Netflix drops HD-DVD

[jae]

AP reports:
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jM1hM9N0UrPIU3dywVdkrhyvcNMwD8UO64IG0

Any thoughts?

It looks like blu-ray is winning (or has won. I guess.)

Good news for Sony at least.

[masherscf]

Shit. There goes the only reason to buy a HD-DVD player... If netflix didn't have HD-discs, I would bother with an HD player at all.

[damnedeyez]

Kinda silly for them to do that...there are people with players and I'm sure there will be new discs for awhile. I'm guessing there's a monetary reason.

[siraim]

I think this is huge news... and couldn't agree more that it's another nail in the HD-DVD coffin.

[masherscf]

Kinda silly for them to do that...there are people with players and I'm sure there will be new discs for awhile. I'm guessing there's a monetary reason.

Maybe, it's not like they've had to buy that many HD-DVDs. The practical availibility of HD-DVD disc from netflix isn't very good to begin with. Often you opted for the DVD because it comes quicker.

[moogaman]

Oh well, my PS3 was better at playing media than my 360 anyway. Poor Toshiba, they tried so hard.

[patrickdonohue]

I think anyone who has an HD-DVD player and Netflix had to have seen the writing on the wall here. I mean the number of Blu-Ray discs dwarfs the number of HD-DVD discs available through Netflix. Even titles that are made in both formats often aren't carried in the HD-DVD format (i.e. Children of Men, Pan's Labyrinth, etc.) Can't say I'm terribly surprised here.

[darknessgp]

I think this is huge news... and couldn't agree more that it's another nail in the HD-DVD coffin.

With the way things have been going, I can't see how Netflix could possibly keep HD-DVD for too much longer anyways. Better to cut it earlier than later when it's a big money sink hole.

[masherscf]

With the way things have been going, I can't see how Netflix could possibly keep HD-DVD for too much longer anyways. Better to cut it earlier than later when it's a big money sink hole.

That's the thing, It's not money in a sink hole. At least, not until the demand for HD-DVD evaporates. The waiting list for most HD-DVD titles suggests that it isn't. If you consider that people will probably opt for DVD titles instead, then offering Blue-Ray DVDs is also a money sink hole. The only reason that Netflix offered both Blue-ray and HD-DVD was to compete with other online movie rental places. This HD-DVD movie drop probably has more to do with the whoas at Blockbuster than HD-DVD.

[jexter]

Guess I'll be continuing to hold of on the 360HD-DVD add on. Even with the new price drop, just does not look like its going to be worth it. That sucks, but I guess i now have another reason to get a PS3 some day.

[njshadow]

This was inevitable. (LOL, I sound like Smith) But actually, I was listening to one of the PS3/Sony demos in my store yesterday and APPARENTLY HD-DVD can only hold up to like 30 gigs of memory whereas Blu-Ray can hold up to 80 gigs. I knew this was coming. It was only a matter of time.

[gonzooo]

This was inevitable. (LOL, I sound like Smith) But actually, I was listening to one of the PS3/Sony demos in my store yesterday and APPARENTLY HD-DVD can only hold up to like 30 gigs of memory whereas Blu-Ray can hold up to 80 gigs. I knew this was coming. It was only a matter of time.

If I remember correctly, that would be 50 GB for a dual layer blu-ray disc against 30 GB for a dual layer HD-DVD disc.

While it's obvious more space is good, trusting the PR/marketing department that said the PS3 was doing fine right after launch when the whole world knew it was selling shit everywhere is kind of ridiculous :)

EDIT: ADD...

Actually, I'd like to add Microsoft to that list too. They're all liars, or at the very least truthbenders. They have no reason to ever be truthful to anyone, regardless of where their loyalties lie. That is the nature of the PR/marketing asshole.

[ugly-casanova32]

Damn You Sony!

[nextgenxbox]

Wonder how much they paid Netflix to go exclusive. Money talks.

[eddielee]

Good bye HD DVD.

[az0madman]

Best Buy is gonna be endorsing BD as their format of choice starting March as well. After Spring, I just don't know how HD-DVD is gonna keep going.

[masherscf]

This was inevitable. (LOL, I sound like Smith) But actually, I was listening to one of the PS3/Sony demos in my store yesterday and APPARENTLY HD-DVD can only hold up to like 30 gigs of memory whereas Blu-Ray can hold up to 80 gigs. I knew this was coming. It was only a matter of time.

This a a crock of marketing bullshit. So what if it can hold 80 gigs? The burnable Blue-Ray discs are like $30 a slice. For that, you can get over 120 GIG of standard DVDs.

Movies you say, modern compression techniques will bring a feature length movie in full-HD to much, much less that 80 GIG.

But wait, can't you get a whole season of shows one one disk. Technically yes, but it will never happen. Nobody is going to pay market rate for an entire season of a TV show for just one disk. They'll still span several disks in order to justify the price point.

The Blue-Ray will help with packing for video game data on a single disk, yay PS3.

But, for regular consumer media, the benefit of the larger capacity will never be realized.

What are we giving up for that unrealizable potential? The HD-DVDs are less expensive to manufacture. (Having something to do with their smaller capacity). The HD-DVD players are cheaper to make. (but, who need sub $200 players anyway). The menuing software is vastly superior. Toshiba had perfected a Dual-disk format that allows Dual format HD-DVDs to play in standard DVD players at standard resolution. This enables you to play the disks in any media player in the house...even a Blue-Ray player. This also enables you to rip the movie to your computer in standard DVD resolution without any hassle. If you like to watch your movies on the go, that is. (But, who would ever want that kind of versatility)

So, Yay, we have a disk with an 80GB capacity. I'm so thrilled. The Sony salesman are focusing on the only real "advantage" of blue-ray players... Well, that and we'll never see another new-release HD-DVD again. :(

Pardon me for not being happy about it. Where's my PS3?

[scoobydiesel]

ouch.

Like really for some reason i didnt see this coming yeeeet but yeah.

But glad that the war is slowing down and almost over...or i hope.

[satori]

the format war ended when Warner signed, this is just the end game. I do have to add though that I'm surprised it happened so quickly.

[njshadow]

This a a crock of marketing bullshit. So what if it can hold 80 gigs? The burnable Blue-Ray discs are like $30 a slice. For that, you can get over 120 GIG of standard DVDs.

But Blu-Ray is the superior format. Why would you want to go with an inferior product. The cost for Blu-Ray discs should start coming down soon anyway. Why would you WANT to go with an inferior piece of technology i.e. HD-DVD?

[gonzooo]

But Blu-Ray is the superior format. Why would you want to go with an inferior product. The cost for Blu-Ray discs should start coming down soon anyway. Why would you WANT to go with an inferior piece of technology i.e. HD-DVD?
The finalized standard for Blu-ray is better, yes, but it's not entirely that simple.

Both sides are developing ways to cram more layers into the discs. Some of these attempts require new readers, some don't. On the Blu-ray side you have tests done that bring the disc size up to something like 200 GB, which may or may not require a new reader. The HD-DVD side has similar tests, with equal uncertainty regarding whether your player can actually read the discs right now.

A company called Ritek apparently have devised a way to increase the layers of both formats to 10, so they land at 250 GB and 150 GB. Obviously, the discs don't work with current readers, so if you're a size nut you're fucked right there. You already went for the inferior discs, Shadow. ;)

Personally I'm not even sure why you'd need to have that kind of space on a disc, and I don't think they'll be good for anything else than backups, at least for the guy/girl at home.

I honestly don't like how this opens up for developers to continue on their dumb path where game data (i.e. textures and whatnot) needs to be huge and is growing all the time. Most of the stuff can be done incredibly well with procedural models instead. Instead of having roughly 6 times the size of our DVDs we could've had 10 times the games on the same discs instead, if the industry wasn't so hellbent on going down the wrong path.

If anyone is wondering about procedural models and what they can achieve, or you're just a skeptic, check out .kkrieger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.kkrieger). 96 kB, and look at what you get. Sure, you might argue that employing these wizards would cost a fortune, but I think and hope that if this would become at least a little integrated to the development process you'd just see a change in who gets the money, not how much money is actually spent.

[jae]

I thought the increased size blu-ray discs were merely a software update, however that might have been for a previously mentioned size increase.

As far as procedural textures? If I can have 25 or 50 GB of game, why wouldn't I want it? Just because you can fit .kkrieger onto a dual layer blu-ray disc over 4 million times*, doesn't make it a deal. Game companies aren't going to start doubling, tripling, 4 million-ing games onto a disc just because they can, it'll be 1 to 1 regardless of game size. So if they want to fill the disc up with highly specialized textures to make the game more varied, good, do it. Why would you complain about that?

*I googled the math. Yeah, I'm just that cool.

[masherscf]

But Blu-Ray is the superior format. Why would you want to go with an inferior product. The cost for Blu-Ray discs should start coming down soon anyway. Why would you WANT to go with an inferior piece of technology i.e. HD-DVD?

Again, marketing bullshit.

Why is Blue-Ray "superior? Because of the more advanced technology involved. News flash, the CD audio format is more than 20-years old and still viable. It hasn't been upgraded because "superior" formats are available.

There is nothing inferior about HD-DVD but capacity. Any difference in the technology only services that greater capacity. The "superior" technology is never going to deliver a superior experience because the disc manufacturer will never use that capacity.

Also, because of the cost of bandwidth in delivering HD media over the internet. Pressure on video codec script writers will make it possible within 5-years to get a feature length film in full 1080P resolution on to a standard double-layer DVD. At that point, you'll be able play HD media on any set-top box that will have an updated version of the Divx, Xvid or h.264 codecs. This is why the Blue-ray consortium is so keen to have their format in wide use right now. If the format war was still going on when the competing video codecs reach their holy-grail of delivering HD-content streaming online...This making the extra capacity of a BRD completely academic.

So, it is HD-DVD and not Blue-Ray that is superior in every way that matters to a home video viewer.

And, without competition from HD-DVD, there is going to be no pressure for the blue-ray consortium to lower their prices. Indeed, the consortium invested a shit-load of cash to make blue-ray dominant. This money wasn't a gift to the studios. The consortium expects to make the money back from..guess who..you! Good luck with that lower prices fantasy.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still going to buy a Blue-Ray player and it's going to be sweet.

[jae]

Also, because of the cost of bandwidth in delivering HD media over the internet. Pressure on video codec script writers will make it possible within 5-years to get a feature length film in full 1080P resolution on to a standard double-layer DVD.

source?

At that point, you'll be able play HD media on any set-top box that will have an updated version of the Divx, Xvid or h.264 codecs.
begs the question a bit doesn't it?

So, it is HD-DVD and not Blue-Ray that is superior in every way that matters to a home video viewer.

huh? where did you posit that HD-DVD > Blu-Ray? Also, I am a home video viewer and I prefer blu-ray. Sure it's cause I have a PS3 but I still prefer blu-ray.

And, without competition from HD-DVD, there is going to be no pressure for the blue-ray consortium to lower their prices.

Doesn't the fact that when DVD took over and it's prices dropped disprove that theory right out? New DVDs routinely sell for $15 as opposed to the $27 to 35 when DVDs first hit market.

[masherscf]

Source? What source, that's my guess. You guys are allowed to make grand predictions. Why not me? You're free to ignore it, of course. But, you have to think about the possibility.

Just what question does it beg? That fact that the Blue-Ray's large file size is just an anti-piracy measure. And, that adopting Blue-Ray as a standard will supress movie piracy on the internet...unless my conjecture above comes to pass.

I posited that HD-DVD is superior to Blue-ray just a few threads above. If you don't like that. How about, Blue ray is not superior to HD-DVD if your exempt disc capacity from the discussion. Because, disc capacity is irrelevant to the home-media experience. In all other aspects, Blue-Ray is equal or less than HD-DVD. Just because you have a PS3, doesn't make Blue-Ray the best choice for everyone.

When did DVD prices drop? I was an early adopter of DVDs. The price a pay for DVDs today about the same or higher than when I first bought them in 1999. Walmart has bulk DVDs they sell at a loss. But, new release DVDs are actually more expensive. Bargain DVD prices began when DVD-players went into general use in the population. But, prices for DVDs of recent theatrical films has always been between $20 and $35 depending on extra features.

I conjecture that Blue-ray adoption will be slower that DVD because of the poor initial market penetration of HD-TVs in general coupled with high-price players. A sub-$200 Blue-ray player will be nice and is a distinct possibility. You should not expect the prices of BRD to go down significantly any time soon.

[jae]

Source? What source, that's my guess.
If that's the case I apologize. It seemed rather specific, I thought maybe you had some knowledge of what was going to happen.

Just what question does it beg? That fact that the Blue-Ray's large file size is just an anti-piracy measure. And, that adopting Blue-Ray as a standard will supress movie piracy on the internet...unless my conjecture above comes to pass. Actually, that's the question it begs. You said that would all happen, but only if, IF, they figure out how to stream 1080p (or did you say 1080i, I forget.) You stated they were only 5 years out like it's a fact and then backpedal on it being a guess.

I posited that HD-DVD is superior to Blue-ray just a few threads above.
Again, I apologize. I missed that.

Just because you have a PS3, doesn't make Blue-Ray the best choice for everyone.
I never said it was the best choice for everyone, just for me.

When did DVD prices drop? I was an early adopter of DVDs. The price a pay for DVDs today about the same or higher than when I first bought them in 1999. Walmart has bulk DVDs they sell at a loss. But, new release DVDs are actually more expensive. Bargain DVD prices began when DVD-players went into general use in the population. But, prices for DVDs of recent theatrical films has always been between $20 and $35 depending on extra features. I guess I get lucky on dvds then, I either buy them when they're first released or don't. Plus I use amazon.com for a lot of purchases and haven't noticed too many DVDs near $30 a pop. Blu-ray discs, yes, but not DVDs.

I conjecture that Blue-ray adoption will be slower that DVD because of the poor initial market penetration of HD-TVs in general coupled with high-price players.
That we agree on. I will probably buy Blu-ray movies but only because the store across the street from my apartment sells them for $15, and how do you argue with that price? You do not, that is how.

[masherscf]

Mind you, since I bought the HD drive for the 360, I've purchased a grand total of four HD-DVDs plus one free with the drive. I've been very hesitant to embrace the format because I felt the wind was against it. I mostly use the HD-DVDs from Netflix. But, recently the waiting times for those discs has been getting longer and longer. It doesn't surprise me that Netflix decided to bail on HD-DVD altogether and focus on Blue-Ray. Focusing on Blue-Ray is a good decision for them at this time. They'll be able to focus they're resources on getting more BRD and shorten the waiting time for those.

I planned to buy a PS3 at Christmas, but I had to replace about $350 of camera equipment and My wife wanted a Wii. I'll purchase a PS3 within six months, when I recover from Christmas spending.

[cooljammer00]

i cant believe the war is over.

i fought against unification! and blu ray.

[jae]

I planned to buy a PS3 at Christmas, but I had to replace about $350 of camera equipment and My wife wanted a Wii. I'll purchase a PS3 within six months, when I recover from Christmas spending.

oh definitely! i've bought ONE blu-ray movie, the pixar collection. but as i mentioned earlier, $15 blu ray movies across the street makes it really hard not to buy them.

[gonzooo]

As far as procedural textures? If I can have 25 or 50 GB of game, why wouldn't I want it? Just because you can fit .kkrieger onto a dual layer blu-ray disc over 4 million times*, doesn't make it a deal. Game companies aren't going to start doubling, tripling, 4 million-ing games onto a disc just because they can, it'll be 1 to 1 regardless of game size. So if they want to fill the disc up with highly specialized textures to make the game more varied, good, do it. Why would you complain about that?

I complain because there will never be pressure to make advancements in smart programming if all you're going to spend money on is art guys at a game company. The increased disc space means we'll continue to go overboard with textures and various art stuff, while not really adding stuff to the games.

If you made advancements in the actual design and creation of the games instead you'd be able to (with procedural methods) create more content with less space usage, thus enabling you to make more out of a standard DVD than we will get with a one/two layered HD-DVD/Blu-Ray disc. The need for new disc readers wouldn't be there.

EDIT: Clarification...
The point of smart design and programming is efficiency. Utilizing good methods in creating the game enables you to fit your game, even though it's actually a "bigger" game, in less space, thus enabling you to continue to sell standard DVDs instead of being a slob about it and adopting costly and largely unnecessary alternatives.

[wizmaster]

But Betamax is the superior format. Why would you want to go with an inferior product. The cost for Betamax tapes should start coming down soon anyway. Why would you WANT to go with an inferior piece of technology i.e. VHS?

Not getting involved but I thought this post was funny.

Superior formats rarely win because being "superior" means more then just the technology.

[masherscf]

Not getting involved but I thought this post was funny.

Superior formats rarely win because being "superior" means more then just the technology.

You could also use the same argument for the PS3 vs. the Wii. The PS3 is clearly a superior machine but they sell every Wii they make...

But, such arguments are just masturbatory exercises... The world is going to be Blue-Ray, we'll have to suck it.

[heyseuss]

But, such arguments are just masturbatory exercises... The world is going to be Blue-Ray, we'll have to suck it.

I've tried erecting an argument, but so far nothing's coming. ;)

[masherscf]

I've tried erecting an argument, but so far nothing's coming. ;)

They have pills for that now.

[heyseuss]

They have pills for that now.

I don't know if you remember, but you've said those exact words to me before. Vey funny.

[masherscf]

I don't know if you remember, but you've said those exact words to me before. Vey funny.

It's one of my top five comedy lines.. phrases guaranteed to get a laugh when inserted randomly in conversations.

1. They have pills for that now.
2. That's what she said.
3. That's not what you said last night.
4. Last time that happened, I didn't walk straight for a week.
5. Oh?

[heyseuss]

2. That's what she said.


One of my favs. If applied where it doesn't really apply, it still works and is even funnier.

[kilroyperrywinkle]

One of my favs. If applied where it doesn't really apply, it still works and is even funnier.

Thats what she said.

[MaxTheSilent]

My biggest hope for all this, in light of how it appears to be turning out, is that in 6-8 months time, when every single stand-alone Blu-Ray player owner in the world is faced with the 'choice' (and I use that word very loosely) of upgrading to the Profile 2.0 players, that they'll take off their Blu-Boi blinders and realise that this wasn't an accident.

It was a decision made from Day One by the BDA to not finalise and enforce a standard future-proof spec into the machine across all manufacturers. The BDA willingly allowed manufacturers to withold vital hardware components at their discretion in order to shave a few bucks of an already exorbitantly expensive format. With the notable exception of the PS3, which was going to sell no matter how expensive it was.

And if you go to Blu-Ray.com and read any of the 'Profile 2.0' articles you'll read nothing but the words 'highly-anticipated'. I suppose 'long-delayed' doesn't really have much of a ring to it.

And in the end, the greatest thing that could possibly happen is a class action lawsuit against the BDA for allowing this to happen. And hopefully this current Samsung lawsuit is the start of that.

[satori]

It's one of my top five comedy lines.. phrases guaranteed to get a laugh when inserted randomly in conversations.

1. They have pills for that now.
2. That's what she said.
3. That's not what you said last night.
4. Last time that happened, I didn't walk straight for a week.
5. Oh?

I'm a man of simple means, I have one word that covers all of this:

Cooter