"Good" Comics That You Just Don't Get? Fess up! [Archive]

henrik

02-01-2008, 09:59 PM

I recently bought DC: New Frontier Absolute Edition and while I found it a rather pleasant read I didn't think it was the greatest thing ever.
I think kind f like Ron and Sandman I can appreciate the work put into it. I think it looks absolutely stunning but storywise I guess it just wasn't my cup of tea. As I said, I liked it. Just not that much. It was a little too much like the movie Independance Day in the end.

Then I heard Conor talk about how he couldn't finish Love&Rockets even though it is considered the "Watchmen of indies".

So I put the question forward to all of you guys here on the forum. What critically acclaimed works of comic don't you get?
Do you find Watchmen pretentious and boring?
Do you think Frank Miller portrayed Batman horribly in Dark Knight Returns?
Scott Pilgrim didn't tickle your fancy?
Preacher's just for shock value?

Come on. Fess up!

kwok_talk

02-01-2008, 10:13 PM

Books/series I didn’t really get or like as much as the hype:

-Watchmen
-The Authority
-Transmetropolitan
-Preacher

paper

02-01-2008, 10:45 PM

Watchmen (I respect the craft; I don't enjoy reading it)
Kingdom Come
Long Halloween
Invincible

optimus187prime

02-01-2008, 10:51 PM

Watchmen (I respect the craft; I don't enjoy reading it)

Thats the way I feel, I just re-read it, and just felt like it was too compressed or something. I REALLY dont like the prose that is inserted after each "single", it slows the pace of the story for me. This is just my opinion so back off !

xyzzy

02-01-2008, 10:53 PM

So many:

Sandman - Read 4 trades, didn't care to continue
Preacher - Read 4 trades, same
100 Bullets - Read 3 trades, same
Transmetropolitan - Read 2 trades, same
Exterminators - Read 1 trade, same
Human Target - Read 1 trade, same
52 - Read 8 issues, same
V for Vendetta - Good, but not great
Crisis on Infinite Earths - Just god-awful. The narrative is a mess.
Scott Pilgrim - I mean, c'mon... you guys like this? Really?

No big deal. Different strokes, ya know.

optimus187prime

02-01-2008, 11:40 PM

So many:

Scott Pilgrim - I mean, c'mon... you guys like this? Really?

No big deal. Different strokes, ya know.

For starters I havent read this but after looking at it in the local borders, I felt the same. I am shocked that book is so recommended, guess I will have to try it then :p

kahunablair

02-01-2008, 11:47 PM

Preacher's just for shock value?

That's my big one.

esophagus

02-02-2008, 12:03 AM

52 - Read 8 issues, sameI liked it straight through, but I've heard a lot of people who said they didn't like it until somewhere near the middle. Still, I don't believe you sohuld ever make a sizable investment in something that fails to grab you 8 issues in. Not when there's so much good stuff out there.
Crisis on Infinite Earths - Just god-awful. The narrative is a mess.Yeah, I appreciate it for the story, and give it credit that it achieved what it did when it did. If that were written today, I'd call it bad dialogue. It wasn't though. Not the best read, I mostly just give it credit for remaining so crucial to DC.

Edit: My picks:
Kingdom Come (Fun art and redesigns, but I didn't get it past that)
Fables (I know it'll catch me if I keep going, but I don't feel the need to make that kind of investment when the first two were no good)
The Ultimates (I liked it. I don't see why anyone loved it)

itsbecca

02-02-2008, 01:54 AM

I REALLY dont like the prose that is inserted after each "single", it slows the pace of the story for me. This is just my opinion so back off !

I enjoy the story that the prose brings, but I can't read it in sync with the rest of the book for this same reason. My head is in entirely different modes when I read prose and when I read comics. I can't switch back and forth like that. When I come to it it feels like pulling out the Sunday Paper and going from reading Garfield to trying to read Prince Valiant. I can't force myself to do it.

(That said I read the pirate story everytime)

mikegraham6

02-02-2008, 01:55 AM

Dark. Knight. Returns.

there, i said it. Batman: Year One is sooooooooooooooo much better

EDIT: I didn't hate DKR, i just don't think it's worth the hype and praise it garners

itsbecca

02-02-2008, 02:01 AM

optimus187prime

02-02-2008, 02:12 AM

I enjoy the story that the prose brings, but I can't read it in sync with the rest of the book for this same reason. My head is in entirely different modes when I read prose and when I read comics. I can't switch back and forth like that. When I come to it it feels like pulling out the Sunday Paper and going from reading Garfield to trying to read Prince Valiant. I can't force myself to do it.

(That said I read the pirate story everytime)

You described it better than I could but yeah that is exactly how I feel.

optimus187prime

02-02-2008, 02:14 AM

Dark. Knight. Returns.

there, i said it. Batman: Year One is sooooooooooooooo much better
garners

I like Year One better than DKR too.

jon_samuelson

02-02-2008, 03:10 AM

Batman - Arkham Asylum. I can't stand that book. It's just way too... abstract for my taste. And I generally dislike Grant Morrison's stuff. I find him far to cynical.

ryan79

02-02-2008, 05:23 AM

>Watchmen< I tried...I really did. I reread it ignoring the pirate stuff...still didn't like it. Reading it just felt like a chore. I didn't connect with any of the characters so I really didn't care what happened to them.

esophagus

02-02-2008, 05:24 AM

Batman - Arkham Asylum. I can't stand that book. It's just way too... abstract for my taste. And I generally dislike Grant Morrison's stuff. I find him far to cynical.I think a lot of people felt that way. Personally, I loved it. I'm a huge fan of Batman's Rogues Gallery, and that was an excellent showcase of them.

ryan79

02-02-2008, 05:31 AM

I think a lot of people felt that way. Personally, I loved it. I'm a huge fan of Batman's Rogues Gallery, and that was an excellent showcase of them.

I strongly second that.

acomicbookgirl

02-02-2008, 05:31 AM

Scott Pilgrim - I mean, c'mon... you guys like this? Really?

I do. Lighthearted fun. I read the first one the other day and loved it. Currently reading the 2nd one.

V for Vendetta - Good, but not great

My favorite Alan Moore story.

Crisis on Infinite Earths - Just god-awful. The narrative is a mess.

First DC story I read. Had to ask a TON of questions to my friends but I love George Perez art. ;)

Watchmen, i've looked through the Absolute and i've read the trade how many times, I like it but can't bring myself to buy it...

Blankets is another book that I want to like but can't...

The Filth has left me scratching my head..

euchre0

02-02-2008, 06:19 AM

Dark. Knight. Returns.

there, i said it. Batman: Year One is sooooooooooooooo much better

I am with you 100%! I've never liked Dark Knight Returns. First of all, I've never liked a single panel of art by Frank Miller, so that's a strike against it. Second, It came out the year I was born, so it didn't change or redirect Batman for me. it's a decent enough story, but I just don't get why it is so revered...especially with that art.

I jsut read Year One for the first time last week and sweet sassy malassy was that a good Batman story. Then again, I am a sucker or a good Jim Gordon story.

gungadin

02-02-2008, 08:13 AM

Oh man... Finally...

DC: The New Frontier. Honestly? It was okay. I loved the art (cannot tell you how much I loved the art) but the story really seemed to fall flat. Maybe I just need to read it again, but I really did not like it that much.

Dark Knight Returns AND Batman: Year One. This is really kinda amazing, because I love Batman, but those two books aren't... it. Once again, I plan to go back and read them again, but for the most part, they're just really not for me.

League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. Damn I thought this was just okay. I didn't revile it (none of this I reviled) but I really, really felt it was super overhyped... But that's okay, I plan on rereading this one again too.

Crisis on Infinite Earths. The narrative style was not my fav, and they really, really, really did not need to make this twelve issues. This woulda been better with SO much filler cut out. Damn was that book just straight up confusing.

henrik

02-02-2008, 08:51 AM

Superman: Red Son. I love contained stories, I like elseworlds, I like Mark Millar. This story was straight up was horrible. Just so fucking cute how things were and who everyone was and it was awful. I hated it.

Maybe it's because I'm european and had a socialistic upbringing (we're all stinking commies over here) but I love Red Son :)

humphrey-lee

02-02-2008, 09:04 AM

Books/series I didn’t really get or like as much as the hype:

-Watchmen
-The Authority
-Transmetropolitan
-Preacher

Wow, maybe one of those I could see, but all of them? Yeah, I'd just kill myself.

For me, All Star Superman. Sorry, I just don't mess my pants over Silver Ageish stories. It's well written and drawn though, for sure.

xyzzy

02-02-2008, 01:18 PM

Yeah, I appreciate it for the story, and give it credit that it achieved what it did when it did. If that were written today, I'd call it bad dialogue. It wasn't though. Not the best read, I mostly just give it credit for remaining so crucial to DC.

Don't get me wrong. I appreciate the historical role that Crisis played. I just think that the story is awful. At least the one contained in the TPB. Plot threads/characters pop in and out without any explanation. The story as a whole is muddled. Perhaps if you were reading all of the DC comics at the time, it was different, but for me, now, reading without an abundance of DC history knowledge, it's just not very good.

optimus187prime

02-02-2008, 01:45 PM

I think a lot of people felt that way. Personally, I loved it. I'm a huge fan of Batman's Rogues Gallery, and that was an excellent showcase of them.

I 3rd this statement I love the feel of the book

xyzzy

02-02-2008, 02:10 PM

Blankets is another book that I want to like but can't...

Oh, yeah. Blankets. That's another one.

Jimmy Corrigan, the Smartest Boy on Earth. Great art, amazing design/layout - terrible story.

jon_samuelson

02-03-2008, 12:14 AM

I knew I'd be alone (or nearly so) about Arkham Asylum. It's just ny nature not to be much of a fan of "ART", which is certainly what I see Arkham as.

I'm gonna second Henrik's viewpoint on Red Son (though I'm not a heathen commie :p). I really enjoyed that book. It seemed to suggest that, in a nature v. nurture sense, there is just inherent goodness in Superman. Yes, it was fostered by the Kents in the regular DC Universe, but that it's just there inherently as well. I can certainly see the viewpoint of not enjoying the cutesy connections about time travel, and who people really were. That was definitely my least favorite aspect of the story. This is also, by far, my favorite Mark Millar penned story. I usually get an almost Ennis-like feeling that Millar practically hates superheros because he so frequently makes them into assholes, or treats them like shit, and I didn't get that vibe in Red Son.

zombox

02-03-2008, 01:39 AM

esophagus

02-03-2008, 03:06 AM

Transmetro, hated it.
Sandman, it's okay... not legendary.
Any of the new Green Arrow (since 2000) stuff... was so much better when it was written the first time by O'Neal.
52, hated it.
New Frontier, bored me.
The Authority... really was just for shock value. Period.
Suburban Glamour... wha?
Superman, pretty much everything.
What else... so much...Basically what you're saying is you hate comics. That's okay. ;)

I'm actually surprised that there are people who dont' like Blankets. Best. Book. Ever.

jon_samuelson

02-03-2008, 03:10 AM

Jesus, Zombox... Are there any comics you DO like?

jasontodd

02-03-2008, 03:19 AM

I think I'm the opposite of most people, in that I love DKR but I'm not a huge fan of Batman: Year 1. BY1 is a little boring for my taste.

I also agree with most of you in that I think that New Frontier looks beautiful, but it's a little disparate with its story lines.

Also on my list would be:

League of Extraordinary Gentlemen 2 & 3: I loved the first one but...

Messiah Complex

House of M

Civil War

tad

02-03-2008, 03:21 AM

What a weird feeling reading this thread, "How can you not like that?"

Having said that, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen was interesting but I dropped it an issue or two into its second arc.

BTW, you can't flip through Scott Pilgrim and get a sense of it. But I can see how it's not to everyone's taste.

esophagus

02-03-2008, 03:29 AM

House of MI think I missed this being considered good comics. Add that to my list if it is.

xyzzy

02-03-2008, 03:31 AM

Basically what you're saying is you hate comics. That's okay. ;)

I'm actually surprised that there are people who dont' like Blankets. Best. Book. Ever.

Looks great, but to me it just came off as whiney and self-involved.

Oh, I also don't care for Box Office Poison.

But just to show that I don't hate auto-bio comics, I really like La Perdida, Persepolis, Fortune & Glory, et al.

jasontodd

02-03-2008, 03:35 AM

I think I missed this being considered good comics. Add that to my list if it is.

Esophagus, you're probably right. This got pretty mixed reviews. Ditto for Civil War. My bad.

gungadin

02-03-2008, 05:10 AM

I think I missed this being considered good comics. Add that to my list if it is.

I love House of M. I love it.

neb

02-03-2008, 06:04 AM

Superman: Red Son. I love contained stories, I like elseworlds, I like Mark Millar. This story was straight up was horrible. Just so fucking cute how things were and who everyone was and it was awful. I hated it.

I LOVED Red Son. Elseworlds books are always so much fun, and I thought that Millar had an interesting take on what would happen is Superman had grown up a commie. Batman in his Elmer Fudd winter cap was quite possibly the best part about the book.

I think a lot of people felt that way. Personally, I loved it. I'm a huge fan of Batman's Rogues Gallery, and that was an excellent showcase of them.

The best part about this book is the Joker. When his psychiatrist is explaining his condition, I was just sitting thinking, "Yeah, that's exactly how it should be expressed in words.

For me, All Star Superman. Sorry, I just don't mess my pants over Silver Ageish stories. It's well written and drawn though, for sure.

I agree with you here. I bought the first HC and thought it was merely "meh." Some of the issues were really great while the whole "Superman is slowly dying" thing just didn't do it for me. Quietly's art was nothing short of superb. Who knows, maybe on a reread I'll enjoy it more.

Come on. Fess up!

A big one for me on this list would have to be Jeffery Brown's Clumsy. While I appreciated the intimacy of this book and just how raw it was, I read most of it thinking, "Man, this guy's a whiny wimp!" Now, I can see why people would love this book, and one of the guys at my LCS swears by his series/trilogy of books, but they just don't speak to me.

esophagus

02-03-2008, 06:42 AM

The best part about this book is the Joker. When his psychiatrist is explaining his condition, I was just sitting thinking, "Yeah, that's exactly how it should be expressed in words..
Second to that being Two Face for me.

zombox

02-03-2008, 03:51 PM

Jesus, Zombox... Are there any comics you DO like?

LOL. Yea. I love Invincible, Walking Dead, Fables, Y, Watchmen, DKR, Batman: Year One, Preacher, most Hellboy, a lot of the mid to early 200 Green Lantern, JLA from the same period, Astonishing X-Men, CLaremont X-Men from late 70's - early 90's....

hansolo69

02-04-2008, 02:46 AM

Seems to be the theme, so I'll just keep with it.

Watchmen.

It's really interesting, just waayy too slow of a read, and I like to take my time with my books.

nickmaynard

02-04-2008, 04:03 PM

I recently bought DC: New Frontier Absolute Edition and while I found it a rather pleasant read I didn't think it was the greatest thing ever.

i think the reason people like this book so much is that people who are big fans of green lantern or flash had been screaming for good stories with them for years. and this is a pretty good hal jordan story, one of the best. if you're not into them, its not as big a deal, i think.

timmywood-

02-04-2008, 05:37 PM

I love Grant Morrison and I love the JLA but I wasn't thrilled with his run on it like everyone else was.

jjclpell

03-31-2008, 11:46 PM

Dark. Knight. Returns.

Completely agree on DKR. I know it must be good, but I just do not get it. On my list is Annihilation, X-Men: Days of Future Past, Earth X

conorkilpatrick

04-01-2008, 12:35 AM

On my list is Annihilation, X-Men: Days of Future Past, Earth X

I don't think Earth X is widely considered to be "good".

luthor

04-01-2008, 04:01 AM

A lot of people are going to hate me for it...but the only time I've ever liked Daredevil was a short stint that Karl Kesel did on the character. Everything else I just think...people like this whiny bitch?

I'm in the middle of reading the Paul Jenkins/Jae Lee Inhumans book and I'm just finding it very painful.

murphy1d

04-01-2008, 04:06 AM

Ya know, this may not be exactly the same thing but here goes...

So I finished The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy last night and when I was done I felt like "heh."

Nothing was laugh out loud funny (not like Good Omens). Nothing was "trippy wild turns-back-on-itself logic" (like Palaniuk's Rant). It was barely even a fun romp through the future (unlike Stephenson's Snow Crash, which rocked).

All I got from it was the origin of Radiohead's Paranoid Android, the number 42 inside jokes, and "thanks for all the fish" quotes.

So sue me. I was underwhelmed.

I am reading Ender's Game next. Here's hoping the hype wasn't overblown.

paper

04-01-2008, 04:30 AM

Hitchhiker's is probably a case where you've already seen the fruits of its innovation prior to seeing the actual tree. So you're not as wowed as those who were inspired by it and, in some cases, went on to continue its legacy through their own works.

jimski

04-01-2008, 04:49 AM

I don't think Earth X is widely considered to be "good".

Boy, I was reading Astro City when I returned to comics and heard Earth X was in the same ballpark. It nearly cut short my nascent return in the span of a few pages. Yeugh.

Prepare a cross to nail me to, but I read Grant Morrison's New X-Men, and he can basically kiss my plebe ass.

jmstump

04-01-2008, 05:27 AM

I find it easier to post the Writers as I started to think of books that are good I didn't like and there was a theme.

Grant Morrison - I feel like he's the Stephen king of comics. I love how he starts a story, but hate how he ends them.

Alan Moore - Never understood why he's so well beloved, I believe he has intimidate all of us into buying books. I mean I've seen the guy, his appearance alone has scared me into buying or reading some of his books. Especially when he was on The Simpsons. I'm serious the man really does intimidate the hell out of me.

Identity Crisis - I enjoyed it, but thought it wasn't the best thing on the planet. Maybe I'll reread it one of these days and change my mind.

Crisis on Infinite Earths - I was skimming and noticed someone mentioned the narrative, I agree it was jumpy.

War is Hell First Flight of the Phantom Eagle - Still find it funny that iFanboy liked this for all the reasons I didn't. I plan on giving this a second chance. I mean so many people liked this I feel I should.

Sandman - I have not read much of this series, but it wasn't for me.

Also if House of M and Civil War can be counted as "good" then yes. I hated both of these books. Civil War is why there is only one book from Marvel that takes place in 616 that I read, Captain America. I suggest if you didn't like Civil War that you read the rewrite someone did online, All Punisher does is swear and Wolverine only says Snikt and Bub. I'll see if I can find the link later when I'm not at work.

ruo21

04-01-2008, 07:22 AM

Dark. Knight. Returns.

there, i said it. Batman: Year One is sooooooooooooooo much better

EDIT: I didn't hate DKR, i just don't think it's worth the hype and praise it garners

I'm of the completely opposite opinion. Year One has its merits, however its sheer entertainment value is low. I thought the story was interesting, but nothing groundbreaking. DKR's atmosphere I just found amazing, whereas Year One's seemed bland.

30 Days Of Night. I'm not sure if this qualifies, but I strongly dislike this series. The art and characters did nothing for me whatsoever.

henrik

04-01-2008, 09:31 PM

Ya know, this may not be exactly the same thing but here goes...

So I finished The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy last night and when I was done I felt like "heh."

I bought a collection of the first four Hithhikers books in the early nineties after meeting Douglas Adams at a book signing. I barely finished the first one, not really getting it at all and I have yet to read the last three (now four) parts.
I still claim to have read all of them stating they're some of my absolute favorite books just because you really "have to" have read them :o

esophagus

04-01-2008, 09:38 PM

30 Days Of Night. I'm not sure if this qualifies, but I strongly dislike this series. The art and characters did nothing for me whatsoever.Don't think many people liked the story. I certainly didn't. The art was ASTOUNDING though. Ben Templesmith is definitely a favorite artist of mine.

kahunablair

04-01-2008, 09:44 PM

I didn't get Preacher. That of course led to the very interesting Preacher thread being started.

euchre0

04-01-2008, 10:00 PM

I don't get lots of Grant Morrison stuff. Then again I like a lot of his stuff, but sometimes I get the feeling it is an "Emperor's new Clothes" situation in that no one understands but because of his status everyone says "Brilliant!"

I also don't like a great deal of Frank Miller stuff. "Oooh, he's hard and gritty!" Blah. And his ark looks like he was drawing while holding the pencil in his mouth.

valoharth

04-01-2008, 10:11 PM

Alan Moore - Never understood why he's so well beloved, I believe he has intimidate all of us into buying books. I mean I've seen the guy, his appearance alone has scared me into buying or reading some of his books. Especially when he was on The Simpsons. I'm serious the man really does intimidate the hell out of me.

Alan Moore does this subliminal thing with comics that can be hard to notice. They guy really loves the art form of comics and it does come out in his work which makes it a joy for me to read; however, there are some things that he wrote that just stank. Wildworld, Moore's take on the Wildstorm universe, was horrid. Once story was fantastic in it but the stuff surrounding it just made my eyes want to bleed.

And House of M, I enjoyed this series. Granted some of the characterizations were off but I think Bendis nailed Spiderman in this story and I think the other thing that made this good is the whole arc cleaned house.

As for over hyped
Phonogram

conorkilpatrick

04-01-2008, 10:12 PM

As for over hyped...

Oh, no...

esophagus

04-01-2008, 10:16 PM

Phonogram felt a bit full of itself at times. Overall I really like it though. A lot of the holier-than-thou feelings are warranted, as that's just the way the character is.

labor_days

04-01-2008, 10:22 PM

"Oh, no", indeed.

labor_days

04-01-2008, 10:28 PM

Phonogram felt a bit full of itself at times. Overall I really like it though. A lot of the holier-than-thou feelings are warranted, as that's just the way the character is.

And considering Britpop itself was predicated on being full of itself ("Me and Jesus Christ have the same initials") and being holier than thou...

Lot of awful opinions running around this thread here.

conorkilpatrick

04-01-2008, 10:33 PM

I'd like to clarify I was not referring to Phonogram when I said "Oh no..." rather the use of the term "over hyped" to describe anything.

labor_days

04-01-2008, 10:48 PM

And I'd like to clarify that I was intentionally being cheeky and was referring to Phonogram. ;)

valoharth

04-01-2008, 11:01 PM

I'd like to clarify I was not referring to Phonogram when I said "Oh no..." rather the use of the term "over hyped" to describe anything.

Sorry, got a bit rushed when typing it. It should read: "I just don't see whats so good about it". Phonogram is far from being a hyped book at all though.

tad

04-01-2008, 11:58 PM

Maybe I told this before but Ward Kimball was one of Walt Disney's "Nine Old Men," the key animators that made his movies what they were. Disney also called him a genius in print. I got to work with Ward on an Epcot project. But before I got to Disney Ward stepped into a room filled with young animators and trainees, animation faboys as it were, and with a caricatured sneer said, "Walt's dead and you missed it." Then left. Ward had an interesting sense of humor.

Anyway, there are some books whose impact on the industry is hard to understand. Dark Knight Returns is one of them. I think it really stands up but you really can't understand how different it was in 1986. Denny O'Neil, Jim Aparo, Neil Adams and others had done great Batman work but the myth was painted on a much lighter canvas. Actually, Batman didn't feel mythic at all. He still wasn't that far from Super Friends. So it's a pivotal work, not just because of its quality, but because it had an effect on the entire industry.

And the only way to get the best Hitchhiker's Guide is to listen to the original radio shows but if you've read the books those are probably spoiled.

esophagus

04-02-2008, 01:41 AM

And considering Britpop itself was predicated on being full of itself ("Me and Jesus Christ have the same initials") and being holier than thou...

Lot of awful opinions running around this thread here.Did you miss the part where I said I really liked it?

labor_days

04-02-2008, 03:43 AM

Did you miss the part where I said I really liked it?

I know you're a fan. Was being cheeky and poking you a bit. ;)

esophagus

04-02-2008, 03:47 AM

I know you're a fan. Was being cheeky and poking you a bit. ;)Poke this.:cool:

So, is David a superhero? With his powers and all?

I kid. Of course he is. David is a wizard to rival Harry Potter. Well, if taste accounts for anything.

meccaed

04-02-2008, 04:13 AM

Watchmen! Its not that its bad, its just SO. DENSE. Its hard for me to take it all in, and then effectively decided whether or not it was even good or not.

humphrey-lee

04-02-2008, 08:47 AM

I guess right now since it's such a "media darling" I'm going to go with the GL books. Look, I love some random Sci-Fi/Superhero Kablooey!! nonsense as much as the next guy when it's done really well, but it's rarely anything more than just a good adrenaline rush, which is fine but hardly something I find worth getting rabid about like people have over those books since Sinestro Corps hit. Again, mind you, I recognize the book is well done smash 'em uppy goodness and I even will probably buy the HCs at some point, but I don't get at all how people are going nuts and hyperboling the fuck out of the book with "Best book everz!" rants and whatnot. It'd be like me trying to convince someone that Live Free or Die Hard was the best movie I saw last year. Just, no...

joncrites

04-02-2008, 03:40 PM

The Jim Lee 'For Tomorrow' Superman run. After reading and enjoying 'Batman: Hush', I thought 'For Tomorrow' was weak.

Bet we won't see an Absolute Edition of this . . .

esophagus

04-02-2008, 04:36 PM

I remember enjoying the For Tomorrow art. Not sure how I felt about the book itself.

mikegraham6

04-02-2008, 04:41 PM

the book didn't really make much sense. It was almost impossible to understand if you were reading it monthly. It's a little easier to follow if you read in one chunk, but it's still not very good

whoiseric

04-03-2008, 04:44 AM

Someone mentioned Jimmy Corrigan: The Smartest Kid On Earth a few pages back. I started reading it and got a good quarter of the way into it, but just wasn't feeling it. I stopped reading kind of out of frustration. A couple of months later I started from the beginning and I enjoyed the comic immensely. It is now one my favorite comics ever and probably the pinnacle of what I think comics should be. Everyone should seriously give it a read or re-read.

esophagus

04-03-2008, 04:48 AM

Is The Tourist well liked? I would assume its at least somewhat popular. It's a Brian Wood book. If it is, add that to my list.

decepticon

04-03-2008, 06:50 AM

To be honest, I love pretty much all the "Holy Grail" stuff that come to mind as universally considered good.

Some more sketchy ones I've seen thrown out there here that people are labeling "good" like Civil War and House of M I'll say I didn't like much.

valoharth

04-03-2008, 08:54 AM

Okay, a good writer that I just don't get, Clarmont. I've read stuff from the best of his career to Xtreme Xmen and well... I just don't like his style. I will give him credit he can come up with great ideas and gave the X-men a great back story but... I fall asleep if I read more then a issue of his at a time.

mikegraham6

04-03-2008, 11:56 AM

horatio616

04-03-2008, 09:00 PM

"Good" stuff I don't love:

Sandman (Only read the first trade.)

Invincible (Read the first trade and it didn't quite do it for me, but I hear the second one is MUCH better.)

Animal Man (Read the first trade. Way too preachy for me.)

Green Lantern/Green Arrow (Read some reprints in the 80s. Thought it was corny even back then. Recently reread them. Even worse now.)

Batman: The Long Halloween (Gimmicky and overplotted.)

I plan on finishing Sandman and catching up on Invincible asap.

paper

04-03-2008, 09:13 PM

horatio616

04-03-2008, 09:33 PM

Fables. I should like it. But I do not.

Captain America. Haven't read a great deal of it. What little I have read does not warrant an Omnibus purchase...yet. I really, really, really don't like the art.

Long Halloween. Not even the art.

Invincible.

I keep trying to read Powers (I have the first big hardcover) and it is not grabbing me.

Hmm, the first Powers trade is probably my favorite. If you don't like it now, you probably never will. A few people I've gotten to read it just couldn't get past the art.

I would think that Fables is right up your alley.

esophagus

04-03-2008, 09:34 PM

Captain America. Haven't read a great deal of it. What little I have read does not warrant an Omnibus purchase...yet. I really, really, really don't like the art. I love the art. That's just taste, I guess.

I think if Captain America had been published as an independent series, through Image or something, with new characters and the same plot I probably wouldn't have read it. I'd recognize it as good, but not really be into it. I really just keep coming back because of the great things it is doing for modern superhero comics.

horatio616

04-03-2008, 09:48 PM

I forgot Identity Crisis. I don't enjoy Metzler's comic writing at all. His captions kill me.

esophagus

04-03-2008, 09:52 PM

Paper, I actually agree with your Fables and Invincible picks. Invincible wasn't great the first hardcover, and was better but still not good enough to make me buy the third with the second hardcover.

I haven't read Powers or Long Halloween yet. Haven't read Long Halloween because I'm not expecting to like it.

luthor

04-03-2008, 09:59 PM

I read Powers all out of order and I'm very glad I did. I think the second trade is much better then the first. If the first had been where I started, I really don't think I'd still be following the book today. Powers is one of the "big 3" that I use to get people into comics, rarely fails(Walking Dead and Invincible are the others).

iSteve

04-03-2008, 10:56 PM

One word - Checkmate. There, I said it. I just don't "get" it.

mikegraham6

04-03-2008, 11:20 PM

valoharth

04-03-2008, 11:33 PM

One word - Checkmate. There, I said it. I just don't "get" it.

Ditto

sirchrissypoo

04-04-2008, 04:13 AM

I've actually said this to a few of my friends before, but I think Watchmen is just too boring. I don't feel any connection to the characters, I don't care for the story, and the art is just meh. The only character I really like is Rorschach. I think he is pretty well written, but as far as the rest of the book goes, I just don't really care about any of it.

esophagus

04-04-2008, 05:06 PM

Oh, and I fogot to mention my dislike of everything Harvey Pekar. There's certainly talent there, but he is such a one trick pony. He shows up in every bookhe writes, even the ones that aren't autobiographical. It just got very old, very fast.

horatio616

04-04-2008, 06:20 PM

mikegraham6

04-04-2008, 06:35 PM

I've actually never read those. Might you say that he's the Woody Allen of comics?
i've never read them either but i've seen the American Splendor movie and if it's any indication as to what the comics version of Harvey Pekar is like, im not interested, the guy's a douch

conorkilpatrick

04-04-2008, 07:35 PM

American Splendor is raw and genius. True indie comics.

horatio616

04-04-2008, 08:37 PM

American Splendor is raw and genius. True indie comics.

So he's the Neneh Cherry of Comics?

I've always meant to pick this up but there's always been stuff I've wanted more. I haven't even read Maus II yet!

esophagus

04-04-2008, 09:23 PM

American Splendor is raw and genius. True indie comics.Conor speaks the truth. I really liekd the American Splendor comics.

Then you have The Quitter. It's a story about him as a kid. Our Cancer Year is a story of Harvey's battle with cancer. Then he has Macedonia. It's about another girl's time in Macedonia. The problem? Well, sometime during this trip she gets in contact with Pekar to write the book. He includes all the bits about himself in it too. I haven't read The Michael Malice story but it is supposed to be his attempt at nonautobiographical fiction. I'm actually looking to read it, because he really does do good stuff. Just seems like a one trick pony.

six-gun

04-04-2008, 11:19 PM

I don't know if this fits or not, but I really dislike George Perez's artwork

labor_days

04-04-2008, 11:47 PM

I don't know if this fits or not, but I really dislike George Perez's artwork
You mock all that I love.

http://i27.tinypic.com/2wdy1dy.jpg

horatio616

04-05-2008, 01:10 AM

I don't know if this fits or not, but I really dislike George Perez's artwork

It used to be much much better. Like Byrne, his style changed and I don't think it was for the better.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/taintedlunch/260px-Infinity_Gauntlet_1.jpg

xyzzy

04-05-2008, 01:18 AM

gungadin

04-05-2008, 01:54 AM

Brubaker's Captain America. Don't get me wrong, it's not bad, by any means. But after going through two trades, I don't really see what the hubub is about. I'd say it's slightly above average.

This opinion may be influenced by the fact that I had no prior knowledge of Captain America, Bucky or any of these people before reading the book.

You have to make it to the second part of the story. The first two trades are good... but it gets WAY better... Maybe I'm wrong, but I agree with you at least. I read the first trades and thought it was good. I loved Cap and seeing him in action... But when I started picking up the singles and went in "real time" it was so, so good. Ride the wave. If you go back and listen to the early eps of the POW podast, you see that Conor talks about liking it, but it doesn't come up as just "QUALITY AMAZING" until issue 25.

conorkilpatrick

04-05-2008, 02:20 AM

If you go back and listen to the early eps of the POW podast, you see that Conor talks about liking it, but it doesn't come up as just "QUALITY AMAZING" until issue 25.

I like the pre-25 issues more than the post-25 issues. But just slightly.

itsbecca

04-05-2008, 04:36 AM

American Splendor is raw and genius. True indie comics.

Oh. You are lovely indeed. I can say that American Splendor truly, truly brought me into comics back in the day. Although, to be fair, I haven't read much of it outside of his work with R Crumb... because he was really half the equation for myself.

six-gun

04-05-2008, 05:02 AM

You mock all that I love.

Except we agree on about everything else:rolleyes:

gungadin

04-05-2008, 06:20 AM

I like the pre-25 issues more than the post-25 issues. But just slightly.

I actually get that. I think it's interesting in how they're both good, but for completely different reasons. I have yet to completely finish the pre-25... But they still kick super ass...

valoharth

04-05-2008, 12:59 PM

mikegraham6

04-05-2008, 08:35 PM

Nightly News- there I said it! It took me two weeks to wade through this trade and I can tell you what made me not care for it, the layouts. Something about the layouts mixed with Hickman's art just gave me a headach. The story is decient, I think its just a mix of Thank You for Smoking and Fight Club. I do like Hickman's new book Pax mostly because it has a story that I never thought about but feels like it's been around for a while.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t268/mikegraham6/f_CryingBearm_42eb3d8.gif

mattk

04-05-2008, 11:42 PM

Nightly News- there I said it! It took me two weeks to wade through this trade and I can tell you what made me not care for it, the layouts. Something about the layouts mixed with Hickman's art just gave me a headach. The story is decient, I think its just a mix of Thank You for Smoking and Fight Club. I do like Hickman's new book Pax mostly because it has a story that I never thought about but feels like it's been around for a while.

It is a tough comparison to Pax. I still think it is a solid standalone, just nowhere near as good as Pax is - although to be fair Pax hasn't finished yet so it still has time to suck - although i doubt it... or at least i hope not.

valoharth

04-06-2008, 12:32 AM

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t268/mikegraham6/f_CryingBearm_42eb3d8.gif

This, This bear has me in stitches, yes thats right I used stitches!

jmstump

04-06-2008, 01:15 PM

Is Batman: Son of the Demon considered good? I really hope it isn't...

At least I got it half off *sigh*

Also where is that bear from, because it's hilarious!

labor_days

04-06-2008, 04:02 PM

"Crying Bear" is a Labor_Days trademark. I'd sue if Mike's use of "Crying Bear" wasn't so apropos.

Nightly News is some visionary comics.

mikegraham6

04-06-2008, 07:01 PM

"Crying Bear" is a Labor_Days trademark. I'd sue if Mike's use of "Crying Bear" wasn't so apropos.

Nightly News is some visionary comics.
i was just about to credit you, labs. I swear!
Next time i'll add "TM Labor_Days Inc." afterwards ;)

conorkilpatrick

04-06-2008, 07:41 PM

Is Batman: Son of the Demon considered good? I really hope it isn't...

At least I got it half off *sigh*

I consider it to be great.

six-gun

04-07-2008, 02:49 AM

I consider it to be great.

Yay! Awesome stuff

jmstump

04-07-2008, 04:56 AM

I enjoyed the art and the banter between Ra's and Batman, overall I disliked it. I really didn't like how Batman acted it reminded me of what Grant Morrison is doing now, which I really do not like his run.

conorkilpatrick

04-07-2008, 04:57 AM

jmstump

04-07-2008, 05:34 AM

Yeah, it's the story Morrison is throwing back too.

Although I find it funny that apparently in an interview he mentioned he never read it. I know he was really going for the Batman from this time period and a lot from Adams/O'Neil stuff

I do have to say I might bite the bullet and pick up RIP just to see what happens. As much as I dislike Morrison, I'm curious to see what this story is about.

valoharth

04-07-2008, 06:47 AM

As much as I dislike Morrison, I'm curious to see what this story is about.

I like Morrison, I really enjoyed his run on X-men and I really would like to see him back on the title. His DC work is hit or miss for me, not enjoying his Batman but love his All-Star Superman.

jmstump

04-07-2008, 06:51 AM

I like Morrison, I really enjoyed his run on X-men and I really would like to see him back on the title. His DC work is hit or miss for me, not enjoying his Batman but love his All-Star Superman.

I can't read X-Men anymore because of his run. I've tried, but I really really did not like his run. I thought it was horrible.

valoharth

04-07-2008, 07:52 AM

I can't read X-Men anymore because of his run. I've tried, but I really really did not like his run. I thought it was horrible.

Where is that damn bear when I need it. I thought this was some of the best X-men writing I've had the pleasure to read. The only thing that I had problems with was the X-men looked more like a biker gang then Superheros.

jmstump

04-07-2008, 09:18 AM

It's like I mentioned earlier it's easier for me to mention writers that are "good" to the masses then certain stories that I don't like. Most of what Morrison has written isn't my thing. I may have posted it here where I think he's the Stephen King of comic books. I love how his books start, but the ending is no where near the pay off it feels like it should be.

Batman Demon and Son is a good example, I thought when I first read it that I was going to finally like something he did. Then the last issue of the arc came out and I disliked it greatly, to put it nicely. I'm going to give Batman RIP a try, but if this one turns out how everything else he's done, there will be only two books of his I will ever give a try afterwards, Animal Man and Doom Patrol, only because they to me seem like something that I can read of his that he can get away with more stuff and I won't notice it.

As for his X-Men, I disliked the costume changes and most of the stuff he did throughout the arc, most of which I don't remember anymore because it was a while ago when I read it and I try to block it from my mind. It didn't help that I really don't like the artist on that book either. Frank Quitely makes all faces look funny to me. I'm also not a fan of how he makes everything look spongy soft.

I've also never dropped a book quicker then All Star Superman. Didn't like the art and I think he blew his load in the first issue.

You might want to break out the Bear again. Maybe a Fail as well?

mikegraham6

04-07-2008, 01:09 PM

NEW THREAD!

Morrison defence force: ACTIVATE!
He is far and away the most brilliant and original writer in comics today. He comes up so many deep and interesting ideas and i think that most people have a hard time wrapping their heads around them. But his stuff is like a puzzle waiting to be solved, if you put in the effort, you'll be rewarded.
I actually like GMo the best when he goes balls to the wall crazy. His Vertigo stuff is legendary. Of all the comic writers, he is probably the best one to read over and over again as you decode layer upon layer of meaning. spectacular stuff
GMo's X-Men run (combined with Ultimate Spidey and Jim Lee drawing Batman) is what led me back to comics in the first place. I always loved the x-men but, like most people, i feel away from comics in high school/university. GMo showed me that comics (and the X-Men) could be so much more than what i though they could be. He made the characters grow up and interesting again and for that I will always love him as a writer (i try to buy everything he does)

Plus read Seven Soldiers it's a masterpiece!

labor_days

04-07-2008, 02:10 PM

valoharth

04-07-2008, 02:23 PM

That is some crazy shit Stump is saying in this thread.

Morrison's New X-Men was the only X-men comic worth reading before Astonishing. The other stuff that came before was mostly disposable and everything that came afterward, excluding Astonishing, was some of the worst comics ever produced.

X-Men fans have a lot to be ashamed of Post-Morrison. Excluding Astonishing, natch.

Yea, and Whedon pulls heavly from the Morrison run and even pokes some fun at it in the first issue.

However I won't say its the only X-men comic worth reading but it's up there.

mikegraham6

04-07-2008, 02:25 PM

"All the leather is scaring people..."

labor_days

04-07-2008, 02:30 PM

However I won't say its the only X-men comic worth reading but it's up there.
No, it really was the only one up till Astonishing. Those old X-men comics, especially the Claremont/Byrne stuff, is terribly hit-n-miss. The franchise was a joke by the time Morrison came around to classy up the thing and was an embarrassment of wasted potential after he left. Sorry, but the truth is what it is.

jmstump

04-07-2008, 02:47 PM

I don't read X-Men anymore unless it's old, like Claremont, Dark Phoenix and such. The only thing I've given a try recently was Ultimate X-Men because the cover looked pretty, I was too easily taken in. Another point to take is that I'm not a huge X-Men fan overall. Never have, well other then the Cartoon show in the 90s that shit rocked!

It's really simple, I just don't dig the guy's writing. His style is not what I look for in comics. Give me Geoff Johns, Matt Wagner, or Bendis, when he's not stretched thin writing stuff, any day. I want someone that to me really knows the character, I feel like Morrison just reinvents the character in his own way. I'm not a fan.

BTW I was wondering when the verbal backlash would come.

I'm also surprised that I mentioned this on the thread a while back and no one really commented on the fact I disliked Morrison, but I got a little out of my dislike for Alan Moore.

labor_days

04-07-2008, 03:02 PM

valoharth

04-07-2008, 03:04 PM

No, it really was the only one up till Astonishing. Those old X-men comics, especially the Claremont/Byrne stuff, is terribly hit-n-miss. The franchise was a joke by the time Morrison came around to classy up the thing and was an embarrassment of wasted potential after he left. Sorry, but the truth is what it is.

I will agree that after Morrison left X-men took a drop in the mediocre, (Xtreme X-men anyone?) I think there were a few little runs that proved decent in that time, and some things that were horrid, like finding out that Nightcrawlers father is Mephistopheles (or some other devil figure). The current stuff that is running is killing me though, Brubaker's X-men run is just dry.

mikegraham6

04-07-2008, 03:07 PM

I will agree that after Morrison left X-men took a drop in the mediocre, (Xtreme X-men anyone?) I think there were a few little runs that proved decent in that time, and some things that were horrid, like finding out that Nightcrawlers father is Mephistopheles (or some other devil figure). The current stuff that is running is killing me though, Brubaker's X-men run is just dry.
OH GOD! Chuck Austen is the devil. forget Scott Lobdell, THIS is the guy who ruined the x-men

labor_days

04-07-2008, 03:15 PM

The blame lies in the fans that bought that shite and continue to buy it.

For shame, X-men fans. For shame.

valoharth

04-07-2008, 03:16 PM

OH GOD! Chuck Austen is the devil. forget Scott Lobdell, THIS is the guy who ruined the x-men

You know I was likening a bit of Austen's run, the romance between Havok and the Nurse, Having The Juggernaut on the team, but he did the Draco thing and I was "Okay thats it, he just single handedly ruined one of my favorite characters forever." Nightcrawler hasn't been the same for me ever since. The whole point of Nightcrawler was he wasn't a demon but just a human who just looks diffrent. Making him half demon just ruins that. And it was Azazel not Mephistopheles.

jmstump

04-07-2008, 03:24 PM

So you don't like Alan Moore or Grant Morrison? The two greatest writers in the medium? Sweet Christmas!

(I'm being intentionally twatish here, Stump. No offense my man. It's just the way I roll with hyperbole and wild generalizations.)

None taken, I've enjoyed reading all of the responses I'm getting. Honestly my favorite thing about being comic book fans is our complete allegiance for a creator. I mean if someone told me they didn't like Geoff Johns, I'd probably faint on the spot.

I will say that I dislike most of Moore's stuff, mostly because he doesn't seem to like Superheroes to me, which is why I wasn't a big fan of the Watchmen. I did thoroughly enjoy The Killing Joke and V for Vendetta though and would like to read his DC collection of stories along with Swamp Thing. I kick myself because I had the trade for Swamp Thing in my hands one day for half off and didn't buy it to at least try it out. DOH!

Also I fully endorse the word of Twatish! :D

Yeah I can explain it pretty well, I have the attention span of a 5 year old and when I sit down and read comics I don't want to reread it to figure out what's going on all the time and find the deeper meaning. This can also be summed up by the fact that I almost never read prose. I maybe read 3-4 books a year and have reread only a handful ever. At the same time I don't want to read a comic written for a 5 year old. I don't want to feel like I have to be Frued to read a comic, I like my comics mostly simple philosophically. I feel Morrison and Moore are philosophical writers, which is why their stuff isn't for me.

I mean hell when I posted my review for The Killing Joke on iFanboy I asked people to explain the ending to me because I read it at face value. Also I have stated I am willing to try Morrison's Doom Patrol and Animal man. Mostly because as a kid I loved Doom Patrol (silver age stuff) and I love the new Animal Man stuff Beechen did for 52 and Countdown to Adventure, and I hear it's based off of his stuff.

labor_days

04-07-2008, 03:40 PM

None taken, I've enjoyed reading all of the responses I'm getting. Honestly my favorite thing about being comic book fans is our complete allegiance for a creator. I mean if someone told me they didn't like Geoff Johns, I'd probably faint on the spot.

I will say that I dislike most of Moore's stuff, mostly because he doesn't seem to like Superheroes to me, which is why I wasn't a big fan of the Watchmen. I did thoroughly enjoy The Killing Joke and V for Vendetta though and would like to read his DC collection of stories along with Swamp Thing. I kick myself because I had the trade for Swamp Thing in my hands one day for half off and didn't buy it to at least try it out. DOH!

Also I fully endorse the word of Twatish! :D

Yeah I can explain it pretty well, I have the attention span of a 5 year old and when I sit down and read comics I don't want to reread it to figure out what's going on all the time and find the deeper meaning. This can also be summed up by the fact that I almost never read prose. I maybe read 3-4 books a year and have reread only a handful ever. At the same time I don't want to read a comic written for a 5 year old. I don't want to feel like I have to be Frued to read a comic, I like my comics mostly simple philosophically. I feel Morrison and Moore are philosophical writers, which is why their stuff isn't for me.

I would say, post-Silver Age, few writers beside Miller and Gerber are as shockingly modern and progressive as Morrison and Moore. There is no question, that their work is without peer in concept and depth.

Nobody would even attempt something like Prometha or Seven Soldiers of Victory. Yet alone pull it off as Moore and Morrison did.

I love Johns and Brubaker. But they are pretty straight forward in terms of concept. They tell good solid stories with great characters.

Though I suspect Brubaker isn't going to have Zatanna break the fourth wall by reaching through the comic book page asking the readers to complete an arcane sigil in a feat of collaborative modern mythology.

That is next level comic booking.

mikegraham6

04-07-2008, 03:42 PM

Moore and Morrison write some of the most complex and thought provoking comics i've ever read. It's very cerebral stuff and if you're not willing to put in the effort to really try to understand it, i can see how the majority of people won't enjoy it (I'm talking about you Stump, just speaking generally). It's why you'll find the majority of complex/"artsy" movies fail miserably at the box office. people like simple concepts done well.

jmstump

04-07-2008, 03:44 PM

oddly enough I love artsy movies and love deciphering them, just not my comic books. I love to sit down and read an issue in 5 minutes and be entertained. Just like how you summed it up. :) I sometimes like to look at myself as a mentally challenged test monkey after they used too much lipstick on him. I sometimes just don't want to think, I reserve that to writing for my Star Wars game or DND.

When you help retarded accountants all day long figure out Tax Software, using the brain can hurt!

mikegraham6

04-07-2008, 03:47 PM

I would say, post-Silver Age, few writers beside Miller and Gerber are as shockingly modern and progressive as Morrison and Moore. There is no question, that their work is without peer in concept and depth.

Nobody would even attempt something like Prometha or Seven Soldiers of Victory. Yet alone pull it off as Moore and Morrison did.

I love Johns and Brubaker. But they are pretty straight forward in terms of concept. They tell good solid stories with great characters.

Though I suspect Brubaker isn't going to have Zatanna break the fourth wall by reaching through the comic book page asking the readers to complete an arcane sigil in a feat of collaborative modern mythology.

That is next level comic booking.
Labs speaks truth