Yet Another Formats Discussion

[bmwt]

Hey folks,

as always, we're trying to make your revision3 viewing experience as simple and compatible as possible, to give you the choices in *how* to watch your media. Formats come and go, standards make things easier and harder, and we're forced to constantly evaluate what we offer. With that in mind, I'd like to get your feedback on some possible format changes here. Note that this is totally unofficial, and just so that we can get an idea of things to look out for.

As a totally imaginary example, what if the formats we offered were:

hd.h264.mp4 (720p, 2 megabit)
large.h264.mp4 (640x360, 1 megabit)
small.h264.mp4 (320x180, 500k)

hd.wmv9.wmv (720p, 2 megabit)
large.wmv9.wmv (640x360, 1 megabit)
small.wmv9.wmv (320x180, 500k)

large.asp.mp4 (640x360, 1 megabit)
small.asp.mp4 (320x180, 500k)

what this would mean:

1) no more quicktime containers. Going to mp4 would allow more devices (360, ps3) to playback, without reconverting.

2) no more avi. most devices that used to use xvid.avi could use the asp.mp4 (same codec video codec, different container. would be compatible with more small devices)

3) wmv-hd. it seems like wmv hd is mostly still using the wmv9 codec. and using vc-1 wouldn't help enough ppl

While i cant promise anything, i'm especially interested in ppl who's days would be completely ruined by this, and wouldn't be able to find a compatible format to use.

[tokenuser]

You might want to also consider the "I don't need no stinking video" crowd, and have MP3 as an option.

[comhcinc]

works for me. i always use quicktime

[darknessgp]

I like the idea of going to .mp4 with h.264, though I have a PS3 and it would be nice to just plug in my flash drive and watch rather then having to do some converting myself. The past month or two, I've just been grabbing the HD versions. I'd have to agree with you on the XVid, seems most people have stuff that handles .mp4 with h.264 or wmv.

My only real concern is is 2 Megabit bitrate going to give us what we expect from a 720p video?

[damnedeyez]

I can't say I have any issues with that 'proposal'...it'd be nice watching the HD version on a 52" instead of a 17"

[bmwt]

re: bitrate. right now it's a question of bw costs, and how long it takes people to download. We experimented a couple times with higher bitrates, and people complained that they were too big :) If bits were free and download times reached 0, we'd have 5 meg (or more) versions of everything. But yes, this is the kind of feedback we need. (and i'm all to aware of the limitations of 720p@ 1.5 to 2 megabit.)

thanks!

[md2389]

Honestly, I play either the HD versions or the Xvid AVI's on my home system. I'd rather you keep the AVI option if at all possible.

[bmwt]

Honestly, I play either the HD versions or the Xvid AVI's on my home system. I'd rather you keep the AVI option if at all possible.

Is it the quality of the encode that makes you want to use the .avi, or would an asp.mp4 not work in your setup. (if, in our imaginary scenario, the video was exactly the same). xvid.avi is a very finicky setup, with tiny code changes/updates disabling playback on many devices. The tier-ing of the two major mp4 codecs is very attractive from a distribution standpoint. While we cant support *every* codec and *every* device, the goal here is to get a good looking video that works on 99% of players.

[mic]

Honestly, I play either the HD versions or the Xvid AVI's on my home system. I'd rather you keep the AVI option if at all possible.

I too download either the HD or Xvid versions (depending on the show). Consider this another vote for keeping the large XviD version.

[bmwt]

I understand that lots of people currently use our xvid.avi. In many cases, it's because one of the other formats wont work on a device/player, and the xvid.avi is the only option. This problem can be adressed in many cases by the mp4 formats. In many other cases, its because that was the format people started with, and there was no need to change. Were xvid to go away tomorrow, what player/device would you have a problem with?

[darknessgp]

re: bitrate. right now it's a question of bw costs, and how long it takes people to download. We experimented a couple times with higher bitrates, and people complained that they were too big :) If bits were free and download times reached 0, we'd have 5 meg (or more) versions of everything. But yes, this is the kind of feedback we need. (and i'm all to aware of the limitations of 720p@ 1.5 to 2 megabit.)

thanks!


I can understand that, and I'm glad to hear that you guys understand the limitations of 720p at that bitrate, so you are not just an idiot running around screaming "We have HD content" kind of like how I feel Apple is doing with their "HD" videos...

Also, everyone that is throwing there hat in here needs to understand this isn't about what you are currently using, but what you could be using. For example, most devices that will play XVid will also play the asp in an mp4 wrapper, and apparently bmwt wants to know if that won't work for you, not necessarily if you just generally object to it not being what you are currently downloading.

[md2389]

Is it the quality of the encode that makes you want to use the .avi, or would an asp.mp4 not work in your setup. (if, in our imaginary scenario, the video was exactly the same). xvid.avi is a very finicky setup, with tiny code changes/updates disabling playback on many devices. The tier-ing of the two major mp4 codecs is very attractive from a distribution standpoint. While we cant support *every* codec and *every* device, the goal here is to get a good looking video that works on 99% of players.

Honestly, its merely a matter of convenience rather than something not working. When I don't sync them to my zune (which uses the large wmv iirc), I just grab whichever I think would be the most efficient in terms of download time to file size. (which would be nice to see again on the download page btw!)

[chad2382]

I personally don't care which format they are encoded in as long as I am able to stream them with wmp11 to my 360 or ps3. The only reason I switched to xvid was because the wmv was messed up for a very long time.

[swimmingpie]

If you are going to change anything, do whats best for Rev3. My only worry is about the xvid.avi format. My pmp doesn't support h.264 or mp4, but xvid is flawless(unlike the glitchy wmv). So please keep .avi if possible.

btw, What about mp3. I still remember having a slow connection about 8 months ago. Why not some love to the devoted dialers and let them have an mp3?

[bmwt]

My pmp doesn't support h.264 or mp4, but xvid is flawless(unlike the glitchy wmv).

which pmp do you have? And yes, we know lots of users still like mp3, this is mostly to gauge video-format and device support.

thanks!

[thecgmguy]

I use X-box Media Center to watch the shows and to my knowledge it's not compatible with h.264, quicktime, or wmv.

Consider this another vote to keep XVID.

-CGM

[bmwt]

I use X-box Media Center to watch the shows and to my knowledge it's not compatible with h.264, quicktime, or wmv.


Actually, xbmc will support gosh near anything you can throw at it, including h264, mov, wmv, mp4 ASP - Check out http://xbmc.org/wiki/?title=XBMC_Features_and_Supported_Formats/Codecs - good stuff :)

[spiri]

An HD mp4 would be sweet! That's all I would need. Right now I'm converting the mov to mp4 to watch on my HDTV via my PS3 (which should also play an HD wmv). It's not a huge problem using MPEG Streamclip, but it would be great just to get the mp4 directly :).

[minion4hire]

Dumping m4v for mp4 is definitely a good move. In the past I used to download Xvid a lot, mainly because (as others have noted) WMV was glitchy, and to be honest Xvid has always been rock solid.

More recently however I've switched to WMV, but only for streaming purposes. Frankly I may have just gotten lazy lately but I'm not big on saving videos to my hard drive any more, partially because they reside in the crevasse of some murky subdirectory for a year before their frantic rediscovery due to a complete lack of free space. As such I watch a lot of flash too :) but the new in-line ads might push me further into WMV. :(

I can understand why people are so attached to Xvid (I encode all my movies with it) but if you guys were to push mp4 I think a lot of opinions would change pretty quick, even if you were to just free h.264 from its quicktime cage and leave Xvid as is for the moment.

[blackbird1]

Nope, not much at all, I will adapt. I like the Xvid format cause I am big into free stuff, including codex, and I would rather you did not lose it, but if you gots to to move forward, then do as you must. As long as I have a way of watching the stuff from my XP and LINUX boxes, I will be fine.

[c2s]

I get the XVID so I can watch it on the PC or burn it amnd watch it on the DVD player.

[vdubb]

Please don't drop Xvid.

I burn all the shows to disc and watch on my dvd player. It does not recognize mp4 files, only avi, mpg, and mp3.

Save the Xvid format!

[ste116]

please keep small quicktime

[slonkak]

With all of this talk about codecs, why don't we think about size too?

Right now you offer 3 sizes, small, large, and HD. If you were to drop both small and large, replacing them with a medium, could you then give full 1080 HD while still meeting your current cost/time goals?

[toadx]

1) no more quicktime containers. Going to mp4 would allow more devices (360, ps3) to playback, without reconverting.

2) no more avi. most devices that used to use xvid.avi could use the asp.mp4 (same codec video codec, different container. would be compatible with more small devices)

Sounds good to me.

3) wmv-hd. it seems like wmv hd is mostly still using the wmv9 codec. and using vc-1 wouldn't help enough ppl

YES PLEASE! I WANT A WMV HD! This is very important.

[toadx]

With all of this talk about codecs, why don't we think about size too?

Right now you offer 3 sizes, small, large, and HD. If you were to drop both small and large, replacing them with a medium, could you then give full 1080 HD while still meeting your current cost/time goals?

I don't think small should be dropped. I personally use the small version on my Windows Mobile device. With the increase of portable media devices with screen resolutions much lower than those of computer screens, the small version will likely increase in usage.

[kichigaimentat]

XViD
In my opinion, figure out if people are willing to switch to H.264. I find it generally has better quality (though the HD H.264s have screwed up from tiem to time ;) ) and plays on nearly everything. The only reason I see to keep AVI is that some devices only do DivX/XviD, and the videos require considerably less processing power to play back. As far as hardware issues goes, why don't you guys speak to someone in the Open Source community and make a Linux/Mac/Windows "Revision3 MP4 ASP to AVI ASP Converter." It's just a container change and is possible the easiest command to issue in MEncoder ever. Literally!
mencoder {Input File} -ovc copy -oac copy -o {Output File}Why not just wrap it in a nice GUI for everyone so they can have their AVIs and you get to use MP4?

Small "QuickTime"
To be honest, the 320x180 irks me because I watch all of my small H.264 stuff on hardware with resolutions higher than that. My PSP runs at 480x272, the iPod plays back video as high as 640x480 (yes, it's screen is 320x240, but I'm noting this for compatibility reasons), and the iPod Touch/iPhone is 480x320. Hell, all versions of the Zune play videos up to 720x480 (though it's still got a 320x240 screen). These videos tend to look like half-chewed garbage when scaled up by the mobile video decoders. I vote bumping the videos up to 480x272 since 480 is the new 320, and it maintains compatibility with most of the popular devices, and on all popular devices won't look like garbage.

MP4 vs. M4V/MOV
This is a relatively minor and trivial issue. The MP4 container is essentially the MOV container, except with an open spec. As far as compatibility, the XBox with XBMC and the XBox 360 both have no problem with MP4, M4V and MOV. Can't speak for the PS3, but the PSP doesn't like M4V or MOV, so perhaps moving to the spec'd extension is a good idea, and shouldn't impact the actual content.

Metadata
Could we please start putting meta-data in the videos? I can understand not doing that with the AVIs (does AVI even have a full meta spec? I know you can do titles), but I know MP4 and MOV do, but outside of what's being grabbed by my podcatcher and put into its database, I'm not getting any meta. So when I throw my videos downloaded via Miro into my X360, I just get the file name, and the meta portion of the screen shows nothing (yes, the 360 does metadata in MP4s, look at the TED videos). Can't speak for the WMVs, which I just outright ignore because only my 360 would like them, and WMV in HD is not available (even if it was, I'd probably still go for the H.264).

WMVs
Why do we still have the WMVs? Everything plays MPEG-4/H.264, relatively few things play WMV (even fewer play WMVs exclusively). I can only think of the XBox 360 and Zune as a vehicle for WMVs, but even those devices do MP4. If we're looking to consolidate videos and reduce bandwidth, give WMV the axe. Plus, it gives Revision3 the ability to say "we only support open standards."

MP3s
Diggnation, Web Drifter, Internet Superstar, GigaOM Show, Tekzilla Daily (Maybe weekly) and the Totally Rad Show are great candidates for MP3 versions being published (though things like GigaOM's GigaBytes would be pretty hard to read ;) ), but I find it hard to listen to an episode of Systm, where a lot of the stuff is very visual would not be a candidate for an MP3... I'm going to shut up now.

[kichigaimentat]

YES PLEASE! I WANT A WMV HD! This is very important.

I think the inevitable question here (which is what would help our beloved webmaster, who is very attractive and intelligent) is why is this important? Why is VC-1 so important in your case, as opposed to H.264? Or why is VC-1 so important instead of WMV9? I, personally, can't think of a single case where WMV9/VC-1 is your ONLY option.

[md2389]

WMV supports meta data as well.

[sakyweeber]

This is a little bi off topic but can you guys make the flash video be able to pop-out in independent window... Hulu does something like that and it's very useful to watch a show and work in your computer at the same time

[kichigaimentat]

WMV supports meta data as well.

Yeah, I knew about audio metadata, and I figured they've expanded it more inclusively. I'm just not sure if Rev3 is embedding meta into the WMVs.

[far-beyond-driven]

I've just posted about something similar to this. Should've read the stickies ;)

I have little choice in what format I can download from revision3 with public access computers. I can only get the rev3 WMV encodes (which are unreliable these days) because the mouse right-click here is disabled (I need that popup save box). I'm pretty sure the download situation'll be the same all over England in Libraries ect. It's proberbly to stop clogging up the HDs with rubbish. No body can change this unless they had admin rights.

I really don't think they'd mind us downloading XviD/h2.64 rev3 shows to thumb drives if they knew, but they couldn't possibly make the changes to all of the computers - it' would take forever and would cost to send the engineers out ect.

Can something be done please to the downloads which would automatically bring up the popup save dialog box with left click?

Thanks.

[kichigaimentat]

Can something be done please to the downloads which would automatically bring up the popup save dialog box with left click?

Thanks.

I don't think there's much we can do: it's all about how the browser is configured, along with its plug-ins and add-ons.

Have you considered doing something like installing Miro on your flash drive, and using that? I mean, there's a billion podcatchers out there that have the potential to work, perhaps this is an option?

[far-beyond-driven]

That won't work because you can't install any apps.. It's another lockdown.

It should be possible to bring up the dialog box because file hosting services do that no matter what file type?

[darknessgp]

That won't work because you can't install any apps.. It's another lockdown.

It should be possible to bring up the dialog box because file hosting services do that no matter what file type?

Can you not run apps from a flashdrive? That is what he is saying, doesn't involve installing stuff on the machine you are using.

[wizmaster]

The removal of the quicktime cointainer would be awesome. That cointainer is a PITA.

[far-beyond-driven]

Can you not run apps from a flashdrive? That is what he is saying, doesn't involve installing stuff on the machine you are using.
I should've said, you can't run any app this isn't already installed.
I've tried everything I can do.

[md2389]

Yeah, I knew about audio metadata, and I figured they've expanded it more inclusively. I'm just not sure if Rev3 is embedding meta into the WMVs.

Click me (http://www.bakercountyonline.com/md-2389/DSCF1549.JPG)

[0to60forlife]

XViD
In my opinion, figure out if people are willing to switch to H.264. I find it generally has better quality (though the HD H.264s have screwed up from tiem to time ;) ) and plays on nearly everything. The only reason I see to keep AVI is that some devices only do DivX/XviD, and the videos require considerably less processing power to play back. As far as hardware issues goes, why don't you guys speak to someone in the Open Source community and make a Linux/Mac/Windows "Revision3 MP4 ASP to AVI ASP Converter." It's just a container change and is possible the easiest command to issue in MEncoder ever. Literally!
mencoder {Input File} -ovc copy -oac copy -o {Output File}Why not just wrap it in a nice GUI for everyone so they can have their AVIs and you get to use MP4?

Small "QuickTime"
To be honest, the 320x180 irks me because I watch all of my small H.264 stuff on hardware with resolutions higher than that. My PSP runs at 480x272, the iPod plays back video as high as 640x480 (yes, it's screen is 320x240, but I'm noting this for compatibility reasons), and the iPod Touch/iPhone is 480x320. Hell, all versions of the Zune play videos up to 720x480 (though it's still got a 320x240 screen). These videos tend to look like half-chewed garbage when scaled up by the mobile video decoders. I vote bumping the videos up to 480x272 since 480 is the new 320, and it maintains compatibility with most of the popular devices, and on all popular devices won't look like garbage.

MP4 vs. M4V/MOV
This is a relatively minor and trivial issue. The MP4 container is essentially the MOV container, except with an open spec. As far as compatibility, the XBox with XBMC and the XBox 360 both have no problem with MP4, M4V and MOV. Can't speak for the PS3, but the PSP doesn't like M4V or MOV, so perhaps moving to the spec'd extension is a good idea, and shouldn't impact the actual content.

WMVs
Why do we still have the WMVs? Everything plays MPEG-4/H.264, relatively few things play WMV (even fewer play WMVs exclusively). I can only think of the XBox 360 and Zune as a vehicle for WMVs, but even those devices do MP4. If we're looking to consolidate videos and reduce bandwidth, give WMV the axe. Plus, it gives Revision3 the ability to say "we only support open standards."

MP3s
Diggnation, Web Drifter, Internet Superstar, GigaOM Show, Tekzilla Daily (Maybe weekly) and the Totally Rad Show are great candidates for MP3 versions being published (though things like GigaOM's GigaBytes would be pretty hard to read ;) ), but I find it hard to listen to an episode of Systm, where a lot of the stuff is very visual would not be a candidate for an MP3... I'm going to shut up now.

I agree with everything KichigaiMentat said. A move to open standards leaves only a limited few without support (dare I say, 1%?). Ok, so maybe getting rid of WMV might leave a handful of "Plays For Sure" PMPs in the dark. That would be an acceptable loss in my IMHO. I'm running a VISTA PC, an iPhone, an iPod, an XBOX 360, and a 5 year old XP PC, none of which would cease to work with the "totally imaginary example" bmwt suggests.

Performance may be another issue altogether. XVID and DIVX are fantastic, low resource codecs...as long as they work. Rev3 would need to continue to accept that risk. Personally, I often get audio sync issues with them, so I only use them when another option isn't readily available.

[ghostwolf]

I would like to see Ogg/Theora/Vorbis version just for "religious" reasons. On the other had it is still in beta and apparently a new encoder/decoder is coming up for Theora.
Also I think that if you can get the h.264/ASP large to work on the PSP you would get a larger audience since the install base of PSP is quite larger than, say, the iPhone/iPod touch.
Ps. nr. 1: the PSP has a RSS reader since 2.60 and video since 3.30
Ps. nr. 2: But the browser on the psp can't surf to the RSS:s on the site.

edit: PSP video was since 3.30 not 3.50, my bad.

[kichigaimentat]

Performance may be another issue altogether. XVID and DIVX are fantastic, low resource codecs...as long as they work. Rev3 would need to continue to accept that risk. Personally, I often get audio sync issues with them, so I only use them when another option isn't readily available.

That's what the MPEG-4 ASP is. XviD is Advanced Simple Profile, just by another name and with a bigger focus on AVI. That's what the command line I had above is all about. Most things can play MP4-ASP, but if it absolutely has to be in an AVI, then you can easily repackage it.

[kichigaimentat]

Also I think that if you can get the h.264/ASP large to work on the PSP you would get a larger audience since the install base of PSP is quite larger than, say, the iPhone/iPod touch.
Ps. nr. 1: the PSP has a RSS reader since 2.60 and video since 3.30
Ps. nr. 2: But the browser on the psp can't surf to the RSS:s on the site.

edit: PSP video was since 3.30 not 3.50, my bad.

H.264 works on the PSP with no problem. I've got my PSP downloading feeds from them daily. I just don't like that it's 320x160, which means when the PSP scales it up it looks like crap. Probably the same story on the iPhone/iPod Touch, which is why I said everything should get bumped up to 480x272.

I also agree, though, about the need to make an easier-to-subscribe-to subscription page for the PSP. The only reason I don't have my PSP pulling down popSiren and the new scamming show is because I have to go into those pages, pull the link to the RSS feed, create an HTML document, then navigate my PSP over to it. If Rev3 could just make a single HTML document at, say, revision3.com/psp.html (or something) where all it has is links to all their "Small QuickTime" RSS feeds.

[kichigaimentat]

Well, my iPod does the same thing (though my PSP does not, to an extent), what I'm wondering is that data that your Zune has in its internal database (which is getting its metadata from the RSS feed, like iTunes does) or is it actually embedded in the data (If I download that exact file from the Rev3 website, without using the RSS feed, and then put that on my device, would I see that data too?). Since the XBox 360 doesn't do RSS or metadata or read Miro's data, I'd like to see that information stored in the actual MP4 container (much like what TED does).

[kichigaimentat]

I should've said, you can't run any app this isn't already installed.
I've tried everything I can do.

Can you open up HTML files from your Flash drive? Perhaps some kind of Java/AJAX/Flash-powered RSS Podcatcher that you would download as a ZIP, decompress to the root of the folder you want to download your files to, load up RSS Feeds, then let it handle things from there. Rev3 could make one along side the Rev3 MP4-ASP-to-AVI-XviD Converter ;)

[far-beyond-driven]

Can you open up HTML files from your Flash drive? Perhaps some kind of Java/AJAX/Flash-powered RSS Podcatcher that you would download as a ZIP, decompress to the root of the folder you want to download your files to, load up RSS Feeds, then let it handle things from there. Rev3 could make one along side the Rev3 MP4-ASP-to-AVI-XviD Converter ;)
Yes, I can open .html files from the flash drive.

This is exactly what I was thinking because I've used an XviD bitrate calculator on the flash drive and this was a .html but also an app.

Does anybody know if there's a html app out there that would let me grab files with it or does anybody know how to build such a thing?

Thanks.

[far-beyond-driven]

Can I use any of this code to force a popup box to an external link?
http://classicasp.aspfaq.com/general/how-do-i-prompt-a-save-as-dialog-for-an-accepted-mime-type.html

[pdg1]

I use XBMC to play the stuff I download
This is a link to the video formats it supports

http://xbmc.org/wiki/?title=XBMC_Features_and_Supported_Formats/Codecs#Xbox_supported_video_formats_and_resolution s

what does this mean for me if they go strictly to MP4 and WMV9?

[braves4life]

Just give me the best quality you can that will play on the Apple TV...

[kichigaimentat]

Which would be the existing "QuickTime" High Definition streams, which are proposed to remain the same, except drop the MOV extension for MP4, which only really effects PS3 users (in a good way).

[kichigaimentat]

It means nothing. I believe XBMC supports some level of WMV (might not be WMV9), but it does support MP4 with Advanced Simple Profile (similar to XviD) and H.264 (though not all features and only up to certain resolutions). The proposed changes won't really effect you, you just can't watch anything in High Def (limitation of XBox hardware, not XBMC or Revision3).

[kichigaimentat]

That would work, except I believe it's expecting a server to handle scripting. So far, I've found this page (http://www.podcastingnews.com/topics/Podcast_Software.html) which lists a ton of podcasting clients. Interestingly enough, there is a Java version which may work for you, but it requires the use of an installer initially. After that, I haven't a clue how it works. If it drops a bunch of JARs on the drive, you may just be in luck. This page (http://lwn.net/Articles/142754/), however, lists a flash-based Podcatcer (http://www.jamier.net/flashpodder) (the author re-organized his site since that original article was written, my link points to the correct page to find the app) that might just suit your purposes. Otherwise, unless someone works some impressive Goolgle voodoo, I think these might be your only options (aside from asking the librarians to enable right clicking on one computer, which would make it possible to finish The Impossible Quiz (http://www.addictinggames.com/theimpossiblequiz.html)).

On a meta-note, this thread appears on the second page of Google if you Google for "java podcatcher" (http://www.google.com/search?q=java+podcatcher). Here's hoping this serves future generations.

[ph03n1x]

I, for one, would be happy to see HD 720p 4+ mbit files. I'd even be willing to pay for that format. 99 cents an episode? I'd do that for sure for Diggnation, Systm, Tekzilla & Totally Rad Show. Maybe a monthly pass to a group of 3 or 4 shows for $12 in that super high bit rate? This might not be the most popular opinion but hey, bandwidth is expensive and all that.

[newuser]

I'm all for advancing of tech stuff. But that said, I use set top boxes (philip divx DVD players) to view your show and this would leave me out in the cold.

I would have to re-encode or just watch it on a computer which sucks big time.

Just my 2 cents.

PS. It's a shame that some of the show is not offered in xvid/divx formats which I find very inconvenient.

May be I''m in minority.

Regards.
Victor
:mad:

[newuser]

I understand that lots of people currently use our xvid.avi. In many cases, it's because one of the other formats wont work on a device/player, and the xvid.avi is the only option. This problem can be adressed in many cases by the mp4 formats. In many other cases, its because that was the format people started with, and there was no need to change. Were xvid to go away tomorrow, what player/device would you have a problem with?My 2 philip set-top players which I use to watch these shows.

Exception: crankygeeks, which I have to re-encode. Pain!:eek:

[far-beyond-driven]

That would work, except I believe it's expecting a server to handle scripting. So far, I've found this page (http://www.podcastingnews.com/topics/Podcast_Software.html) which lists a ton of podcasting clients. Interestingly enough, there is a Java version which may work for you, but it requires the use of an installer initially. After that, I haven't a clue how it works. If it drops a bunch of JARs on the drive, you may just be in luck. This page (http://lwn.net/Articles/142754/), however, lists a flash-based Podcatcer (http://www.jamier.net/flashpodder) (the author re-organized his site since that original article was written, my link points to the correct page to find the app) that might just suit your purposes. Otherwise, unless someone works some impressive Goolgle voodoo, I think these might be your only options (aside from asking the librarians to enable right clicking on one computer, which would make it possible to finish The Impossible Quiz (http://www.addictinggames.com/theimpossiblequiz.html)).

On a meta-note, this thread appears on the second page of Google if you Google for "java podcatcher" (http://www.google.com/search?q=java+podcatcher). Here's hoping this serves future generations.
Thanks for your help with this, but still none of these can enable downloading for me. I think I need something to change the policies of IE - a custom reg file that can be copied via a batch file.. Least I think that's what I need. Been reading up.

[evilguy]

My 2 cents:

Drop the WMV format. Nobody really has a need for this format and WMV is not a must have format when H.264 is available.

Continue the large XVID format, so people with "old" players can get their stuff from REV3.

And for the love of god change the container from MOV to MP4, so people can enjoy the shows on both my Windows, Mac, Linux, PS3, XBOX360, PSP, Ipod and MobilePhones. But please make sure that the shows are playable on the PS3 since the H.264 decoder is not the best around. And how about a 650-800 Kbit H.264 flashplayer version on the website?

I think the download options should be:

HD H.264 2,5 Mbit (Preferably 2 pass VBR with all the bells and whistles VLC can handle)
HD H.264 2 Mbit PS3/Quicktime compatible version
Large H.264 (800 Kbit)
Small H.264 (350 kbit)
Large Xvid (1 Mbit 640x480)
MP3 (160 Kbit)

BTW: The last HD episode of Tekzilla in HD H.264 actually looked very good. Very little pixel blocking even on black surfaces - Nice work tech crew!

[kichigaimentat]

I would have to re-encode or just watch it on a computer which sucks big time.
No, you don't. I already explained this: MPEG-4 using ASP is essentially Xvid in a different box. VLC and MPlayer will kick this out to a compatible AVI.
mplayer {infile} -ovc copy -oac copy -o {outfile}
Takes less than three minutes, depending on hard disk speed. To maintain your segment of the market, earlier in this thread I suggested basically having Rev3 make a GUI tool using MPlayer to drop out the ASP to an AVI as a convenience for everyone who needs an AVI.

Or you could buy an old XBox, hack it, and install XBMC ;) (seriously, you've got no idea how awesome it is)

[vrillusions]

guess I'll just chime in that as a PS3 owner going .mp4 across the board would be great. Currently I just get the large version through tversity and stream that to my tv, but being able to send the HD one there would be great.

[hellfighter]

I've always wanted to watch the HD version of shows on my PS3. If my PS3 can do it, then give me the video and stop giving me pooh quality on purpose. Sheesh.

[hellfighter]

How can I play the HD videos on my PS3?

[spiri]

How can I play the HD videos on my PS3?

As previously mentioned in this thread you can convert the mov to mp4 using MPEG Streamclip. Just open the mov file and choose save as, then select mp4 as the file type.

[hellfighter]

As previously mentioned in this thread you can convert the mov to mp4 using MPEG Streamclip. Just open the mov file and choose save as, then select mp4 as the file type.

Thankee. I figured it was in there, but didn't want to comb through everything. Muaha. :D

[spiri]

Thankee. I figured it was in there, but didn't want to comb through everything. Muaha. :D

Haha, I completely understand you :)

It's probably a good thing to get it up to the surface again :)

Oh, and BTW a link for MPEG Streamclip: www.squared5.com

[hellfighter]

Awesome, I tried it and it works. Quick and easy. The quality is a step up. I wish the HD version was really the high-end option for watching and they'd let the files be huge to make the video actually look good enough to be on my 37" LCD. Let all the other options be for people willing to compromise and watch on their computers.

[rucknrun]

Who wants to waste thier time converting it themselves? Just post the mp4 version!! I want to watch the HD on my ps3 usint tversity!!

[dolson]

1) no more quicktime containers. Going to mp4 would allow more devices (360, ps3) to playback, without reconverting.

I realize this thread is a bit old, but I don't wander much outside of the TRS forum, and somebody linked this..

I am in favor of watching Rev3 content on my PS3 in 720p, so whatever you need to do to make that happen, please, do so! I also use my PSP occasionally, and the current Quicktime Small feed works a treat with it.

Also, I run Linux, so Windows apps that convert just won't do the trick for me. And my downloads are onto a headless server, automatically, via RSS feeds, so I just stream from that to my PS3.. If I have to go use a PC to convert, then it's pointless - I may as well just watch on my tiny PC monitor rather than my LCD TV..

[gatepc]

That looks good but I would rather you offer a super high quility version something like .mp4 video at 1920x1080 ( 1080p) 5mb/s video and 320kbp/s aac audio that would be really nice

[mavrevmatt]

I know this is an old thread but I'd like as many shows as possible to have mp3's available. I don't always have time to watch shows like Internet Superstar, and it's almost as effective via audio as it is video for much of the show. Diggnation still has an mp3 feed and it works fine even with the video elements now so why not?

[gimpbully]

This is done on a per-show basis. If I recall last time this came up, it's as requested by the producer. There's one other show that runs through the mp3 module in the workflow but I can't recall off the top of my head... trs?..
I know this is an old thread but I'd like as many shows as possible to have mp3's available. I don't always have time to watch shows like Internet Superstar, and it's almost as effective via audio as it is video for much of the show. Diggnation still has an mp3 feed and it works fine even with the video elements now so why not?

[mavrevmatt]

Ah, okay. That sucks then because I doubt that they'll want to put out mp3's when they spend tons of time on the visual stuff. Oh well. Thanks for your reply.

This is done on a per-show basis. If I recall last time this came up, it's as requested by the producer. There's one other show that runs through the mp3 module in the workflow but I can't recall off the top of my head... trs?..

[firestonex]

I used to watch a lot of the shows through my Nintendo Wii Browser and it worked just fine. Later I just decided to hook up my pc to my tv because that seemed more convienient. But just the other day I tried to watch diggnation from my Wii and it wouldn't work. I know you guys have played with the player in the past months and I don't thing it works with the Wii any more. So please take a look at that. Thank You.

I prob. won't be on here to read an update for awail, but I'd appricate you guys looking into it.

Dustin Forrester,
Firestonex

[cheech151337]

The bigger the better, I have a 92" 1080p projection screen to fill. I say max out the specs and offer it via bittorent only.

[bmwt]

things may improve this weekend :)

[darknessgp]

things may improve this weekend :)

You are such a tease. I look forward to it, if it does this weekend.

[tokenuser]

things may improve this weekend :)Waiting with baited breath for the "my <insert format of choice> doesn't work" threads over the weekend :)

[slonkak]

If we do end up getting the full quality multi-GB file, that settles it, I'll have to make an HTPC to use as a Blu-Ray/podcast player so I can get the full res. I can't wait!!!!

[bmwt]

yay full mp4 support!

http://revision3.com/blog/2008/07/26/revision3-hd-feeds-moving-to-mp4/

our "large" and "small" quicktimes are also now mp4. (yes, using the quicktime name is now no longer exactly correct, but we need to transition so rss feeds dont break)

[kd7swh]

Any more mobile formats in the works?

hq.qvga.stereo.3gp (320x240, 128k \ 32k AAC)

would be my mobile format of choice. the lq.qcif.mono.3gp at m.revision3.com only covers half of my blackberry's screen.

[jradebaugh]

I'm actually kind of pissed now because there isn't an HD format of any of the shows that will play in the Zune software. Sure I can open them up in QT but why get rid of the .mov and the ability to play HD formats in Zune software without having a back up? In my mind I see that as blocking one avenue to support another (Apple). C'mon Rev3-show some love for the Zune.

UPDATE: So I found the error code which is C00D1199 which means it's an unsupported file. However .mp4 is listed as a supported file. It goes on to state that it might have something to do with an incompatible audio codec?

[comhcinc]

why would you want hd for the zune or even ipod?

[jradebaugh]

I play the files through Zune on my PC then out to an HD monitor-That's why.

The Zune software supports .mp4 but for some reason the HD versions that Rev3 is putting out bring up that error code and no longer show up in the Zune library.

[comhcinc]

................why not just play them on your pc?

[jradebaugh]

Is there anyone else that gets what I'm saying? I can't play it on my PC period without using QT which I DO NOT want to do. I WANT to play the HD versions in Zune software but it doesn't support the codec that Rev3 used to create the videos. I don't get why they had to change formats from .mov to .mp4. .mov worked fine on 360 and PS3 off of a thumbdrive.

[comhcinc]

why not just use vlc (http://www.videolan.org/vlc/)? i do it, works fine for me.

[jradebaugh]

Ok WOW! You really aren't getting it. I know I can play the files in a ton of other software programs but once again I want to play it in Zune. The .h264.mov files worked wonderfully but the .mp4 files won't for some reason. I tried the Project Lore .mp4 file and it worked fine.
And just to be clear: I'm using the Zune software, not ANY THING ELSE.

[comhcinc]

okay i get it now. you are just a whinny bisnatch who is upset because you can't have it exactly how you want it.

well grow up and get over it. like four people on the planet use the zune, even the zune guy (http://www.engadget.com/2008/07/26/zune-guy-calls-microsoft-liars-says-zune-situation-is-f-in/) isn't using it anymore.

you can't please everyone and there is no sense in just trying to please you and those 3 other zune people ( i bet the three other people don't even have this problem)

[jradebaugh]

Wow, that was real mature of you.
The problem I have is that Zune used to be supported and now it's not. If that's the direction Rev3 chooses to go and not support the Zune software with their HD format, so be it-I'll have to watch it in another player.
But now you just made yourself look like an idiot.

[comhcinc]

so am i immature or an idiot?

YOU were the one that refused to use something other than the zune software:

Ok WOW! You really aren't getting it. I know I can play the files in a ton of other software programs but once again I want to play it in Zune. And just to be clear: I'm using the Zune software, not ANY THING ELSE.

so sure i might be an immature idiot. that doesn't change the fact that you are a whinny bisnatch.

[gimpbully]

Is there anyone else that gets what I'm saying? I can't play it on my PC period without using QT which I DO NOT want to do. I WANT to play the HD versions in Zune software but it doesn't support the codec that Rev3 used to create the videos. I don't get why they had to change formats from .mov to .mp4. .mov worked fine on 360 and PS3 off of a thumbdrive.

the .mp4 extension supports more devices than the .mov container. There exists, in windows, a perfectly functional method for playing these files. This is a problem with WMP11 and is the sole fault of microsoft for not supporting an ISO standard. I can respect that you don't like using quicktime, for whatever reason, but this is the HD format we have chosen that supports the widest range of devices and OSs including windows and all the consoles that support HD playback. There are plenty of other players available for windows that will play these files back. There are builds of both mplayer and vlc that will support these files.

[jradebaugh]

I typed in that fashion so you could read it easier. See, I was helping you out.
Anyway, i fixed the problem with some "stuff" and everything is fine.
Thanks for the help though man.

UPDATE: Thanks Gimp for explaining it to me. Will there be other versions of HD shows available?

[gimpbully]

Not likely any time soon. The amount of processing time required on our cluster for an extra format really outweighs the bennefit of having multiple HD versions. We are actively working at improving the compatibility with as much software as we can (as evidenced by this format change). I really just wish microsoft would get *their* act together on this. People slam qt all the time but at least it plays standards.

edit: looking even further into this, it looks like microsoft simply doesn't support h264 at the "high profile" of h264 with the zune software (only the baseline and main profile h264):
AVC/H264 Video - Visual Size 1280 x 720 - Profile High @ Level 3.1
AVC/H264 Video - Visual Size 640 x 360 - Profile Baseline @ Level 3

The xbox itself should support the file just fine, however. Just shove it on a thumbdrive and into the 360.

I typed in that fashion so you could read it easier. See, I was helping you out.
Anyway, i fixed the problem with some "stuff" and everything is fine.
Thanks for the help though man.

UPDATE: Thanks Gimp for explaining it to me. Will there be other versions of HD shows available?

[jradebaugh]

Yeah, that's what I've been doing when I don't watch on my PC and it works great! Next stop, Rev3 shows available on Xbox Live;)

[scott88008]

I may be shallow but what drew me to Revision3 was the HD format (of course the reason I coninue to watch are the awesome hosts and content). I watch on my laptop so the codec doesn't really matter other than I want the highest resolution possible. My question is why aren't all the shows available in HD, Epic Fu in particular?

[gimpbully]

So this is an intricacy of the shows that are produced off-site. It's up to the show's producer to make that call.
I may be shallow but what drew me to Revision3 was the HD format (of course the reason I coninue to watch are the awesome hosts and content). I watch on my laptop so the codec doesn't really matter other than I want the highest resolution possible. My question is why aren't all the shows available in HD, Epic Fu in particular?

[scott88008]

Thanks, I really appreciate the explanation so I'm no longer in mystery.

[beaster1174]

I'm actually kind of pissed now because there isn't an HD format of any of the shows that will play in the Zune software. Sure I can open them up in QT but why get rid of the .mov and the ability to play HD formats in Zune software without having a back up? In my mind I see that as blocking one avenue to support another (Apple). C'mon Rev3-show some love for the Zune.

UPDATE: So I found the error code which is C00D1199 which means it's an unsupported file. However .mp4 is listed as a supported file. It goes on to state that it might have something to do with an incompatible audio codec?
I too can no longer play the HD file in the Zune software and get the same error.
Is there any solution for this?

[ajzzz]

I download xvid large, my dvd player plays it but mostly I just prefer the quality, size, and resource impact of it.

[llauranzoniii]

I use Miro to download and I download the Large WMV since I stream through Windows Media Center to the 360.

All of these options sound good though.

[hollywoodbound]

Hey folks,

as always, we're trying to make your revision3 viewing experience as simple and compatible as possible, to give you the choices in *how* to watch your media. Formats come and go, standards make things easier and harder, and we're forced to constantly evaluate what we offer. With that in mind, I'd like to get your feedback on some possible format changes here. Note that this is totally unofficial, and just so that we can get an idea of things to look out for.

As a totally imaginary example, what if the formats we offered were:

hd.h264.mp4 (720p, 2 megabit)
large.h264.mp4 (640x360, 1 megabit)
small.h264.mp4 (320x180, 500k)

hd.wmv9.wmv (720p, 2 megabit)
large.wmv9.wmv (640x360, 1 megabit)
small.wmv9.wmv (320x180, 500k)

large.asp.mp4 (640x360, 1 megabit)
small.asp.mp4 (320x180, 500k)

what this would mean:

1) no more quicktime containers. Going to mp4 would allow more devices (360, ps3) to playback, without reconverting.

2) no more avi. most devices that used to use xvid.avi could use the asp.mp4 (same codec video codec, different container. would be compatible with more small devices)

3) wmv-hd. it seems like wmv hd is mostly still using the wmv9 codec. and using vc-1 wouldn't help enough ppl

While i cant promise anything, i'm especially interested in ppl who's days would be completely ruined by this, and wouldn't be able to find a compatible format to use.

I dont care if you do that! At least id be able to download HD without having to get a serial for quicktime pro :-)

[hollywoodbound]

I too can no longer play the HD file in the Zune software and get the same error.
Is there any solution for this?

ugh you have a zune? I had to get rid of mine you are strong...

[toadx]

I'm still looking for the WMV HD files! This thread is getting old!

[thomson2008]

Most of the shows are produced and owned by Revision3 however there are a couple of shows which are produced independently. Revision3 only handles the distribution and marketing aspects of these shows but doesn't produce the content. These shows are marked with a footnote in the tables below.
======================
Thomson
Job Opportunities (http://jobs.gov-auctions.org)