Ufc 81

[iccanui]

Anyone watch this tonite? I dont usually do PPV things or wrestling anymore, but this just looked cool. I was surprised at how well brock did and that call was questionable, but it was fun to watch for sure. Makes me wonder what he will be like with more training. Also makes me wonder if any of it was scripted with brocks backround in WWE, but either way it was worth watching IMO.

Here is the fight.

http://tinyurl.com/3946ab

Not to bad for his second MMA fight ever. I mean this guy they put him up against wasnt a chump. What a fun story to watch though maybe. Guy comes to UFC, loses to a former champ. Sucks it up and learns BJJ to round out his ground skills and fights his way from the bottom all the way to the top. Which again makes me wonder how much of this fight was scripted.


Or perhaps im the only ufc fan. Anyone, anyone ? Bueller ?

[ziggy110]

I usually watch them,didn't watch it tonight,I don't ppv,but I see them[get it:}],love the ufc,it should be the new national pastime,I loath baseball.
So was this one worth my time?

[enemybrick]

It was pretty good, the Brock fight itself was a little dissapointing, I was really pulling for him, but his inexperience in MMA definately showed. The main event was awesome, lots of ups and downs.

[heyseuss]

Big Nog and Tim was a good fight.

It absolutely wasn't scripted and you kinda look silly for suggesting it.

Mazzagatti messed up, interfering like that, he thought Mir was out and he didn't even have a view of his face... then, during the kneebar, count how many seconds it took for Mazzagatti to stop the fight when Brock started tapping, practically 4 full seconds. F*ck steve mazzaggatti in his porn moustache, I hate his reffing he's horrible. (see Yves Edwards vs Josh Thompson, Edwards had to call him over from halfway across the cage to tell him Thompson was out). Lesnar needs a few years of jujitsu before he can contend with Nog, Gonzaga, Werdum, Arlovski, Randy and obviously Fedor. Even Tim Slyvia would make it hard for Lesnar to get him down and keep him down.

You're not the only MMA fan Iccy. I was grappling with fighters who bounce at the bar last night, Larry Landless, John Marsh and Herb Dean work there. Herb hardly ever nowadays though I did have a whiskey with him 2 weeks ago. Just got finished listening to Beatdown after the bell on Sherdog too.

[ziggy110]

spoilersBig Nog and Tim was a good fight.

It absolutely wasn't scripted and you kinda look silly for suggesting it.

Mazzagatti messed up, interfering like that, he thought Mir was out and he didn't even have a view of his face... then, during the kneebar, count how many seconds it took for Mazzagatti to stop the fight when Brock started tapping, practically 4 full seconds. F*ck steve mazzaggatti in his porn moustache, I hate his reffing he's horrible. (see Yves Edwards vs Josh Thompson, Edwards had to call him over from halfway across the cage to tell him Thompson was out). Lesnar needs a few years of jujitsu before he can contend with Nog, Gonzaga, Werdum, Arlovski, Randy and obviously Fedor. Even Tim Slyvia would make it hard for Lesnar to get him down and keep him down.

You're not the only MMA fan Iccy. I was grappling with fighters who bounce at the bar last night, Larry Landless, John Marsh and Herb Dean work there. Herb hardly ever nowadays though I did have a whiskey with him 2 weeks ago. Just got finished listening to Beatdown after the bell on Sherdog too.

yo,
thanks for the spoilers,
read the first one of them but you should make sure you point them out.
like above^

[heyseuss]

thanks for the spoilers,

I'm sorry if I spoiled anything for you. Not sure why you singled me out when it's a)a UFC 81 thread, b) the op mentioned the winner/loser before me.

If you're saying I spoiled Edwards VS Thompson, that was several years ago.

[ziggy110]

I am not trying to single you out [and I apologize if it seemed so]I should have been more clear,
but spoilers are what they are,you should have said so as should the op.

[kronos6948]

I never understood rules in fighting, e.g. no hitting in the back of the head.

Sure, you should keep foreign objects out of the ring, but as far as I'm concerned, if you want to beat the crap out of eachother, you should be able to use whatever tactic...even if it's dirty fighting.

There are no rules in real life if you get into a fight, so why not make it like that?

I also think that any type of fighting sport should be decided by judges. You should go until someone gets knocked out. Health issues? No one said that you had to fight. You made that choice.

I haven't watched a UFC match in years, since watching a ton of submission holds became damn boring.

[styles]

I never understood rules in fighting, e.g. no hitting in the back of the head.

Sure, you should keep foreign objects out of the ring, but as far as I'm concerned, if you want to beat the crap out of eachother, you should be able to use whatever tactic...even if it's dirty fighting.

There are no rules in real life if you get into a fight, so why not make it like that?

I also think that any type of fighting sport should be decided by judges. You should go until someone gets knocked out. Health issues? No one said that you had to fight. You made that choice.

I haven't watched a UFC match in years, since watching a ton of submission holds became damn boring.
yeah, there are no rules in real life.. but you can also goto jail for beating someone :p

anyways, there HAS to be rules, it has to be somewhat safe or no city will allow it and no station will broadcast it, thats why UFC almost died in the 90s, back in the early 90s when it first started, there were pretty much 0 rules.. the only thing i agree with you on is the judges, i dont think a MMA match should be JUDGED.. it should end when either

1. the opponent cannot continue (like a saftey precaution to much blood running in eye etc)

2. the opponent is knocked out

3. the opponent gives up

the scoring and judge thing is complete bullshit.. but other then that you have to have rules man, the sport has to be safe for the fighters otherwise people would be beating eathother into comas not to mention the serious damages that can be done by taking blows to the back of the head

[afflaf]

About Brock Lesnar, I bet Dana White was letting him into the UFC to turn him into the new bad boy of the UFC Or something. I really like the UFC and I despite fighters with Lesnars attitude, talking about himself like he was the greatest thing that happened the UFC.

He got put up against a nobody for his first fight and exactly like he did in his fight he basically threw himself at the other guy but the first time the guy tapped.

That first fight made his ego go BOOM and suddenly he's talking about crushing people and shoving his fist down Frank Mir's throat and bla bla bla, he's full of it. He can wrestle.. alright.. can hit hard.. hey any guy his size can hit pretty hard I'd guess. He deserved the warning he got and I'm glad he lost the match cause it showed how crap he is as a fighter and hopefully made him stop talking so much crap before the next match.

I really enjoyed all the fights except for the Keita Nakamura vs Robert Emerson and Marvin Eastman vs Terry Martin.

[bredrenisedp]

As a huge fan of the UFC and MMA in general I've enjoyed seeing how the sport has changed from an underground cult following to a mass market international event.

Few people realise how many rules there are in the UFC these days. Which in my view are an excellent addition. The rules legitimise the sport as well as provide fighter safety.

With the UFC being a huge multi billion dollar industry the last thing people want to see is a fighter death or serious injury because of bar brawl style fights and allowing an "anything goes" system. Dana White has fought hard to move away from the idea that UFC is an event of no rules and thugs beating the hell out of each other, to promoting it as a controlled sport pushing fighter skill and training to its limits.

Having myself recently conducted a medical study here in the UK on MMA and worked behind the scenes with the doctors looking after the fighters, the thing I hate most is hearing how rules have sanitised the sport, or hearing that blows to the back of the head should be allowed. When you are backstage treating a fighter who has passed out on the floor from exhaustion, or seeing him bleeding out of his nose, face, knuckles and legs. To turn round and tell them their sport isn't hardcore enough or boring is a complete insult.

To the untrained observer the stand-up fight will always seem more interesting than when you see fighters go to the ground and "roll around a bit". But to those people, I urge you to take a few jui-jitsu classes to realise how hard and skillful it is to get a dominant position on the ground and also how much thought, training and skill it takes to carry out a joint lock or choke hold.

The UFC has indeed changed a lot since the old UFC 1 - 7 tournaments which were more of a circus attraction pitting the big 6 foot boxers against the seemingly tiny jui-jitsu fighters, or the bar room brawler against a karate master. Fighters have had to change their game and be completely well rounded in both stand-up and ground work. Rule changes introducing, weight classes as well as legal strike areas and holds have helped legitimise the sport, which in turn allow it to attract large PPV audiences, international venues and huge sums of money. This in turn has allowed fighters to turn professional and focus 24/7 on training and improving their skills, which improves the quality of the fights.

If you want to see chumps beating the hell out of each other with no rules, go to a local bar. If you want to see skilled fighters at the top of their game, watch the UFC.

[kronos6948]

the scoring and judge thing is complete bullshit.. but other then that you have to have rules man, the sport has to be safe for the fighters otherwise people would be beating eathother into comas not to mention the serious damages that can be done by taking blows to the back of the head


Well, I think that if you're willing to go into the ring to get a beating, which is what you're doing anyway, you're going to expect injuries. Back in the early 90's when there were basically no rules for MMA fights like the UFC was when I really enjoyed it.

If you think about it, those "sports" are basically well trained fighters going out there to show how "bad ass" they are for a paycheck. I say let it fly. It would get rid of a lot of the chaff, and would most likely pull in more viewership, although it would probably get less sponsors because of it's brutal nature.

[kronos6948]

As a huge fan of the UFC and MMA in general I've enjoyed seeing how the sport has changed from an underground cult following to a mass market international event.

Few people realise how many rules there are in the UFC these days. Which in my view are an excellent addition. The rules legitimise the sport as well as provide fighter safety.

With the UFC being a huge multi billion dollar industry the last thing people want to see is a fighter death or serious injury because of bar brawl style fights and allowing an "anything goes" system. Dana White has fought hard to move away from the idea that UFC is an event of no rules and thugs beating the hell out of each other, to promoting it as a controlled sport pushing fighter skill and training to its limits.

Having myself recently conducted a medical study here in the UK on MMA and worked behind the scenes with the doctors looking after the fighters, the thing I hate most is hearing how rules have sanitised the sport, or hearing that blows to the back of the head should be allowed. When you are backstage treating a fighter who has passed out on the floor from exhaustion, or seeing him bleeding out of his nose, face, knuckles and legs. To turn round and tell them their sport isn't hardcore enough or boring is a complete insult.

To the untrained observer the stand-up fight will always seem more interesting than when you see fighters go to the ground and "roll around a bit". But to those people, I urge you to take a few jui-jitsu classes to realise how hard and skillful it is to get a dominant position on the ground and also how much thought, training and skill it takes to carry out a joint lock or choke hold.

The UFC has indeed changed a lot since the old UFC 1 - 7 tournaments which were more of a circus attraction pitting the big 6 foot boxers against the seemingly tiny jui-jitsu fighters, or the bar room brawler against a karate master. Fighters have had to change their game and be completely well rounded in both stand-up and ground work. Rule changes introducing, weight classes as well as legal strike areas and holds have helped legitimise the sport, which in turn allow it to attract large PPV audiences, international venues and huge sums of money. This in turn has allowed fighters to turn professional and focus 24/7 on training and improving their skills, which improves the quality of the fights.

If you want to see chumps beating the hell out of each other with no rules, go to a local bar. If you want to see skilled fighters at the top of their game, watch the UFC.

I can't feel pity for someone who steps into a ring with the intent to beat the hell out of someone, who then gets the hell beat out of himself. That person knows what risks they're taking. I don't feel that there should be some sort of babysitting by clamping down on rules. If I play chicken on train tracks, and I get hit by a train, that's on me. I'm the idiot who made the decision to stand in front of a train. So, if you feel that you're tough enough to get into the ring to fight, and make it almost no holds barred, then you know what you're in for. Either you're going to beat someone, or you're going to be beat.

What I got tired with the UFC is that it became mostly a battle of holds. That holds no interest for me. If I watch a fight, I want to see people beat the hell out of eachother.

While I appreciate what Gracie style Jiu Jutsu does, for me, it does not make for interesting viewing (at least not most of the time-there are exceptions). I personally don't think it's an insult to say that I don't enjoy watching grapple holds. It's just my opinion on it.

Now, I know what you're thinking...I wouldn't feel that way if I walked into the ring...well, here's the difference. I actively made the choice NOT to make getting my face caved in a career choice. But, these athletes decided that they're going to take their chances doing this sort of thing.

Granted, I don't want to see in ring deaths. But, I also don't want an over sanitized sport. Next thing you know, they'll be pushing to make it "Family Friendly" a-la the NHL.

[bredrenisedp]

What you're not realising is the MMA is attempting to compete with boxing as the premier combat sport. In order to do this it needs to substantially prove that fighters are well protected by the rules, that it is well controlled as well as keeping it exciting for the fans.

Back in the early 90s there were rules, just not very many of them. That was the reason why most states banned the UFC events and also why it was dropped from cable. Ask anyone in the industry and they will tell you, being dropped from cable is not a good thing. Also stating that you would get "more viewers" for a more brutal event is a little short sighted - how will you get any viewers if it is not on TV, how will you get an audience if states and countries ban you from hosting an event and what sponsor in their right mind would support an illegal sport.

As for calling for blows to the back of the head to be allowed, go to a neuro-rehab center and see the kids who have been in street fights and car accidents, or older boxers suffering from dementia-pugilistica and see how your attitude changes then.

In both the UK and US, MMA is on a knife edge and it is only fighter safety as maintained by both the rules and medical support staff that keeps the sport legitimate and on a massive world stage.

The UFC and MMA in general has moved on so far from the 90s, start watching a few events, realise how skillful the ground game is and I'm sure you will love it again

[gonzooo]

Anyone watch this tonite? I dont usually do PPV things or wrestling anymore, but this just looked cool. I was surprised at how well brock did and that call was questionable, but it was fun to watch for sure. Makes me wonder what he will be like with more training. Also makes me wonder if any of it was scripted with brocks backround in WWE, but either way it was worth watching IMO.
I don't agree with that he did well, and certainly not that the call was "questionable". You have to be pretty ignorant regarding the rules of MMA (& the UFC) to say that a strike to the back of the head isn't wrong.

Regarding how well Lesnar did, why I don't think he did well is simple: He pretty much gassed out trying to punish Mir fast, and after failing that he left bodyparts out in the open, just for the taking.

It wasn't the worst fight I've seen, but it was enough to convince me Lesnar shouldn't fight anyone with any mentionable experience for a good while. I don't think the UFC is the right place for someone who knows practically nothing about BJJ, and you're going to have an overly hard time trying to learn it while getting matches, especially when you're high profile, like Lesnar unfortunately is. Wrestling alone won't take you anywhere, and his ground & pound obviously lasts for about a round.

Not to bad for his second MMA fight ever. I mean this guy they put him up against wasnt a chump. What a fun story to watch though maybe. Guy comes to UFC, loses to a former champ. Sucks it up and learns BJJ to round out his ground skills and fights his way from the bottom all the way to the top. Which again makes me wonder how much of this fight was scripted.
"The guy" is legendary, and you not knowing who he is shows how little you actually know about the UFC, to be honest. Oh, and I don't know if you're joking with the part about it being scripted or not, but if you're not, you just went overboard with the ignorance.

[gonzooo]

I never understood rules in fighting, e.g. no hitting in the back of the head.

Sure, you should keep foreign objects out of the ring, but as far as I'm concerned, if you want to beat the crap out of eachother, you should be able to use whatever tactic...even if it's dirty fighting.

There are no rules in real life if you get into a fight, so why not make it like that?

I also think that any type of fighting sport should be decided by judges. You should go until someone gets knocked out. Health issues? No one said that you had to fight. You made that choice.

I haven't watched a UFC match in years, since watching a ton of submission holds became damn boring.

1. It's a sport nowadays. In sports you have rules. You have rules to protect the competitors, and to make the sport "fair" and "fun". Do you want to see someone grabbing the hands of another fighter and breaking their fingers just to get a win? Would you stand behind someone gouging someone's eyes out to get a win? You're obviously going to say "Hey, you need some rules.", or at least think it, but isn't that a bit hypocritical?

2. Downing your employees' health when it's totally unnecessary is just stupid. You protect your fighters because the fight is already settled. You stop a fight when someone isn't defending properly because they've clearly lost the fight.

3. Post-fight decisions are boring, but they're necessary when you have more people on a card. We're past 4-man tournaments where you needed to kick someone's jaw off, or break something to win, nowadays, and if you can't accept it, maybe you should just leave it be.

4. You trying to disrespect submissions just shows how you actually don't like MMA at all, you don't like the "mixed" part. Is it too technical and too much of a sport for you? Watch boxing or K-1, you'll probably have a better time. True MMA includes grappling.

[skin87]

yo,
thanks for the spoilers,
read the first one of them but you should make sure you point them out.
like above^

This happens in MMA forums all the time too and I can't understand it. This was a live event, not a taped delayed Pride PPV. If you're waiting til the next day to torrent the PPV, fine, I won't criticize you for that. However, if you are dumb enough to open a thread called UFC 81, which was created after the event aired, you deserve to have it spoiled.

[ajadoniz]

Nice to see a UFC following at rev3.

The fights turned out to be very good ('cept for eastman-martin). Timmy seems to know that if he doesn't try to end fights that he'll be on the out with the UFC, so his showing tonight was great.

Lesnar-Mir could have been great if Steve Maz. hadn't done such an amateur knee-jerk decision to call foul on Brock. It was definately biased (Steve was probably thinking wrasslin boy didn't fully understand the rules), it wasn't Brock's fault Mir was squirming to get out of the way. Oh well, I guess, maybe it would have ended the same way.

[gonzooo]

... it wasn't Brock's fault Mir was squirming to get out of the way.
Where your strikes go is your responsibility.

[ajadoniz]

i counted at most 1 consecutive strike to the back of the head, which says Brock was aware and adjusted as Mir squirmed. it happens accidentally and steve maz. should know this instead of freaking out by deducting points like a sissy boy.

[heyseuss]

With the UFC being a huge multi billion dollar industry the last thing people want to see is a fighter death or serious injury because of bar brawl style fights and allowing an "anything goes" system. Dana White has fought hard to move away from the idea that UFC is an event of no rules and thugs beating the hell out of each other, to promoting it as a controlled sport pushing fighter skill and training to its limits.


Please don't be mistaken with this, Dana White had absolutely nothing to do with the rule changes, he doesn't deserve that credit at all.

[heyseuss]

You know I ike you for the most part Kronos, but BS!!!1!!1 Me kicking you in the balls is not sporting, it's spectacle. I'd rather see a fighter have a career and train and develop, then walk into a no rules fight and get the back of his neck stomped on. And about you not like the rolling and trying holds, that has to do with you not knowing what you are seeing. When you know the submissions, you know what positions they can be done from, you start to appreciate the art and style getting into those positions requires, and the danger that is just around the corner when someone is in one of those positions.

Seeing as you like it a little harder, I reccommend you check out Pride Fichgting Championships from Japan, they allowed knees, soccer kicks and stomps to a downed oppoonent.

And seeing as you aren't too into the grapppling, I would suggest you watch some grappling only tournaments, like Grapplers Quest or Abu Dhabi Combat Club. Those are world class grapplers.

Try watching Sakuraba's early fights in Pride and tell me the ground game isn't exciting.

[heyseuss]

"The guy" is legendary, and you not knowing who he is shows how little you actually know about the UFC, to be honest.

He said he wasn't a cump and was former champ... . . sounds like Iccanui acknowledged Mirs career enough to me.

[heyseuss]

This happens in MMA forums all the time too and I can't understand it. This was a live event, not a taped delayed Pride PPV. If you're waiting til the next day to torrent the PPV, fine, I won't criticize you for that. However, if you are dumb enough to open a thread called UFC 81, which was created after the event aired, you deserve to have it spoiled.

I have to say, especially in these forums. It's one thing for me to spoil Star Trek here, but I couldn't imagine anyone clicking on a thread that started at the end of a live event, was going to be surprised to see spoilers here. In Sherdog, it would be a different story.

[heyseuss]

i counted at most 1 consecutive strike to the back of the head, which says Brock was aware and adjusted as Mir squirmed. it happens accidentally and steve maz. should know this instead of freaking out by deducting points like a sissy boy.

Mazzagatti didn't stop it to call back of the head, he thought Mir was out because he's a fcking idiiot who wasn't looking at Mirs face and didn't realise Mir was rolling to his side to get guard. I really only saw 2 at the most, back of the head punches. All he had to do was say 'watch the back of the head'.

And to the ppl saying Brock hits hard . . . no he really doesn't. Yes, in your or my face, taht would be hard, but he doesn't really have any power. He didn't throw one single technically adept punch, they were all rabbit-hammer-arm punches. Mir always lets himself get hit while he searches for subs, and yes his head was bouncing around, but considering how many he'd landed, Mir was fine, because Brock doens't throw that much power yet.

[ajadoniz]

Mazzagatti didn't stop it to call back of the head, he thought Mir was out because he's a fcking idiiot who wasn't looking at Mirs face and didn't realise Mir was rolling to his side to get guard. I really only saw 2 at the most, back of the head punches. All he had to do was say 'watch the back of the head'.

And to the ppl saying Brock hits hard . . . no he really doesn't. Yes, in your or my face, taht would be hard, but he doesn't really have any power. He didn't throw one single technically adept punch, they were all rabbit-hammer-arm punches. Mir always lets himself get hit while he searches for subs, and yes his head was bouncing around, but considering how many he'd landed, Mir was fine, because Brock doens't throw that much power yet.

so we can all agree Maz. was a douche.

2nd. Have you watched Fight Science? In case you haven't, it showed how powerful gNp is. I do think Mir was hurting from the hammerfists. It doesn't look like much power, but you can't take too many of those, which is why Mir was rolling away and then Maz. intervened (a-hole). Check out the Fight Science show on MMA, it's pretty cool.

[heyseuss]

so we can all agree Maz. was a douche.

2nd. Have you watched Fight Science? In case you haven't, it showed how powerful gNp is. I do think Mir was hurting from the hammerfists. It doesn't look like much power, but you can't take too many of those, which is why Mir was rolling away and then Maz. intervened (a-hole). Check out the Fight Science show on MMA, it's pretty cool.

I know how powerful gNp is, (see heath herring vs takahashi:eek:) and Brock wasn't reaching those levels of power. And Mir wasn't rolling away because he was getting hit in the face (seen his fight against Ian Freeman?), he would have rolled anyway to go for the sub even if he wsn't getting hit.

Maz is going to get in trouble for that shit. After every MMA event the refs get into a meeting with the athletic commision and they discuss what went wrong, etc. I think I already mentioned it in this thread, but I"ll name drop again, herb dean (best ref in mma) is a friend of mine.

[ajadoniz]

i didnt kno about the meeting thing. i guess that's how herb dean got better (he's now my fav. after big john left.)

[heyseuss]

i didnt kno about the meeting thing. i guess that's how herb dean got better (he's now my fav. after big john left.)

He was always better, just not as popular. He has more experience as well, like, 2000 fights more experience..

He's not a bad fighter as well, killer striking, not bad grappling.

[ajadoniz]

i don't know about better, he was making some weird calls up until 1 year ago; usually standing people up prematurely.

i have heard of him being an active fighter. i've seen one of his fights, i think i have the video saved on youtube.. ill post later.

[heyseuss]

i don't know about better, he was making some weird calls up until 1 year ago; usually standing people up prematurely.

I won't say he's perfect, but as far as premature stand-ups ??? Mario, Maz, Big John all do that alot more, especially big john.

i have heard of him being an active fighter. i've seen one of his fights, i think i have the video saved on youtube.. ill post later.

If it's the fight in Korea, it's a good fight, even though he loses, he fought well considering he doesn't get any time to train these days.

[bredrenisedp]

I was ringside for his fight here in the UK and met him after, unfortunately he lost (actually had to retire from the fight after the first round, he gassed himself out). A great referee, not the greatest fighter (but no-one expects this), and definately a super nice bloke.

I think him and big john are by far the best refs in the business.

Also Heyseuss, I know Dana has nothing to do with the rule changes, but as a promoter I think he's done a great job of trying to move away from the notion that MMA is thugs in cages beating each other, to selling it as a sport of skill, well trained and disciplined fighters. If only the guys here in the UK would find a Dana to promote themselves, unfortunately I feel we are still stuck in that late 90s UFC stage where people expect it to be a stand-up toe to toe rocky fight. Although, having said that, possibly the greatest fight I've seen live has been from Cage Rage 15 - Manhoef vs Cyborg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gs6bXIiXrHI), the atmosphere in the arena was electric.

[heyseuss]

I was ringside for his fight here in the UK and met him after, unfortunately he lost (actually had to retire from the fight after the first round, he gassed himself out). A great referee, not the greatest fighter (but no-one expects this), and definately a super nice bloke.

He didn't quit because he gassed he quit because he injured his eye badly. He isn't the best fighter, but as I said, he doesn't get much time to train anymore. He kicks like a freakin' mule though. Watch that fight in Korea,, he drops the other guy twice. Him and Larry Landless used to run The Submission Factory and they've produced alot of good fighters. But Herb can't fight in America because of his association with the athletic commisions, and now he's just too busy working non-stop. Busiest ref in MMA in the world. And yes, a really nice guy, I had a drink with him about 2 weeks ago and I covered the door while Larry went to the bathroom at my bar this past weekend.


Also Heyseuss, I know Dana has nothing to do with the rule changes, but as a promoter I think he's done a great job of trying to move away from the notion that MMA is thugs in cages beating each other, to selling it as a sport of skill, well trained and disciplined fighters.

Can't deny he is primarily responsible for making it go mainstream. Getting it on TV was the clincher. (hahaha, clinch, no pun intended)

Although, having said that, possibly the greatest fight I've seen live has been from Cage Rage 15 - Manhoef vs Cyborg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gs6bXIiXrHI), the atmosphere in the arena was electric.

That's becaue of Cyborg. He's not very good, but the man will definitely stand and bang like a crazy with anyone. And Manhoef only really knows kickboxing. Was a good slug fight though.

[iccanui]

so we can all agree Maz. was a douche.




Agreed. Every fight i have every seen they get a tap with " watch the head ". The only thing i can think is that it was a high profile match, the biggest UFC match to date in the way of hype, maybe he was nervious and since mir was getting hit to the back of the head by a very large man so he just jumped on it. I dont know, seems a little shady though.

Oh and to my knowledge. I been watching since before it came together. But whatever, i just enjoy it. That said, i dont think its crazy to think that a professional wrestler ( a actor ) might have come into the UFC on the path of a story. Have you ever watched WWE? Its modern drama. Im not saying it happened, im just saying i wouldnt be suprised if had been loosely scripted. Makes the UFC look even more for real and humbles brock and makes us all like him as he bashes his way to the top. Just think about why this match was such a big deal. Not only were UFC fans tuning in, but WWE fans and even fans of neither.

[heyseuss]

Oh and to my knowledge. I been watching since before it came together. But whatever, i just enjoy it. That said, i dont think its crazy to think that a professional wrestler ( a actor ) might have come into the UFC on the path of a story. Have you ever watched WWE? Its modern drama. Im not saying it happened, im just saying i wouldnt be suprised if had been loosely scripted.

How can you say that? It should stun you. You know better than this. Lesnar signed with UFC, it's not a co-promotion with WWE. There are no string pullers within the cage, despite the fact that there are some very big string pullers outside of the cage.

Makes the UFC look even more for real and humbles brock

Who is unsure whether UFC is real or not ? How could Brock be anything other than humble, even he knows he doesn't know anything.

and makes us all like him as he bashes his way to the top.

I won't say never, but it will probably NEVER happen.

Just think about why this match was such a big deal. Not only were UFC fans tuning in, but WWE fans and even fans of neither.

Very true and good point. But as the results showed, the reailty of MMA prevailed over his wrestling and acting experience. It should hopefully sway a few wrestling fans over to MMA though.

It makes me sad though, Lesnar fighting in the UFC is not a big deal. He's a big dumb wrestler, he won't be a contender for years. The hype for this fight outshadowed the far more imporant timVSnog fight. It's double sad that because Lesnar sells tickets, he gets a better contract than guys who deserve it.

[gonzooo]

... the biggest UFC match to date in the way of hype...
I don't think it was _that_ huge. As far as I know, UFC fans didn't really care all that much. Tito Ortiz has stood for more hype and cash flow than any fighter in the history of the UFC, and I doubt that will change for a while, to be honest. Any BJ Penn fight is bound to draw more hype than a pretty crappy fighter as Lesnar. Just recently, Silva vs Liddell got way more hype than Mir vs Lesnar.

I guess perspective has a lot to do with it, though: I watch/listen to MMA stuff, not wrestling. I read MMA forums and get MMA news. Those forums, shows and sites follow exciting MMA fights, not wannabes who don't belong anywhere outside of the preliminaries.

Just think about why this match was such a big deal. Not only were UFC fans tuning in, but WWE fans and even fans of neither.
Again, I didn't think it was _that_ big of a deal. Sylvia vs Nogueira was a bigger deal; my bet would be only WWE fans thought otherwise. They're obviously the one's that spammed the text messaging poll with Lesnar votes too.

I guess you have a different climate in the US. I don't know anyone that watches "pro" wrestling. All my friends did, and so did I, when I was 10 or something. Assuming that those are the viewers that would be wanting to buy a UFC PPV just because Brock Lesnar is fighting (which might be a totally wrong assumption), I don't think they'll get very far without a parent's permission. And if that parent will allow his son/daughter to watch the event, he/she is probably already a buyer since before.

[bredrenisedp]

He didn't quit because he gassed he quit because he injured his eye badly.

Sorry to disappoint you mate, especially because Herb is such a nice guy. But as part of the medical team, when we assessed him post fight there were absolutely no injuries to the eye that we could see. (Actually I'm currently working on a medical research paper on MMA injuries, which should be published in the next few months). I do love the fact that Herb steps into the ring as both a ref and a fighter, what a legend.

As for cyborg, yeah he's a stand-up banger which makes for exciting but not the most technically gifted fights. If I'm honest Cage Rage here in the UK is so sub par compared to the UFC, but thats the beauty of being the biggest organisation is that you can draw the best fighters in the world.

It's good to know that so many TRS fans like MMA, Here in the UK, it is still very much a cult following.