Yay! Dr. Kiki talking about earbuds!

[SomeAudioGuy]

Please please PLEASE discuss how awful most earbuds can be for you!
I'm an audio engineer, and every time I see (and hear for that matter) someone rocking their white earbuds I cringe. What's most frustrating is how few people realize the continuous damage they're doing.
I've written about it before (http://someaudioguy.blogspot.com/search/label/earbuds), but something tells me you might be a bit higher profile :D, LOL...

[bayareaking510]

Are headphones any better than earbuds?

[DamianVonBarone]

Please please PLEASE discuss how awful most earbuds can be for you!
I'm an audio engineer, and every time I see (and hear for that matter) someone rocking their white earbuds I cringe. What's most frustrating is how few people realize the continuous damage they're doing.
I've written about it before (http://someaudioguy.blogspot.com/search/label/earbuds), but something tells me you might be a bit higher profile :D, LOL...

The alternative being...
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/8387/henrylolzs3de31ny6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[SomeAudioGuy]

LOL!
Ghetto blaster FTW!

I guess I should clarify. It's not that earbuds themsleves are bad for you, it's how we use them that's the problem.
In the past there has always been a limit to how much we can bombard our ears with directly. A tape would have to be flipped, a cd would be over in under an hour, double A batteries would run out, something would prevent you from being able to saturate your ears for too long. Now with mp3 players (with built in, all day lasting batteries) there's no reason not to soak your ears in sound all day and all night.

Earbuds (the cheap kind that normally come with mp3 players) SUCK for this kind use. They don't create ANY seal around the outside of the ear, so your music is competing with the noise in your environment. The only way to combat that is to turn the volume up higher. The louder the volume, the less time you have before you're doing subtle (but possibly permanent) damage to your hearing.

The alternative is to use ANYTHING with some kind of noise reduction. I like inner-aural earbuds (the kind with rubber or foam that go INSIDE your ear canal), but some people think they're uncomfortable. You could also check out headphones that have active noise removal (but that might mean keeping some batteries on hand). Regardless, if you can strip out the noise of your surrounding environment, then you can listen to your music at a lower volume, without sacrificing the quality of music (in fact, it'll probably sound better for it), which should give you more listening time before you exhaust your ears.

At the turn of the millenium, white earbuds were a fashion statement.
Now?
Toss em. They're crap.

[DamianVonBarone]

or how about these....
http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/934/rollyu8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Kidding - i see your point - Just look at every musician from the 70's - all deaf - and like little H.R. in "There wiil be blood"

[SomeAudioGuy]

HoLy cRaP!!!
I NEED those...

The musician example is perfect. I was that huge nerd that would wear earplugs to raves...

[Kronos6948]

I think a bigger issue (albeit not a health concern) for me is the actual quality of sound that all different types of headphones/earbuds claim.

Most say on their boxes that their frequency response is 20-20,000 MHz. But, what they don't tell you is where they roll off, and where the peaks are. Earbuds seem to focus most of their sound in the higher frequency range, so I usually don't get them. I've always been the guy with the big headphones, simply because I really like good clarity of sound when I'm listening to music.

Maybe you can explain something to me, SomeAudioGuy...

Why is it that a lot of music sounds better (IMO) cranked? I'm not overdriving my speakers, so they're not clipping or anything like that, so why does it sound better to me?

[renehasp]

I think a bigger issue (albeit not a health concern) for me is the actual quality of sound that all different types of headphones/earbuds claim.

Most say on their boxes that their frequency response is 20-20,000 MHz. But, what they don't tell you is where they roll off, and where the peaks are. Earbuds seem to focus most of their sound in the higher frequency range, so I usually don't get them. I've always been the guy with the big headphones, simply because I really like good clarity of sound when I'm listening to music.

Maybe you can explain something to me, SomeAudioGuy...

Why is it that a lot of music sounds better (IMO) cranked? I'm not overdriving my speakers, so they're not clipping or anything like that, so why does it sound better to me?

I am on the market for a good pair, I would love to get some tips on what to get. I did buy a couple of pairs buy they all seem cheap. I'm scared to shell out the big bucks for something I know nothing about.

-Rene

[Kronos6948]

I am on the market for a good pair, I would love to get some tips on what to get. I did buy a couple of pairs buy they all seem cheap. I'm scared to shell out the big bucks for something I know nothing about.

-Rene


These (http://reviews.cnet.com/headphones/sony-mdr-xd200-headphones/4505-7877_7-31298963.html) are my current headphones. Fantastically cheap for the sound quality you get, IMO. I've never really taken them off of the "Movie" sound mode, because I prefer the extra bass.

[SomeAudioGuy]

Actually those Sonys are pretty decent.
I don't really listen to music (for fun) with cans, but I do use a pair of Sennheiser HD25-1 II (http://astore.amazon.com/theramofsomau-20/detail/B000TDZOXG/103-9360098-5352630) for recording. They're the only closed ear cans I really like. The bass is present but not too muddy. For cans that rest ON your ears, they do a surprisingly good job of blocking background noise.
A few of my friends are using the Bose Quiet Comfort 2, and say they're fantastic. I can't tell if they really sound good, or were really expensive so they "sound good". Truthfully though they can't be bad, I'm just not sold on how expensive they are.
When I listen to music I use a pair of Sennheiser CX300's (http://astore.amazon.com/theramofsomau-20/detail/B000E1FYQA/103-9360098-5352630). I really do like inner-aurals. Good thick bass, really accurate mids, and nice present highs that aren't too piercing or tinny. And at $50 I think they do a really decent job of competing with VModa's, Eties, and others costing more than twice as much.

[SomeAudioGuy]

I think a bigger issue (albeit not a health concern) for me is the actual quality of sound that all different types of headphones/earbuds claim.

Most say on their boxes that their frequency response is 20-20,000 MHz. But, what they don't tell you is where they roll off, and where the peaks are. Earbuds seem to focus most of their sound in the higher frequency range, so I usually don't get them. I've always been the guy with the big headphones, simply because I really like good clarity of sound when I'm listening to music.

Maybe you can explain something to me, SomeAudioGuy...

Why is it that a lot of music sounds better (IMO) cranked? I'm not overdriving my speakers, so they're not clipping or anything like that, so why does it sound better to me?

Yeah that can be frustrating. I think frequency response is a good place to start, but it's just that, the beginning.
I don't think earbuds are designed to accent the upper end of EQ, I think they just happen to emphasis that end of audio spectrum because they're so small. Bass needs something to bounce around in, and with no seal around the ear canal, any bass generated is leaking right out. It's one of the reasons I like inner-aurals to regular earbuds. Seal that ear up, and the bass just bounces around in there.
I find it frustrating that most people wont invest $50 for headphones when they're shelling out $250+ for the MP3 player. I might start recommending the Zune 80GB, just because it comes with a pair of VModa knock offs...

As for cranking your tunes, well Roger Waters put it best:
"Why does it have to be so loud?" a TV interviewer once asked of Pink Floyd's Roger Waters. "It doesn't have to be loud." came the answer. "We just like it loud."
I can't really say there's a good aesthetic reason for it. There is a difference between overdriving your speakers and just plain driving your speakers. It's why amp selection can be so important. When you're getting the full range of motion on that speaker cone, you'll be able to hear the full range of sound that speaker can generate.
I can blather on about technical crap, driving your speakers, gain and output, make analogies to things like the recording proximity effect and how it affects the ear, but at the end of the day it's all going to come down to personal preferences.
I think most people prefer a rich full music listening experience, just some people's tolerances are higher than others.
My ears are overloaded pretty easily (I can just barely hold conversations in noisy restaurants), and anything above 60% on my nano is physically painful. I spend a lot of time normalizing my music by hand, just to make sure I'm not caught by surprise with a sudden increase in volume.

I guess it's a good thing I stumbled on to recording...

[Kronos6948]

...some great info...


You know what? I StumbledUpon your site quite a while back. I enjoy reading it. It's pretty informative! I didn't realize it until I clicked the link in your sig.

When it comes to listening to music and sensitivity, it all depends on the music for me. I can't listen to some NIN really loud, since the way Trent tends to produce some stuff, the dynamics get really loud and focused in the mid highs, which tends to cut through me like a knife.

I do have a bit of a higher tolerance though. I grew up in a loud household with loud neighbors. Also, I had a bit of an accident at a GWAR show here in Philly. Back when I was around 19, I managed to make it to the front of the stage before the show started. Well, at a GWAR show, the people on the floor tend to move like an ocean here in Philly (don't know about the other places they play). Well, at the beginning of their set at the Trocadero, I managed to get pushed right next to their PA cabinets (which used to be at the corners of the stage). My right side of my head was practically in the trumpet part of the midrange cone enclosure for around 4 songs, and I lost some of my hearing in my right ear. I can still hear out of it, it's just that the hearing's a bit quieter.

Since you do your own recording, I'd like some advice, if you'll give it. I've recently started doing my band's mixing and mastering to save some money, but I'm also looking to do the recording through my guitarist's computer (I'm using his since we practice at his house). Right now, I can't afford to get the interface I'd like to get (the M-Audio Delta 1010), and I was wondering if I got 2 of the Delta 1010LT's, could they be daisy chained so that I'd have enough recording inputs for the drums? If not, what would you recommend?

[SomeAudioGuy]

Ok, multiple interfaces are kinda tricky.
I'm a HUGE fan of M-Audio gear, but being so, I'll be the first to say that their drivers are kinda twitchy. If the software decides it just doesn't like your hardware setup, then it just wont work (gross over simplification, but you know what I mean). Gear in this mid-range suffers from poor support as well. They can help you troubleshoot and reload drivers, but anything more advanced (like resolving conflicts from multiple PCI interfaces), and you're kinda on your own (but that's true of most manufacturers these days).

I don't know that I can really recommend multiple interfaces. I've been having great luck (knocks on wood) with M-Audio's most recent firewire driver, as I'm now able to use both my NRV10 and FW410 at the same time, but I'm not entirely convinced that this isn't a happy accident. Especially as there is NO official support for anything like this on any of their forums, they wont actually list the improvements made in this latest driver, and none of their tech support people seem to know what I'm talking about.

If you're needing that many inputs simultaneously, you might want to consider a Mixer/Soundcard hybrid. Avoid the Alesis, and check out a Mackie Onyx (with Firewire card - a little pricey, only returns stereo, but it's a Mackie).
If you want something more "budget", you could look at a Phonic Helix MkII. They make a 24 input over firewire for $750. I haven't used one, and reviews are hot and cold, love it or hate it. I think part of the problem might be inconsistencies in Chinese manufacturing (low QA), but the people that have them running seem to love them.

Oh, and thanks for checking the blog out!

[Kronos6948]

Ok, multiple interfaces are kinda tricky.
I'm a HUGE fan of M-Audio gear, but being so, I'll be the first to say that their drivers are kinda twitchy. If the software decides it just doesn't like your hardware setup, then it just wont work (gross over simplification, but you know what I mean). Gear in this mid-range suffers from poor support as well. They can help you troubleshoot and reload drivers, but anything more advanced (like resolving conflicts from multiple PCI interfaces), and you're kinda on your own (but that's true of most manufacturers these days).

I don't know that I can really recommend multiple interfaces. I've been having great luck (knocks on wood) with M-Audio's most recent firewire driver, as I'm now able to use both my NRV10 and FW410 at the same time, but I'm not entirely convinced that this isn't a happy accident. Especially as there is NO official support for anything like this on any of their forums, they wont actually list the improvements made in this latest driver, and none of their tech support people seem to know what I'm talking about.

If you're needing that many inputs simultaneously, you might want to consider a Mixer/Soundcard hybrid. Avoid the Alesis, and check out a Mackie Onyx (with Firewire card - a little pricey, only returns stereo, but it's a Mackie).
If you want something more "budget", you could look at a Phonic Helix MkII. They make a 24 input over firewire for $750. I haven't used one, and reviews are hot and cold, love it or hate it. I think part of the problem might be inconsistencies in Chinese manufacturing (low QA), but the people that have them running seem to love them.

Oh, and thanks for checking the blog out!

$750 is way out of price range. The M-Audio Delta 1010 is a rackmount, 10 input computer capable interface, and that runs about $550, which is still currently out of my price range. That's why I asked about running the smaller, lesser quality sound cards instead.

Problem with using a mixer is I'd need one with a computer interface (I'm currently recording on Sonar's Cakewalk 7 Producer edition), and I need something that will tell the computer that it's separate signals.

Hardest part about using a mixer is that we don't have a separate room for the mixer, so through the headphones, I get drum bleed through. It's tough to set it up with a mixer like that. I'm thinking about seeing if I can go into a separate room (which means longer cords) to record.

[SomeAudioGuy]

Yeah, that's why I like the hybrids. They replace the need for a dedicated soundcard/audiointerface. They ARE the soundcard.
I have an NRV10, but the Onyx, and the Phonic, all communicate over Firewire, to give you individual tracks for each input. In the case of the Phonic 24, well, that's 24 individual tracks with suppport for direct out's (including SPDIF) and inserts, on a 4-bus mixer. The Phonic Helix 18MkII (http://astore.amazon.com/theramofsomau-20/detail/B000EW2DVI/104-4753181-9750332) is closer to your price range though...
I find the mixer interface also gives you MUCH greater control over the mix as a whole (EQ for example). That last sentence was kind of obvious...

I don't love that right on M-Audio's page there's a grey disclaimer for the 1010lt:
* It is not possible to used multiple (linked) audio cards with Pro Tools M-Powered
I know that shouldn't affect Sonar, but it just seems to me that the process isn't going to be completely painless.

In your price range i think dual 1010lt's is a fine plan, but will probably have some teething pains at the begining.

[ntiwari]

I am on the market for a good pair, I would love to get some tips on what to get. I did buy a couple of pairs buy they all seem cheap. I'm scared to shell out the big bucks for something I know nothing about.

-Rene


Hey Rene,

I've been using V-Moda Bass Frequency's for a while now, and I love them. They are relatively comfortable [like Sarah, I have small/funny shaped inner ears], they come with 2 different silicone type buds. True to their name, they also capture the bass in most music, creating a nice round sound. Plus, they come in fun colors--check those out!

:)N

[SomeAudioGuy]

Hey Rene,

I've been using V-Moda Bass Frequency's for a while now, and I love them. They are relatively comfortable [like Sarah, I have small/funny shaped inner ears], they come with 2 different silicone type buds. True to their name, they also capture the bass in most music, creating a nice round sound. Plus, they come in fun colors--check those out!

:)N

The VModa's look really cool. Are the cables pretty sturdy? They look a little like my old Sony Fontopias, which were great, but the cable shielding started to flake off after a couple months.