Gays cause earthquakes!

[ryudo]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7255657.stm

Must be some damn good sex to get a country a rockin! :eek:
================================================== =================================


OK honestly bad jokes aside I can't believe people are so intolerant to target a group of people on a natural disaster,really sickens me.

[xibalba]

Darn you Badger! :D

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some people are beyond stupid. If something humans do causes quakes its their hate.

[rabidbadger]

If Isreal is rockin, don't come a knockin!

[rabidbadger]

adds new meaning to "You rocked my world"

[tokenuser]

I want to make a pun about the "Gayza Strip" ... but that would be in poor taste.

[ryudo]

adds new meaning to "You rocked my world"
:D:cool:

[rabidbadger]

don't blame gays, blame the bisexuals.

AC/DC: "you shook me all night long"

[tokenuser]

AC/DC: "you shook me all night long"
AC/DC: Some balls are held for charity
And some for fancy dress
But when they're held for pleasure
They're the balls that I like best

Gotta love AC/DC lyrics.

[rabidbadger]

"big balls" was the theme song for my dorm! We where the Fighting Cockerels.

[masherscf]

AC/DC: Some balls are held for charity
And some for fancy dress
But when they're held for pleasure
They're the balls that I like best

Gotta love AC/DC lyrics.

Typical middle-school giggle-fodder... AC/DC was quite popular in the mid-eighties.

[rabidbadger]

Our "fight song" was:

I'm a dormie,
I'm a dormie,
I'm a dormie, through and through,

but I'd rather be a dormie
than a fucking Sigma Nu

[rabidbadger]

(giant snowball fight ensued)

[rabidbadger]

My nickname was "scrunge" I have no Idea why.

[ariastar]

AC/DC: Some balls are held for charity
And some for fancy dress
But when they're held for pleasure
They're the balls that I like best

Gotta love AC/DC lyrics.

When I was a kid, I didn't get the other meaning of this song. I didn't even think of balls in the sense of events, and didn't understand how "she's got big balls," but laughed my ass off at a song about nads. My early years were AC/DC and Ozzy. Bark at the Moon (Oz, I know) was my fave song when I was about three, and I loved it so much my parents had to get two records because I would scream if they tried taking it from me to play it.

[ariastar]

You know, I don't know about gays causing earthquakes. There was a pretty good one in my bedroom last night that left me sore this morning. So unless Cody's hiding something from me...

BADGE! Did you turn my boyfriend gay? You bastard! :D

(You know I love you!!)

[acidburn]

Don't forget that gays also cause hurricanes and terrorist attacks too! :)

http://www.datelinehollywood.com/archives/2005/09/05/robertson-blames-hurricane-on-choice-of-ellen-deneres-to-host-emmys/

[masherscf]

You know, I don't know about gays causing earthquakes. There was a pretty good one in my bedroom last night that left me sore this morning.

TMI 45

[rabidbadger]

You know, I don't know about gays causing earthquakes. There was a pretty good one in my bedroom last night that left me sore this morning. So unless Cody's hiding something from me...

BADGE! Did you turn my boyfriend gay? You bastard! :D

(You know I love you!!)


I would NEVER do that to you. but (there is always a big butt. /peewee )If he wants to go bi, I won't question why ;)

[techliveadmin]

Back to topic....

Gays causing earthquakes! Being a person from a religous ISLAMIC background, I can see where he is coming from. I mean ISLAM, Judaism and some Christianity does preach against it. However there are others who say it is right. Personally I guess in the end we will all know the truth. However for now I must re iterate that we must not hate the person but if we do have something agsint someone we should condemn the act as a way of expressing our displeasure.

The punishment for having same sex relations is death...yes you are giving chances but if you persist well I guess as MUSLIMS we have no choice. That's why same sex relations are not present in most Arabic nations.

[masherscf]

The punishment for having same sex relations is death...

A punishment we all share eventually...

[magunwarrior]

A punishment we all share eventually...

Unless you're the Highlander.

[techliveadmin]

However masherscf, God can be merciful and we all may receive painless or painful deaths. The most noble death a man can die is a death while he is on the path of righteousness.

[masherscf]

However masherscf, God can be merciful and we all may receive painless or painful deaths. The most noble death a man can die is a death while he is on the path of righteousness.

I'm not sure I want to go near that, It's kinda scary.

BTW, I think the OP meant this to be a humorous thread.

[techliveadmin]

Unless you're the Highlander.

Or Vampires or Martha Stewart.....

[esophagus]

However there are others who say it is right.Saying people call it "right" insinuates there are people who believe the opposite is wrong.

Straight men are going to hell.I must re iterate that we must not hate the person but if we do have something agsint someone we should condemn the act as a way of expressing our displeasure.Are you the self-proclaimed "Bible-Warrior" from Trading Spouses? If not, you might get along.The punishment for having same sex relations is death...yes you are giving chances but if you persist well I guess as MUSLIMS we have no choice. That's why same sex relations are not present in most Arabic nations.I hear same-sex marriage is the new assisted suicide.

(Just trying to inject some humor, where it's gone)

[ariastar]

Back to topic....

Gays causing earthquakes! Being a person from a religous ISLAMIC background, I can see where he is coming from. I mean ISLAM, Judaism and some Christianity does preach against it. However there are others who say it is right. Personally I guess in the end we will all know the truth. However for now I must re iterate that we must not hate the person but if we do have something agsint someone we should condemn the act as a way of expressing our displeasure.

The punishment for having same sex relations is death...yes you are giving chances but if you persist well I guess as MUSLIMS we have no choice. That's why same sex relations are not present in most Arabic nations.

Cutting hair, shaving, eating hoofed animals, wearing cloth woven from blended materials, and eating crops grown in the same field as a different crop are also punishable according to the bible, some by being stoned to death. So why are these not the cause of earthquakes?

[esophagus]

Cutting hair, shaving, eating hoofed animals, wearing cloth woven from blended materials, and eating crops grown in the same field as a different crop are also punishable according to the bible, some by being stoned to death. So why are these not the cause of earthquakes?Let's not jump down his throat. He says he knows that no one really knows the truth, and that's the best anyone can do. There's nothing about the after-life, or the role of a higher power in our current life, we can ever be sure about.

Let's get back to having fun, gay, earthquakes.

[rabidbadger]

Back to topic....
That's why same sex relations are not present in most Arabic nations.

Because you kill them all?

[rabidbadger]

L

Let's get back to having fun, gay, earthquakes.

I had a fun gay earthquake just last night! ;)

[masherscf]

I had a fun gay earthquake just last night! ;)

I just wanted to be hugged!

[tokenuser]

The punishment for having same sex relations is death...yes you are giving chances but if you persist well I guess as MUSLIMS we have no choice. That's why same sex relations are not present in most Arabic nations.Yeah ... right.

And muslims don't drink alcohol, have premarital sex, or watch porn. Sure they do ... but they just hide it better.

[ariastar]

The punishment for having same sex relations is death...yes you are giving chances but if you persist well I guess as MUSLIMS we have no choice.

Let's not jump down his throat.

If Muslims have "no choice" but to kill gay people because it's against the holy word, then why are people allowed to live for doing other things also punishable by death according to the holy word? You can't arbitrarily pick and choose which rules to follow without expecting criticism. Follow them ALL or none at all, but don't say, "I'm going to pick 1, 2, and 4," and expect me to be okay with it unless you can give damned good reason for ignoring 3, 5, and 6. Especially when 3 would call for a friend of mine to be killed, while you are committing 5 and 6 while saying it.

[rabidbadger]

I just wanted to be hugged!

you were hugged. afterward.

[heyseuss]

you were hugged. afterward.

Hugging and hanging on for better grip aren't the same.

[ariastar]

you were hugged. afterward.

I hope you washed your hands first!

[techliveadmin]

Actually we do enforce ALL laws, that is in Muslim nations whose laws are governed by the SHARIA law (Islamic law). Iraq is a volatile state so, its laws are mixed up due to American Democracy, Iran has the Sharia law, Saudi Arabia, most parts of Pakistan.

You have to understand most Muslim countries do enforce the Sharia law, the law is not mandatory but it is heavily emphasised that countries should enforce it. Our law maybe what you call harsher but it gets the job done.

As for tokenuser, I take that as an insult. Yes I admit there are muslims who do those things, but most of us do not. As I said above states which have imposed the Sharia, DO NOT HAVE:

Porn
Alcohol
Pre Marital Sex ( male and females are separated at ALL times)

And trust me Muslims do not hide, it is part of our religion to speak out against the wrong, even within yourself or of your family so that help can be obtained.

No hard feelings token...

[rabidbadger]

I feel so sorry for you and the limited life you will live. Not dissuading you. Your choice. Just don't inflict it on others. You know, like killing rape victims with stones..

[rabidbadger]

attribution... (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D0DE6D81E39F934A25756C0A9649C8B 63&n=Top%2FReference%2FTimes%20Topics%2FSubjects%2FW% 2FWomen)

[techliveadmin]

Being fair, when you rape someone, you take much more than you can ever imagine. You stone them publicly, you desist others, you allow the victim to get revenge and some sort of comfort. Today in may seem babaric, but 100 years back, it was the norm for other religions, including Chritianity ( beheadings/hanginsg).

[rabidbadger]

dude. did you read the article? Obviously not. the rapist is free, the victim is in prison.

[techliveadmin]

Posted then read it lol

Thats why I just came back to post.

I cannot comment on the article for several reasons:

1) I cannot confirm neither deny what has been said.

2) It is wrong per say if the female did NOT seek help. It is stated that her parents turned her away..

3) If not by us (muslims), the man will be punished in the hereafter.

4) I agree, that particular law is perfect. However the judges who enforce it need to think before they act. They will have to answer to God.

[masherscf]

but 100 years back, it was the norm for other religions, including Chritianity ( beheadings/hanginsg).

Um, hello? 100 years ago was 1908. No Christian Church has been responsible for the prosecution and punishment for capital crimes in some centuries. Not only that, at least one of the two major Christian denominations openly opposes the death penalty under any circumstances. proper Christian Dogma does not recognize revenge as a legitimate motivation. Indeed, revenge is a deadly sin. And, western nations have never practiced stoning.

Now, if you were an uppity women, you might have been drowned for being a which in seventeenth century New England and stealing a horse would get you the business end of a noose in the nineteenth century American west. But, that sort of frontier justice has no place in any 21st century nation.

[tokenuser]

As for tokenuser, I take that as an insult. Yes I admit there are muslims who do those things, but most of us do not. As I said above states which have imposed the Sharia, DO NOT HAVE:

Porn
Alcohol
Pre Marital Sex ( male and females are separated at ALL times)

And trust me Muslims do not hide, it is part of our religion to speak out against the wrong, even within yourself or of your family so that help can be obtained.

No hard feelings token...Yeah ... OK. No hard feelings .. but I hope that one day you grow up and realise that there is a much wider world out there beyond the teachings in the Koran (Qur’ān). Denying actions does not make those actions disappear. I know that many Muslim coutries that practice Sharia law to greater and lesser extents (and I am pointing to Pakistan and Saudi Arabia and ESPECIALLY the Sultanate of Brunei) that those things are far more commonplace than you might think.

Personal experience? No. First hand knowledge? No. But I'll trust the word of a close business associate who was constantly in/out of Islamabad and Kurachi, and a (lets say) "flamboyant" second cousin who was an architect for the Sultan of Brunei.

BTW - Did you realise that ham is a secret addiction to many Jews, and lots of Mormons drink coke and coffee? SAY IT ISN'T SO! I guess they'll be burning in what ever level of hell I am doomed to inhabit as well. Maybe not though - I have a connection (via marriage) to the founding head of a major religious organisation (and I don't mean tenuous link to an Islamic prophet that everyone claims) ... perhaps he will give me a get out of hell free card?

[ryudo]

I just got back from a video game party hosted by mainly Mormon people (I live in Utah) and guess what even though the Religion is against caffeine, they had Mountain Dew there...OH MY GOD THEY ARE ALL SINNERS! :eek:

[damnedeyez]

I just got back from a video game party hosted by mainly Mormon people (I live in Utah) and guess what even though the Religion is against caffeine, they had Mountain Dew there...OH MY GOD THEY ARE ALL SINNERS! :eek:

not caffeine-free? woah

[ariastar]

Actually we do enforce ALL laws, that is in Muslim nations whose laws are governed by the SHARIA law (Islamic law).

Explain how gays cause earthquakes please.


You have to understand most Muslim countries do enforce the Sharia law, the law is not mandatory but it is heavily emphasised that countries should enforce it. Our law maybe what you call harsher but it gets the job done.

This is contradictory. Following laws in mandatory, yet the Sharia law, which is enforced, is not mandatory.

And what job gets done? Killing lots and lots of people to the point that other countries want to bomb your asses right back to the stone age? You're no less safe by someone being gay.


And trust me Muslims do not hide, it is part of our religion to speak out against the wrong, even within yourself or of your family so that help can be obtained.

Yeah, same with Christianity. But that doesn't prevent it from happening. You've got the most devout, like you sound, who follow it to the letter as much as possible, and are in denial that others can exist of the same religion and be less devout, and then you've got those who are of the same religion, but aren't so strict. Plenty of Christians engages in pre-marital sex, though it it explicitly forbidden in the bible. It's safer for people to talk about it. I'd bet you ANYTHING it happens on some level in Islamic areas, but people don't talk about it for fear of death. And yeah, I'm sure men, who hold the power, aren't complaining about the forced servitude of women.

You may think the rest of the world improper, but I assure you, most of the rest of the world thinks that forcing faith (true faith can't be forced, but faith practice can be faked) and keeping women as objects rather than equals, with rights, is barbaric.

[ariastar]

Posted then read it lol

Thats why I just came back to post.

I cannot comment on the article for several reasons:

1) I cannot confirm neither deny what has been said.

2) It is wrong per say if the female did NOT seek help. It is stated that her parents turned her away..

3) If not by us (muslims), the man will be punished in the hereafter.

4) I agree, that particular law is perfect. However the judges who enforce it need to think before they act. They will have to answer to God.

I really want to hit you. You're lucky to not be in my presence. Even if you think the man will be punished in the afterlife, you fail to address the victim being sentenced to death by stoning. You CAN comment, give your thoughts on whether this is right or wrong, but I'm going to have to presume you agree she should die as you've said nothing about her life mattering, only that the man will be punished.

The law putting her to death and letting him walk is NOT perfect. Oh my god, I can't believe you actually said that.

[tokenuser]

BTW - Just want to say I am not anti religion, ANY religon. I do not have a problem with anyone practising a faith or belief system. I am against people practicing blind faith though, and taking religious teachings literally, rather than as the parable that they are presented as.

Your faith only gets stronger if you continually question it - poking and prodding at it giving a deeper meaning and a contextual interpretation as appropriate for modern society.

Picking on a simplistic example - Kosher and Halal foods ... each of these were taught not for religious reasons, but as sanitary food practices at a time when the only teaching given to the general population was via religios instruction. So, given modern food handling and sanitary practices, why are Kosher and Halal food handling standards still practiced? Because it is the way it has always been done.

I'll also add that sodomy was also an accepted practice between husband and wife during Victorian times - because it allowed a man and woman a level of intimacy without the need for contraception ... which would have been against the teachings of the Catholic Church.

[ariastar]

I just got back from a video game party hosted by mainly Mormon people (I live in Utah) and guess what even though the Religion is against caffeine, they had Mountain Dew there...OH MY GOD THEY ARE ALL SINNERS! :eek:

A friend of mine is dating a guy from a Mormon family, and I consider him to be a friend too. No coffee, no caffeine of any sort, basically no fun. She nearly had a mental break down when they went to Utah to visit his family for Christmas. He left Mormonism and I don't think will ever go back.

[popltree2]

4) I agree, that particular law is perfect. However the judges who enforce it need to think before they act. They will have to answer to God.

You are making an awfully big assumption based on absolutely no evidence and, in reality, very little hear-say. That big assumption is that there is a God. Think about this: if we die and there is, as I believe, no God then the perpetrator gets off without so much as a stern word. Then there is no justice. Why not administer the punishment when we know it can be given instead of relying on something we don't even know for sure exists??? It's like relying on Santa to bring you presents or leave you coal. Guess what, kiddies, there is no Santa!

That being said, I don't think religious ideology has any place in these boards. Sharing beliefs is one thing, but trolling based on religious dogma. Please, check your rhetoric at the door and wipe your feet.

[ariastar]

BTW - Just want to say I am not anti religion, ANY religon. I do not have a problem with anyone practising a faith or belief system. I am against people practicing blind faith though, and taking religious teachings literally, rather than as the parable that they are presented as.

Your faith only gets stronger if you continually question it - poking and prodding at it giving a deeper meaning and a contextual interpretation as appropriate for modern society.

Blind faith isn't faith. It's ignorance. When I was a child, I went to a private Christian school that did encourage us to question our own beliefs. That which requires faith can't be proven either way, but, if it light of all sides you still believe, then you've got faith.


Picking on a simplistic example - Kosher and Halal foods ... each of these were taught not for religious reasons, but as sanitary food practices at a time when the only teaching given to the general population was via religios instruction. So, given modern food handling and sanitary practices, why are Kosher and Halal food handling standards still practiced? Because it is the way it has always been done.

And kosher hot dogs are the only ones I'll eat. Because certain animals parts are allowed to be used, I feel more confidence that I'm not eating a brain. But aside from that, which has no real relevance, yes, this did start out of practicality. And now it's a tradition held among a group of people who have, pretty much since the beginning of time, been outcast for one reason or another. But it doesn't deny anyone rights, nor do Jews (at least that I've met who still practice kosher) look down on those who don't.


I'll also add that sodomy was also an accepted practice between husband and wife during Victorian times - because it allowed a man and woman a level of intimacy without the need for contraception ... which would have been against the teachings of the Catholic Church.

Protestantism was on the rise in Victorian America. And there are plenty of Christians out there who believe that to not have sex with a spouse when arousal comes on is to den a gift from god. There's a belief that god only gives children when he wants the couple to have them, and that financial concerns shouldn't be taken into consideration as the lord will always provide, even if in the form of welfare availability.

[ariastar]

You are making an awfully big assumption based on absolutely no evidence and, in reality, very little hear-say. That big assumption is that there is a God. Think about this: if we die and there is, as I believe, no God then the perpetrator gets off without so much as a stern word. Then there is no justice. Why not administer the punishment when we know it can be given instead of relying on something we don't even know for sure exists??? It's like relying on Santa to bring you presents or leave you coal. Guess what, kiddies, there is no Santa!

That was my thought.

Wouldn't she be punished in the afterlife too if being a victim is indeed wrong? Why let the man be off in this life? Or is it to give him a few more happy years and end her happy years early?

And what do you mean there's no Santa?! (btw, great analogy with the coal.)


That being said, I don't think religious ideology has any place in these boards. Sharing beliefs is one thing, but trolling based on religious dogma. Please, check your rhetoric at the door and wipe your feet.

Religious trolling is what I feel believe is going on. Too many posts by this guy have been about the laws of Islam that I'm close to blocking his posts simply because I am confident enough that whatever is said will be about how Islamic law is right, how he was raised is the proper way because of Islam, etc..

[ryudo]

A friend of mine is dating a guy from a Mormon family, and I consider him to be a friend too. No coffee, no caffeine of any sort, basically no fun. She nearly had a mental break down when they went to Utah to visit his family for Christmas. He left Mormonism and I don't think will ever go back.
I lived in Utah all my life and I only get frustrated that people judge them mostly on untrue stereo types and I am not in full agreement with any religion really but I have found mormon religion to be one the most kind and giving people and do the most charity work I ever seen..they will pay your rent give you groceries offer you paying jobs if in a rut and are often the first ones to respond to natural disaster victims like the 2004 tsunami and katrina and every day they send mass amounts of clothing/food and school supplies to poor countries and you don't have to join the church or feel obligated to do anything they just do it.

The missionary stuff of knocking on your door like a salesman I don't agree with and I do admit the culture in the past here in utah overall was not in my taste but getting to know them better and wish more people did do this with more cultures and explore more cultures people would be less judgemental.

(no none of this is directed at you. just saying this in general)

I hate to sound like some miss america cliche shit but I do wish people would stop spending so much energy on finger pointing and hatred towards others.

[ariastar]

I lived in Utah all my life and I only get frustrated that people judge them mostly on untrue stereo types and I am not in full agreement with any religion really but I have found mormon religion to be one the most kind and giving people and do the most charity work I ever seen..they will pay your rent give you groceries offer you paying jobs if in a rut and are often the first ones to respond to natural disaster victims like the 2004 tsunami and katrina and every day they send mass amounts of clothing/food and school supplies to poor countries and you don't have to join the church or feel obligated to do anything they just do it.

The missionary stuff of knocking on your door like a salesman I don't agree with and I do admit the culture in the past here in utah overall was not in my taste but getting to know them better and wish more people did do this with more cultures and explore more cultures people would be less judgemental.

(no none of this is directed at you. just saying this in general)

I hate to sound like some miss america cliche shit but I do wish people would stop spending so much energy on finger pointing and hatred towards others.

I'm not saying anything bad about Mormons. I may think Joseph Smith was a con, but I've got nothing against modern Mormons. Yes, they are far more likely to help when needed. And they are more accepting. possibly because they themselves are so commonly ostracized.

But it's not a stereotype that most eschew caffeine. It's a substance that CAN alter brain function and increase hyperactivity. Sure, a lot still drink it, but a lot don't. For my friend, it was a shift she wasn't prepared for. In fact, when they went, they were told before making the decision to fly out that they could stay together. When they got there, his family had decided that unchaperoned time at all would actually be an improper thing as he has younger siblings who'd know their big brother and his girlfriend were alone. Both were angry that they were told one thing, then it ended up being another to the point that they went and stayed with his brother. His family's unexpected decision, pretty much while my friends were in the air, caught them unaware and they had no plan of not being able to spend any time alone on their first Christmas together (doesn't mean sex, but hell, if they wanted to cuddle, what's the problem?).

But in general, Mormons as people are pretty kind-hearted, even if I don't agree with their beliefs. I separate the person from the belief, unless their belief won't let them respect me. In that case, I'm not going to deal with it since they won't deal with me.

[ryudo]

I separate the person from the belief, unless their belief won't let them respect me. In that case, I'm not going to deal with it since they won't deal with me.

I very much agree and am the same way.

[skyz]

I hate to sound like some miss america cliche shit but I do wish people would stop spending so much energy on finger pointing and hatred towards others.

people only hate other people because they at some level hate themselves

faith based religions have a lot to do with self hatred as they teach that you are born a sinner and your very nature is sinful

you are not born a sinner and your true nature is wisdom

[tokenuser]

I'm not saying anything bad about Mormons. I may think Joseph Smith was a con, but I've got nothing against modern Mormons.Will people say the same thing about L Ron Hubbard and the CoS in 100 years time?

I have worked with several Mormons in the past. They are were great people ... some of the nicest, most genuine folks I have ever had the pleasure of meeting. Not at all "preachy" like many religious people, but more than happy to answer questions about their faith. Even their missionary work - knocking on doors, meeting people in malls, etc., serves a purpose - and that is building character, and allowing them to question their beliefs so that they become stronger and more comfortable with them.

As far a religious zealotry is concerned, I would prefer to come across two Mormons wearing black pants, white shirts, black ties, riding bicycles in the mall than a car bomber looking for a fast track to heaven and thier promised 77 virgins.

[skyz]

There's a belief that god only gives children when he wants the couple to have them, and that financial concerns shouldn't be taken into consideration as the lord will always provide, even if in the form of welfare availability.

many people die of starvation or curable diseases every day so that lord is doing a very poor job of things

but that lord provides a convenient excuse of not caring about those people after all they are his responsibility and no concern of ours

our concerns are of course when do i get my mac air

or if you are apple (insert any other multinational corporate entity) 'how many mac airs (insert other product) will we ship'

now bill gates (no matter what you think of microsoft) thinks 'it is my responsibility to the best of my ability'

[masherscf]

As far a religious zealotry is concerned, I would prefer to come across two Mormons wearing black pants, white shirts, black ties, riding bicycles in the mall than a car bomber looking for a fast track to heaven and thier promised 77 virgins.

Victims at Mountain Meadows (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_Massacre) might not be able to make the same claim.

[ryudo]

Victims at Mountain Meadows (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_Massacre) might not be able to make the same claim.


That was because of a miscommunication and the fact at that time they were always fighting for their lives as mormons were constantly under heavy fire everywhere they went and murdered...they were paranoid then and also this is 2008 not the 1850's so that post holds no relevance.

[tokenuser]

Victims at Mountain Meadows (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_Massacre) might not be able to make the same claim.The attack would have been nowhere near as successful if they had been riding bicycles. Also, the white shirts would have made them stand out at night. Not particulalry effective for a stealth attack.

Although, it is rumoured that on a clear night in the area of the massacre, you can hear the distant ding-dinging of bicycle bells ... so perhaps you are right.

[ariastar]

but that lord provides a convenient excuse of not caring about those people after all they are his responsibility and no concern of ours

The bible provides a lot of excuses and work-arounds.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Children have faith, and are often used as examples of faith. LUKE 18:17 "Truly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it."

Children believe. We may not understand how it is that God works faith in children, except that we know that God’s Word has great power, and that faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God, so children, even before birth, have opportunity to hear the Word of God, and for the Holy Spirit to work faith in their hearts.

Of course children believe!! They believe in Santa and the Easter Bunny and stop believing when rational thought sets in and adults stop playing along and there's no risk of being cast aside for not believing. Hell, they believe in the boogey man. It's ignorance, imagination, and an incapacity to form full, adult rational thought.

But the verse that sealed it for me to leave the church is the first one. The bible expects me to believe it without question, without thought, and completely ignorantly, like a child. I used to use that verse to defend why I believed in something irrational, and it hit me one day that it was an excuse.

[ariastar]

Will people say the same thing about L Ron Hubbard and the CoS in 100 years time?

I have worked with several Mormons in the past. They are were great people ... some of the nicest, most genuine folks I have ever had the pleasure of meeting. Not at all "preachy" like many religious people, but more than happy to answer questions about their faith. Even their missionary work - knocking on doors, meeting people in malls, etc., serves a purpose - and that is building character, and allowing them to question their beliefs so that they become stronger and more comfortable with them.

As far a religious zealotry is concerned, I would prefer to come across two Mormons wearing black pants, white shirts, black ties, riding bicycles in the mall than a car bomber looking for a fast track to heaven and thier promised 77 virgins.

I thought it was 72. :) Interesting how sex is denied on earth as being so terrible so that it can be used as a reward after death.

I like Mormon people and I like Jewish people.

I think, in 100 years, either CoS will cease as a "religion" or will be accepted at near the stage Mormonism is accepted now. Something else will come along as the "new religion" and everyone will criticize.

[ariastar]

people only hate other people because they at some level hate themselves

faith based religions have a lot to do with self hatred as they teach that you are born a sinner and your very nature is sinful

you are not born a sinner and your true nature is wisdom



That upset me as a child. One of the first Sunday school class I remember scarred me. The teacher said how we were all born sinners, and I knew sinners were bad. So I was born a bad girl. And I was upset and confused because I didn't know what I did wrong as a tiny baby who was just born. We're not supposed to want things or steal or lie or anything, and I knew that I couldn't talk to lie, couldn't steal, so thought that I wanted my mom to feed me so it was bad of me to want food. I figured I was a born-sinner because I was probably hungry and wanted food. I was five. We'd just moved to Modesto. By the following year I had formed serious doubts.

[heyseuss]

looking for a fast track to heaven and thier promised 77 virgins.

Dennis Miller: 77 virgins. 77 virgins !?!? You know, I enjoy the befuddled thing as much as the next guy, but about 20 virgins in, I'm gonna want a finger up my ass, and for that I'm gonna need a pro.

[ryudo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ANrvQC4wIk

[heyseuss]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ANrvQC4wIk

Bill Maher: .... whatever it takes to divert the attention from the war and the onslaught of fuck-ups this man has caused. Last year the issue was gay marriage, this year it's immigration. Brown is the new pink.

[skyz]

That upset me as a child. One of the first Sunday school class I remember scarred me. The teacher said how we were all born sinners, and I knew sinners were bad. So I was born a bad girl. And I was upset and confused because I didn't know what I did wrong as a tiny baby who was just born. We're not supposed to want things or steal or lie or anything, and I knew that I couldn't talk to lie, couldn't steal, so thought that I wanted my mom to feed me so it was bad of me to want food. I figured I was a born-sinner because I was probably hungry and wanted food. I was five. We'd just moved to Modesto. By the following year I had formed serious doubts.

it is awful to be made to feel shame / guilt when you are actually innocent

and very confusing

and leads to looking at others as 'worse' to alleviate the burden (which is bs anyway)

even the law requires 'mens rea' or an evil will / guilty mind for something to be a crime yet religion gives people a priori evil wtf is up with that :confused:

my bff when i was about 7 was the daughter of a baptist minister and we would discuss religion

one day i said 'about this covet bit tell me when you see a girl in a great dress you aren't going to want it'

and she says 'no i would want one exactly like it' :D

i thought that was genius

[rabidbadger]

one day i said 'about this covet bit tell me when you see a girl in a great dress you aren't going to want it'

and she says 'no i would want one exactly like it' :D

i thought that was genius


that's great. no wonder she is your bff. I covet her! :)

[techliveadmin]

So Aria u like Jews and Mormons, what about Muslims lol?

[heyseuss]

This article is condescending and prejudice. As a straight man, I want some earthquake causing responsibility, for all the hard work I put in between 16-25.

[phatlip12]

So Aria u like Jews and Mormons, what about Muslims lol?

I think Aria likes nice people in general whether they be Jewish, Mormon, Muslim, Christian...

[techliveadmin]

ooooo well in that case I sure do hope I am nice.......I mean the rest of you all are nice, well beside that one guy, you know the one with the lip, yeah that one, yep hes constantly mean to me and for some reason he thinks hes black......he calls himself "phat" and for all I really know he just maybe 12 years old!

lol...no hard feelings mate, just bored as hell, have an exam in the morning I probably going to get full marks in.....btw Phatlip did you ever read the email I sent you??

[rabidbadger]

hey techlive. educate me... what is the (SWT) and (PBUH) in your sig?

[techliveadmin]

Allah (subhanahu wa ta`ala) which is Allah (SWT). Which is God's full name and it means Praise be to He (God). PBUH means Peace be upon him, it can also be translated as Upon Whom Be peace. For more info on God's name from an Islamic view check

http://www.jannah.org/articles/names.html

So my sig in english well what it means with SWT and PBUH is

Praise be to Allah, Lord of the World'S and Peace and Blessings Upon Prophet Muhammad.

[esophagus]

At first he seemed like a mild-mannered man who stuck his neck where it shouldn’t go. Thought it was best not to cuss him for it, and hope he realized that humor was originally intended to fill this thread. I see now I was wrong, and do apologize Aria, for telling you to cease and desist. Now, I’m here for a debate.

Back to topic.…This is not back to topic. Apparently you missed that. To get back to topic we would be talking about how funny that article was. No, you chose to throw us way off of the beaten path.
Gays causing earthquakes! Being a person from a religous ISLAMIC background, I can see where he is coming from.Being a person of most heavily religious backgrounds, you would see where it was coming from. This doesn’t make it right. I can’t honestly tell you it’s wrong either, though. Someday I may wind up in hell, because god thought the way I cut my hair is bad. There is no telling. This does not mean I am going to tie myself down in an attempt to assure an “after-life” I’m not even sure exists. Especially not by bringing down others, to achieve my own righteousness. Any man who believes their religion has provided them with a basic guideline of how to live correct and/or lovingly should be able to grasp that. I mean ISLAM, Judaism and some Christianity does preach against it. However there are others who say it is right. Personally I guess in the end we will all know the truth. There are claims to the existence, and lack of, aliens. Yet, I am sure you personally have chosen a side on whether or not they exist. It’s an extremely similar issue. Don’t pussyfoot around whether or not you agree with the Islamic belief. However for now I must re iterate that we must not hate the person but if we do have something against someone we should condemn the act as a way of expressing our displeasure.I’m going to have to disagree. There is a difference between condemning something, and simply not condoning it. Despite what people think, deciding that you think homosexuality is wrong, and choosing to have nothing to do with it, is a much better answer than saying “You are a nice person, but you’re going to hell for the things you do”. And I’m not trying to tie myself down to the issue of homosexuality here. This basic principle can reach into any religious issue you can throw at me, this one just seems to be the topic at hand.The punishment for having same sex relations is death...yes you are giving chances but if you persist well I guess as MUSLIMS we have no choice. That's why same sex relations are not present in most Arabic nations.Underage drinking is not allowed in North America. Smoking pot is illegal in North America. For christs sake, if I lived in Alabama, it would be illegal for me to play dominoes on a Sunday. Does committing any of these acts condemn me to hell? A beautiful gown with a tear in it, is still flawed despite its beauty. You have to be able to pinpoint these things, and say “you know what, I think there is an aspect of my faith I’d be better off without”, instead of rationalizing every law to make sense of the ones that you do agree with. Be objective.However masherscf, God can be merciful and we all may receive painless or painful deaths. The most noble death a man can die is a death while he is on the path of righteousness.What about the noble man who dies a tragic death? Why should your opinion of him be sullied because it looks like God gave him something that he very well may not have deserved. We’ll come back to that.Actually we do enforce ALL laws, that is in Muslim nations whose laws are governed by the SHARIA law (Islamic law). Iraq is a volatile state so, its laws are mixed up due to American Democracy, Iran has the Sharia law, Saudi Arabia, most parts of Pakistan.

You have to understand most Muslim countries do enforce the Sharia law, the law is not mandatory but it is heavily emphasised that countries should enforce it. Our law maybe what you call harsher but it gets the job done.I call bullshit. Let’s say I put a $1000 bill on my patio. Everytime someone sees it, and tries to pick it up, I walk outside and promptly shoot them in the chest. The first man dies. Another comes, another dies. Another comes, another dies. At this point three are dead, and it has finally sunken in that this money is not to be fucked with. This got the job done. Does that mean I’m right?
As for tokenuser, I take that as an insult. Yes I admit there are muslims who do those things, but most of us do not. As I said above states which have imposed the Sharia, DO NOT HAVE:

Porn
Alcohol
Pre Marital Sex ( male and females are separated at ALL times)

And trust me Muslims do not hide, it is part of our religion to speak out against the wrong, even within yourself or of your family so that help can be obtained.It is in your best interest to stop generalizing. As long as you continue to liken yourself to the entire Muslim community, you continue to open yourself to their flaws. If you follow the laws to a T, then explain that to us. You are not all, and all are not you.Being fair, when you rape someone, you take much more than you can ever imagine. You stone them publicly, you desist others, you allow the victim to get revenge and some sort of comfort.Did you not read the article? The victim is the one dying, and the man is getting away. This tells any women who have been raped that their options are to let the suffering continue or go through public humilation and death. It tells them it was their fault. To the men, the rapists, it is saying that they have nothing to fear in continuing such a practice, as they very likely don’t care about the morality of the situation, if sex without consent is considered okay.Today in may seem babaric, but 100 years back, it was the norm for other religions, including Chritianity ( beheadings/hanginsg).Find me some examples of capital punishment, enforced by the Christian religion and not a government, in 1908, and I may acknowledge this. I’m having trouble finding any.I cannot comment on the article for several reasons:

1) I cannot confirm neither deny what has been said.You can take as much of an objective opinion as anyone else here. If anything, you have more insight.
2) It is wrong per say if the female did NOT seek help. It is stated that her parents turned her away...If she had been to scared to come forward, she would have deserved her punishment? Any reason why?
3) If not by us (muslims), the man will be punished in the hereafter.Give me one example of definitive proof of the after-life. There is none. While many people, at times myself, like to believe in one, it is not something we can rely on. There is no utopian Anarchist society functioning, now, and there never has. If there was, it would have little to do with expecting all punishment to come after death. People must be held accountable, to stop future actions, and to repent for past actions.
4) I agree, that particular law is perfect. However the judges who enforce it need to think before they act. They will have to answer to God.Why should the woman be killed? Even if the man were killed, why kill her too?So Aria u like Jews and Mormons, what about Muslims lol?Again, I don’t think anyone is trying to come down on a religion as a whole. You just need to be able to be objective, and have reasonings behind your belief. Blindly following your faith gives us nowhere. If you’d like to believe rape victims deserve to be murdered, there’s very little I could do to stop you from thinking so, but I’d proably do even less if you can not only tell me that your God believes it’s accurate, but why he might feel that way.ooooo well in that case I sure do hope I am nice.......I mean the rest of you all are nice, well beside that one guy, you know the one with the lip, yeah that one, yep hes constantly mean to me and for some reason he thinks hes black......he calls himself "phat" and for all I really know he just maybe 12 years old!

lol...no hard feelings mate, just bored as hell, have an exam in the morning I probably going to get full marks in.....btw Phatlip did you ever read the email I sent you??With the spelling and grammar mistakes, combined with your lack of free-thinking ability, I’m going to assume you hope he’s twelve so you have someone to play with. If you want anyone to take you seriously, try acting seriously.

[ariastar]

So Aria u like Jews and Mormons, what about Muslims lol?

I like people in general until given reason not to, but you haven't made a very good case.

[ariastar]

it is awful to be made to feel shame / guilt when you are actually innocent

and very confusing

and leads to looking at others as 'worse' to alleviate the burden (which is bs anyway)

even the law requires 'mens rea' or an evil will / guilty mind for something to be a crime yet religion gives people a priori evil wtf is up with that :confused:

Well, if you can be made to feel that the only way to not go to hell is to do what the church tells you, you'll be a slave and cut off your own hand if desperate enough. It's a great cult!


my bff when i was about 7 was the daughter of a baptist minister and we would discuss religion

one day i said 'about this covet bit tell me when you see a girl in a great dress you aren't going to want it'

and she says 'no i would want one exactly like it' :D

i thought that was genius

Genius or a great bit of self-deception. :) Technically wanting something at the store is to want something that belongs to someone else, in this case, whoever owns the store. I've been to many, many churches, and one I only went to once said that wanting anything at all is to want something that doesn't belong to you, and coveting is bad, only want what you already have. And I wondered what about wanting the basics you've run out of, like food? Am I a sinner doomed to hell for that? And what kind of a god would give us natural human tendencies and then call us bad for being HUMANS? Seems like an evil god I wouldn't want to worship. Telling me to go torment myself by denying I'm human and accepting that I'm an evil sinner from the moment of birth...

[ariastar]

At first he seemed like a mild-mannered man who stuck his neck where it shouldn’t go....

I think this is the single best post I have ever seen on this forum. (And apology not needed - there've been a couple of users who post what seem like a mild thread, until you realize the actual intent was to cause, and I tend to get involved in those.)

Cody and I have wondered if this guy isn't some sort of troll. Regardless of whether it's a thread on wearing underwear or not or gays being the cause of earthquakes, he ALWAYS finds a way to drag his religion into it and preach. I don't know what either of those two topics had to do with abortion, but it got dragged in with talk of his religion. I'm pro-life, so am not complaining because I am a pro-choicer pissed at a pro-lifer, but there isn't a need to drag it up every possible chance.

If someone's sole reason for thinking a certain way is "because someone else said so," and there's no proof that that someone even existed, then I have a hard time respecting the belief as anything more than willful ignorance. If I were to say being straight will send you to hell because the invisible pink unicorn said so in a book it supposedly wrote a thousand years ago, you'd think I was nuts. Well, that's what this gays-going-to-hell-because-god-said-so says to me, insanity. Give me reason why that may be, aside from because-someone-said-so.

Esophagus, every single point you made is right on. You're on my favorite people list now - you earned a ton of respect at once. I do whatever the female-equivalent of tipping my bat or bowing is to you.

[ariastar]

TO TECHLIVEADMIN:

This is a question I've been biting back for a few days now. Already you have branded yourself as the Islamic guy who won't shut up about it (in almost every thread you reply in you find a way to bring up your religion, no matter what the topic is) and who thinks it's okay for a raped woman to be killed for it while the rapist walks free.

So I want to know this. What is your thought of women on the internet and having the relative freedoms women like Sky and I have? Since in your culture you see it as okay for a victim to be murdered, it would seem that women have no value aside from bearing baby boys. Do you think women should be banned from the internet? If your laws are all but absolute and you have "no choice" but to kill gays, do you think my friend Joel should be killed?

I am having a VERY hard time not being offended by what you seem to be saying, and I am hard to seriously offend.

[heyseuss]

[COLOR="Magenta"]
Cody and I have wondered if this guy isn't some sort of troll.

Are you talking about Techliveadmin or Crumbles?


I do whatever the female-equivalent of tipping my bat or bowing is to you.[/COLOR

Courtsey.... wow, I don't know how to spell that do I ? Kirtsy. Curt-c. Kertsee. Now it just seems like an alien sound.

Aria you need to stop being affected by Techliveadmin's preaching, he's not a bad person, he's just brainwashed and has been raised with blinders on in a shielded bubble. Those are good reasons to ignore his preachings, but the best reason is, he's 15.

[heyseuss]

and I am hard to seriously offend.[/COLOR]

:eek: :confused:

[skyz]

[COLOR="Magenta"]Genius or a great bit of self-deception. :) Technically wanting something at the store is to want something that belongs to someone else, in this case, whoever owns the store. I've been to many, many churches, and one I only went to once said that wanting anything at all is to want something that doesn't belong to you, and coveting is bad, only want what you already have. And I wondered what about wanting the basics you've run out of, like food? Am I a sinner doomed to hell for that? And what kind of a god would give us natural human tendencies and then call us bad for being HUMANS? Seems like an evil god I wouldn't want to worship. Telling me to go torment myself by denying I'm human and accepting that I'm an evil sinner from the moment of birth...

i think you have been way too heavily indocrinated or dogmatized over this

it is thou shalt 'not covet what is thy neighbors' and if someone is selling something as long as you don't want to not pay then you are ok

however in buddhism the very process of craving can lead to the suffering of dissatisfaction so limiting your coveting is advised not demanded

if you are content and serene with what you have you tend to be more happy

[phatlip12]

Let see who can take a hint:

http://www.oubipaws.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/duty_calls.png

[tokenuser]

Aria you need to stop being affected by Techliveadmin's preaching, he's not a bad person, he's just brainwashed and has been raised with blinders on in a shielded bubble. Those are good reasons to ignore his preachings, but the best reason is, he's 15.Can I give you an "Amen" or a "Halleluyah brother"?

[heyseuss]

Can I give you an "Amen" or a "Halleluyah brother"?

I'm honestly not bothered by what he says, in fact, I'm even a little impressed that he has a grip on the meanings of what he actually regurgitates, unlike those jesus camp kids who answer, "****ots?", to the questioin, "what do you call dead soldiers?", not comprehending the questioin or answer. And, I've actually seen him partaking in plenty of threads completely un-zealot-like, and isn't that bad at all.

And thanks for the amen and hallelujah, but I'm not that religious, although I am highly spiritual, so just tip your drink in my direction. :)

[techliveadmin]

To Aria:

In my post I never said I agreed to the woman being killed. Ok I guess it is time to open up just a bit. I must admit to you all that I am from a muslim family, however I have a 'father' who I have disowned for what he has done to me. I have scars all over my body, I can't live a normal life. My 'father' is not a muslim, he loves alcohol so thats his religion. When he gets drunk he beats myself, my mother and my little brother. My body is filled with scars.

I am a muslim and I have faith and that is what keeps me from falling apart. If you don't believe in religion, thats ok with me, that is your business I can't interfere with your views and I can't force you to change them. What you must understand though, is that if thats what makes you comfortable ok, for me ISLAM makes me comfortable.

It is niot preaching what I do. My views are based on Islam, so if I make a mistake here or there I will let you all know where I have wronged. However I must EMPHASISE the point that the Judge was wrong, Of course the woman must live. He made a bad ruling, however it is in the best interest of the female to seek help. No because I cannot confirm nor deny the story I choose NOT to comment on it.

As for killing gays, what I did not mention is that in Islam we do give people chances. However I must obey my religion and if it is that what you cannot like or be my friend for, then ok. I rather God than anything else by my side. I need God.

I am not violent or hatred, but I am sorry for those who have felt offended but understand these are my opinions and views andw e are all entitled to our own.

[trogdor719]

Those are good reasons to ignore his preachings, but the best reason is, he's 15.

I must say I resent that! :p I'm fifteen and you don't see me doing that (hopefully)


Basically I'm very against intolerance. This story is ridiculous. What, do they think all the gays got together and started shaking the earth? Haha. No, personally I think people just use religion as a excuse for making fun of someone or putting down a group of people. All this darn fervor about gays and gay marriage is crazy! Oh religion, why have you let me down again?! (I'm Jewish by the way)

I'm honestly not bothered by what he says, in fact, I'm even a little impressed that he has a grip on the meanings of what he actually regurgitates, unlike those jesus camp kids who answer, "****ots?", to the questioin, "what do you call dead soldiers?", not comprehending the questioin or answer.

Those people (Jesus camp kids, as you so rightly put it) get pretty annoying. I get on quite a bit of debate blogs on the internet and there is always one person yelling 'YOU'RE GOING TO HELL IF...' or 'G-D LOVES ME BECAUSE...' We need more people that just say what they want nicely. I mean, where in the bible does it say you should yell at others and make them feel worse? (techliveadmin I'm not referring to you. I've read what you said and have no problems. I even like a lot of your points)

[rabidbadger]

Techlive, dang!

I'm the one who should be "insulted" by the "kill the gays" stuff, but I'm not. I knew you were young and limited in your experiences. So wasn't gonna judge you. Just wanted you to question your beliefs. But from what you just wrote, then all I wanna say is... You go girl! ;)

If Your religion gives you the strength to survive the hell you are going through, then more power to you! Just a few more years, when you can escape (and hopefully take your mother and brother with you) and then learn about the rest of the world a bit, then I'll argue with you about philosophy and religion. Until then you have my full support and want you to take care of yourself as best you can, anyway you can...

Be Strong!

[tokenuser]

To Aria:

In my post I never said I agreed to the woman being killed. Ok I guess it is time to open up just a bit. I must admit to you all that I am from a muslim family, however I have a 'father' who I have disowned for what he has done to me. I have scars all over my body, I can't live a normal life. My 'father' is not a muslim, he loves alcohol so thats his religion. When he gets drunk he beats myself, my mother and my little brother. My body is filled with scars.

I am a muslim and I have faith and that is what keeps me from falling apart. If you don't believe in religion, thats ok with me, that is your business I can't interfere with your views and I can't force you to change them. What you must understand though, is that if thats what makes you comfortable ok, for me ISLAM makes me comfortable.

It is niot preaching what I do. My views are based on Islam, so if I make a mistake here or there I will let you all know where I have wronged. However I must EMPHASISE the point that the Judge was wrong, Of course the woman must live. He made a bad ruling, however it is in the best interest of the female to seek help. No because I cannot confirm nor deny the story I choose NOT to comment on it.

As for killing gays, what I did not mention is that in Islam we do give people chances. However I must obey my religion and if it is that what you cannot like or be my friend for, then ok. I rather God than anything else by my side. I need God.

I am not violent or hatred, but I am sorry for those who have felt offended but understand these are my opinions and views andw e are all entitled to our own.So, you are not from a muslim family, but have been attracted to the faith due to the actions of your father? That actualy explains a lot. Sounds like you have been attracted to a particularly literal cleric. Nothing wrong with faith, or the koran, but faith is not absolute, and the koran, like the bible, is not a literal textbook, it is a guidebook.

Mohammed and his teachings were actually very progressive, with all people being treated equally - men AND women. The segregation of women in the Islamic faith came much much later, and was largely instigated by clerics as a means of controlling the population.

If you are new to the faith, look beyond the koran, and look at the history of Islam as well.

[techliveadmin]

Thanks, I more than appreciate it. I am a sensitive guy when it comes to my emotions. I am always looking for support and if I can get it here, that would be great guys. I thank you for understanding badger. I have scars on my back, my leg and hands. Most importantly on my heart. You see people having fun with their dads, you know like playing football (what we call soccer) or cricket or fixing cars and all those great things. Me, I can't leave my home, I am always being cursed at, abused, its tough. Like I said in my thread with 'real people'. I am myself on the internet, I can open up more. It gives me what I miss. Close unbounded free with just a hint of love from the guys here who understand. Lets just see how long before I can escape what I am going through.....

I honestly hope none of you all have gone through what I am going through and well if any of you want to talk about it, well I am willing to discuss, its best to let it out that bottle up your emotions, I have self destructed so many times, just find faith and watch yourself go. My faith is Islam and I found what I need and with you guys by myside, I am more than sure when I need extra support I got you guys and gals to count on!

[techliveadmin]

To Token:

I am from a musim family...my moms side, not my fathers. I found my religion at 12 years old, same time I started watching TechTv actually lol.....

Fully found my love for my religion about 2 years back and have been progressing ever since.

[esophagus]

I am not violent or hatred, but I am sorry for those who have felt offended but understand these are my opinions and views andw e are all entitled to our own.First off, I'd like to say thanks to Aria. Glad you liked my post.

Now to you, Tech. I realize my post comes off harsh. I can only assume in this post that one of the people you are apologizing to is me. I know you aren't trying to offend. I know you aren't a troll. I agree with everyone else that you are just sheltered, and no nothing different. That is what I was addressing. In the last bit of my post I said, there is no way for me to stop you from thinking the way you do. I can't. I honestly wasn't trying to start an argument, I'm just trying to get you to put some thought into your faith. If you want to continue to follow Islam, and defend it to people like us, you need proofs and reasoning. Blind faith is never a good thing. I felt you were coming off as arrogant and oblivious, and I replied as such.

Takes a good person to admit to a fault, or back down even when right, and I applaude you for it.

[heyseuss]

I must say I resent that! :p I'm fifteen and you don't see me doing that (hopefully)


Not at all man.... boy, girl.. I don't know you.


Basically I'm very against intolerance.

I know you didn't mean this, but that strikes me as hilarious. I'm not laughing at you, I'm laughing at the word joke.

All this darn fervor about gays and gay marriage is crazy!

gay marriage leads to bestiality according to,.. um, what are they called, the ones that argue this kind of stuff,..idiots. The other hilarious argument the idiots always have about gays, is the 'gays in the military'. They say that they can't have gays in the military because a gay soldier will spend to much time looking at the other soldiers -guns- while trying to get into their -foxhole-. This argument amuses me while I recall that Bush recruited 250'000 ex-convicts into the military in 2005 for the war. Sooooooo, somehow gays are a threat, in their possibly small proportion of military population percentage (pppppp), yet the fact that the entire REST of the military is made up of straight men raping striaght women isn't a problem. 80%......

EIGHTY FUCKING PERCENT

of female soldiers were raped by male soldiers in iraq in less than a year. Female soldiers were dieing from urine toxification because they didn't want to go to the latrines at night because it was isolated and that's where most of the raping occurred.


Oh religion, why have you let me down again?! (I'm Jewish by the way)

Jews let themselves be pushed around, they know why they are chosen, they don't feel the need to get too preachy. According to both christians and jews, jesus was a black jew, I like that nobody really acknowledges that.

[ryudo]

but the best reason is, he's 15.

Older than I thought.
Honestly thought he was more like 13.

[heyseuss]

Older than I thought.
Honestly thought he was more like 13.

Age assumption online isn't a very accurate practice. I sure as hell don't act 32 on here.

But perhaps you can cut him a little slack, I don't think it's too far a stretch for you to partially place yourself in his 15 yr old, alcoholic father situation.

[masherscf]

That was because of a miscommunication and the fact at that time they were always fighting for their lives as mormons were constantly under heavy fire everywhere they went and murdered...they were paranoid then and also this is 2008 not the 1850's so that post holds no relevance.



I point it out just to illustrate that fear, persecution, misinformation and miscommunication combined with a belief in one's own righteousness can result in tragedy for even the most well-meaning and peaceful folk.

The church if LDS has a tradition of assumed superiority to others because a purity of theology and an entitlement to heaven unique to their religion.

You need to acknowledge the parallels with modern Islam and how easily a feeling for parochial superiority can lead to atrocity. Of course, this is by no means characteristic of only these two religions.

There is scarcely a major world religion, as LDS as evolved into, that can claim a clean record. Mainstream Christianity started out in much the same manner, small, persecuted and banished. But, Christians grew to be responsible for some of the most atrocious acts in western history. But, not just against non-Christians. Christians have happily slaughtered themselves over small disagreements over the interpretation of the same text.

It's alway easy to kill someone if you feel they are not chosen by God or otherwise damned.

Just be careful, okay. Religion and spirituality is an important thing. Just be smart about it.

[heyseuss]

There is scarcely a major world religion, as LDS as evolved into, that can claim a clean record. Mainstream Christianity started out in much the same manner, small, persecuted and banished.

10'000 christians, as to 6 million pagan's during ancient romes height.

[ryudo]

Age assumption online isn't a very accurate practice. I sure as hell don't act 32 on here.

But perhaps you can cut him a little slack, I don't think it's too far a stretch for you to partially place yourself in his 15 yr old, alcoholic father situation.

It wasn't meant as an insult it was just a simple statement.*shrug*

[heyseuss]

It wasn't meant as an insult it was just a simple statement.*shrug*

Oh I didn't think you were insulting him dude, not at all. 2 yrs difference in your guess doesn't mean much, just saying, and using me as an example, that age isn't too easy to guess here. And just opposite to your assumption, Aria has been treating him like an adult the whole time.

[trogdor719]

Not at all man.... boy, girl.. I don't know you.

Boy :D


I know you didn't mean this, but that strikes me as hilarious. I'm not laughing at you, I'm laughing at the word joke.

Ha I didn't expect anyone else to see it. I realized that when I read back through it.

gay marriage leads to bestiality according to,.. um, what are they called, the ones that argue this kind of stuff,..idiots. The other hilarious argument the idiots always have about gays, is the 'gays in the military'. They say that they can't have gays in the military because a gay soldier will spend to much time looking at the other soldiers -guns- while trying to get into their -foxhole-. This argument amuses me while I recall that Bush recruited 250'000 ex-convicts into the military in 2005 for the war. Sooooooo, somehow gays are a threat, in their possibly small proportion of military population percentage (pppppp), yet the fact that the entire REST of the military is made up of straight men raping striaght women isn't a problem. 80%......

EIGHTY FUCKING PERCENT

of female soldiers were raped by male soldiers in iraq in less than a year. Female soldiers were dieing from urine toxification because they didn't want to go to the latrines at night because it was isolated and that's where most of the raping occurred.

Oh people *sigh*

Jews let themselves be pushed around, they know why they are chosen, they don't feel the need to get too preachy. According to both christians and jews, jesus was a black jew, I like that nobody really acknowledges that.

I agree 79%! It's always my favorite when some Christian is bashing my religion even though Jesus was Jewish. The black part I didn't know. Interesting...

[heyseuss]

I agree 79%! It's always my favorite when some Christian is bashing my religion even though Jesus was Jewish. The black part I didn't know. Interesting...

What race does it say he is in the Tanakh ?

[trogdor719]

What race does it say he is in the Tanakh ?

Not sure. Really I'm raised Jewish but have my own beliefs. I haven't read that into it. I'll have to look. I'm not sure if it even mentions it.

[ryudo]

Oh I didn't think you were insulting him dude, not at all. 2 yrs difference in your guess doesn't mean much, just saying, and using me as an example, that age isn't too easy to guess here. And just opposite to your assumption, Aria has been treating him like an adult the whole time.
Fair enough.

[heyseuss]

Not sure. Really I'm raised Jewish but have my own beliefs. I haven't read that into it. I'll have to look. I'm not sure if it even mentions it.

Of course it mentions it, I'd say there is plenty of mention of it. I'm not jewish but I know alot of them and I've had discussions with a few of the very jewish older ones and learnt that. I shtuped one for a while.

[trogdor719]

Of course it mentions it, I'd say there is plenty of mention of it. I'm not jewish but I know alot of them and I've had discussions with a few of the very jewish older ones and learnt that. I shtuped one for a while.

Oh cool I'll have to go check it out. Thanks!

[heyseuss]

Oh cool I'll have to go check it out. Thanks!

ask your parents maybe.. .. also I'm not sure whether it's in the tankh or torah... I only retain my jewish info for a short while, until some new jewish info hits my ears and confuses me. I love yiddish, but everytime I learn some, I forget some.

[esophagus]

Really didn't know he was black. Knew he wasn't white. Always took him to be middle eastern, as it was the only way to make sense of both geography and the way he looks in most artistic renderings. I've looked into it now, and I guess basically wherever you go, he's painted as the race of that country. That's either complete arrogance, or a whole new level of global faith. Black makes sense though.

[phatlip12]

Proof that he was black? From my understanding he looked middle eastern (darker skin) but not black. It would make sense that he had a middle eastern sort of appearance based on where he was from.

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/12/25/face.jesus/index.html

[heyseuss]

Proof that he was black? From my understanding he looked middle eastern (darker skin) but not black. It would make sense that he had a middle eastern sort of appearance based on where he was from.


Well I'm not talking about African-American black. And 'middle-eastern' is vague, there are 'blacks' within that slice.

[esophagus]

Proof that he was black? From my understanding he looked middle eastern (darker skin) but not black. It would make sense that he had a middle eastern sort of appearance based on where he was from.

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/12/25/face.jesus/index.html
Jesus looks like the love child of Al from Home Improvement, and Jon Goodman. That would make him a real god.

[tokenuser]

I agree 79%! It's always my favorite when some Christian is bashing my religion even though Jesus was Jewish. The black part I didn't know. Interesting...Think about where he was born, and when. Might not have been black, but he was not a "fair skinned european" either ... darker middle eastern complexion for sure.

Its funny though, because I always thought Jesus was Latino ...

==============
I should have read further on in the thread. I guesss the middle eastern connection was already made. Hey, guess what? He and Mohammed could have been brothers! Isn't it funny that everyone agrees on the first half of the story, but the jews think thats were the story should have stopped, the christians thought it ended one way, the muslims thought it ended a different way, and the mormons decided to add a sequel. Just like a DVD with alternate endings ... and then you get the CoS crowd who think it should have been a SciFi movie from the start.

[heyseuss]

Think about where he was born, and when. Might not have been black, but he was not a "fair skinned european" either ... darker middle eastern complexion for sure.

Its funny though, because I always thought Jesus was Latino ...

I'm not, I just live in los angeles.

[masherscf]

If Jesus wasn't born with a little color, that hot Galilee sun probably gave him some. I once mistook George Hamilton for Jesus.

[ariastar]

To Aria:

In my post I never said I agreed to the woman being killed. Ok I guess it is time to open up just a bit. I must admit to you all that I am from a muslim family, however I have a 'father' who I have disowned for what he has done to me. I have scars all over my body, I can't live a normal life. My 'father' is not a muslim, he loves alcohol so thats his religion. When he gets drunk he beats myself, my mother and my little brother. My body is filled with scars.

I am a muslim and I have faith and that is what keeps me from falling apart. If you don't believe in religion, thats ok with me, that is your business I can't interfere with your views and I can't force you to change them. What you must understand though, is that if thats what makes you comfortable ok, for me ISLAM makes me comfortable.

It is niot preaching what I do. My views are based on Islam, so if I make a mistake here or there I will let you all know where I have wronged. However I must EMPHASISE the point that the Judge was wrong, Of course the woman must live. He made a bad ruling, however it is in the best interest of the female to seek help. No because I cannot confirm nor deny the story I choose NOT to comment on it.

As for killing gays, what I did not mention is that in Islam we do give people chances. However I must obey my religion and if it is that what you cannot like or be my friend for, then ok. I rather God than anything else by my side. I need God.

I am not violent or hatred, but I am sorry for those who have felt offended but understand these are my opinions and views andw e are all entitled to our own.

What's going on with your "father" (I agree with quotes - being a sperm-donator doesn't make a man "father") sucks, that's foru sure, and I wouldn't fault you if you snapped and killed the bastard. My dad liked alcohol a bit much too, and it led to his death and almost mine and my mother's.

I can understand turning to a religion for the support you feel, but having this be the reason isn't very good. You need to have faith you would have come to on your own. Otherwise you are looking for a crutch.

I have friends of all races, creeds, nationalities, and religions, from Scientologists to Muslims to Jews and even a Satanist. We understand that we won't agree on many things, but respect that and do Not bring up our religions (or lack thereof) at every possible chance, forcing it if need-be. We understand that bringing it up all the time isn't going to help. If I want to know more about a Satanist's beliefs, I can ask, and Magno knows that, no need to preach. If a Jewish friend wants to know more about being an agnostic who is a bit more Pagan, he can ask. That's that. No need to push and use religion as an explanation to everything when it's not. I'd rather hear your personal thoughts without hearing some quote from a book or someone else's thoughts that you accept without question.

Look, a lot of religions were formed with some political influence. Christians often ignore the counsel of Niccea (sp?), where religions leaders from all over gathered and debated what would go into the Christian bible, what wouldn't, what would be changed, even what holidays would be celebrated and when. It's nothing at all like it once was, yet most Christians believe the politically-motivated bible. I doubt any religion is without at least some political influence. If there is no reason for something hateful, such as murdering gays, then ask yourself why you are going to hate.

You are 15 and a newcomer to your religion. To test your faith, you need to be willing to learn more, apply independent thought, and be open to criticism. If you can't answer something, you need to admit it and learn more on that question.

[ariastar]

Thanks, I more than appreciate it. I am a sensitive guy when it comes to my emotions. I am always looking for support and if I can get it here, that would be great guys. I thank you for understanding badger. I have scars on my back, my leg and hands. Most importantly on my heart. You see people having fun with their dads, you know like playing football (what we call soccer) or cricket or fixing cars and all those great things. Me, I can't leave my home, I am always being cursed at, abused, its tough. Like I said in my thread with 'real people'. I am myself on the internet, I can open up more. It gives me what I miss. Close unbounded free with just a hint of love from the guys here who understand. Lets just see how long before I can escape what I am going through.....

I honestly hope none of you all have gone through what I am going through and well if any of you want to talk about it, well I am willing to discuss, its best to let it out that bottle up your emotions, I have self destructed so many times, just find faith and watch yourself go. My faith is Islam and I found what I need and with you guys by myside, I am more than sure when I need extra support I got you guys and gals to count on!

My mother went through hell worse than this. In addition to beatings and starvation, her father also did sexual things to her that she still can't make herself talk about in detail. Her mother's brother intervened on several occasions when her father (technically her step-father - mer mother wouldn't let her biological father be a part of her life in a time when the court didn't care) was beating her to within an inch of her life. Whips, fists, even baseball bats. It's amazing any of them survived. When she got pregnant with me, her whole family pressured her for an abortion and cut her off completely. If she aborted, they'd take her back and she's had food. But she chose me.

So I grew up understanding the mindset of someone who went through terrible abuse. But pushing your beliefs if the wrong way to go about getting help. I'm not a licensed therapist but, as I said, I understand the mindset of someone who's been there. Send me an e-mail, ariaaustin at gmail dot com. We'll talk off-board about this.

[trogdor719]

Damn. There are a lot of messed up people in our world. If it's beating someone or blaming a group for nature, some people suck. I'm glad you are all here (Aria,tech, anyone else) :D