Special Edition Podcast: 'Iron Man'

[conorkilpatrick]

TRT: 00:25:59

Click here for download info (http://www.ifanboy.com/podcasts/audio/Special_Edition_Podcast__Iron_Man) on the Special Edition: Iron Man Podcast. The show can also be found on your podcast feed behind this week's Pick of the Week Podcast.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1150/1490385100_423dc71413.jpg

This is your place to discuss Iron Man! From here on out, if you haven't seen the movie and don't want to be spoiled, do not read any further!

[jmstump]

I get to see this tomorrow at 8pm. I'm as giddy as school girl! :D

[poltah]

Just saw it, and I'm going to go in guns blazin with spoiler bullets, so watch out.

SPOILERS!!!


I LOVED the first two parts of this movie. They did almost everything right. Downey Jr. is Tony Stark, and I don't want to see anybody else portray that character ever. He's a genius. Terrence Howard was great as well, but Palthrow was bad, especially in the end.

The whole origin thing went extremely well, and they made the armor seem "believable" which was cool. And you can't help smiling when he's flying through the air.

The only week point in the beginning of the movie is the fact that he manages to build what he does without the terrorists noticing, and that he can actually build that energy thing in a fucking cave. But hey, I'll let that slide.

Now, the ending is bad. The end fight is horrible. I don't see why it always has to be a problem in these superhero movies. They always seem to want the hero to "come up with some clever way" of beating the bad guy. And it just never works. I was so disappointed with the way Tony beat Iron Monger. It was lame, it wasn't entertaining to watch. Their fight was dumb, and it just didn't live up to everything else in this movie. And every time the movie cut to Pepper whining I was like "god, shoot her". Lame lame lame.

This is probably one of the best comic book movies out there. It's not as good as Batman Begins, but it's better than all the other in my opinion.

The John Rhodes scene where he looks at the War Machine armor and goes "next time baby!" was probably my favorite thing in that movie. This movie was so aware of it's comic book fans, without being like "well, this one's for the comic readers" and that was awesome. It's probably the one movie that really made me feel good about the term: "Comic book movie". Because this was definitely a comic book movie. It was a comic book trying to be a movie. It wasn't a movie that suffered because it had to live up to a comic. It was a movie that was aware that there was a comic book out there, and had a little fun with that fact.

I didn't thought this would be a good movie, but right I just want to watch the sequel. And since that's not out yet, I guess I just have to watch Iron Man again this weekend.

[henrik]

I found the movie extremely entertaining. Great CGI, great acting. A bit lackluster at the end but still one of the best comicbook movies out there.
Casting was spot on. Stan Lee as Hugh Hefner!

[dustcoveredsoul]

I loved it. The whole thing through was great for me. People in the early screening actually applauded at several points and it was appropriate every time. I agree that the fight at the end could have been better but I don't know how. Maybe if it was just a balls out fight where he beat the tar out of him would have worked better, but no matter what, someone's going to be disappointed. I loved the last thing. Downey Jr. was fucking brilliant. He lived and breathed Tony Stark. The second they announced that casting I knew it would be genius.

I hope it does well because I'd love to see a sequel.

[moron9000]

It has dethroned Spider-Man 2 for best super hero movie for me. Wow, i loved it. And the best part of it, was after the credits, make sure you stay through!

[hometeam790]

For me the final fight didn't detract from how much I loved the movie. It was really great. Lately with comic book movies the more I think about them, the more I didn't like them as much as when I first walked out of the theaters (X3 and Spiderman 3) But with this one, I really did enjoy it. Loved the Stan Lee cameo and the tease with War-Machine.

Been a long time since I had a good time at the theater watching a movie, but I had a great time at the theater watching this movie. I'd go see it twice.

[hometeam790]

It has dethroned Spider-Man 2 for best super hero movie for me. Wow, i loved it. And the best part of it, was after the credits, make sure you stay through!

DAMMIT!!!!

But now I have a reason to go see it again :)

[cormano]

It has dethroned Spider-Man 2 for best super hero movie for me.

That sets the bar extremely high. Spider-Man 2 is in my top five favorite movies of all time.

[dustcoveredsoul]

I have to agree. I LOVED Spider-Man 2 but I'm pretty sure I liked Iron Man more. I can't remember the last time I was that exited watching a movie.

[henrik]

If only Transformers would have been this entertaining...

[flakbait]

Saw it last night, too, at the 8 o'clock showing. I went in totally psyched and with crazy high expectations, and was not disappointed. I loved every minute. SHIELD being in there surprised me, and I didn't actually pick up on the crazy name until the second or third time they said it, hehe.

I could have done with a different Pepper Potts. But other than that, the movie was spot on. Comic book movies seem to have trouble with the female parts, which makes me worry if someone ever gets around to making a Wonder Woman or Ms Marvel movie.

[hudsonphillips]

The after the credits scene is very cool. I love this idea of Marvel owning all their movies now. So many great possibilities.

And did anyone notice the middle eastern bad guy's giant ring? Maybe he'll be back for a sequel as the Mandarin? Which, I thought, even going into this that the Mandarin was going to be the bad guy... that's what they originally announced.

Solid movie though. A lot of fun.

[horatio616]

Saw it last night, too, at the 8 o'clock showing. I went in totally psyched and with crazy high expectations, and was not disappointed. I loved every minute. SHIELD being in there surprised me, and I didn't actually pick up on the crazy name until the second or third time they said it, hehe.

I could have done with a different Pepper Potts. But other than that, the movie was spot on. Comic book movies seem to have trouble with the female parts, which makes me worry if someone ever gets around to making a Wonder Woman or Ms Marvel movie.

I don't recall any particularly bad casting choices for females in comic book movies. People had a problem with Katie Holmes but I didn't have a problem with her performance.

I'll admit to not seeing the movie yet, but I don't see why comic book fans would complain about Oscar-winning performers wanting to star in these popcorn movies.

[jmstump]

The after the credits scene is very cool. I love this idea of Marvel owning all their movies now. So many great possibilities.


Yes I remember telling my date that we had to stay till the bitter end because I knew there was no way that they would cut the big man out of this movie.

I really hope everyone is staying after all the credits to see that scene. It's sad that probably the best scene in the entire movie is after all the credits. Although I was a fan of the little homage to the "bodyguard" but I knew he had to spill the beans.

[dustcoveredsoul]

I'm glad I'm going to see it again tonight. (my wife is thrilled) Because I didn't stay until after the credits. I went thought the whole movie thinking they replaced Samuel Jackson with Tarence Howard because I never heard them say his name, now that I actually know the "next time baby" scene makes a lot more sense. Sorry, I'm a little slow on the uptake.

I agree that I didn't have a problem with Paltrow. She didn't blow me away like Downey Jr. but I thought she was competent. She was a little annoying at the end when she was whining "but you'll die!" but that was the writing, not her acting.

[horatio616]

Tomatometer 94%:

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/iron_man/

[horatio616]

I love this bit from a review from Time's Richard Corliss:

Readers of movie reviews often think that critics hate the big Hollywood stuff and cherish only the little films about Romanian abortions or Iranian kids. But some of us, this one anyway, knows that there's an American style — best displayed in the big, smart, kid-friendly epic — that few other cinemas even aspire to, and none can touch. When it works, as it does here, it rekindles even a cynic's movie love. So cheers to Downey, Favreau and the Iron Man production company. They don't call it Marvel for nothing.

[davegraham]

My only complaint was the lack of a human Jarvis, but that in no way spoiled what was otherwise a fantastic movie. Certainly on the level of Spider-man, X-Men, and Batman Begins. And the post credits scene... I wasn't expecting it... and it was very cool.

[iSteve]

The New York Times had a good review of the new Iron Man movie today entitled, "Heavy Suit, Light Touches (http://movies.nytimes.com/2008/05/02/movies/02iron.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss)."

[hudsonphillips]

I really liked Gwyneth Paltrow... I thought she was great... Probably one of the better comic book movie female lead actresses (I also liked Katie Holmes in BB) Her and RDJr had some great moments together. I loved the non-romance romance.

[flakbait]

I didn't hate Paltrow, I was just generally meh on her. She was fine. She certainly didn't ruin the movie for me.

I'd say Halle Barry was miscast as Storm (Halle just isn't that good at action flicks, no matter how much she wants to be).

And while I have no problems with Kirsten Dunst, Mary Jane just wasn't written very well, for a variety of reasons I don't really want to go into.

Why make Rogue into Kitty for the X-films? Why was Mystique running around nude?

I don't know. It just seems like there are some oddities in how the ladies are presented that the male leads don't have to deal with.

[dustcoveredsoul]

I agree. I didn't have feelings toward Paltrow either way other than her being a tad annoying during the fight. I definitely preferred her over Katie Holms or Kirsten Dunst, though.

[tad]

The first Marvel Comic I bought, right off the spinner rack:

http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/tales-of-suspense/47-1.jpg

Tales of Suspense/Iron Man was also my first complete set of comics.
Loved the movie. Even though I had figured it out, hearing the agent say "SHIELD" kinda choked me up. I was completely surprised by the last line before the credits and enjoyed the scene afterwards.

The last scene does not mean that the next movie will be a team flick, just that they're planning it.

New Hulk trailer too - still not feeling it.
New Indy trailer - Yes! Finally showed Karen Allen too.

[mikegraham6]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQEzrkCeZkU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xyDyDfOlHc&feature=related

[niceguyeddie]

My only complaint was the lack of a human Jarvis, but that in no way spoiled what was otherwise a fantastic movie. Certainly on the level of Spider-man, X-Men, and Batman Begins. And the post credits scene... I wasn't expecting it... and it was very cool.

i'm surprised no one's mentioned it until now.
it was weird but anyone that doesn't even know the character from the comics won't give it a second thought at all.

And did anyone notice the middle eastern bad guy's giant ring? Maybe he'll be back for a sequel as the Mandarin? Which, I thought, even going into this that the Mandarin was going to be the bad guy... that's what they originally announced.

also, the terrorist group was called the ten rings.

[niceguyeddie]

if you didn't stay for after the credits...
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=FKu2IsBL8Xc

[cammyknoxville]

Like I told my friends months ago, Iron Man is Marvel's Batman Begins. I had such a fun time watching the movie, and became more and more delighted with every easter egg. I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who thought the one guy is going to turn into the Mandarin (the ring is what first made me suspicious, followed by 'The Ten Rings').

As for after the credits? I was the only one in my theater left, and was shouting "Yes! Yesss!" at the top of my lungs. Hot damn!

[johnvferrigno]

Stan Lee as Hugh Hefner!

Actually, he credits say "Stan lee as himself." Stark just mistook him for Hef, not realizing that stan lee is just as big of a pimp!

[superfriend82]

Just got back form seeing the movie. I love it! I give it A +++ plus! :)

I thought RDjr and Gwyneth Paltrow were both great! Did anyone else think that GP was very sexy as PP?

I think The Mandarin is going to be in the next one? I wonder if they will ever have War Machine? I think mayde not.

[mrugly]

Oh man, I just got back from seeing this with my buddies. This movie was SUPERB! Robert Downey NAILED Iron Man. Paltrow, Howard, and Bridges were all phenomenal as well and the overall tone was perfect. I can not say enough good things about this film. I am going to see it again, which will be a first since I never see a film twice in theatres. Man, that was worth the price of admission.

[mojofrojo]

I just want to say, Jeff Brigges is the only man I have ever seen that can eat scenery without actually overacting. Every time he was on I was just drawn to looking at him. Makes me want to rock the bald-head beard combo.

[johnvferrigno]

2010 can't come fast enough. Who else thinks Iron man 2 will be Iron Man and War Machine against The Mandarin?

[gobo]

Oh man it was so awesome!

I hope you all stayed after the credits, it had an AWESOME extra scene

[henrik]

So what do you guys want next? Sequel or Avengers movie?

[gobo]

Sequel, it'll be a while before the avengers movie can work, gotta wait for Thor and stuff to come out

[iSteve]

IRON MAN BOX-OFFICE NIPPING AT SPIDEY's HEELS

The first early estimates for Iron Man Friday North America box office are starting to come in, and according to the tracking website BoxOfficeGuru.com, the film took in an estimated $33 million dollars in its opening frame ($38.5m when you add in the Thursday evening tally) seemingly putting it on pace to meet or even exceed some of more optimistic full weekend estimates.

The opening gives Iron Man the second largest first-day debut for a non-sequel in box office history, trailing only the $$39.4m the original Spider-Man took in, although that of course was in 2002 ticket price dollars.

Iron Man could score $85-90M over the full weekend and $90-95M when adding in Thursday's grosses, according to BoxOfficeGuru.com.

The rub for superhero and genre movies is always its legs, however, or how is performs in the coming weeks after the core fan-base sees it opening weekend. With very favorable critical response and strong fan word-of-mouth, Iron Man may be poised to perform relatively strongly for a comic book based film, although it will be facing stiff competition with Speed Racer and the latest Indiana Jones installment both bowing this month as well.

Look updates with more details on Iron Man's performance later today and throughout the weekend.

[iSteve]

Another review of Iron Man by the Washington Post, entitled, "Nerve of Steel (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/30/AR2008043003729.html?nav=hcmodule)."

[jon_samuelson]

I think Gwyneth Paltrow was great as Pepper Potts. She was charming, and cute, and she had some backbone to her. I'll admit she turned a little "damsel in distress" at the end, but that was more the writing's fault than Paltrow's.

[dave-accampo]

Haven't sifted through the whole thread, but I just got back from this, and I was very pleased. Great cast, fun story -- really good all around. It was pretty much everything I hoped it would be.

That final post-end-credits scene was fantastic. Really shows you what Marvel can do with their studio if they so choose.

[gungadin]

For me? In a word? Awesome and/or quality. I freakin loved it.... And then I sat through the credits (completely by accident, although others told me to sit through the credits anyways I didn't do anything until the picture came back) and was like OH DAMN!....

And then my head exploded...

[six-gun]

Best. Superhero. Movie Ever.

The final scene had me picturing the Captain America unfreezing from The Ultimates played out on the big screen with the same creative team as Iron Man.

I want that, oh how I want that so.

[jon_samuelson]

I'm still gonna have to go with Batman Begins and Spider-man 2 as my favorite superhero movies, but this scores right up there.

[dustcoveredsoul]

I think for me, it definitely is my top superhero movie. It may be just the excitement of it. I'll have to see how I feel after I've seen it a few more times and some time passes.

Tarence Howard pointed out on TV Guide channel that every single major character in the film has either been nominated for an Oscar or has won and Oscar so it's not your typical comic book movie. Every single aspect of this film seems to be air tight. Writing, acting, effects... everything.

[charlie-blix]

Loved the movie. I think I could see this as my number one comic book movie... maybe. It's hard because I really loved Batman Begins... hmm. I think they might be even.

[hudsonphillips]

I thought the movie was great... but best super-hero movie ever? I think the hype is getting to everyone just a little bit. I think I'll refrain from making such calls until the dust settles a little bit...

I'm curious as to what this will do for comics in general. Having made an estimated $85 million dollars over this weekend, let's play it easy and average $10 each... that's 8.5 million viewers in the U.S. alone over one weekend. That's a lot of new potential comic readers. So, why does a comic movie bring in millions and a comic book bring in a hundred thousand - at BEST? Why is this not translating?

Aren't comics as cool and fun and exciting as these movies? Someone's not doing their job. Maybe it's the publishers, maybe it's the retailers, maybe it's the creators, or maybe it's the consumers just not being interested in the medium, but I think most consumers would be surprised if they ever got a chance to read a good comic.

I place the blame squarely on Marvel Comics. There is no reason they shouldn't be able to translate the success of the movie into a success in the comics... but how can they with 40 years of Iron Man history and continuity and a version of Iron Man that doesn't much resemble the movie version?

[conorkilpatrick]

I'm curious as to what this will do for comics in general. Having made an estimated $85 million dollars over this weekend, let's play it easy and average $10 each... that's 8.5 million viewers in the U.S. alone over one weekend. That's a lot of new potential comic readers. So, why does a comic movie bring in millions and a comic book bring in a hundred thousand - at BEST? Why is this not translating?

People don't read books anymore, let alone comic books.

[cormano]

Iron Man has (as I have already said on Twitter) replace Superman: The Movie on my top three favorite super hero movies of all time. It may actually edge out Batman begins as #2. Spider-Man 2 is still #1, but this movie kicked ass in every way possible.

More opinions when I'm less drunk/tired.

[hudsonphillips]

People don't read books anymore, let alone comic books.

Maybe you're right... I'd like to be a little more hopeful than that, however.

Even if comics just got 1% of that audience to make the jump to comics, we'd be doing alright. Even if that audience is kids... maybe especially if that audience is kids.

I also like to think that comics are a medium "between" books and movies. It's reading, but it's visual. I would think this would interest people even if they may not read too many books. Again, especially kids.

And there is a large "intellectual" audience out there who do read books, and do see movies, and would read comics if they knew the quality of the books available to them, who for a number of reasons haven't given comics a chance.

All that to say, there are crazy amounts of new audiences who have not yet been exposed to comics in a positive way... Even if reading is on a decline as a whole.

[smeeeeee]

Hey, when is ifanboy gonna post up a special edition podcast on the Iron man Review???

Im totally looking forward to this.

Oh and i've read from wiki that Tom Morello had a brief cameo in the film as a guard. Did anyone catch this?? i didnt

[cormano]

I didn't catch it, but I know Morello played a terrorist.

[tad]

I think Marvel has done a much better job this time around in tying comics to the movies. There are new Iron Man collections and FCBD had two comics that featured Iron Man and the Hulk. In fact, the Marvel Adventures give--away was Iron Man, Hulk and Spider-man.

So if newbies wander into a comic shop or the graphic novel section of a major bookstore, they should find a decent intro to comics.

[labor_days]

Well, I saw it. T'was a lot of fun.

No complaints other than the odd Pepper/Tony romance.

Jeff Bridges was really good.

[superfriend82]

Well, I saw it. T'was a lot of fun.

No complaints other than the odd Pepper/Tony romance.

Jeff Bridges was really good.

I did't think it was odd at all. I found it fun and injoyble. But maybe thats because i dom't know Iron Man that much and i thought Gyneth Paltrow was sort of sexy.

[labor_days]

I didn't think Paltrow and Downey had that much chemistry together. They seemed awkward toward each other in the romantic scenes.


Paltrow's heels toward the end of the movie? Fuck yes. Those were gorgeous shoes. Made the movie for me.

[horatio616]

I thought the movie was great... but best super-hero movie ever? I think the hype is getting to everyone just a little bit. I think I'll refrain from making such calls until the dust settles a little bit...

I'm curious as to what this will do for comics in general. Having made an estimated $85 million dollars over this weekend, let's play it easy and average $10 each... that's 8.5 million viewers in the U.S. alone over one weekend. That's a lot of new potential comic readers. So, why does a comic movie bring in millions and a comic book bring in a hundred thousand - at BEST? Why is this not translating?

Aren't comics as cool and fun and exciting as these movies? Someone's not doing their job. Maybe it's the publishers, maybe it's the retailers, maybe it's the creators, or maybe it's the consumers just not being interested in the medium, but I think most consumers would be surprised if they ever got a chance to read a good comic.

I place the blame squarely on Marvel Comics. There is no reason they shouldn't be able to translate the success of the movie into a success in the comics... but how can they with 40 years of Iron Man history and continuity and a version of Iron Man that doesn't much resemble the movie version?


Marvel and DC aren't interested in innovation. They keep cannibalizing the same concepts over and over. Just look at the last issues of New Avengers and Mighty Avengers. Does it look like they're even making an attempt to make their books accessible? It's a shame the best Iron Man story ever told is not a comic book.

I'm amazed at the performance of IM at the box office. So much for the GTA 4 theory.

$100+ million debut!
http://movies.yahoo.com/mv/news/ap/20080504/120993390000.html

Ha! They're running a marathon of the 90s cartoon on Disney right now. "Armor Wars".

Also, most people won't read a comic. They're just not interested.

I thought the second Hulk trailer looked really good. I'm feeling more confident about it now.

[cormano]

They were awkward, I thought it was appropriate for the situation, though. I was surprised by how much I enjoyed Paltrow in this movie.

[paper]

Just got back. Looooooved it. Can't wait for a sequel. Best Marvel movie so far. The real chemistry is Stark and Rhodes. Terrence Howard was great. I am so excited to see these two fighting side by side in the next one.

Time will tell how I position this in my hierarchy of Superhero flicks, but I will say this:

Robert Downey Jr. has probably delivered my favorite superhero performance. He is Tony Stark.

[ryan79]

Incredible movie, start to finish, and I can't really comment on anything that hasn't already been said except one thing. You can have your Iron Monger and your Mandarin. Yeah, War Machine was teased and even Nick Fury showed up. But when WHIPLASH gets a mention in the movie, now you've got my attention.
http://www.geocities.com/ironman_villains/blacklash/mtu072.jpg

Oh, and what really made me smile during the movie didn't happen on the screen. A few rows in front of me, there was a couple of little kids, maybe seven or eight years old. They were RIVETED to this movie and even gave each other high-fives when Iron Man saved the villagers from the terrorists. That gave me hope that this movie created a couple more comic book fans.

[cormano]

Goddamn… I missed so many references in this, definitely need to see it again ASAP.

[jasontodd]

Just got back from the movie. I thought it was pretty good but far from being the best comic movie ever. RDJ definately owned the role of Stark though.

Just a thought... did Warren Ellis make any money off of this movie?

The whole origin scene was ripped off of Extremis.

[cormano]

I don't know if I'd call it "ripped off" in this type of scenario :p, but Ellis did mention being interviewed for the dvd on his website, which I can't imagine he would have participated in without being compensated. In related news… I can't wait to see that interview.

[dave-accampo]

Just got back from the movie. I thought it was pretty good but far from being the best comic movie ever. RDJ definately owned the role of Stark though.

Just a thought... did Warren Ellis make any money off of this movie?

The whole origin scene was ripped off of Extremis.

Well, all Ellis did was re-imagine Stark's origin for a modern audience. Many of the basic beats were similar to the original origin. And it was work-for-hire, which he well knows. So, I don't expect he's going to see any money, and I suspect he's fine with it.

[dave-accampo]

No complaints other than the odd Pepper/Tony romance.

Jeff Bridges was really good.

I think the romance was supposed to be odd. I thought it worked that way.

Agreed on Bridges.

[dave-accampo]

Marvel and DC aren't interested in innovation. They keep cannibalizing the same concepts over and over. Just look at the last issues of New Avengers and Mighty Avengers. Does it look like they're even making an attempt to make their books accessible? It's a shame the best Iron Man story ever told is not a comic book.

That's an awful broad stroke to apply to two comic books. Marvel and DC have done lots of innovation. And generally speaking, those books don't sell. What sells? Big events. Recreations of classic concepts.

Also: accessibility and innovation are two different things, and I don't think they're mutually exclusive.

[dave-accampo]

So, why does a comic movie bring in millions and a comic book bring in a hundred thousand - at BEST? Why is this not translating?

Conor said it simply, but I'll expand. It's not just that people aren't reading books (Harry Potter suggests otherwise), but it's also the the culture and distribution of comic books.

As Tad noted, Marvel HAS done a better job of having lots of Iron Man comics out there. The title was recently relaunched, so you've got Ellis' Extremis storyline that's a good jumping on point for modern readers.

However, to pick up a SERIES (and thus create the sales increase you're looking for), people would generally have to find and go into a comic book store. And then...if you're lucky you have a place like Earth-2 in Sherman Oaks or Meltdown in LA where everything's cleanly laid out and people are helpful. If not, you get the Simpsons' Comic Book Guy. And trust me, they're still out there! And they don't just have to go there once, no...average joe is then expected to go back to Comic Book Guy's store every month? This just doesn't feel realistic for me for someone who thought Iron Man (the movie) rocked.

I WOULD be curious to see if there's a significant upswing in Iron Man trade sales at Borders and Barnes & Noble and on Amazon. That might be where the sales translate. But I just don't see it bringing a lot of new people INSTANTLY into comic shops all over America.

[conorkilpatrick]

Conor said it simply, but I'll expand. It's not just that people aren't reading books (Harry Potter suggests otherwise), but it's also the the culture and distribution of comic books.

Funny, I had originally wrote "people don't read books that aren't Harry Potter" but changed it to keep it simple.

[dave-accampo]

Funny, I had originally wrote "people don't read books that aren't Harry Potter" but changed it to keep it simple.

Hehehe... well, I'm glad you didn't because it allowed me to expand on my point. ;)

[mikegraham6]

The after the credits scene is very cool. I love this idea of Marvel owning all their movies now. So many great possibilities.

And did anyone notice the middle eastern bad guy's giant ring? Maybe he'll be back for a sequel as the Mandarin? Which, I thought, even going into this that the Mandarin was going to be the bad guy... that's what they originally announced.

Solid movie though. A lot of fun.
did you notice that the terrorists group was called "The Ten Rings"? the mandarin is coming....

[paper]

They supposedly expand on the whole Mandarin/Ten Rings thing in the novelization of the film.

[jimski]

Ten Rings!!

Duh!!

All weekend, I've been hearing/reading people saying, "Ooh, Mandarin. They even worked in the Mandarin. Can you believe the Mandarin?" and I've been smiling and nodding and replaying every frame of the movie in my mind, going, "What the hell are they talking about?" And of course I completely failed to make the connection; they only said it half a dozen times, often with a giant ten-ringed actual red flag in the background behind them.

I graduated summa cum laude, you know.

[mikegraham6]

i loved this movie, it's probably my favorite comic book movie so far (not counting Batman Begins, that movie is untouchable). the end scene made the film for me as well. My friends were complaining that nothing was coming, but after staring at names pass by for 5 minutes, that 30 second scene was worth it. Best sequel tease ever? quite possibly. Sam Jackson thank you for taking on the Nick Fury role!

[iSteve]

I loved Iron Man - second only to Batman Begins. The only minor complaint I have is that they made Jarvis into a computer. He should be a proper man servant.

[horatio616]

That's an awful broad stroke to apply to two comic books. Marvel and DC have done lots of innovation. And generally speaking, those books don't sell. What sells? Big events. Recreations of classic concepts.

Also: accessibility and innovation are two different things, and I don't think they're mutually exclusive.

Really? Name a successful character or brand either have launched in the last twenty years. I'm talking about from their superhero universes.

This summer DC is ripping off itself for the 3rd time (Crisis) and Marvel is ripping off Battlestar Galactica.

[paper]

Why are you bringing that in here?

Iron. Man.

I swear to god, people. Just enjoy the movie for what it is and stop bickering about what it means for comics. It's literally the same thing we say about getting friends to read comics. If they really want to, they just need a spark like this and they'll find a way. If they don't, nothing you do is going to persuade them.

If they want to invest in the culture, they'll do the research. I did. I'm back in comics because of the movies. Whenever a new Spider-Man or X-Men came out I'd hop on Amazon and Wikipedia and snoop around. Just because people aren't reading comics now doesn't mean they're idiots incapable of a scavenger hunt. Comics are a niche industry because you can't buy them everywhere. If someone is going to really get into it, they'll do it regardless. There's no such thing as a casual (weekly) comic book reader. Casual graphic novel readers, sure. And accessible graphic novels exist for those converts. But story quality and accessibility have nothing to do with snaring Joe Q. Public and reeling him in to the dark and frightening Comic Crypt to buy singles.

That has nothing to do with the topic at hand. You know what has even less to do with it? The level of narrative innovation at Marvel and DC. Where the hell does that come from? "Ripping off itself" Genius. :rolleyes:

[jimski]

I'm trying to remember: to what extent did X-Men bring me back into comics? I thought it was the combo of Alias and JMS on Spider-Man that brought me back, but checking wikipedia now it looks like those things didn't happen until a year or two later. I remember that after I saw X-Men, I went and got my X-Men long box out of storage the very next day.

Hmm. I may be a case study.

Now the question is, will this movie draw me into reading Iron Man? I pre-ordered Favreau's miniseries based solely on the trailer... but at the same time, I could stand to see a lot less of the MU Tony Stark these days, frankly.

[horatio616]

This has been the track the discussion has been on since, oh, post #46. If you want I can go back to the start and talk about how good the movie was and how Gwenyth Paltrow is cute and how Robert Downey Jr. is amazing. Be sure to let me know the next time I talk about something that you don't want me to so I won't do it again.

[paper]

Yeah, I kind of wish there was an Ultimate Iron-Man that wasn't...Ultimate Iron-Man.

Is Extremis good?

[horatio616]

I'm trying to remember: to what extent did X-Men bring me back into comics? I thought it was the combo of Alias and JMS on Spider-Man that brought me back, but checking wikipedia now it looks like those things didn't happen until a year or two later. I remember that after I saw X-Men, I went and got my X-Men long box out of storage the very next day.

Hmm. I may be a case study.

Now the question is, will this movie draw me into reading Iron Man? I pre-ordered Favreau's miniseries based solely on the trailer... but at the same time, I could stand to see a lot less of the MU Tony Stark these days, frankly.

If you're interested in Iron Man and haven't read Extremis, then you might want to check it out. It's the best example of a good modern Iron Man story. I haven't read Orson Scott Card's mini but Josh likes it.

I'd say the movie Stark is closer to the Ultimates version of him than the regular Tony, but I admit to not reading a whole lot of recent Iron Man books.

[poltah]

Right now the plan is to have War Machine and the Mandarin show up in either the sequel, or the movie after that.

[horatio616]

Yeah, I kind of wish there was an Ultimate Iron-Man that wasn't...Ultimate Iron-Man.

Is Extremis good?

Its pretty brainy; there's lots of sci-fi and political elements, and, of course with any Ellis book, an element of government shenanigans. It's straight-up Iron Man. There's no guest-stars or anything related to the MU. Completely stands alone.

And plus there's nanites.

[horatio616]

Right now the plan is to have War Machine and the Mandarin show up in either the sequel, or the movie after that.

Given the tone of this movie, I don't see them calling it "War Machine."

[paper]

Controversial, I know, but I wouldn't mind them calling him Captain America. I'm not even joking. Fans of the source material should rejoice that I am not in charge of this adaptation. There's surely a way to make Steve Rogers work in a movie, but I wouldn't be unhappy if they wanted to use Rhodes instead. I'm serious.

[horatio616]

Controversial, I know, but I wouldn't mind them calling him Captain America. I'm not even joking. Fans of the source material should rejoice that I am not in charge of this adaptation. There's surely a way to make Steve Rogers work in a movie, but I wouldn't be unhappy if they wanted to use Rhodes instead. I'm serious.

What about U.S.Agent? Perfectly genius name not being used for anything right now.

I'm holding out hope that the Captain America movie will begin with the opening scene in WWII that was in Ultimates #1 and also the graveyard scene with Nick Fury where he's talking about how everything he knows and loves is dead.

[xebix]

What ever happened to War Machine in the comics? I have not seen him in anything in a while.

[paper]

He's in Avengers: The Initiative, right? (Stopped reading after #3)

[ryan79]

He's in Avengers: The Initiative, right? (Stopped reading after #3)

Correct, sir. He's one of the top dogs running the program.

[dave-accampo]

Really? Name a successful character or brand either have launched in the last twenty years. I'm talking about from their superhero universes.

This summer DC is ripping off itself for the 3rd time (Crisis) and Marvel is ripping off Battlestar Galactica.

Re-read my last post. That's EXACTLY my point. Innovation doesn't sell. It's not that Marvel/DC aren't interested in innovation. They try little innovations all the time. But they're a business. Big events and reinventions of classic concepts are what sell. WE have trained them, and not the other way around.

[xebix]

He's in Avengers: The Initiative, right? (Stopped reading after #3)

Then he might as well not exist.

[horatio616]

Re-read my last post. That's EXACTLY my point. Innovation doesn't sell. It's not that Marvel/DC aren't interested in innovation. They try little innovations all the time. But they're a business. Big events and reinventions of classic concepts are what sell. WE have trained them, and not the other way around.

Yeah, you're right. Jemas tried some new stuff but it was a mixed bag. In the end, it's all about selling books.

[horatio616]

He's in Avengers: The Initiative, right? (Stopped reading after #3)

Did that guy who got killed in the first issue come back to life? I stopped after the first one.

[jaflanagan]

Ten Rings!!

Duh!!

All weekend, I've been hearing/reading people saying, "Ooh, Mandarin. They even worked in the Mandarin. Can you believe the Mandarin?" and I've been smiling and nodding and replaying every frame of the movie in my mind, going, "What the hell are they talking about?" And of course I completely failed to make the connection; they only said it half a dozen times, often with a giant ten-ringed actual red flag in the background behind them.

I graduated summa cum laude, you know.

In light of your confession, I'll claim the exact same story. You heard me do it on the podcast actually. "Oh yeah, Mandarin..."

Also graduated summa cum laude.

[xyzzy]

Saw it last night and really enjoyed it.

To address one complaint I seem to be seeing, I'm glad that Jarvis was a computer program. In the comics, you can juggle these giant casts and give them all their focus over the course of several years. But in a ~2 hour movie, you need focus. Having both Pepper Potts and Jarvis assisting Tony would have just been redundant. Why use two characters when one will do?

Ultimately, I think that the best choice is always the one that serves the film, not the source material. If you can do both, that's ideal, obviously. I think that the Jarvis computer assistant was a good nod to the comic while still making the film the priority.

[kahunablair]

I didn't think Paltrow and Downey had that much chemistry together. They seemed awkward toward each other in the romantic scenes.
I got the feeling that the awkwardness was intentional. I really loved that it wasn't a "They embrace, and live happily ever after ending."

One of the best romantic couples in Comic Book movies.

Paltrow's heels toward the end of the movie? Fuck yes. Those were gorgeous shoes. Made the movie for me.
... I love you, Labes, but sometimes you scare me.

[paper]

I liked Pepper a lot up until the "get the files" scene. The character sort of devolves. I thought the damsel in distress thing was disappointing after her earlier scenes.

Otherwise, good stuff.

[kahunablair]

Saw it last night and really enjoyed it.

To address one complaint I seem to be seeing, I'm glad that Jarvis was a computer program. In the comics, you can juggle these giant casts and give them all their focus over the course of several years. But in a ~2 hour movie, you need focus. Having both Pepper Potts and Jarvis assisting Tony would have just been redundant. Why use two characters when one will do?

Ultimately, I think that the best choice is always the one that serves the film, not the source material. If you can do both, that's ideal, obviously. I think that the Jarvis computer assistant was a good nod to the comic while still making the film the priority.

100% agreement.

[dave-accampo]

I liked Pepper a lot up until the "get the files" scene. The character sort of devolves. I thought the damsel in distress thing was disappointing after her earlier scenes.

Otherwise, good stuff.

You know, I felt a twinge of the same thing when Jeff Bridges reveals himself as the "villain." It's probably more noticeable with Pepper because we've seen the reduction of the "damsel in distress" in modern movies. But in the end, this is still an "action" film in terms of plot structure. So there needs to be a villain, and there needs to be a loved one in danger...

[ryan79]

Did that guy who got killed in the first issue come back to life? I stopped after the first one.

Sort of. He was cloned four times, one of which was sent back to his parents to live a normal life. The other three were given Iron-Spider suits and were Baron Blitzkrieg's personal bodyguards. The actual body of MVP came back to life, called himself KIA, and went on a rampage through Camp Hammond, killing and maiming as he went. He was finally taken down by, believe it or not, the power of love or some shit like that.

*sigh*

It's a good book. Really.

[horatio616]

Sort of. He was cloned four times, one of which was sent back to his parents to live a normal life. The other three were given Iron-Spider suits and were Baron Blitzkrieg's personal bodyguards. The actual body of MVP came back to life, called himself KIA, and went on a rampage through Camp Hammond, killing and maiming as he went. He was finally taken down by, believe it or not, the power of love or some shit like that.

*sigh*

It's a good book. Really.

Hmm, that actually sounds interesting. I also quit The Order too. People like me are the reason why it was cancelled. :(

I was going to ask you next time I saw you if you saw the movie. Have you read Extremis? I've got the trade if you want to borrow it.

[cammyknoxville]

Just posting to say awesome song for the intro and outro to this episode.

The Cardigans - Iron Man is now apart of my music library.

[kahunablair]

I liked Pepper a lot up until the "get the files" scene. The character sort of devolves. I thought the damsel in distress thing was disappointing after her earlier scenes.

Otherwise, good stuff.

I see what you're saying. It did start to fall into the "typical" plot points a few times.

I just don't think it went all the way with them. She started out almost getting grabbed at his office, but she gets out. Then she almost gets caught by Iron Baddie. In the end she ends up being the one that kills the villian. Show me a superhero movie that let's the "Love Interest" actually win the day.

[paper]

Sure, but it was Tony who told her what to do. I'd be more impressed if she'd figured out a way to do it without Tony's instructions.

[kahunablair]

Quit crushing my happiness, man!


Edit: ;)

[xyzzy]

Pepper is Tony's assistant. In that final scene, she could have fled to safety, quite easily after Tony showed up. But she stuck around, placed herself in danger in order to assist her boss in taking down Stane.

In the office, she saved herself. Tony saved her from Stane's initial attack, but that's about it.

[paper]

I'm just playing Devil's advocate. This, to me, is Marvel's Batman Begins. Both have flaws. Both are terrific movies.

The scene in the office is easily my least favorite scene in the movie. We've seen that scene a million times. I really don't see why Obie would let her go like that. I just think they could have come up with something more interesting.

[xyzzy]

I'm just playing Devil's advocate. This, to me, is Marvel's Batman Begins. Both have flaws. Both are terrific movies.

The scene in the office is easily my least favorite scene in the movie. We've seen that scene a million times. I really don't see why Obie would let her go like that. I just think they could have come up with something more interesting.

I would agree that the scene is a bit tired. On the other hand, it didn't make me dislike Pepper.

Stane let her go because he didn't know what she knew. If she was there for relatively innocent reasons, then trying to restrain her could tip his hand. There were a million reasons why Tony's assistant might be in Tony's office. Most of them would have nothign to do with Stane's machinations.

[henrik]

To address one complaint I seem to be seeing, I'm glad that Jarvis was a computer program. In the comics, you can juggle these giant casts and give them all their focus over the course of several years. But in a ~2 hour movie, you need focus. Having both Pepper Potts and Jarvis assisting Tony would have just been redundant. Why use two characters when one will do?

Ultimately, I think that the best choice is always the one that serves the film, not the source material. If you can do both, that's ideal, obviously. I think that the Jarvis computer assistant was a good nod to the comic while still making the film the priority.

Also having a billionaire superhero with gadgets and an english butler might be too much "Batman-esque" for the casual movie going audience?

[jimski]

The more I brainstorm Iron Man 2 plots, the more I wish they wouldn't make one. Is that awful?

[horatio616]

Also having a billionaire superhero with gadgets and an english butler might be too much "Batman-esque" for the casual movie going audience?

They're rerunning the 90s cartoon on the Disney channel. In it he had a holographic assistant, which I think was taken from Force Works. Had a similar type personality to the one in the movie.

[ruo21]

Was I the only one that chuckled when I saw Samuel L. as Nick Fury. God hes in everything.

[horatio616]

Was I the only one that chuckled when I saw Samuel L. as Nick Fury. God hes in everything.

And he was in full-on ham mode, too. The only thing he's not in is the two Ultimates animated adaptations, oddly enough.

[esophagus]

Was going to see Iron Man on Friday, then I got called into work. Pushed it back to Saturday but they asked me to work Saturday, as well as Sunday. Decided I'd get up early and do the Sunday matinee thing. They asked me to come into work two hours early. Let's HOPE that nothing comes up tonight. I'm getting flustered.

[gobo]

I'm all for a sequel with the Mandarin and War Machine

[xyzzy]

I'm all for a sequel with the Mandarin and War Machine

War Machine, sure. They've got Rhodes established and spare Iron-Man armor laying around. It wouldn't take much to put those two things together.

The Mandarin, though. I'm not a fan of that guy. I mean, if they find out the leader of 10 Rings is like codenamed the Mandarin or something, that's fine. But I don't want to see some dude in a Fu Manchu with magic rings (I know they aren't magic, but its essentially the same).

[flakbait]

War Machine, sure. They've got Rhodes established and spare Iron-Man armor laying around. It wouldn't take much to put those two things together.

The Mandarin, though. I'm not a fan of that guy. I mean, if they find out the leader of 10 Rings is like codenamed the Mandarin or something, that's fine. But I don't want to see some dude in a Fu Manchu with magic rings (I know they aren't magic, but its essentially the same).

I think the story arc that just concluded in Iron Man showed us that you can portray Mandarin in a modern, bad-ass way. It would totally work.

My big problem with the Pepper-Stane office scene was that I just didn't understand why, as soon as Stane saw what she'd done, he didn't pick up the phone and have security intercept her on the way out. She'd left only a few seconds before.

Then we could have had a cool fight between the SHIELD agent and security. I imagine him pulling out a ray gun to fight them off. :)

[paper]

Here's what I really love:

Clark Gregg, who played Phil, Agent of Shield in this movie also played an FBI special Agent on The West Wing. And I'm gonna pretend it's a crossover.

[dave-accampo]

My big problem with the Pepper-Stane office scene was that I just didn't understand why, as soon as Stane saw what she'd done, he didn't pick up the phone and have security intercept her on the way out. She'd left only a few seconds before.

Stane couldn't go after her publicly. But before he could get her alone, she took off with the SHIELD agent. Made perfect sense to me.

[flakbait]

Here's what I really love:

Clark Gregg, who played Phil, Agent of Shield in this movie also played an FBI special Agent on The West Wing. And I'm gonna pretend it's a crossover.

He was also in at least one episode of The Shield. :)

[conorkilpatrick]

Brian Michael Bendis revealed (http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/showthread.php?t=150166) that he wrote the dialogue for the Nick Fury scene.

[horatio616]

Here's what I really love:

Clark Gregg, who played Phil, Agent of Shield in this movie also played an FBI special Agent on The West Wing. And I'm gonna pretend it's a crossover.

The guy from New Adventures of Old Christine?

[paper]

Yes, he's also in that.

[horatio616]

Yes, he's also in that.

Thought he'd end up unemployed but it looks like ABC might pick it up if CBS drops it. I don't particularly care for the show, but, damn, Louis-Dreyfus is tr
ying really hard! I root for her.

[dave-accampo]

Brian Michael Bendis revealed (http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/showthread.php?t=150166) that he wrote the dialogue for the Nick Fury scene.

I didn't check this link, but I saw this on today's Lying in the Gutters. What's cool is that Marvel studios actually brought Bendis, Millar and a few others out to LA and treated them as an Iron Man "brain trust" for hammering out and shaping the script. They all seem to be thrilled that they were treated so well. Millar even mentions that he had a hand in convincing them to focus less on the Mandarin and more on Stane.

Interesting. This bodes very well for Marvel's movies....

[ryan79]

Hmm, that actually sounds interesting. I also quit The Order too. People like me are the reason why it was cancelled. :(

I was going to ask you next time I saw you if you saw the movie. Have you read Extremis? I've got the trade if you want to borrow it.


Yeah, Iron Man has been on my pull list since the new series started. I loved it, even though I'm not an Orson Scott Card fan. Thanks for the offer, though.

[tad]

The Mandarin, though. I'm not a fan of that guy. I mean, if they find out the leader of 10 Rings is like codenamed the Mandarin or something, that's fine. But I don't want to see some dude in a Fu Manchu with magic rings (I know they aren't magic, but its essentially the same).

The bad guy in the movie was already wearing a ring. He might be the Mandarin. Or there are ten leaders, each have a ring and someone goes rogue and kills the other nine to get all ten.

War Machine doesn't make sense to me in the sequel except in a "he comes to the rescue, gets screwed and Tony saves him mode." The comics were published for decades before they added a second "Iron Man". I think it would be confusing to the wider audience. Again, it's all in how much you play him.

[esophagus]

I planned on listening to the special edition and reading through this whole thread before I said anything (just got home) but I can't quite hold it in.

FANTASTIC. I would go as far as to say that this actually outranks Batman Begins as my favorite superhero movie (although I will say I expect The Dark Knight to outrank this). Fucking perfection.

I have never even read an Iron Man that feels as right as RDJ felt in this movie. Excellent. Excellent casting all around I would say. Bridges played a very good Stane, and while I don't think it was his acting chops that really made the man, it was his fantastic on-screen relationship with Stark. It just felt right. Terrence Howard also can't get any complaints from me. He was great, and I expect to see him get better in a sequel. Paltrow is probably one of my favorite on-screen superhero love interests (which is, albeit, a fairly niche category) of all time. Her and Stark had a very "this is so fucked up it just has to work" vibe about them. My only complaint with Paltrow was that just up to and during the fight scene (I would say starting with SHIELD 'unlocking' the door) her sadness seemed a little cheesey. Still, I can forgive that by remembering how stellar she was through the rest of the movie.

Jarvis? How god damn weird was that. I kind of saw it coming though, and I certainly didn't mind. Very hard to balance Paltrow, Howard, and a Jarvis. In Batman Begins the role of, well, sidekick was sucked up entirely by Michael Caine. Here I noticed they even had to hold back with Howard a little bit to make room for him and Paltrow. Jarvis would have been overload.

The writing was fan-frickin-tabulous. Stark's dialogue was spot on, as were the fun little ironies that are TOTALLY necessary to Iron Man's story. The bomb he uses to save hurts him. The heart he throws away saves him. I could go on. I'm really really happy with everything that happened.

Visual effects were just superb. Not much else to say on those grounds.

Before I get to what happened after the credits I should say that those were some of my favorite credits. But yeah. Sam Jackson. Nick Fury. SHIELD. Wasn't quite what I was expecting (Did anyone think this WASNT going to lead to him joining the Avengers?). Great nonetheless.

[apswesthome]

all i can say is...

Samuel Jackson as Agent Nick Fury of S.H.I.E.L.D.

[horatio616]

Jarvis? How god damn weird was that. I kind of saw it coming though, and I certainly didn't mind. Very hard to balance Paltrow, Howard, and a Jarvis. In Batman Begins the role of, well, sidekick was sucked up entirely by Michael Caine. Here I noticed they even had to hold back with Howard a little bit to make room for him and Paltrow. Jarvis would have been overload.


I think the writers wanted to emphasize that Stark literally had no one except Pepper. He even says as much in one scene, but I can't exactly remember how it's phrased.

[esophagus]

I think the writers wanted to emphasize that Stark literally had no one except Pepper. He even says as much in one scene, but I can't exactly remember how it's phrased."You're the only one I've got" or something along those lines, but yeah. Hard to make someone lonely when you have Pepper, Jarvis, and occasionally Rhodes.

[paper]

Have we talked about the Burger King press conference? God, I loved that.

[esophagus]

Have we talked about the Burger King press conference? God, I loved that.I loved all of Stark's press, and the way he absolutely commanded attention but damn did that Burger King conference ever steal the show. Loved that when Stark stood up everyone else stayed on the ground.

[horatio616]

Have we talked about the Burger King press conference? God, I loved that.

I had a BIG problem with that scene. Guy didn't even have a beverage. You ever try to choke one of those things down without a drink? Come on people!
;)

[esophagus]

I had a BIG problem with that scene. Guy didn't even have a beverage. You ever try to choke one of those things down without a drink? Come on people!
;)I'm guessing the drink went down in the car. :p

Stane: Did you get me one of those?
Stark: Well... I ran out. This is the last one.

[horatio616]

I'm guessing the drink went down in the car. :p

Stane: Did you get me one of those?
Stark: Well... I ran out. This is the last one.

Probably chased it with some scotchy-scotch-scotch. (I love scotch.)

The studio missed a great opportunity for some cross-marketing with Apple. Imagine what the arc reactor technology could do for the iPod. "iStun: the first multimedia player/self-defense device."

[flakbait]

I think the Jarvis thing didn't bother me mostly because we hardly ever see Jarvis in the solo IM book. He's always hanging out at Avengers Mansion anyway.

So it might be a bigger issue when/if they get around to the Avengers movie, but I imagine they'll just have him transferred from Tony's house to the mansion and give him a hard light holographic body or something like that.

[ruo21]

While watching Iron Man suit up all I could think about was this:

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/19759.html

[supermanfan]

Just finished listening, I liked Superman Returns! You guys are not alone!!

[mikegraham6]

Special Edition Podcast Question: Since it had it's own comic book, are we going to get an Indiana Jones special edition podcast? It's not like you guys aren't going to see this movie right? :)

[kahunablair]

I think they are. I believe they did mention something about it in passing during this show.

I may be wrong though, as I often am!

[esophagus]

I thought next one wasn't going to be until Hulk? I could have very easily made that up.

[themaestrox]

I saw Ironman and I thought it was pretty average. Not a great deal of depth to the characters. All characters were there to bolster up Stark and serve his story in one way or anotrher rather than be characters in their own right. The great revelation from Tony came in the first few minutes, so the character arc was over just after the film began.

and too much tiome focused on bloody suit design.

but Robert Downey Jr. was great.

The film didnt suck, it ws just average and not deserving of the high accolades it is recieving. IMO.

My general opinion...
I dont hold many Marvel films in very high regard, they all have such low expectaions of themselves in terms of characterisation and dialogue. But they all have some of the best marketing in the industry (the main thing opening weekend box office indicates).
Batman Begins has been the best superhero film we have seen thus far. TDK is looking like it willtop that too.

[horatio616]

I saw Ironman and I thought it was pretty average. Not a great deal of depth to the characters. All characters were there to bolster up Stark and serve his story in one way or anotrher rather than be characters in their own right. The great revelation from Tony came in the first few minutes, so the character arc was over just after the film began.

and too much tiome focused on bloody suit design.

but Robert Downey Jr. was great.

The film didnt suck, it ws just average and not deserving of the high accolades it is recieving. IMO.

My general opinion...
I dont hold many Marvel films in very high regard, they all have such low expectaions of themselves in terms of characterisation and dialogue. But they all have some of the best marketing in the industry (the main thing opening weekend box office indicates).
Batman Begins has been the best superhero film we have seen thus far. TDK is looking like it willtop that too.

Hmm... I don't see Batman Begins having any more "depth to the characters" than Iron Man or Spider-Man 2, but that's just me. Was the dialogue in Batman Begins any better than any other comic movie? The movie's strength is definitely not in the dialogue.

177 million in ten days! Speed Racer... ouch!

[themaestrox]

The dialogue? when copmpared to Spiderman 2, most definitely! Spiderman was cheesy and overall just crap.

The variety of characters and character depth seen in BB (Bruce, Rachel, Ra's) was far greater than in Ironman, IMO.
Ironman was popcorn summer fun. I dont think it was trying to be anything more, so in that it succeeded. Batman Begins is a step above the rest in the genre, and can be considered a quality film in its own right, without being qualified by being a "superhero film", which is what is used for films such as Ironman to lower the standard of comparison and ultimately make the film look better than what it is.

[paper]

Batman Begins is a terrific film, don't get me wrong. But it is not the Parousia. These films are tonally different. And as you conceded, Iron Man succeeded in what it was trying to do. So there is no reason to balk at the general enthusiasm for it. This is a smart action movie and it takes the opportunity to entertain and thrill a wide range of people. And for that, I will go to bat for it any day of the week.

[themaestrox]

i agree that it was a smart action movie, I just expect a little bit more from films in general and I dont like to lower my standards of expectation just because a film chooses to be less.

[paper]

I don't think it's a question of lowering standards. I think it's a question of changing expectations. I'd venture to say that they're of two different genres. I'm a writer. I've studied screenwriting for years. I did not feel as if I was lowering myself by going to this movie. I'm more offended when films take themselves too seriously. I have the same philosophy about people.

[racemccloud]

i agree that it was a smart action movie, I just expect a little bit more from films in general and I dont like to lower my standards of expectation just because a film chooses to be less.

There is one major hole in your argument. "Iron Man" the film, as it turns out, is the bomb. Yo.

(The fact that "Iron Man" is indeed the bomb would be the hole in your argument, which would seem to be that "Iron Man" is not at all the bomb. So you see why it being the bomb would be a whole in your argument for it not being the bomb, since it is.)

[racemccloud]

I think the Jarvis thing didn't bother me mostly because we hardly ever see Jarvis in the solo IM book. He's always hanging out at Avengers Mansion anyway.

So it might be a bigger issue when/if they get around to the Avengers movie, but I imagine they'll just have him transferred from Tony's house to the mansion and give him a hard light holographic body or something like that.

I don't know, man. If they make an "Avengers" movie, and we all go to see it, and we spend most of the movie wishing Jarvis was there, then that would mean that they probably really screwed up the "Avengers" movie.

[racemccloud]

Just finished listening, I liked Superman Returns! You guys are not alone!!

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm stunned that a guy with the tag "Supermanfan" liked "Superman Returns". Just stunned.

[esophagus]

At work I usually get stuck listening to Ryan Seacrest on the American Top 40. The other day he talked to Terrence Howard. It was quite obvious Seacrest had never seen the movie.

"So are you the guy in the suit?"
"Maybe bext time." (Bolded for WAR MACHINE)
"Oh okay."
"Yeah Robert Downey Jr. is the one playing Iron Man"
"Oh, so do you actually see him, or is he always wearing a mask?"
"No. He is mostly Tony Stark, the alias of Iron Man, so you get to see a lot of that."

[themaestrox]

here is one major hole in your argument. "Iron Man" the film, as it turns out, is the bomb. Yo.'

Damn! i was hoping no one would notice that. You are too quick for me!


The Dark Knight will show you all how a superhero film should be done!

[racemccloud]

At work I usually get stuck listening to Ryan Seacrest on the American Top 40. The other day he talked to Terrence Howard. It was quite obvious Seacrest had never seen the movie.

"So are you the guy in the suit?"
"Maybe bext time." (Bolded for WAR MACHINE)
"Oh okay."
"Yeah Robert Downey Jr. is the one playing Iron Man"
"Oh, so do you actually see him, or is he always wearing a mask?"
"No. He is mostly Tony Stark, the alias of Iron Man, so you get to see a lot of that."

How stupid do you have to be... ? That isn't just a lack of show prep. A chimp could do a better interview. All you need is a cast list from IMDB to know that Terrence Howard isn't Iron Man. And to ask, "Do we ever see his face?"... I can't even respond to something that dumb. I certainly don't dislike Ryan Seacrest; in fact, I think he's fine and even pleasant as the slightly vapid, pretty-boy, Dick-Clark-for-a-new-generation host to America. But assuming these quotes are accurate... he comes off sounding pretty ridiculous on this one.

[dave-accampo]

I don't think it's a question of lowering standards. I think it's a question of changing expectations. I'd venture to say that they're of two different genres. I'm a writer. I've studied screenwriting for years. I did not feel as if I was lowering myself by going to this movie. I'm more offended when films take themselves too seriously. I have the same philosophy about people.

I just want to ditto this.

I disagree with the assertion that comic book movies have "low expectations of themselves." First, the movies don't have expectations. We place expectations on them. And, I don't think it's true that studios see these films lightly anymore. You've got Sam Raimi, Christopher Nolan, Ang Lee, Tim Burton, Bryan Singer...these are all big name directors. These are not direct-to-video movies designed to reach the lowest common denominator and make a quick buck.

But: Iron Man is an action movie. I don't think one can compare it to, say, The Ice Storm or some other heavy drama. It's a heroic journey, and it needs to hit all those beats. Compare Iron Man to Batman Begins and The Matrix, all three being "super-hero origin" movies, and I think the character paths are fairly similar.

I'll grant you this: Batman Begins has a couple more internal character conflict beats than Iron Man because they got a little heady with Bruce Wayne's conflict from childhood scarring to adult action. tony Stark simply had more external conflicts. But overall, there's not much more depth of character.

I'd also argue that Iron Man spent about as much time as Batman Begins on the suit creation vs. the creation of the Batman.

Bruce's ninja training = Iron Man building original suit
Creation of Batman (including suits, masks, batmobile) = Iron Man building 2nd and 3rd suits.

It feels roughly the same to me.

Dark Knight may well be better than Iron Man. But I don't think any of us can say that from the trailer. There's nothing in the trailer that immediately tells me this has more depth than any other movie. I think this is an assumption based on what Nolan did with the first film.

[racemccloud]

'

Damn! i was hoping no one would notice that. You are too quick for me!


The Dark Knight will show you all how a superhero film should be done!

I agree, the Dark Knight looks to be stellar. But I would argue that a well done "Batman" movie and a well done "Iron Man" movie are two completely different movies. And "Iron Man" was done almost exactly as I would hope "Iron Man" would be.

(Actually, I didn't much ever care how "Iron Man" would be. "Iron Man" was never on MY list of "must-see, hope-they-make-it" movies. And as I sat pre-show in the theatre, I looked at all the people and thought to myself, 'A week ago, over half of these people had no idea who Iron Man was.')

[racemccloud]

I agree, the Dark Knight looks to be stellar. But I would argue that a well done "Batman" movie and a well done "Iron Man" movie are two completely different movies.

So I don't directly contradict Dave in the post above me, let me clarify... yes, these superhero origin stories are all basically similar, and he makes good points about the matching beats in "Iron Man" and "Batman Begins". However, in terms of setting a tone and atmosphere, and how the story is told, and the attitudes and motivation of the main character... THAT is where the major differences lie. Think of human beings. We all have the same basic skeletal structure. It's how the rest of our body sits on that skeleton that makes us different and unique. Bruce Wayne and Tony Stark, aside from both being billionaires, are very different characters, and Batman and Iron Man are very different heroes, so it stands to reason that at the end of the day, once the meat gets hung on the skeleton of story structure, they will have very different movies. And I think they do. I also think that both movies are excellent.

[dave-accampo]

Oh yeah, you're not really contradicting. I was just pointing to the similarities of story structure. Sort of that Josph Campbell, "Hero of a Thousand Faces" thing. We expect certain beats in our stories. That's NOT to say that Bruce Wayne and Tony Stark are interchangeable. But they both have epiphanies, they both "become" something more than they were. These are things we generally expect from "heroic fiction" as opposed to dramatic fiction that doesn't always involve a hero's journey."

There are definitive links, to me, between Tony Stark, Bruce Wayne, Luke Skywalker, Spider-man, Neo, Harry Potter, etc.

But each of these characters and stories can be COMPLETELY different in tone and atmosphere. They need not be identical to be good -- but they all do have certain similarities (some harder to find than others).

[esophagus]

How stupid do you have to be... ? That isn't just a lack of show prep. A chimp could do a better interview. All you need is a cast list from IMDB to know that Terrence Howard isn't Iron Man. And to ask, "Do we ever see his face?"... I can't even respond to something that dumb. I certainly don't dislike Ryan Seacrest; in fact, I think he's fine and even pleasant as the slightly vapid, pretty-boy, Dick-Clark-for-a-new-generation host to America. But assuming these quotes are accurate... he comes off sounding pretty ridiculous on this one.
I think "Are you the guy in the suit?" was either a bad joke, or something Howard had set up before hand (based on his response). The rest of it came off as complete stupidity though, and quickly devolved into "lets talk about your musical debut, and that party we met at" as Seacrest always does.

[conorkilpatrick]

Was Captain America's shield in Iron Man? (http://www.geektyrant.com/2008/05/is-that-captain-americas-shield-in-the-background-of-iron-man-movie/)

[six-gun]

Was Captain America's shield in Iron Man? (http://www.geektyrant.com/2008/05/is-that-captain-americas-shield-in-the-background-of-iron-man-movie/)

Whoa!

[xyzzy]

I don't know, man. If they make an "Avengers" movie, and we all go to see it, and we spend most of the movie wishing Jarvis was there, then that would mean that they probably really screwed up the "Avengers" movie.

If the biggest problem with the Avengers movie is that a tiny fraction of the audience wishes Jarvis were in it, they will have made a smashing success.

[mikegraham6]

Was Captain America's shield in Iron Man? (http://www.geektyrant.com/2008/05/is-that-captain-americas-shield-in-the-background-of-iron-man-movie/)
i don't buy it, the pic is kinda weak

[xyzzy]

i don't buy it, the pic is kinda weak


I'm 90% certain that is a Captain America shield prop. White star, blue field, red and white concentric stripes. I'm also fairly certain that it's just somethign that they thought would be a funny prop, without any real significance.

[racemccloud]

If the biggest problem with the Avengers movie is that a tiny fraction of the audience wishes Jarvis were in it, they will have made a smashing success.

Nah, I'm just saying that if I'm even thinking about Jarvis while watching "The Avenger", than the movie must be pretty bad.

[horatio616]

The dialogue? when copmpared to Spiderman 2, most definitely! Spiderman was cheesy and overall just crap.


Really? I thought everything Ra's said sounded like it came off of a fortune cookie.

The weakness of most of the Batmans film compared to most other superhero films is that in his history he's lacked a Lois, an MJ, hell, even a Pepper. A transcendent Batman film would have him make some kind of deeper connection to a character other than Alfred. It can be done because Mask of the Phantasm proved it.

[paper]

It still annoys me that they insist on giving him a love interest. It's a movie industry requirement that I just don't agree with. I love a good film romance, but I don't think Batman needs that.

[horatio616]

It still annoys me that they insist on giving him a love interest. It's a movie industry requirement that I just don't agree with. I love a good film romance, but I don't think Batman needs that.

I wouldn't say a romance, per se, just something a little more than grim-and-gritty. They could do something really good with Robin. There could even be a good relationship there with Rachel that need not be romantic. There was an element of something cool with Jim Gordon approaching what Miller did in Dark Knight Returns and Year One, but it didn't quite get there.

[paper]

Well, maybe something will come out of the Harvey Dent thing.

[dave-accampo]

Well, maybe something will come out of the Harvey Dent thing.

Oh, but that'll be so on-again, off-again.

[paper]

I want a divorce.

[horatio616]

Well, maybe something will come out of the Harvey Dent thing.

Hopefully we'll get more Gordon/Batman.

[horatio616]

Oh, but that'll be so on-again, off-again.

It could change at the flip of a coin!

[dave-accampo]

I want a divorce. Only if we split things 50/50.

Oh!

[mikegraham6]

question for the iFanboys: are you guys planning on doing a special edition podcast for Indiana Jones. You know you're going to be seeing it anyway ;)
Plus weren't there more than a few Indy comic books?

[cam-]

Just to throw in some cents...

The best thing that happened when I saw Iron Man was, right after the Sam Jackson part someone said...

"Why is Mace Windu dressed like a pirate?"

Now that folks is comedy.

[racemccloud]

Just to throw in some cents...

The best thing that happened when I saw Iron Man was, right after the Sam Jackson part someone said...

"Why is Mace Windu dressed like a pirate?"

Now that folks is comedy.

It would have been great if he had said, "Why is the engineer from Jurassic Park dressed like a pirate?" As if that's the only other movie he'd ever noticed Sam Jackson in.

[macdad34]

the mail carrier JUST delivered my copy of iron man (along with forgetting sarah marshall)! i'm actually wondering how much trouble i would get in if i just blew off the next 2 hours of work and watched it. why can't it be 5:00?!? 8-)

[jimski]

I would love it if I got home today and Iron Man was available for HD pay per view, but I know I am living in a magical candyland of imagination.

[esophagus]

Someone posted this on the TRS boards, thought I'd share. Jeff Bridges posted a photo book (http://www.jeffbridges.com/ironmanbook_cover.html) of the making of Iron Man on his website. A lot of really awesome photos in there.

[crippler]

So, I watched Iron Man this weekend and for the first time noticed the Roxxon sign in the background during the final confrontation. Awesome. Not sure if it's already beend discussed to death, but that's a great little fiddly detail to add into the background.