Pick of the Week Podcast Episode #118: Captain America #34

[conorkilpatrick]

It's our 118th episode and events are set in motion.

We discuss Conor's Pick of the Week for February 1, 2008:

http://www.ifanboy.com/images/pickoftheweek013008-thumb.jpg
Captain America #34
by Ed Brubaker & Steve Epting
Running Time: 00:58:05

Click here for download info and show notes! (http://www.ifanboy.com/archive/weblog/020308_episode.html)

Click here to read the Pick of the Week review! (http://www.ifanboy.com/archive/pickoftheweek/01302008_captai.html)

[six-gun]

great mix of books on the show

[gungadin]

I agree with Six. It's a testament to how good this week was because of the nice spread of books. Sometimes I don't care about half the books y'all talk about, but this week there's only like... one or two I'm just slightly impassive about.

[labor_days]

Good show.

Darrel's question of people disliking McDuffie's JLA run stemming from racism was very odd. I haven't seen or heard anything that would indicate that assumption.

Out of curiosity, I'd like to know more specifically where Darrell is getting such overtures.

Certainly, not from anything I've read here, on iFanboy, the comic news sites or the dozen+ forums, blogs and podcasts I check out daily.

Seriously, where the hell did that come from?

[mastap]

Do you happen to read the Newsarama forum comments. 'cause I'm pretty sure thats exactly where he's getting it from

[labor_days]

No.

Of course, I don't read the Newsarama comments.

Are they particularly...um, well...bigoted?

[mastap]

A fair amount, it's not a very... well spoken place

[jaflanagan]

No.

Of course, I don't read the Newsarama comments.

That's very funny.

[labor_days]

A fair amount, it's not a particularly, umm, well spoken placeHence, why I do not read the Newsarama comments.

But even so, are people actually suggesting there are too many black people in the book? I mean, seriously.

[conorkilpatrick]

But even so, are people actually suggesting there are too many black people in the book? I mean, seriously.

You sound surprised that racism exists in a medium (creators, fans, characters) dominated by white males.

[labor_days]

You sound surprised that racism exists in a medium (creators, fans, characters) dominated by white males.
No, I'm just puzzled where such criticism is coming from and to what degree of it is about race.

I heard a lot of people frustrated with the recent tie-ins to the Tangent and Salvation Run story lines. That's valid.

Is that really code for, "dem darkies are ruining JLA!" though?

Don't doubt some folks feel that way. But is that really what is going on in the Newsarama talkback and in the greater comics fandom? Hm.

There is a good discussion to be had about latent racism, misogyny, sexism and marginalization in comics. Not seeing that so much w/r/t JLA.

Much like Ron, it's difficult for me to process such ridiculousness.

[esophagus]

I'm kind of with Labor on this one. I am guessing you can find a person out there who is profoundly upset by the amount of black people found in JLA, but I didn't realize this was a rampant concern, that Newsarama, or any other place where readers come together, were dismissing a book in any significant numbers based on race. The fact that it's even being suggested kind of boggles my mind. As far as I'm concerned, there's probably more people out there convinced they're Jesus reborn, or a multitude of other nonsensical things, then there are people concerned with the number of black people in McDuffie's run. Just doesn't seem to have any validity, or place for a substantial following, in this industry, white-dominated or not.

Edit: Just read all of the Newsarama JLA thread (not actually that long). Found one mention of race, and it was just mentioned in passing while talking about the excessive power Black Panther seems to have. Nothing racist.

[jasontodd]

Seriously, any racists comments about about 2 or 3 black JLA members after 40 years of a 95% white JLA are uncalled for.

That being said, I don't think that many people are upset about it after reading the Newsarama comments. So... we shouldn't overblow it on the iFanboy message boards.

[esophagus]

Seriously, any racists comments about about 2 or 3 black JLA members after 40 years of a 95% white JLA are uncalled for.

That being said, I don't think that many people are upset about it after reading the Newsarama comments. So... we shouldn't overblow it on the iFanboy message boards.Truth.

Just seemed like a very out there voicemail. I guess that's what Darrell is good for.

[itsbecca]

I just wanted to mention that contained within this podcast is some of the most golden Ron moments I've heard in awhile. I was dying.

[six-gun]

I just wanted to mention that contained within this podcast is some of the most golden Ron moments I've heard in awhile. I was dying.

Josh called himself a commie bastard, that was funny

[jaflanagan]

http://www.wesleyan.edu/css/readings/Barber/marx.gif

[six-gun]

http://www.wesleyan.edu/css/readings/Barber/marx.gif

that's funny too :D

[six-gun]

New Avengers annual #2 isn't after WWH, it's basically the next issue of NA

[dave-accampo]

Well, I applaud you guys for tackling the racism question with both humor and insight. And special thanks to Conor for noting that the problems most of us (on this board) mentioned had to do with the corporate control over the book and NOTHING to do with McDuffie (who's writing I quite enjoy) or the make-up of characters on the team. I actually really LIKE the make-up of the team right now, and it makes my dropping of JLA even more bittersweet. I'm actually considering just sending my $3 directly to McDuffie every month and asking him if he can just send me some JLA fan-fic. :D

[mikegraham6]

ya, im not seeing this "racism against JLA" thing, but im not an avid internet surfer (i basically check here, newsarama, ign and the boards of some of the ifanbase)

In terms of the Captain America/Canadian thing (you guys didn't think i'd let that go would you? ;))
I used to avoid Captain America when i was kid for the sole reason that it seemed like American propaganda (how i came to that realization at 10, don't ask me). I tried to read it when i was younger but it was very preachy and patriotic. In Canada we are completely inundated with tons of pro-America, patriotic media and it almost becomes reactionary to immediately dismiss it. It's a unique situation our country shares with only New Zealand (and to a lesser extent, Belgium), where a significant/entire portion of our media diet is from another culture and is basically leading to an identity crisis (heh). It's a big problem in our country, but i digress.
It turned me off and i had basically written him off as a one note character until i read The Ultimates and Brubaker's Cap run about a year later (athough Miller's Cap in ultimates pushed the boundries at some points: "Do you think this letter on my head stands for France?!?" *groan* :rolleyes:)

i felt those two books (and later New Avengers and Civil War) really helped solidify Cap as standing more for an ideal rather than a country. He became about the best principles that the United States (and yes, other western countries) were founded upon. Plus they were great friggin' stories. Brubaker's Cap run in particular could replace Cap with just about anyone and it would still be great (hell, it could even be an amazing James Bond story). So i think it's become more focused on story and character than the country itself. I particularly like this current Cap story where Brubaker is using the book to comment on the current American landscape and using Cap almost as a personification of America fighting back against the woes that are befalling the country (or i at least assume he will be in the future).
But i do think there is something to the "familiarity" comment that the listener mentioned as well. As crappy as some of the recent Alpha/Omega Flights books have been, i did pick them up and i did enjoy certain aspects that were particularly Canadian. But i don't think you can relate this to the Captain American discussion, i mean the familiarity thing isn't why you guys read Cap right? you're all used to seeing American aspects in your comics right? The whole Flight thing is more kitch to me than anything else, a guilty pleasure.

I wish i had read some of the Cap books when I was younger. I've heard he wasn't just a tool of the government and he actually rebelled against the establishment if he felt it went against the established American ideals. Had i read this i probably wouldn't have dismissed him so quickly.

please tell if im totally off base here though (including you Canadians) because i (obviously) don't speak for everyone

[labor_days]

Very interesting perspective, Mike.

[six-gun]

Well, I applaud you guys for tackling the racism question with both humor and insight. And special thanks to Conor for noting that the problems most of us (on this board) mentioned had to do with the corporate control over the book and NOTHING to do with McDuffie (who's writing I quite enjoy) or the make-up of characters on the team. I actually really LIKE the make-up of the team right now, and it makes my dropping of JLA even more bittersweet. I'm actually considering just sending my $3 directly to McDuffie every month and asking him if he can just send me some JLA fan-fic. :D

I think I'll join you

[big-e]

I'm still geeked about my voicemail about Jay Garrick and Alan Scott being answered. Looks like I've got some reading to do. I'm going to check out James Robinson's The Golden Age first, then the Waid/Johns Flash stuff, then maybe Starman.

Thanks for the help, fellas.

How pissed are you, Josh, that a Starman omnibus is coming out in May?

[jaflanagan]

How pissed are you, Josh, that a Starman omnibus is coming out in May?

Let's not talk about it. But more than I was when I got the 10th volume of Sandman the week before they announced that Absolute.

[gungadin]

Let's not talk about it. But more than I was when I got the 10th volume of Sandman the week before they announced that Absolute.

Oh that is so hilarious, dude... So hilarious...

[jdw]

Hey guys,

Your talk about Tony Harris had me digging through my old Starman comics and reflecting on the good old days and lo and behold who is the inker? None other than the mysterious Count Von Grawbadger! Ok, I don't know if he is really a Count but he's obviously the Lord of Coincidences! Looks like he was on for more than 40+ issues.

[labor_days]

Von Grawbadger also inked Villains United and Nextwave: Agents Of Hate, I believe.

[jaflanagan]

I knew I recognized that name from something, and it's the Starman trades.

[itsbecca]

If I ever have need in the future for a pseudonym, you can be assured that it will be proceeded by "Von".

[labor_days]

Still the best...

http://toughpigs.com/uploaded_images/count_von_count-1-720172.jpg

Count Von Count.

[mistersizzle]

I hadn't been reading Captain America, but picked up the latest on a lark and was completely caught off guard by how good it was. I've always avoided Captain America, writing it off as just another war comic, but this issue has brought me into the patriotic fold. I will be Adding this title to my pull list on my Wed. trip to Tomorrow Is Yesterday.

[52878org]

Ok after you guys and other people where talking about Y the last man is such a great book. I went out got my self a copy of the first trade paperback. Also Captain America was GREAT and I know some people who lives in France and the UK. That are loving the story so I don't think it is a pro USA book at 1000000 %. And about he having the gun he is NOT Steve Rogers anymore and James Buchanan "Bucky" Barnes use to have a gun back in World War II and as Winter Soldier he had one. So let's face it kids this is not Stan Lee's Captain America this is Ed Brubaker's.

[superfriend82]

1 Batman
2 Robin
3 Alan Scott
4 Spider-man
5 Wolvrine
6 Iron Fist
7 Bubble Bee (form the movie)

[nuclearman]

1 Batman
2 Robin
3 Alan Scott
4 Spider-man
5 Wolvrine
6 Iron Fist
7 Bubble Bee (form the movie)

..really surprised with some of the guys picks ... not alot of semi unknowns ... so many to choose from .. and to drop Ted Kord at the last minute ...:(

I'll have a go ..
firestorm (jason), booster gold, spider-man, blue beetle (ted), batman, mister miracle (scott), Dr Strange.

[jaflanagan]

..really surprised with some of the guys picks ... not alot of semi unknowns ... so many to choose from .. and to drop Ted Kord at the last minute ...:(

I'll have a go ..
firestorm (jason), booster gold, spider-man, blue beetle (ted), batman, mister miracle (scott), Dr Strange.

Well, we're not trying to impress people with our knowledge of the obscure.

Ask me again today, and I'd probably come up with a different list. At least slightly.

[dave-accampo]

Ask me again today, and I'd probably come up with a different list. At least slightly.

Honestly, I'm surprised you didn't mention Jack Knight.

But then...there are so many ways to think about that list.

The fantasy team that I would want to WRITE would be different than the team of favorites I might want to read. And even then -- who would be writing this fantasy series?

For example, no one but James Robinson should write Jack Knight. ;)


(Yes, I'm terrible at top 5 lists. I need more information. Annoys people. Makes me think of Cusacks' character in High Fidelity.)

[nuclearman]

Well, we're not trying to impress people with our knowledge of the obscure.

Ask me again today, and I'd probably come up with a different list. At least slightly.

... what's your list today JA??

[gungadin]

Just listened to the ep...

My seven!

1) Stargirl
2) Green Lantern (Kyle Rayner)
3) Shadowcat
4) Zatanna
5) Hawkeye (Kate Bishop)
6) Nico Minoru (from Runaways)
7) Molly Hayes (also from Runaways)