought: What if Disiney or Abc buys an iland and they trun it into a lost theme park and you fly there by Oceanic. I know it will never happen but still.


Crack pot thery: What if Vinecnt is the coffiin. lol
coffin's too big :rolleyes:

[superfriend82]

Hurly can see dead people. what if is Dave dead, Patchy dead, Charlie dead, Jacod/Chritian Sheperad dead.

Also i hurly is in the coffin.

[gungadin]

I would just like to point out that Sawyer's my favorite. He's a great character...

Also, re the "cliffhanger ending." I saw that coming as an ending a mile away. It was interesting, but it really didn't hold weight for me.

Did anyone else just love Jack in the flashforwards?

[paper]

Six: My two favorite characters are Sawyer and Ben.

[cammyknoxville]

I wouldn't mind seeing this season ending with the 'Oceanic Six' getting off the island. Then they can do what Jack said 'never' to, and go back to the island for the other survivors.

Awesome first episode, and I always love it when Hugo is seeing people who aren't really there.

And like someone else pointed out, Lt. Daniels for the win!

[gungadin]

Six: My two favorite characters are Sawyer and Ben.

Those are probably my two personal favs too... Good choices!

[fred]

Yeah, Ben's great.

Jack, with your permission, I'd like to go with him.

[kahunablair]

Yeah, Ben's great.

Jack, with your permission, I'd like to go with him.

That line is almost as good as the infamous, "Got any Milk?".

[baldmonkey]

So the one in the coffin in last seasons finale, was that one of the "Oceanic 6"?

[kahunablair]

So the one in the coffin in last seasons finale, was that one of the "Oceanic 6"?

For some reason I want to say no.

Jack went out and couldn't get coffee without getting asked for autographs. I really doubt one of the 6 could have died without a bunch of weird people poking their heads in at the funeral.

[bman]

Yea I also doubt that it would be one of the six.

[gungadin]

For some reason I want to say no.

Jack went out and couldn't get coffee without getting asked for autographs. I really doubt one of the 6 could have died without a bunch of weird people poking their heads in at the funeral.

But maybe the six have a fall from grace at some time. We don't have any time stamps on the flash forwards. I'd say the "Jack's flashforward" would take place sometime a few years after he gets off the island, but Hurley's flashforward has only been a couple of months after the island... There could be years where people just grow both to not know and/or not care.

... I think I worded that really poorly.

[kahunablair]

Some excellent points there, GungaDin.
I may have to rethink my stance.

[itsbecca]

FINALLY got a chance to watch

Just some quick thoughts....

- The best part of the episode for me was that we all start to think that Jack's mistake, is splitting up from Locke and going to meet up with the "Boat people". Then Hurley's line about how he should have gone with Jack screws even that assumption. The mistake may involve the "Boat People", but trusting them isn't THE mistake.
Are the boat people good?

- I love Ben!


I agree on both accounts. Ben is my favorite character, and the best actor (in my opinion). Also, the boat people.... ugh... and this is so the amazing thing about flash forwards as well. I was very excited to see that wasn't just a finale thing.

The choice of Jeremy Davies (the dude who parachuted in at the end of the episode) was great casting. This is one creepy man, even if you ignore the whole "charles manson" look, anyone who's seen Rescue Dawn knows that the guy plays a good psycho and i can't wait to see how he screws with the losties


Seriously. That was my exact thought, although I will always see a little manson in him.

I have decided to root against Jack. Whenever something bad happens to him, I will cheer. I do not like Jack. He is a douche. Kate should go do it with Sawyer again. Suck it, Jack.

I have felt this way for a very long time.


Here's something I find strange about Hugo's scenes. The "lawyer" and Charlie. I didn't find the first suspect, until the second happpened. EVEN STILL, both were pointed out to him by other people. Are neither real? Are both real? And in the scene with Jacob's hut it really highlights the interplay between Hugo's "hallucenations" and the island. There is definitley more to that than just insanity, and god damnit I want to know what. That's why I like his episodes.

Random question. I have a bad memory, do we know why Desmond went to prison yet?

[kahunablair]

Just had two silly thoughts.

1) Who would actually want to get a Golden Ticket from an airline after they were involved in a plane crash?

2) What if the "Them" and "They" that the 6 have to go back to the island to help, aren't the other survivors? The way this show likes to twist things, whose to say that out of the Survivors only those 6 remained alive? I could see them pulling a fast one and something goofy like that happening.

[dave-accampo]

Yeesh, I hate watching Lost late -- now I have to wade through 11 pages to see what you guys are talking about.

Real quick: you guys forgot (unless I missed it) to tell Paper one key thing that happened with Jack and Hurley at the basketball court. Hurley said "I"m sorry I went with Locke. I should have gone with you, Jack." That's huge.

(sorry if you guys said it already OR it wasn't part of that scene).

Fantastic episode -- really hit on all cylinders and reminds me of why I loved this show from the very first minutes of the very first episode. While the reunion around the wreckage did feel a little staged, it was totally perfect for the story. One thing that I loved is that this episode felt very focused. It really feels like we're heading towards something -- so, I really hope it doesn't derail.

Charlie: "I'm dead AND I'm here." Brilliant.

The ghost house was fantastic and creepy.

Ben was awesome.

Oh, and I'll cop to being a Jack fan. Sawyer...I like Sawyer, but I feel like we've seen him in every bad boy character ever. I like Jack because he's got this hugely self-destructive side. He pushes so hard to save everyone while destroying himself. The I love the duality of characters like that. It's something that always intrigues me in my own writing as well.

[kahunablair]

Random question. I have a bad memory, do we know why Desmond went to prison yet?
As far as I remember, they have only said it had something to do with "refusing to obey orders".

[gungadin]

That's an interesting thing to think about. "I shouldn't have gone with Locke, I should have stayed with you." But then he comments about how the island wants them back or something and how he thinks he never should have gone back. That's such an interesting thing. So what does it mean? It's very... He doesn't want to have gotten off the island, but he knows he should have gone with Jack. Jack's point is to get off the island. Fascinating. I'm thinking them getting off the island doesn't have anything to do with what group they went with...

[conorkilpatrick]

Oh, and I'll cop to being a Jack fan. Sawyer...I like Sawyer, but I feel like we've seen him in every bad boy character ever. I like Jack because he's got this hugely self-destructive side. He pushes so hard to save everyone while destroying himself. The I love the duality of characters like that. It's something that always intrigues me in my own writing as well.

That's exactly why Jack's my favorite too. He's got a little bit of Batman in him.

[kahunablair]

He's got a little bit of Batman in him.

BINGO! Never saw that before. Nice analogy, Mr. Kilpatrick!

How's everyone feel about Kate? I used to be a fan of hers, but then the whole Sawyer thing has made me not like her at all.

[itsbecca]

That makes Jack an interesting character, yes. He's brilliant, in fact. It's as a person within the realm of the show I don't like him. He constantly enrages. The decisions he makes under his weight as a leader, it's such a self-righteous crusade. Even still he's ruled by his emotions and we constantly see that he struggles with not wanting this responsibility. But he has this hero complex. Oh it's so infuriating!

[itsbecca]

BINGO! Never saw that before. Nice analogy, Mr. Kilpatrick!

How's everyone feel about Kate? I used to be a fan of hers, but then the whole Sawyer thing has made me not like her at all.

Super Kate? She definitley has her moments that I loathe her, but overall I really like her preservatory selfishness (not unlike Sawyer, but less manipulative) and her way of getting things done. I love that this show has such strong women.

[itsbecca]

Watching the recap episode really makes me interested in the time frame of the two flash forward episodes in relation to each other. In this episode when Hurley tells Jack (who overall looks healthy and is supposedly back to his work) that the island wants him back he looks so frightened and angry by that prospect. Back in the finale flash forward, we have disheveled, drunk and bearded Jack ("I'm thinking of growing a beard") saying that he flys a lot in hopes that it will crash.

"I actually close my eyes and ... pray that I can get back ... No I'm sick of lying. We made a mistake ... We were not supposed to leave ... We have to go back Kate"

So do we think finale is later?

[kahunablair]

Yeah, it is later. I think that's why they threw in the line about Jack thinking about growing a beard.

[itsbecca]

Which means there's going to be some crazy stuff going on in the flash forward time period. Which I find so fascinating, because right now the biggest interest in them is what sort of hints they give us.

[conorkilpatrick]

So no one freaks out - they are going to be flashing BACK with the "rescuers".

[kahunablair]

-Did anyone else get a weird vibe from that giant tree in Hurley's flashforward? The one he's painting under when Charlie walks up to him?

-The more I think about it, I can't really see any situation in which Jack would leave the other survivors on the island.
Even if they were hostages, Jack would have gone back there to save them.
If they were held as hostages, why would the Hanso/Others/Whoever even let those 6 off the island?

[gungadin]

How's everyone feel about Kate? I used to be a fan of hers, but then the whole Sawyer thing has made me not like her at all.

Ehhhh... She's okay. She just always seems to be there. I can't remember much about her actually advancing the plot or whatnot.

[kahunablair]

Super Kate?

Super Kate? Is Becca a Jay and Jack listener?

[itsbecca]

Super Kate? Is Becca a Jay and Jack listener?

haha. Well I was late to Lost, after I watched all the first season dvds I went crazy and started listening to like 6 Lost Podcasts. I eventually stopped because it really drove me nuts how the best fans are also the most whiney and nitpicky and I just got tired of hearing so much complaining about one of my favorite shows. They were definitley one of the better one's though.

So no one freaks out - they are going to be flashing BACK with the "rescuers".

Oh a spoiler. I'm glad I won't freak out now. *growl* *snap*

[fred]

1) Who would actually want to get a Golden Ticket from an airline after they were involved in a plane crash?


No kidding, it's ironic remunieration. It would be like giving a lifetime supply of matches to a kid who lost their parents in a fire.

[mikegraham6]

So no one freaks out - they are going to be flashing BACK with the "rescuers".
where's this info coming from?

[conorkilpatrick]

where's this info coming from?

Entertainment Weekly's blurb about next week's show.

[mikegraham6]

so next week's episode is going to be Naomi's flashback? (i'd assume it's her because she's the most well known of the two)

[conorkilpatrick]

so next week's episode is going to be Naomi's flashback? (i'd assume it's her because she's the most well known of the two)

I dunno - I wouldn't assume anything at this point. :)

[superfriend82]

Super Kate? Is Becca a Jay and Jack listener?

I love Jay&Jack. I also like The Dharmalasrs.

[idave]

I don't know if anyone caught this in the New Avengers annual, but on one page there is a truck that says Oceanic Airlines on it. It has the same symbol used in the show and everything.

[conorkilpatrick]

I don't know if anyone caught this in the New Avengers annual, but on one page there is a truck that says Oceanic Airlines on it. It has the same symbol used in the show and everything.

Yep. It's part of Lost's ad campaign. Talked about extensively here (http://revision3.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14319).

[jasontodd]

Does anyone have any theories about who the "rescuers" really are?

The only thing that I can think of is that they're descendants of the Dharma Initiative, since Ben killed everyone that was there originally.

[superfriend82]

Does anyone have any theories about who the "rescuers" really are?

The only thing that I can think of is that they're descendants of the Dharma Initiative, since Ben killed everyone that was there originally.

I think thats what everyone is thinking.

[itsbecca]

so next week's episode is going to be Naomi's flashback? (i'd assume it's her because she's the most well known of the two)

Right... but isn't she the more dead of the two? Yes they often kill people off on their flash back episodes, but I don't belevie they've ever given someone an episode after they were dead.

[gungadin]

Right... but isn't she the more dead of the two? Yes they often kill people off on their flash back episodes, but I don't belevie they've ever given someone an episode after they were dead.

I was about to say Nikki/Paulo... But they weren't dead...

That was a great episode, the one with those two.

[tad]

-The more I think about it, I can't really see any situation in which Jack would leave the other survivors on the island.
Even if they were hostages, Jack would have gone back there to save them.
If they were held as hostages, why would the Hanso/Others/Whoever even let those 6 off the island?

Jack's sense of purpose has always been about getting off the island. It would be hard to give up that to just "enjoy" island life. Especially when the island has been dicking with them.

Jack might miss civilization.

Jack and the other five had to leave the island so the rest of the survivors wouldn't be searched for. It may be a self sacrificing moment that he comes to regret. Hurley asked, "Are you afraid I was going to tell?"

Jack killed an innocent person. He was mistaken but he can't take the guilt from the others.

Jack had to leave to help someone else off the island.

The others rejected Jack as leader. He couldn't face the demotion.

The others chose death or some other extreme form of transformation to achieve whatever level of existence Charlie exists in and the six couldn't go along with it.

The show puts characters through a lot. I'm sure there's a way to make Jack take a walk.

[itsbecca]

Also, Jack already tried to get off the island in exchange for fixing dear Ben. So obviously his emotions can run him ragged enough to make those kind of decisions.

[kahunablair]

Also, Jack already tried to get off the island in exchange for fixing dear Ben. So obviously his emotions can run him ragged enough to make those kind of decisions.

Yeah, but he did that because he was going to get help. That was my point. Sure he wants off, but he wants EVERYONE off with him.

He's proven his need to be a hero is more important then self preservation, I don't think anything could make him not want to save people.

[gungadin]

I was actually thinking about last season's finale and my mind stumbled across an idea.

In the flashforwards, Jack KNOWS Hurley thinks they should go back. Yet, in the season finale, he goes to Kate to tell her that he thinks they should. Why not go to Hurley who will believe him and then maybe go to Kate? What's happened with that?

[conorkilpatrick]

In the flashforwards, Jack KNOWS Hurley thinks they should go back. Yet, in the season finale, he goes to Kate to tell her that he thinks they should. Why not go to Hurley who will believe him and then maybe go to Kate? What's happened with that?

Probably because he's in love with Kate.

[gungadin]

Probably because he's in love with Kate.

Well... yeah... But the fact that it sounds like she's his last and/or only hope is something to think about... Wherefore not Hurley?

[itsbecca]

Yeah, but he did that because he was going to get help. That was my point. Sure he wants off, but he wants EVERYONE off with him.


I'm not sure I agree with that. He obviously has a strong hero complex, but he's also extremely emotion and, to put it bluntly, a horrific fuck up because of it (thanks alcoholic daddy!) I think getting away was definitley his main emotion. He had just seen the woman he loved having sex with someone he views as generally dispicable. And we know that when it comes to love it screws him up the absolute worst. I would have to go back and watch that episode or two to make a better point about it though.

[dave-accampo]

I'm not sure I agree with that.

Well, Kahuna's right in that Jack did flat out say he wanted off the island to get help and rescue everyone. But I think Tad pointed out that there are a number of reasons in which Jack might leave the island without everyone there. I can see a few possibilities. One might even be that we have no idea of the STATE Jack is in when he leaves. Maybe he wasn't even conscious...? Who knows...

[itsbecca]

Ehhh I don't think it's that clear cut. Not much on this show is. Especially since he knows (whether he wants at all times to be logical and accept it) that the island cannot be found once you've left it.

[jasontodd]

Well, Kahuna's right in that Jack did flat out say he wanted off the island to get help and rescue everyone. But I think Tad pointed out that there are a number of reasons in which Jack might leave the island without everyone there. I can see a few possibilities. One might even be that we have no idea of the STATE Jack is in when he leaves. Maybe he wasn't even conscious...? Who knows...

I agree... Jack was willing to leave by himself on the sub in season 3 when he saw Kate/ Sawyer. I could easily see Jack having reason to leave everyone again.

[mikegraham6]

Anyone else notice how BOTH flashforwards have continuity errors? The first: Jack calls for his Dad
the second: a patient in Hurley's institution points Charlie out to him


Now we know that the Lost folks don't usually make mistakes, so what does that say about the flash forwards?

[baldmonkey]

Anyone else notice how BOTH flashforwards have continuity errors? The first: Jack calls for his Dad
the second: a patient in Hurley's institution points Charlie out to him


Now we know that the Lost folks don't usually make mistakes, so what does that say about the flash forwards?

Charlie was an illusion.

[dave-accampo]

Anyone else notice how BOTH flashforwards have continuity errors? The first: Jack calls for his Dad
the second: a patient in Hurley's institution points Charlie out to him


Now we know that the Lost folks don't usually make mistakes, so what does that say about the flash forwards?

Well, we can't really say they're continuity errors since they're in the future.

The suggestion from the first is that Jack's dad may have returned to life. After all, Jack did see him walking around early in the first season. And folks on the island have been known to come back to life...

Charlie actually says "I'm dead AND I'm here" -- so maybe he really WAS there. In some extra-dimensional fashion. Or maybe only other crazy people can see Charlie. Or maybe the guy who pointed him out was also a hallucination.

With this show, we just don't know...

[dave-accampo]

Ehhh I don't think it's that clear cut. Not much on this show is. Especially since he knows (whether he wants at all times to be logical and accept it) that the island cannot be found once you've left it.

But...does he really "know" that? I mean he's been TOLD that, but he's been told a lot of things he doesn't believe. He's dismissed almost all the supernatural stuff he's seen. So, I don't doubt for a second that he believes HE could have left the island and found it again. He probably thinks that everyone else "just didn't try hard enough." THAT seems to fit with his character to me...;)

[conorkilpatrick]

Anyone else notice how BOTH flashforwards have continuity errors? The first: Jack calls for his Dad
the second: a patient in Hurley's institution points Charlie out to him


Now we know that the Lost folks don't usually make mistakes, so what does that say about the flash forwards?

Neither one of those are errors.

Jack was so out of his mind on drugs he got mixed up, people under extreme duress and chemical help have been known to ask to talk to dead people or people who aren't there. And the producers were trying to trick us into thinking it was the past.

[six-gun]

Charlie was an illusion.

I think what Mike meant that the patient shouldn't have seen Charlie.

I think the patient was an illusion too.

[mikegraham6]

I think what Mike meant that the patient shouldn't have seen Charlie.

I think the patient was an illusion too.
ya, that's what i meant, how could the dude have seen charlie. Also i don't think charlie was "real" because the Charlie disappeared when Hurley counted to five.

I think the word "continuity errors" was a bad choice, but i couldn't think of a better term. But they are both strange occurances that happened in the future. How do you account for both of these errors (the idea that the other patient was illusion is too simple, there HAS to be something else)

[itsbecca]

The idea that the other patient was illusion is too simple, there HAS to be something else

I am of the beleif that there very much is something else there. Especially because they used the same effect on Jacob's hut, which has lots of super creepy voodoo around it. Achems Razor need not apply when Lost is in question.

[dave-accampo]

Well, given that we've seen invisible ghosts and a monster made of smoke, I'm personally not discounting the idea that Charlie WAS real AND could also disappear when Hurley counted to five. It's really too early to tell. Trans-dimensional phasing? Supernatural hoo-doo? The playing field is wide-open on this show. So there's really NOTHING we can discount on these flash-forwards.

Personally, I like that Charlie was both there and not there. It's very schrodinger's cat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger%27s_cat). :D

[mikegraham6]

Neither one of those are errors.

Jack was so out of his mind on drugs he got mixed up, people under extreme duress and chemical help have been known to ask to talk to dead people or people who aren't there. And the producers were trying to trick us into thinking it was the past.

but the producers "intentional errors" have ALWAYS deeper than just a "trick"

[mikegraham6]

probably been posted before but:
So Weird...........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLg7smJJU6s&feature=related
Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLg7smJJU6s&feature=related)

[gungadin]

That is so frakked up.

[kahunablair]

I know we mentioned it earlier, but there is a fan podcast called The Lost Podcast with Jay and Jack. They had a show come out yesterday that had a really great interview with Jorge "Hurley" Garcia.

Some cool little tidbits...
-The Cabin scene in which Hurley sees Jacob/Christian Shephard, was also shot with Hurley in his Mental Ward robes as Jacob.
-The Igloo Hurley was painting, wasn't a clue. Garcia was just told to paint something, and he figured Hurley would want something as far away from a tropical island as possible.
-The interrogation room mirror turning into a fish tank, didn't originally have Charlie in it. The script had it written as just a underwater scene.

Well... yeah... But the fact that it sounds like she's his last and/or only hope is something to think about... Wherefore not Hurley?

Maybe Hurley isn't in a position to go with Jack by the time Jack comes around to the idea.

[superfriend82]

check out what i found at jay and Jack forums. You may have to scroll up few ways.Look for Hurely's painting.

http://lostpodcast.proboards2.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1201874281&page=1#1202164569

[kahunablair]

check out what i found at jay and Jack forums. You may have to scroll up few ways.Look for Hurely's painting.

http://lostpodcast.proboards2.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1201874281&page=1#1202164569

The Polar Bear? I think that falls into the category of looking at it things to hard.

[superfriend82]

The Polar Bear? I think that falls into the category of looking at it things to hard.

but still. Come on.

[kahunablair]

Like I said in the post above that one, Garcia painted that without any direction.
It's just a case of people looking at a cloud and seeing a UFO.

[mikegraham6]

The Polar Bear? I think that falls into the category of looking at it things to hard.

agreed. it looks nothing like a polar bear when it's not specifically highlighted. It's just snow, people!!

[itsbecca]

2nd reason I got out of listening to the podcasts. Crazy theories like those. Sometimes they're fun and inventive and something they're just so so.... so so so stretching for something that's not there.

[mikegraham6]

is thursday night the new night for Lost, or was that just a one time thing? Didn't it used to air on Wednesdays? why the change?

[euchre0]

1) Who would actually want to get a Golden Ticket from an airline after they were involved in a plane crash?
I think I would. Even having gone through a plane crash, I wouldn't be terrified of crashing again (or so I assume in my current landlocked position.) Also, I think I might figure that it couldn't happen again. Free ticket to anywhere the airline goes to! Man, I'd use it all the time!

That's exactly why Jack's my favorite too. He's got a little bit of Batman in him.
He is Batman! Sometimes Batman is a jerk, but when the chips are down, you need him on your side. Just like Jack.

I'm not sure I agree with that. He obviously has a strong hero complex, but he's also extremely emotion and, to put it bluntly, a horrific fuck up because of it (thanks alcoholic daddy!) I think getting away was definitley his main emotion. He had just seen the woman he loved having sex with someone he views as generally dispicable. And we know that when it comes to love it screws him up the absolute worst. I would have to go back and watch that episode or two to make a better point about it though.

Jack was willing to leave by himself on the sub in season 3 when he saw Kate/ Sawyer. I could easily see Jack having reason to leave everyone again.

The way Jack has been portrayed the ENTIRE show is to save people, even as his emotions run rampant. While a few episodes tried to trick us into thinking he was with the "others," it was later shown that his motive the entire time was to get off and get help. Even when he saw Sawyer and Kate having sex, he used that as a cover for him to convince Ben that he was fed up and willing to forsake everyone else in his "rage." Sure, he was really hurt and angry, but as he told Kate later, he told her not to come back because he thought it would keep her safe while he got off to find help, not because he was angry with her. It is completely out of character for Jack to think of only himself.


By the way, when was the last time we say the smoke monster thing? When Eko was killed? When was the last time anyone saw a creepily soaked Walt in the jungle?

[kahunablair]

I think I would. Even having gone through a plane crash, I wouldn't be terrified of crashing again (or so I assume in my current landlocked position.) Also, I think I might figure that it couldn't happen again. Free ticket to anywhere the airline goes to! Man, I'd use it all the time!
The problem is you're thinking logically, people get messed up when something like a car accident happens. Imagine what would happen when you crashed in a plane!

The way Jack has been portrayed the ENTIRE show is to save people, even as his emotions run rampant. While a few episodes tried to trick us into thinking he was with the "others," it was later shown that his motive the entire time was to get off and get help. Even when he saw Sawyer and Kate having sex, he used that as a cover for him to convince Ben that he was fed up and willing to forsake everyone else in his "rage." Sure, he was really hurt and angry, but as he told Kate later, he told her not to come back because he thought it would keep her safe while he got off to find help, not because he was angry with her. It is completely out of character for Jack to think of only himself.
Bingo!

By the way, when was the last time we say the smoke monster thing? When Eko was killed? When was the last time anyone saw a creepily soaked Walt in the jungle?
Walt was last seen in the finale with the "Locke shot in the pit scene."
Smokey was last seen when it killed Eko.

[six-gun]

He is Batman! Sometimes Batman is a jerk, but when the chips are down, you need him on your side. Just like Jack.


Batman's not a winy little punk

[conorkilpatrick]

Batman's not a winy little punk

Neither is Jack.

[kahunablair]

The Batman/Jack comparison is dead-on. Jack isn't whiny, he broods.

2nd reason I got out of listening to the podcasts. Crazy theories like those. Sometimes they're fun and inventive and something they're just so so.... so so so stretching for something that's not there.
Exactly the same reason for me. I stopped last season because it got WAY to crazy. They go into some crazy stuff, and GOD forbid there is a mistake!

[mikegraham6]

got any good examples? i'd love to hear them

[kahunablair]

got any good examples? i'd love to hear them
For what?

[mikegraham6]

sorry.
for the crackpot theories that just got to crazy

[kahunablair]

sorry.
for the crackpot theories that just got to crazy

Oh ok.
The one that made me stop listening was actually about the Desmond episode where he goes back in time.
Mainly the scene where he is asking Penny's Dad for his consent for their engagement.

There was a set of paintings in the background, that people disected the crap out of. They went really into it about how it had a polar bear and it proved that Desmond was dreaming, or that the painting looked like Claire's baby daddy's paintings.
It was insane.

The best part? A week later they were all told they were nuts, and the paintings were just done by the art director. There was no meaning behind them at all!

[euchre0]

Batman's not a winy little punk

When was Jack whiny? Kate's been whiny. Sawyer has been whiny. Locke's been whiny. Good Lord, has Charlie been whiny. But Jack? I can't think of a single instance where he's been whiny.

By the way, Jack isn't one of my favorite characters, but I don't understand where all the animosity toward his character comes from. He's about as close to selfless as any character on that show.

[euchre0]

The problem is you're thinking logically, people get messed up when something like a car accident happens. Imagine what would happen when you crashed in a plane!
I think I might be a bit jumpy, sure. I've been in a pretty bad car accident, and while it made me jumpy for a while when driving, I still would have taken a "golden gas ticket" for unlimited free gas. But the offer of a free ride to anywhere would over come that lickedy split! I could fly to Jim Hanley's on Wednesdays just to pick up my books and then fly back to Austin. I could fly to Cleveland and pay 15 bucks for cheap seats to watch a Saturday Indians game! Sign me up!


Then again, my wife says I'm just a bigger talker when it comes to hypothetical situations like this, so there's that to consider.


Chances are if anyone is to get off the island they will have to get back on a plane, which might help overcome the fear created by the initial crash.

[superfriend82]

2nd reason I got out of listening to the podcasts. Crazy theories like those. Sometimes they're fun and inventive and something they're just so so.... so so so stretching for something that's not there.

Ok sure there is some crazy stuff that goes on Lost podcast.But i thats one of resons that i love listening to them.The other is to hear how all the names mean something. My two fav lost podcdast are the Jay and Jack and the Dharmalirs. The reson i like Jay and Jack is because that i like the way Jay and Jack roll off each other. The reson i like Dharmalirs is that they have a more relax. Ben and Ralph the host don't realy get into crazy theories. it's just fun podcast adout Lost.

[superfriend82]

Ok a adout the Jack is like Batman thing. Now that i think of it Jack is a little like Batman. But i still like the Locke i don't think he's that crazy. Sure he killed Naomi. He was just doing what he thought was best for the iland.locke is just a intersting guy. Also has any one notice that Sayer does act like wolverine.

[itsbecca]

Don't care for Jack, but I don't like Lock either. I really did at first, because he's a bad ass. Yet, I'm scientifically minded and his whole spiritual thing drives me crazy. And it makes him very shortsighted (ala Boon's death. Although, good riddance to bad trash there.) That said, if I was in the position of choosing Jack or Lock, I would probably feel more comfortable with Jack. But situation always matters, and in the case of last week I'd have chosen Lock, even though him as a leader would make me uncomfortable.

Also, Jack is whiny. He thinks he carries the weight of the world on his shoulders and he has to go cry in the jungle. Yes, sometimes it's justifiable. Other times it's brought completely on by himself.

[dave-accampo]

Also, Jack is whiny. He thinks he carries the weight of the world on his shoulders and he has to go cry in the jungle. Yes, sometimes it's justifiable. Other times it's brought completely on by himself.

Gotta disagree with you on this one, Becca. When has Jack ever cried in the jungle. He's determined, and he makes his choices and doesn't look back. Even if everyone turns against him, he sticks to his guns. He truly believes he knows what's best, and he acts on it.

That's not whiny at all. I can't think of a time he's been whiny.

Other than he's had moments demanding answers, of course. But they've all been there.

Maybe it's also how we define "whiny."

I mean, the fact that Jack is against certain things and speaks out about it, does not, IMHO, make him whiny. But someone else might see that as whining about the right way to do things.

However, I'd still argue that jack just DOES it, and sticks to it. Thus: not whiny. ;)

[hadees]

Ah, I'm going to miss you, Charlie. :(

I'm not so sure he is gone for good. Remember the guy with the eye patch looked like he was dead. Also it seems that ghosts exist on the Island so maybe he will stick around that way.

[itsbecca]

Gotta disagree with you on this one, Becca. When has Jack ever cried in the jungle. He's determined, and he makes his choices and doesn't look back. Even if everyone turns against him, he sticks to his guns. He truly believes he knows what's best, and he acts on it.

That's not whiny at all. I can't think of a time he's been whiny.

Other than he's had moments demanding answers, of course. But they've all been there.

Maybe it's also how we define "whiny."

I mean, the fact that Jack is against certain things and speaks out about it, does not, IMHO, make him whiny. But someone else might see that as whining about the right way to do things.

However, I'd still argue that jack just DOES it, and sticks to it. Thus: not whiny. ;)

Which some might argue is being stubborn... which is not a great feature of a leader and is one thing that really really grates against me as far as he goes.

And he has cried in the jungle; although, it may be exaggerated in my memory due to it being kind of a big joke among the fanbase. I'll look up some examples.

J

[kahunablair]

Jack has broken down and sobbed in the jungle before. I can't blame the guy though!
Look at all the crap he's gone through.

[kahunablair]

A humorous display of Jack weeping...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSb7iCn5jX8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSb7iCn5jX8

I personally think that these human moments make Jack believable. There is no way a guy would do what he does without cracking a little.

[itsbecca]

pahaha. Thank you for that.

And everyone's gone through just as much as him, he's an emotional wreck. Some people enjoy it, I personally... don't. (and to clarify again, I think he's a well done character on the show. I mean I don't like him in a manner as if I was on the island I would probably quietly despise him.)

[dave-accampo]

Which some might argue is being stubborn... which is not a great feature of a leader and is one thing that really really grates against me as far as he goes.

And he has cried in the jungle; although, it may be exaggerated in my memory due to it being kind of a big joke among the fanbase. I'll look up some examples.

J

Oh, I'm sure he's done it -- but I hardly think of that as being WHINY. I mean, ANYONE in their situation is due a moment like that.

Stubborn, yes. I agree with that.

[dave-accampo]

A humorous display of Jack weeping...
OK, fair enough he has certainly cried a bit. But I don't find it whiny.

Maybe I just define it differently.

I know there are some people who think any display of man weeping means he's a whiny bitch. ;)



(err, not anyone here -- just making a generalization)

[itsbecca]

OK, fair enough he has certainly cried a bit. But I don't find it whiny.

Maybe I just define it differently.

I know there are some people who think any display of man weeping means he's a whiny bitch. ;)



(err, not anyone here -- just making a generalization)

Not to say that you were directing it at me, but I would like to state for the record that I don't equate anything negative with a man crying. For the record.

[dave-accampo]

Not to say that you were directing it at me, but I would like to state for the record that I don't equate anything negative with a man crying. For the record.

Oh no, I was quite serious about it being a generalization. I was actually thinking of some guy friends of mine...no one on these boards. :)

[jonathand-gordon]

I am going to guess that Kate is not one of the Oceanic 6 and that when Hugo was saying that Jack was only visiting to see if he told some secret, it was the secret that Kate will have got off the island but not publicizes that she got off the island as part of the Oceanic six. That may be why the guy from "The Wire" came to visit him and asked if the others were still alive.

This explains why Jack and Kate had to meet so secretive last season in the first flash forward and how Kate would return without being arrested for murder.

[euchre0]

Ok a adout the Jack is like Batman thing. Now that i think of it Jack is a little like Batman. But i still like the Locke i don't think he's that crazy. Sure he killed Naomi. He was just doing what he thought was best for the iland.locke is just a intersting guy. Also has any one notice that Sayer does act like wolverine.

Locke is kind of stupid. Not as a character, but just in the way he does things. Don't get me wrong, he might be my favorite character, but every time they do background episode on him, he makes dumb decisions. This island experience is supposed to be his redemption, but he still struggles with dumb decisions.
When it comes to killing Naomi, he didn't have to throw a knife in her back, he simply could have started yelling to distract her or something.

And everyone's gone through just as much as him, he's an emotional wreck. Some people enjoy it, I personally... don't. (and to clarify again, I think he's a well done character on the show. I mean I don't like him in a manner as if I was on the island I would probably quietly despise him.)

I don't even think he's an emotional wreck. He cried? So did Sawyer. So did Sayid. So did Hurley. It seems like pretty much everyone has but for some reason you associate it with Jack? For a character to be a rock for most of the series, yet have a melt down or two hardly indicates he "an emotional wreck."

Than again, we may just be defining words differently.

I would however, venture to say that the only people on the show that have had issues with Jack and despised him, quietly or otherwise, have done so because they were vying for, or jealous of, the power and leadership that had been bestowed on Jack. ;)

[mikegraham6]

Locke is kind of stupid. Not as a character, but just in the way he does things. Don't get me wrong, he might be my favorite character, but every time they do background episode on him, he makes dumb decisions. This island experience is supposed to be his redemption, but he still struggles with dumb decisions.
When it comes to killing Naomi, he didn't have to throw a knife in her back, he simply could have started yelling to distract her or something.


Who knows what the island "told" him. Maybe he HAD to kill her. Although Locke is still a good person so he couldn't bring himself to outright kill her. He threw it at her back not her head, a blow that Locke perhaps thought could be healed by the island.

don't be hatin' on my boy locke folks

[kahunablair]

OK, fair enough he has certainly cried a bit. But I don't find it whiny.


Absolutely right! Sure the guy has broken down, but I don't hear him nagging anyone about it.

don't be hatin' on my boy locke folks

Locke fans represent!!

[euchre0]

Who knows what the island "told" him. Maybe he HAD to kill her. Although Locke is still a good person so he couldn't bring himself to outright kill her. He threw it at her back not her head, a blow that Locke perhaps thought could be healed by the island.[/QUOTE]
Good point. He may have been told he had to kill her. But he might not have. Even if he had the thought that she could be healed by the island, that is in place with his character of making bad decisions. All of his back stories show him being manipulated by someone, so why wouldn't "the island?"
don't be hatin' on my boy locke folks
No hate, no hate! I like Locke a great deal! I just think that his flaw, and certainly all the main characters have established flaws, is that he is easy to manipulate and makes poor, though sympathetic, decisions.

Locke is a total bad ass.

[jasontodd]

Um... I love Locke, but I don't really buy that he didn't want to kill Naomi. I think it was pretty obvious that he was trying to put her down for good.

[itsbecca]

I don't even think he's an emotional wreck. He cried? So did Sawyer. So did Sayid. So did Hurley. It seems like pretty much everyone has but for some reason you associate it with Jack? For a character to be a rock for most of the series, yet have a melt down or two hardly indicates he "an emotional wreck."

Than again, we may just be defining words differently.

I would however, venture to say that the only people on the show that have had issues with Jack and despised him, quietly or otherwise, have done so because they were vying for, or jealous of, the power and leadership that had been bestowed on Jack. ;)

Those people have at sparse moments broken down because of great stress. Jack cries at the drop of a hat. But the whole crying thing is totally a joke, like you can see from the Youtube video. I was just being silly bringing it up. Him being an emotional wreck though? Completley serious. The man runs on a hair trigger. He gets angry, jealous, upset at the drop of a hat. He's very possessive, very stubborn and very paranoid. He's completley unbalanced in the flashbacks concerning his ex-wife. He's a drunk in the flash forwards! Emotional. Wreck.

[euchre0]

The man runs on a hair trigger. He gets angry, jealous, upset at the drop of a hat. He's very possessive, very stubborn and very paranoid.
But how is that being an emotional wreck? Those are simply character flaws and ones you seem to exaggerate, as well. Paranoid? Of what or whom?


He's completley unbalanced in the flashbacks concerning his ex-wife. He's a drunk in the flash forwards! Emotional. Wreck.
Absolutely he's a wreck in the future, in stark contrast to who he has been gor the past three seasons.

When you are going through an emotional wringer like he did with his wife, he seems to have acted pretty normal, given the circumstances. Is he supposed to be completely stoic?


I think we define terms differently. When I think of an "emotional wreck" I think of a person who 1) seems very bi polar, with lots of unpredictable mood swings or 2) a person who is a wreck, meaning they aren't working properly or are useless in most situations. Jack is always predictable and always functional, so I don't consider him to be an emotional wreck. I guess you define an "emotional wreck" as someone who gets angry or is bossy, in which case, it'd be hard to argue that he is that.

All in all, I'm just glad we've made it a few more episodes without Clair freaking out and screaming about something.

[itsbecca]

Oh he's paranoid. There's a hundred examples on the island, but I think the best would be when he thought his father was the other man to his ex-wife. And that's what I mean by "emotional wreck". He is very emotional and those emotions often impair his ability to reason. Obviously it's an interesting dichotomy, because it's not always this way. He's a doctor and has had to perform amzingly under extreme conditions, but I think life screws things with him. When he dealt with his father things went badly. When he dealt with his relationship going sou things went badly. And now he's on this island where things take a turn for the worse on a daily basis and it effects him. He's battling against the genes of his alcoholic father for goodness sake.

I don't particularly care for Ol' "MY BABY" Claire. But she seems to be getting a little more mature.

[kahunablair]

You say emotional, I say passionate.
;)

I don't particularly care for Ol' "MY BABY" Claire. But she seems to be getting a little more mature.
I was never a Claire fan. Then I saw her flashback with the accident and her mom. Suddenly I don't dislike her so much.

[six-gun]

Did we already know that the plane had been found?

[six-gun]

Is that Presbylewski from The Wire?

[six-gun]

I'm beginning to learn to love Locke again

[kahunablair]

Did we already know that the plane had been found?

Yeah.
Naomi said that last season.

[six-gun]

I love the volcanic rock set

[jon_samuelson]

I've always liked Locke. I have a great admiration for people who can take things on faith.

[jasontodd]

I'm beginning to learn to love Locke again


Yes, Locke is the greatest character on this show in my opinion

[jasontodd]

I've always liked Locke. I have a great admiration for people who can take things on faith.

Yeah, that's basically the summary of Locke's character.

He has reason to believe though considering he re-gained the ability to walk again on the island.

[six-gun]

this exorcist thing is weird

[jon_samuelson]

That may be true, but it's still possible it's just random chance that he can walk again. But he BELIEVES that the island has some greater plan, and I think that's admirable.

[jasontodd]

Was that boy from the exorcism someone we should know? Or is it just a random character used to introduce Miles?

[jon_samuelson]

And yeah, the "talks with the dead" guy is a little unusual. It seems out of place with the other things we've seen in this world.

[jasontodd]

And yeah, the "talks with the dead" guy is a little unusual. It seems out of place with the other things we've seen in this world.

I agree... all of the ghosts and afterlife stuff has kind of always been on the periphery of the show. It's never been explicit like this.

[jon_samuelson]

Desert polar bear... WTF?

[jasontodd]

Yeah, that desert scene was very strange.

[six-gun]

I don't like this Dan character

[jon_samuelson]

I do. I know plenty of people in my field with his type of naive nature. He seems familiar.

[jon_samuelson]

Sweet. I fucking love Jeff Fahey.

[six-gun]

"It's my mess, I'll clean it up"

[six-gun]

That was all pretty good, definitely a step down from last week's but not a huge downgrade.

[fred]

Why do we love Ben?

"If you're going to sleep with my daughter, you can call me Ben."

[conorkilpatrick]

I agree... all of the ghosts and afterlife stuff has kind of always been on the periphery of the show. It's never been explicit like this.

You must have missed the episodes when the ghosts are always appearing and interacting with the characters - like when Boone came back. Or last week with Charlie. :)

[conorkilpatrick]

Sweet. I fucking love Jeff Fahey.

I have loved Jeff Fahey since his great, sadly canceled series The Marshal (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112061/). Grizzled, drunk, Caribbean-dwelling Jeff Fahey is the best.

[jon_samuelson]

I just barely remember that show. I first remember him from Lawnmower Man, and though I saw it well afterwards, I thought he kicked ass in Silverado (which I think is a sadly under-appreciated movie).

[superfriend82]

Yes, Locke is the greatest character on this show in my opinion

What adout Ben?

[superfriend82]

this exorcist thing is weird

i know. He just came into that and he just know he was a drug guy. And WHF was that thing he had?!

[superfriend82]

What the heck is with Dharma and poler bears. and them being dry places?

[kahunablair]

That was a trippy episode. Good, but trippy.

What the heck is with Dharma and poler bears. and them being dry places?
Well the Bear was part of a archaeological dig right? The girl at the dig was a anthropologists. Does that mean Dharma's been around in ancient times and she's studying them?
Or could it mean the constant idea of time not being a straight line somehow lends itself to time travel? The Bear could have been a part of an experiment.

[kahunablair]

The fact that they mentioned Tunisia had me thinking.
Eko's brother's plane left Nigeria and ended up on an island in the South Pacific.
A slave ship called the Black Rock ended up on the same island.

So what's the island's connection to Africa? Is there anything else that had to do with Africa?

[superfriend82]

That was a trippy episode. Good, but trippy.


Well the Bear was part of a archaeological dig right? The girl at the dig was a anthropologists. Does that mean Dharma's been around in ancient times and she's studying them?
Or could it mean the constant idea of time not being a straight line somehow lends itself to time travel? The Bear could have been a part of an experiment.

Thats what i was thinging of. It's just strange.

[kahunablair]

One more thing, THANK GOD someone on that island asked "What is the Monster?"!!
So what if Ben claimed he didn't know, it's about time someone at least asked.

I mean, sure the Others were more of a threat and killed more people, but Smokey took out at least 2 Oceanic people.

[kahunablair]

I can't sleep so I've been reading the Pop Candy blog's Lost comments.
Someone pointed out the new gal's name: Charlotte Staples Lewis ... CS Lewis. Another famous name pops up.

[mikegraham6]

You say emotional, I say passionate.
;)

I was never a Claire fan. Then I saw her flashback with the accident and her mom. Suddenly I don't dislike her so much.

Claire is the only character on Lost who i have absolutely no interest in. Sun is a close second but she's helped by the fact that Jin is f'n awesome.

[mikegraham6]

One more thing, THANK GOD someone on that island asked "What is the Monster?"!!
So what if Ben claimed he didn't know, it's about time someone at least asked.

I mean, sure the Others were more of a threat and killed more people, but Smokey took out at least 2 Oceanic people.

i don't think Ben is lying, i don't think any of the others know about smokey. Remember when Julliet first saw it, so had no idea what it was. If we are still guessing that the moster is just another representation of the island (like the visions of Walt or Ben's mom) then sure they've seen it before just not in that form.

But yes, it's about damn time someone asked that friggin' question.

What did everyone think of the new characters? i absolutely loved them all and i think it's really intersting that one of them is a "ghost whisperer". I love Dan, although i wish he was little more sinister and less insecure.

Does the polar thing mean that they are possibly in the past? or that there is a way to travel to the past (perhaps that the "secret" that Jack and Hurley were talking about last episode)

Here's what im thinking: Lt. Daniels is sending a team of scientists/mercenaries to retrieve Ben because he wants to access to the "box". Remember the box that gives people whatever they want? i think that will play an important role. I also think that's responsible for the fake Oceanic plane found in the ocean. The Others created it to throw people off the trail of the survivors so they could experiment on the women and figure why their women can't have children.

that's all i've come up with though, and it leaves so much unanswered. My roommates and i were discussing this yesterday: do you think they will answer all the questions they put forward? there's a lot of stuff they haven't touched upon for a while (the four toed statue, what is the significance of Jack's tatoos? who are Adam and Eve from season 1?)

[six-gun]

You must have missed the episodes when the ghosts are always appearing and interacting with the characters - like when Boone came back. Or last week with Charlie. :)

I choose to make it a periphery of my show viewing ;)

[kahunablair]

i don't think Ben is lying, i don't think any of the others know about smokey. Remember when Julliet first saw it, so had no idea what it was. If we are still guessing that the moster is just another representation of the island (like the visions of Walt or Ben's mom) then sure they've seen it before just not in that form.


Excellent points, Mike. Just one thing I'm not so sure about.
Wasn't Juliet acting when she said she didn't know what Smokey was? It all went down during her little "trying to endear Kate" scheme. Once Juliet got near the security fence she knew exactly what to do to keep the monster out.

[mikegraham6]

Excellent points, Mike. Just one thing I'm not so sure about.
Wasn't Juliet acting when she said she didn't know what Smokey was? It all went down during her little "trying to endear Kate" scheme. Once Juliet got near the security fence she knew exactly what to do to keep the monster out.
hmmmmmm, i'd have to rewatch the episode but i remember her looking genuinely surprised when she first saw the monster. Maybe she just knew the force field was in place to keep "things" out

blair you've given me a reason to check out that episode again

[kahunablair]

hmmmmmm, i'd have to rewatch the episode but i remember her looking genuinely surprised when she first saw the monster. Maybe she just knew the force field was in place to keep "things" out
Maybe. As I remember it, I thought she pretty much said, "I knew there was monster, just not a what the monster is."

blair you've given me a reason to check out that episode again
Well, I'm paid commision on the episode, so that's 25 more cents! Sweet!

[mikegraham6]

Thursday is quickly beginning to rival Wednesday as my favorite weekday, congrats Lost!

Blair, what's you theory on the whole polar bear thing?

[kahunablair]

Blair, what's you theory on the whole polar bear thing?

I have no clue. I was extremely happy with the whole "they were being experimented on" explanination.
Now with the Africa bit from last night, you have to wonder.
The best I could think of is whatever it is about that island's connection to Africa, was gotten to by the polar bears when they got out. Maybe the Box is something silly like a StarGate. I have no idea.

The only thing I'm pretty sure about is the fact that Time travel was pretty much confirmed last night. Why would there be a secret Archaelogical dig for a bear that was only buried within the last 30 years?

[mikegraham6]

I have no clue. I was extremely happy with the whole "they were being experimented on" explanination.
Now with the Africa bit from last night, you have to wonder.
The best I could think of is whatever it is about that island's connection to Africa, was gotten to by the polar bears when they got out. Maybe the Box is something silly like a StarGate. I have no idea.

The only thing I'm pretty sure about is the fact that Time travel was pretty much confirmed last night. Why would there be a secret Archaelogical dig for a bear that was only buried within the last 30 years?

You're right Blair, there has to be some sort of connection to Africa, possibly a space/time portal through which Echo's brother's plane and the black rock travelled.
After last night (with the introduction of the ghost whisperer) it feels like Lost is now going to have to go all out and really address the supernatural/sci-fi elements of the show. They are going to have to bring them to the foreground (rather than the perifery) pretty damn soon. I can see how that would be hard step because you now as soon as it's addressed outright you know they will lose viewers (all the people who don't like sci-fi)

[kahunablair]

I could really see people dropping off the show after they get an explanation that is too far out there.
The funny thing is, when I read your post, the first thing that came to my mind was Y.
Sure the explanation was there, but because it didn't match up with people's theories they hated it. Same thing with the fact that the story isn't just about the men dying. It's about the characters.
I get the same vibe with Lost. It's not just about the mystery and the island.

[euchre0]

do you think they will answer all the questions they put forward?
Nope! There may be some kind of blanket answer, but I don't think that allof the mysteries will be explicitly answered.

there's a lot of stuff they haven't touched upon for a while (the four toed statue, what is the significance of Jack's tatoos? who are Adam and Eve from season 1?)

Can you remind me about Adam and Eve and the statue? I don't recall those things.

[kahunablair]

Can you remind me about Adam and Eve and the statue? I don't recall those things.

Adam and Eve were two mummified corspes found in the cave way back when the Survivors wanted to move off the beach into the caves.
The theory that's imerged about them is that because of the Time travel thing that's loopy on the island, Adam and Eve will end up being two people we already know. Mainly Jack and Kate or Penny and Desmond.

The end of Season 2, Sayid saw a four toed foot that was part of a much larger statue. It was pretty much just one more peice of ruins on the island. The writers said they put it in there to show that there have been people on that island for a Long time.

[conorkilpatrick]

Adam and Eve were two mummified corspes found in the cave way back when the Survivors wanted to move off the beach into the caves.
The theory that's imerged about them is that because of the Time travel thing that's loopy on the island, Adam and Eve will end up being two people we already know. Mainly Jack and Kate or Penny and Desmond.

http://www.lostisagame.com/photos/316/adam_eve.jpg

The end of Season 2, Sayid saw a four toed foot that was part of a much larger statue. It was pretty much just one more peice of ruins on the island. The writers said they put it in there to show that there have been people on that island for a Long time.

http://tv.beloblog.com/archives/Lost%20foot%20statue.jpg

[kahunablair]

And that ladies and gentleman, is why Conor is the man.
I could find good shots online that I could get here at work. Thank you, Mr Kilpatrick.

[mikegraham6]

Adam and Eve were two mummified corspes found in the cave way back when the Survivors wanted to move off the beach into the caves.
The theory that's imerged about them is that because of the Time travel thing that's loopy on the island, Adam and Eve will end up being two people we already know. Mainly Jack and Kate or Penny and Desmond.

dude, you just blew my friggin' mind:)

[euchre0]

thanks Conor!


The theory that's imerged about them is that because of the Time travel thing that's loopy on the island, Adam and Eve will end up being two people we already know. Mainly Jack and Kate or Penny and Desmond.


Hmmm. That's interesting. Although, it could be explained easily like how Uncle Rico ended up in a Dharma van full of beer. Seemed like a mysterious circumstance when they first found the van, but really, he just got killed by Ben. Those bodies could just be two people who were killed earlier...right?

Were the bodies ever called Adam and Eve in the show, or is that just an internet name?

[kahunablair]

That's exactly the point Euchero. It could be something as simple as they were Dharma people that didn't get killed when Ben and the Others gassed them. The couple could have ran and hid in the caves.

Both theories fit into this twisted show, that's the beauty of it.

Were the bodies ever called Adam and Eve in the show, or is that just an internet name?
Yeah. I think it was either Jack or Locke that called them it.