'Battlestar Galactica' - The Final Season

[conorkilpatrick]

It's time.

http://nymag.com/images/2/daily/entertainment/08/04/02_battlestar_lg.jpg

[gungadin]

I'm up for live blogging... Anyone in?

[six-gun]

Hell yes

[gungadin]

The new intro kicks ass.

[acomicbookgirl]

Loving it.

[acomicbookgirl]

Oh my! Did he just do that?!

[gungadin]

GOD DAMN that sequence was genius.

[six-gun]

I bought it

[six-gun]

best battle ever

[gungadin]

I can't believe they put Anders in a fucking Viper... Gods damn...

[gungadin]

This fight scene is like... the best one they've ever done...

[six-gun]

The fleet was screwed

[six-gun]

This fight scene is like... the best one they've ever done...

agreed

and I thought I enjoyed Lost. No, this is a tv show right here

[gungadin]

Best. Show. On. Television.

[gungadin]

Does anyone else get just super depressed when you see the number go down?

[gungadin]

and I thought I enjoyed Lost. No, this is a tv show right here

That ten minutes of television had me frakkin riveted. More so than any episode of LOST thus far this season. Nothing against LOST, but damn that was... just... Jesus... This is how you do it, you're right.

[six-gun]

Hey Paper, Frakity frak frak fraking frakity frak

[gungadin]

Six hours? That's a hell of a six hours...

[paper]

Hey Paper, Frakity frak frak fraking frakity frak

I have eyes everywhere!!!!!

[six-gun]

Oh Baltar!

[gungadin]

If I got women like Baltar got women I'd be a happy man.

[six-gun]

I have eyes everywhere!!!!!

well frak

[gungadin]

She's the clue?! Frakkin genius!

[acomicbookgirl]

well frak

Can we please start acting our age and not our shoe size? ;)

Some of us would like to enjoy this thread. Thanks.

I can't believe she's back!

[gungadin]

I love how Baltar's all post-coital and everyone's like "Bles bless bless!" and ignoring the fact that he's all... post-coital.

[gungadin]

I can't believe she's back!

That part kicks ass...

[gungadin]

Gods damn... They're Cylons. They just are. That's such genius.

[gungadin]

Eddie James Olmos needs an Emmy.

[acomicbookgirl]

Eddie James Olmos needs an Emmy.

Yes he does!

[acomicbookgirl]

Enough with the commercials.. Finally!

[gungadin]

That Iron Man commercial was awesome, though.

[acomicbookgirl]

I love those Father-Son moments..

[acomicbookgirl]

That Iron Man commercial was awesome, though.

Yeah. The only commercial I liked.

[gungadin]

Oh man... This is just so well written... Damn...

[gungadin]

Oh Baltar... Poor Baltar...

[six-gun]

brutal

[gungadin]

God damn I missed Starbuck...

[gungadin]

God dammit. Of course they end it there! Of course!

[six-gun]

wowzers

[conorkilpatrick]

The structure of the next week teaser would suggest that Kara is the final cylon.

Good episode. Not great, but very good.

[ngower]

The structure of the next week teaser would suggest that Kara is the final cylon.

Good episode. Not great, but very good.

I disagree. Notice how Roslin wasn't in any of the scenes? I'm thinking Starbuck is gonna shoot Roslin and it'll cut to the Cylon baseship, where she'll wake up.

[gungadin]

I'm just gonna say (I don't know anything, but still) that I really don't think Kara's the last Cylon.

[conorkilpatrick]

I disagree. Notice how Roslin wasn't in any of the scenes? I'm thinking Starbuck is gonna shoot Roslin and it'll cut to the Cylon baseship, where she'll wake up.

I wasn't talking about the clips, I was talking about the structure.

The shadowy right to left pan on one character looking right at the camera in-between the clips was only of cylons and Kara.

[six-gun]

\
Good episode. Not great, but very good.

umm, a reason?

[conorkilpatrick]

umm, a reason?

The beginning was great and then it slowed way down, which is fine, premiere episodes aren't usually about holy crap moments. It was very good but lacked the WOWness of last season's opener.

[six-gun]

The beginning was great and then it slowed way down, which is fine, premiere episodes aren't usually about holy crap moments. It was very good but lacked the WOWness of last season's opener.

I disagree, but I see what you mean

[gungadin]

The beginning was great and then it slowed way down, which is fine, premiere episodes aren't usually about holy crap moments. It was very good but lacked the WOWness of last season's opener.

I see exactly what you mean... But I thought that while it did slow down (and noticeably) it was extremely well written.

Also, I think part of what made the last season's opener so good was its ability to show the first two parts of the four part New Caprica arc at once. This one, being only one part didn't have that opportunity. Maybe next week we could look at them and see if they put them both on back to back if they would have gone better like that...

[valoharth]

Score its already on Hulu

[valoharth]

The special effects this season are incredible!

[valoharth]

The beginning was great and then it slowed way down, which is fine, premiere episodes aren't usually about holy crap moments. It was very good but lacked the WOWness of last season's opener.

I agree with this, but even though it slowed down it was still too short felt like they should have made it a two hour event instead of a one hour event. I bet if you watch this episode and the next one back to back it will set up better as a whole.

I'm afraid I can see where the Baltar story line is going... I started to piece it together last night before I saw this and this episode may have cemented it. I'm not going to say what I think is going to happen to him, I will just keep it to myself.

With that said all I have to say now, damn does it feel good to have this show back on air.

[horatio616]

I think the 12th cylon is Sharon and Helo's baby, who represents the next step in cylon evolution.

A weird thought I know, but I don't think they'll go with a typical reveal here.

[xyzzy]

I think the 12th cylon is Sharon and Helo's baby, who represents the next step in cylon evolution.

A weird thought I know, but I don't think they'll go with a typical reveal here.


That doesn't really make sense, since she wasn't around when they said that there were 12 models. Plus, that's not really much of a reveal, since we and the characters both already know that she's a hybrid.

[smokmnky]

So what's up with the Chiefs baby then, isn't that a hybrid as well. Assuming that he really is a Cylon, I don't know why but I still don't believe those 4 are really Cylons but then again I'm sure I'm just looking to deep into things and not believing what's right there.

As for the 12th I know there was a "slip" where it was stated that the 12th was not in that "last supper" picture. Which of course rules out Starbuck. I'm not sure if I really believe that was a "slip" but who knows. My vote is for Gaeta

[valoharth]

So what's up with the Chiefs baby then, isn't that a hybrid as well. Assuming that he really is a Cylon, I don't know why but I still don't believe those 4 are really Cylons but then again I'm sure I'm just looking to deep into things and not believing what's right there.

As for the 12th I know there was a "slip" where it was stated that the 12th was not in that "last supper" picture. Which of course rules out Starbuck. I'm not sure if I really believe that was a "slip" but who knows. My vote is for Gaeta

It might not be the Chief's... And the 12th Cylon wasn't on the ship other wise I'm sure it would have showed up. My money is on some one who has already died.

[horatio616]

That doesn't really make sense, since she wasn't around when they said that there were 12 models. Plus, that's not really much of a reveal, since we and the characters both already know that she's a hybrid.

This show is all about prophecy, so it didn't need to be around at the time.

At this point there's not a whole lot that can surprise us, so it's the execution that will give the reveal meaning. There's really no drama in the reveal.

There are two hybrids. Maybe Chief's child will give rise to the human race (meaning that all Earthlings are part Cylon) and Sharon's baby will give rise to the next stage of Cylons.

Since there are 12 Cylons and 12 tribes, does it mean that there is one Cylon in each tribe? That might mean that Dee could be the 12 Cylon. The 13th tribe, then, might arise from the union of Cylon and human.

[horatio616]

It might not be the Chief's... And the 12th Cylon wasn't on the ship other wise I'm sure it would have showed up. My money is on some one who has already died.

Lee's brother?

What about Commander Cain? The writers love that character.

[gungadin]

It might not be the Chief's... And the 12th Cylon wasn't on the ship other wise I'm sure it would have showed up. My money is on some one who has already died.

I could be wrong, but the trailer for next week says that the final five are in the fleet... Or something like that... So...

My guess is the five aren't dead and they're alive and in the fleet... Ron Moore's said that the rules for the final five are different from the others... So we'll see...

Also, I really, REALLY doubt it's Cain. She's gone. She's dead. It's over.

[-mk-]

The wife and I watched Season 3 in its entirety before seeing the premier of Season 4. We both thought the effects in the flight/fight scenes were AWESOME compared to the other seasons. Just more gritty. I think Roslyn is the fifth based on her reaction after the jump where the Cylons were.

Don't like what they did with Baltar at all - I hope he gets more interesting than this.

[horatio616]

The wife and I watched Season 3 in its entirety before seeing the premier of Season 4. We both thought the effects in the flight/fight scenes were AWESOME compared to the other seasons. Just more gritty. I think Roslyn is the fifth based on her reaction after the jump where the Cylons were.

Don't like what they did with Baltar at all - I hope he gets more interesting than this.

I'm pretty sure the executive producer said that none of the major characters are the 12th Cylon, and that includes the Adamas, Roslin, Baltar, and Starbuck.

[conorkilpatrick]

I'm pretty sure the executive producer said that none of the major characters are the 12th Cylon, and that includes the Adamas, Roslin, Baltar, and Starbuck.

Hmmm... really? Do you have a link on that?

[conorkilpatrick]

Hmmm... really? Do you have a link on that?

Nevermind, I found it (http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20169703,00.html).

I think the 12th cylon is Hendrix.

[horatio616]

Hmmm... really? Do you have a link on that?


"Eleven Cylons now have been revealed, so who is the 12th and final Cylon? Contrary to fan speculation, Moore swears it isn't one of the show's primary humans. Not Starbuck or President Roslin. Not Admiral Adama (Edward James Olmos) or his son, Lee (Jamie Bamber). Or even the ever-dubious, Cylon-shagging Gaius Baltar (James Callis). "Even if you guess correctly, it's still just a guess," Moore says. "There's no way anyone can figure it out without knowing exactly where we're going with the final season."


The link is broken to the original article but I've seen the above on various message boards. I'll keep looking. This was from TV Guide I think.

Also, there's a "Last Supper" photo of the cast, and supposedly the 12th Cylon is not in the photo.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/taintedlunch/2177726792_7b0e59cfbd.jpg

[gungadin]

All this does is make me excited...

[conorkilpatrick]

Also, there's a "Last Supper" photo of the cast, and supposedly the 12th Cylon is not in the photo.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/taintedlunch/2177726792_7b0e59cfbd.jpg

Look at my post right above yours. :)

[horatio616]

Look at my post right above yours. :)

Ah, I was looking all over for that. My guess, unless they decide to get abstract, is that the last Cylon is Lee's wife Duella. I don't know the backgrounds of all the characters, but 12 Cylons, 12 colonies, one from each. Her heritage was highlighted in one episode so maybe she is the Cylon that infiltrated that particular colony (Sagittarus?).

[xyzzy]

My money is on Tom Zarek.

[conorkilpatrick]

Hmmm... I like the Duella theory. Plus, the empty chair is next to Apollo - and all the couples are sitting together at the table.

[odds-bodkins]

D'Anna's reaction to seeing the 12th cylon was one of complete shock and awe as to who it was. It has to be someone of Roslin's stature (but hopefully not her).

[adeepercut2k]

I'm surprised that no one's tossed in one name - Billy. Could he be the ace up the sleeve? Or would it jump the shark at that moment. I like the idea of Zarek or Dualla...but Billy would be just a major f you to the "humans" on the show. At the same time it could heal both sides and bring them together. Sorta like, "don't worry humans, we cylon aren't all bad". LOL.

[valoharth]

I'm surprised that no one's tossed in one name - Billy. Could he be the ace up the sleeve? Or would it jump the shark at that moment. I like the idea of Zarek or Dualla...but Billy would be just a major f you to the "humans" on the show. At the same time it could heal both sides and bring them together. Sorta like, "don't worry humans, we cylon aren't all bad". LOL.

Thats who I had in mind when I suggested that it might be some one who died. Billy's death was the hardest because I liked the guy from the get go and his death seemed a bit too early.

[gungadin]

D'Anna's reaction to seeing the 12th cylon was one of complete shock and awe as to who it was. It has to be someone of Roslin's stature (but hopefully not her).

But was that the fifth? We have no idea who she saw. It could be Tigh for all we know....

[adeepercut2k]

But was that the fifth? We have no idea who she saw. It could be Tigh for all we know....
From what I remember, in that episode it was supposed to be the 12th cylon. FWIR. :)

[odds-bodkins]

From what I remember, in that episode it was supposed to be the 12th cylon. FWIR. :)

It was most definitely supposed to be #12. "Oh, it's you."

[horatio616]

I'm surprised that no one's tossed in one name - Billy. Could he be the ace up the sleeve? Or would it jump the shark at that moment. I like the idea of Zarek or Dualla...but Billy would be just a major f you to the "humans" on the show. At the same time it could heal both sides and bring them together. Sorta like, "don't worry humans, we cylon aren't all bad". LOL.

If they're going to go off the board like that I'd rather they go with Admiral Cain. She'd be the ultimate Cylon baddie someone that Cylons and humans alike fear and who could bring the two sides together to battle her.

[horatio616]

"Battlestar Galactica Plan Subject to Change"

http://www.syfyportal.com/news424887.html

[adeepercut2k]

If they're going to go off the board like that I'd rather they go with Admiral Cain. She'd be the ultimate Cylon baddie someone that Cylons and humans alike fear and who could bring the two sides together to battle her.
I don't know if I'd like that one. She came across as such a complex human being in Razor. If it is her, she needs to come across on a level like the star-child in 2001. Some kind of major jump forward in human/cylon evolution. I'd buy that. Like the result of a missing link. Perhaps she's the result of the first human/cylon child, conceived well before boomer's child?

But if she just comes out as a baddie...meh.
Maybe if she is super duper major baddie, like evil incarnate baddie.

[horatio616]

I just read this on a message board. Someone posited the theory that Galactica was a Cylon and that's where the music was coming from. Interesting, if unlikely.

[valoharth]

I just read this on a message board. Someone posited the theory that Galactica was a Cylon and that's where the music was coming from. Interesting, if unlikely.

I don't think the music was coming from an out side source but was just in their heads. The switch clicked because they were getting close to Earth. The fifth Cylon model might actually have been fully aware the whole time and has been navigating everything just right to move everyone, humans and Cylons to full-fill the proficiency.

[wade-wilson]

If Starbuck isn't the final Cylon ... how is she alive?

Theories?

[horatio616]

If Starbuck isn't the final Cylon ... how is she alive?

Theories?

She's a religious figure, a prophet, a Christ analogue. She obviously has some sort of time-travel powers, as she was able to go into the past and visit her mother on her deathbed. This returned Kara is her from some point in the past.

I'm thinking she's a hybrid. They've never mentioned who her father is, have they? That's how her mother knows that she is special and has a special destiny.

[gungadin]

I don't know what Starbuck is... But I don't think she's a Cylon or a Hybrid... They said she's an allegory of the demigod Aurora, and is fulfilling the position of the figure she gave Adama way back in Maelstrom.

[horatio616]

I don't know what Starbuck is... But I don't think she's a Cylon or a Hybrid... They said she's an allegory of the demigod Aurora, and is fulfilling the position of the figure she gave Adama way back in Maelstrom.

It has something to do with her mother. She knows her destiny and she was in the military meaning she could have had contact with Cylons. The hybrids that navigate the Base Stars have visions so perhaps that's why Starbuck does too. She's an exceptional pilot, after all.

[gungadin]

It has something to do with her mother. She knows her destiny and she was in the military meaning she could have had contact with Cylons. The hybrids that navigate the Base Stars have visions so perhaps that's why Starbuck does too. She's an exceptional pilot, after all.

That's entirely possible, plausible even... But Kara's mother talking about her having a destiny could have been her being a mother and loving her child (I'm sure your parents said you're meant for special things... most parents do...) and repeating what Starbuck's said before...

[valoharth]

I don't know what Starbuck is... But I don't think she's a Cylon or a Hybrid... They said she's an allegory of the demigod Aurora, and is fulfilling the position of the figure she gave Adama way back in Maelstrom.

She's Moses, a sexy Moses...

But yea I don't think she's a Hybrid or anything other then human. In the original BSG there were outer cavitations on the way to earth, they really haven't used this in the BSG (just hinted at it). The civilization might have actually been waiting for Kara's arrival and took appropriate measures to assure that she goes to earth and return to the fleet.

[horatio616]

That's entirely possible, plausible even... But Kara's mother talking about her having a destiny could have been her being a mother and loving her child (I'm sure your parents said you're meant for special things... most parents do...) and repeating what Starbuck's said before...

I don't think it would have been a major story point if it were not significant to the greater story. Starbuck has visions, is an exceptional pilot, and seemingly has special powers (time travel), all of which are qualities of the Hybrids that navigate the Base Stars. Her mother was in the military and could have somehow stolen a hybrid during an encounter on a Base Star or somehow come into contact with a Cylon agent on earth. Is it possible that the Cylon following her around is her father?

"What has happened before will happen again."

The Cylon mated with her mother and will now do the same to her.

[gungadin]

I don't think it would have been a major story point if it were not significant to the greater story. Starbuck has visions, is an exceptional pilot, and seemingly has special powers (time travel), all of which are qualities of the Hybrids that navigate the Base Stars. Her mother was in the military and could have somehow stolen a hybrid during an encounter on a Base Star or somehow come into contact with a Cylon agent on earth. Is it possible that the Cylon following her around is her father?

"What has happened before will happen again."

The Cylon mated with her mother and will now do the same to her.

When Starbuck "visited" her mother, she was passed out in her Viper and had a vision of Leoben. I don't think that was time travel. We don't know if Kara was ACTUALLY there when her mother died (I really don't think she was)... it could have been a dream of her getting closure. Maelstrom, the entire episode, was about bringing Starbuck's character full circle and giving her that sense of closure before they ballsily killed her off. I really don't think she has the ability to time travel. She was traveling with a guide, someone she perceived as Leoben, who gave her the ability to revisit the past, not to time travel.

[valoharth]

When Starbuck "visited" her mother, she was passed out in her Viper and had a vision of Leoben. I don't think that was time travel. We don't know if Kara was ACTUALLY there when her mother died (I really don't think she was)... it could have been a dream of her getting closure. Maelstrom, the entire episode, was about bringing Starbuck's character full circle and giving her that sense of closure before they ballsily killed her off. I really don't think she has the ability to time travel. She was traveling with a guide, someone she perceived as Leoben, who gave her the ability to revisit the past, not to time travel.

You're right about that, it was just a hallucination of Kara's part. Most prophets have "Spirit Guides" that lead them on their visions. It's a classic storytelling hook.

[xyzzy]

If Starbuck isn't the final Cylon ... how is she alive?

Theories?

We saw her ship explode, but we don't know if she was in it. I'm guessing some other agency plucked her out of her ship somehow, replaced it, took her to Earth and back to the fleet.

[horatio616]

We saw her ship explode, but we don't know if she was in it. I'm guessing some other agency plucked her out of her ship somehow, replaced it, took her to Earth and back to the fleet.

Her Viper. Wasn't it in better condition than when she left, like brand new? I may be misremembering.

[valoharth]

Her Viper. Wasn't it in better condition than when she left, like brand new? I may be misremembering.

Yea it's Brand New, no doubt about that.

[gungadin]

Yea it's Brand New, no doubt about that.

To quote them, "There isn't a scratch on it."

Like with the LOST writers, I have faith in the Battlestar writers to explain how she came back. They'd always intended her to come back when they killed her, so there's a greater plan to all of this...

Talking about this show makes me impatient for the next ep...

[valoharth]

To quote them, "There isn't a scratch on it."

Like with the LOST writers, I have faith in the Battlestar writers to explain how she came back. They'd always intended her to come back when they killed her, so there's a greater plan to all of this...

Talking about this show makes me impatient for the next ep...

I'm not even going to get into the whole "Faith" in the Lost writers thing, (I don't have any for a reason).

But yes I do have faith in the Battlestar writers to explain how she came back in a very believable way or maybe even hint at it so you can figure it out.

Everyone is saying that this season is going to wrap up everything into a neat package, tie up all loose ends. I don't think that’s gonna happen. I think they are going to pull a Joss Whedon and leave some things a mystery, because lets face it a good mystery sticks with you longer and just handing the answer to you will just demean the series.

And its only a day away till a new ep... I get to live blog it possibly! w00t.

[horatio616]

I'm not even going to get into the whole "Faith" in the Lost writers thing, (I don't have any for a reason).

But yes I do have faith in the Battlestar writers to explain how she came back in a very believable way or maybe even hint at it so you can figure it out.

Everyone is saying that this season is going to wrap up everything into a neat package, tie up all loose ends. I don't think that’s gonna happen. I think they are going to pull a Joss Whedon and leave some things a mystery, because lets face it a good mystery sticks with you longer and just handing the answer to you will just demean the series.

And its only a day away till a new ep... I get to live blog it possibly! w00t.

Yeah, I doubt much of the religious stuff will pay off, including the true nature of Starbuck. I do think they will at least pay off on the 12th cylon thing.

Bigger question: when they finally reach Earth, will it be the Earth of the past, present, or future?

[valoharth]

Yeah, I doubt much of the religious stuff will pay off, including the true nature of Starbuck. I do think they will at least pay off on the 12th cylon thing.

Bigger question: when they finally reach Earth, will it be the Earth of the past, present, or future?

They will reach earth and then the screen turns to black, credits role, end of season 4.

A million people scream out in pain...

[gungadin]

Everyone is saying that this season is going to wrap up everything into a neat package, tie up all loose ends. I don't think that’s gonna happen. I think they are going to pull a Joss Whedon and leave some things a mystery, because lets face it a good mystery sticks with you longer and just handing the answer to you will just demean the series.

Yeah, I doubt much of the religious stuff will pay off, including the true nature of Starbuck. I do think they will at least pay off on the 12th cylon thing.

There's no way they're not giving us answers. No way. This whole thing is... it's too big in scope. They know who the 12th Cylon is (Ron Moore and the writers) and they're going to touch on the religious aspects a little bit. There's the whole Roslin filling the role of the prophet aspect that they played up in a big way at the end of the first and start of the second season and it hasn't really gone away. Her breast cancer being back is one of the big ways that we see the religion coming back to play a role in the series. They will tie up loose ends. Will there be ambiguity on some things? Yes, but all of the major questions (like LOST) will be answered. They won't just leave you hanging. Joss has mysteries in his shows, but he knows the answers and he always intended to give them to the audience, but like he's said before: "TV is about questions, movies are about answers." With the show ending, there's no need for them to drag questions out any more, so we'll get answers and in big ways...

Also, re: Starbuck and her destiny: We have NO idea what that means, really. It could mean any number of things, from a literal interpretation, to the convergence of Cylon and human (an end to the human race in a way) or the Hybrd could have beens straight up lying to her.

I wanna see how the older model of Cylons from Razor are going to play a role in this season. No way have we seen the last of them...

Bigger question: when they finally reach Earth, will it be the Earth of the past, present, or future?

That's the big question, isn't it? I just read Ron Moore's blurb on the season three soundtrack (which is just unGodily good and awesome and cool. Couldn't recommend that higher) and he's got a point: Adding "All Along the Watchtower" was ballsy, damn ballsy. He said he wanted to include a song from Earth on a jukebox while Helo and Athena were on Caprica in first season and Helo would just recognize it as it played in the background or a cafe or something...

All this sidestepping aside, this is one of the questions I refuse to speculate on. We know they're going to get to Earth. They have to, there's no way. We've seen it, they'll see it, they'll at least get there... And whenever they show up is going to blow my mind. I know it will... But I refuse to guess about when they'll show up. I just want to be completely surprised by that.

[horatio616]

Ha, I was thinking the same thing.

I bet it will be the distant future and they will find that we've destroyed ourselves and there will be ruined cities and the whole nine. The humans and Cylons will realize that together they can rebuild Earth and coexist peacefully.

Typically though, these shows go out of their way NOT to satisfy us with their endings, so I bet it will be vague and confusing.

[gungadin]

They will reach earth and then the screen turns to black, credits role, end of season 4.

A million people scream out in pain...

You're... joking... right?

[valoharth]

You're... joking... right?

I'm not really kidding, if I was a writer on this it's what I'd be pushing for. I don't think that this season will end with answers, however, like you bring up "TV is for questions, Movies are for Answers"... I'm putting my money down right now in saying that BGS isn't done with Season 4, the TV series is done with Season 4 but I'm sure there will be a movie or a mini series much like how it began all about what happens on Earth when they get there.

[conorkilpatrick]

I still say that this would be the best show ever if they got to Earth and it was the Earth of the original Star Trek series.

"Unidentified vessel, this is Captain James T. Kirk of the starship Enterprise. Please respond."

Cut to black. Roll credits. Move the credits over to the side for a bunch of promos.

[horatio616]

I still say that this would be the best show ever if they got to Earth and it was the Earth of the original Star Trek series.

"Unidentified vessel, this is Captain James T. Kirk of the starship Enterprise. Please respond."

Cut to black. Roll credits. Move the credits over to the side for a bunch of promos.

Oh man. Now THAT I could get behind. Kirk would do every woman on that show. These Colonists and Cylons would have no hope against the Space Pimp.

It would be a cool visual to see a Viper/Raider battle in red skies over a devastated city.

[valoharth]

Oh man. Now THAT I could get behind. Kirk would do every woman on that show. These Colonists and Cylons would have no hope against the Space Pimp.

It would be a cool visual to see a Viper/Raider battle in red skies over a devastated city.

It's all clear now, James T. Kirk is the 12th Cylon...

[horatio616]

It's all clear now, James T. Kirk is the 12th Cylon...

I remember reading that there were plans to have Dirk Benedict play a major role in the end of the series but I believe they've nixed that.

[conorkilpatrick]

I remember reading that there were plans to have Dirk Benedict play a major role in the end of the series but I believe they've nixed that.

Not this season.

The season 1 finale, "Kobol's Last Gleaming, Parts 1-2", went through a number of changes according to the Podcast commentary for both episodes. Some of these early differences include:

- What Baltar and Number Six experienced inside the ruins on Kobol went through a number of changes. Originally, Ron D. Moore proposed to the other writers that there was supposed to be a bright corridor of light. In a later version, there was to be complete darkness punctuated with music from a song recognizable by both the audience and the two explorers. Then, Dirk Benedict (Starbuck from the original "Battlestar Galactica" (1978)) was supposed appear and say something like, "Hi. I'm God." followed by TO BE CONTINUED... However, the other writers quickly disparaged the idea as implausible, and Ron D. Moore reluctantly agreed.

[valoharth]

I think I may have an Idea here:

The Final Cylons were to be activated when they got closer to Earth, and the thing that sets them off would be a certain song via radio signal. I was thinking about how similar the events in Contact were similar to what happen to Starbuck. Radio signals can travel through space quite a ways.

[gungadin]

In the original series, didn't they get to Earth and find out it was like... you know... 1980? The original series took place "in real time" with the external chronology of the show...

On that note, can you imagine the kick ass fight scene between Kirk's Enterpirse and the Galactica and its Vipers?

[horatio616]

I think I may have an Idea here:

The Final Cylons were to be activated when they got closer to Earth, and the thing that sets them off would be a certain song via radio signal. I was thinking about how similar the events in Contact were similar to what happen to Starbuck. Radio signals can travel through space quite a ways.

Interesting idea. Hasn't NASA been broadcasting special signals into space for years?

[valoharth]

Interesting idea. Hasn't NASA been broadcasting special signals into space for years?

So what you're saying is NASA is the 12th Cylon... brilliant no one would see it coming!

(I was trying to make a Hawking joke but couldn't figure out a way to spin it.)

[xyzzy]

I think I may have an Idea here:

The Final Cylons were to be activated when they got closer to Earth, and the thing that sets them off would be a certain song via radio signal. I was thinking about how similar the events in Contact were similar to what happen to Starbuck. Radio signals can travel through space quite a ways.

You'd think that Galactica would also pick up any such signal.

Some of these theories are pretty out there. Honestly, I don't think that there was any sort of outside transmission, from Galactica, Earth or wherever. It was purely an internal perception.

[valoharth]

You'd think that Galactica would also pick up any such signal.

Some of these theories are pretty out there. Honestly, I don't think that there was any sort of outside transmission, from Galactica, Earth or wherever. It was purely an internal perception.

It depends on what frequanceys they were looking at, they may transmit on a stronger or weaker bandwith then FM and AM. Plus there is the deteriation of the signal, unless they knew what they were looking for they probably wouldn't find anything.

I don't think that some of these Theories are out there, but it's all speculation. I can say one thing for sure, we won't see it coming.

[valoharth]

In the original series, didn't they get to Earth and find out it was like... you know... 1980? The original series took place "in real time" with the external chronology of the show...

On that note, can you imagine the kick ass fight scene between Kirk's Enterpirse and the Galactica and its Vipers?

It was a mini sereis I think, it was Apollo and Starbuck (I think) that find Earth but I don't think the fleet finds earth. Its on Hulu thought Glatica 1980.

[xyzzy]

It depends on what frequanceys they were looking at, they may transmit on a stronger or weaker bandwith then FM and AM. Plus there is the deteriation of the signal, unless they knew what they were looking for they probably wouldn't find anything.

I don't think that some of these Theories are out there, but it's all speculation. I can say one thing for sure, we won't see it coming.


I just think you're reading into it way too much. The music is present as a dramatic way to present the change, with a healthy dose of symbolism.

[horatio616]

It was a mini sereis I think, it was Apollo and Starbuck (I think) that find Earth but I don't think the fleet finds earth. Its on Hulu thought Glatica 1980.

I watched a bit of the first episode of the original on hulu. Great invention. If I remember correctly Galactica 1980 was horrid.

[valoharth]

I just think you're reading into it way too much. The music is present as a dramatic way to present the change, with a healthy dose of symbolism.

Unlike other shows, *ahem* Lost *ahem* the writers of BGS don't throw in things to just miss lead you. I mean its not like I'm sitting here saying, "Lee used his right hand to sign a document in the Mini Series but in the Crossroads part One, he was using his right hand. He's the 12th Cylon because only Cylons can be ambidextroreus like that."

I don't think I'm grasping at straws but than again I might be. They could take it in another direction that I can't see coming. I would love it if they do, as long as its not a simple cop out. I get the symbolism here, there is quite a bit but really has BSG really been that simple?

In truth what ever I can come up with will never be as good as what they do. (atleast I don't think). Most of what I'm writing here should be taking as "If I were a writer on BSG, then this is what I would do".

[conorkilpatrick]

Unlike other shows, *ahem* Lost *ahem* the writers of BGS don't throw in things to just miss lead you.

There's really no need for that.

[valoharth]

There's really no need for that.

Don't get me wrong, I love Lost I just get fustrated some times. It's like the puppy that pee's all over your floor, you just can't stay mad at him.

[xyzzy]

Unlike other shows, *ahem* Lost *ahem* the writers of BGS don't throw in things to just miss lead you. I mean its not like I'm sitting here saying, "Lee used his right hand to sign a document in the Mini Series but in the Crossroads part One, he was using his right hand. He's the 12th Cylon because only Cylons can be ambidextroreus like that."

I don't think I'm grasping at straws but than again I might be. They could take it in another direction that I can't see coming. I would love it if they do, as long as its not a simple cop out. I get the symbolism here, there is quite a bit but really has BSG really been that simple?


Actually, I'd say yes. BSG has been a pretty straighforward show. As you say, they don't throw things out just to mislead the viewer. There's no reason to think that the music is anything but internal, since that is how it was presented.

[valoharth]

Actually, I'd say yes. BSG has been a pretty straighforward show. As you say, they don't throw things out just to mislead the viewer. There's no reason to think that the music is anything but internal, since that is how it was presented.

Well I think you're wrong about that, it never really was said to be internal but I will also concede and that it wasn't said it was external. I'm just answering the question as to "Why now? Why are the activated now?" that would require an external event to happen. If it was something to do with fleet being so close to being destroyed then they would have activated themselves in season one, or even when the colonies were being blown up. They didn't, granted the writers probably didn't even think about a final 5 in the miniseries when that happen.

From a story stand point something like this had to happen, but the reason for it to happen also has to be believable by the viewer. For me the simplest answer is something external had to activate them. It could have been the 12th Cylon, it could have been Kara, it could have been a lot of things internal or external.

[xyzzy]

Well I think you're wrong about that, it never really was said to be internal but I will also concede and that it wasn't said it was external. I'm just answering the question as to "Why now? Why are the activated now?" that would require an external event to happen. If it was something to do with fleet being so close to being destroyed then they would have activated themselves in season one, or even when the colonies were being blown up. They didn't, granted the writers probably didn't even think about a final 5 in the miniseries when that happen.

From a story stand point something like this had to happen, but the reason for it to happen also has to be believable by the viewer. For me the simplest answer is something external had to activate them. It could have been the 12th Cylon, it could have been Kara, it could have been a lot of things internal or external.

Sure, something triggered them. But the source of the trigger and the source of the music are two different issues. It's one thing to say that event X caused that mental switch to go over, it's another to say that there's an actual music transmission coming from somewhere. That really doesn't make any sense to me. I think that's an overly literal reading of what's happening in that scene.

You might as well say that any of the dream sequences are video transmissions from Earth. There's just no reason to think that.

[valoharth]

Sure, something triggered them. But the source of the trigger and the source of the music are two different issues. It's one thing to say that event X caused that mental switch to go over, it's another to say that there's an actual music transmission coming from somewhere. That really doesn't make any sense to me. I think that's an overly literal reading of what's happening in that scene.

You might as well say that any of the dream sequences are video transmissions from Earth. There's just no reason to think that.

I know what your doing, your useing that Lawyer mojo of your's. ;)

I'm really just saying its a possibility, the writers might actually leave it up for interpertation as to whats going on and no one is right. For me, this makes the most sense. Radio frequencys travel thru outerspace, the music that they are hearing is from Earth, They have never been to earth (that we know of) so I think it's a reasonable claim. But like most things I could be wrong.

[xyzzy]

I know what your doing, your useing that Lawyer mojo of your's. ;)

I'm really just saying its a possibility, the writers might actually leave it up for interpertation as to whats going on and no one is right. For me, this makes the most sense. Radio frequencys travel thru outerspace, the music that they are hearing is from Earth, They have never been to earth (that we know of) so I think it's a reasonable claim. But like most things I could be wrong.

Well, I don't think there's any reason to think that the music is from Earth, just because it's a song from the real world. Any more than we should think that their handguns and personal firearms are from Earth, even though they clearly are from the real world as well. It's simply a convenience, like them speaking English.

[gungadin]

Well, I don't think there's any reason to think that the music is from Earth, just because it's a song from the real world. Any more than we should think that their handguns and personal firearms are from Earth, even though they clearly are from the real world as well. It's simply a convenience, like them speaking English.

I think the song ties to the mystery of earth. I'm not saying it came specifically comes from Earth, but the fact that four of the final five Cylons knew some iteration of the same song between each other, and we know that song too somehow feeds into the mythology of the show.

[labor_days]

I didn't think the song was coming from Earth. Rather it came from Earth. As in it was sent as a transmission ages ago and only now reached BSG.

[wade-wilson]

I saw it totally differently to you guys -- I thought the music they heard was coming from the Cylon ship because it was close, like a triggering mechanism to "wake them up".

Nice thoughts on Starbuck's survival!

So ... who is the final Cylon? Put your guess in now so when it's revealed, you can act like you knew!

[valoharth]

So anyone live blogging this tonight?

[horatio616]

I've just spent the last week in isolation catching up on season 3 on DVD. I haven't watched any of four yet but I have them DVR'ed. I'd like to watch Razor first but I don't think I'll be able to hold out from watching the first two episodes past tonight.

I've been bugging the hell out of my sister to watch the show and loaned her my season one. Last night she finally gave in and sent me a text "if this isn't the greatest show of all time I'll never speak to you again." She watched the first episode and "liked it."

[xyzzy]

So anyone live blogging this tonight?

What is live blogging? Like typing up what you think about the episode every couple minutes?

[valoharth]

What is live blogging? Like typing up what you think about the episode every couple minutes?

Yep as you watch it, not really what you think but more like your reactions to whats going on.

[valoharth]

I've just spent the last week in isolation catching up on season 3 on DVD. I haven't watched any of four yet but I have them DVR'ed. I'd like to watch Razor first but I don't think I'll be able to hold out from watching the first two episodes past tonight.

I've been bugging the hell out of my sister to watch the show and loaned her my season one. Last night she finally gave in and sent me a text "if this isn't the greatest show of all time I'll never speak to you again." She watched the first episode and "liked it."

You really don't need to watch Razor yet, and kudos on bringing another into the BSG fold.

[acomicbookgirl]

So anyone live blogging this tonight?

I should be around.

[gungadin]

I'll definitely be here. I'm gonna kick the people out of my room if need be...

[gungadin]

And away we go again... I still can't believe this is one of the last nineteen times we'll see this show....

[gungadin]

God damn I love this new opening...

[valoharth]

Wow, I'm really loving the new angle on the Cylons. The internal struggle between them.

[acomicbookgirl]

God damn I love this new opening...

Me too.

[valoharth]

Still calling them Skin Jobs... even when you're one.

[valoharth]

And away we go again... I still can't believe this is one of the last nineteen times we'll see this show....

Dude, don't say it... I wish to believe that there will be another season.

[valoharth]

Meatloaf, are you that hard up for money?

[ngower]

I felt like I was watching the season finale when they pulled that sappy crap with Lee, but I still got a little emotional :(

WE'RE GOING THE WRONG WAY!

[ngower]

That was comparable to Lost's, "The Constant" episode, it was the best BSG episode I've seen in....forever.

[valoharth]

Yes this was the best BSG I think in for ever. They really took it up a notch and I didn't think they could.

[conorkilpatrick]

That was comparable to Lost's, "The Constant" episode, it was the best BSG episode I've seen in....forever.

This week's episode?

[gungadin]

I think they're stuck in exposition for a while... They did some great things, but for the most part it was pretty solid exposition...

[ngower]

This week's episode?

Yes. You had the whole Starbuck situation, which in turn broke apart Roslin and Admiral Adama. Lee is done with the whole war, the Cylon's found out where the five (well four) are, etc...just so many good revelations and all were executed brilliantly. They didn't introduce any stupid new characters, just started to wrap up old storylines. Plus, the whole Baltar thing was CRAZY! Think what you want, but I'm sticking too it, I thought this episode was ****ing brilliant!

[horatio616]

I think they're stuck in exposition for a while... They did some great things, but for the most part it was pretty solid exposition...

Ah! That's exactly what I was thinking as I watched last night. This episode is setting up the new status quo and prepping up for the dash to the finish.

[horatio616]

I'm really surprised that HBO or one of the other premium networks hasn't snatched up Moore for a development deal. Geek is the new black, and, unless I'm having a brain fart, none of them have attempted anything like BG. BG is languishing (in a relative sense) on Sci-Fi. Imagine the buzz if it were an HBO show!

[valoharth]

I was just thinking about it today and I realized after BGS is off the air Sci Fi will have nothing going for it. Other then the Dune mini-series and Farscape this station doesn't really appeal to me.

[horatio616]

I was just thinking about it today and I realized after BGS is off the air Sci Fi will have nothing going for it. Other then the Dune mini-series and Farscape this station doesn't really appeal to me.

Weirdly, the only ones I know who watch this channel other than BG fans are old people who watch those ridiculous "Sci-Fi Originals."

Isn't a big screen remake of Dune in the works?

[charlie-blix]

Isn't a big screen remake of Dune in the works?

Not to get off track from the BSG talks but.... they are making another Dune movie? Doesn't that make like 3 times now? Blah.

[conorkilpatrick]

Weirdly, the only ones I know who watch this channel other than BG fans are old people who watch those ridiculous "Sci-Fi Originals."

I watch Eureka. It's a fun show.

[valoharth]

Not to get off track from the BSG talks but.... they are making another Dune movie? Doesn't that make like 3 times now? Blah.

Its good material, I really like how its Herbert's ode to the Superhero and what would really happen if a Superhero did appear among us. He wrote Dune back in the Silver Age (or Golden) of comics when Superhero's world was black and white. I could go on for days... not going to. I don't think any movie made from Dune really grasped this, the David Lynch Dune had hints but it was more concerned in being a Blockbuster (hence the reason Lynch doesn't even associate his name with it anymore) and the Sci Fi Dune was more about the war going on with the Atraties and the Harkonet (I know the spelling is off on those).

And trust me, if I ever get my foot in the door in Hollywood there will be another remake of Dune.

Oh and I forgot about the Dresden Files, I liked that show and was sad they cancelled it. And I watch Ghost Hunters... yea.

[horatio616]

I watch Eureka. It's a fun show.

I wonder if the Sarah Jane Adventures is any good.

[gobo]

I've only heard bad things

[jmstump]

I'm getting caught up on BSG and this show is awesome. Although at the end of Season 1 when Sharon tries to commit suicide I had to make a FAIL Suicide, you're doing it wrong out of the screen capture. So if anyone wants to see it I'll post it, otherwise I figured I'd skip it for now.

But holy crap I got done with the Season 2 premier and I can't wait to watch more. I'm unfortunately away from my home computer and only had what was on my flash drive.

[labor_days]

If the President turns out to be a Cylon, <3 for me.

[horatio616]

Re: Last Night's Episode

Holy Freakin' Crap!

[valoharth]

So did last nights episode bother anyone else?

[xyzzy]

So did last nights episode bother anyone else?

Bother how? I mean, that was some cold-blooded shit, but I thought that it was a good episode.

[webnet]

So did last nights episode bother anyone else?
I think this episode rocked with Lee and Roslin playing political chicken with each other and Starbuck acting like a complete spaz searching for earth was a change of pace. Earlier she was only acting like a complete spaz when someone ignored her spazing out, However I am still sad about Cally.

[valoharth]

The tone of the show last night was just a bit unsettling. It was good, but felt something was off, I need to watch it again to put my finger on it.

[d4rks1de]

The last episode was great. Loved it! Can't wait to see how they handle the next one!

[valoharth]

I think I nailed what bothered me, all the characters have been at a breaking point for the last few episodes, since Crossroads, and haven't broken down. The only two that have is Kara and Calli. Right now we are in slow burn mode, thats what's bothering me, I just want them to break down already. Oh my when the others all break down, its going to fun to watch.

Also Roslin is getting scary, and I'm loving/hating it. I love that they are taking a good honest character, the good guy basicly, and turning her into a bad guy which I hate. They are really pushing the whole dictator vibe on her, and as a viewer it's hard to see it coming.

[gungadin]

Also Roslin is getting scary, and I'm loving/hating it. I love that they are taking a good honest character, the good guy basicly, and turning her into a bad guy which I hate. They are really pushing the whole dictator vibe on her, and as a viewer it's hard to see it coming.

I recently went back and watched the entire series, taking note to notice when she's been... less than admirable... She's been on dark paths for quite some time. Even last season when she said Baltar doesn't even deserve a trial or when she was willing to genocide against the Cylons... She's been fairly mean and dictatorial for quite some time... I just think they're really enacting it because she's losing Adama and she has to deal with Lee and things aren't going her way AND she's dying of breast cancer... AGAIN.... For me, I can understand where she is and I love it. I think it's exceptionally well written, just like it always has been...

[conorkilpatrick]

I recently went back and watched the entire series, taking note to notice when she's been... less than admirable... She's been on dark paths for quite some time. Even last season when she said Baltar doesn't even deserve a trial or when she was willing to genocide against the Cylons... She's been fairly mean and dictatorial for quite some time... I just think they're really enacting it because she's losing Adama and she has to deal with Lee and things aren't going her way AND she's dying of breast cancer... AGAIN.... For me, I can understand where she is and I love it. I think it's exceptionally well written, just like it always has been...

Yeah, Roslin's always been on the path toward dictatorship. In the beginning, the dictatorial decisions she made could be written off as "for the good of the fleet in the face of cylons" but then slowly her power-grabbing got worse and worse and now it's kind of horrifying.

I imagine that that's how real life dictators emerge.

[valoharth]

I imagine that that's how real life dictators emerge.


That’s what I was kind of getting at, before this season you could understand where she was coming from and you liked her for making the difficult decisions but now like GungaDin said you don't know where she’s coming from and it hits you, this woman has just become a dictator. You think back and you can see the signs that this is where she was heading, and you totally went along with it ignoring the signs. That is some good writing.

[gungadin]

That’s what I was kind of getting at, before this season you could understand where she was coming from and you liked her for making the difficult decisions but now like GungaDin said you don't know where she’s coming from and it hits you, this woman has just become a dictator. You think back and you can see the signs that this is where she was heading, and you totally went along with it ignoring the signs. That is some good writing.

Disco... Exactly what I'm thinking...

That said, I still do think Roslin's a good person... She's just gone kinda mad with power....

[horatio616]

Disco... Exactly what I'm thinking...

That said, I still do think Roslin's a good person... She's just gone kinda mad with power....

Hmm, I don't see it that way. Whittle the human race down to about 40k then put them on the run through space while being hunted to extinction and see what kind of government you end up with. Under the circumstances, she's been pretty reasonable.

Lee, on the other hand, is coming off as weak and petty. Instead of getting into her inner circle and helping from the inside, he's taken the role of the contrarian, acting like a brat rebelling against his dad and his new girlfriend. In a short span of time, he's been easily manipulated by Baltar's attorney and now the Vice President. As a son and "friend" of Roslin, he's done poorly in trying to communicate his views with them.

Obviously, they're setting him up to be the new leader after they get to Earth. They had to get him out of the cockpit so when he became the president it would be more believable.

Didn't anyone else think that they sent too many of their best military personnel on that mission with Kara? All of their best pilots are gone!

[valoharth]

This is a bad analogy but its the only one I can think of, I think Lee is set up to be the Jar-jar of BGS. He's being manipulated by Hatch to ether enstate or discredit Roslin, we won't know for a while. I do agree though they are setting him up to be the leader.

[horatio616]

This is a bad analogy but its the only one I can think of, I think Lee is set up to be the Jar-jar of BGS. He's being manipulated by Hatch to ether enstate or discredit Roslin, we won't know for a while. I do agree though they are setting him up to be the leader.

In America we're always bitching about our leaders fighting in front of the camera instead of working together and here you have Lee being deliberately combative when he could achieve better things as a part of Roslin's government. He comes off badly, like a guy really trying to stick it to his father rather than one worried about the fate of the human race. He could have easily taken that document to Roslin and discussed that with her one-on-one but he seems to be more about making noise in the press. I hope he gets knocked down a peg or two soon but I'm guessing that won't happen.

[valoharth]

I bet they are setting him up to be knocked down, and I have a feeling that’s not going to happen till the end of the season. If there is one weak point in BGS I think it’s been Lee, his personality really clashes with what you would think a Viper jockey would be. It’s clear that he was there because he's trying to please Daddy, which makes him a weak person. Lee has had the smallest character growth in the series, I felt that you could take Lee from the mini series and place him next to last episodes Lee and you couldn't tell the difference. If they do knock him down though, he will become the most interesting character in the series.

[gungadin]

In America we're always bitching about our leaders fighting in front of the camera instead of working together and here you have Lee being deliberately combative when he could achieve better things as a part of Roslin's government. He comes off badly, like a guy really trying to stick it to his father rather than one worried about the fate of the human race. He could have easily taken that document to Roslin and discussed that with her one-on-one but he seems to be more about making noise in the press. I hope he gets knocked down a peg or two soon but I'm guessing that won't happen.

But I didn't interpret it that way. Lee's character from the very beginning has been to do exactly what he feels is right, no matter the effect on himself or the cost to anyone else. He's always backed the President, and for the most part, he's been right. Even in the miniseries he backed her because he thought the war against the Cylons in the Colonial star system was suicide. Then a few episodes later, he sided with his father to help try to rescue Kara. But then by the end of the season, he sides with Roslin and pulls a gun on Tigh. He went against the Pegasus CAG and sent Kara out to spy on the Resurrection Ship without Roslin or his father's backing, and he helped out Baltar, not necessarily because he thought Baltar was right, but because he thought it was fair. He has a very, very strong moral compass, which is odd in the world of people with tons of moral ambiguity (Roslin, Tigh, Kara, Adama) which stands him out in the world.

So when I see him stand up to Roslin, I don't see him openly bitching or challenging her because he wants to cause a stir; I see him standing against him because he sees something wrong. He's like us. We see this thing as wrong and we would be against Roslin's actions. Lee's actions in the meeting room are him standing up for what he believes in more than anything... And that makes him admirable and a good character. He's so consistently written it's kinda great...

[valoharth]

Its a great series because everyone pulls something different from it and the writers know it. See I did get it a bit from Lee at the start when he sided with Roslin in the mini, but I saw that more of a Frak you to his dad. I don't remember where I heard this quote and I don't know who it's from but "A boy doesn't become a man until he makes a decision that isn't motivated to impress his father" (I think that’s how it went), and this is how I see Lee. I see him getting to this point, to where you think he's become a man but then he goes back to trying to impress his dad. Ultimately when he makes a decision to defy his dad he still cares how his dad will see him, like in Crossroads where he doesn't want to take the stand because it will make him look bad to his father.

[horatio616]

So when I see him stand up to Roslin, I don't see him openly bitching or challenging her because he wants to cause a stir; I see him standing against him because he sees something wrong. He's like us. We see this thing as wrong and we would be against Roslin's actions. Lee's actions in the meeting room are him standing up for what he believes in more than anything... And that makes him admirable and a good character. He's so consistently written it's kinda great...

On two occassions he's deliberately humilated Roslin in public when he could have used more tact, especially given her medical condition and what she means to his father. He can still fight for what he believes in while still showing respect to both his father and the President.

Yes, we see this as being wrong, but we're not in a situation where we're facing the end of the human race. Lee's being written as though he were one of us, and it comes off as unrealistic and a bit weak. If Lee were the leader of the human race, I'd be very worried!

[gungadin]

Its a great series because everyone pulls something different from it and the writers know it. See I did get it a bit from Lee at the start when he sided with Roslin in the mini, but I saw that more of a Frak you to his dad. I don't remember where I heard this quote and I don't know who it's from but "A boy doesn't become a man until he makes a decision that isn't motivated to impress his father" (I think that’s how it went), and this is how I see Lee. I see him getting to this point, to where you think he's become a man but then he goes back to trying to impress his dad. Ultimately when he makes a decision to defy his dad he still cares how his dad will see him, like in Crossroads where he doesn't want to take the stand because it will make him look bad to his father.

Hmmmm... I see that. I get that a lot, actually... I can see that standing against his dad in the miniseries as insubordination, but I think he's grown beyond that. He was the President's patsy (sorta kinda) to get back at his father... But I think he's grown beyond that. He's someone who truly cares about his father. I understood him as taking the stand not because he wanted to look bad, but because he does have loyalty to his father. There are those ties to blood that he feels. He has this sense of loyalty and family, especially because him and his dad are "all that's left." It wasn't about looking bad, it was about betraying him. If he'd wanted to get back at his dad, he would have taken the stand right away... But he didn't. He had to be forced to the stand...

On two occassions he's deliberately humilated Roslin in public when he could have used more tact, especially given her medical condition and what she means to his father. He can still fight for what he believes in while still showing respect to both his father and the President.

Yes, we see this as being wrong, but we're not in a situation where we're facing the end of the human race. Lee's being written as though he were one of us, and it comes off as unrealistic and a bit weak. If Lee were the leader of the human race, I'd be very worried!

I get that, although I don't think he really wanted to reveal that she has cancer. The look on his face after that gave me the vibe that he was shocked and saddened by this revelation. I'm sure he just thought she was addicted to Chimala or something...

Also, yes, I agree. He is, in a way, unrealistic and weak... I'd perhaps be worried too, but I do see him (as an observer) and his ideals and holding them up and his unwillingness to sacrifice them as very admirable, especially when everyone else is sacrificing them...

[valoharth]

That’s the theme of this season, Sacrifice. The hero of the story generally has to sacrifice something about themselves or let go of something to move on to the final chapter of the story. Right now BGS is in the final steps of the second act of the series right before the tipping point into the third act. That’s why each episode so far has seemed over so quickly, its just rapidly going to the tipping point.

[gungadin]

That’s the theme of this season, Sacrifice. The hero of the story generally has to sacrifice something about themselves or let go of something to move on to the final chapter of the story. Right now BGS is in the final steps of the second act of the series right before the tipping point into the third act. That’s why each episode so far has seemed over so quickly, its just rapidly going to the tipping point.

Actually, according to Ron Moore, the death of Starbuck in the third season is the first page of the third act of the four act series... That's a lot of numbers...

Sidenote: On Ron Moore's blog (http://rondmoore.com/Site/Blog/Blog.html), in his latest entry (http://rondmoore.com/Site/Blog/Entries/2008/4/18_Podcast_Success!.html), he talks about how he's started writing the last episode of the series.... It made me super, super depressed...

[horatio616]

Ya know, I think Moore is lying about the 12th Cylon not being someone in that Last Supper photograph. Word is that he wasn't present when the photo was taken and had no input on it whatsoever and the placement of the figures was improvised at the time the picture was taken...

[valoharth]

I bet they don't know who the 12th cylon is and they will come out and say, "Well that's for you to figure out"... it would be the biggest Blair'd ever!

[horatio616]

What do you think will happen with the Cylons? Last week's destruction of the basestar means that all of the Sharon, Six, and possibly all the Xena models are dead except the two Sharons and the Six on Galactica. The Raiders have had their free will returned to them so it's set up for a mutiny. I'm thinking they'll destroy all of the humanoid cylons and the ressurection ships then continue the hunt for the humans. Will the 12th Cylon be the new leader of the Cylons?

[gungadin]

I think that's one of the things that's really hooking me about this season... Say what you will about the early days about us not knowing sh*t about the Cylons... but seeing the Basestars and all their little Civil War and everything is freakin one of the hooks of the show right now... I. Love. It.

As for the 12th Cylon, I really think they know who it is and they've known for quite some time. My guess is they came up with it right when they made the decision for the Secret Four.

I'm just intrigued to see what they do with that 12th Cylon... That's one of the things I'm excited about... The opening isn't about the Cylon's plan anymore (remember how they had a plan), it's about the twelfth. That's a huge factor in where they're going... I think a major focus of this season (and it's been slowly growing since the first ep such that this past one was almost entirely about it) is the seven, and the four, and then when we get the last Cylon, we're going to learn something new that will be insane and stuff is going to start making sense....

But that's just me... The Cylons are a major focus of the now for me...

[horatio616]

I think that's one of the things that's really hooking me about this season... Say what you will about the early days about us not knowing sh*t about the Cylons... but seeing the Basestars and all their little Civil War and everything is freakin one of the hooks of the show right now... I. Love. It.

As for the 12th Cylon, I really think they know who it is and they've known for quite some time. My guess is they came up with it right when they made the decision for the Secret Four.

I'm just intrigued to see what they do with that 12th Cylon... That's one of the things I'm excited about... The opening isn't about the Cylon's plan anymore (remember how they had a plan), it's about the twelfth. That's a huge factor in where they're going... I think a major focus of this season (and it's been slowly growing since the first ep such that this past one was almost entirely about it) is the seven, and the four, and then when we get the last Cylon, we're going to learn something new that will be insane and stuff is going to start making sense....

But that's just me... The Cylons are a major focus of the now for me...


I predict we'll know who it is within the next four or five episodes.

[valoharth]

I'm really not interested in the Cylons other then the Final Five, I more interested in how they will react to the fact that they are Cylons. They really haven't acted yet, maybe the woman is starting to get it but the rest are just so deep in denial that they arn't going anywhere. That may change in the next episode now that Calli is dead.

[gungadin]

I predict we'll know who it is within the next four or five episodes.

My guess is it'll come as the "mid-season cliffhanger..."

[gungadin]

I'm really not interested in the Cylons other then the Final Five, I more interested in how they will react to the fact that they are Cylons. They really haven't acted yet, maybe the woman is starting to get it but the rest are just so deep in denial that they arn't going anywhere. That may change in the next episode now that Calli is dead.

Well the thing that makes the final five interesting is their unwillingness to be Cylons. Anders doesn't want to be one of the five, just like Tigh and Tyrol... They're all trying to live their lives normally... But then you have Tory who's starting to embrace that side of her... I'm sure, like you said, they'll slowly start to come around... But right now they're not to acceptance, which is when things'll really start to break apart...

[xyzzy]

Well the thing that makes the final five interesting is their unwillingness to be Cylons. Anders doesn't want to be one of the five, just like Tigh and Tyrol... They're all trying to live their lives normally... But then you have Tory who's starting to embrace that side of her... I'm sure, like you said, they'll slowly start to come around... But right now they're not to acceptance, which is when things'll really start to break apart...

It's not clear to me that Tory's actions are because she's a Cylon. I read it more that she has a high sense of self-preservation and the hots for the chief. And a flexible morality. These are all things that humans have in spades. No Cylon programming necessary.

[valoharth]

It's not clear to me that Tory's actions are because she's a Cylon. I read it more that she has a high sense of self-preservation and the hots for the chief. And a flexible morality. These are all things that humans have in spades. No Cylon programming necessary.

Well thats true, actually all the Cylons, the skin jobs anyway, have that sense of self preservation. Its on of the key factors for true AI. Its what's happening with the Cylons on the base ships.

What I think Troy is doing is thinking she's a monster because she is a Cylon so she's more apt to do things in the name of self preservation that she might have not done when she thought she was human.

[gungadin]

It's not clear to me that Tory's actions are because she's a Cylon. I read it more that she has a high sense of self-preservation and the hots for the chief. And a flexible morality. These are all things that humans have in spades. No Cylon programming necessary.

I didn't think of it that way, but that makes sense too... And in the way that I kinda wanted to say it without actually saying it or implying it or anything...

[horatio616]

It's not clear to me that Tory's actions are because she's a Cylon. I read it more that she has a high sense of self-preservation and the hots for the chief. And a flexible morality. These are all things that humans have in spades. No Cylon programming necessary.

She's seeing herself as superior to ordinary humans and separate from them.

[horatio616]

I watched Razor last night and HOLY CRAP I loved it! I almost geeked out when I saw those classic Cylon Centurious. For some reason I'm thinking we haven't seen the last of Admiral Cain. The Cylon seemed to hesitate in killing her as a child, even before it was called off. The 12th Cylon perhaps?

[valoharth]

She's seeing herself as superior to ordinary humans and separate from them.

Interesting, I never thought about that.

[xyzzy]

She's seeing herself as superior to ordinary humans and separate from them.

What are you basing that on?

[horatio616]

What are you basing that on?

Just by the casual way she killed Callie. Obviously she no longer gives value to human life. I don't think she values the baby simply because it's a baby, but because it's part Cylon and "more than human."

At one point she's moved to tears by sex with Baltar, but yet takes a life without emotion. She's become the very definition of a malignant narcissist.

[horatio616]

Here are the titles and writers of the first ten episodes. Note the title of episode ten.

1. “He That Believeth in Me” by David Weddle and Bradley Thompson
2. "Six of One" by Michael Angeli
3. “The Ties That Bind” by Michael Taylor
4. "Escape Velocity" by Jane Espenson
5. "The Road Less Travelled " by Mark Verheiden
6. “Faith” by Seamus Kevin Fahey
7. "Guess What's Coming to Dinner" by Michael Angeli
8. "Sine Qua Non" by Michael Taylor
9. "The Hub" by Jane Espenson
10. "Revelations” by Bradley Thompson and David Weddle

[gungadin]

Michael Taylor is like God... Michael Angeli? Not so much...

[dave-accampo]

It's not clear to me that Tory's actions are because she's a Cylon. I read it more that she has a high sense of self-preservation and the hots for the chief. And a flexible morality. These are all things that humans have in spades. No Cylon programming necessary.

I agree with this to some extent. You've got four characters who have just found out their whole lives were a lie. They're all going to react differently. Tigh, for example, is trying his hardest to carry on because his duty is all he knows. However, he has these daydreams that illustrate his greatest fear: betraying Adama. Tory has no deep ties like this. Thus, she's being shown as the first to embrace her "cylonity." I don't know that she's seeing herself as "better" necessarily, but I think she's experimenting with being free of human morality. Sex with Baltar was the first step. See, for a normal woman, having sex for the purpose of pumping someone for information might be repugnant. I think this is the feeling she was dealing with when she was crying. "It should be repugnant, but...well, I'm not human, am I? I'm not bound by this morality. what if I just experience everything as if it were brand new." I think she even says as much when she's talking to the chief.

That's the best bit of writing with these characters. They will all react differently to this revelation. And each reaction defines their character.

[xyzzy]

I agree with this to some extent. You've got four characters who have just found out their whole lives were a lie. They're all going to react differently. Tigh, for example, is trying his hardest to carry on because his duty is all he knows. However, he has these daydreams that illustrate his greatest fear: betraying Adama. Tory has no deep ties like this. Thus, she's being shown as the first to embrace her "cylonity." I don't know that she's seeing herself as "better" necessarily, but I think she's experimenting with being free of human morality. Sex with Baltar was the first step. See, for a normal woman, having sex for the purpose of pumping someone for information might be repugnant. I think this is the feeling she was dealing with when she was crying. "It should be repugnant, but...well, I'm not human, am I? I'm not bound by this morality. what if I just experience everything as if it were brand new." I think she even says as much when she's talking to the chief.

That's the best bit of writing with these characters. They will all react differently to this revelation. And each reaction defines their character.

I'm not sure what you mean by "normal woman," but real live human women have used sex to get what they want throughout history.

[xyzzy]

Just by the casual way she killed Callie. Obviously she no longer gives value to human life. I don't think she values the baby simply because it's a baby, but because it's part Cylon and "more than human."

At one point she's moved to tears by sex with Baltar, but yet takes a life without emotion. She's become the very definition of a malignant narcissist.

You read that scene in a much different way than I did.

This show has never been so simple as to say Cylons = evil or emotionless. Or even that they don't value human life. Clearly, Cylons (or at least the skin jobs) are just as complex and nuanced as humans. So I don't see how you can say X behavior is Cylons and Y behavior is human.

[horatio616]

You read that scene in a much different way than I did.

This show has never been so simple as to say Cylons = evil or emotionless. Or even that they don't value human life. Clearly, Cylons (or at least the skin jobs) are just as complex and nuanced as humans. So I don't see how you can say X behavior is Cylons and Y behavior is human.

I'm not saying she's acting like a Cylon, just not as a human. She found out that she's not who she thought she was, so now she's acting like she's no longer bound by human "rules." She's begun to do things she wouldn't normally have done because now she feels disconnected from her past self.

[horatio616]

I agree with this to some extent. You've got four characters who have just found out their whole lives were a lie. They're all going to react differently. Tigh, for example, is trying his hardest to carry on because his duty is all he knows. However, he has these daydreams that illustrate his greatest fear: betraying Adama. Tory has no deep ties like this. Thus, she's being shown as the first to embrace her "cylonity." I don't know that she's seeing herself as "better" necessarily, but I think she's experimenting with being free of human morality. Sex with Baltar was the first step. See, for a normal woman, having sex for the purpose of pumping someone for information might be repugnant. I think this is the feeling she was dealing with when she was crying. "It should be repugnant, but...well, I'm not human, am I? I'm not bound by this morality. what if I just experience everything as if it were brand new." I think she even says as much when she's talking to the chief.

That's the best bit of writing with these characters. They will all react differently to this revelation. And each reaction defines their character.

You said it much more elegantly than I did.

I think that Tory killed Callie not necessarily to keep their secret, but also because she dared to threated the baby, which she considered "one of her own."

[gungadin]

There's also a possibility (slim, and I don't buy it... but I think I should point it out nonetheless) that Callie threatening the baby could have triggered something in her... Doubtful, but it is possible...

[xyzzy]

You said it much more elegantly than I did.

I think that Tory killed Callie not necessarily to keep their secret, but also because she dared to threated the baby, which she considered "one of her own."

See, I don't think that any of the final 4 identify as Cylons. They all still think of themselves as human. Everythings we've seen so far indicates that these people still think and feel the same way they always have. Tigh, Tyroll, Anders. These guys may be Cylons, but in their hearts they still feel human.

This just says to me that Tory was always capable of these things. She was just never in a situation where she was up against the wall.

[gungadin]

See, I don't think that any of the final 4 identify as Cylons. They all still think of themselves as human. Everythings we've seen so far indicates that these people still think and feel the same way they always have. Tigh, Tyroll, Anders. These guys may be Cylons, but in their hearts they still feel human.

This just says to me that Tory was always capable of these things. She was just never in a situation where she was up against the wall.

I actually really like this explanation a lot... I can't explain why I do, but I really think it's kinda a good way of describing Tory...

[horatio616]

See, I don't think that any of the final 4 identify as Cylons. They all still think of themselves as human. Everythings we've seen so far indicates that these people still think and feel the same way they always have. Tigh, Tyroll, Anders. These guys may be Cylons, but in their hearts they still feel human.

This just says to me that Tory was always capable of these things. She was just never in a situation where she was up against the wall.

She's using this discovery as an excuse to indulge herself. She's justifying the sex and now the murder with the idea that "it's okay, because I'm not one of them anyway. I'm something special."

[xyzzy]

She's using this discovery as an excuse to indulge herself. She's justifying the sex and now the murder with the idea that "it's okay, because I'm not one of them anyway. I'm something special."

Well, anything's possible, but I don't think that there's anything in the text to suggest this.

[valoharth]

Tory was nothing more then a background character for most the show, she didn't even register with me until Crossroads to tell you the truth. When I saw her I had to say "Who the hell is that" I went on IMDB and saw that she had been there.

As for Calli's baby, I'm not so sure it’s the Chiefs. I have nothing to base it upon, but I just have a slight hunch that it might not be his.

[horatio616]

Tory was nothing more then a background character for most the show, she didn't even register with me until Crossroads to tell you the truth. When I saw her I had to say "Who the hell is that" I went on IMDB and saw that she had been there.

As for Calli's baby, I'm not so sure it’s the Chiefs. I have nothing to base it upon, but I just have a slight hunch that it might not be his.

I think she's really sexy. I never noticed her before because they always had her hidden under a business suit. Good idea to utilize her character in this way.

[gungadin]

As for Calli's baby, I'm not so sure it’s the Chiefs. I have nothing to base it upon, but I just have a slight hunch that it might not be his.

I can see why we'd think it wasn't his child... But she was damn sure it was his when she was ready to shoot it out the airlock. If anyone knows who the father is, it'd probably be the mother... I doubt she was sleeping around enough to convince her it's not his...

[xyzzy]

I can see why we'd think it wasn't his child... But she was damn sure it was his when she was ready to shoot it out the airlock. If anyone knows who the father is, it'd probably be the mother... I doubt she was sleeping around enough to convince her it's not his...

I'm not certain that she wanted to kill the baby because it was part Cylon so much as she didn't want to leave it with Tyroll. "protecting" it in that sort of a crazy way. That said, I'm pretty sure it's his kid.

[valoharth]

I can see why we'd think it wasn't his child... But she was damn sure it was his when she was ready to shoot it out the airlock. If anyone knows who the father is, it'd probably be the mother... I doubt she was sleeping around enough to convince her it's not his...

Well, I can see that two ways the way you said it and this way, Would you want your baby with a monster, if the monster thinks it's his? She could have been doing it because she didn't want the child to be in his hands. She was protecting it. Maybe she didn't know for positive it was his or not.

Going to go off on a tangent here that kind of corlates with what’s being talked about. One of the things I like about this show, the characters act human. Not just what we perceive as human. It’s common in serialized drama to hear a fan say "That’s totally out of character" when ever a character does something that you don't agree with. I'm sure there was uproar about Calli trying to jettison her and the baby out into space. The fact that she is doing something out of character makes her more human, its what makes the show so good. The only other shows I can think of who do it well is Lost and Buffy/Angel.

[horatio616]

As for Calli's baby, I'm not so sure it’s the Chiefs. I have nothing to base it upon, but I just have a slight hunch that it might not be his.

I was thinking the same thing. I've heard that Helo and Sharon's baby has a "destiny" but not much about Chief's.

[valoharth]

I was thinking the same thing. I've heard that Helo and Sharon's baby has a "destiny" but not much about Chief's.

Oh... interesting thought, if it is the Chiefs baby, maybe it has the destiny and not Helo's... just a thought.

[gungadin]

Or even more mindblowing? What if they come together and have the destiny in tandem?

[horatio616]

Oh... interesting thought, if it is the Chiefs baby, maybe it has the destiny and not Helo's... just a thought.

Or maybe they both have destinies, but one is with the humans and the other's is with the Cylons...

[gungadin]

Or maybe they both have destinies, but one is with the humans and the other's is with the Cylons...

I like your one better... That's so fascinating....

[valoharth]

Or maybe they both have destinies, but one is with the humans and the other's is with the Cylons...

Thats just the plot of Nightwatch, maybe thats it. BGS is the Eragon of TV? :P

[horatio616]

Thats just the plot of Nightwatch, maybe thats it. BGS is the Eragon of TV? :P

You were able to discern the plot of Nightwatch? You're a better man than I! ;)

[gungadin]

Thats just the plot of Nightwatch, maybe thats it. BGS is the Eragon of TV? :P

Take it back. That book should never be mentioned ever! Especially not here!!!

[valoharth]

Take it back. That book should never be mentioned ever! Especially not here!!!

Buwhahahahaha ;)

The Creator of Eragon "So I asked myself: How can I make Star Wars cooler? I should put a dragon in it!"
Book publishing company "I don't know, we need something more to sell that book"
The Creator of Eragon "Did I mention I was 16 when I wrote it?"

[gungadin]

Buwhahahahaha ;)

You bastard... I hate that series... And then I read it... And then they announced there's going to be a fourth book because the author couldn't shorten his writing to three books...

I hate that guy... and his stupid book series...

[valoharth]

You bastard... I hate that series... And then I read it... And then they announced there's going to be a fourth book because the author couldn't shorten his writing to three books...

I hate that guy... and his stupid book series...

Really? they are making a fourth book... wow. That upsets me.

[gungadin]

Really? they are making a fourth book... wow. That upsets me.

I know? How much can you really stretch out Return of the Jedi, anyways? Talk about damn prolific... They announced the third book and he made a short video that went up on Amazon with him being tooltastic and talking about him and what he wants... Freakin loser....

[jmstump]

okay after about two weeks, I am all caught up. I've seen all the way up to the most recent episodes and even Razor. I can't wait for the next episode and have no idea why I never watched this show before

[gungadin]

okay after about two weeks, I am all caught up. I've seen all the way up to the most recent episodes and even Razor. I can't wait for the next episode and have no idea why I never watched this show before

Kudos... It's amazing how good it is, neh?

[horatio616]

Kudos... It's amazing how good it is, neh?

I'm obsessed. It's odd and disturbing.

[valoharth]

I'm obsessed. It's odd and disturbing.

Obsessed? Does this mean you have an alter to Starbuck in your garage?

[horatio616]

Obsessed? Does this mean you have an alter to Starbuck in your garage?

I don't really find her attractive. I like Sharon and Six (but she needs to eat more biscuits) and Tory.

[jmstump]

Obsessed? Does this mean you have an alter to Starbuck in your garage?

I swear I don't know what you are talking about :rolleyes:

[dave-accampo]

I'm not sure what you mean by "normal woman," but real live human women have used sex to get what they want throughout history.

oh you lawyers do love your semantics. ;)

Perhaps better put: many modern human women struggle with the concept of using sex as a tool. Certainly not all women; I'm generalizing here. I know many who do deal with keeping their "dignity" while being objectified by men.

Now you learn: you're not even human.

This may change the equation for you.

This is what I see happening in this scenario.

[xyzzy]

oh you lawyers do love your semantics. ;)

Perhaps better put: many modern human women struggle with the concept of using sex as a tool. Certainly not all women; I'm generalizing here. I know many who do deal with keeping their "dignity" while being objectified by men.

Now you learn: you're not even human.

This may change the equation for you.

This is what I see happening in this scenario.

I get that. All I'm saying is that everything that she's done is well within the bounds of human behavior. Particularly the behavior of a human who is protecting a life and death secret. I don't see the need to ascribe her behavior to Cylon programming.

[dave-accampo]

I get that. All I'm saying is that everything that she's done is well within the bounds of human behavior. Particularly the behavior of a human who is protecting a life and death secret. I don't see the need to ascribe her behavior to Cylon programming.
ah, well -- that may be because I wasn't ascribing her behavior to Cylon programming. I was taking the scene from a human standpoint. Which is what it was.

[conorkilpatrick]

From the looks of tonight's preview it would seem that Tory is fully embracing her cylonitude.

[dave-accampo]

I should add to my previous post about Tory and Cylonity (I was posting from phone while at a conference, so it was difficult) .

When I say that her conflict was a human one, I mean that I don't think there's any programming superseding her normal feelings. The only things she's dealing with, to me, are the range of reactions that a human being might feel if one found out their whole life was a lie. I say this because I think the central conceit of the show is that the evolved cylons really are human. Maybe not from the same source, but alive nonetheless.

So, maybe I should say it this way: the realization by the four that they are Cylons is what is causing all the crazy behavior right now, not the actual "cylonity" itself.

[xyzzy]

I should add to my previous post about Tory and Cylonity (I was posting from phone while at a conference, so it was difficult) .

When I say that her conflict was a human one, I mean that I don't think there's any programming superseding her normal feelings. The only things she's dealing with, to me, are the range of reactions that a human being might feel if one found out their whole life was a lie. I say this because I think the central conceit of the show is that the evolved cylons really are human. Maybe not from the same source, but alive nonetheless.

So, maybe I should say it this way: the realization by the four that they are Cylons is what is causing all the crazy behavior right now, not the actual "cylonity" itself.

Agreed.

[horatio616]

They've turned Apollo into Baltar's bitch. Ugh. I hope he gets shot in the head.

Tory's gotten a little full of herself, hasn't she?

[gungadin]

They've turned Apollo into Baltar's bitch. Ugh. I hope he gets shot in the head.

This one, I don't agree with. Once again, I think Apollo's just doing what he feels is right... He's demanding Baltar be treated fairly... I don't see it as preferential treatment at all....

[horatio616]

This one, I don't agree with. Once again, I think Apollo's just doing what he feels is right... He's demanding Baltar be treated fairly... I don't see it as preferential treatment at all....

That's nice during peacetime, but when there are only 30,000 people left... Let's just say I wouldn't want him answering the red phone at 3 AM.

He was a bad-ass pilot. Now he's Baltar's errand boy. De-evolution of character.

[conorkilpatrick]

I love where they've taken Lee. He rules as the One Good Man Left.

[gungadin]

That's nice during peacetime, but when there are only 30,000 people left... Let's just say I wouldn't want him answering the red phone at 3 AM.

He was a bad-ass pilot. Now he's Baltar's errand boy. De-evolution of character.

But did Baltar ask him to do that? Lee saw a problem and did his best to fix it. I'm with Conor, this is Lee just not sacrificing his humanity for a vendetta, which is what Roslin was doing when she was talking about how Baltar was ruining the world...

[horatio616]

But did Baltar ask him to do that? Lee saw a problem and did his best to fix it. I'm with Conor, this is Lee just not sacrificing his humanity for a vendetta, which is what Roslin was doing when she was talking about how Baltar was ruining the world...

He's gone from fighter pilot to civil rights advocate. Not too effective when Cylons are shooting nukes at you. Sometimes sacrificing your humanity is worth it. Saving the human race takes precedence.

[conorkilpatrick]

He's gone from fighter pilot to civil rights advocate.

They're not mutually exclusive.

[xyzzy]

That's nice during peacetime, but when there are only 30,000 people left... Let's just say I wouldn't want him answering the red phone at 3 AM.

He was a bad-ass pilot. Now he's Baltar's errand boy. De-evolution of character.

Baltar? Zarek's errand boy, maybe, but I don't even think that's quite right.

Plus, when they needed every single person up in the air, he was there.

The truth is that it's not enough for humanity just to be saved. It has to be worth saving, and that's what he's fighting for now.

[gungadin]

Baltar? Zarek's errand boy, maybe, but I don't even think that's quite right.

I'll disco to that... But I think Zarek's just providing a balance to the typical whatever Roslin was telling him (not that all of it was bad... just that it was from one source and only one source)

The truth is that it's not enough for humanity just to be saved. It has to be worth saving, and that's what he's fighting for now.

I didn't even contemplate this, but you saying makes me just love that I now think about it... Kudos, my friend... Great line.

[xyzzy]

I didn't even contemplate this, but you saying makes me just love that I now think about it... Kudos, my friend... Great line.

I can't really take credit. It's basically what Admiral Adama says in one of his heart-to-hearts with Boomer.

[xyzzy]

He's gone from fighter pilot to civil rights advocate. Not too effective when Cylons are shooting nukes at you. Sometimes sacrificing your humanity is worth it. Saving the human race takes precedence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrrhic_victory

[horatio616]

Of course, I'm expecting that the writers are setting up Apollo as the hero and he won't have to face the consequences of allowing a cultist and traitor like Baltar to build a following. Apollo without a doubt is the leader of the future, but I don't find fault with Roslin's methods given the extreme circumstances.

[horatio616]

So do you think Tigh will grow his eye back then continue to have to hide it to keep his secret?

[humphrey-lee]

Nothing to do with nothing, but I got to experience The Chief singing "New York, New York" karaoke style last night at the hotel bar for PittCon. It was entertainingly random.

[horatio616]

Nothing to do with nothing, but I got to experience The Chief singing "New York, New York" karaoke style last night at the hotel bar for PittCon. It was entertainingly random.

Pics???

[humphrey-lee]

It was kind of dark and I only had a camera phone, but I lightened it a little on Photobucket.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y246/HumphreyLee/Chief-1.jpg

[xyzzy]

Of course, I'm expecting that the writers are setting up Apollo as the hero and he won't have to face the consequences of allowing a cultist and traitor like Baltar to build a following. Apollo without a doubt is the leader of the future, but I don't find fault with Roslin's methods given the extreme circumstances.

You a big Gitmo fan?

[horatio616]

You a big Gitmo fan?

No but we're talking the last 30,000 people alive here. Survival takes precedence at this point. Allowing a traitor like Baltar to build his cult as the human race stands at the verge of extinction is stupid. Look what 9-11 did to our free society. Imagine what near extinction would do to it. I think Apollo's role as a civil rights leader comes off as unrealistic under the circumstances and also naive and dangerous.