What's important in life? New comics talk for 04/09/2008!

[conorkilpatrick]

Tell us what you thought of the books of the week!

Here's what Josh (http://www.ifanboy.com/users/Josh/comics), Ron (http://www.ifanboy.com/users/Ron/comics), Conor (http://www.ifanboy.com/users/Conor/comics), and Gordon (http://www.ifanboy.com/users/Gordon/comics) are reading.

This week's Pick of the Week:

http://www.ifanboy.com/comics/dc_comics/young_liars/2/cover-thumb.jpg

From here on out, it's SPOILER-O-RAMA.

Don't forget to rate and review the books over at iFanboy.com (http://www.ifanboy.com/comics).

[mikegraham6]

i loved the end of Booster Gold. just goes to show that Ron has perfect timing with his Book of the month selection

[ryan79]

I had three books. Thank God for small weeks.

Countdown: I....don't know what's going on.

Amazing Spider-Man: Still enjoying the series, still loving the art, still digging the new bad guys. I have no complaints.

Justice Society of America: Yeah...members are going to die. It's about time there was a fight scene in this book. Loved Wildcat Jr.'s line: "What? He's one guy, there's like 25 of us!".

[labor_days]

Countdown was fun. I liked the art despite not being a fan of Williams II.

Seemed to give away some Death of the New Gods plotting. Not sure how I feel about that, but I had fun.

[gobo]

Nova #12 was amazing, more people should be reading this series.

[mikegraham6]

question: is Gog the one who is killing the new gods in Death of the New Gods? because that would be CRAZY!

[labor_days]

question: is Gog the one who is killing the new gods in Death of the New Gods? because that would be CRAZY!

I floated the same theory months ago. Doesn't seem to have panned out that way if you been reading Death of the New Gods though.

[iSteve]

I had three books. Thank God for small weeks.

Maybe for you, but I got over 20 books. A not-so-small week for me.

Haven't started reading, but much comic book goodness awaits.

[ruo21]

Criminal 2 #2 was the only book I got this week. The writing was just fantastic in this issue, and I can't wait for the next one. I love the cover.

[gobo]

Making my way through the list, Punisher 56 was excellent, this last arc is shaping up to go out with a bang.

Titans 1 was fun, mainly because it's the first time I've read Flash not be annoying in a while, nice to see Ian Churchill's art again. I think the last time I did was when he was drawing Cable

[labor_days]

Hey, does anyone have the number to the support group for those that read Titans #1?

[mikegraham6]

Hey, does anyone have the number to the support group for those that read Titans #1?
biggest disappointment of the week

[gineration]

Okay, so if Churchill could draw me and my friends with porn star boobs that would be great. I guess it's normal for girls to be anatomically perfect. :rolleyes:

[mattk]

Hey, does anyone have the number to the support group for those that read Titans #1?

I'd be afraid that some girl with big boobs and no interesting story whatsoever would answer...

Seriously though, this was a huge disappointment as I am only picking up 4 or 5 books a month and i am looking for new books to start grabbing and get involved in...

So freaking blah... and freaking Fantastic Four wasn't that great either, if i drop that i'll be down to 3 or 4 books a month. Man, maybe i need to forget about the monthlies and go back to trades... I can't find many sweet spots.

[paper]

JSA wins for the inclusion of beach chairs and stools around the big table. Funny as hell.

[neb]

I'd be afraid that some girl with big boobs and no interesting story whatsoever would answer...

Seriously though, this was a huge disappointment as I am only picking up 4 or 5 books a month and i am looking for new books to start grabbing and get involved in...

So freaking blah... and freaking Fantastic Four wasn't that great either, if i drop that i'll be down to 3 or 4 books a month. Man, maybe i need to forget about the monthlies and go back to trades... I can't find many sweet spots.

Did you pick up Criminal 2 #2? That's a great story driven series that would probably be right up your alley.

And by the way, probably my favorite book so far this week. Fucking fantastic.

[meccaed]

Criminal was simply superb this week. Brubaker's just picking out barely mentioned characters from the previous volume and building on those characters and themes and making it into something awesome. Sleeper book of the week? Nova! This is the only issues i've bought of this series, but i enjoyed the hell out of it.

[jon_samuelson]

You know you're busy when you completely forget that it's new comic day until well after the comic shop has closed.

[valoharth]

Just finished my stack: Titans, Serenity, Batman: Death Mask, Echo, and Green Arrow and Black Canary. Serenity would be my pick. Titans really was sort of a disappointment.

[paper]

Wrote a lengthy review of Titans #1 on the site.

I really enjoyed JSA, but I don't know that I have enough to say about it to warrant a review. Off to read Criminal right now.

[gungadin]

Fantastic Four was a bit of a let down... hell, it was a lot of a let down... I thought the coloring was too light and, for being the second book with snow that I've read this week (the other being ASM) I've decided snow + comics doesn't really work. It was damn confusing and the art felt rushed and not to par with what Hitch has done...

The last issue might have been pick worthy... This one? Not so much...

[gineration]

I didn't particularly care for FF either. The snow blurred the pictures so much sometimes that I couldn't tell who was fighting who. Also, CAP is so powerful that he knocks out the big guys? Hardly plausible.

[dave-accampo]

Sort of a dull week, eh?

Titans #1 - there was a little bit of fun in there, in a first five minutes of a Michael Bay movie sorta way. But ...yeah, I don' think i'm gonna continue this book.

GA/BC #7 is probably the best thing i've read. Not perfect, but I feel like Winick's banter here was generally pretty funny. No raging bear on steroids metaphors this time out. And Norton's artwork, while not as good as Chiang's, is a nice follow-up.

The Last Defenders #2 - kinda meh, but the thing is, I see what Casey's doing, and the book is actually kinda fun. It's sort of a classic team-building series...he's pretty clearly telegraphing the plot (the final line-up with be a new mix of the classic archetypes, with Son of Satan in the Doc Strange role, Krang in the Namor role, etc.), but it's an amusing diversion. Nothing fabulous.

Fantastic Four - this was pretty dull...none of the manic glee that comes when Millar has carte blanche to reinvent a franchise, as he did with The Ulltimates. This is just...kinda ordinary.

That's all I've read. I suspect that Criminal and BPRD will be the stand-outs. Maybe Young Liars. We'll see.

[gungadin]

I didn't particularly care for FF either. The snow blurred the pictures so much sometimes that I couldn't tell who was fighting who. Also, CAP is so powerful that he knocks out the big guys? Hardly plausible.

And then the big guys just got right back up three pages after being completely knocked down? Two minutes in comics time? I cry bull pucky...

[dave-accampo]

Wrote a lengthy review of Titans #1 on the site.

BWA-HA-HA-HA...sigh...

I didn't hate it as much as most people, but I also didn't expect much. It just seemed like a...very generic starting point without much meat on the bones. Like a Jeph Loeb book not drawn by Tim Sale.

I guess since I expected almost nothing, I did enjoy just seeing all the old Titans come together (I haven't read much with any of them in quite some time). But really that's all it was, wasn't it? Just a series of 1-2 character snippets and then...everything stands on a hill together?

[jmstump]

*wipes forehead* I'm glad I dodged that Titan's bullet this week.

Booster Gold was fantastic. Someone mentioned as a comment on the site that everyone else was annoying in the book. I don't think they understood the fact that they were suppose to be annoying. At least from my perspective.

Echo still has me interested, it hurts to pay 3.50 for a comic that's printed on pulp in black and white though.

Countdown - WOW where the hell did this issue come from? Review Here (http://ifanboy.com/reviews/jstump/dc_comics/countdown_to_final_crisis/3)

JSA - YES ABOUT TIME! I mentioned last month in my review this book was about due to explode and I really felt that it did this issue. It made me really happy.

I got a couple other books this week B.P.R.D 1946 and Serenity, both were fun books. Nothing that I feel really needs a comment... well other then Jayne's best line ever, I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.

[humphrey-lee]

Okay, so if Churchill could draw me and my friends with porn star boobs that would be great. I guess it's normal for girls to be anatomically perfect. :rolleyes:

Welcome to the world of standard superhero art.

[conorkilpatrick]

Welcome to the world of standard superhero art.

Nah, Churchill is definitely from the Top Cow school.

[humphrey-lee]

I had three books. Thank God for small weeks.


I understand how this is even possible. I think the smallest week barring a five-weeker that I get is like 12 books. Sheesh...

[mattk]

Fantastic Four was a bit of a let down... hell, it was a lot of a let down... I thought the coloring was too light and, for being the second book with snow that I've read this week (the other being ASM) I've decided snow + comics doesn't really work. It was damn confusing and the art felt rushed and not to par with what Hitch has done...

The last issue might have been pick worthy... This one? Not so much...

I'm glad i wasn't alone in thinking about that. I knew there was gonna be action in this issue so i was pumped for that... but really no only did the snow and coloring make it difficult to follow and distinguish, but there really wasn't that much action - just people charging a big robot who apparently can't be hurt by the world's best super heros - a little honky...

I'm gonna give it one more issue and then probably drop it after that... this was just a major let down for me...

[mikegraham6]

JSA wins for the inclusion of beach chairs and stools around the big table. Funny as hell.
i didn't notice that, but that's priceless :D

[paper]

Just did two more reviews:

Criminal (http://www.ifanboy.com/reviews/Pol/marvel_comics/criminal_2/2)

JSA (http://www.ifanboy.com/reviews/pol/dc_comics/justice_society_of_america/14)

[labor_days]

Dave, you didn't pick up Young Liars #2?

T'was good. I may be coming around to the series.

[horatio616]

Dave, you didn't pick up Young Liars #2?

T'was good. I may be coming around to the series.

I'm sticking around. The art looked a little rushed; not nearly as good as the first one. As for the story, it holds my interest, but I'm not sure that I like these characters even a little bit. Donnie is a pathetic loser, and that's the only reason I could see that he'd become obsessed with that nutcase girl. Still the twist at the end gave me enough to come back.

[horatio616]

Wrote a lengthy review of Titans #1 on the site.

I really enjoyed JSA, but I don't know that I have enough to say about it to warrant a review. Off to read Criminal right now.

Put my own two cents on Titans #1 on ifanboy.com. Truly assy book.

[valoharth]

Put my own two cents on Titans #1 on ifanboy.com. Truly assy book.

Titans #1 seemed more like a #0. Trigun (or what ever his name is) attack on all of them could have taken up two pages and the story should have been them meeting up.

[dave-accampo]

Dave, you didn't pick up Young Liars #2?

T'was good. I may be coming around to the series.

I did pick it up. Read it laaaate last night, so I haven't posted thoughts yet.

I really liked it. I haven't read Criminal yet, but unless Criminal is better, Young Liars is my pick so far. Excellent story, reminds me of how good Stray Bullets once was.

Big thumbs up from me. I liked the way he gave us an introduction in the first issue, but now he's drilling in and giving us the backstory. This...almost should have been the first issue. I get what he was trying to do, setting the stage, but THIS book is one I definitely want to read.

[dave-accampo]

Just did two more reviews:

JSA (http://www.ifanboy.com/reviews/pol/dc_comics/justice_society_of_america/14)

So, if I want to start picking up JSA again...where should I start? How far into the storyline are we? How far back should I go?

Everyone's been raving about it for so long, I feel like I need to give it another shot (it wasn't that I didn't like it before, it's just that I felt like I had already read Johns' JSA, and it ended and I didn't need more).

[dave-accampo]

Incidentally, I DID go back and buy the Atom from last week. I did like this issue a bit more than the last -- Remender's really playing up the pulp/sci-fi aspect of the character, and I really like that. There's still something off about the storytelling (the pacing seems a bit off, perhaps?), and I don't like Remender's version of that giant head thing -- but it's definitely got potential.

[paper]

Did you read Justice Society from the first issue?

The second hardcover is coming out at the end of the month.

[labor_days]

Dave, totes. I felt Lapham brought me into the story a little more effectively with this issue. With the hook at the end being a bit more intriguing from a visceral stand point. I have to know where this is going now.

[euchre0]

Why did the title page in Titans say "Part 2"? Is that a joke or other kind of mechanism, or is it just a mistake? I really liked Ian Churchill on Cable and then a few issues of Action Comics (I think) but I didn't like the stuff here. The story was boring and after starting on Outsiders and then dropping it 8 issues in, I don't think I'll wait around that long this go around. I rarely HATE a book (World War Hulk being the most recent), but usually, when I start a new series I evaluate by thinking "Okay, in a year or two, do I think I will still keep this run (assuming I buy 5-6 issues) or will I have sold it to Half Priced books to get about $2.50?" Sadly, even if Titans gets better, I can't imagine that it'll improve enough for me to buy more issues

Fantastic Four stinks. I've been buying this title consistently for about 7 years and this is shaping up to be one of the dumbest stories in a long time. I haven't really liked the first two issues as much as everyone else seems to, but this issue was pointless and not very enjoyable. Honestly, it felt like a rejected Ultimate story. It made me think of Conor's article about Batman and all the different interpretations' validity. Millar seems to be of the ilk that says "Hey, I have a vague notion about these characters, I'll just come up with a story that has four people with these powers! Who cares about their established personalities and interaction from the last 45 years?"

Green Arrow was enjoyable and I thought Norton's art was wonderful. As other people have said, he's no Chiang, but I will be pleased if he sticks on this book for a while.

Amazing Spider-Man was good again this week, but I agree with Conor's assessment from last week's podcast in that Bachalo's art seriously detracts from a very well written story. If McNiven or Jimenez was on this it would be great. I kept thinking though out this issue how great it would have been if Mike Wieringo were alive to draw this story.

Wolverine was still pretty good, but the absence of the previous two issues' inker was very obvious. I forget who the inker was, but let's get him back on quickly!

JSA was my pick of the week. The character interaction was fun and well written, plus they moved the story along. Mind you, even if the entire issue took place in that big gathering room I think I would have loved it, but it is nice for them to start fighting.

I still have Criminal and Suburban Glamour to read, but I've heard good things already.

[valoharth]

Echo, man do I love Terry Moore's drawing. Classic and modern at the same time! The only problem with Echo though is I can't wait till the next issue, but I'm still on the fence about it. Such a departure from SiP, not that its a bad thing but it's hard to look at the art and not think "Where the heck is Kachoo?'

[horatio616]

Echo, man do I love Terry Moore's drawing. Classic and modern at the same time! The only problem with Echo though is I can't wait till the next issue, but I'm still on the fence about it. Such a departure from SiP, not that its a bad thing but it's hard to look at the art and not think "Where the heck is Kachoo?'

I loathe Katchoo. If she shows up I'm gone!

[dave-accampo]

Did you read Justice Society from the first issue?

The second hardcover is coming out at the end of the month.

I read the entire previous series, and i think I read the first arc of the new series and then dropped it.

Oh wait -- I did read the JSA/JLA cross-over...is that what's in the 2nd hardcover?

I think I stopped after that.

[horatio616]

Fantastic Four stinks. I've been buying this title consistently for about 7 years and this is shaping up to be one of the dumbest stories in a long time. I haven't really liked the first two issues as much as everyone else seems to, but this issue was pointless and not very enjoyable. Honestly, it felt like a rejected Ultimate story. It made me think of Conor's article about Batman and all the different interpretations' validity. Millar seems to be of the ilk that says "Hey, I have a vague notion about these characters, I'll just come up with a story that has four people with these powers! Who cares about their established personalities and interaction from the last 45 years?"


FF hasn't been relevant since Byrne was on it, or maybe perhaps when Simonson was on it. It was a good idea to do something different to the title, 'established personalities' be damned. Now, this issue being an exception, it's been going pretty well. The FF absolutely needed this reinterpretation.

[valoharth]

I loathe Katchoo. If she shows up I'm gone!

Wha? I love Katchoo and every character in SiP. Oh well, I just have to accept that not everyone loves what I love and let it be at that. No matter how hard that is to accept.

[paper]

I read the entire previous series, and i think I read the first arc of the new series and then dropped it.

Oh wait -- I did read the JSA/JLA cross-over...is that what's in the 2nd hardcover?

I think I stopped after that.

The second hardcover is the beginning of this Thy Kingdom Come arc. Issues 7-12. We're on #14. One more issue of this arc, but it's being followed up by another related arc. So i'd say go a bit back rather than wait around.

That said, if you didn't like the first arc...

But the second hardcover opens with #7, which is my favorite single issue of a comic book ever.

[euchre0]

FF hasn't been relevant since Byrne was on it, or maybe perhaps when Simonson was on it. It was a good idea to do something different to the title, 'established personalities' be damned. Now, this issue being an exception, it's been going pretty well. The FF absolutely needed this reinterpretation.


What do you mean by relevant? If you are using 'relevant' to mean 'good,' then we disagree. Then again, for some reason, I've always liked the Fantastic Four even when it wasn't great in the 90s. The Waid/ Wieringo run was fantastic, off the top of my heard.

I'd argue that this book isn't any more relevant, only getting a flash in the pan boost by the creative team. Millar won't do anything that revitalizes the book other than the year or so he and Hitch are on it.

I should mention that Millar's mishandle on the character's isn't what bothered me that much (after all, Morrison was much more extreme on X-Men, but I loved that), but I think Millar is a mediocre writer who is considered a big name in the industry and being paired with Hitch is a boost to sales. Great.

Really, what I perceive as most people's criticism of Loeb is how I feel about Millar. He's done some good work, like The Ultimates and Spider-Man, but when I look at much of his work I don't get why he is so popular or why he continues to to get high profile gigs. I just don't think the story has been good or that interesting.

[labor_days]

Why did the title page in Titans say "Part 2"? Is that a joke or other kind of mechanism, or is it just a mistake?

Part one was in the Teen Titans East Special. Those were the Titans East at the end of the book, the ones all busted up. Powerboy being killed and Vic being mangled at the end of the special.

[valoharth]

Part one was in the Teen Titans East Special. Those were the Titans East at the end of the book, the ones all busted up. Powerboy being killed and Vic being mangled at the end of the special.

In the last two or three years how many times has Vic been messed up? Really, poor guy just can't get a break in life can he?

[dave-accampo]

The second hardcover is the beginning of this Thy Kingdom Come arc. Issues 7-12. We're on #14. One more issue of this arc, but it's being followed up by another related arc. So i'd say go a bit back rather than wait around.

That said, if you didn't like the first arc...

But the second hardcover opens with #7, which is my favorite single issue of a comic book ever.

It wasn't that I didn't like the first arc, I just...didn't need it?

But given how much everyone talks about it, I kinda feel like I need to give the book another chance. I think I'm dropping a couple of things, so i can make room for it.

I'll probably pick up the second hardcover and go forward from there...

[dave-accampo]

In the last two or three years how many times has Vic been messed up? Really, poor guy just can't get a break in life can he?

That's one of the things that bores me now. See, I've been reading comics for a long time. And you take someone like Cyborg -- he's EASY to dismantle. That's what you do when you need some kind of dramatic effect. It's been done so many times, but...that's what you can DO with that kind of character. It's one of the conceits.

Now, if they were to amputate Nightwing's arms and legs, THEN I'd really take notice.

(That's why I always liked what DC did with Barbara Gordon. They let the Alan Moore story play, and then they built on it. They didn't give Babs some easy out. She had to truly reinvent herself, which actually changed her character. I believe John Ostrander started this process with her in his original Suicide Squad series.)

[horatio616]

What do you mean by relevant? If you are using 'relevant' to mean 'good,' then we disagree. Then again, for some reason, I've always liked the Fantastic Four even when it wasn't great in the 90s. The Waid/ Wieringo run was fantastic, off the top of my heard.

I'd argue that this book isn't any more relevant, only getting a flash in the pan boost by the creative team. Millar won't do anything that revitalizes the book other than the year or so he and Hitch are on it.

I should mention that Millar's mishandle on the character's isn't what bothered me that much (after all, Morrison was much more extreme on X-Men, but I loved that), but I think Millar is a mediocre writer who is considered a big name in the industry and being paired with Hitch is a boost to sales. Great.

Really, what I perceive as most people's criticism of Loeb is how I feel about Millar. He's done some good work, like The Ultimates and Spider-Man, but when I look at much of his work I don't get why he is so popular or why he continues to to get high profile gigs. I just don't think the story has been good or that interesting.

Relevant meaning buzzworthy. Look how many pulls it's getting. Before no one ever talked about it. The sales reflect that too.

If you want to compare Loeb and Millar. Read Ultimates 1 and 2 then U3. There's an obvious drop in quality. I don't see much of a comparison.

[dave-accampo]

Well, it's too bad it takes Millar to make title like FF buzzworthy. Because, I'll tell you guys, I was enjoying Dwayne McDuffie's short run on the title. Right now, I'm saying: it was better than Millar's.

and I generally like Millar. And I love Hitch. But this doesn't seem to have, at this point anyway, the same level of magic as their other collaborations. It's still pretty decent, and they could still blow me away as the story continues, but...right now I'm missing McDuffie a little bit...

[euchre0]

If you want to compare Loeb and Millar. Read Ultimates 1 and 2 then U3. There's an obvious drop in quality. I don't see much of a comparison.

The comparison I see is that the Ultimates is Millar's Long Halloween. After that, none of their stuff is consistently great. The Ultimates, both 1 and 2, is a great series. It is the pinnacle of Millar's craft, just as Long Halloween is Loeb's. The rest of Millar's stuff is as inconsistent as Loeb's is. Read JMS' and McDuffie's run and then Millar's and there is an obvious drop in quality. I don't dislike Millar, I just don't think his stuff has been that great.

You are absolutely right in saying that it is more buzz worthy, but it was also pretty buzz worthy under Waid, and rightfully so. I am glad more people are buying the book, but I still think people are buying into buzz more than good story.

[euchre0]

Well, it's too bad it takes Millar to make title like FF buzzworthy. Because, I'll tell you guys, I was enjoying Dwayne McDuffie's short run on the title. Right now, I'm saying: it was better than Millar's.
Wise words.

[valoharth]

I was hoping Millars run on FF would get me into them, but it's not. I like the FF but I don't like most of the stories writen about them. I have yet to read the latest, I read the first two in the run and I was gonna give it one more shot with this one, but it's not sounding good.

[gungadin]

Well the thing about this issue is I was bothered with how much it didn't flow... "Cap" took down EVERYONE... Wolverine, Spidey, Iron Fist and the Sentry (who I know people don't care about, but still... This thing took down The Sentry and everyone else? That's insane and it doesn't make a lick of sense)... And I'm supposed to feel like a kick ass cliffhanger moment when on the last page I see Reed on one of those aerial-snow scooters? The Sentry couldn't beat this giant robot. What hope does Mr. Fantastic have to help them beat it?

[horatio616]

Well, it's too bad it takes Millar to make title like FF buzzworthy. Because, I'll tell you guys, I was enjoying Dwayne McDuffie's short run on the title. Right now, I'm saying: it was better than Millar's.

and I generally like Millar. And I love Hitch. But this doesn't seem to have, at this point anyway, the same level of magic as their other collaborations. It's still pretty decent, and they could still blow me away as the story continues, but...right now I'm missing McDuffie a little bit...

I read it and can't say I agree. Good or bad, Millar and Hitch bring much needed change to the FF.

[kahunablair]

I read it and can't say I agree. Good or bad, Millar and Hitch bring much needed change to the FF.

Same here. They both tried something different and I liked both approaches.

[horatio616]

The comparison I see is that the Ultimates is Millar's Long Halloween. After that, none of their stuff is consistently great. The Ultimates, both 1 and 2, is a great series. It is the pinnacle of Millar's craft, just as Long Halloween is Loeb's. The rest of Millar's stuff is as inconsistent as Loeb's is. Read JMS' and McDuffie's run and then Millar's and there is an obvious drop in quality. I don't dislike Millar, I just don't think his stuff has been that great.


I absolutely agree. Ultimates is so much better than the rest of his work, except possibly his run on The Authority. I may be forgetting something here, but I don't think anything else he's done touches it.

I really don't think this FF is that far off from being really really good. Millar just needs to tighten things up. He needs to worry about good story first and letting Hitch draw pretty stuff second, and not vice versa. Also, lose the EFX on the art. Hitch didn't need all those snowflakes interfering with his art.

[dave-accampo]

I read it and can't say I agree. Good or bad, Millar and Hitch bring much needed change to the FF.

I don't really see much of a change, though. McDuffie was telling intelligent, clever super-hero family stories that were dramatic and funny. Millar is telling roughly the same type of stories.

And, IMHO, McDuffie's stories have been > Millar's. At this point. I fully admit that this could all snap into place for Millar and next issue I could fall off my chair. But right now...? Not so much.

Another thought: McDuffie's same stories but with Hitch's new trade dress, costume redesigns, and interior art. That would be totally buzzworthy.

[horatio616]

I don't really see much of a change, though. McDuffie was telling intelligent, clever super-hero family stories that were dramatic and funny. Millar is telling roughly the same type of stories.

And, IMHO, McDuffie's stories have been > Millar's. At this point. I fully admit that this could all snap into place for Millar and next issue I could fall off my chair. But right now...? Not so much.

Another thought: McDuffie's same stories but with Hitch's new trade dress, costume redesigns, and interior art. That would be totally buzzworthy.

McDuffie was saddled with Storm and Black Panther, who suck as a pair. I just think of this as a graphic novel in 16 parts. Once it's over, things will go back to the status quo and their run will stand on it's own merits and not as FF canon, like Whedon's run on Astonishing. This is going to make a great trade.

[euchre0]

I absolutely agree. Ultimates is so much better than the rest of his work, except possibly his run on The Authority. I may be forgetting something here, but I don't think anything else he's done touches it.
Well, I should admit that I've only read Millar's Marvel stuff. I haven't gotten tho his Authority stuff or Wanted stuff yet.

I really don't think this FF is that far off from being really really good. Millar just needs to tighten things up. He needs to worry about good story first and letting Hitch draw pretty stuff second, and not vice versa.

Despite what I've already said on this story, I absolutely agree with you here.

[dave-accampo]

McDuffie was saddled with Storm and Black Panther, who suck as a pair. I just think of this as a graphic novel in 16 parts. Once it's over, things will go back to the status quo and their run will stand on it's own merits and not as FF canon, like Whedon's run on Astonishing. This is going to make a great trade.

I was actually thinking more of the final story, where he got back to writing about the main four. That story built on concepts from Civil War, hit heavily on Sci-Fi, and was a good family drama.

That said, it goes to my point -- If McDuffie had the freedom that Millar's been given, combined with the re-design of the book, his stories are stronger than this.

However, as you say -- this may work better in a trade. I don't know. It definitely doesn't have the same spark that his other works have had.

[valoharth]

McDuffie was saddled with Storm and Black Panther, who suck as a pair. I just think of this as a graphic novel in 16 parts. Once it's over, things will go back to the status quo and their run will stand on it's own merits and not as FF canon, like Whedon's run on Astonishing. This is going to make a great trade.

I don't like Storm and Black Panther as characters, it's what made me stay far away from FF during his run.

[kahunablair]

I don't like Storm and Black Panther as characters, it's what made me stay far away from FF during his run.

Racist. ;)

Seriously though, they were ok. I would have liked to see him write an actual FF storyline.

[labor_days]

There is something about the Fantastic Four that renders them completely uninteresting to me, regardless of creative team. Moore/Ha or Morrison/Quitely could be on FF and I would still think twice about reading it.

Just seems like they had their time and that time has passed. But I'm only spitballin' here as I never read a good FF story that made me give a damn about the title.

Yet I love seeing them everywhere else. Not in their own book though. No.

[valoharth]

There is something about the Fantastic Four that renders them completely uninteresting to me, regardless of creative team. Moore/Ha or Morrison/Quitely could be on FF and I would still think twice about reading it.

Just seems like they had their time and that time has passed. But I'm only spitballin' here as I never read a good FF story that made me give a damn about the title.

Yet I love seeing them everywhere else. Not in their own book though. No.

I could go with that, FF should be more like Dr. Strange. They are starting to become like Superman where you can't really go in and do a story that will shake things up. They have become irrelivent in the 616 really.

[kahunablair]

I feel the same way about Legion and the New Gods, Labor. Something about them doesn't normally get me going.


EDIT:
I love the concept of what the FF should be. I haven't really been a fan of what's been done with them though.

I want the High Adventure, Over the Top, Cosmic FF. I think the version of the FF I'd buy every week were last seen in the Waid/Weiringo run, years back.

[labor_days]

The funny thing is the FF are not irrelevant to 616 at all. They are crucial in almost all the big Marvvel stories/characters. From Mole Man to Galactus to the Infinity Gems.

But why can't I be bothered to read the title book? I have no idea.


Also, Kahuna, I hate your soul. That is all.

[kahunablair]

Also, Kahuna, I hate your soul. That is all.
I was commiserating with you, you bastard!

[valoharth]

The funny thing is the FF are not irrelevant to 616 at all. They are crucial in almost all the big Marvvel stories/characters. From Mole Man to Galactus to the Infinity Gems.

But why can't I be bothered to read the title book? I have no idea.


Also, Kahuna, I hate your soul. That is all.

Yea, they are but their book just seems to scream it though. If the right writer was give a loose leash with the FF I could see them becoming relevant and good.

Here's a thought, maybe the reason their books haven't been doing so well is because they have to stay on Earth because of all this Summer Event hoopla and Continuity requires them to be on earth.

[kahunablair]

Here's a thought, maybe the reason their books haven't been doing so well is because they have to stay on Earth because of all this Summer Event hoopla and Continuity requires them to be on earth.

Nah.
How many Wolverines are there? The Avengers popped up in how many books this week alone?

If the right team took advantage of them, they could go nuts with it.

If you're a continuty nut, then send them back in time. Let them spend a few issues in Cavemen time, and then pop back in mere seconds after they left.

[valoharth]

Nah.
How many Wolverines are there? The Avengers popped up in how many books this week alone?

If the right team took advantage of them, they could go nuts with it.

If you're a continuty nut, then send them back in time. Let them spend a few issues in Cavemen time, and then pop back in mere seconds after they left.

Now that I would read.

[labor_days]

I love the concept of what the FF should be. I haven't really been a fan of what's been done with them though.

I want the High Adventure, Over the Top, Cosmic FF. I think the version of the FF I'd buy every week were last seen in the Waid/Weiringo run, years back.
I know, right? FF has everything I want in a comic in theory; wacky science, space adventures, alternate dimensions, great characters, an inconsiderate husband and Dr. Doom.

What is wrong with this book exactly?

[kahunablair]

Now that I would read.
Quick! Someone get Marvel to hire me!

I know, right? FF has everything I want in a comic in theory; wacky science, space adventures, alternate dimensions, great characters, an inconsiderate husband and Dr. Doom.
What is wrong with this book exactly?
Exactly. Concept-wise this is a Labor/Blair Book all the way!

[mattk]

What hope does Mr. Fantastic have to help them beat it?

He's the only one that knows where the off button is... that's why he's so fantastic... And he'll probably have to stretch to press it.... that will be a great action panel...

I wanted this book to be amazing, especially coming off just finishing ultimates this is nowhere close...

[conorkilpatrick]

What hope does Mr. Fantastic have to help them beat it?

Um, he's the smartest man in the universe?

Brains over brawn.

[gungadin]

He's the only one that knows where the off button is... that's why he's so fantastic... And he'll probably have to stretch to press it.... that will be a great action panel...

Um, he's the smartest man in the universe?

Brains over brawn.

Fair enough... But it still failed to get me to go "YEAH! Kick ass!" as the last page of this should have...

[humphrey-lee]

The funny thing is the FF are not irrelevant to 616 at all. They are crucial in almost all the big Marvvel stories/characters. From Mole Man to Galactus to the Infinity Gems.

But why can't I be bothered to read the title book? I have no idea.


Also, Kahuna, I hate your soul. That is all.

I've always said, given who they are, what they stand for, and their creative pedigree in the past, it always seems like the FF should be the center-point of the Marvel U, but never are. I guess it could be something to do more with the company ending up being the "House that Stan" built over that of what Jack did, but still it astounds me how typically disregarded the FF are until it comes time for Reed to step in and save the day with his big stretchy brain...

[neb]

I agree with everyone's assessment of FF. It's a stink bomb this month. I wrote a review on the site if you want my full impressions.

After flipping through the pages, I noticed no one's really talked much about two of my favorite books from this week: Criminal 2 #2 and Nova. Both were very solid reads. I wrote a review for Nova on the site, so check out my thoughts there.

Criminal continues to be one of the most amazing series out there. I don't know how people can not be reading this book. It's the perfect meld of storytelling and artistry. I just can't even put into words just how much I love this book. Both this and Scalped are on my "I will never, ever stop buying these" list.

Also, I had a blast reading Serenity this week. To sound like a broken record, there's a review on the site for my impressions. Just really solid, and makes me want to make Joss Whedon make the show again.

Jason Aaron + Wolverine= Crazy, Good fun time, berserker rage, awesomeness. In mine eyes, this writer can do no wrong.

Final thought: Mike Norton on GA/BC was a pleasantly wonderful surprise, and Winick's big reveal from last issue played out well in this one, causing me to wipe my brow in relief.

[dave-accampo]

Just read Criminal and Wolverine.

Wolverine is good - the character doesn't hold a lot of interest for me, but Jason Aaron's doing a good job of doing a more plot-driven story that builds off of untold tales of his past in order to add meat to the characters. It's what I'd call the "Highlander" (tv series) school of episodic fiction. :)

Criminal was fantastic. Really, really good. Any perceived imbalances of the first issue appear to have been corrected here. This is my PoW, beating out Young Liars.

Still have to read SubGlam and BPRD.

[jmstump]

Shameless plug:

My review of JSA is here (http://ifanboy.com/reviews/jstump/dc_comics/justice_society_of_america/14)

Forewarning I got carried away with my excitement and a chunk of the review is almost play by play. Spoiler heavy.

[valoharth]

I've always said, given who they are, what they stand for, and their creative pedigree in the past, it always seems like the FF should be the center-point of the Marvel U, but never are. I guess it could be something to do more with the company ending up being the "House that Stan" built over that of what Jack did, but still it astounds me how typically disregarded the FF are until it comes time for Reed to step in and save the day with his big stretchy brain...

Back in the Stan Lee days, as I understand it, the FF was the center point of the Marvel U, then the Avengers Assembled and that became the center.

Here’s how it should go, Earth has a problem what do we do? We turn to Mr. Fantastic that’s what we do!

This is still going on, I mean the Marvel U does turn to him but it just seems like they push him to the background and let some other character be the center of attention (Wolverine, Spiderman, Capt, and Iron Man in the last couple of years).

[neb]

Shameless plug:

My review of JSA is here (http://ifanboy.com/reviews/jstump/dc_comics/justice_society_of_america/14)

Forewarning I got carried away with my excitement and a chunk of the review is almost play by play. Spoiler heavy.

Carried away may be a little bit of an understatement...

Nice review though! :)

[six-gun]

Criminal- I'm speechless. The last page had me in tears.

[neb]

Criminal- I'm speechless. The last page had me in tears.

Werd. This issue was so good.

[iSteve]

Looks like I'm in the small minority on this one, but I didn't think that either the Fantastic Four or Titans was that bad this week. The Fantastic Four didn't stand up to the last two issues, but it didn't stink either. I don't get the "hate" on this one. As for Titans, I had little expectations going in - and I wasn't disappointed. It felt to me like what a 1st issue usually is - introducing the characters, the team coming together, a threat exposed. Granted, not the best, but I've read far worse. DC still has a chance on this one to make it connect. I have hopes.

[wellthatsalright]

My Dad picked up my copy of Criminal from my desk on Friday morning while I was running out the door for class, I came back and found he had read my pull list from that week and tipped my long boxes out to look for more Criminal. I didn't have the heart to tell him that I haven't bought the trades yet.

[six-gun]

Greg Rucka's run on Wolverine is my favorite of all time because he took real world issues and let Wolverine deal with them.

Jason Aaron is doing something very similar and it's a crime that he and Garney are leaving the book come June.

I think that if they had been given 20 or so issues that it would have been just plain epic.

[paper]

There are 5 star reviews of Titans #1 on the site. Story and art. Yet in each review they concede that there are flaws to the art, and in some cases shortcomings to the script considering that....NOTHING HAPPENS!

[iSteve]

....NOTHING HAPPENS!

Well, there is that.

[labor_days]

I only read the reviews of a select few.

Quickly it became apparent people were terribly inconsistent and/or nonsensical in ratings.

Enthusiast press nice in theory. Practice...well.

[iSteve]

I only read the reviews of a select few.

Quickly it became apparent people were terribly inconsistent and/or nonsensical in ratings.

Enthusiast press nice in theory. Practice...well.

Free speech... over-rated?

[labor_days]

Free speech... over-rated?
No, the written reviews are fine. It's the ratings that are wildly inconsistent.

Where you might see a review that in the body says "the book has problems", and still get a 5/5 rating in art or story.

Numerical ratings only work with a clear editorial reasoning behind them; i.e. Head Heritage, AMG, P-fork. Never when they are dished out williy-nilly. That is the problem of the enthusiast press, where a 5 star/A+/10.0 is really shorthand for "I think it's neat". Leads to poor and/or invaluable criticism.

[jmstump]

Carried away may be a little bit of an understatement...

Nice review though! :)

Titanic review indeed :D

[six-gun]

I dropped FF. I didn't think it was bad, I just don't care

[dave-accampo]

Looks like I'm in the small minority on this one, but I didn't think that either the Fantastic Four or Titans was that bad this week. The Fantastic Four didn't stand up to the last two issues, but it didn't stink either. I don't get the "hate" on this one. As for Titans, I had little expectations going in - and I wasn't disappointed. It felt to me like what a 1st issue usually is - introducing the characters, the team coming together, a threat exposed. Granted, not the best, but I've read far worse. DC still has a chance on this one to make it connect. I have hopes.

Re: fantastic four -- I don't think there's "hate" here, Steve. Those of us who had negative remarks were underwhelmed, and a lot of that is due to high expectations in this "relaunch."

Re: Titans...yeah, I just felt like nothing much happened. It was such a standard set-up. Felt like the first 10 minutes of a Michael Bay movie or something. I agree that they could still do something fun once the characters are together, but the first issue is a big black mark on its record. ;)

[dave-accampo]

BPRD: 1946 #4 was really strong this issue. I should write a full review on the site, but... I'm lazy.

I thought the storytelling and pacing were a bit more succinct this time around. And where my problems with Abe Sapien come from the rather sparse character work. Here, Dysart (I assume) manages to infuse a little extra personality into Mignola's pulp horror plot. The bits from the "bricklayer's son" were especially effective.

Suburban Glamour #4 - overall, I love the art, design, and the basic concept. There's something that doesn't quite satisfy. OK, the plot is basically Harry Potter meets the Matrix... with Hipsters. It even ends with a Faerie version of the final Matrix shot. But...the end in SubGlam came a bit too quickly and without enough weight. Everything was just sort of dumped on us and stopped very quickly because Astrid said "stop." I guess it all just felt a bit too much like it was packaged to set up a certain status quo. I wanted a little more meat on the bones. For Astrid to want to escape, then be offered an escape (via new parents), only to realize that's it's not really an escape, well... I felt like that needed more time and attention. It's a cool, classic conceit, but...I think the scope demanded a little more nuance than it was given.

[labor_days]

I dropped FF. I didn't think it was bad, I just don't care
Interestingly, Marv Wolfman on last Friday's Word Balloon was quite candid in saying Fantastic Four is very difficult to write. Seems the FF are so beholden to the Lee/Kirby craziness that it's a real task to match that high concept pulp comic booking and still keep the title relevant.

Wolfman also said continuity is part of the problem. So there may be some truth to the feelings we here in this thread have toward the title.

I want to care about the FF. Truly.

edit: But I might read an FF drawn by Chiang. ;)

http://i26.tinypic.com/2uzsfg3.jpg

[horatio616]

There are 5 star reviews of Titans #1 on the site. Story and art. Yet in each review they concede that there are flaws to the art, and in some cases shortcomings to the script considering that....NOTHING HAPPENS!

I wish that I was at the point in my life that I could enjoy something as God-awful as Titans #1.

[paper]

JSA

Here's my thought. What if we have it backwards? What if Gog takes out the vets and not the kids?

[horatio616]

JSA

Here's my thought. What if we have it backwards? What if Gog takes out the vets and not the kids?

The kids always die at DC.

[paper]

They've shown that they're aware of fan reaction (the beach chairs), so maybe they're subverting expectations.

[six-gun]

JSA

Here's my thought. What if we have it backwards? What if Gog takes out the vets and not the kids?

I think that's pretty likely

[ruo21]

Young Liars #2- Picked this up after seeing the pick of the week and gee golly I'm glad I did. I really enjoy the characters in this series and the way the whole story is being put together. Thanks for turning me on to this Ron.

[jmstump]

JSA

Here's my thought. What if we have it backwards? What if Gog takes out the vets and not the kids?

If they take Alan Scott and Jay away from me I will cry and I will blame you for it paper! Really, I will cry if they do. Also as mentioned in paper's review they are also not allowed to take Citizen Steel. I've had similar thoughts about this too, I just hope it doesn't happen.

[mikegraham6]

edit: But I might read an FF drawn by Chiang. ;)

http://i26.tinypic.com/2uzsfg3.jpg

I think you'd read almost anything so long as it's drawn by Cliff Chiang ;)

How about Cliff Chiang's Power Pack! now there's a sure fire winner!

[kwok_talk]

So...is anyone else ready Avengers Fairy Tales? I absolutely am loving the reinterpretations and art of the miniseries!

[oceanblue]

I too love this comic...except for the moral ending which is too much of a happy package for me.

I wasn't going to pick up this comic because I didn't like the art in the first one. I think it may have been the colors more than the styles, yes I am this shallow. However, I saw the second one and wanted it so of course I had to start at the beginning.

I love the new take on the fairy tale. I also read Fables, though I wait for the graphic novel to come out, and enjoy the play on relationships and ideas to be intriguing there too.

I am sad this will only be four short comics but perhaps I will find another floppy that I like so that I am not always scouring the graphic novels for something, anything, new that will capture my attention.

[paper]

I tried this last one out. I think it's a cool idea but I didn't like the writing style, like the narrator's text and the dialogue. It's a little clunky. It's unfortunate because I really do like the concepts.

[oceanblue]

I tried this last one out. I think it's a cool idea but I didn't like the writing style, like the narrator's text and the dialogue. It's a little clunky. It's unfortunate because I really do like the concepts.

I can see where you are coming from yet it reminds me of the original as those tales are sometimes quaint and clunky. It didn't take away from the enjoyment then or now as I could still loose myself in what I was being shown and still what I could imagine, even with the pictures before my eyes.

[paper]

Really depends on the translation of those old tales, but they can be written quite whimsically. Formal and antiquated doesn't have to mean clunky.

[kwok_talk]

I tried this last one out. I think it's a cool idea but I didn't like the writing style, like the narrator's text and the dialogue. It's a little clunky. It's unfortunate because I really do like the concepts.

Agreed, I found the Spider-Man one to be hit or miss. But man, this totally won me over.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2233/2185598621_06e47baa40.jpg

[oceanblue]

Many translations are whimsical and beautifully written, however, the originals are told in a childish way and so are clunky.

I think I am explaining this wrong but I will go ahead anyways.

I feel as though the original stories, as I was told them and read them myself, came across in a stilted or clunky manor. I think this is partly because as they were tales for children about morals the word choices were different than they otherwise might have been. Also, when a child tells the tale it is going to have that kind of feel with their excitement and pauses to remember the story correctly.

I feel that this comic captures this wonderfully. If it had been more polished I don't believe it would have been as enjoyable to given me reason to imagine anything. So often a comic is taken at face value because you have the words and pictures there for you making a complete experience, this comic left amply opportunity for the reader to imagine and get the same experience as a the original tales offered.

[paper]

Many translations are whimsical and beautifully written, however, the originals are told in a childish way and so are clunky.


We're gonna have to agree to disagree.

Haha, I think 60% of the debates I get into on the boards relate to children's and YA literature."

The important thing is, I do like what they're doing here. I was just really critical about it because it's totally in my wheelhouse. I wrote one Pinocchio story and have plans to do another.

[kwok_talk]

Many translations are whimsical and beautifully written, however, the originals are told in a childish way and so are clunky.

I think I am explaining this wrong but I will go ahead anyways.

I feel as though the original stories, as I was told them and read them myself, came across in a stilted or clunky manor. I think this is partly because as they were tales for children about morals the word choices were different than they otherwise might have been. Also, when a child tells the tale it is going to have that kind of feel with their excitement and pauses to remember the story correctly.

I feel that this comic captures this wonderfully. If it had been more polished I don't believe it would have been as enjoyable to given me reason to imagine anything. So often a comic is taken at face value because you have the words and pictures there for you making a complete experience, this comic left amply opportunity for the reader to imagine and get the same experience as a the original tales offered.

Agreed. Except you had actual logic to explain your like of it, instead of me who just flashes up a picture and points at it like a 4 year old. :)

[oceanblue]

Hey, there is nothing wrong with that. Aren't fairy tales supposed to be for four year olds?? lol As long as you learned your lesson then all is right with the world. A nice pretty bow at the end makes for good morals.

[paper]

Good luck reading Grimm's Fairy Tales to a 4 year old. What with the night terrors sure to follow.

[oceanblue]

Good luck reading Grimm's Fairy Tales to a 4 year old. What with the night terrors sure to follow.

I did managed just fine as a child to listen to Grimm's Fairy Tales and not pee the bed. Though I don't think that you should terrorize children I don't believe that simply because a story is scary it should not be told to a child.

Also, Grimm wrote for a different generation and as the times changed his stories have been adapted for those who are less willing to threaten children into being good and prefer to solicit their goodness with the promise of happily ever after.

[charlie-blix]

Good luck reading Grimm's Fairy Tales to a 4 year old. What with the night terrors sure to follow.

Four year olds today are pussies. Back in Grimm's day a four year old was tough and knew what fear really was.

[paper]

This really didn't have that bite.

If you want the actual successor to Grimm and Anderson, you want Hellboy and Mike Mignola's other collaborations with Christopher Golden.

[kwok_talk]

Good luck reading Grimm's Fairy Tales to a 4 year old. What with the night terrors sure to follow.

Hm...I guess reading them these Grimm's Fairy Tales didn't really help either.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2073/2414313301_ce208ed6a6_m.jpg

[oceanblue]

This really didn't have that bite.

If you want the actual successor to Grimm and Anderson, you want Hellboy and Mike Mignola's other collaborations with Christopher Golden.

I never said these had the bite of Grimm or that they were to be a successor. Grimm was brought up as something to not read to a four year old, lets try to keep with what is associated and what is not.

[paper]

I was responding to Charlie, actually.

[charlie-blix]

I was responding to Charlie, actually.

ummm...? Paper I think you've lost all of us... I was just saying that Grimm was meant for 4 year olds... back then.

[paper]

No, I agree with you, CB. I was trying to add to that line of thinking by saying Mignola was more of a successor to Grimms' than this watered-down, poorly scripted adaptation. Well meaning as it is.

[charlie-blix]

No, I agree with you, CB. I was trying to add to that line of thinking by saying Mignola was more of a successor to Grimms' than this watered-down, poorly scripted adaptation. Well meaning as it is.

But I wasn't saying that this comic was a adaptation of Grimms... in fact Peter Pan was not a Grimm story... Nor was Pinocchio... I just saw that you said Grimm wasn't made for 4 year olds... when it in fact was. Thats about it.

[paper]

I didn't say it wasn't.

And yes, Pinocchio is an Italian folk tale. I know. Peter Pan is a play.

You're correct in that my invocation of Grimm was sort of an unfair generalization.

I get defensive and illogical when people dismiss the source material as kid's stuff. And to call it "clunk" is absolutely ridiculous. Formal, yes. Clunky, no.

The author of this Avengers Fairy tales book used about 3 or 4 times as much narration as they should have. In such a visual medium, this adaptation rally shouldn't have employed so much text. Simplify it and you don't need all the exposition. Otherwise, just write it out as an illustrated prose piece.

[paper]

And that marks my last message board squabble. The last one. Ever.

Mark me.

[oceanblue]

I am going to have to call Grimm clunky. The transitions that are made between the actions of the characters and the reprecutions of those actions are not always linear. He jumps from scene to scene without transition and the characters are kept individual even with interaction and never make a cohesive group.

Sorry it took me so long to reply but I decided to go back and read a few of the tales in order to ensure I was writing a response from what I believed and not just what I remembered of the tales.

As for there being too many words compared to the pictures I think that you are sadly mistaken. The dialog is the one thing that keeps the story from being absolutely monotonous since the story is already well known and it follows it so closely to the original.

[charlie-blix]

I think I see the problem you are having with the comic Paper. I think you wanted it to be about the fairy tales more than the Avengers.

I see this 4 shot being more about what these characters would be like if they were made in a fairy tale world. I think Kwok_Talk hit it on the the head with the pic he showed. Thats what makes this comic worth picking up. It's a new interpretation of these well known characters.

As far as the actual fairy tales part of the book they are really just following the disney stories. I see this as being a book that older comic readers might have fun reading to their kids. The kids get the fairy tales and the parents get the fun of figuring out what marvel character each person is.

At least thats why I like the books.

[kwok_talk]

1. Is Astrid a hipster?
2. Avengers Fairy Tales
3. ???

I look forward to whatever forum squabble I start up next. ;)

(Paper, I agree to disagree and didn't mean to make you feel attacked, so sorry if you felt that way)

[conorkilpatrick]

1. Is Astrid a hipster?
2. Avengers Fairy Tales
3. ???

I look forward to whatever forum squabble I start up next. ;)

(Paper, I agree to disagree and didn't mean to make you feel attacked, so sorry if you felt that way)

You are at the root of all that is evil in this forum, kwok.

[luthor]

You are at the root of all that is evil in this forum, kwok.

Not just this forum...everywhere....

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/8234/kwokbabyeater2bi5.png

[charlie-blix]

You are at the root of all that is evil in this forum, kwok.

Damn... I didn't know that position was currently filled. Can I still put in my resume?

[kwok_talk]

Not just this forum...everywhere....

I was just counting down the seconds until Luthor's pic (wonderfully genius!) popped up here.

[jgg0610]

Not just this forum...everywhere....

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/8234/kwokbabyeater2bi5.png

Been away for a while with work and this picture scared the sh!t outta me at first.

[labor_days]

Is that...is that a Skrull baby, Jessica's baby?

[luthor]

Once upon a time there was a boy named Kwok. Kwok hosted a popular internet podcast called Kwok Talk (http://kwoktalk.libsyn.com/). On one particular episode (http://kwoktalk.libsyn.com/index.php?post_id=325323), Kwok was very excited about a comic book called Secret Invasion. Kwok was so excited that he said he would eat a Skrull Baby (http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/newavengers/31/NA_Baby.jpg). The evil Mr. Luthor heard this exclamation and thought the friendly Kwok was demented. But it was really the evil Mr. Luthor that was demented because this was the mental image he's had in his head since.

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/4411/kwokbabyeater3ud2.png

Now everyone rush out and listen to one of my favorite podcasts by one of the nicest guys on the net.

[mikegraham6]

Now everyone rush out and listen to one of my favorite podcasts by one of the nicest guys on the net.
seconded

[paper]

Thirdedededded....


Hey, did anybody else going to NYCC get a mailing from Virgin Comics? I just got free copies of Dan Dare #5 and Jenna Jameson's Shadow Hunter #1 in the mail yesterday. Really wished it was Dan Dare #1 so I could start from the beginning. As for JJ Shadow Hunter, that is a strange looking book, for sure.

[kwok_talk]

Now everyone rush out and listen to one of my favorite podcasts by one of the nicest guys on the net.
My name is Kwok and I approve this message (except for the skrull baby eating part). Thanks everyone!

[superfriend82]

Titan was just ok i'll pick it up to where it's going.

Amazing spidy was a good read. I loved the spidy talk with homeless dude good stuff.I think art is good.

Echo was was great! I'll have to argee with Josh with the whole thing whre i did't know whos who at the end.

Tiny titan was just a good lazy sunday kind of thing.

[kahunablair]

I realized today that I didn't read either the new Booster Gold or the new Spidey.

I love Bacchalo, so of course this is going to sound biased, BUT I really enjoyed his art here. That cluttered-hard-to-figure-it-out style is gone. He actually uses the snow to keep it less cluttered. Good stuff.

As for Booster, I still love this series. Am I the only one that thinks this story seems to be going on a wee bit too long? I got a "Filler" issue vibe off of this one for some reason.

[labor_days]

Think Johns/Katz were stretching out the Blue/Gold team-up while they still had a credible excuse for them to be on that Earth instead of jumping in the time sphere. Doesn't seem we are going to have Ted around for too much longer.

It was fun though.

"Getting the gang back together", hehe.

[kahunablair]

Labor, do you read Blue Beetle?

The 25th issue that pretty much cultminated the entire storyline so far, had a JLI reformation in it. Fire, Ice, Guy Gardner, and Booster all join in the big battle.

[labor_days]

Waiting to read BB in trade. I got some of the early issues. But I might throw some love at the series via mail order.

[kahunablair]

You'll enjoy it. I'd imagine it's right up your alley.

Sadly I think that little "Re-Team up" kinda of took away from this new one in Booster.

[labor_days]

Yeah, I like Jamie lots. Just pulling too many book, ya'know?

BB was on my book to cut from my pull list thread way back, I think.

[charlie-blix]

I have a question about the Teen Titans and the new Titans comic. I picked up the new Titans comic and after reading it I thought I might as well go back and read the Teen Titan graphic novels. I know nothing about DC other than everything around batman.

Here's the thing Im lost on. I know that Dick Grayson use to be the leader of the Teen Titans but the ones I picked up Tim Drake is the leader. Am I reading the wrong graphics or what? I'm reading the 2nd Teen Titan graphic (Family Lost) first because I had to order the first one and I didn't want to wait till it came in to dig in. Should I go farther back or what?

[conorkilpatrick]

Here's the thing Im lost on. I know that Dick Grayson use to be the leader of the Teen Titans but the ones I picked up Tim Drake is the leader. Am I reading the wrong graphics or what? I'm reading the 2nd Teen Titan graphic (Family Lost) first because I had to order the first one and I didn't want to wait till it came in to dig in. Should I go farther back or what?

Tim Drake has been leading the Teen Titans since at least 2003. You have to go back to the 1990s to when Dick Grayson led the team, when they were called The Titans.

[charlie-blix]

Tim Drake has been leading the Teen Titans since at least 2003. You have to go back to the 1990s to when Dick Grayson led the team, when they were called The Titans.

Do you think I should read The Titans so I can better understand the new Titans book or should the Teen Titans run cover the whole Trigon thing? I'm down with doing the homework. I just don't want to read them if A) the old books aren't any good or B) Theres nothing needed in them

[conorkilpatrick]

Do you think I should read The Titans so I can better understand the new Titans book or should the Teen Titans run cover the whole Trigon thing? I'm down with doing the homework. I just don't want to read them if A) the old books aren't any good or B) Theres nothing needed in them

Hopefully it's being written so you won't have to because there have been A LOT of Titans books over the years. I wouldn't even know where to begin. Probably the Wolfman/Perez years is the most relevant stuff.

[charlie-blix]

Hopefully it's being written so you won't have to because there have been A LOT of Titans books over the years. I wouldn't even know where to begin. Probably the Wolfman/Perez years is the most relevant stuff.

Cool. Thanks Conor.

I might pick up the comics that have Grayson as the leader anyways because I'm really liking him in the Nightwing comics I'm reading right now.

[labor_days]

The Wolfman/Perez New Teen Titans is the most important to the Trigon bits. A lot of focus on Raven (Trigon's daughter) and Cyborg. The run happens to be excellent. So that's a plus.

[charlie-blix]

Was Trigon started in the Wolfman/Perez run? Or is he from something older?

[charlie-blix]

Okay I think I got it figured out.

The New Teen Titans (Wolfman / Perez)
The Titans
The Teen Titans
Titans

Thats the order... I guess ... ha. Hmm... I really don't know if I care enough to go back to the wolfman/perez ones ... although they never colected all of the "The Titans" comics in Graphic Novel form... arg... I might just start with The Teen Titans and say F it all.

[paper]

I love that Titans #1 is really more of an advertisement for previous Teen Titans related series as opposed to the thrilling start to a new ongoing.

[charlie-blix]

I love that Titans #1 is really more of an advertisement for previous Teen Titans related series as opposed to the thrilling start to a new ongoing.

I see what you mean but at the same time I'm kind of looking forward to the book. I know its kind of silly but I've never read a team book and I like the idea of it. Although after I read all of these damn back books I might see why there were so many people poo pooing the new one.

[paper]

Not that it makes any difference, but I never read the previous Titans books. I read maybe 4 issues of the most recent Teen Titans, but beyond that I had no attachment to the characters.

If you found something compelling in the issue, that's awesome. No way am I gonna poo poo that. Not at all.

I haven't decided whether or not to pick up Titans #2.

[charlie-blix]

I'm on for the ride although I have a strange feeling I'm going to enjoy reading all these older Teen Titan graphics than the new books.

[labor_days]

Wolfman/Perez era Titans are my favorite incarnation. But it really is asking a lot for a new reader to go back that far. To be honest, while Trigon is a big deal- I'm not sure a Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trigon_%28comics%29) can't get you up to speed on the relevant bits.

But the Geoff Johns Teen Titans is worth a read if you can get those trades cheaply. Fun stuff.

Rough Titans timeline

Teen Titans (1966-1984) -> New Teen Titans (1984-88) -> [New] Titans (1988-?) -> Teen Titans (2003-today)

[charlie-blix]

Wolfman/Perez era Titans are my favorite incarnation. But it really is asking a lot for a new reader to go back that far. To be honest, while Trigon is a big deal- I'm not sure a Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trigon_%28comics%29) can't get you up to speed on the relevant bits.

But the Geoff Johns Teen Titans is worth a read if you can get those trades cheaply. Fun stuff.

Rough Titans timeline

Teen Titans (1966-1984) -> New Teen Titans (1984-88) -> [New] Titans (1988-?) -> Teen Titans (2003-today)
Yeah... should be fun trying to catch up. But I do want to learn more about the DCU. I think I'm going to make it my main line. I thought about Marvel but I really don't like it as much.... I blame my love for batman comics and all of his sidekicks comics that go with it. I'm trying to read all the nightwing comics as well. I want to catch up to where its at now so I can start buying the comics.

Sometimes I think I put to much on my plate... ha.

[labor_days]

As long as you enjoy reading them, that is all that matters.

That sure is a lot of reading though. :)

Good luck.

[luthor]

New Teen Titans during the 80s was DC's biggest seller and usually went head to head sales wise with Uncanny X-men. It's a crime the DC hasn't started reprinting those books. They're awesome and hold up very well. They were some of the first books to take the "not just for kids" concepts and ran with it. Wolfman and Perez did very little wrong in those days.

[conorkilpatrick]

It's a crime the DC hasn't started reprinting those books.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51-5wJWbg8L._SS500_.jpg
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51C5AHV5KJL._SS500_.jpg

[charlie-blix]

New Teen Titans during the 80s was DC's biggest seller and usually went head to head sales wise with Uncanny X-men. It's a crime the DC hasn't started reprinting those books. They're awesome and hold up very well. They were some of the first books to take the "not just for kids" concepts and ran with it. Wolfman and Perez did very little wrong in those days.

Damnit Luthor stop making me want to read it that far back. I'm already buying 7 trades of the new titans... I don't want to hunt down floppys for the older comics... if only they would reprint it in graphic novel form.

[meccaed]

I read her wikipedia entry and I still couldn't tell you who Donna Troy is.

[charlie-blix]

@Conor

They have a couple out but they don't have the whole line... I thought about picking up the first couple they have but then I would have to wait who knows how long to read the rest of the books.

[conorkilpatrick]

@Conor

They have a couple out but they don't have the whole line... I thought about picking up the first couple they have but then I would have to wait who knows how long to read the rest of the books.

There are relatively few long runs on regular books that are completely collected.

[luthor]

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51-5wJWbg8L._SS500_.jpg
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51C5AHV5KJL._SS500_.jpg

Huh...well...you learn something new everyday. Off to Amazon I go...

[charlie-blix]

@Conor

So the Trades they have out of the New Teen Titans is everything? You kind of lost me.

[conorkilpatrick]

@Conor

So the Trades they have out of the New Teen Titans is everything? You kind of lost me.

You're correct that the entire Wolfman/Perez run isn't collected but what I'm saying is that that's not unusual. Most long runs aren't comprehensively collected. Even the seminal ones.

[labor_days]

I read her wikipedia entry and I still couldn't tell you who Donna Troy is.

Yeah, her history is super ridiculous.

The history of Donna Troy of New Earth they got down to a manageable level.

To wit~

Donna was created to be a playmate for the young Wonder Woman by the sorceress Magala. She was abducted by Dark Angel (who mistook her for the real Diana) and cursed to relive countless tragic lives. But it would not be until the intervention of Wonder Woman, Hippolyta, and the Flash years later that she would learn this.

Donna remembers being orphaned in a fire and being saved by the goddess Rhea. The mythological Titans on New Chronus raised her as one of twelve Titan Seeds, orphans from various planets who would have died if Rhea had not saved them. Each one was given the name of a place that worshipped the Titans, and Donna was given the last name of Troy in homage to the ancient city.

Donna was one of the founding members of the Teen Titans.

She married Terry Long, a college professor, and soon became pregnant. A Teen Titans group from the future soon confronted her, claiming that her son would threaten the future as Lord Chaos. Donna voluntarily gave up her powers to prevent this.

She later requested for her powers to be returned but was denied. She then joined the Darkstars and rejoined the Teen Titans as a Darkstar.

Terry later divorced Donna citing that her superhero role put the family in danger and gained sole custody of their son. She turned to teammate Kyle Rayner for comfort, but left him after Terry, Robert and Jennifer (Terry's daughter from his first marriage) were killed in a tragic accident.

An android named Indigo appeared, badly damaged and in need of repair. In her attempts to repair herself and call for aid from other androids, she caused a Superbot to go rogue during a meeting of the Teen Titans and Young Justice; Donna and Omen were killed during the attempts to stop it.

Donna was resurrected as the Goddess of the Moon. The truth about her past and New Cronus was explained by the Titan of the sun, Hyperion. Donna has been revealed to be a counterpart of Harbinger and the Dark Angel.

Dark Angel was the Earth-7 counterpart of Donna attempting to assimilate them all as a side effect of the Crisis on Infinite Earths.

The Titans of Myth then imprisoned themselves.

Donna gained all knowledge of her alternate selves and was entrusted with the Universe Orb by Harbinger.

[charlie-blix]

You're correct that the entire Wolfman/Perez run isn't collected but what I'm saying is that that's not unusual. Most long runs aren't comprehensively collected. Even the seminal ones.

Well that sucks. I would think they would collect it all together so people could spend money on buying all the back history. Weird.

[conorkilpatrick]

Well that sucks. I would think they would collect it all together so people could spend money on buying all the back history. Weird.

It's only recently that the companies have come around to embracing trade paperbacks and collections on a large scale. And even then they tend to focus on contemporary releases. And Dan Didio is on record as saying DC is focusing on monthly issues, which is why DC's trade program sucks in comparison to Marvel's.

[meccaed]

DC's trade program sucks in comparison to Marvel's.

To put it lightly.

[charlie-blix]

It's only recently that the companies have come around to embracing trade paperbacks and collections on a large scale. And even then they tend to focus on contemporary releases. And Dan Didio is on record as saying DC is focusing on monthly issues, which is why DC's trade program sucks in comparison to Marvel's.

Well blah on them. Maybe that was why it was so hard for me to find a comprehensive batman trade list. I thought it was weird that a third party had to give a timeline that the graphic novels are in.

I don't know if you've seen the site but its http://www.batmantrades.com/
I'm trying to collect all of these trades.

[labor_days]

Maybe it's because I tend to buy the superhero stuff in issues, but I don't mind either company's trade program.

Re: Titans #1

I never bought this up, because frankly, it's minor; but what time is this book taking place?

So, Donna stopped looking for Ray Palmer and went on an adventure with the Titans?

When did Nightwing get back from Tibet, go undercover in the criminal underworld, set up a base of operation in NYC and fight demons?

I mean seriously. The book was all over the damn place.

One of the things I dislike about Winick is his disregard for continuity at times*. You gotta make it fit a little better, dude.


*I am no Winick hater.

[charlie-blix]

Maybe it's because I tend to buy the superhero stuff in issues, but I don't mind either company's trade program.

Re: Titans #1

I never bought this up, because frankly, it's minor; but what time is this book taking place?

So, Donna stopped looking for Ray Palmer and went on an adventure with the Titans?

When did Nightwing get back from Tibet, go undercover in the criminal underworld, set up a base of operation in NYC and fight demons?

I mean seriously. The book was all over the damn place.

One of the things I dislike about Winick is his disregard for continuity at times*. You gotta make it fit a little better, dude.


*I am no Winick hater.

This is one reason why I've never wanted to read a team book before. It takes all these characters that are being developed and gives them to one guy to have his way with them. Most of what I've seen of this turns deep characters flat. But I know its not always like that... so heres hoping

[labor_days]

That's not endemic of team books at all though. Geoff Johns and Brian Bendis basically have disproved that for years now.

It is a frequent Winick misstep and relative to the weakness of the story in Titans #1.

[conorkilpatrick]

That's not endemic of team books at all though. Geoff Johns and Brian Bendis basically have disproved that for years now.

It is a frequent Winick misstep and relative to the weakness of the story in Titans #1.

Nah, it's totally normal for team books. If the team books make it all fit then that's the exception, rather than the rule. Team books cannot coincide with solo books, it never works out continuity wise. There's just too much going on. Johns can do it on JSA because hardly any of those characters show up in other books.

It's always been that way. Team books sort of exist in their own alternate timeline.

[horatio616]

Nah, it's totally normal for team books. If the team books make it all fit then that's the exception, rather than the rule. Team books cannot coincide with solo books, it never works out continuity wise. There's just too much going on. Johns can do it on JSA because hardly any of those characters show up in other books.

It's always been that way. Team books sort of exist in their own alternate timeline.

For me that was one of the few good things about the book. It already had enough continuity shenanegans going on as it is without added all that other stuff to it.