Noobish Q: Which big DC or Marvel universe mash-up is a must read?

[adeepercut2k]

So if you wanted to read 1 or 2 big universe changing story lines of all time, which one would it be...and help me figure out which ones qualify or which ones need to be added to the list.

Secret Wars?

Civil War

Crisis on Infinite Earths

Infinite Crisis
52
1 year later - or all three?

From previous posts, it seems most agree that Infinite Crisis is the most recent one that deserves a read (more specifically 52) because of both quality and the degree of change in the DC Universe. What about a classic mash-up? Anything I'm missing. And I'm looking for biggest impact as well as good storytelling. :) In other words, I don't want to finish it and it ends with Batman in the shower and Robin in bed waking up from a dream. LOL. Go Dallas.

[jon_samuelson]

Geez, coming from my own point of view...

Secret Wars - Not important for todays stories at all really. Also the style of writing is agaonizingly dated. It's got a couple of classic moments, but it's really not that good.

Civil War - Ask someone else, I couldn't give a shit about that crossover. Seemed kind of contrived, and I hate, hate, hate Mark Millar's writing.

Crisis on Infinite Earths - Falls into a bit of the same camp as Secret Wars in the sense that the style of writing is agonizingly dated and corny. However, unlike Secret Wars, Crisis is pretty connected to the current happenings of the DCU. So while I can't say I liked it very much it DOES seem to be important.

Infinite Crisis - Didn't read it, but I think it gets pretty universally panned. Someone else should weigh in on this one. I could be wrong, I'm thinking of the Meltzer penned story.

52 - Again, didn't read it, but 52 seems to have been generally very well liked, and is a cornerstone of the current goings on of the DCU.

1 Year Later - It should be getting obvious, but I'm pretty new to DC, and so didn't read this either. Again though I seem to remember having heard that these stories were far from universally loved.

I think if you want impact, and good storytellling that you might as well just start now reading in both the Marvel and DC universes. Secret Invasion has a lot of potential in my opinion, and Final Crisis is going to be written by a guy (Grant Morrison) who most peope, other than me, seem to love.

[mikegraham6]

52 is one of the best mainstream comic series to come out in the past 5 years, buy it

[jon_samuelson]

Infinite Crisis - Didn't read it, but I think it gets pretty universally panned. Someone else should weigh in on this one. I could be wrong, I'm thinking of the Meltzer penned story.

Nope I was wrong. I was thinking of Identity Crisis, which was well reviled. Infinite Crisis was well received, and written by Geoff Johns, for whom I have an uncomfortable level of affection.

Which reminds me... You could read Green Lantern. Green Lantern: Rebirth, and the current GL series up through and including the Sinestro Corps war, are absolutely brilliant comics in my opinion. There's a lot there to read, seeds were planted for the Sinestro Corps war all along, building up to that excellent story, and seeds are being planted now for the Blackest Night story line coming next summer. It kicks unholy ass.

In the same vain try out Annihilation, and Annihilation: Conquest from Marvel.

[conorkilpatrick]

Infinite Crisis - Didn't read it, but I think it gets pretty universally panned. Someone else should weigh in on this one. I could be wrong, I'm thinking of the Meltzer penned story.

Meltzer wrote Identity Crisis which was almost universally praised. Geoff Johns wrote Infinite Crisis, the official sequel to Crisis on Infinite Earths, that people either really liked or were confused by,

[conorkilpatrick]

I was thinking of Identity Crisis, which was well reviled.

I don't think so.

[meccaed]

There's no denying Identity Crisis was a good story, but its not going to give them the "degree of change in the DC universe" s/he's looking for.

[jon_samuelson]

To be as vague as possible... wasn't Identity Crisis the one with the whole mind wiping thing? I thought people LOATHED that storyline...?

[horatio616]

To be as vague as possible... wasn't Identity Crisis the one with the whole mind wiping thing? I thought people LOATHED that storyline...?

I personally loathed it but overall I think it was well received.

[conorkilpatrick]

To be as vague as possible... wasn't Identity Crisis the one with the whole mind wiping thing? I thought people LOATHED that storyline...?

It was and no they didn't. Well, some did of course. Many traditionalists didn't like the introduction of real world danger into the DCU, but it was mostly very well received.

[jon_samuelson]

Obviously I'm speaking from a position of complete and utter ignorance, but I'm certain that I've heard on other podcasts (Comic Geek Speak maybe?) that those guys were pretty universal in their opinion of "If I could wipe one story completely out of continuity it would be ______ Crisis (whichever one had the mindwiping)"

Obviously my opinion ain't worth shit in this regard though, as I didn't read either one of them. But I stand by my opinion of Secret Wars, and Crisis on Infinite Earths though.

[adeepercut2k]

That's right, Annihilation and Identity Crisis. I forgot about those two.

The Green Lantern stuff I'm definitely going to get into. I picked up Adams/O'Neill's GL/GA for some historical reference after I read New Frontier. And I've been going back to some of the ifanboy pods and heard that Winick is doing good work on Green Arrow.

I'll try out the Infinite Crisis series as well as Annhilation. Thanks.

[jon_samuelson]

I loved the first Annihilation run. I haven't read the second one yet, because I wanted to wait for it in trades. I'm kind of a geek for the Marvel cosmic stuff, so perhaps I'm predisposed to like Annihilation though. I think my cosmic geekery is also why I'm enjoying Green Lantern so much, but either way it's good.

[adeepercut2k]

There's no denying Identity Crisis was a good story, but its not going to give them the "degree of change in the DC universe" s/he's looking for.That's cool though. If it was well reviewed I'll give it a go. According to wiki it's only a 7 issue read and it leads into Infinite Crisis. I was hoping either secret wars or crisis on infinite earths was well reviewed. I've been in a classic mode lately. But at the same time I'm trying to get up to date. Maybe I'll pick up Dark Phoenix Saga again or Miller's Daredevil. :)

[horatio616]

I loved the first Annihilation run. I haven't read the second one yet, because I wanted to wait for it in trades. I'm kind of a geek for the Marvel cosmic stuff, so perhaps I'm predisposed to like Annihilation though. I think my cosmic geekery is also why I'm enjoying Green Lantern so much, but either way it's good.

I read the Starlord series. His is one of my favorite character designs.

http://sixmorevodka.com/uploads/Starlord.jpg

[adeepercut2k]

I loved the first Annihilation run. I haven't read the second one yet, because I wanted to wait for it in trades. I'm kind of a geek for the Marvel cosmic stuff, so perhaps I'm predisposed to like Annihilation though. I think my cosmic geekery is also why I'm enjoying Green Lantern so much, but either way it's good.I didn't get into the cosmic stuff until recently. I picked up some old Silver Surfer and thumbed through a couple and loved it. Last time I was actively reading comics was early 90's and I was all about Batman and x-men. I didn't mind the genetic stuff but hated the cosmic stuff. Now I can't wait to get into some GL story lines.

[jon_samuelson]

I'm actually in the middle of my ulitmate moment of geekdom right now. I just bought the first 50 issues of the late 80's Silver Surfer run on eBay, and I'm going to send them away to a bindery to have them put into a couple of hardcover volumes.

Edit: Yeah, that Starlord design is just awesome. His design alone made it hard for me to stave of buying the issues while waiting for the trades.

[paper]

Identity Crisis is fantastic. One of my favorites.

[esophagus]

Identity Crisis is fantastic. One of my favorites.What he said.

[jon_samuelson]

I stand corrected.

[labor_days]

Conor's posts very OTM in this thread.

Identity Crisis was brilliant. IC was very dense and relied on many tie-ins to get the full picture.

You want Civil War over at Marvel and Infinite Crisis/52 over at DC. Those bring you up to speed on the modern Big 2 universes pretty well. There is more to read, of course, but it depends on how far back you want to go and the cash burning a hole in your pocket.

[cenquist]

I wouldn't call it one of my favorites but it is a damn good read.

[xyzzy]

Of the ones I've read:

Civil War - Starts strong, ends weak. Looks great throughout. Basically the standard civil rights vs. security tension played out in the Marvel U.

Crisis on Infinite Earths - Historically significant, but a narrative mess. Simply was not designed to work as a stand-alone trade paperback.

Infinite Crisis - In my opinion, only for the DC hardcore. I found the whole thing to be a bit confusing. Better than CoIE, but still not a stand-alone story, really.

Identity Crisis - Loved it. I was hooked into the DC universe after reading this murder mystery. I dropped out after Infinite Crisis.

[jon_samuelson]

Damn it. Because of the general vitriol heaped my way based on my assumption that Identity Crisis was generally loathed, I went back and looked through my long boxes. I vaguely thought I may have bought some of it, and I did, but I don't have the whole thing. My pocket book can't afford this brow beating.

[adeepercut2k]

Damn it. Because of the general vitriol heaped my way based on my assumption that Identity Crisis was generally loathed, I went back and looked through my long boxes. I vaguely thought I may have bought some of it, and I did, but I don't have the whole thing. My pocket book can't afford this brow beating.I hear your women lamenting. :D
But seriously, I totally forgot about Identity Crisis.
I completely read past it in wikipedia. But now we have something good to read. :)

[jmstump]

I was a big fan of Infinite Crisis and I didn't read all of the crazy tie ins and was not all that confuzzled about it. Hands down had one of my favorite Superboy moments ever. They also recently released it in trade (at least it's the first time I saw it the other day) and I think it even includes some tie ins.

If you want to get one of the tie ins for Infinite Crisis, Villains United was awesome.

Civil War - Hated it, one of the major events in it has already been retconned. Figures, wait didn't Quesada say Marvel doesn't retcon in an interview?

Identity Crisis was good. I enjoyed parts of it and some of the reveals, but have to go so far to say that I look back on it and don't think it's all that fantastic. Biggest argument against is that it allowed Meltzer to write more for DC. Everything else by him has been either bad or confusing.

52 is really good, not much is needed to be said in it's defense.

Also Sinestro Corp. Wars since you're looking at Green Lantern. Awesomefantanriffic.

[humphrey-lee]

Crisis on Infinite Earths and Identity Crisis are truly and honestly the only ones I'd ever recommend. Secret Invasion looks like it might be worthy, but all of these things start off with good potential, it's just most of them completely fall on their faces by the mid-way point.

[wade-wilson]

@ adeepercut2k -- Out of the books you listed, I would recommend Infinite Crisis.

[mikegraham6]

The OMAC Project was the best of the Infinite Crisis tie ins, that's some Greg Rucka goodness right there.

adeepercut2k - your best bet is to start of with Identity crisis. As long as you know that there are two flashes (Barry Allen and Wally West), it should all make sense. In all honesty, if you're a DC noob you should avoid Infinite Crisis, it won't make much sense since there is a lot of inside info you need to know. Plus if you just skip right into 52 you don't really need to know about Infinite Crisis anyway. You may not fully understand EVERYTHING that's happening in 52 (if you are indeed new to DC) but just roll with it. It read much more like a novel than a comic and hits it's climax halfway through book 3 (there are 4 volumes). it's worth working your way through, trust me.

[six-gun]

The OMAC Project was the best of the Infinite Crisis tie ins, that's some Greg Rucka goodness right there.


Absofreakinglutely

[labor_days]

You dudes should have read Villains United. My favorite of the IC tie-ins.

[mikegraham6]

You dudes should have read Villains United. My favorite of the IC tie-ins.
I did, it was good, but i enjoyed OMAC better. it was epic

EDIT: only one i didn't read was Rann/Thanagar, im not a big fan of space operas

[labor_days]

I read Rann/Thanagar well after IC was over. And wish I had read it when it came out. It's actualy pretty fun and fills you in on all the stuff Luthor & Superboy did to create the rift in space so Luthor could mash up the universe.

Yeah, that really is the dig with IC. The main book itself is pretty simple in plotting, but the overall story of IC was spread out in all these mini-events. It's kinda impressive how far reaching IC was and they pulled it off pretty well. Considering it was the biggest reboot since Crisis on Infinite Earths.

Geoff Johns, you mad genius. I love you.

[jmstump]

You dudes should have read Villains United. My favorite of the IC tie-ins.

I agree I like Villains United best, funny thing is I bought it because all the promos had Deathstroke on the cover. After i read the first issue I had forgot that the whole reason I bought the book for, Deathstroke, was barely in the issue.

[mikegraham6]

the followup, Secret Six: not so good

[jmstump]

the followup, Secret Six: not so good

I actually liked the follow up too, the art was horrible though.

[labor_days]

I'm down with Secret Six. DC keep promising a follow up is coming.

What the fuck? I am waiting.

[mikegraham6]

i'd say it wasn't bad, but it wasn't as good as the original. I think i may have enjoyed far more had i read it in trade. i couldn't remember what had happened from issue to issue

[esophagus]

You dudes should have read Villains United. My favorite of the IC tie-ins.Loved that book. I was talking so fast Gail Simone couldn't make out my praises at Calgary Con last year. Was probably my favorite tie-in, as well.

[wade-wilson]

I liked both Villains United and Secret Six alot!

If they put it out as an ongoing title, I'd buy it.

[neoapocalypse]

My two bucks (hey! inflation!)
DC: Crisis on Infinite Earths is my all-time favorite crossover epic ever

Identity Crisis: definitely a different feel, but well written

Infinite Crisis/52: took some b-list characters that some people had forgotten about and made them interesting again, did a bit of backpedalling of the whole 'one universe' thing.

DC: One Million: I really enjoyed this. As I recall it kind of spiralled out of Morrison's run on JLA.

Tangent Comics: The Tangent comics were all really fresh feeling and I'm glad they're coming back, at least temporarily.

Marvel:
Secret War: Did have a couple historically important moments but the art is just down right bad. I went back and re-read it last year after having last read the individual issues when they came out and it just does not hold up.

Infinity Gauntlet: It's maybe a bit over-the-top and dated to the 90's, but really everything on this list either is or will be dated at one point. This was truly epic and awesome.

Age of Apocalypse: If you enjoy X-Men this is the one to get. Interesting re-imaginings and some of the changes wrought here have been kept.

Onslaught/Heroes Reborn: If you enjoy the Liefeld/Lee/McFarlane type stuff then you'll enjoy this.

Annihilation: I'm a fan of space operas and this was rather well done.

Civil War: I liked it though I can see how some people would think some of the writing's a little poor. The Death of Captain America follow-up issues were very strong.

Avengers Disassembled was really strong.

I'm loving the Secret Invasion so far!