sign language.

[rabidbadger]

when I am coronated world wide belevolant dictator... :p

all elementary school kids are gonna learn sign language.

I was just at the post office and the young man ahead of me was deaf. The woman at the counter tried hard, but couldn't communicate with him. even with a pen and paper. I'm pretty sure he left with his issues unresolved...

Stuff like that shouldn't happen in this day and age. Everyone should learn sign language before they take a second language in jr. high, high school.

Any hearing impaired folks here, btw?

[Bohemian_Beauty]

Hmm.. Good point. I agree. I don't see it becoming a reality any time soon though. I don't think it even becomes an elective until you get to the college level.

[rabidbadger]

there's a kids show on pbs that teaches young kids signing basics here in town. what time is it on? friggen midnight!!!

[rabidbadger]

Hmm.. Good point. I agree. I don't see it becoming a reality any time soon though.

all the more reason for you all to elect me benevolent word dictator soon. :D

[Bohemian_Beauty]

there's a kids show on pbs that teaches young kids signing basics here in town. what time is it on? friggen midnight!!!

Yea. It's actually on a channel called Sprout. At least on DirectTV. I think it's called The Goodnight Show. That channel is on at my house 24/7. I'm stoked though. My daughter learns sign language and Spanish.

[Bohemian_Beauty]

all the more reason for you all to elect me benevolent word dictator soon. :D

If it's anything like world dictator, then sure! Just let me eat cake!

[ericjosepi]

Just let me eat cake!

Obligatory Cake is a Lie reference
http://photos-c.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v173/15/93/122100395/n122100395_30128610_5819.jpg


And we're back...

[kevincollateral]

i took sign language my senior year in high school. lots of fun. i want to go and take more classes...since i forgot pretty much all of it.

[comhcinc]

i think learning spanish is much more important. there really isn't that many deaf people in this country and modern medical is helping to reduce the numbers even more

[Bohemian_Beauty]

You can learn Spanish without taking classes. It's an easy language, and you hear it so often you pick up on it. I can talk to anyone with basic Spanish, and I've never taken a class.

Also.. I recommend Rosetta Stone for any language. :)

[lordbyron]

i think learning spanish is much more important. there really isn't that many deaf people in this country and modern medical is helping to reduce the numbers even more

I would have to agree there are far more spanish only speaking people in this country than deaf people. Remember I said in this country not necessarily legally.

[rabidbadger]

I was hoping this thread wouldn't go this way. the bi-lingual debate is a legit topic, but deserves it's own thread. I would really like this one to stick with the hearing impaired issues. thanks. :)

[ariastar]

I don't agree. I used to be "fluent" in ameslan (one of my dreams when I was younger was to be like Anne Sullivan, Helen Keller's teacher, a teacher for blind and/or deaf students, and I used to also read Braille), still know a good bit of it, but if paper and pen wasn't working, there were other issues. English and ameslan are the same language communicated differently, either by hands of written down. There's nothing preventing two people from writing. If that doesn't work, then signing won't either.

Since you can make your own sign for your name, my newest one is my right hand in an A making a C over my heart.


More beneficial for communication is requiring a second spoken language, though that doesn't seem to really be much benefit either. A lot of schools offer "fun" languages that the students in general aren't so likely to encounter. At the same time, offering only foreign languages local to where they are won't help those who plan to move away or go into an industry where a lot of people speak a different language.

The best that can be done though is to get people to understand that it's not the responsibility of the world to communicate with you, but your responsibility to communicate with the world. If it is everyone else's responsibility to communicate with you, then you have to make no effort and everyone else has to learn about everyone else. In the end, yeah, you'd have to communicate with everyone else, but the mindset that it's the problem of others if you can't understand each other removes from you some sense that you should be making an effort.

[rabidbadger]

I don't agree. ..There's nothing preventing two people from writing. If that doesn't work, then signing won't either...
true. he was way over at the other end of the counter, so not sure what was happening, while dealing with my own stuff. Just noticed it was awkward, and something I would like to see future generations avoid, is all.

[blackacid]

Growing up deaf (not completely as I do have some hearing, in terms of percentages it would be left=20% right=15%) I know how frustrating it is to have to deal with people. Which is probably why I'm not as social as I would like to be. Not being able to hear your friends, family, and every day people has an effect on you.
I won't go into the psychological and physical aspects as this is not what the OP intended, as this is another topic.

When I was younger I was lucky enough to have been fitted for a hearing aid and was able to hear somewhat. But I still had to go to a school where they specialize in the deaf. While there I was taught the basics of sign language. I was always fascinated by the beauty of the language.
I also learned how to do native american sign language from my uncle because he believed in keeping our heritage alive.

Problem now is that I never kept up with sign language and have become very rusty but any time I see it I can still understand the majority of what is being said. It is a very beautiful language and I think having people learn it just to understand it would be a good thing.

As for the deaf guy and the counter lady, yeah that's a kind of thing I deal with myself because some people just don't know how to deal with someone with a disability. But it sounds like it was a bit more complicated than just that. But I deal with that sort of thing on a daily bases and you develop a strong patience for things like that.

[masherscf]

I'll go one more on you. Parents should teach sign language to their pre-linguistic toddler children. Children as young as six-months can learn sign and use it to communicate with their parents about on a whole range of issues such as potty-time, snack-time and bed-time. Because my daughter was speech delayed, she was taught a variety of signs.

[skyz]

I'll go one more on you. Parents should teach sign language to their pre-linguistic toddler children. Children as young as six-months can learn sign and use it to communicate with their parents about on a whole range of issues such as potty-time, snack-time and bed-time. Because my daughter was speech delayed, she was taught a variety of signs.

that is smart

it makes for smarter kids and a more compassionate world

i think in some universities sign language suffices for your second language

it should be all universities and all high schools

learning to be aural kinesthetically teaches another way of learning

the more learning skills a kid has obviously the better

[blackacid]

I'll go one more on you. Parents should teach sign language to their pre-linguistic toddler children. Children as young as six-months can learn sign and use it to communicate with their parents about on a whole range of issues such as potty-time, snack-time and bed-time.

My mother was told by my doctor that I shouldn't learn sign language at an early age because I would be more prone to rely on sign language than to develop my speaking skills. Which is why the teachers didn't begin teaching me until the 2nd or 3rd grade.

[rabidbadger]

I'll go one more on you. Parents should teach sign language to their pre-linguistic toddler children. Children as young as six-months can learn sign and use it to communicate with their parents about on a whole range of issues such as potty-time, snack-time and bed-time. Because my daughter was speech delayed, she was taught a variety of signs.

wow. that is awesome. I never knew that. benevolent dictator edict hereby ammended! :D

[rabidbadger]

My mother was told by my doctor that I shouldn't learn sign language at an early age because I would be more prone to rely on sign language than to develop my speaking skills. Which is why the teachers didn't begin teaching me until the 2nd or 3rd grade.

that's a shame.

I live in rochester NY, we have a huge deaf population because we have a world renowned school for the deaf here. I am kinda bummed though, when in public events, social places, bars, etc, that the deaf folks hang together and don't mingle cause no one can just say, hi, and strike up a conversation. I've seen some cute folks I'd like to flirt with, etc, but I don't know how :(

[xibalba]

Only one sign I know all I need right now in my life. :D

[blackacid]

I live in rochester NY, we have a huge deaf population because we have a world renowned school for the deaf here. I am kinda bummed though, when in public events, social places, bars, etc, that the deaf folks hang together and don't mingle cause no one can just say, hi, and strike up a conversation. I've seen some cute folks I'd like to flirt with, etc, but I don't know how :(
Chances are the majority of them can read lips. Sure you won't be able to get too far but it's definitely a way to communicate.
And if you really want to be able to talk to them you could always learn the alphabet, it's 26 hand gestures and pretty easy to memorize. Albeit a little slow in communication but the deaf are able to understand you and you could understand them.

Here is an image of the chart http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/sign-language-1.jpg

[rabidbadger]

Only one sign I know all I need right now in my life. :D

haha. the Peace sign?

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Wicca%20&%20Witchcraft/peace_3.jpg

[xibalba]

Yep thats what the world need peace.

[scoobydiesel]

I had taken Sign in 9th grade, it was really neat and fun.
I had a friend in the class who was deaf and at times it was very hard to keep up with him but when you got it down it was awesome.

Sadly i have forgotten most of it now...He moved away after his grandmother died.

I keep telling myself i will take a class in college, just havent gotten around to it.

[rabidbadger]

Chances are the majority of them can read lips. Sure you won't be able to get too far but it's definitely a way to communicate.
And if you really want to be able to talk to them you could always learn the alphabet, it's 26 hand gestures and pretty easy to memorize. Albeit a little slow in communication but the deaf are able to understand you and you could understand them.

Here is an image of the chart http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/sign-language-1.jpg

actually I have been able to sign the alphabet since I was a kid, thing is, I can't "read" it fast enough... we used it to cheat on tests in 7th grade. haha.

[rabidbadger]

in fact I used to talk/sing to myself while signing the words. Just a fidget thing. never lost it, but now I just fidget with cigarettes. blah... can still spell faster than I can read it.

[ariastar]

Growing up deaf (not completely as I do have some hearing, in terms of percentages it would be left=20% right=15%) I know how frustrating it is to have to deal with people. Which is probably why I'm not as social as I would like to be. Not being able to hear your friends, family, and every day people has an effect on you.
I won't go into the psychological and physical aspects as this is not what the OP intended, as this is another topic.

When I was younger I was lucky enough to have been fitted for a hearing aid and was able to hear somewhat. But I still had to go to a school where they specialize in the deaf. While there I was taught the basics of sign language. I was always fascinated by the beauty of the language.
I also learned how to do native american sign language from my uncle because he believed in keeping our heritage alive.

Problem now is that I never kept up with sign language and have become very rusty but any time I see it I can still understand the majority of what is being said. It is a very beautiful language and I think having people learn it just to understand it would be a good thing.

As for the deaf guy and the counter lady, yeah that's a kind of thing I deal with myself because some people just don't know how to deal with someone with a disability. But it sounds like it was a bit more complicated than just that. But I deal with that sort of thing on a daily bases and you develop a strong patience for things like that.

My brother had hearing problems growing up, multiple surgeries, hearing loss, all that good stuff. I learned ameslan and then taught him some.

You know, there's this taboo against "noticing" a disability in America, probably many other countries too, as everyone is supposed to be treated the same, and this fosters a sense of wrongness at making any effort. So yeah, people don't know how to properly react, whether or not it's even okay to ask to assist someone who does need it left you offend them, etc..

With someone deaf, it shouldn't be an uncomfortable thing to write stuff down, but for a lot of people, it is, because they're supposed to ignore a disability.

[ariastar]

I would have to agree there are far more spanish only speaking people in this country than deaf people. Remember I said in this country not necessarily legally.

You may agree with this, but as I see it, if you (not aimed as YOU, but the general sense) go to another country and the primary language isn't your own, you'd better go be willing to learn that language or get the fuck out.

Until I was 13, I lived in an area full of illegal immigrants who were frustrated at ME for not speaking Spanish. Well, they came here knowing most people speak English, so it annoyed the everloving shit out of me that I was the one having to bend over backward, and I hate to say, but it did make me very intolerant of immigrants for a while, regardless of whether or not they knew English.

All in all, I don't mind those illegals who are here to try to work and make a living for themselves. Far better than born-Americans who see living on welfare as a right. So don't think I was talking ill about illegals.

But when I've been to Mexico, I dusted off my Spanish vocabulary and use that. If I were to ever move to say, Moscow, even though many speak English there, I'd learn Russian. If I wanted to move to a country and become integrated, it's my job to make the necessary changes. It is NOT the responsibility of those locals to go out of their way and change their language, customs, and laws for me. But that is exactly what America seems expected to do. America isn't allowed to have its own culture.

[comhcinc]

It is NOT the responsibility of those locals to go out of their way and change their language, customs, and laws for me. But that is exactly what America seems expected to do. America isn't allowed to have its own culture.

i agree so we can tell all those deaf people to go to hell. if they can't learn to speak and understand english they can just get the hell out. go to canada or somewhere.

[rabidbadger]

haha. but yeah. start a new thread about spanish, etc. lets stick with the deaf conversation here. thanks again.

[xibalba]

haha. but yeah. start a new thread about spanish, etc. lets stick with the deaf conversation here. thanks again.

Dude, you can't do that you have derailed threads yourself, so you can't complain when someone does it to one of yours.

[comhcinc]

so what you want is to proclaim that people learn to sign and everyone agree with you? doesn't sound like a very interesting convo to me

[rabidbadger]

both of you. my "conceit" (benevolent dictator) was just that. a fun way to start a conversation about the deaf and their obstructions. and how we hearing folk could make an effort to help. no anger involved. just a discussion. carry on :)

[ariastar]

i agree so we can tell all those deaf people to go to hell. if they can't learn to speak and understand english they can just get the hell out. go to canada or somewhere.

A good ol' fashioned paper and pen works just fine.

[ariastar]

both of you. my "conceit" (benevolent dictator) was just that. a fun way to start a conversation about the deaf and their obstructions. and how we hearing folk could make an effort to help. no anger involved. just a discussion. carry on :)

Since it's seen as a disability, I don't know that there's a way to be fun with it. So that won't work. :)

[lordbyron]

You may agree with this, but as I see it, if you (not aimed as YOU, but the general sense) go to another country and the primary language isn't your own, you'd better go be willing to learn that language or get the fuck out.

I agree with that. I think in order to become a citizen you should know the primary language of that country. But the problem with that is a lot of immigrants from Mexico do not try for citizenship. I am first generation American, when my grandfathers brought their family to the US the both said we speak English in this house. The only time Italian was spoken is when an Italian only speaking person came over.

Here in Chicago the were doing a crackdown on illegal immigrants and they interviewed a woman who had 2 children here and she was leagal but her husband was not and he was possibly go to get deported. Her reply was "he has been here for 15 years why should he be deported." My personal thoughts were 15 fucking years that was plenty of time to apply for citizenship. I figure he has a bad past or something keeping him from getting his citizenship. Well if that is the case I don't want him here. True he may work and spend money to help the economy BUT you know damn well he does not pay taxes. There a plenty of US citizens out of work that could fill his job.

[lordbyron]

haha. but yeah. start a new thread about spanish, etc. lets stick with the deaf conversation here. thanks again.

How many threads stay on topic? Not many, But we can't do it in yours? This is how conversations start. Even talking with friends in person do they always stay on the original topic started?

[rabidbadger]

true. I always agree with that. I was just thinking the native language idea is a good enough topic for it's own thread. is all. I'd start it my self, but I don't have a strong opinion on it one way or another. and seeing we do have a hearing impaired person join this thread, I'd like it to delve into that a bit more here.

to derail this very post, haha, if five people at a party in rl all start talking about "sign language" and then three of them start talking about "second languages" they usually just step to the side, (create a new thread) to continue the discussion, an let the other two continue the original topic...

and rev 3 aint nuthin if not a party. haha!!!

[heyseuss]

[QUOTE=rabidbadger;338396]when I am coronated world wide belevolant dictator... :p

all elementary school kids are gonna learn sign language.
/QUOTE]

I had a great teacher in grade six, who made all her kids learn sign language. After learning how to finger-spell, she took us to a deaf school, and made us sit in on a deaf kids class and function for a day with the deaf kids in their class with sign and finger-spell only. One of my sisters is about 70% deaf and wears invisible hearing aids.

Your story of the post office experience saddens me.

[rabidbadger]

that is a great teacher.

[ariastar]

I agree with that. I think in order to become a citizen you should know the primary language of that country. But the problem with that is a lot of immigrants from Mexico do not try for citizenship. I am first generation American, when my grandfathers brought their family to the US the both said we speak English in this house. The only time Italian was spoken is when an Italian only speaking person came over.

Here in Chicago the were doing a crackdown on illegal immigrants and they interviewed a woman who had 2 children here and she was leagal but her husband was not and he was possibly go to get deported. Her reply was "he has been here for 15 years why should he be deported." My personal thoughts were 15 fucking years that was plenty of time to apply for citizenship. I figure he has a bad past or something keeping him from getting his citizenship. Well if that is the case I don't want him here. True he may work and spend money to help the economy BUT you know damn well he does not pay taxes. There a plenty of US citizens out of work that could fill his job.

If someone's been here over X years, isn't there some sort of program where they can essentially fast-track for citizenship? Unfortunately it's not cheap. It's extremely expensive. Seems like it'd be more efficient to have people pay a low filing fee, give them a year and a temp work visa, and if they can prove themselves in that year as being contributing members of society, they can stay. But when you've got to have access to thousands of dollars before you can file, or an employer willing to sponsor, and the process is complicated enough that attorneys are sometimes needed, it's not hard to see why people bypass the process. It would be more efficient to get those who want to work in a position where they can pay taxes rather than keep them underground where they don't pay taxes, but still can't afford the cost of applying for citizenship. The money "lost" by having someone apply (and the fees are a couple thousand, which is only part of the money they have to come up with) would more than be made up for with the income taxes they'll pay in just a year or two.

Plenty of good people can't afford to buy citizenship when it can be hard enough just getting by. It'll cost me at Cody at least $5k for IVF and we make good money, yet that amount sounds impossible at times. How can someone making minimum wage be expected to see $10k (they say you've got to have money yourself for several months, and having a job lined up doesn't matter) as achievable? No matter how badly you want something, if the money isn't there, and won't be for many, many years, you lose hope, so look for loopholes.

If that man was working, it's possible he may have an employer willing to sponsor, if INS doesn't decide to go ahead and deport him first.

[ariastar]

[QUOTE=rabidbadger;338396]when I am coronated world wide belevolant dictator... :p

all elementary school kids are gonna learn sign language.
/QUOTE]

I had a great teacher in grade six, who made all her kids learn sign language. After learning how to finger-spell, she took us to a deaf school, and made us sit in on a deaf kids class and function for a day with the deaf kids in their class with sign and finger-spell only. One of my sisters is about 70% deaf and wears invisible hearing aids.

Your story of the post office experience saddens me.

It sounds like she was trying to broaden your minds. Exposing you to communication challenges some people have.

[vanden]

I have 2 born deaf sisters that I live with...They sign so fast I cant really ever understand them...and they can read my lips....While it does suck that I can call them while there upstairs or fair away....I do have some fun when there the only ones in the house. For one Music and Tv as load as i want,and I can stand right by them for a good 7 min without them hearing me,It also great to yell right at them but they cant hear a word your saying untill they put there hearing aids on..

I myself know a little sign.I can talk at a 4th greade level and can read at a 3ed greade level but you must sign real slow and I mean real slow. I can resite the Our Father, Hail Mary and Glory Be preety fast tho and know my abc real well.....

[ariastar]

I have 2 born deaf sisters that I live with...They sign so fast I cant really ever understand them...and they can read my lips....While it does suck that I can call them while there upstairs or fair away....I do have some fun when there the only ones in the house. For one Music and Tv as load as i want,and I can stand right by them for a good 7 min without them hearing me,It also great to yell right at them but they cant hear a word your saying untill they put there hearing aids on..

I myself know a little sign.I can talk at a 4th greade level and can read at a 3ed greade level but you must sign real slow and I mean real slow. I can resite the Our Father, Hail Mary and Glory Be preety fast tho and know my abc real well.....

Reading the alphabet's always been trickier for me than to do the talking. But regular words are easy either way. I actually miss signing.