'Fables' Official Discussion Thread

[iSteve]

Discussion about all things Fables.

[iSteve]

WAR HITS FABLES: TALKING TO BILL WILLINGHAM (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=154697)

by Vaneta Rogers

Even those comic book fans who haven't read the Vertigo series Fables are pretty familiar with the premise: Characters from various ancient and storybook fables have been driven from their homelands and are now forced to live among us here in the "real" world.

But not anymore!

In a move that is rare in comic books -- or any continuing story, for that matter -- the creators of Fables have taken the whole premise of the series and are throwing it out the window. Not only is there now an area of the homelands where Fables can choose to live, but all the characters are going to war to win back all of their homelands, and it's looking like they actually have a chance to succeed.

Winner of more Eisner Awards last year than you can shake an enchanted wand at, Fables has been thrilling readers recently as it has gotten closer and closer to the start of the war -- a march toward battle that has been building since the very beginning of the series, but has really stepped up in recent months. In fact, we found out at the end of last month's issue #71 that the war has just started, and readers are dying to know how it's going.

As issue #72 hits this week, we talked to writer Bill Willingham about the series, trying to get a handle on what happens next -- not only in the war, but in those issues that come after the battles are done and no longer follow the status quo that has been driving Fables since it started.

Newsarama: Let's start with what's going on with Fables right now. For readers and even non-readers, what can you tell them about the status of the story? The Fables are at war now, right?

Bill Willingham: The last we heard, in Fables #71, Cinderella the super-spy is under interrogation. In this case, one Hansel (of 'Hansel and Gretel' fame), wanted to know when Fabletown was starting its war against the Empire. And Cinderella laughs with relief and says, 'Oh, that. Well, that started a couple of days ago.'

So the war is underway.....

http://www.newsarama.com/Vertigo/Fables/War/Fables72.jpg

[jmstump]

I'm so far behind on this series. I really need to catch up.

[casually-drowned]

I'm so far behind on this series. I really need to catch up.

I am too, and it is because I really didn't care for Animal Farm. After reading it my interest waned and I moved on to other things. Of course, I have been told that once I get past that hump it gets better. I figure I am in no rush, and I can just leave the book for a time that I don't really have other things to read.

[valoharth]

Animal Farm thats the second trade right? I got it like six months or so ago but still haven't read it. I totally forgot about it untill I saw this thread.

[casually-drowned]

Animal Farm thats the second trade right? I got it like six months or so ago but still haven't read it. I totally forgot about it untill I saw this thread.

Yes, it is the second one.

[superfriend82]

i've only read the frist two trades. The frist one was great the sec was just ok.

[valoharth]

I've heard that you have to just pile through the first two trades of this series because it's just building up a universe. The third trade is supose to be money, baby. I think after I get caught up on Hellboy and Y this will be the next series I will concentrate on.

[horatio616]

The bad thing about waiting for the trade is that I can't remember anything about it in between. It always takes me a few pages into the next trade to remember what came before and after that, I'm okay. Right now, total blank.

[paper]

The two recent Cinderella themed issues have such intoxicatingly beautiful covers that I decided to give Fables another chance. Picked up volume 3 today.

[jakov42]

I started reading it in trades and picked up the first four and read them over a week. I did find that the second trade was a little tough to get into, and might have stopped if I had not already purchased 3 and 4. I am glad I kept with it and have been buying it in issues ever since.

It is the most consistant, quality book that I read. Every issue continues to build the story and add to the depth of the world.

It is the only book that I have gone back and purchased the trades that I already have in issue, so that I can reread it in the trade format as well. I would drop the monthly, but just do not want to wait that long.

[kahunablair]

I'm right there with you, jakov42.
This is one of my favorite series of all time. Heck, I even enjoyed the Animal Farm portion.
It's consistently a great read. I don't think there is an issue I haven't enjoyed.

[paper]

The big turn-off for me going in was the interior art.

[iSteve]

I don't understand what's with the Fables Animal Farm hate. I thought it was great - hilarious even. One of my favorite story arcs.

[conorkilpatrick]

Animal Farm has kept me from continuing with the series.

[mari0]

I've heard that you have to just pile through the first two trades of this series because it's just building up a universe. The third trade is supose to be money, baby. I think after I get caught up on Hellboy and Y this will be the next series I will concentrate on.


Personally, I was sold by the first trade however the story definitely does start to pick up by vol 3 and 4. Speaking of the first trade, I would like Lan Medina come back for an arc. Mark Buckingham is very good but I prefer Medina.

[charlie-blix]

As a whole I really like this book. It has a lot of cool things going for it. I could see a lot of spin off books being made off of this. The Jack spin off is a lot of fun and I would love to see a Wolf comic. I really like his character.

[itsbecca]

As a whole I really like this book. It has a lot of cool things going for it. I could see a lot of spin off books being made off of this. The Jack spin off is a lot of fun and I would love to see a Wolf comic. I really like his character.

Jack of Fables is, without a doubt, in my top 5 comics. I love Fables, but Jack of Fables he just goes a little off the deep end and it so tickles me in just the right places.

[charlie-blix]

Jack of Fables is, without a doubt, in my top 5 comics. I love Fables, but Jack of Fables he just goes a little off the deep end and it so tickles me in just the right places.

Jack is that guy that just says F-it I'm going to do what I want and I don't care what anyone else thinks. Of course thats why he always gets into trouble.

It's good stuff.

[esophagus]

I have been saying "I know ANimal Farm is the low point, so I'll continue at some point" but I have finally decided no. When packing up my books to sell I realized I have no desire to continue.

[itsbecca]

I have been saying "I know ANimal Farm is the low point, so I'll continue at some point" but I have finally decided no. When packing up my books to sell I realized I have no desire to continue.

Why not just skip animal farm? I don't understand this all or nothing thing.

[charlie-blix]

Why not just skip animal farm? I don't understand this all or nothing thing.

I agree, God knows Batman has had some piss pore runs, as well as many other comics out there. This doesn't mean the whole comic is bad though.

Well to each their own I guess.

[itsbecca]

I agree, God knows Batman has had some piss pore runs, as well as many other comics out there. This doesn't mean the whole comic is bad though.

Well to each their own I guess.

You and me Charlie. We're on a roll tonight.

[charlie-blix]

You and me Charlie. We're on a roll tonight.

I concur

[conorkilpatrick]

Batman comics and Fables are not really comparable.

Fables (along with Jack of Fables) is a self-contained, continuing narrative, whose vision is directed by one guy. It's a cohesive story.

Batman comics are a decades long tapestry of different, books, writers, visions, and continuities. If Batman hits a bad patch, a new writer or story or continuity will come along.

[charlie-blix]

Batman comics and Fables are not really comparable.

Fables (along with Jack of Fables) is a self-contained, continuing narrative, whose vision is directed by one guy. It's a cohesive story.

Batman comics are a decades long tapestry of different, books, writers, visions, and continuities. If Batman hits a bad patch, a new writer or story or continuity will come along.

I would agree if it wasnt for the fact that there can be a "bad patch" from a writer who also has a lot of good runs.

I haven't been reading Batman but I heard that a lot of people didn't like this last run of comics but that they think the guy has done a lot of good on the comic.

Didn't some guy just say he liked everything but for mite-bat?

[paper]

Yeah, I felt that if I skipped a volume of Fables it would be like skipping a volume of Y The Last Man. It's not an irrational completist compulsion. It's just getting the whole story.

[paper]

I would agree if it wasnt for the fact that there can be a "bad patch" from a writer who also has a lot of good runs.

I haven't been reading Batman but I heard that a lot of people didn't like this last run of comics but that they think the guy has done a lot of good on the comic.

Didn't some guy just say he liked everything but for mite-bat?

Fables is practically a one-shot or mini compared to Batman. It's not the fact that it's only being written by one guy. It's just that it's more of a linear thing. Fables is to Lost/Battlestar Galactica (finite) as Batman is to Days of Our Lives (infinite).

[charlie-blix]

Fables is practically a one-shot or mini compared to Batman. It's not the fact that it's only being written by one guy. It's just that it's more of a linear thing. Fables is to Lost/Battlestar Galactica (finite) as Batman is to Days of Our Lives (infinite).

I could see that. I don't know though because it feels like there is a lot of branching story lines. Like 1001 Nights is a branched story as well as Jack. So thats two random stories.

I guess where I see this being more (infinite) is with so many back stories you can go through. That and there are so many different fable communities in the book that it feels like there could be a lot to brach out with.

[paper]

Oh, sure, there's potential for it being infinite, but this is streams and oceans we're talking about with that comparison. All I'm arguing is that there are about a dozen Fables trades out there and they're numbered. There isn't a limitless number of Batman trades, but I wouldn't want to have to list them.

[itsbecca]

While I agree that the Batman analogy doesn't work (woah, totally selling you out. There goes kinship) Think about it this way. I definitely think you can jump on these types of titles with no problem. It is the completist attitude to think you can't.

No we're not running on issues in the 600s. But I'm pretty confident saying that not all current Fable readers have been on from issue one. (Sit back and think of time for a second. Assuming a regular monthly schedule of 12 books a year, even double digit tales can rack up time wise.) And it's just not a financially viable way of doing things for anyone trying to get on a story to have to read the entire back catalog first. I know you guys know that, and I know you don't work that way. How is that so different from skipping over an arc? Especially if that one portion of the story is sticky enough to stop you from reading altogether, even though you know the future arcs would be of interest to you. That's just damn silly.

[paper]

I think it's also that it's only the second arc. The world is still building. Generally you're going to get more fundamental information in the beginning, building to a narrative plateau.

[charlie-blix]

Oh, sure, there's potential for it being infinite, but this is streams and oceans we're talking about with that comparison. All I'm arguing is that there are about a dozen Fables trades out there and they're numbered. There isn't a limitless number of Batman trades, but I wouldn't want to have to list them.

Oh I'm not trying to say it has that depth I'm just saying there is no reason to feel the need to have to start from the beginning.

[conorkilpatrick]

While I agree that the Batman analogy doesn't work (woah, totally selling you out. There goes kinship) Think about it this way. I definitely think you can jump on these types of titles with no problem. It is the completist attitude to think you can't.

No, it's not a completest attitude, it's that just about everyone I know who reads Fables talks about the epic take that Bill Willingham is weaving and the fact the stories and characters from the beginning become relevant later on and to truly appreciate what is happening you should read from the beginning.

Could I jump on in the middle? Sure. Do I want to? Hell, no. If I decide to read the story it's going to be starting from chapter one, not chapter thirty seven.

[charlie-blix]

No, it's not a completest attitude, it's that just about everyone I know who reads Fables talks about the epic take that Bill Willingham is weaving and the fact the stories and characters from the beginning become relevant later on and to truly appreciate what is happening you should read from the beginning.

Could I jump on in the middle? Sure. Do I want to? Hell, no. If I decide to read the story it's going to be starting from chapter one, not chapter thirty seven.

I kind of see this comic as another Sandman. It's all by one guy and it weaves a great story throughout but there are some story arcs in it that are not that great.

[conorkilpatrick]

I kind of see this comic as another Sandman. It's all by one guy and it weaves a great story throughout but there are some story arcs in it that are not that great.

Right. Exactly. It's a finite story by one author.

Therefore, if you don't like a part of it, especially early on, it makes sense to not be in a hurry to continue on.

[itsbecca]

No, it's not a completest attitude, it's that just about everyone I know who reads Fables talks about the epic take that Bill Willingham is weaving and the fact the stories and characters from the beginning become relevant later on and to truly appreciate what is happening you should read from the beginning.

Could I jump on in the middle? Sure. Do I want to? Hell, no. If I decide to read the story it's going to be starting from chapter one, not chapter thirty seven.

That's pretty complimentary attitude for someone who's... not reading the book. I mean I appreciate it, because I like the book. But again the word "silly" comes to mind. All I'm saying is that it is not at all uncommon to hop onto books later in their runs, just because that's the name of the game. AND back to the original reply to Eso specifically... if given the choice of slicing out one trade or not reading the series at all I'd say the former is more favorable. For you. For Mr. Willingham. For Vertigo. For me and the rest of the nosey fans who want everyone to love the series as much as us. Because right now he's saying he's straight up out.

[conorkilpatrick]

That's pretty complimentary attitude for someone who's... not reading the book. I mean I appreciate it, because I like the book. But again the word "silly" comes to mind.

I'm just parroting back what I've been told. I'm sure it's epic for those who like it.

All I'm saying is that it is not at all uncommon to hop onto books later in their runs, just because that's the name of the game.

For infinite series, sure. Not for finite series.

AND back to the original reply to Eso specifically... if given the choice of slicing out one trade or not reading the series at all I'd say the former is more favorable. For you. For Mr. Willingham. For Vertigo. For me and the rest of the nosey fans who want everyone to love the series as much as us. Because right now he's saying he's straight up out.

If he doesn't like it, he should be straight up out.

[charlie-blix]

Right. Exactly. It's a finite story by one author.

Therefore, if you don't like a part of it, especially early on, it makes sense to not be in a hurry to continue on.

I guess I never thought of Sandman as having one plot or story. Just because there are some arcs I didn't like I didn't feel like it showed the comic as a whole was bad.

I thought we were talking about if one should not read a comic at all because of not enjoying one story arc out of many? If all we are talking about is if one should wait longer to see how the comic goes before reading it than I'm all for that.

[itsbecca]

If he doesn't like it, he should be straight up out.

I completely agree with that sentiment, just not in this case. Animal Farm is infamously regarded as poor comparatively, even by some devout fans. I hardly think it fair to use it as a yardstick for the series.

[conorkilpatrick]

I thought we were talking about if one should not read a comic at all because of not enjoying one story arc out of many?

Except that there's a difference between finite and infinite comics.

[charlie-blix]

Except that there's a difference between finite and infinite comics.

So if there is even one arc that one does not like in comics such as Sandman, Preacher, Transmet, or such one should not read the rest of the comics?

[itsbecca]

I'm stymied by this logic as well. I guess it's near blasphemous to consider breaking up a piece of art by skipping an arc... but if you don't like an arc you shouldn't read the book at all...

[conorkilpatrick]

So if there is even one arc that one does not like in comics such as Sandman, Preacher, Transmet, or such one should not read the rest of the comics?

Yes, if you read an early arc and don't like it, I think it makes total sense that you wouldn't be in a hurry to continue on.

[kahunablair]

I'm stymied by this logic as well. I guess it's near blasphemous to consider breaking up a piece of art by skipping an arc... but if you don't like an arc you shouldn't read the book at all...

I would normally be right there beside you, Becca, but I can't be in this situation. Honestly, every arc means something in this series, whether it was a home run or not. Look at the issue that came out today.
There was a crap load of call backs to things you would have never given second thoughts to before.

[charlie-blix]

Yes, if you read an early arc and don't like it, I think it makes total sense that you wouldn't be in a hurry to continue on.

Be in a hurry or just straight up and not read the rest?

Because again... I agree if you are saying you are waiting till more comes out... but if you are saying you are just never going to read it again because of one story arc when you know there are a lot of arcs out that people say are really good than I don't get it... thats all.

But yeah I guess I couldn't imagine not reading the rest of sandman if it was only because I didn't like Doll House, especially if I knew that people who have read the rest of the books after Doll House agree that the other stories are really good.

Again... Saying you are never coming back to something and saying you are dragging your feet are two different things.

[conorkilpatrick]

I would normally be right there beside you, Becca, but I can't be in this situation. Honestly, every arc means something in this series, whether it was a home run or not. Look at the issue that came out today.
There was a crap load of call backs to things you would have never given second thoughts to before.

This is what I'm saying.

[mikegraham6]

I would agree if it wasnt for the fact that there can be a "bad patch" from a writer who also has a lot of good runs.

I haven't been reading Batman but I heard that a lot of people didn't like this last run of comics but that they think the guy has done a lot of good on the comic.

Didn't some guy just say he liked everything but for mite-bat?
just look at the whole "Deadpool" arc of Ultimate Spider-Man

[paper]

though I'm firmly in the Conor and Blair camp here, I do get what you're saying, Becca.

What it boils down to is this. It wouldn't kill us to jump in on the series after the second trade. It may even be worth our while. The first two trades barely gave me evidence of the quality being talked about by the avid fans, but I do trust you guys, and that's why I picked up vol. 3. We'll see how it goes. Ultimately, Fables has a good sized following of devoted readers, and the reason it isn't a bigger following is because it fumbled quite early. And in a line and a market where there are, as we can all attest, a surplus of incredible edible books to try, it's getting picked last for dodgeball.

[jon_samuelson]

Well, this seems like the location for such a discussion at long last....

Could one of you guys who didn't like "Animal Farm" explain what it is that you didn't like about it. I know I come at this from a biased perspective, as I adore Fables, and I really, really enjoyed the Animal Farm arc. So if you could be a little more in depth than "It sucked" or "I hated the art" (these are the sorts of things I've heard in the past), I'd be really interested to hear your perspective.

[paper]

I'm starting it back at one again like Brian McKnight. I'll try and come up with some reasonable explanation for my dislike of volume 2.

[kahunablair]

Well, this seems like the location for such a discussion at long last....

Could one of you guys who didn't like "Animal Farm" explain what it is that you didn't like about it. I know I come at this from a biased perspective, as I adore Fables, and I really, really enjoyed the Animal Farm arc. So if you could be a little more in depth than "It sucked" or "I hated the art" (these are the sorts of things I've heard in the past), I'd be really interested to hear your perspective.

I enjoyed it as well, Jon.
The one complaint I head is that it seems to take the "Real" world grounding of the first trade and turns it on it's head. This is probably the excuse that I can see the most agreement with.

The funny thing is, if that's the reason you are dropping the book, then I can't see you enjoying the rest of the series. This series has the ability to shift scenes, styles, and locales better then any book I've seen in a while.

Want a love Arc? Got it.
Army Arc? Got it.
Comedic Arc? Got it.
Epic, Lord of the Rings style Arc? Got it.
Spy arc? Got it.
Pulp Noir? Got it.

[esophagus]

I'm stymied by this logic as well. I guess it's near blasphemous to consider breaking up a piece of art by skipping an arc... but if you don't like an arc you shouldn't read the book at all...
Friend: Hey, there's a really good series of books you should be reading.
Me: I read the first one, and it was okay, but not great.
Friend: Well then you will probably hate the second one, but I promise it gets good afterwards.

It's just not a good sell for me.

As far as just skipping it goes... No. Lets say a four issue miniseries comes out. The first issue is good, the second issue is shit. Everyone tells you the next two are EXCELLENT. Does that make it irrational for you to drop the book? Not one bit. This is that, just expanded.

[horatio616]

I have been saying "I know ANimal Farm is the low point, so I'll continue at some point" but I have finally decided no. When packing up my books to sell I realized I have no desire to continue.


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/taintedlunch/cody2.jpg

[horatio616]

I'm starting it back at one again like Brian McKnight.

+2 street cred

[itsbecca]

Friend: Hey, there's a really good series of books you should be reading.
Me: I read the first one, and it was okay, but not great.
Friend: Well then you will probably hate the second one, but I promise it gets good afterwards.

It's just not a good sell for me.

As far as just skipping it goes... No. Lets say a four issue miniseries comes out. The first issue is good, the second issue is shit. Everyone tells you the next two are EXCELLENT. Does that make it irrational for you to drop the book? Not one bit. This is that, just expanded.

I completley completley am on the boat that you shouldn't feel it necessary to trudge to things you won't enjoy to get to the good later. Completley. You only have so much money, you only have so much time.

I guess I'm alone on the skipping thing, but it still makes absolute sense to me. In my opinion, all or nothing attitudes about pretty much anything in life are severely faulty. Maybe it's just because I can still remember when I started into the foray of monthlies and I really had to drop the attitude or I was never going to be able to catch on in anything. (Aside: Didn't Ron recently pick up Invincible? Oh let me guess. That series is just to different to make a comparison! Blah blah blah.)

Now if you fall in love? You go back and catch up. I don't think it just absolutley RUINS the integrity of a series to approach it this way. Maybe after knowing the characters a bit you'll appreciate Animal Farm more. Or maybe you won't. Either way I'm quite convinced you all have to much damn money. Tell me your secrets to sucess.

[esophagus]

I guess I'm alone on the skipping thing, but it still makes absolute sense to me.Its like looking at a painting that someone tore the middle out of. I just won't, excuse the pun, get to see the big picture.(Aside: Didn't Ron recently pick up Invincible? Oh let me guess. That series is just to different to make a comparison! Blah blah blah.) The series isn't different, Ron is. Perhaps he would be on board with skipping the second trade of Fables, we don't know. I wouldn't get on board with Invincible this far in either.

[horatio616]

I know I'll never watch The Sopranos because, even though I know it's good, I'm certain I won't like the ending. Is that the same thing?

[paper]

Ron read Invincible in trade and then caught up in issues to read the new monthlies as they come out.

I like serialized storytelling. I choose to watch from the beginning where I can, somewhat out of respect for the writer(s), as that is how the story was intended to be told.

[conorkilpatrick]

Could one of you guys who didn't like "Animal Farm" explain what it is that you didn't like about it. I know I come at this from a biased perspective, as I adore Fables, and I really, really enjoyed the Animal Farm arc. So if you could be a little more in depth than "It sucked" or "I hated the art" (these are the sorts of things I've heard in the past), I'd be really interested to hear your perspective.

There's a whole thread devoted to Animal Farm (http://revision3.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6871).

[conorkilpatrick]

(Aside: Didn't Ron recently pick up Invincible? Oh let me guess. That series is just to different to make a comparison! Blah blah blah.)

As paper said Ron has been on Invincible since #1. He just switched from trades to issues. Not sure how that's relevant since he isn't in this conversation and hasn't expressed any opinions on the matter.

[itsbecca]

I really really really REALLY would be flabbergasted if a creator were peeved by someone telling them, "Hey I started your book and I really love it. Now I'm going back and catching." Is there first thought going to be, "What a jerk." or "New fan, that's good!" I don't know. Maybe I'm giving them to much credit and creators are dicks. It just seems to me. That's why the best books are accessible to new readers. That's why books put out jumping on points. That's why there's "What happened last week" sections to catch you up. I understand if it's a personal preference to avoid doing that, but saying that that is the proper (or especially only) way to do things is just... look... I'm going to go ahead and say wrong. You're just wrong. Yep.

As paper said Ron has been on Invincible since #1. He just switched from trades to issues. Not sure how that's relevant since he isn't in this conversation and hasn't expressed any opinions on the matter.

I'm alone against like 5 people. I will take any and all examples I can get and he came to mind. I remembered wrong, so sucks for me, but oh well. Look above.

[esophagus]

I really really really REALLY would be flabbergasted if a creator were peeved by someone telling them, "Hey I started your book and I really love it. Now I'm going back and catching." Is there first thought going to be, "What a jerk." or "New fan, that's good!" I don't know. Maybe I'm giving them to much credit and creators are dicks. It just seems to me. That's why the best books are accessible to new readers. That's why books put out jumping on points. That's why there's "What happened last week" sections to catch you up. I understand if it's a personal preference to avoid doing that, but saying that that is the proper (or especially only) way to do things is just... look... I'm going to go ahead and say wrong. You're just wrong. Yep.Okay, I'll just do the same to you. You're wrong.

[paper]

It's not the only way to read something, but if a writer doesn't intend for you to read it in that order, they wouldn't have put it out. Read it however you want. I just don't pick up novels and start on chapter 14, see how I feel about it, and then decide to start it back at one (like Brian McKnight).

I'm also a fan of trades. If I can avoid buying something in singles, I will. I'd much rather have a collection of trades that I will revisit from time to time, than a pile of singles that will most likely never get my return attention. So I'm gonna start from the beginning. Which a nun in Switzerland once said was a very good place to start. I like beginnings too. I like writing them and reading them. I like them better than middles and ends. It's the moment of discovery.

Also, I didn't know Animal Farm was the low point of the series. I thought I was just buying the next in what was reported to be an engaging and delightful series whose concept appeals to me on so many levels.

[conorkilpatrick]

My brain just exploded from the merging of Brian McKnight and Julie Andrews.

[horatio616]

Paper, you're turning me on with Brian McKnight references.

Personally, I would never skip trades or start in the middle of a finite story. I want it all. I'm the same way with tv shows and movies. I'd never just watch Buffy Season 4 or watch Army of Darkness without seeing Evil Dead I and II first.

Now, with ongoing comics, I have to compromise a bit, because I know I'll never get to read 700 issues of Action Comics. With Fables however, I'd prefer to start at the beginning and read it all, even the "bad" parts. (I liked "Animal Farm" however.)

[kahunablair]

Wow, apparently 10 months have clouded my judgement of Animal Farm.
I'm a huge Fables fan, and even I'd have to agree with Conor on some of his points.
I wouldn't have dropped the book, but I wasn't nearly as happy with the Animal Farm storyline, as the rest of the series. It drug on a little long with out a really good solid ending.

That being said I'd have to recommend the "March of the Wooden Soldiers" and "Homelands" as being my favorite storylines. They pretty much cemented me into the story.

I really don't feel that much "dislike" towards it these days. Time to go back and re-read it!

[itsbecca]

Okay, I'll just do the same to you. You're wrong.

Well that's cute, because my post included examples to back up my point.

It's just a bit frustrating to be in a group of people looking at the sky and saying "What a pretty blue." and having them all look at you and say, "What? That's green." It just seems abundantly clear that creators want you reading their work. When down to the choice of do I read their work or not read their work, which is essentially what you said. Not do I read all of it or do I read some of it? Do I read all of it or do I read no more of it. That is what I was responding to.

It's not the only way to read something, but if a writer doesn't intend for you to read it in that order, they wouldn't have put it out. Read it however you want. I just don't pick up novels and start on chapter 14, see how I feel about it, and then decide to start it back at one (like Brian McKnight).

Different medium. Moot point. Please look to the examples of how the comic industry tries to induct new readers to series on a regular basis.


I'm also a fan of trades. If I can avoid buying something in singles, I will. I'd much rather have a collection of trades that I will revisit from time to time, than a pile of singles that will most likely never get my return attention. So I'm gonna start from the beginning. Which a nun in Switzerland once said was a very good place to start. I like beginnings too. I like writing them and reading them. I like them better than middles and ends. It's the moment of discovery.

I'm glad you know what your like and I do not intend to infringe on what you, yourself like.

Also, I didn't know Animal Farm was the low point of the series. I thought I was just buying the next in what was reported to be an engaging and delightful series whose concept appeals to me on so many levels.

This annoys me. I never said it was. It just has been thought so by many people and that feeling was directly stated why Eso is not continuing with the series.

[kahunablair]

.... or watch Army of Darkness without seeing Evil Dead I and II first.

I did, and I have yet to see the Evil Dead films. Yet I have two DVDs of Army.

[paper]

My brain just exploded from the merging of Brian McKnight and Julie Andrews.

A team of grad students is going over the Connect the Dots pages from my old activity books. One of the researchers, a cute redhead named Judith, phoned me at 3AM. "If you notice a van following you, try to lose yourself in a crowd. Just keep running. Don't let them--" And then the line went dead.

[horatio616]

I did, and I have yet to see the Evil Dead films. Yet I have two DVDs of Army.

Only two? And you call yourself a fan?

[itsbecca]

Evil Dead 1 had really nothing to do with the rest of the series... but that's another discussion entirely.

(I saw Army of Darkness prior to seeing Evil Dead 2 and had no problem whatsoever. That's why there's a little bit in the beggining to catch you up to why some dude has a chainsaw arm. Kind of like in comics! FANCY THAT!)

[horatio616]

A team of grad students is going over the Connect the Dots pages from my old activity books. One of the researchers, a cute redhead named Judith, phoned me at 3AM. "If you notice a van following you, try to lose yourself in a crowd. Just keep running. Don't let them--" And then the line went dead.

Now there's a good idea for a story if I've ever heard one.

[esophagus]

Well that's cute, because my post included examples to back up my point.

It's just a bit frustrating to be in a group of people looking at the sky and saying "What a pretty blue." and having them all look at you and say, "What? That's green." It just seems abundantly clear that creators want you reading their work. When down to the choice of do I read their work or not read their work, which is essentially what you said. Not do I read all of it or do I read some of it? Do I read all of it or do I read no more of it. That is what I was responding to.Perhaps a smiley was necessary? I just assumed you were done with the argument.

There are hundreds of books out there. I'm guessing all of their creators want me to read the books. I can't. I'd rather pick the ones I enjoy than ones that didn't show me anything good.This annoys me. I never said it was. It just has been thought so by many people and that feeling was directly stated why Eso is not continuing with the series.I didn't call it the low point. How can I? I haven't read the rest. There's a good possibility I won't enjoy the rest. I've been told it is the low point, and apparently that is a reason for me to continue. I disagree.

[itsbecca]

I didn't call it the low point. How can I? I haven't read the rest. There's a good possibility I won't enjoy the rest. I've been told it is the low point, and apparently that is a reason for me to continue. I disagree.

I didn't say you did. I meant hearing that sentiment is what's stopping you from buying the book. Again I'm totally okay with you saying "Yeah but there's all this over here that I KNOW I will like." I was just throwing another option out there since it's a great series.

[conorkilpatrick]

You know, it had been a while since we heard form the Fables fans and they were starting to get usurped by the Umbrella Academy fans, but now they have fully reasserted their position as the new Sandman fans.

Congratulations, everyone! :D

[paper]

Becca, the whole argument is centered around your suggestion to skip over a trade/arc. If I didn't know I wouldn't like the second arc, why would I skip over it? It's a hung jury because my ideal is to read the comic narrative from the beginning and yours seems to be to read right now, to be caught up on what's happening. In the short term, that's more affordable, but I inherently dislike singles when compared to trades. If I'm to invest my money on something I'd rather pay more upfront to have something I can put on my shelf and read again. Given that preference, why not start at the beginning?

Also, my comparison to the novel was tongue in cheek, yeah, but it's not entirely moot. A finite narrative like Fables is structured like a long novel or series of novels. Each arc is a chapter. Catch-up points are great for Batman which couldn't possibly be condensed into a novel structure. It's infinite, not linear. Can I catch up on Fables at a later trade or single? Sure, but I'd rather get the whole picture, as Eso mentioned.

[esophagus]

I didn't say you did. I meant hearing that sentiment is what's stopping you from buying the book. Again I'm totally okay with you saying "Yeah but there's all this over here that I KNOW I will like." I was just throwing another option out there since it's a great series.That's basically what it comes down to. Your opinion. I dropped it because it wasn't good. You didn't. You telling me it got good afterwards isn't enough for me to want to continue, and certainly isn't enough for me to start over in the middle. So it goes.

[itsbecca]

See Pol! We're onto something because you hit on PREFERENCES! I want to be in the thick of the story right now and am truly not bothered by both reading early trades and the current issues at the same time. This way obviously would ruffle your tail feathers quite a bit. But we're both happy and able to go about what we personally prefer.

Now the issue of jumping in on the middle and skipping an arc entirely are somewhat different. I was going to bring everyone together on the first point then move up to the second. I'm not even touching the skipping yet. But apparently I CAN'T get agreement on that, so I fail altogether with this crowd. Which is still leaving me just entirely flabbergasted. I just don't see the point of, lets try Invincible again, doing a catch up, jump on issue if that's contrary to the goal of comics. Can one of you on the other side of the river please explain that to me?

[kahunablair]

You know, it had been a while since we heard form the Fables fans and they were starting to get usurped by the Umbrella Academy fans, but now they have fully reasserted their position as the new Sandman fans.

Congratulations, everyone! :D

We are quite Militant and defensive, aren't we?

[gobo]

With all this talk about Fables being finite, do we have an announced endpoint yet?

[paper]

We're in the TIVO Age. We can start the story when we want to. I like knowing that new stuff is coming out, but I control the pace (to an extent). It's like a Quicktime video. I let the damn thing load first, at least let the bar fill up a little so it has some lead on me. Then I hit play. I don't want to get invested at the cusp, only for the thing to stall out. i don't want to wait another month. Let the horizon build. Pull back and reel it in.

[conorkilpatrick]

We are quite Militant and defensive, aren't we?

Don't ever let anyone tell ya different!

[kahunablair]

Well, if they try to tell me any different I'll just slit their throats.

[kahunablair]

With all this talk about Fables being finite, do we have an announced endpoint yet?

The Endpoint was originally the war we're reading now. He wanted to have everything culminate with an epic battle.

He recently came out and said that he came up with a bunch of great ideas for what could happen after the war. So now he's not going to finish the series up like planned.

[paper]

Well, if they try to tell me any different I'll just slit their throats.

Just make them read Fables volume 2.

[itsbecca]

We're in the TIVO Age. We can start the story when we want to. I like knowing that new stuff is coming out, but I control the pace (to an extent). It's like a Quicktime video. I let the damn thing load first, at least let the bar fill up a little so it has some lead on me. Then I hit play. I don't want to get invested at the cusp, only for the thing to stall out. i don't want to wait another month. Let the horizon build. Pull back and reel it in.

This isn't arguing anymore, it's just explaining yourself right?

Me? I'm far to antsy. Although, ironically, I know it's all in my head. I watch television shows almost exclusively on dvds or online. Last week I missed the 30 Rock/Office block and while they're my two of my very tip top favorite shows I completley forgot to watch them online till yesterday. And to bring it back around I'm slowly starting to resign to read certain books in trade, but Fables is one I'm already in and wouldn't drop it for the world just because I still have some catching up to do.

[conorkilpatrick]

Well, if they try to tell me any different I'll just slit their throats.

I imagine it more as a frenzied stabbing.

"WHY... DON'T... YOU... JUST... LOVE... IT..."

[paper]

This isn't arguing anymore, it's just explaining yourself right?



Best offense is a strong defense, yo.

[itsbecca]

Best offense is a strong defense, yo.

I just... have no interest in picking apart your personal opinion of how you do things. That just seems rude, because you're entirely valid. But instead of being considered valid, I'm considered stabby.

Which. Is actually quite valid.



Watch your backs.

[kahunablair]

I imagine it more as a frenzied stabbing.

"WHY... DON'T... YOU... JUST... LOVE... IT..."

I'll actually use the trades to slice their throats. Then I'd rub their faces in it like they were a bad dog.

"Look what you did! Why did you do that?? Bad, bad comic reader!"

[humphrey-lee]

You know, it had been a while since we heard form the Fables fans and they were starting to get usurped by the Umbrella Academy fans, but now they have fully reasserted their position as the new Sandman fans.

Congratulations, everyone! :D

Is that something so horrible to be though? Militantly adamant about excellent and even groundbreaking comics? Hrms...

[paper]

I just... have no interest in picking apart your personal opinion of how you do things. That just seems rude, because you're entirely valid. But instead of being considered valid, I'm considered stabby.




Yes, I call it diffusing an argument. Nobody loses.

[valoharth]

Finished Story Book Love, the third trade of Fable. Isn't this where the story is supose to pick up? I mean it wasn't a bad story. I liked the Jack story at the start but the story arc in the middle was kind of more of the same from the first two trades plus it had more Goldielocks in it. She was probably the worst part of Animal Farm, just a character that I wanted to burn off the page.

[jakov42]

Finished Story Book Love, the third trade of Fable. Isn't this where the story is supose to pick up? I mean it wasn't a bad story. I liked the Jack story at the start but the story arc in the middle was kind of more of the same from the first two trades plus it had more Goldielocks in it. She was probably the worst part of Animal Farm, just a character that I wanted to burn off the page.

I still think the series does pick up with the third trade. For me it picks up with a deepening of the characters, plot, and relationships and some of the seeds that are set up the in first trade start to pay off.

As far as Goldilocks, I loved that character. I thought she threw a great manic chaos in to the mix. If you despise that character that much, then I could see where it would lessen your enjoyment of Fables as a whole.

[kahunablair]

I can see what you're saying. We're all pretty much stating that the third trade gets better because of what we know now. The third trade is the start of some of the great plot points that are carried out later.

It's a little Monday morning quarterbacking on our parts in saying, "Stick with it!" Sorry about that.

For what it's worth I don't think Goldielocks popped up ever again in Fables. Jack of Fables on the other hand.....

[jakov42]

It's a little Monday morning quarterbacking on our parts in saying, "Stick with it!" Sorry about that.

Excellent point. The more I hear people talking about their experiences, the more it seems like either you love it or hate it. Some people will drift away from it and come back for whatever reason, but readers should listen to their gut instinct with this one.

[jaflanagan]

I'm going to suggest something radical. If you've read the first 2-3 trades, and you're not so down....read them again.

A lot of times, you go in the first time with all these expectations, and it's hard to live up to them. You miss the little good bits.

Still....fucking Homelands...that's good comics.

[jon_samuelson]

In concurence with Josh, might I draw a parallel... The first time I read the first trade of Preacher I absolutely HATED it. Last fall (after about 7 years) I decided I'd give it another chance, LOVED it, and ripped through all 9 trades. So yeah, if you've already got the first 2-3 trades, read 'em again, because as Josh consistently mentions, so much of the fun of Fables is in seeing little nuggets become important and eventually pay off.

[valoharth]

Yea, I will give them another read through and I will probably pick up the 4th trade. I feel invested enough in the characters to at least go on that far, I'm really digging Biggs B. Wolf.

[jon_samuelson]

Yeah, Bigby is a really great character. And if you're willing to give the 4th trade a shot, I think that's make or brake time. If you don't love March of the Wooden Soldiers then it's probable that Fables just really isn't going to do it for you.

P.S. If you DO love it, then just wait until you get to Homelands.

[cyberauron]

Heres what I understand that the more familiar the story, the stronger the Fable. Thats why Jack and Goldilocks are able to take so much damage and not die. Plus in JacjK of Fables the villian even said the only way they can die is if people forgot their stories.

My Question is if thats true why did Prince charming , baby bear and Spoiler spoiler died.

[gobo]

Jack is a bigger fable than spoilerspoiler especially, but I think it just means they won't stay dead unless people forget about them. Jack especially has multiple fables about him, people would have to forget them all.

[missconstrue]

Also because of his trilogy of movies, which he made for this exact purpose. (And heaping piles of money... let's not forget the money.)

Spoiler spoiler (and a single tear falls on the page here) is a much more likable character in this series, but he's a minor fable at most. A nursery rhyme.

And to bring up another question: what do you think of Joao Ruas' art and how do you feel about him taking over for James Jean?

I love, love, love Jean. When I open the boxes of comics tuesday night and there's a new Fables, I admit to a fair amount of fangirl rapturous sighing. Hopping over to Ruas' website though, I was pleased with his art. It is similar to Jean's--which is a double edged sword.

If it was incredibly different, it would scare the fragile, tremulous (militant) fans. And, tongue out of cheek: people who weren't expecting the change might be a little pissed to see something so different on the covers. But also it means that Ruas will be subject to never-ending comparisons of his art with someone who has won (5?) Eisners. Which is a little unfair to someone who is just getting into the comics' industry for the first time.

[cyberauron]

Jack is a bigger fable than spoilerspoiler especially, but I think it just means they won't stay dead unless people forget about them. Jack especially has multiple fables about him, people would have to forget them all.

so is that a plot device to bring back charming and spoilerspoiler. especially with that new villian coming in

[voodoomama]

Heres what I understand that the more familiar the story, the stronger the Fable. Thats why Jack and Goldilocks are able to take so much damage and not die. Plus in JacjK of Fables the villian even said the only way they can die is if people forgot their stories.

My Question is if thats true why did Prince charming , baby bear and Spoiler spoiler died.

This was more so my question with Prince Charming. I mean dude got around. Disney films alone should make him invincible. I was really suprised he diied.

[zombox]

I really think their mortality is directly related to how powerful their myth is. Snow White is a powerful myth, well known by most of the Western world - especially thanks to Disney. Who doesn't know Little pig, little pig or let me in? Or the story of Little Red Riding Hood? Jack is pretty powerful, he has several well known myths. Prince Charming is the embodiment of every handsome, noble hero... so, yea. The character that recently died... eh... he doesn't have that cache. May be gone for real.

[voodoomama]

A little of topic but kindda not. If anyone is interested Drawing magazine has a nice article on James Jean, and his artistic process. They refer to Fables as a magazine but.....

[cammyknoxville]

A guy brought in the James Jean HC book with all the FABLES covers, and upon looking through the pages, I just had to own a copy for myself.

I've always loved his covers and art, but after seeing that HC in person, I was sold.