Islam

[techliveadmin]

In the name of God, Most gracious, Most Merciful I begin:

My dear Rev3 friends, I have noticed in most of my threads or otherwise, many have had comments on Islam.

So I am putting it forward today. I ask ALL of you to come forward with your question, comments on this religion please. I will state that the purpose of this thread is not to convert anyone or to preach, however to inform those who need be. I will accept ALL comments and questions and answer/reply to them as quickly as possible. No question you pose cannot be answered. I will not be angry at your comments.

I will accept ALL comments with NO intent to retaliate given the situation!

I kindly ask the moderators to allow whatever statements the posters, well post. As a muslim I am asking you to allow ANY comments/questions posed.

I will definitely try to answer your question to my best abilities. Thank You ALL!



For a digital copy of the HOLY Quran please check here (english) :

http://beautifulislam.net/phcdl/file.php?id=61

[tokenuser]

Why is it OK to name a child after the prophet Mohammed, but not name a toy bear after a child named after the prophet Mohammed?

[Link (http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1687755,00.html)]

[nextgenxbox]

What's the big deal with the cartoon too. All religions are caricatured but why does Islam get so crazy about it. -- Does Islam not have a sense of humor?

[rabidbadger]

odd you started this, cause I wanted to ask you something the other day, but wasn't gonna start a new thread on it.

what's with the 72 virgin thing as a reward for martyrs? I'm guessing us westerners are just misinterpreting that... what's the scoop?

[tokenuser]

what's with the 72 virgin thing as a reward for martyrs? I'm guessing us westerners are just misinterpreting that... what's the scoop?... and, as each virgin is defiled in a relationship that is presumably outside of marriage, does that then mean that they are doomed to a life in hell?

Also, does it specifiy that they are women or is that just assumed? Because with all those martyred male suicide bombers, I am guessing that there are WAY more than 72 virgins already up there and waiting.

[rabidbadger]

... and, as each virgin is defiled in a relationship that is presumably outside of marriage, does that then mean that they are doomed to a life in hell?
.

I know you are joking but that is honestly what I was curious about. does islam allow polygamy? And if so, what happens after they are de-virginized, they just become part of a harem? Or are they discarded after they are no longer virgins?

I mean, Muslims don't do pre-marital sex, so they would have to marry all 72 in order to "enjoy" taking the virginity of each. (It IS supposed to be a "reward" after all... and once you marry, and then de-virginize them 72 of them, then ughhh. you are stuck with 72 wives.!!!
that sounds like fun... One wife is awesome. two might be fun, but once you get to 3 plus, it all becomes scheduling and accounting...

[techliveadmin]

In the Name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful :

Naming a child after the Holy Prophet Muhammad (SAW) and naming a doll over it is two different things.

First of all the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) was sent as an example to the world. So naming your child similiar to the Prophet's name, you would like him to be of the same caliber, respect. You are not calling your child The Prophet, but you would like your child to be like the Prophet (SAW).

Naming a teddy bear Muhammad, well for that issue I say this.

The Prophet (SAW) prohibited anyone from creating/saving anything of his likeness to prevent further generations of Muslims to develop him into a thing of which to worship.

Naming a teddy bear after him does not mean people are going to worship it, but it is best to obey the Prophet (SAW) and not project anything within his likeness.

So there is nothing wrong with naming your child after the Prophet (SAW), he was a great man. However naming a teddy bear after him is along the lines of projecting his likeness.

[nextgenxbox]

Why do you start your replies with:

"In the Name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful:"

Is that something you have to say before you speak of Islam?

[ariastar]

I know you are joking but that is honestly what I was curious about. does islam allow polygamy? And if so, what happens after they are de-virginized, they just become part of a harem? Or are they discarded after they are no longer virgins?

I mean, Muslims don't do pre-marital sex, so they would have to marry all 72 in order to "enjoy" taking the virginity of each. (It IS supposed to be a "reward" after all... and once you marry, and then de-virginize them 72 of them, then ughhh. you are stuck with 72 wives.!!!
that sounds like fun... One wife is awesome. two might be fun, but once you get to 3 plus, it all becomes scheduling and accounting...

I read about this a week or so ago. They can marry four women at a time. Divorce one, marry another, and the divorced one is still basically owned by the man. Just marry and divorce as you see fit. Wanna sleep with #64 tonight? Divorce a wife, marry her, sleep with her, divorce when done. Divorcing is verbal.

[ariastar]

In the Name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful :

Naming a child after the Holy Prophet Muhammad (SAW) and naming a doll over it is two different things.

First of all the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) was sent as an example to the world. So naming your child similiar to the Prophet's name, you would like him to be of the same caliber, respect. You are not calling your child The Prophet, but you would like your child to be like the Prophet (SAW).

Naming a teddy bear Muhammad, well for that issue I say this.

The Prophet (SAW) prohibited anyone from creating/saving anything of his likeness to prevent further generations of Muslims to develop him into a thing of which to worship.

Naming a teddy bear after him does not mean people are going to worship it, but it is best to obey the Prophet (SAW) and not project anything within his likeness.

So there is nothing wrong with naming your child after the Prophet (SAW), he was a great man. However naming a teddy bear after him is along the lines of projecting his likeness.

You can say that a male child named after him is creating something in his likeness far more than a teddy bear. Naming a child after his is projecting his likeness very much. When I was a Christian, I saw naming a human child after Jesus or God as wrong. Why is it okay to name ANYONE after Muhammad okay? Why not just say NO ONE should name anything or anyone with that name?

[rabidbadger]

wow, aria. Link? and techlive, is that true? divorce being verbal. "fucked you, go away" sounds like every meat market bar I went to in my 20s...

[ariastar]

Why do you see that raped woman in jail as being okay? The story where the man got off. Let's presume all facts of that article are correct.

Why is it okay for the woman to be punished for something she was forced into and fine that the man is free? You said he will get what's coming to him in the afterlife, but why should that woman have to pay anything? This shrieks of a cultural/religious lack of respect for women.

[techliveadmin]

In the Name of God Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

You have brought up two issues here.
1) 72 virigns and heaven.
2) Marriage.

For number 1) I say this :

I cannot comment on the number. But I know it is more than 12. 72 is a maybe. The thing with this is that, no one really cares for 72 virgins when they die and go to heaven. That is just up-played by the media. We don't really have any interest in sleeping with 72 girls, we can't do that with all of them at the same time. It's one at a time. The real aim of Matyrdom is knowing you will be accepted into heaven ASAP.

2)
Well as for marriage. Most Muslims can have up to 4. Each wife must have her own house. That is whatever the other wives have, all must have. If the husband gives one wife $2000. he must give all $2000 as it is fair. In Islam, if the woman chooses to work, the money she earns if for her self and her alone. The husbands money, he gives it to the wife, she sees about the bills and keeps the rest for herself and her children. The Husband keeps a very little amount for himself as the wife oversees financial matters.

He can't have sex as in a threesome with all of them at the same time. It's sex with one. Then when hes finished with another and so on. It doesn't have to be right after the other. Now if he does have sex with one, it must be away from the presence of the others as to prevent disorder.

They could all live in the same house if they wanted together. However there must be a room and bathroom for each.

[ariastar]

For some reason, I don't think the scripture says anything about each wife MUST have a car. I can see each wife receiving equally, but each wife must have a CAR? Did Allah foresee automobiles? Considering in most places in the Middle East women aren't allowed to drive?

[rabidbadger]

crazy, tech. got links?

[ariastar]

Even if the number is "just 12" virgins, how is 12 better than love-making with one woman you love dearly instead of a dozen (or more) random women?

How in hell is suicide bombing seen as being a martyr rather than murder?

[techliveadmin]

In the Name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

Ok. Marriage and Verbal Divorce.

A Muslim man cannot divorce a woman and still own her. We do not own women! Women are independant, we cannot force them to do anything! You cannot divorce your wife to sleep with another. That is stupid and UNislamic.

When it comes to a divorce. The man and woman must be in the presence of an Imam or a Muslim Leader. Preferably a divorce counsel. The man will tell the woman three times, at three different occasions he would like a divorce. So she has been told thrice that the husband seeks a divorce. Now after that. The man can remarry after the third time he tells the wife he wants a divorce. Of course divorce being a last ditch occurrance (the divorce).

The woman has to wait 3 months before she can remarry. Why? Unfair? NO. It is to ensure she is not pregnant. If she is then financial and other obligations will be figured out. After that she is free to remarry.


REPLYING TO ARIA:

No it is not wrong to name a child Muhammad. You are naming the child after the example for Islam. Who wouldn't want there child to perfect their Islam. To obey and enjoy their religion. Nothings wrong with it. Naming a child Muhammad is not calling the child the HOLY PROPHET (PBUH)! He was the last prophet!

So naming your child after a great man does not mean he is the Prophet! God Forbid the innocent minds who believe that.

[njshadow]

I really don't have any questions, I'm of the debating type. Being a born-again Christian I would rather get into a debate. However, I won't, respecting TechLiveAdmin's original post.

[techliveadmin]

In the Name of God Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

These questions are coming in, faster than I can type!

Ok Aria understand this. The man gets a reward for his Matyrdom. He does not have to accept it. He still has free will. So he could absolutely choose not to sleep with any of them. Islam is not ALL about sexual fantasies, its not about that one bit!

Suicide? Ok well this is a touchy subject. It is wrong. Islam says so. So why do people do it? It is ACCEPTABLE as a last ditch effort. If the enemy has tanks and guns and all you have is sticks and stones, by all means go ahead. It is the same as one man riding into an army of enemies. Same sort of take on it.

He dies because he has sacrificed himself for his Muslim brothers and sisters and for his Religion.

[techliveadmin]

In the Name of God, Most Gracious Most Merciful.

What I meant with the car post was to say each wife receives equally. So the car thing is just an example. No more than that. No it is not stated to give a 'car'.

[techliveadmin]

NJ Shadow. It is ok say what you must.

[ariastar]

In the Name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

Ok. Marriage and Verbal Divorce.

A Muslim man cannot divorce a woman and still own her. We do not own women! Women are independant, we cannot force them to do anything! You cannot divorce your wife to sleep with another. That is stupid and UNislamic.

When it comes to a divorce. The man and woman must be in the presence of an Imam or a Muslim Leader. Preferably a divorce counsel. The man will tell the woman three times, at three different occasions he would like a divorce. So she has been told thrice that the husband seeks a divorce. Now after that. The man can remarry after the third time he tells the wife he wants a divorce. Of course divorce being a last ditch occurrance (the divorce).

The woman has to wait 3 months before she can remarry. Why? Unfair? NO. It is to ensure she is not pregnant. If she is then financial and other obligations will be figured out. After that she is free to remarry.


REPLYING TO ARIA:

No it is not wrong to name a child Muhammad. You are naming the child after the example for Islam. Who wouldn't want there child to perfect their Islam. To obey and enjoy their religion. Nothings wrong with it. Naming a child Muhammad is not calling the child the HOLY PROPHET (PBUH)! He was the last prophet!

So naming your child after a great man does not mean he is the Prophet! God Forbid the innocent minds who believe that.

The man should have to wait three months too. If she has to wait three months in case she's pregnant, shouldn't he have to wait in case she is to support her and the baby, or is she shit out of luck? If women are independent, why can't they initiate the divorce? In a religion where virginity is valued to the point of people blowing up innocent people, who would want a woman previously married, and so spoiled?

In Christianity, no one can be as perfect as Jesus, and it's an insult to insist otherwise. How can you see naming a child after Muhammad as fine? Do you believe it's possible to be as perfect as Muhammad? In Christianity, Moses asked the Burning Bush on Mt. Sanai what to call it. "I am that I am." Meaning it's not the name applied that is important, but WHO he is. Why is it okay to name someone after Muhammad, but not a bear, when it's just a word? Does this not cast importance in his NAME rather than WHO he is?

Why get into a fit over comics in a newspaper, or any depiction, but not the name?

I still want you to answer about that rape victim.

[ariastar]

Suicide? Ok well this is a touchy subject. It is wrong. Islam says so. So why do people do it? It is ACCEPTABLE as a last ditch effort. If the enemy has tanks and guns and all you have is sticks and stones, by all means go ahead. It is the same as one man riding into an army of enemies. Same sort of take on it.

He dies because he has sacrificed himself for his Muslim brothers and sisters and for his Religion.

Is it "sacrifice" to strap a bomb to yourself and walk into the middle of a market full of children and their parents and then detonate that bomb?

Why do so many families of Islam find pride in their sons being pulled off the streets to be suicide bombers when the victims are just as likely to be other children? It's a sad day when your child dies buying an apple, but a glorious day if your son was the one to kill that child. Explain how this is noble.

I understand if people are invading your land calling for regime change and trying to subdue you and beat you into submission, and I agree that America should get the fuck out. I support our troops ordered to go and hate our president for not caring about anyone, American troops nor Iraqi civilians, in his quest for greater power and fear.

But most suicide bombing is against your own people.

[techliveadmin]

The man should have to wait three months too. If she has to wait three months in case she's pregnant, shouldn't he have to wait in case she is to support her and the baby, or is she shit out of luck? If women are independent, why can't they initiate the divorce? In a religion where virginity is valued to the point of people blowing up innocent people, who would want a woman previously married, and so spoiled?

In Christianity, no one can be as perfect as Jesus, and it's an insult to insist otherwise. How can you see naming a child after Muhammad as fine? Do you believe it's possible to be as perfect as Muhammad? In Christianity, Moses asked the Burning Bush on Mt. Sanai what to call it. "I am that I am." Meaning it's not the name applied that is important, but WHO he is. Why is it okay to name someone after Muhammad, but not a bear, when it's just a word? Does this not cast importance in his NAME rather than WHO he is?

Why get into a fit over comics in a newspaper, or any depiction, but not the name?

I still want you to answer about that rape victim.

In the Name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful :

Ok in ISLAM. The divorce is the last possible resort here. All other ways of counselling and so forth are taken before divorce is even considered. Yes a woman can initiate a divorce. I never said she could not.

Like I said before, the man does not HAVE to remarry right after a divorce. The woman has to wait for 3 months, to see if she is pregnant. The man has to continue support of the woman. Who says she is spoiled? In Islam, many a man, including me would jump at the chance of marrying a muslim woman with or without a child. A woman is a woman. No matter what. She is still human. Islam respects that. A life is a life, so NO abortion.

The Holy Prophet (SAW) was sent as an example to the earth. Not sent to be worshipped. Naming someone after him, means you want to be like him. All muslims strive to be like the Prophet (SAW) as he was the example. We do not strive to BE the Prophet. He was the last Prophet in accordance with ISLAM.

Naming something after the Prophet (SAW) is trying to create an image of him. As in cartoons which he barred us from doing. It is as though, the Holy Quran is an instructional booklet and the Prophet (SAW) is the illustration for the booklet. There is only one GOD and he is not God, he is the final Messenger sent to the world.

So he has asked not to be put in the form of any image. So he would not be worshipped as the Christians worshipped Isa (Jesus) (AS). We believe Isa (Jesus) (AS) was a prophet of God as well.

[techliveadmin]

In the Name Of God, Mosy Gracious, Most Merciful.

It is agreed by many Muslims that the suicide bombings in IRAQ is wrong and not does not fit the specifications as stated in my above response.

[rabidbadger]

In the Name of God Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

These questions are coming in, faster than I can type!

You asked for it. haha. but glad you did... we need educating...



He dies because he has sacrificed himself for his Muslim brothers and sisters and for his Religion.

like this guy, cept for culture and politics instead, both equally legit, when it comes to freedom.

http://www.accountabilityutah.org/IssuesAlerts/LegAlerts/2006/tiananmen-square-tanks.jpg

[techliveadmin]

In the Name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful:

Yes Just like that. For freedom as well!

[ariastar]

Ok in ISLAM. The divorce is the last possible resort here. All other ways of counselling and so forth are taken before divorce is even considered. Yes a woman can initiate a divorce. I never said she could not.

Like I said before, the man does not HAVE to remarry right after a divorce. The woman has to wait for 3 months, to see if she is pregnant. The man has to continue support of the woman. Who says she is spoiled? In Islam, many a man, including me would jump at the chance of marrying a muslim woman with or without a child. A woman is a woman. No matter what. She is still human. Islam respects that. A life is a life, so NO abortion.

Re-read what you wrote. For convenience, it's quoted immediately below this. You said a man will tell the woman, which read as the MAN is the one who can. Also, you said the man does not HAVE to, but you never said he could NOT re-marry right after a divorce. The woman can NOT, but the man CAN, even if he chooses not to.

When it comes to a divorce. The man and woman must be in the presence of an Imam or a Muslim Leader. Preferably a divorce counsel. The man will tell the woman three times, at three different occasions he would like a divorce. So she has been told thrice that the husband seeks a divorce. Now after that. The man can remarry after the third time he tells the wife he wants a divorce. Of course divorce being a last ditch occurrance (the divorce).

The woman has to wait 3 months before she can remarry. Why? Unfair? NO. It is to ensure she is not pregnant. If she is then financial and other obligations will be figured out. After that she is free to remarry.

The Holy Prophet (SAW) was sent as an example to the earth. Not sent to be worshipped. Naming someone after him, means you want to be like him. All muslims strive to be like the Prophet (SAW) as he was the example. We do not strive to BE the Prophet. He was the last Prophet in accordance with ISLAM.

Naming something after the Prophet (SAW) is trying to create an image of him. As in cartoons which he barred us from doing. It is as though, the Holy Quran is an instructional booklet and the Prophet (SAW) is the illustration for the booklet. There is only one GOD and he is not God, he is the final Messenger sent to the world.

So he has asked not to be put in the form of any image. So he would not be worshipped as the Christians worshipped Isa (Jesus) (AS). We believe Isa (Jesus) (AS) was a prophet of God as well.

So why not name EVERY child after him?

[ariastar]

In the Name Of God, Mosy Gracious, Most Merciful.

It is agreed by many Muslims that the suicide bombings in IRAQ is wrong and not does not fit the specifications as stated in my above response.

And yet quite a number support it. Why should be non-Muslims believe one way or the other when what we see most often is murder by Muslims?

btw, Osama bin Laden was the son of his father's tenth wife. His father had many, MANY women he alternated between, never being married to more than four. Just alternated at his convenience.

[techliveadmin]

In the Name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

Who are we to judge Aria? Unless we are put in those situations we will never fully understand the true significance of them.

[phatlip12]

Why do you keep saying "In the Name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful"? You talked about Islam a million other times on the forums without saying this- why is it you're suddenly saying it now?

[ariastar]

In the Name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

Who are we to judge Aria? Unless we are put in those situations we will never fully understand the true significance of them.

Is this your way of justifying suicide bombing? "We don't know why they do it, so can't judge, so it might be okay, might now." Who I am to judge is someone who wouldn't go bombing innocent people to get into the afterlife to get a bunch of virgins. Wait, I'm a woman, so I'd get nothing. But if I were a man, I still wouldn't bomb people. So, as a decent person who wouldn't take the lives of others to make my point, NO MATTER WHAT IT IS, suicide bombers are assholes who should be alive so we can decapitate them the way Daniel Pearl and many others were. If they'd rather cause severe pain and trauma to the families of those they kill, then they deserve the death they'd otherwise bring to themselves, but in a worse way than bombing. It would make more of an impact for them to say, "This is what I believe, and to prove the strength, I will be decapitated by this blunt knife." Then maybe we'd stop and pay attention to WHY they are doing it rather than condemning them for being evil bastards killing their own people, taking the focus off the WHY and putting it squarely on their hideousness and how evil it makes Muslims look. Your refusal to condemn their actions, only to say that we shouldn't judge because we haven't been in their position, doesn't help your religion in the slightest.

[techliveadmin]

It's not because I am not just saying it now. It is that these are direct questions about Islam and rather show how as a muslim I really am supposed to answer these questions.

Muslims say that wheneer they do something. It is a reminder that whatever we do, God is there. Say it when I get up, leave home, write an exam, change clothes, have a bath. SO that I am always reminded of God.

To obtain God's blessings. It is said in the Holy Quran by Allah (SWT) (GOD) that if you remember God, he will remember you.
I always say it in my mind right before I post on any forum. As this is an Islamic Thread, I rather make it a bit more public of my actions, makes me more comfortable.

[phatlip12]

It's not because I am not just saying it now. It is that these are direct questions about Islam and rather show how as a muslim I really am supposed to answer these questions.

Muslims say that wheneer they do something. It is a reminder that whatever we do, God is there. Say it when I get up, leave home, write an exam, change clothes, have a bath. SO that I am always reminded of God.

To obtain God's blessings. It is said in the Holy Quran by Allah (SWT) (GOD) that if you remember God, he will remember you.
I always say it in my mind right before I post on any forum. As this is an Islamic Thread, I rather make it a bit more public of my actions, makes me more comfortable.

I don't know, it just kind of seems like its more for show. You've talked about Islam MANY other times without saying it (answering direct questions).

[ariastar]

How about saying it out loud to yourself and spare yourself the typing and us from having to see it to the point of annoyance?

By the way, I've seen too much pain and suffering in this world to believe that there could possibly be a god who is gracious and merciful. In catechism, when I was younger, we were taught the following:

Q: Why did god create us?
A: For his own glory.

Q: How can we best thank him?
A: By worshiping and praising him.

They drilled that into our heads every Sunday. Over and over again. Why the hell should I worship or praise someone who created me for his own selfish gain and who is apparently fine letting his creations suffer? Either god is a merciless, uncaring asshole or he doesn't exist. I believe the latter.

[techliveadmin]

In the Name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

Dear Aria,
I do condemn there actions. In Islam it is PROHIBITED during any type of war or other wise to harm women or children and unarmed men. It is wrong in islam to kill the innocent. I disagree with you. Muslims are not PROUD when the INNOCENT DIE. Where are you getting your information?

Islam means PEACE.
a MUSLIM is one who submits.

How can there be an ISLAMIC TERRORIST, if ISLAM means peace?

I totally agree with you the innocent SHOULD NOT be killed. For whatever reason. No one deserves the right to kill another person. That is why the IRAQI people have formed militias to eradicate AL Qaeda in IRAQ to STOP the BLOOD of innocence from FLOWING.

[ariastar]

And before ANYONE says that the proof of god's existence is that there is a world, tell me first where god came from the create this world. If you can't, if you can only say he's always been there, then it's just as easy for me to say that the world has always been there.

[ariastar]

In the Name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

Dear Aria,
I do condemn there actions. In Islam it is PROHIBITED during any type of war or other wise to harm women or children and unarmed men. It is wrong in islam to kill the innocent. I disagree with you. Muslims are not PROUD when the INNOCENT DIE. Where are you getting your information?

Islam means PEACE.
a MUSLIM is one who submits.

How can there be an ISLAMIC TERRORIST, if ISLAM means peace?

I totally agree with you the innocent SHOULD NOT be killed. For whatever reason. No one deserves the right to kill another person. That is why the IRAQI people have formed militias to eradicate AL Qaeda in IRAQ to STOP the BLOOD of innocence from FLOWING.

My information comes from the same source as everyone else's.

You've still avoided answering about the woman who was raped and sentenced to death. If Islam is against violence against women, children, and unarmed men, then why, under Islamic law, was her rapist set free while she is sentenced to death?

Why are many raped girls murdered in honor killings? Why are they the ones condemned to death? Even if their rapist were to be punished, why the girls too? Why do they die for being victims? This is among Muslims. If they are all as peaceful as you say, then why kill the innocent as if they were guilty while the guilty men are very likely to walk free?

[phatlip12]

Under the teachings of Islam, explain to me your religions stance on homosexuality. Should a homosexual be treated differently then anyone else?

[techliveadmin]

In the Name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

For show? No. I did not do it in any other thread because it would be disruptive and annoying to you all. This is an Islamic Thread, so I believe I can post Islamically here?

I would rather do it in all threads, but out of respect for you all I don't.

Dear Aria,
I see where you are coming from.

Why did God create us?
To be worshipped.

How can we best thank him?
By Praising Him and worshipping Him.

How do we know there is a God?
In Islam, we say God is always here. Present at all times. All knowing. In all of my posts I have said " In the Name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful".

God is mercifull. How? Well who wakes you up in the morning?
Alarm clock? NO
Me? NO
Sun? Who made the sunrise? Gravity?

GOD woke you up.

So why is there all this carnage on earth?
We beg for signs of a God, he punishes te disbelievers as signs. So can't He do good to show us he is there, a miracle? There was a time for that. Still there are miracles today.

When was the time for the message and the messengers with the miracles? The Quran is a miracle by itself. Why not go to my first post in this thread and go to the link listed?

A man from the desert. The Holy Prophet Mummad (SAW). Could not read nor write, yet was the messenger to bring the Quran.

A man who was known as the trustworthy one from amongst a city of thievery and lawlessness, everyone trusted him. He brought the Quran. He did not create Islam, nor the Quran. God did.

Miracles? The time for Mircles have gone. The time of punishment is upon us. Who are we to say that there is NO God? Read the Quran, feel nothing? Read it with an intention of finding hope.

Give it a chance. Why not? Because there is No God? Why say so, read the Quran and feel what you heart tells you Aria.

[techliveadmin]

In the Name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

Under Islamic law, homosexuality is prohibited. There was Adam and Eve....

A man and his wife cannot have anal intercourse. It is prohibited.

A person found guilty of condoning homosexulity is given a chance. If not killed.

Homosexuality is wrong. No offense to those of that kind on thse boards, but a question was asked.

[phatlip12]

In the Name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

For show? No. I did not do it in any other thread because it would be disruptive and annoying to you all. This is an Islamic Thread, so I believe I can post Islamically here?


In my opinion, it is pretty annoying. If you did this whenever you spoke of Islam because your religion called for it I think I would be more tolerant of it (scratch that- I WOULD be). However, since this is a new thing and you spoke of it many other times before without saying it I must admit- getting sort of old. Not saying you have to stop though, if you feel obligated by your religion to say it then by all means say it.

[phatlip12]

In the Name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

Under Islamic law, homosexuality is prohibited. There was Adam and Eve....

A man and his wife cannot have anal intercourse. It is prohibited.

A person found guilty of condoning homosexulity is given a chance. If not killed.

Homosexuality is wrong. No offense to those of that kind on thse boards, but a question was asked.

A person is killed. I thought you said Islam was a peaceful religion? Since when is murder peaceful?

[ericjosepi]

Homosexuality is wrong.

So is bigotry.

[ariastar]

How do we know there is a God?
In Islam, we say God is always here. Present at all times. All knowing. In all of my posts I have said " In the Name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful".

God is mercifull. How? Well who wakes you up in the morning?
Alarm clock? NO
Me? NO
Sun? Who made the sunrise? Gravity?

GOD woke you up.

My alarm goes off, I wake up.

Who made god?

So why is there all this carnage on earth?
We beg for signs of a God, he punishes te disbelievers as signs. So can't He do good to show us he is there, a miracle? There was a time for that. Still there are miracles today.

Yet it seems that those most likely to suffer are those who do the least wrong. How about suddenly making there be peace, or suddenly enough food. If god were to do that, you bet every person on this world would believe. If we could all wake up one day to find a world at peace through peace instilled in the hearts of all, then we'd all believe. If god is all-capable, why not do that? Oh, that's right, he wants to punish us for the sins of those who lived before us. Really fair there.

When was the time for the message and the messengers with the miracles? The Quran is a miracle by itself. Why not go to my first post in this thread and go to the link listed?

A man from the desert. The Holy Prophet Mummad (SAW). Could not read nor write, yet was the messenger to bring the Quran.

A man who was known as the trustworthy one from amongst a city of thievery and lawlessness, everyone trusted him. He brought the Quran. He did not create Islam, nor the Quran. God did.

Show me some proof that Muhammad even existed, that he isn't a fairy tale. That the Quran was written isn't proof enough. The very existence of Shakespeare is debatable. Was he one person or several writing under a pen-name? Yet we have plays written under that name.

Miracles? The time for Mircles have gone. The time of punishment is upon us. Who are we to say that there is NO God? Read the Quran, feel nothing? Read it with an intention of finding hope.

Give it a chance. Why not? Because there is No God? Why say so, read the Quran and feel what you heart tells you Aria.

Yay! Punishment for sins of others who lived before us, while the rich and thieving live in prosperity the hard-working people of this world are the ones paying the price.

I've read the bible cover to cover. I've read large excerpts of other holy books. What I feel is that there is no reason to praise someone who created us for a selfish purpose and them punishes us even if we've done nothing to deserve it. Do small children deserve to be burned with acid? Do girls deserve to be born into places where their clitorises will be burned off? If there IS a god, then he's an asshole who torments humans enough that I think hell sounds awfully nice. Can Satan possibly be worse? I think not.

[techliveadmin]

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

Understand we think it is unnatural and disgusting. It is a disease and somethong prohibited.

Wouldn't you want to stop a disease?

[ericjosepi]

Understand we think it is unnatural and disgusting. It is a disease and somethong prohibited.

Wouldn't you want to stop a disease?

Are we still talking about homosexuality? Because that's textbook bigotry. Actually, that's homophobia in the truest, purest sense. And don't hide behind the old "well it's my religious freedom to believe that" bullshit line. This is 2008 and a sky bully can't dictate what every single person on the planet believes. We make our own choices based on our environments. Some of use are just more easily swayed to one doctrine than others.

[techliveadmin]

In the Name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

Muhammad (SAW) built several mosques, established a muslim nation that stands to this day and his grave is in Saudi Arabia. Gave us the Quran (well God gave him and he gave us.)

Why is God Merciless?
Aria, are you dying, diseased?
No, because you are healthy and you do what is right?
Science cannot recreate man.
Open you eyes.

BTW in Islam we are not punished for the sins of others. The Bible preaches that.

Why do the poor suffer?
In Islam, it says that God gave certain people money. It is a test for them, help those in need for invest in their greed.
Look at the state of WallStreet now and all those who charge interest on those who cannot afford to pay it.

God is punishing the greedy as we speak. Now the government is trying to help everyone salvage themselves from a recession. God will help those who have remembered Him.

[techliveadmin]

What ever you want to discuss Eric.

[ericjosepi]

What ever you want to discuss Eric.

I'm pretty sure you brought this on, and your lack of reference to the posts your responding to is confusing me.

[patch]

In the Name of The Flying Spaghetti Monster, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. RAmen.

Wow. Okay. Where to start?

Firsly, your argument, "How do we know there is a God?
In Islam, we say God is always here. Present at all times. All knowing." you need to prove that. The one that makes the claim has the burden of proof. So, prove it, and before you go quoting or referencing any of your holy book, you need to prove that the things within it are true. Before you do that, all your claims are pretty much moot...


Secondly, actually this is for you Aria. I get where you were coming from about punishing those who hurt others in such horrible ways with pain and suffering and death, but, I think that as well is wrong. What makes you have the right to take another persons life? Even if they take someone else's life, its still their life, and not yours. Punish them, non-voilently. Solitary, confinement, these punishments are brutal, but you do not need to take someone's life. That only makes you as bad as them.


"A man and his wife cannot have anal intercourse. It is prohibited." Roflol! Can you link me to said passage please? I bet its just chocked full of comedy.


So, obviously you've clearly shown that you are for violence, exicution, ownership over women. I'd say you've pretty much defeated your self, and your religion, all on your own techliveadmin.


Oh, btw, "The word Islam means "submission", or the total surrender of oneself to God. An adherent of Islam is known as a Muslim, meaning "one who submits (to God)"." - wikipedia. So, you've shown that you're factually wrong on something that can be proven. That puts your other claims up to be questioned as also being wrong. From what I've seen of your posts I'd say "fractal wrongness" fits the bill pretty well.


P.S. I named my penis Muhammad. Thats not a joke.

P.P.S. Badge, props for the Tiananmen Square post. That picture has brought tears to my eyes more than once.

[techliveadmin]

It's confusing me too. Too much questions. Well I am off to bed for now. I will wake up a bit later and answer all questions to my best ability (God Willing).

Homophobia? No.

Homosexual? Does it exist, yes it does. What is it? A desire for same sex. Is it wrong, yes. Thats my take, and well my religious take is above.

Goodnight to all.

[ericjosepi]

It's confusing me too. Too much questions. Well I am off to bed for now. I will wake up a bit later and answer all questions to my best ability (God Willing).

Homophobia? No.

Homosexual? Does it exist, yes it does. What is it? A desire for same sex. Is it wrong, yes. Thats my take, and well my religious take is above.

Goodnight to all.

You didn't answer my question. In the "disease" post were you referencing homosexuality?!

Yes or No? And don't play politics with me on this. Yes or no.

[rabidbadger]

ok, got way behind real quick. but wanna say from the first dozen posts... really glad we can talk about this openly. a lot of us westerners are in the dark.

[patch]

It's confusing me too. Too much questions. Well I am off to bed for now. I will wake up a bit later and answer all questions to my best ability (God Willing).

Homophobia? No.

Homosexual? Does it exist, yes it does. What is it? A desire for same sex. Is it wrong, yes. Thats my take, and well my religious take is above.

Goodnight to all.

If a man is raped by another man, are both men to be put to death? If so, I think there might be some martyrs for another cause... If you get what I'm saying... :rolleyes:

[ariastar]

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

Understand we think it is unnatural and disgusting. It is a disease and somethong prohibited.

Wouldn't you want to stop a disease?

Wow. Talk about blind hate. How is homosexuality a disgusting disease? I think blind hatred is a disease. I ought to start my own religion and say I was illiterate so people would believe me, but have it be about LOVING people.

Your belief on this, without cause, sickens me.

[techliveadmin]

In the Name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

Nice post patch. No comment on aything you have said.

btw Islam does mean PEACE.

A muslim is one who SUBMITS.

Who is wikipedia to tell me off my religion?

Did I find your post offensive patch? Yes I did.

I thank you for it though. Its a contribution.

[lordbyron]

you are stuck with 72 wives.!!!


wow does that mean if you get divorced from all 72 you will end up with 1/72 of your stuff?

Man 1/2 is bad enough

Or is divorce not an option?

[ericjosepi]

You didn't answer my question again, TechLive.

[techliveadmin]

In the Name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

Ok going to make this quick. Its late and I have school tomorow.

To Eric : Yes.

To Patch: The raper is A. Guy been raped is B. A is killed. B is given support and assisstance.

To Aria: Ok. Aria, how are we to know who your grandparents are, or how we know you are a woman?

Why does my belief have to sicken you? It doesn't. Atleast read something from the Quran. HERE IS THE LINK AGAIN : its a VERY small download. You people are commenting on things so much, without evening knowing of the reilgion.

Just download and read.

See what you must. :http://beautifulislam.net/phcdl/file.php?id=61

[lordbyron]

techliveadmin,

Are you sure you wanted to start this? Because if I truly wanted to know Islam I would have looked on the web like I do when I want to know information on any topic that I desire, and as strange as it sounds I don't expect to learn about religion in a technology forum. And I truly believe this is the wrong place to have a discussion about this topic.

[ariastar]

In the Name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

Muhammad (SAW) built several mosques, established a muslim nation that stands to this day and his grave is in Saudi Arabia. Gave us the Quran (well God gave him and he gave us.)

And the people who used their own hands clearly had nothing to do with those mosques being built. CLEARLY. How did I not see if before, that no PEOPLE built those? Sense the sarcasm. Some random grave won't convince me of anything but that a person who died was buried. Prove to us that that grave is his.

Why is God Merciless?
Aria, are you dying, diseased?
No, because you are healthy and you do what is right?
Science cannot recreate man.
Open you eyes.

If only you knew what I had to do to stay alive and not die, in the most literal sense. How hard I hard to fight, the surgeries, the butchering of my internal organs to try to get something that would keep me alive. I've lost my entire large intestine, among other things. I don't abuse my body, have never smoked, rarely drink, never done crack or any of that other shit. Yet I've gone through hell and back, and now an in the situation where the BEST CASE SCENARIO is that I'll have to have a major abdominal surgery for the mere chance to have a baby "naturally," or, at worst, in vitro fertilization after several weeks of daily injections Cody will have to give to me at home, again for a chance. Is this mercy for someone who spends her life trying to make the lives of others better?

Open YOUR eyes, kid. Look at your life. What kind of "merciful god" would put a kid in a situation like that? What did you do to deserve it? Nothing more than to be born to the wrong people. And YOU are being punished for that, when you have no control over it.

BTW in Islam we are not punished for the sins of others. The Bible preaches that.

O...kay...and so all those children burned and tormented did something of enough magnitude that this is their punishment?

Why do the poor suffer?
In Islam, it says that God gave certain people money. It is a test for them, help those in need for invest in their greed.

LOL, in America, the poor qualify for welfare that workers have to pay for. You get by being "poor." Just don't work, punch out a bunch of kids, and people who work are required by law to pay taxes that pay for you to have a house, food, and money every month. Have another kid and you get even more money without having to work a day in your life for it.

Look at the state of WallStreet now and all those who charge interest on those who cannot afford to pay it.

Before you try talking about American finances, learn about it. MANY people who can't afford the interest are people who couldn't afford food without putting it on a credit card, yet, because they work, they qualify for no help paying for their food. They are basically being punished for trying to make their way, trying to support themselves.

God is punishing the greedy as we speak. Now the government is trying to help everyone salvage themselves from a recession. God will help those who have remembered Him.

Yup. Oil tycoons are REALLY being punished. They're forced to live lives of luxury so that the rest of us just can't understand them. Boo hoo for them.

[ericjosepi]

To Eric : Yes.

Thank you for acknowledging homophobia as a religious doctrine in Islam for me then.

[techliveadmin]

In the Name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

Divorce is an option. No we cannot have 72 wives.
If you are a matyr and you go to heaven the number varies.

I don't have much knowledge on this matter, so tomorow I will speak to my religious leaders and consult my Islamic Books.

Goodnight, I need sleep! School!!!!

[patch]

In the Name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

Nice post patch. No comment on aything you have said.

btw Islam does mean PEACE.

A muslim is one who SUBMITS.

Who is wikipedia to tell me off my religion?

Did I find your post offensive patch? Yes I did.

I thank you for it though. Its a contribution.


In the Name of The Flying Spaghetti Monster, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. RAmen.

Well, if you knew how Wikipedia worked, you would know that the information there is referenced. Go ahead and go to the wikipedia page on Islam and click the [2] or [3] after what I quoted. It'll pop you down to the references the information comes from.

Okay? Should I care that you found it offensive? You said nothing was off limits here. I hold no respect for fairy tales and no respect for those who support the things I stated in my last post. "violence, exicution, ownership over women." in case you forgot.

[phatlip12]

If Islam is a peaceful religion then what would justify murdering a homosexual. Killing a person is the opposite of peace. See, this is the problem. The true teachings of your religion are being altered by the hatred of man. Without knowing a whole lot about your religion, I gota say I HIGHLY doubt the Koran states its ok to kill a homosexual. Is this true? If your answer is yes and if you still believe Islam is a peaceful religion then where is the justification in murder?

By thinking its okay for a homosexual to be killed you're saying Islam doesn't allow for free will. I'm not a muslim, but if I was a homosexual and had different believes then you I would be killed and you would be ok with that? Techlive, if I was a homosexual would you be ok with me being killed? If I was a nice man, respected your beliefs, gave to the poor, cared for the sick but happened to be gay it would be ok for me to die right?

If its ok to kill a person that has different beliefs then you then why wouldn't it be ok for a non muslim to a kill a muslim? Same thing. I don't belive in what you believe and you don't believe in what I believe so...I kill you. How would you feel about that. I don't believe this, and I know I may sound harsh but I'm just trying to get you thinking about this. This is the same thing. If my religion didn't agree with muslims would it be ok for my religion to murder muslims? After all, your religion doesnt agree with homosexuals so its ok to kill them.

[lordbyron]

btw Islam does mean PEACE.

A muslim is one who SUBMITS.



9/11/2001 did not seem too peaceful

[ariastar]

In the Name of The Flying Spaghetti Monster, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. RAmen.

LOL, thanks for the laugh!

Secondly, actually this is for you Aria. I get where you were coming from about punishing those who hurt others in such horrible ways with pain and suffering and death, but, I think that as well is wrong. What makes you have the right to take another persons life? Even if they take someone else's life, its still their life, and not yours. Punish them, non-voilently. Solitary, confinement, these punishments are brutal, but you do not need to take someone's life. That only makes you as bad as them.

You misunderstand. I said if someone want to get their point across, have themselves decapitated. Don't go off and take out innocent people. There is little as deplorable as killing innocent people while killing yourself. If those people want to die so badly, I can think of many other ways for them to die that don't involve blasting small children to smithereens while they're at it.

So, obviously you've clearly shown that you are for violence, exicution, ownership over women. I'd say you've pretty much defeated your self, and your religion, all on your own techliveadmin.

Unfortunately his attempt to make Islam seem peaceful only makes it seem full of violence, disrespect, and hate. Sadly, he sees this at peaceful and right.

P.S. I named my penis Muhammad. Thats not a joke.

Sorry, this made me laugh my ass off. I think it fell behind the couch.

[ariastar]

You didn't answer my question. In the "disease" post were you referencing homosexuality?!

Yes or No? And don't play politics with me on this. Yes or no.

He won't. I've tried getting him to answer before to why it's wrong beyond some mythical person saying so. How it's a disease in a religion that's supposed to be peaceful, how he can condone the murder of gays.

[samureye]

I really want to close this thread.

[lordbyron]

I really want to close this thread.

Please Do !!!!

[ariastar]

btw Islam does mean PEACE.

A muslim is one who SUBMITS.

Could have fooled us, with all the bombings and hatred and killing of gays and women who are victims of violence. You STILL haven't commented on the woman who was sentenced to death for being a rape victim.

Who is wikipedia to tell me off my religion?

Considering the Wiki entries are edited very quickly by people who know far more than either of us, and PROVIDES SOURCES, I'd say it's a good deal more credible than you are. Even when asked, you ignore the request for sources.

Did I find your post offensive patch? Yes I did.

As a woman, I am offended that you think women should die for being victims while those who hurt them walk free.

[patch]

Why does my belief have to sicken you? It doesn't. Atleast read something from the Quran. HERE IS THE LINK AGAIN : its a VERY small download. You people are commenting on things so much, without evening knowing of the reilgion.

Just download and read.

See what you must. :http://beautifulislam.net/phcdl/file.php?id=61

8:12-13,17, 3:152, 2:216,17, 4:84, 8:38-39, 9:5. I'm just going to stop there. The Quran is filled with violent orders. Violence, when not in any sort of artistic form, sickens me. Violence is not okay. If you think it is, you're a sick and twisted person. Violence should only be used as a last resort, but this does not state that. Once again. Fractal wrongness.

[ariastar]

To Eric : Yes.

Answers nothing. You are evading answering.

To Patch: The raper is A. Guy been raped is B. A is killed. B is given support and assisstance.

Yet when a woman is B, she gets killed while her rapist walks free.

To Aria: Ok. Aria, how are we to know who your grandparents are, or how we know you are a woman?

I don't know who one of my grandparents is. However, genetic testing can prove whether or not the other three are, as well as my chromosomal make-up. Let's leave out the debate over whether or not gender-reassignment makes one a man or woman as I know you'd say those people should die.

In addition to my chromosomal make-up being XX, I have breast, a vulva, vagina, cervix, uterus, two fallopian tubes, and an ovary (lost one). I get killer PMS that makes me cry and sometimes pissy. Spend three minutes around me and you'll have no doubt about it.

Why does my belief have to sicken you? It doesn't. Atleast read something from the Quran. HERE IS THE LINK AGAIN : its a VERY small download. You people are commenting on things so much, without evening knowing of the reilgion.

Just download and read.

See what you must. :http://beautifulislam.net/phcdl/file.php?id=61

Your belief sickens us because your belief is to hate someone for loving someone of the same gender, regardless of whether or not they are good people who try to help others. You show mercy to a straight man who rapes a woman, but would put to death a gay man who wants to teach illiterate adults how to read.

This is not beautiful. This is pure, blind hate.

[ariastar]

I really want to close this thread.

If he started it and said everything goes, then it's up to him. if he asks, close it. Otherwise, leave it open.

[patch]

LOL, thanks for the laugh!

No worries. Any time you need a laugh, just ask.


You misunderstand. I said if someone want to get their point across, have themselves decapitated. Don't go off and take out innocent people. There is little as deplorable as killing innocent people while killing yourself. If those people want to die so badly, I can think of many other ways for them to die that don't involve blasting small children to smithereens while they're at it.

Okay, yeah. Now I understand you. Thanks for clearing that up. :)

Unfortunately his attempt to make Islam seem peaceful only makes it seem full of violence, disrespect, and hate. Sadly, he sees this at peaceful and right.

I've said it for Christianity and I'll say it for Islam. The best argument against Islam is the Quran. (Btw, the one for Christianity says "the Bible". Not "the Quran". Just want to make that clear. :p)

Sorry, this made me laugh my ass off. I think it fell behind the couch.

Don't be sorry. While its honestly not a joke, it is meant to be funny.

I really want to close this thread.

Careful, if you do that he might cry "religious persecution".

[ariastar]

In the Name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

Divorce is an option. No we cannot have 72 wives.
If you are a matyr and you go to heaven the number varies.

Well, you said earlier at least 12 virgins, yet you also said up to four wives. Adultery? Or do you marry and divorce and re-marry who you want to bed?

Bombing kids doesn't make you a martyr, no matter what you think. it makes you a cold-hearted killer.

[ryudo]

I swear T live is a troll.

[patch]

Yet when a woman is B, she gets killed while her rapist walks free.

Thank you for pointing that out. Was just about to say that. Sexual equality FTW huh?

In addition to my chromosomal make-up being XX, I have breast, a vulva, vagina, cervix, uterus, two fallopian tubes, and an ovary (lost one). I get killer PMS that makes me cry and sometimes pissy. Spend three minutes around me and you'll have no doubt about it.

Are you trying to talk me out of going to Comic-Con... :p

[ariastar]

If Islam is a peaceful religion then what would justify murdering a homosexual. Killing a person is the opposite of peace. See, this is the problem. The true teachings of your religion are being altered by the hatred of man. Without knowing a whole lot about your religion, I gota say I HIGHLY doubt the Koran states its ok to kill a homosexual. Is this true? If your answer is yes and if you still believe Islam is a peaceful religion then where is the justification in murder?

By thinking its okay for a homosexual to be killed you're saying Islam doesn't allow for free will. I'm not a muslim, but if I was a homosexual and had different believes then you I would be killed and you would be ok with that? Techlive, if I was a homosexual would you be ok with me being killed? If I was a nice man, respected your beliefs, gave to the poor, cared for the sick but happened to be gay it would be ok for me to die right?

If its ok to kill a person that has different beliefs then you then why wouldn't it be ok for a non muslim to a kill a muslim? Same thing. I don't belive in what you believe and you don't believe in what I believe so...I kill you. How would you feel about that. I don't believe this, and I know I may sound harsh but I'm just trying to get you thinking about this. This is the same thing. If my religion didn't agree with muslims would it be ok for my religion to murder muslims? After all, your religion doesnt agree with homosexuals so its ok to kill them.

The Koran/Quran DOES justify killing gays, Kyle. The bible does too, and I turned my back on it. Killing people for loving people is just despicable.

The one person on this entire forum the most tolerant of this kid's hatred is a gay man, and Tech would be fine with his murder because his faith says so. I think that right there sums it up.

[samureye]

From what I have read (only last 2 pages and not all the posts) he hasn't posted anything wrong. By that I mean, he may have said X Y and Z, but it was in a respectful manner.

Definately a touchy subject, but overall if I sense this is getting more out of hand I'd be closing. I've already gotten a report, but it wasn't anything worth acting upon. My eyes are on the thread.

[ariastar]

8:12-13,17, 3:152, 2:216,17, 4:84, 8:38-39, 9:5. I'm just going to stop there. The Quran is filled with violent orders. Violence, when not in any sort of artistic form, sickens me. Violence is not okay. If you think it is, you're a sick and twisted person. Violence should only be used as a last resort, but this does not state that. Once again. Fractal wrongness.

Bravo!

Odd how the only actual Quran referencing comes not from the Muslim trying to defend its peace, but from a non-Muslim who the Muslim will claim knows less that him.

[ariastar]

From what I have read (only last 2 pages and not all the posts) he hasn't posted anything wrong. By that I mean, he may have said X Y and Z, but it was in a respectful manner.

Definately a touchy subject, but overall if I sense this is getting more out of hand I'd be closing. I've already gotten a report, but it wasn't anything worth acting upon. My eyes are on the thread.

He said he had to go to bed and consult his religious leaders. If true, he's in bed, and should have the chance to answer these questions after being given the chance to consult with those leaders.

No one is making anyone read this thread. Whoever complained can just read other threads.

[xibalba]

He said he had to go to bed and consult his religious leaders. If true, he's in bed, and should have the chance to answer these questions after being given the chance to consult with those leaders.

No one is making anyone read this thread. Whoever complained can just read other threads.

I am guilty of the report :D, I just find it very offensive saying homosexuality is a disease. I'll hold my tongue and not post what I think because it would most definitely get me banned.

[ariastar]

I am guilty of the report :D, I just find it very offensive saying homosexuality is a disease. I'll hold my tongue and not post what I think because it would most definitely get me banned.

I find that extremely offensive as well. I can probably guess the type of things you want to say, and I agree with what you'd say, but aren't. I'm trying my damnedest to hold my tongue as well.

[phatlip12]

The Koran/Quran DOES justify killing gays, Kyle. The bible does too, and I turned my back on it. Killing people for loving people is just despicable.

The one person on this entire forum the most tolerant of this kid's hatred is a gay man, and Tech would be fine with his murder because his faith says so. I think that right there sums it up.

Hmm, I'm interested in looking more into this. Do you have any proof where I can see this for myself? If theres any truth to this being said in the bible it pretty much sums up why I'm a Christians whos denomination is the church of Phatlip. I'm a Christian but I have a ton of my own beliefs on my religion.

[ryudo]

All this teen ever talks about is how Gays are diseased pushes his religion on people talks about how he does not masterbate and then how he wishes to kill people and tries to justify it.

He is a blatant troll.

[patch]

Hmm, I'm interested in looking more into this. Do you have any proof where I can see this for myself?

Give me a minute or two and I can pull it for you. (The Quran sucks to find passages in.)

[ariastar]

All this teen ever talks about is how Gays are diseased pushes his religion on people talks about how he does not masterbate and then how he wishes to kill people and tries to justify it.

He is a blatant troll.

I've mentioned this as a possibility before. No matter what the topic, he manages to find a way to turn it into a thread about Islam and how homosexuality is evil and masturbation is as terrible as a drug.

[samureye]

All this teen ever talks about is how Gays are diseased pushes his religion on people talks about how he does not masterbate and then how he wishes to kill people and tries to justify it.

He is a blatant troll.

Not a troll, no. He posts on the forums "regularly" but this entire thing is just very touchy.

Aria - As for what he is saying being offensive - I don't have to agree with what anyone is saying here, or disagree (staying out of the topic of the thread :) ) and all I am interested in is if anything happens that I can clearly see is out of line. Some people claiming to be offended by this in particular is not enough (yet) to warrant a closing though.

[samureye]

I've mentioned this as a possibility before. No matter what the topic, he manages to find a way to turn it into a thread about Islam and how homosexuality is evil and masturbation is as terrible as a drug.

I'll be reviewing his account right now.

[patch]

Quran on Homosexuality:

29:28-29 And Lot! (Remember) when he said unto his folk: Lo! ye commit lewdness such as no creature did before you.
For come ye not in unto males, and cut ye not the road (for travellers), and commit ye not abomination in your meetings ? But the answer of his folk was only that they said: Bring Allah's doom upon us if thou art a truthteller!

Bible on Homosexuality:

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

EDIT: There are more passages in both books about it, but I really don't want to put the effort into finding them.

[geiselle]

Firsly, your argument, "How do we know there is a God?
In Islam, we say God is always here. Present at all times. All knowing." you need to prove that. The one that makes the claim has the burden of proof. So, prove it, and before you go quoting or referencing any of your holy book, you need to prove that the things within it are true. Before you do that, all your claims are pretty much moot...

You can't prove beliefs. Asking him to prove that the things in Qur'an are true is like asking someone to prove that the characters, locations and statements in their favorite novel are true--the level of belief involved is just exponentially greater in the former case. It's belief that makes people present the contents of "holy books" as fact, not just the contents themselves.

[tokenuser]

I find the corruption of the Islamic faith to be extremely sad.
Mohammed is a historical figure. His existance can be traced with far greater authentication than that of Jesus.

As a prophet, he was a great teacher.
As a man he was a great leader ... and the Islamic faith, as taught by Mohammed, was very pure and all encompassing. Women had equal rights as men.

Now, remember that for mush of the last 2 millenia, the only education most people received was religious instruction. Most of those teachings were on morals (basic law), health (Kosher/Halal food prep was food hygene practice), and family/community. Indeed, religious instruction still forms the basis of many educational programs, but for the illiterate masses, it was the only education they receive, and the ruling powers soon realised that it was a way to control the masses ... so they started to interpret the Koran (and Bible for that matter) as they saw fit as a means to control the people. Suddenly, women were secondary to the husband, non believers (in the exact same sect of the religion) were heretics.

Unfortunately, the Christian faith (especially around the middle ages and the time of the Spanish Inquisition), was the same, but despite the different sects of Christianity out there, there is (no longer) a violent objection to the way people worship god.

Sad thing is that whether you are Jewish, Christian, or Muslim, you are worshipping the same God. The old testament is the same, its just the sequels that are different.

[bani-banan]

I have tons of questions.
My mothers is a roman catholic. My dad was/is Muslim.
Having that as a background, I had a REALLY awful upbringing.

The whole Muslim culture, and beliefs and thoughts of people were really awful.

Because I work in medicine (currently), helping people, trying to give them value to life, trying to extend their lives by almost begging doctors to pay them a visit, how do you think I feel when I read somewhere that a woman was shot in the head for giving birth to another mans child? Not just it was another mans, she was raped. I'm devastated. You know why?
Because if she had lived in a non muslim country, she would have been given psychiatric help.
Yes, Islam prohibits all non-scientific help. [Not sure from where, but trust me. My class was astonished by how inhumane the Quran is]

Now, why you say, has my dad almost converted?
Simply because of the fact stated above.
My dad has had 4 heart attacks (Myocardial infarctions).
Stroke, and has type 2 diabetes.

My mom just removed a tumor that was just under her tongue.
She has one tumor remaining on her right kidney.

That may seem selfish, but why would Allah bring such evil things to people that have done nothing wrong in their lives?

My mom was raped when she was 16, and forced to give birth to a child. She later adopted. Now, the child is 30something, and wants money from us. Why? "God says so". Bringing in God for your own greed... every other religious person does it. Prove me wrong.


Muhammad caricature: I'm currently drawing a picture of Muhammad sucking my dick.

If you wish to send me deathletters and anthrax, my emil is bani.free@gmail.com
I'll give you my homeaddress. BTW, if you're not a Muslim, you can send me love letters. (I've been feeling down lately :( )

Anal sex: If they ever tried it, they wouldn't have written that.

Homosexuality: Techlivesomething. Do not address the quran in here. If you do, I can not respect you as a self thinking person. Why do you seriously thing straight people are superior? Do you feel homosexuals are trying to take your rights? Do you feel that they are crossing the line by wanting to have BUTTSECKS with another man? Do they impose their sexuality onto you?
Most certainly not! They don't impose. Us fucking straights impose heterosexuality onto them, by decapitating them.

So. Pure bullshit here, not in any particular order.
If you feel offended, imagen how the rest of the 5-10% of the saudi Arabian people feel. (Yes, 5% up to 10% are homosexuals. Not because they "want to try it out because it seems like it's cool", but because they're born that way, they have no intentions in changing, and they are homosexuals because they love getting sausage once in a while).


I feel strongly about homosexuality because my best friend is.
I was once against "cave diggin". But after having a talk with him. After getting an EDUCATION, after having hit rock bottom in my life, I decided to change - and make my world a better place for me - in peace.

Your prophet in short:
He was a simple man.
His 30s. He decides that he needs to spend some time alone. For a couple of your or so, in a cave. Without any access to food or water.
He later, after a couple of year, sees an angel. It's Gabriel. Telling him that the Christians have twisted his words. He then gives Muhammad the "realz" word of god. Muhammad being illiterate, came down from the mountain, spreading the words of God. Luckily, there is a literate villager in the town.
Yatta yatta yatta. Crusades, rape, molestation, murder, "fight for freedom".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9dXGJ2rYdA


I am willing to die for the removal of teaching a specific religion onto children. Like ONLY islamic teachings, ONLY catholic teachings etc.

Sweden has luckily stated in its Curricular planning that; Swedish teacher are obligated to inform of every religions teachings, also, every religions flaws and criticism ever brought to it.

Haven't had time to spell check. I'll probably remove or edit some stuff.

Don't bann me bro. I've yet to fulfill my rev3forum needs.

[patch]

You can't prove beliefs. Asking him to prove that the things in Qur'an are true is like asking someone to prove that the characters, locations and statements in their favorite novel are true--the level of belief involved is just exponentially greater in the former case. It's belief that makes people present the contents of "holy books" as fact, not just the contents themselves.

Thats the point mate... It can't be presented as fact because it cannot be proven.

[techliveadmin]

So I see the thread has gone a long way without me. I have read all posts after page 6 thus far. Now I will adress a few things.

Yes I asked for this thread to be a free for all. No rules. I am still not offended about any comments made. Sure it may look as though I always push this stuff at you all, but not really. I just do it once in a while. This single thread has attracted alot of the wrong attention. What I really wanted to address was 9/11, war in Iraq and the Israeli/Palestinian war.

However I chose to allow others to ask questions. My aim was not to insult anyone but to shed some light on the touchy issues.

One issue I cannot resolve is Aria's. That is with the woman who was raped. What I can say is that in case B. The woman in any normal muslim society would be helped.

What you must understand is, Islam teaches one thing, people practise it another.

My stance on homosexuality? If I had a gay friend let him be. Do I think it is wrong? Yes. But I don;t have the guts to hurt anyone. Should gays live? Yes.

Why not? Well they aren't doing any harm to me.

Do I still think it is a disease? Thats my opinion, you all had your share of insults at our God and Prophet.

Why is Islam so violent? Islam isn't. There will always be the few to take things too far and not read and understand the Quran.
It teaches forgiveness and peace and love. However in today's societies, most just look for something that says kill and do it.

If I came across a homosexual I'll let him be. If he was a muslim who claimed to be homosexual, well under Islamic law he'd be investigated and tried.

Thats in Islamic countries. What. did you all think I meant all gays have to be killed. No they don't. They are people to. Let them live, just as long they do not influence me or anyone close to me.

Woman raped and killed? Or gave birth to a child?
Normally, she would be cared for and the man killed.
So in Aria's case and so much others, why was the woman punished and not the man?

Simply because these Muslim men who follow God's word, don;t practise it. Islam tells us to care for women. These idiots punish them? A woman with who got pregnant because of raped is supposed to be cared for. Loved, taken after.

The man Islamically is to be hanged or stoned to death. Now This is according to my religious leaders. These so called men who sentence women to jail or beatings or death cannot proclaim themselves as following the word of God. As there is no place for such intolerable cruelty in Islam. The man is to be killed. No matter what. The crime is horrendous.

At the time of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), Muslims, Christians and Other faiths lived together in peace. Were there gays around, yeah, who knows, can;t say there won't. Did we go on a murderous campaign and killed all of the other persons of other faiths or gays? NO.

Why, because the Prophet (SAW) taught love and compassion and respect for his fellow man. If it was a muslim who proclaimed he was gay then forgiveness was sought, help was sought and so on. If he persisted, he was jailed, if he comitted sodomy, well seeing the crime he would have been hanged.

Death is a last option. We all seek forgiveness first. No one wants to kill anyone. There are the few literate men, with money who influence the illeterate to kill and murder and all these other wrong things. I am a Muslim and I stand for God, peace and justice.

I apologize to anyone for any offense made. But these are my teachings and my religion. I took great care in not trying to offend anyone, if I did, sorry. But you all did ask what I think and what my answers were. I gave them.

[ariastar]

You can't prove beliefs. Asking him to prove that the things in Qur'an are true is like asking someone to prove that the characters, locations and statements in their favorite novel are true--the level of belief involved is just exponentially greater in the former case. It's belief that makes people present the contents of "holy books" as fact, not just the contents themselves.

So then how can he tell us that it's a fact something is wrong? He's got nothing more to back it up than I've got proof that there's an invisible pink unicorn prancing about.

[ericjosepi]

So then how can he tell us that it's a fact something is wrong? He's got nothing more to back it up than I've got proof that there's an invisible pink unicorn prancing about.

I found a purple one pulling a cart...

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t206/ericjosepi/vlcsnap-2743546.png

[ariastar]

I find the corruption of the Islamic faith to be extremely sad.
Mohammed is a historical figure. His existance can be traced with far greater authentication than that of Jesus.

As a prophet, he was a great teacher.
As a man he was a great leader ... and the Islamic faith, as taught by Mohammed, was very pure and all encompassing. Women had equal rights as men.

Now, remember that for mush of the last 2 millenia, the only education most people received was religious instruction. Most of those teachings were on morals (basic law), health (Kosher/Halal food prep was food hygene practice), and family/community. Indeed, religious instruction still forms the basis of many educational programs, but for the illiterate masses, it was the only education they receive, and the ruling powers soon realised that it was a way to control the masses ... so they started to interpret the Koran (and Bible for that matter) as they saw fit as a means to control the people. Suddenly, women were secondary to the husband, non believers (in the exact same sect of the religion) were heretics.

Unfortunately, the Christian faith (especially around the middle ages and the time of the Spanish Inquisition), was the same, but despite the different sects of Christianity out there, there is (no longer) a violent objection to the way people worship god.

Sad thing is that whether you are Jewish, Christian, or Muslim, you are worshipping the same God. The old testament is the same, its just the sequels that are different.

This is why I have no respect for any modern religion. While the original men (for the record, I believe Jesus and Mohammad lived and were MEN, but NOT gods by any means, and NOT perfect, no matter what anyone says) who taught people love and compassion and forgiveness, over time their memories have been marred by others using faith in those men and claiming this and that for their own purposes, such as that homosexuality is evil, that women are to be submissive to men rather than to have the same rights, etc.. So when people now start on how this is this and that is that, because a book says so, as if a book can't be edited over time by corrupt individuals, then, frankly, I think that person's an idiot. The Koran, Bible, etc., have SOME pretty stories, sure, but a LOT of hate in them, little tolerance, a lot of punishment and stoning.

I don't believe Jesus or Mohammad would have said that gays should die, that women should be property (men getting to have more than one wife but women not getting to have more than one husband says women have fewer rights), that cutting hair is sinful, and so on.

Modern religion is NOTHING like it was originally intended to be, and anyone who believes something now because a book somewhere says it and leaves no room for personal thought or personal beliefs...well, those people are idiots. We have free thought for a reason. USE IT instead of blindly following a book that, without doubt, HAS been edited.

[ryudo]

My god is a blue horse with a hot redhead who escorts you across waterfalls.
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/4206/siennabluehorse1we8.jpg

[ariastar]

I have tons of questions.
My mothers is a roman catholic. My dad was/is Muslim.
Having that as a background, I had a REALLY awful upbringing.

The whole Muslim culture, and beliefs and thoughts of people were really awful.

Because I work in medicine (currently), helping people, trying to give them value to life, trying to extend their lives by almost begging doctors to pay them a visit, how do you think I feel when I read somewhere that a woman was shot in the head for giving birth to another mans child? Not just it was another mans, she was raped. I'm devastated. You know why?
Because if she had lived in a non muslim country, she would have been given psychiatric help.
Yes, Islam prohibits all non-scientific help. [Not sure from where, but trust me. My class was astonished by how inhumane the Quran is]

Now, why you say, has my dad almost converted?
Simply because of the fact stated above.
My dad has had 4 heart attacks (Myocardial infarctions).
Stroke, and has type 2 diabetes.

My mom just removed a tumor that was just under her tongue.
She has one tumor remaining on her right kidney.

That may seem selfish, but why would Allah bring such evil things to people that have done nothing wrong in their lives?

My mom was raped when she was 16, and forced to give birth to a child. She later adopted. Now, the child is 30something, and wants money from us. Why? "God says so". Bringing in God for your own greed... every other religious person does it. Prove me wrong.


Muhammad caricature: I'm currently drawing a picture of Muhammad sucking my dick.

If you wish to send me deathletters and anthrax, my emil is bani.free@gmail.com
I'll give you my homeaddress. BTW, if you're not a Muslim, you can send me love letters. (I've been feeling down lately :( )

Anal sex: If they ever tried it, they wouldn't have written that.

Homosexuality: Techlivesomething. Do not address the quran in here. If you do, I can not respect you as a self thinking person. Why do you seriously thing straight people are superior? Do you feel homosexuals are trying to take your rights? Do you feel that they are crossing the line by wanting to have BUTTSECKS with another man? Do they impose their sexuality onto you?
Most certainly not! They don't impose. Us fucking straights impose heterosexuality onto them, by decapitating them.

So. Pure bullshit here, not in any particular order.
If you feel offended, imagen how the rest of the 5-10% of the saudi Arabian people feel. (Yes, 5% up to 10% are homosexuals. Not because they "want to try it out because it seems like it's cool", but because they're born that way, they have no intentions in changing, and they are homosexuals because they love getting sausage once in a while).


I feel strongly about homosexuality because my best friend is.
I was once against "cave diggin". But after having a talk with him. After getting an EDUCATION, after having hit rock bottom in my life, I decided to change - and make my world a better place for me - in peace.

Your prophet in short:
He was a simple man.
His 30s. He decides that he needs to spend some time alone. For a couple of your or so, in a cave. Without any access to food or water.
He later, after a couple of year, sees an angel. It's Gabriel. Telling him that the Christians have twisted his words. He then gives Muhammad the "realz" word of god. Muhammad being illiterate, came down from the mountain, spreading the words of God. Luckily, there is a literate villager in the town.
Yatta yatta yatta. Crusades, rape, molestation, murder, "fight for freedom".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9dXGJ2rYdA


I am willing to die for the removal of teaching a specific religion onto children. Like ONLY islamic teachings, ONLY catholic teachings etc.

Sweden has luckily stated in its Curricular planning that; Swedish teacher are obligated to inform of every religions teachings, also, every religions flaws and criticism ever brought to it.

Haven't had time to spell check. I'll probably remove or edit some stuff.

Don't bann me bro. I've yet to fulfill my rev3forum needs.

This is an EXCELLENT post. I want to comment, but won't. This post speaks for itself.

[geiselle]

Thats the point mate... It can't be presented as fact because it cannot be proven.

Well, yeah. I'm just arguing that questioning the validity of the texts this guy's beliefs are based on in a thread that is (ostensibly) for learning about those beliefs defeats the purpose of the thread. The beliefs and issues related to them are the point, and they're real and worth talking about even if the texts the beliefs are based on haven't been or, due to their nature, just can't be proven to be factual.

And religious people really have to present their beliefs as being based on fact; to do otherwise would be hypocritical.

[njshadow]

Being a born-again Christian, I'm against Islam. However, in his defense, because I've been cornered before, I believe that homosexuality is wrong as well. God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. :D

[techliveadmin]

In the Name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

To address bani.

The Holy Prophet (SAW) did not live in caves for years. He was a trader, a man in business. He spent time in A cave to reflect. He was an honest man. A CHRISTIAN man told him he was a prophet after the Prophet (SAW) had an encounter with an angel. What you must understand is, he influenced many. For 500 years everything went well with Islam. 30-40 years back no one complained of Islam. Why all the hate now?

[ryudo]

Bani excellent post.

[masherscf]

I have tons of questions.


While I appreciate your post, It does violate forum rules of conduct. Please tone it down.

[ericjosepi]

God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. :D

Tee-hee aren't we so clever?

[ariastar]

One issue I cannot resolve is Aria's. That is with the woman who was raped. What I can say is that in case B. The woman in any normal muslim society would be helped.

That woman WAS in a "normal muslim society." She was in a Muslim land, and still she was the one punished. We hear a LOT about women killed in honor killings for being raped. Where's the honor in killing a victim?

My stance on homosexuality? If I had a gay friend let him be. Do I think it is wrong? Yes. But I don;t have the guts to hurt anyone. Should gays live? Yes.

Why not? Well they aren't doing any harm to me.

Do I still think it is a disease? Thats my opinion, you all had your share of insults at our God and Prophet.

Backtracking on what you said now.

A disease can be prevented or cured. Being gay can not. Just because it's not something you'd want for your life doesn't make it wrong. The thought of giving oral sex to another girl makes my stomach queasy, but most lesbians feel the same about anything sexual with a man. Neither is wrong. Neither is a disease.

Why is Islam so violent? Islam isn't. There will always be the few to take things too far and not read and understand the Quran.
It teaches forgiveness and peace and love. However in today's societies, most just look for something that says kill and do it.

If I came across a homosexual I'll let him be. If he was a muslim who claimed to be homosexual, well under Islamic law he'd be investigated and tried.

Thats in Islamic countries. What. did you all think I meant all gays have to be killed. No they don't. They are people to. Let them live, just as long they do not influence me or anyone close to me.

Could'a fooled us. If there's one thing the US won't do, it's strap bombs to a teenage boy and send him to the middle of a market to blow up kids. This stuff is hardly worth a mention on the news anymore it's so common.

Woman raped and killed? Or gave birth to a child?
Normally, she would be cared for and the man killed.
So in Aria's case and so much others, why was the woman punished and not the man?

Simply because these Muslim men who follow God's word, don;t practise it. Islam tells us to care for women. These idiots punish them? A woman with who got pregnant because of raped is supposed to be cared for. Loved, taken after.

The man Islamically is to be hanged or stoned to death. Now This is according to my religious leaders. These so called men who sentence women to jail or beatings or death cannot proclaim themselves as following the word of God. As there is no place for such intolerable cruelty in Islam. The man is to be killed. No matter what. The crime is horrendous.

So damned often the women are killed and the men walk free. This religion you defend as peaceful routinely kills the victims because they are woman. You will try to say otherwise, that it should be otherwise, but you say in the same breath that it's all about peace.

At the time of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), Muslims, Christians and Other faiths lived together in peace. Were there gays around, yeah, who knows, can;t say there won't. Did we go on a murderous campaign and killed all of the other persons of other faiths or gays? NO.

Why, because the Prophet (SAW) taught love and compassion and respect for his fellow man. If it was a muslim who proclaimed he was gay then forgiveness was sought, help was sought and so on. If he persisted, he was jailed, if he comitted sodomy, well seeing the crime he would have been hanged.

Yeah, there WERE murderous rampages. Ever heard of the crusades? Jesus and Muhammad may not have participated, but they happened in the names of these men. What these men stood for is no longer happening. Peace, love, and acceptance has given way to violence, hate, and intolerance of others, while still being in the names of these men.

Death is a last option. We all seek forgiveness first. No one wants to kill anyone. There are the few literate men, with money who influence the illeterate to kill and murder and all these other wrong things. I am a Muslim and I stand for God, peace and justice.

You may stand for peace and justice, but, unfortunately, your religion no longer does. There are those of every religion who believe in peace, but there are many, MANY more who use it as a tool to get followers to fulfill an agenda. This goes for Christianity as well. Hitler carried out the Holocaust in the name of Jesus/god, and these jihads are carried out in the name of Muhammad. Neither Jesus nor Muhammad would have stood for it.

[ericjosepi]

Being a born-again Christian, I'm against Islam.

Good to see those Christian values of love and acceptance are in full swing here.

[ariastar]

My god is a blue horse with a hot redhead who escorts you across waterfalls.
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/4206/siennabluehorse1we8.jpg

Superimpose my face there and this'll be awesome. :)

[ariastar]

Well, yeah. I'm just arguing that questioning the validity of the texts this guy's beliefs are based on in a thread that is (ostensibly) for learning about those beliefs defeats the purpose of the thread. The beliefs and issues related to them are the point, and they're real and worth talking about even if the texts the beliefs are based on haven't been or, due to their nature, just can't be proven to be factual.

And religious people really have to present their beliefs as being based on fact; to do otherwise would be hypocritical.

I believe there's an invisible pink unicorn!

By the same token, this is like saying Scientology is fine and dandy.

This kid isn't thinking for himself. He's blindly following what someone else tells him which is EXACTLY what religious zealots rely on to get people to do their murderous bidding. Make them believe it's wrong to think anything for themselves, call yourself a religious leader, send kid on his way to kill others because to do anything else (like, I don't know, maybe NOT kill?) is wrong.

[techliveadmin]

Hey. You said my religion was breeding hate Aria. It isnt. It's the people who claim to have knowledge and twist it around!

[njshadow]

Good to see those Christian values of love and acceptance are in full swing here.

Are you gonna start again with your out of the blue, no sense posts? That has nothing to do with love and acceptance. Christians and Muslims believe in a different God, contrary to what you may think. Why would I accept Islam if I am a Christian? And that was definitely a flame-bait post.......

[ariastar]

Being a born-again Christian, I'm against Islam. However, in his defense, because I've been cornered before, I believe that homosexuality is wrong as well. God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. :D

If homosexuality is wrong, then why did your god make people that way? Seems awfully stupid to create something that's wrong, then to condemn that something you created to death. Being gay is NOT a choice. For ages people have fought against being gay, but still are. It's not a choice. If your god would create gay people, then say that they are wrong, then your god is an evil asshole.

btw, he created Adam, Eve, Cain, Abel, and supposedly every other person in this world, which means he's created quite a few Adams and Steves.

[ariastar]

In the Name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

To address bani.

The Holy Prophet (SAW) did not live in caves for years. He was a trader, a man in business. He spent time in A cave to reflect. He was an honest man. A CHRISTIAN man told him he was a prophet after the Prophet (SAW) had an encounter with an angel. What you must understand is, he influenced many. For 500 years everything went well with Islam. 30-40 years back no one complained of Islam. Why all the hate now?

Yeah, for the first while of Christianity all went well too, until politics came into play and it was corrupted.

All the "hate" now is because there's an easy, wide-spread way to get word out about what happens in other parts of the world. A few decades ago there were few TV stations, so airtime was precious and not semi-wasted on what was happening on the other side of the world, but rather used to let people know what was going on where they lived. Printing newspapers and getting into to those newspapers was a long, arduous process. There was no internet.

What happened is that people NOW have an ability to get information that wasn't possible 30-40 years ago.

[ariastar]

Hey. You said my religion was breeding hate Aria. It isnt. It's the people who claim to have knowledge and twist it around!

Your religion is being used for hate. As I said, the original man was for love, but his name is being used in another way now.

[techliveadmin]

Ok fine Aria. You choose to think like that. I don't have to. God created everything on this earth and beyond it. God made man. Man made himself into what he is today. Greedy and self fish and IGNORANT.

[xibalba]

A guy down the street - the story I had heard is he was gay then he started going to church and became "straight" had a girlfriend and she broke up him he killed himself last week. I think it probably had to with being corrupted by religion saying how he felt was wrong and the break up just caused him to snap.

[patch]

You can't prove beliefs.

Oh, btw, I forgot to add. Yes, beliefs can be proven. I have an old glass milk bottle here, filled with three ice cubes and orange juice. I believe that I have it here, I believe that I'm drinking from it. Why? Because I can see it, feel it, taste it, smell it. I can even count the ice cubes. If I had a camera, I could take a picture for you. If you were near by, you could come see it, feel it, taste it, smell it and count the ice cubes. But, it is merely a belief.

[ariastar]

Are you gonna start again with your out of the blue, no sense posts? That has nothing to do with love and acceptance. Christians and Muslims believe in a different God, contrary to what you may think. Why would I accept Islam if I am a Christian? And that was definitely a flame-bait post.......

Then don't speak. If you don't want to have Christianity come into play here, then don't talk about it. You mentioned being against Islam. Shut it or be flame-bait. That was a pointless post you made, and was flame-bait. Start a Christian debate post if you want to talk about Christianity.

Same god, different ways of worshiping to same god. Different beliefs. But your god and the Muslim god are both one god who created the heavens, earth, etc..

[techliveadmin]

Aria, the media has influenced you so much. Go talk to a muslim, go in a mosque. Talk to Muslims and Christians. I talk to gay people and I even help them when they need it. So don't judge me or my religion.

I guess you believe everything you read and the videos you see too. Hmm i guess no one can edit videos.

[ariastar]

Ok fine Aria. You choose to think like that. I don't have to. God created everything on this earth and beyond it. God made man. Man made himself into what he is today. Greedy and self fish and IGNORANT.

Ignorance, my dear, is saying Islam is ALL about peace and ignoring that terrible things are happening in the name of Mohammad. The first step to changing it is to open your eyes, see what's happening, and then to try to find a way to fix it. Burying your head in the sand of denial won't change anything.

[ariastar]

A guy down the street - the story I had heard is he was gay then he started going to church and became "straight" had a girlfriend and she broke up him he killed himself last week. I think it probably had to with being corrupted by religion saying how he felt was wrong and the break up just caused him to snap.

Having it drilled into you that you are wrong and terrible better change it, then having to deny who you are, will do that.

[techliveadmin]

NJShadow. I support you 100%.

Most of my friends in school are born again christians!

[ariastar]

NJShadow. I support you 100%.

Most of my friends in school are born agaisnt christians!

Born AGAINST Christians?

[patch]

Ok fine Aria. You choose to think like that. I don't have to. God created everything on this earth and beyond it. God made man. Man made himself into what he is today. Greedy and self fish and IGNORANT.

Evidence of said creation please?


Oh, and what is a "self fish"?

A guy down the street - the story I had heard is he was gay then he started going to church and became "straight" had a girlfriend and she broke up him he killed himself last week. I think it probably had to with being corrupted by religion saying how he felt was wrong and the break up just caused him to snap.

I wouldn't be surpsied. I was raised in religion, and to this day I still feel faint feelings of guilt from time to time for doing things I was taught as being wrong. I haven't shaken it all off yet, and its been a number of years.

[techliveadmin]

No one kills in the name of Muhammad (SAW). He is merely a man. If I had to fight and defend my muslim brothers and sisters and my fellow innocent man I would in the Name of GOD, MOST GRACIOUS, MOST MERCIFUL.

NJSHADOW. Post all you want. You have my full support man! Don't let anyone scare you or trash your beliefs.

[njshadow]

Ok fine Aria. You choose to think like that. I don't have to. God created everything on this earth and beyond it. God made man. Man made himself into what he is today. Greedy and self fish and IGNORANT.

Crap man, being of a religion opposite of mine, I still respect you. It does indeed seem like a LOT of ignorance is floating around here. And yes, MAN made things into the way they are today. Aria, especially saying that time was "semi-wasted" on things around the world. How ignorant is that!? I'm just lettin ya know man, questioning your beliefs is actually good. The Bereans did it in the Bible. (Even though you believe in the Quran.) I have questioned my beliefs and thay have only made my faith stronger. Now, I have checked around and say that to question the Muslim faith is a sin and is wrong. I beg to differ. The only way you can re-assure your beliefs is to question them and do the research.

Crap, I said myself that I wasn't gonna get involved in this thread but oh well, here I go doing it! =)

[patch]

Then don't speak. If you don't want to have Christianity come into play here, then don't talk about it. You mentioned being against Islam. Shut it or be flame-bait. That was a pointless post you made, and was flame-bait. Start a Christian debate post if you want to talk about Christianity.

Same god, different ways of worshiping to same god. Different beliefs. But your god and the Muslim god are both one god who created the heavens, earth, etc..

I'm gonna have to second that. I'm on the edge of pulling Christianity into this thread.

[ariastar]

Aria, the media has influenced you so much. Go talk to a muslim, go in a mosque. Talk to Muslims and Christians. I talk to gay people and I even help them when they need it. So don't judge me or my religion.

I guess you believe everything you read and the videos you see too. Hmm i guess no one can edit videos.

I have known MANY Muslims in my life. I was raised Christian, attended a Christian school that encouraged us to think for ourselves as they believed our faith was only as strong as we could defend it. You may "talk" to and "help" gay people, but you think they are diseased and should die because your religion says so, even if you yourself couldn't do it. That makes me think you have doubts.

I find it humorous that you try to insult me for believing what I read and see in video when you yourself base your beliefs on a book supposedly written by an illiterate ages ago as if it couldn't be edited over time.

[ariastar]

No one kills in the name of Muhammad (SAW). He is merely a man. If I had to fight and defend my muslim brothers and sisters and my fellow innocent man I would in the Name of GOD, MOST GRACIOUS, MOST MERCIFUL.

NJSHADOW. Post all you want. You have my full support man! Don't let anyone scare you or trash your beliefs.

Holy wars, religious jihad. Nothing to do with religion?

[ariastar]

Crap man, being of a religion opposite of mine, I still respect you. It does indeed seem like a LOT of ignorance is floating around here. And yes, MAN made things into the way they are today. Aria, especially saying that time was "semi-wasted" on things around the world. How ignorant is that!? I'm just lettin ya know man, questioning your beliefs is actually good. The Bereans did it in the Bible. (Even though you believe in the Quran.) I have questioned my beliefs and thay have only made my faith stronger. Now, I have checked around and say that to question the Muslim faith is a sin and is wrong. I beg to differ. The only way you can re-assure your beliefs is to question them and do the research.

Crap, I said myself that I wasn't gonna get involved in this thread but oh well, here I go doing it! =)

When there were three TV stations each on air for 18 hours per day, closing every night at midnight, there were more important things for people to know about, such as that there is a presidential election coming up and here's what they need to know, not what's going on on the other side of the planet. There were things more vital to their lives. That's not ignorance. It's the way things were. Information was limited by not having an easier access to it at the time.

Now that we have countless TV stations and internet, it's not wasted.

[njshadow]

OKAY, cracks his spiritual fingers....LOL

There are ways of going about proving (somewhat) that there is a divine being in the universe. Namely, the dis-proving of evolution.

Newton's Second Law of Thermodynamics states that matter can neither be created nor destroyed. That disproves the "Big Bang Theory" right there.

Now, since God is not bound by physical limitations, it would be MORE logical to believe in creation, rather than evolution thus leading to "proof" that evolution is a total crock.

[techliveadmin]

NJShadow. Islam does allow us to question the faith. However it says not to make a mockery of the questions that you know will create fitna (trouble). Man is bent on creating trouble. Yes IGNORANCE is definitely high around here.

and soryy NJ, I meant born AGAIN christians. My best friends are born again christians. David Jonathon Coker and Stefan Daniel Giffard. Nothing is wrong with my friends being of another faith. We ALL stand together and defend each other!

[patch]

OKAY, cracks his spiritual fingers....LOL

There are ways of going about proving (somewhat) that there is a divine being in the universe. Namely, the dis-proving of evolution.

Newton's Second Law of Thermodynamics states that matter can neither be created nor destroyed. That disproves the "Big Bang Theory" right there.

Now, since God is not bound by physical limitations, it would be MORE logical to believe in creation, rather than evolution thus leading to "proof" that evolution is a total crock.

You break your argument right off the bat. You seem to think that if the theory evolution isn't right, the only other explination can be "God". If the big bang theory isn't right, the only other explination can be "God". The thing is, there could be ANY NUMBER of other explinations. What if its Fairies? Elves? Magical Flying Space Monsters that look some what like goats? Another explination that is tossed around, is that the universe always was, always has been, and that it has continually expanded and contracted and recreated its self with a 'big bang' over and over.

You're inserting your god into anything that can't be absolutly explained to the finest detail but not seeing that there could be more explinations than your god.

[techliveadmin]

NJ you mean the law of conservation of engery. Energy cannot be created or destroyed but transfered from one form to another.

Muhammad (SAW) illustrated how the human feotus develops in a womans utereus 1400 years ago and was illerate.

Muhammad (SAW) taught us the important to diet. 1400 years ago and is now being adopted by doctors. 1/3 water, 1/3 food and 1/3 air. Maybe following that won't get you any fatter people!

Muhammad (SAW) told us the universe was ever expanding and the world was round 1400 years ago.

Muhammad (SAW) did not fight wars even though all around him were being killed because they followed Islam. All those who tortured and killed Muslims at that time then reverted to Islam.

Muhammad (SAW) loved and taught love. Why hate him, hate muslims?

[techliveadmin]

There is a God. If man came from apes, why are there still apes? I see you believe Darwin, who himself didn't believe in his own writings.

How do I know there is a God? Because I pray to the ALMIGHTY. Becuase he said so? No. Because I want to.

Prove there is a God? I can.
How? Look around, you trying creating from just dirt, or curing diseases, oh you can't? I guess you aren;t God.

God, where to find Him? In you heart, well even though I see some of you have cold ones. Why ignore your'e being, you are proof of God's work!

[ryudo]

Has anyone thought of introducing FSM in the topic for an argument?

[patch]

NJ you mean the law of conservation of engery. Energy cannot be created or destroyed but transfered from one form to another.

Muhammad (SAW) illustrated how the human feotus develops in a womans utereus 1400 years ago and was illerate.

Muhammad (SAW) taught us the important to diet. 1400 years ago and is now being adopted by doctors. 1/3 water, 1/3 food and 1/3 air. Maybe following that won't get you any fatter people!

Muhammad (SAW) told us the universe was ever expanding and the world was flast 1400 years ago.

Muhammad (SAW) did not fight wars even though all around him were being killed because they followed Islam. All those who tortured and killed Muslims at that time then reverted to Islam.

Muhammad (SAW) loved and taught love. Why hate him, hate muslims?

Dude, you've made countless claims, and offered ZERO evidence, and haven't even bothered to reference anything from your holy book. I mean come on. I don't believe in your religion and I have posted passages from your holy book.

[masherscf]

OKAY, cracks his spiritual fingers....LOL
Newton's Second Law of Thermodynamics states that matter can neither be created nor destroyed. That disproves the "Big Bang Theory" right there.


You misquote Newton's second law of thermodynamics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_law_of_thermodynamics

Newton's second law deals with Entropy. This is a concept that is explicitly rejected many religions because it contradicts the steady-state universe that the bible describes.

Indeed, matter CAN be created and destroyed. This happens in every nuclear reactor.

If such irrefutable facts about the operation of the universe are misunderstood, how can you possibly believe that you have such a lock on much more subtle and mysterious issues.



Anyhow, the laws of the physics might be different at the beginning of the Universe, so extrapolating your present experience backward is invalid.

It doesn't matter if God, Allah or a Big-Blue Cow created the Universe. The influence of that creator cannot be proven scientifically.

Logic dictates that without explicit contradiction, the most likely explanation for a given event is the simplest one. Therefore, merely rejecting evolution as the origin of species does not prove anything.

[patch]

Has anyone thought of introducing FSM in the topic for an argument?

There is no argument for the FSM (Delicious be his name), and there is no need for one. The FSM (Delicious be his name) is FACT. Plain and simple.

[ericjosepi]

There is no argument for the FSM (Delicious be his name), and there is no need for one. The FSM (Delicious be his name) FACT. Plain and simple.

Oh Patch, thank you for restoring my faith in these forums!

[techliveadmin]

I will give evidence from my Holy Book. But I know Aria is going to say its nothing and worthless to her and bani is going to change up the words together with patch, which greatly insults my religion. But I will give examples because I am ABOVE that.

[njshadow]

NJShadow. Islam does allow us to question the faith. However it says not to make a mockery of the questions that you know will create fitna (trouble). Man is bent on creating trouble. Yes IGNORANCE is definitely high around here.

and soryy NJ, I meant born AGAIN christians. My best friends are born again christians. David Jonathon Coker and Stefan Daniel Giffard. Nothing is wrong with my friends being of another faith. We ALL stand together and defend each other!

Ok, remember, my posts have repsect implied.......

I believe that Christianity is and always was the TRUTH.

Here's what I believe.

CHRISTIANITY
l
ABRAHAM
l
Isaac Ishmael
l
Christianity Islam


I kinda forget (It's been awhile since my schooling) But, I believe Esau made it his mission to ensure that Jacob and his followers were annihilated.


Jacob = Christianity
Esau = Islam


The Jacob and Esau one I'm not 100% sure of though.

Now I understand that some of your friends are born-again Christians. However, that does not dismiss the fact that there are fundamental differences and that one will be right and one will be wrong. Now, I kinda hate putting someone up on the stand on this cause' until now, I was the only one who strongly believed in their religion around here and was the only one fighting on my side. BUT, isn't it true that in Islam, those who choose to not believe or shun it is to be put to death? Now remember, your talking to a Christian who is trying to show why Christ is the way while I am talking to a Muslim who is trying to show why Ala is the way.

Also, I can't GUARANTEE, that I'll be on to counter or reply to every post aimed at me cause' I have a life. But I do find this thread interesting and closing it would be a blunder in my opinion...............

[patch]

Oh Patch, thank you for restoring my faith in these forums!

Do not thank me. Thank the FSM (Delicious be his name).

[masherscf]

Do not thank me. Thank the FSM (Delicious be his name).

I'm sorry, we cannot be friends. I'm a Fettuccinist.

[njshadow]

You misquote Newton's second law of thermodynamics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_law_of_thermodynamics

Newton's second law deals with Entropy. This is a concept that is explicitly rejected many religions because it contradicts the steady-state universe that the bible describes.

Indeed, matter CAN be created and destroyed. This happens in every nuclear reactor.

If such irrefutable facts about the operation of the universe are misunderstood, how can you possibly believe that you have such a lock on much more subtle and mysterious issues.



Anyhow, the laws of the physics might be different at the beginning of the Universe, so extrapolating your present experience backward is invalid.

It doesn't matter if God, Allah or a Big-Blue Cow created the Universe. The influence of that creator cannot be proven scientifically.

Logic dictates that without explicit contradiction, the most likely explanation for a given event is the simplest one. Therefore, merely rejecting evolution as the origin of species does not prove anything.

Well, unless God is in it. It's impossible to have matter come from ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. That new matter described was coming with the help of nuclear reactors and really is a product rather than something from nothing don't you think?

[patch]

I'm sorry, we cannot be friends. I'm a Fettuccinist.

HEATHEN! My holy book demands that you must be slain!

[ryudo]

Do not thank me. Thank the FSM (Delicious be his name).

I just wanted to see things take a new turn for entertainment in the topic.:p


BTW I don't like spaghetti....despite being a pasta lover.

[patch]

Well, unless God is in it. It's impossible to have matter come from ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. That new matter described was coming with the help of nuclear reactors and really is a product rather than something from nothing don't you think?

Well, I guess you totally ignored my post, because the only other option you're posing is "god".

[patch]

I just wanted to see things take a new turn for entertainment in the topic.:p


BTW I don't like spaghetti....despite being a pasta lover.

Ramen? Would you care for a holy cup-of-noodles?

[njshadow]

@ TechLiveAdmin......Dude, I don't know your age, but a high % of the people on here are relatively young and immature so don't get your hopes waaaay up. They seem to do this when a serious thread emerges........They find it easier to dismiss eternity and not really think about it than to confront it and take a stand either way........

[ryudo]

Ramen? Would you care for a holy cup-of-noodles?
Yes sir!

[xibalba]

@ TechLiveAdmin......Dude, I don't know your age, but a high % of the people on here are relatively young and immature so don't get your hopes waaaay up. They seem to do this when a serious thread emerges........They find it easier to dismiss eternity and not really think about it than to confront it and take a stand either way........

Actually just about everyone here is older than you and way more mature and isn't closed minded and blinded by ignorance like you.

[njshadow]

Actually just about everyone here is older than you and way more mature and isn't closed minded and blinded by ignorance like you.

How is that ignorance? We've already discussed in past threads how it isn't. Also, so your claiming that most of the people here are older? If that's so then these people are INCREDIBLY immature and could only be serious if someone insulted their poster of Princess Peach.................

EDIT - Did I mention that that's lame? That's your little ace in the whole every time, ignorance. No, as I've said more times than donuts you've had this morning, I've seen what's out there and I feel sorry that so many people live thinking that they're good outweighs they're bad and that they're either gonna cease to exist or just float around for eternity. And you call me ignorant?

[patch]

@ TechLiveAdmin......Dude, I don't know your age, but a high % of the people on here are relatively young and immature so don't get your hopes waaaay up. They seem to do this when a serious thread emerges........They find it easier to dismiss eternity and not really think about it than to confront it and take a stand either way........

FUCK! Someone call 911! I can't breath! Someone stop me from laughing! My fingers are turning blue!

[patch]

How is that ignorance? We've already discussed in past threads how it isn't. Also, so your claiming that most of the people here are older? If that's so then these people are INCREDIBLY immature and could only be serious if someone insulted their poster of Princess Peach.................

Sod off man! Princess Peach is fucking awesome!

How is it ignorance? Blind acceptance is ignorance mate. Research, trying to find truth, giving a shit about your beliefs. That is a sign of maturity.

[masherscf]

Well, unless God is in it. It's impossible to have matter come from ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. That new matter described was coming with the help of nuclear reactors and really is a product rather than something from nothing don't you think?

Science does not predict how the Universe was created, only what happened as it was. The scientific model only reaches back to the first milliseconds. None of the matter or energy that you observe today had yet been formed. Yet, by that time, everything in the universe today was already here. Before that, the model breaks down.

The prevailing version of the Cosmos does not deny a god, it simply doesn't require one.

It could have been God. Since time itself began that the beginning, then usual cause and effect implication don't really apply.

If you want to impress me, you should point out that only a small percentage of the predicted matter and energy of the universe has been observed by humans. There is apparently a predominance of "dark matter" in the universe that evades scientific explanation. If you want to poke holes in the present model of universal construction...start there.

However, even if I do give credit to an almighty creator for the gift of the universe, what has she done for me lately?

I jest, as you know, I believe in the spirituality of human beings. I just wish you weren't threatened by science so much. I think that religions serve us best when they help build communities. I think they're at their worst when they are misused for moral policing, profit, politics in place of a secular government.

[njshadow]

Sod off man! Princess Peach is fucking awesome!

How is it ignorance? Blind acceptance is ignorance mate. Research, trying to find truth, giving a shit about your beliefs. That is a sign of maturity.

Yeah, and I've done my research. I don't in any way accept my faith blindly. How many times do I have to say this! Geeeeze!

[patch]

If you want to impress me, you should point out that only a small percentage of the predicted matter and energy of the universe has been observed by humans. There is apparently a predominance of "dark matter" in the universe that evades scientific explanation. If you want to poke holes in the present model of universal construction...start there.

Last I heard of dark matter someone had made a proof showing it didn't exist. Admittedly I never really keep up on stuff like that, but, was the proof wrong? Or?

Yeah, and I've done my research. I don't in any way accept my faith blindly. How many times do I have to say this! Geeeeze!

What was your research? Your Bible? Thats not research. Did you actually physically go and try to find history of the supposed authors? Those names of your books? Mark, Luke, John, Peter, etc. Those were placed there by the Catholic church. They also ripped out a bunch of books. (the collection now known as the apocrypha) These things, that are clearly known and able to be shown, actually work against your book, and with that, your religion, because it shows that it has clearly been changed by people, which makes your stance upon the book faulty.

[ryudo]

I am usually open to all religious POV's and non religious POV's,do I have certain beliefs sure but I never set my beliefs in stone as if it's the only answer so I search all possibilities and sometimes I alter my beliefs by something new I discovered...personally I never have a final judgment because I like to learn constantly from all aspects.

I like to be open minded and setting in stone that only belief X or Y is the only way is closed minded to me.

Maybe this sounds weird or obvious to some I don't know but I do feel the human race is still in a pre teen state as it's a very confused race of creatures whom many think they have it all figured out with gods and religions and hell even sciences (I admit to usually lend more to the science side ..not always but usually)when they surely show signs they don't because when we think we have it all figured out we get slammed in the face with something that goes against it so we spin things around to make the square fit in the round hole..this race IMO has a long road ahead in it's development.

I am probably just either rambling or stating an obvious and maybe generalizing too much..but for me to go into detail to elaborate my fingers can't keep up with how I would be able to better put it vocally which I often do about subjects like this or others more deep in thought.

I do have a question...who has seen that video that talks about how we are all just a bunch of monkeys? it was meant for comedy but at the same time seems to hold much possible truth in it:p

[tokenuser]

Hey. You said my religion was breeding hate Aria. It isnt. It's the people who claim to have knowledge and twist it around!Quoted for truth. The messengers are the ones corrupting the message ... and mostly for political and personal gains.

I curse like a sailor. I drink alcohol. I eat pork. I love caffeinated softdrink. I had premaital sex - though I guess I get some credit for it being with a woman, and didn't involve the pooper. Despite all those "sins of the body", I am a fairly spiritual person - but not in a religious sense.

Equal rights for all people? Yep, unless those rights are revoked as punishment for crimes against society.
Do unto others (the "eye for an eye" clause)? Yep. A concept rooted in the religious past were clerics were the judges, but criminal acts need to have a consequence. Having said that, why do people forget that its do unto others as you would have them do unto you. I grew up in a sporting nation - and sportmanship and fairplay is practiced as much on the field as it is in life and in the boardroom. You want to be treated fairly? You should treat others fairly.

The Bible and Koran aren't special books. They are common sense. They tell some nice parable on lessons in life, but they are works of ficiton. They are not the instruciton manual for life that that once were treated as.

Humanity has evolved, and yet we as a society hold these erroneously translated works of fiction as our moral compass and justification for our actions. It is very sad that people are unable to form rational arguments without invoking the name of their Gods.

I don't feel a personal need for organised religion. Many people do. I wish them no ill will, provided that they treat their personal spirituallity as I treat mine - as a private matter to guide their daily life, and not as a hypocritical excuse.

[ariastar]

Evidence of said creation please?

Apparently the fact that there's a world.

I wouldn't be surpsied. I was raised in religion, and to this day I still feel faint feelings of guilt from time to time for doing things I was taught as being wrong. I haven't shaken it all off yet, and its been a number of years.

Ditto.

[njshadow]

Science does not predict how the Universe was created, only what happened as it was. The scientific model only reaches back to the first milliseconds. None of the matter or energy that you observe today had yet been formed. Yet, by that time, everything in the universe today was already here. Before that, the model breaks down.

I could have been God. Since time itself began that the beginning, then usually cause and effect implication don't really apply.

If you want to impress me, you should point out that only a small percentage of the predicted matter and energy of the universe has been observed by humans. There is apparently a predominance of "dark matter" in the universe that evades scientific explanation. If you want to poke holes in the present model of universal construction...start there.

However, even if I do give credit to an almighty creator for the gift of the universe, what has she done for me lately?

I jest, as you know, I believe in the spirituality of human beings. I just wish you weren't threatened by science so much. I think that religions serve us best when they help build communities. I think they're at their worst when they are misused for moral policing, profit, politics in place of a secular government.

No, actually I'm all lfor Science. And I realize that it's man's observation of the physical universe so it can only measure thaty which is physical and not spiritual. And when you ask what God has done for you lately, I reply with this.

All are sinners. A person who has not confessed his sins and has not received Christ as their Saviour has communication with God cut-off as a result of that sin. However, once a person acknowledges them self as a sinner and receives Christ as their Saviour that line of communication is wide open. Now God (even though he knows all) will listen to your payers and answer them. Now if it's not enough that he saved you, it's that he gave man a second chance after sin was introduced and we were damned to go to Hell. He gave us the ability to be redeemed through Christ. Christ took the punishment on the cross for our sins. God won't do anything for you if you haven't even accepted Him. Why should he? Do we really deserve the love of an infinite God? God finds sin to be an abomination. Sin cannot coexist with God and/or Heaven. That is why we need to repent of our sins.

Like I said, once your saved you are free to talk to God and he can bless you. You really see life through a different lens once this happens.

Also, to all those who say that this is ignorance, take this into account. Suppose there was someone who has seen God and knows for a FACT that he exists. Wouldn't they see other religions as blasphemy? Would they find a way to tell everyone the good news (Gospel)? I liked how someone said it in a past post, we see it as truth because honestly it would be hypocrisy if we didn't. I believe 100% that Jesus Christ is Lord and Saviour. And don't think for a moment that I am blinded by ignorance, I've seen what's out there. I've questioned my faith and it has only made me a stronger Christian.

[ariastar]

OKAY, cracks his spiritual fingers....LOL

There are ways of going about proving (somewhat) that there is a divine being in the universe. Namely, the dis-proving of evolution.

Newton's Second Law of Thermodynamics states that matter can neither be created nor destroyed. That disproves the "Big Bang Theory" right there.

Now, since God is not bound by physical limitations, it would be MORE logical to believe in creation, rather than evolution thus leading to "proof" that evolution is a total crock.

Part of why I stopped believing in god was I found it to be a cop-out that if something isn't easily explained, then it MUST be god's doing. We don't know for fact how this world came to be. But where did god come from?

[ariastar]

NJ you mean the law of conservation of engery. Energy cannot be created or destroyed but transfered from one form to another.

Muhammad (SAW) illustrated how the human feotus develops in a womans utereus 1400 years ago and was illerate.

Muhammad (SAW) taught us the important to diet. 1400 years ago and is now being adopted by doctors. 1/3 water, 1/3 food and 1/3 air. Maybe following that won't get you any fatter people!

Muhammad (SAW) told us the universe was ever expanding and the world was flast 1400 years ago.

Muhammad (SAW) did not fight wars even though all around him were being killed because they followed Islam. All those who tortured and killed Muslims at that time then reverted to Islam.

Muhammad (SAW) loved and taught love. Why hate him, hate muslims?

Yeah, because you have to be able to READ to draw a picture.

I've NEVER heard this 1/3 food, 1/3 water, 1/3 air thing. How do you eat air?

Uh, he said the world is flat? It's round.

We don't hate Mohammad the MAN, we hate what the religion has become, and that you still defend it as being peaceful. Open your eyes for a moment and you'd see that.

[techliveadmin]

In the Name of ALLAH (SWT), Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

NJ to answer you I say. No, not really. People who shun us or abuse us, we leave them alone. If they HARM us we retalliate.

To Aria I say this, you have treated me as nothing and so I am responding to you in the same way you have responded to me.

You say you can't have kids, you have had all these problems and surgery and there is no God. Well then ask your creator why you have all these problems. So I suppose your mom and dad are God, thats AWESOME! Wait you don't believe in God...ok..

SO you finally have a kid, kid is girl. Cool. She likes other girls. Not a prob. She likes little girls, she loves little girls now. So she gets tired of playing with little girls and likes horses. They have big packages. Ooo she loves horses. I guess horses are her thing. She wants to marry a horse. You are her God. YAy! yeh u r, u created her!. Ok. She has sex with 7 guys, realises she is pregnant and has Aids. Blame God, the one thing you dont believe in. Ok, everyone ridicules the child becuase it has aids.

Blame God, your daughter blames u, after all u did create her. Ok, fine. No God, who does she blame. It was free love right?

I never wish this upon you ARIA or anyone at all. But to me this is the stance you have taken. Why can't you ask GOD for help? Right to you God isnt real....wow wondered who created you? Your mom and dad? O no, your dads sperm and moms egg. Well then asked them....?

[ariastar]

There is a God. If man came from apes, why are there still apes? I see you believe Darwin, who himself didn't believe in his own writings.

How do I know there is a God? Because I pray to the ALMIGHTY. Becuase he said so? No. Because I want to.

Prove there is a God? I can.
How? Look around, you trying creating from just dirt, or curing diseases, oh you can't? I guess you aren;t God.

God, where to find Him? In you heart, well even though I see some of you have cold ones. Why ignore your'e being, you are proof of God's work!

Genetic mutations have created different hair and eye colors. I don't know that I believe we came from apes or not, but I sure as hell don't believe a god creates us. If no one created god and he's just always been, why can't it be possible that WE have always existed?

God doesn't cure diseases. Scientists in labs discover the cures. All god has given us, if he were real, is the diseases. If he didn't want us sick, why make us sick to begin with and tell us we're on our own to figure it out?

[njshadow]

What was your research? Your Bible? Thats not research. Did you actually physically go and try to find history of the supposed authors? Those names of your books? Mark, Luke, John, Peter, etc. Those were placed there by the Catholic church. They also ripped out a bunch of books. (the collection now known as the apocrypha) These things, that are clearly known and able to be shown, actually work against your book, and with that, your religion, because it shows that it has clearly been changed by people, which makes your stance upon the book faulty.

Actually, the apocrypha was added by the Catholics. It was ripped out because it was not divinely inspired...... It was wrong and was a direct contradiction to the Bible. The Catholic Church didn't place those names in there.... Also, most of the research I've seen and have done is done with with oldest possible versions of the Bible known to exist. Also, when I say research I mean that I have seen what the other religions teach and I find it to be completely wrong.....

[patch]

Do unto others (the "eye for an eye" clause)? Yep. A concept rooted in the religious past were clerics were the judges, but criminal acts need to have a consequence. Having said that, why do people forget that its do unto others as you would have them do unto you. I grew up in a sporting nation - and sportmanship and fairplay is practiced as much on the field as it is in life and in the boardroom. You want to be treated fairly? You should treat others fairly.

"The Golden Rule (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethic_of_reciprocity)" when followed, is awesome. It's actually been around longer than most people think. It isn't originaly from the bible.

Part of why I stopped believing in god was I found it to be a cop-out that if something isn't easily explained, then it MUST be god's doing. We don't know for fact how this world came to be. But where did god come from?

Explaining a mystery with a mystery. Its not logically sound. It can never stand up. Honestly, if someones going to put something in place for what they can't answer, I rather it be something cool. What about "The Force" instead? Or "Nude Amazonian Goddesses"?

[techliveadmin]

I meant he said the world was round. My error on that one!

[ariastar]

I'm sorry, we cannot be friends. I'm a Fettuccinist.

BLASPHEMY!!

[ariastar]

Well, unless God is in it. It's impossible to have matter come from ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. That new matter described was coming with the help of nuclear reactors and really is a product rather than something from nothing don't you think?

And where did god come from? WHAT did he come from?

[masherscf]

Like I said, once your saved you are free to talk to God and he can bless you. You really see life through a different lens once this happens.


This is where we disagree. I don't believe everyone needs to be saved. I think if you like a good life and follow the teachings of Christ, he'll admit you into heaven even if you have no clue who he is.

I think this "saving" is just a corruption of the faith. It's a way to control people through access to enlightenment. Major Christian faiths have done this years though access to sacraments and the threat of excommunication.

It's also a way of setting yourself above other humans for no good reason. You undoubtedly think yourself superior to anyone that hasn't been saved, regardless of the righteousness of their position.

[ariastar]

@ TechLiveAdmin......Dude, I don't know your age, but a high % of the people on here are relatively young and immature so don't get your hopes waaaay up. They seem to do this when a serious thread emerges........They find it easier to dismiss eternity and not really think about it than to confront it and take a stand either way........

We're dismissing what he has to say due to his refusal to quote scripture to back himself up. If a non-Muslim person here can quote the Quran to makes points, why is the Muslim one refusing to do the same?

[ryudo]

Some religions describe that god once was what we are now.

[ariastar]

FUCK! Someone call 911! I can't breath! Someone stop me from laughing! My fingers are turning blue!

[insert bad 9-11/Muslim joke here]

[Don't ban me, Bro!]

[ariastar]

How is that ignorance? We've already discussed in past threads how it isn't. Also, so your claiming that most of the people here are older? If that's so then these people are INCREDIBLY immature and could only be serious if someone insulted their poster of Princess Peach.................

EDIT - Did I mention that that's lame? That's your little ace in the whole every time, ignorance. No, as I've said more times than donuts you've had this morning, I've seen what's out there and I feel sorry that so many people live thinking that they're good outweighs they're bad and that they're either gonna cease to exist or just float around for eternity. And you call me ignorant?

Ignorance is blindly following what you're told and having a resusal to acknowledge certain facts, twisting them to your purposes, ignoring what you can't.

[njshadow]

Wow, I gotta give TechLive credit with his arguments. They're spot on and I find it hard for others to argue with it. Unless of course you believe in a totally different religion but still, VERY good argument/points man.

[patch]

Actually, the apocrypha was added by the Catholics. It was ripped out because it was not divinely inspired...... It was wrong and was a direct contradiction to the Bible. The Catholic Church didn't place those names in there.... Also, most of the research I've seen and have done is done with with oldest possible versions of the Bible known to exist. Also, when I say research I mean that I have seen what the other religions teach and I find it to be completely wrong.....

Okay, I'm not going to argue if it was added or removed, because arguing with kids never gets anywhere.

But either way, that in its self shows it faulty, things were added, and removed. This lends to it not being divine. Which cripples it.

Nor am I going to argue the names, because your first argument proves my point.

Look at the different bibles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Books_of_the_Bible). The simple fact that there are different kinds, of the same basic book, lends to its fault.

Proving other religions wrong doesn't make yours right. Yours could be completly wrong as well, but obviously you don't even humor that thought because you clearly show you are dogmatic.

[ariastar]

I will give evidence from my Holy Book. But I know Aria is going to say its nothing and worthless to her and bani is going to change up the words together with patch, which greatly insults my religion. But I will give examples because I am ABOVE that.

Still waiting for your references.

[ariastar]

Yeah, and I've done my research. I don't in any way accept my faith blindly. How many times do I have to say this! Geeeeze!

Research the Niccean creed.

[njshadow]

Ignorance is blindly following what you're told and having a resusal to acknowledge certain facts, twisting them to your purposes, ignoring what you can't.

Once again I give TechLive credit, cause' if we claim that something is false you pretty much ALWAYS claim we're twisting it around. No, I don't blindly follow what I'm told. I question my beliefs and put them up against what the Bible says. Pastors are human, they can make mistakes which is why it's crucial to question those in authority. The Bereans did it in the Bible. I don't blindly believe..........

[ryudo]

When I hear people say the words "saved" it sounds like pretentious BS as if you're above others.

[ariastar]

All are sinners. A person who has not confessed his sins and has not received Christ as their Saviour has communication with God cut-off as a result of that sin. However, once a person acknowledges them self as a sinner and receives Christ as their Saviour that line of communication is wide open. Now God (even though he knows all) will listen to your payers and answer them. Now if it's not enough that he saved you, it's that he gave man a second chance after sin was introduced and we were damned to go to Hell. He gave us the ability to be redeemed through Christ. Christ took the punishment on the cross for our sins. God won't do anything for you if you haven't even accepted Him. Why should he? Do we really deserve the love of an infinite God? God finds sin to be an abomination. Sin cannot coexist with God and/or Heaven. That is why we need to repent of our sins.

Like I said, once your saved you are free to talk to God and he can bless you. You really see life through a different lens once this happens.

So all those in poor places or in tribes without bibles are doomed to hell. Yay god!

Also, to all those who say that this is ignorance, take this into account. Suppose there was someone who has seen God and knows for a FACT that he exists. Wouldn't they see other religions as blasphemy? Would they find a way to tell everyone the good news (Gospel)? I liked how someone said it in a past post, we see it as truth because honestly it would be hypocrisy if we didn't. I believe 100% that Jesus Christ is Lord and Saviour. And don't think for a moment that I am blinded by ignorance, I've seen what's out there. I've questioned my faith and it has only made me a stronger Christian.

You have personally seen god? Know what I love about you? You say to look outside, yet give NO credit to the PEOPLE who used their own hands to build shit. God made it all, no people involved.

[ericjosepi]

When I hear people say the words "saved" it sounds like pretentious BS as if you're above others.

But didn't you know... The only ones that Jesus save are always those that lose their way.

[njshadow]

Research the Niccean creed.

Yeah, the creed is wrong. Baptism doesn't cleanse you from sin. Only remission of those sins and Christ does. Maybe you should have read it and researched it before posting it.

[patch]

To Aria I say this, you have treated me as nothing and so I am responding to you in the same way you have responded to me.

No, she has not treated you as nothing. You don't talk to nothing (well maybe you do.), she isn't aruging points to nothing. You seem to think of your self as nothing tho by saying that.


By the way, you said you were post passages from your holy book. You still haven't. You have lied to me by not keeping your word. You have treated me with great disrespect by doing so.

[techliveadmin]

In the Name of Allah (SWT), Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

Thnks NJ. Your arguments hold well as well.

To Aria, why is it you blame all the worlds problems on God, who you believe doesn't exist?

One Quran, Hundreds of Thousands of Messengers, ONE MESSAGE.

[patch]

But didn't you know... The only ones that Jesus save are always those that lose their way.

Jesus saves... And only takes half damage!

Yeah, the creed is wrong. Baptism doesn't cleanse you from sin. Only remission of those sins and Christ does. Maybe you should have read it and researched it before posting it.

OHMIGAD! Your arugment is so amazing! You have helped me see the light! Praise JEBUS! If you think it is wrong, that is a belief. You make a claim, you have the burden of proof. So prove it.

[ariastar]

To Aria I say this, you have treated me as nothing and so I am responding to you in the same way you have responded to me.

You wanted to be challenged, I challenged you. You have no replies for what I'm asking. You're proving MY point.

You say you can't have kids, you have had all these problems and surgery and there is no God. Well then ask your creator why you have all these problems. So I suppose your mom and dad are God, thats AWESOME! Wait you don't believe in God...ok..

Or you can ask your creator why those who murder people tend to live pretty well. I was a kid when I got sick. What could a child do to deserve that? If you think a child could possibly have done something so terrible, I hope you can not have kids. I really do.

SO you finally have a kid, kid is girl. Cool. She likes other girls. Not a prob. She likes little girls, she loves little girls now. So she gets tired of playing with little girls and likes horses. They have big packages. Ooo she loves horses. I guess horses are her thing. She wants to marry a horse. You are her God. YAy! yeh u r, u created her!. Ok. She has sex with 7 guys, realises she is pregnant and has Aids. Blame God, the one thing you dont believe in. Ok, everyone ridicules the child becuase it has aids.

Blame God, your daughter blames u, after all u did create her. Ok, fine. No God, who does she blame. It was free love right?

That makes no sense whatsoever.

I never wish this upon you ARIA or anyone at all. But to me this is the stance you have taken. Why can't you ask GOD for help? Right to you God isnt real....wow wondered who created you? Your mom and dad? O no, your dads sperm and moms egg. Well then asked them....?

When I was a Christian, I begged god for help. All I got was sicker. I began to shun food even because I felt sinful for wanting food that, unless freely given to me, wasn't mine to want. I begged and begged for help, screamed and cried and offered my life to god, and meant it with every fiber of my being. What did it get me? Nothing. I got sicker. Oddly enough, the year I realized god isn't real is the same year my medical problems ended.

By the way, my dad's dead.

[techliveadmin]

Very funny patch, I am gathering them as we speak.

[patch]

In the Name of Allah (SWT), Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

Thnks NJ. Your arguments hold well as well.

To Aria, why is it you blame all the worlds problems on God, who you believe doesn't exist?

One Quran, Hundreds of Thousands of Messengers, ONE MESSAGE.

She doesn't blame "all the worlds problems on God". She is showing how, if your god existed, all these problems would be "his" fault.

[ariastar]

This is where we disagree. I don't believe everyone needs to be saved. I think if you like a good life and follow the teachings of Christ, he'll admit you into heaven even if you have no clue who he is.

I think this "saving" is just a corruption of the faith. It's a way to control people through access to enlightenment. Major Christian faiths have done this years though access to sacraments and the threat of excommunication.

It's also a way of setting yourself above other humans for no good reason. You undoubtedly think yourself superior to anyone that hasn't been saved, regardless of the righteousness of their position.

God damn, I hate how people do this. Claiming to be a person of a certain faith to those of that faith seems to make them better people than those who don't follow, no matter what.

[ariastar]

Wow, I gotta give TechLive credit with his arguments. They're spot on and I find it hard for others to argue with it. Unless of course you believe in a totally different religion but still, VERY good argument/points man.

He jumps around and dodges questions and has to be asked several times rather than answering them directly.

[ariastar]

Okay, I'm not going to argue if it was added or removed, because arguing with kids never gets anywhere.

But either way, that in its self shows it faulty, things were added, and removed. This lends to it not being divine. Which cripples it.

Nor am I going to argue the names, because your first argument proves my point.

Look at the different bibles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Books_of_the_Bible). The simple fact that there are different kinds, of the same basic book, lends to its fault.

Proving other religions wrong doesn't make yours right. Yours could be completly wrong as well, but obviously you don't even humor that thought because you clearly show you are dogmatic.

Apparently the fact that humans are KNOWN to be involved in deciding what goes into the bible, what comes out, how it's worded and translated, means nothing. Apparently it's all divinely perfect right now. You're an idiot if you think otherwise. ;)

[ariastar]

Once again I give TechLive credit, cause' if we claim that something is false you pretty much ALWAYS claim we're twisting it around. No, I don't blindly follow what I'm told. I question my beliefs and put them up against what the Bible says. Pastors are human, they can make mistakes which is why it's crucial to question those in authority. The Bereans did it in the Bible. I don't blindly believe..........

You don't really question anything. You try to explain away the loopholes in your beliefs.

[ryudo]

But didn't you know... The only ones that Jesus save are always those that lose their way.

Quick someone save my brother and his wife as they are the best family people I ever met with three kids in a very loving home He works at CBS in LA as a photographer (just google monty brinton in google images) and his wife who manages a large Pharmacy in a large hospital in LA and live nicley in a house in Granda hills and even built an apartment on the side of the house for my mom to live in so she can be close to grandkids in her retirement.

Here is the catch..he isn't anything in regards to religion and she is athiest (even though her family is jewish) they stay close to their family help others and very happy people.

But I guess they still need to be "saved" :p

[techliveadmin]

To Aria I say this.

I wish you have children.

In Islam it is that any child who dies, dies of innocence and a papth to heaven is provided for them.

For children they are of no fault for what happens to them, if they commit wrong, there parents take fault. Why? They should have taught them better.

The Quran says this : Chapter 002 - Al Baqarah Verse 26
"Lo! Allah disdaineth not to coin the similitude even of a gnat. Those who believe know that it is the truth from their Lord; but those who disbelieve say : What doth Allah wish (to teach) by such a similitude? He misleadeth many thereby, and he guided many thereby, and he misleadeth thereby only miscreants"

[ariastar]

Yeah, the creed is wrong. Baptism doesn't cleanse you from sin. Only remission of those sins and Christ does. Maybe you should have read it and researched it before posting it.

So you don't think it's possible that humans edited the bible along the way for political purposes, yet believe a man rose from the dead and walked on water. Uh-huh.

btw, the Nicene Creed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicene_creed) isn't about Baptism.

[patch]

Quick someone save my brother and his wife as they are the best family people I ever met with three kids in a very loving home He works at CBS in LA as a photographer (just google monty brinton in google images) and his wife who manages a large Pharmacy in a large hospital in LA and live nicley in a house in Granda hills and even built an apartment on the side of the house for my mom to live in so she can be close to grandkids in her retirement.

Here is the catch..he isn't anything in regards to religion and she is athiest (even though her family is jewish) they stay close to their family help others and very happy people.

But I guess they still need to be "saved" :p

Go buy them a flat of ramen my friend.

You simply saying "athiest" makes me want to go into my usual rant of explaining its meaning. I won't tho. :p

[ariastar]

To Aria, why is it you blame all the worlds problems on God, who you believe doesn't exist?

There is no god, and the world's problems aren't his fault. If he DID, they WOULD be his fault if he controls all. You, on the other hand, think this world's suffering is proof of god and his punishment.

[ericjosepi]

Apparently the fact that humans are KNOWN to be involved in deciding what goes into the bible, what comes out, how it's worded and translated, means nothing. Apparently it's all divinely perfect right now. You're an idiot if you think otherwise. ;)

Or at least the hour and a half when they picked and chose which parts were better than others in reflecting the "right" way of interpreting that Jesus guy...

[njshadow]

JOHMIGAD! Your arugment is so amazing! You have helped me see the light! Praise JEBUS! If you think it is wrong, that is a belief. You make a claim, you have the burden of proof. So prove it.

Uh, dude, refer to my sig. Nowhere in the bible does it say you gain salvation through baptism. There. Happy? The creed says that baptism gets you to Heaven when it DOES NOT.

[ariastar]

Quick someone save my brother and his wife as they are the best family people I ever met with three kids in a very loving home He works at CBS in LA as a photographer (just google monty brinton in google images) and his wife who manages a large Pharmacy in a large hospital in LA and live nicley in a house in Granda hills and even built an apartment on the side of the house for my mom to live in so she can be close to grandkids in her retirement.

Here is the catch..he isn't anything in regards to religion and she is athiest (even though her family is jewish) they stay close to their family help others and very happy people.

But I guess they still need to be "saved" :p

They're doomed to hellfire and damnation!!

[patch]

There is no god

That is an ignorant statement Aria. You cannot prove the claim of there not being a god(s). Don't be a nostic. Its retarted.

[ariastar]

In Islam it is that any child who dies, dies of innocence and a papth to heaven is provided for them.

For children they are of no fault for what happens to them, if they commit wrong, there parents take fault. Why? They should have taught them better.

The Quran says this : Chapter 002 - Al Baqarah Verse 26
"Lo! Allah disdaineth not to coin the similitude even of a gnat. Those who believe know that it is the truth from their Lord; but those who disbelieve say : What doth Allah wish (to teach) by such a similitude? He misleadeth many thereby, and he guided many thereby, and he misleadeth thereby only miscreants"

The child still pays. They suffer.

Talk about a passage that's open to many interpretations.

[techliveadmin]

In the name of ALLAH (SWT), Most Gracious, Most Merciful:

Chapter 002 Al Baqarah Verse 97

"And thou wilt find them greeediest of mankind for life and (greedier) than the idolaters. (Each) one of them would like to live a thousand years. And to live (one thousand years) would by no means remove him from the doom. Allah is a seer of what they do!"

[ariastar]

Go buy them a flat of ramen my friend.

You simply saying "athiest" makes me want to go into my usual rant of explaining its meaning. I won't tho. :p

RAmen, Bro!

[ryudo]

Go buy them a flat of ramen my friend.

You simply saying "athiest" makes me want to go into my usual rant of explaining its meaning. I won't tho. :p

I don't have a negative view on Atheists nor do I have a negative view on Christians or any other religious belief in a god.

[techliveadmin]

In the name of ALLAH (SWT), Most Gracious, Most Merciful:

Chapter 002 Al Baqarah Verse 97

"And thou wilt find them greeediest of mankind for life and (greedier) than the idolaters. (Each) one of them would like to live a thousand years. And to live (one thousand years) would by no means remove him from the doom. Allah is a seer of what they do"

[ariastar]

That is an ignorant statement Aria. You cannot prove the claim of there not being a god. Don't be a nostic. Its retarted.

There is no god because there is FSM instead. :D And to say otherwise is totally retarded.

[ariastar]

I don't have a negative view on Atheists nor do I have a negative view on Christians or any other religious belief in a god.

I, on the other hand, hold a negative view of those who REFUSE to acknowledge the hand humans play in religion and how it is today, and claim that their religion is the one, right religion and all others are doomed. I hole a negative view of those who blindly follow and think of themselves as above those who think for themselves.

[ariastar]

In the name of ALLAH (SWT), Most Gracious, Most Merciful:

Chapter 002 Al Baqarah Verse 97

"And thou wilt find them greeediest of mankind for life and (greedier) than the idolaters. (Each) one of them would like to live a thousand years. And to live (one thousand years) would by no means remove him from the doom. Allah is a seer of what they do"

Who is the greediest? Who would like to live 1,000 years?

[ariastar]

And to think, once upon a time this was a tech forum.

[njshadow]

When I was a Christian

If you didn't receive salvation through Christ and didn't repent of you sins you were never a Christian to begin with. Actually, Christian means "Christ-Like" so even those who are saved cannot always be "Christian". If you are a saved person who has backslid and is cheating on your wife, you are not a Christian but you don't lose your salvation for it.

[njshadow]

And to think, once upon a time this was a tech forum.

This is the GENERAL DISCUSSION area. Check out another thread if you don't like it.

[techliveadmin]

Referring to :

The Quran says this : Chapter 002 - Al Baqarah Verse 26
"Lo! Allah disdaineth not to coin the similitude even of a gnat. Those who believe know that it is the truth from their Lord; but those who disbelieve say : What doth Allah wish (to teach) by such a similitude? He misleadeth many thereby, and he guided many thereby, and he misleadeth thereby only miscreants"

I say. That those who believe. Believe.

Those who disbelieve say what does God want to teach by creating man like himself are misleaded on by those who want to cause trouble as we were not created in his likeness.

[patch]

I don't have a negative view on Atheists nor do I have a negative view on Christians or any other religious belief in a god.

Okay, I'm sorry, but by that statement I must assume you view Atheism as something its not. So, here I go.

Atheism: One who does not believe in a god or gods. That does not mean you believe in no god. That just means you don't believe in a god or gods. Denial - Non-belief - Belief. There are three steps there, Atheism is the middle one.

And while I'm at it, because so many people tie this in with it.

Agnostisism: One who knows they cannont prove or disprove a god or gods.

Atheism = Lack of belief in a god or gods.
Agnostitism = Acceptance of the lack of knowlage to prove or disprove a god or gods.


*Deep breath*. Okay, sorry. I just had to.

[ariastar]

If you didn't receive salvation through Christ and didn't repent of you sins you were never a Christian to begin with. Actually, Christian means "Christ-Like" so even those who are saved cannot always be "Christian". If you are a saved person who has backslid and is cheating on your wife, you are not a Christian but you don't lose your salvation for it.

I was, and I did.

To be like Christ and love others doesn't mean you have to accept the bible. Some of the most Christ-like people I have ever known were never Christian.

[ericjosepi]

And to think, once upon a time this was a tech forum.

Actually it used to be fun with random bullshit like Blackfox and the orgy thread to make us laugh. No we've devolved to fighting with techlive and New Jesus boy over religion. Actually, I left last year around the time Jesus boy started calling all of us out on our non-Christian ways.

[ryudo]

I, on the other hand, hold a negative view of those who REFUSE to acknowledge the hand humans play in religion and how it is today, and claim that their religion is the one, right religion and all others are doomed. I hole a negative view of those who blindly follow and think of themselves as above those who think for themselves.

Yeah I just said the belief as for the people who push it on others and don't let live I do have an issue with.
There is also plenty of religious people who don't push their beliefs on others.

[patch]

There is no god because there is FSM instead. :D And to say otherwise is totally retarded.

The FSM (Delicious be his name) is a god tho. So there is a god!

Seriously tho. Nostisim is exactly the stance that NJShadow and techliveadmin take, and its stupid.

[patch]

Actually it used to be fun with random bullshit like Blackfox and the orgy thread to make us laugh. No we've devolved to fighting with techlive and New Jesus boy over religion. Actually, I left last year around the time Jesus boy started calling all of us out on our non-Christian ways.

Thats because he's a witch. BURN HIM! BURN HIM AFTER WE SEE IF HE FLOATS LIKE A DUCK!

Wait, there was an orgy thread...

[phatlip12]

Aria, the media has influenced you so much. Go talk to a muslim, go in a mosque. Talk to Muslims and Christians. I talk to gay people and I even help them when they need it. So don't judge me or my religion.

I guess you believe everything you read and the videos you see too. Hmm i guess no one can edit videos.


The media? How is her logic twisted by the media when you're the one saying homosexuality is a disease? It's a disease huh? Ok, will you please post scientific evidence proving its a disease?

[ryudo]

Okay, I'm sorry, but by that statement I must assume you view Atheism as something its not. So, here I go.

Atheism: One who does not believe in a god or gods. That does not mean you believe in no god. That just means you don't believe in a god or gods. Denial - Non-belief - Belief. There are three steps there, Atheism is the middle one.

And while I'm at it, because so many people tie this in with it.

Agnostisism: One who knows they cannont prove or disprove a god or gods.

Atheism = Lack of belief in a god or gods.
Agnostitism = Acceptance of the lack of knowlage to prove or disprove a god or gods.


*Deep breath*. Okay, sorry. I just had to.

Thanks for telling me what I already knew.;)

[njshadow]

Actually it used to be fun with random bullshit like Blackfox and the orgy thread to make us laugh. No we've devolved to fighting with techlive and New Jesus boy over religion. Actually, I left last year around the time Jesus boy started calling all of us out on our non-Christian ways.

What? Feelin' guilty or somethin'? Also, I recall that that was because you were Aria's pet monkey. :D

[ericjosepi]

Wait, there was an orgy thread...

Quite a long time ago... there were some pics courtesy of Aria and myself but that was killed over a year ago now.

[xibalba]

What? Feelin' guilty or somethin'? Also, I recall that that was because you were Aria's pet monkey. :D

Why are you still on these forums anyways you know no one really likes you or wants you around and quit insulting people.

[ericjosepi]

What? Feelin' guilty or somethin'? Also, I recall that that was because you were Aria's pet monkey. :D

I'm actually just sick and tired of being pissed off with religion as an entire concept, thanks for the input. Back to your slum now.

[techliveadmin]

Quoting from :

In the name of ALLAH (SWT), Most Gracious, Most Merciful:

Chapter 002 Al Baqarah Verse 97

"And thou wilt find them greediest of mankind for life and (greedier) than the idolaters. (Each) one of them would like to live a thousand years. And to live (one thousand years) would by no means remove him from the doom. Allah is a seer of what they do"

What it means:

You will find amongst you those who are worse than idolaters. Men are greedy and want to live 1000 years and more if they could. But those who reject faith as the idolaters have (athiests reject faith as well) will be doomed to the fires of hell even if they lived 1000 years. Because they will eventually die!

[njshadow]

Quite a long time ago... there were some pics courtesy of Aria and myself but that was killed over a year ago now.

Anyway, back to the actual discussion. Quit trolling.

[ryudo]

Why are you still on these forums anyways you know no one really likes you or wants you around and quit insulting people.

Because the world needs to be saved and switch over to his belief and play PS3 otherwise we are all sinners and playing the wrong console.

[ericjosepi]

Anyway, back to the actual discussion. Quit trolling.

Yeah... sure... I'm trolling...

[njshadow]

I'm actually just sick and tired of being pissed off with religion as an entire concept, thanks for the input. Back to your slum now.

Then why don't you go off and pollute some other thread! Why do you insist on staying in this thread then!?

[patch]

I was, and I did.

To be like Christ and love others doesn't mean you have to accept the bible. Some of the most Christ-like people I have ever known were never Christian.

He obviously isn't.

33In the same way, any of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple.

If he did, he wouldn't have a computer to be using these forums...

[patch]

Yeah... sure... I'm trolling...

*casts a level 3 Fire Bolt at the troll. Causing 5 points of damage, plus 10 points of damage for Trolls being vulnerable to fire.*

[ryudo]

My padlock sense just went off.

[ericjosepi]

*casts a level 3 Fire Bolt at the troll. Causing 5 points of damage, plus 10 points of damage for Trolls being vulnerable to fire.*

OH NOES!! I GOT PWNT~!!11eleventy11!!~

[njshadow]

My padlock sense just went off.

Patch actually contributed to the discussion. Heck, even Aria did. But when you get trolls like josepi it's bound to happen.

[ericjosepi]

Patch actually contributed to the discussion. Heck, even Aria did. But when you get trolls like josepi it's bound to happen.

Yep, I've done nothing but troll.

[phatlip12]

Sad, I'm forced to now lock such an interesting thread thanks to a few who feel the need to act immature and pollute the thread with flaming and troll posts. Thanks alot guys.

Locked. ~Phatlip12