Pick of the Week Podcast Episode #131 - Glamourpuss #1

[conorkilpatrick]

It's one of those shows this week as the guys gather to discuss and bicker a little over this week's books.

We discuss Ron's Pick of the Week for May 2, 2008:

http://www.ifanboy.com/comics/comics/glamourpuss/1/cover-thumb.jpg
Glamourpuss #1
by Dave Sim
Running Time: 00:57:00

Click here for download info and show notes! (http://www.ifanboy.com/content/audio/05_04_08_-_Episode__131_-_Glamourpuss__1)

Click here to read the Pick of the Week review! (http://www.ifanboy.com/content/potw/04_30_2008_-_Glamourpuss__1)

Click here to see the iFanboy Mini review! (http://www.ifanboy.com/podcasts/video/ifanboy_mini_-_episode_35_-_glamourpuss__1)

[labor_days]

Great, great music pick this week.

[labor_days]

Ok, so can someone point out one continuity problem in DCU Zero?

Because we were not supposed to know it was Barry Allen for sure at the end. It was a tease.

[owlboy]

Just to clarify Josh, I was not wearing Adidas pants when I wrote that.

[labor_days]

Also, on Wonder Woman & Libra.

Wonder Woman is an Amazonian warrior. They have a Grecian heritage. The Gods think WW and the Amazons have failed them. They are sending male soldiers to earth to do the job. Evil men are putting together some bad magic to take Wonder Woman down.

NOBODY knows anything concrete on Libra yet. Only that he is rallying villains to the cause of some evil god. Guess we will have to read Final Crisis to find out more, huh?

All of this is explained on the page.

What happened to reading skills, bros?

[jimski]

I have never been gladder to be wrong about something.

I mean, that guy pretending to be me was wrong. I don't know 1990s x-continuity obsessively; I like the sports-ball. That's it.

[conorkilpatrick]

Also, on Wonder Woman & Libra.

Wonder Woman is an Amazonian warrior. They have a Grecian heritage. The Gods think WW and the Amazons have failed them. They are sending male soldiers to earth to do the job. Evil men are putting together some bad magic to take Wonder Woman down.

NOBODY knows anything concrete on Libra yet. Only that he is rallying villains to the cause of some evil god. Guess we will have to read Final Crisis to find out more, huh?

All of this is explained on the page.

What happened to reading skills, bros?

Seriously. I am close to having an aneurism over this.

[labor_days]

I think people thought DCU Zero was going to tell a straight up story in the traditional sense. Perhaps even more so if they read that spoiler before the issue.

[conorkilpatrick]

I think people thought DCU Zero was going to tell a straight up story in the traditional sense. Perhaps even more so if they read that spoiler before the issue.

I don't think DC made the intent of the book clear enough. And combine that with most people assuming that a DC book is going to be full of impenetrable continuity, so they see what's not there, and you get this situation.

[six-gun]

It's like all of comics has dec9ded that they're just going to bash DC

[scrumfritter]

Regarding Teen Titans Year One... did you not notice the storyline about the rogue mentors was resolved last issue, in issue 3? I thought it was weird you seemed to forget about it... maybe with the long delay it just slipped your minds.

Also, I agree 100% about DCU 0. It was a tease, and it totally got me excited about Final Crisis. The Barry Allen hint was so subtle, it blew my mind when I got to that last page. It's hard to get why it wasn't the pick of the week! :o

[conorkilpatrick]

Regarding Teen Titans Year One... did you not notice the storyline about the rogue mentors was resolved last issue, in issue 3? I thought it was weird you seemed to forget about it... maybe with the long delay it just slipped your minds.

Nope, I don't remember it at all. She must not have resolved the point hard enough.

[labor_days]

The Dick Grayson in TTY1 is one of the best Robins I ever read. He acts like a kid, yet there is that cool confidence when the pressure is one that comes through really well. That one scene with the Ant guy tauing him and Dick just tosses out that one liner, 'I was stuck in traffic"; while looking totally badass was so effin' sweet.

Also, Conor. Don't you remember the Titans taking on one another's mentors? That's when they started calling themselves the Teen Titans.

Speedy took out Aquaman, Robin took out Wonder Woman, Donna took out Flash. Batman was possessed by that alien and he fought it through sheer willpower. Then he got pissed at Robin for not figuring it out sooner. :D

http://i28.tinypic.com/1zdm72q.jpg

[conorkilpatrick]

Also, Conor. Don't you remember the Titans taking on one another's mentors? That's when they started calling themselves the Teen Titans.

Speedy took out Aquaman, Robin took out Wonder Woman, Donna took out Flash. Batman was possessed by that alien and he fought it through sheer willpower. Then he got pissed at Robin for not figuring it out sooner. :D

Yeah, I have no memory of that whatsoever. Mea culpa next week on the show.

[six-gun]

Ugh. The last thing I'm going to say about DCU #0:

IT'S A TEASER, IF YOU COMPLETELY UNDERSTOOD WHAT WAS GOING ON THEN IT'S FAILED COMPLETELY.

It's supposed to whet you appetite for the upcoming year, not provide a full meal.

[cormano]

I just started listening, and I have to totally agree with Ron on DCU #0… as someone who doesn't know a lot, but definitely more than the average guy who might pick this up based on mainstream coverage… and I had no idea what the hell was going on in this. I picked this up because it was $.50 and to see if I should start reading something… and no. I will continue only reading Vertigo stuff from DC.

[gineration]

I'm just getting back into the DCU, and I thought DCU Zero was great. I'm so anxious for the upcoming event. Admittedly, I didn't know Barry Allen had returned until reading it online.

[grayson]

I totally expected someone to say "This is SPARTA!!!!!!!!" during DCU 0.

**

Edit - *COMICS TORRENTS DELETED*

Don't post comic book torrents, please. -Conor

**

My bad.

[jimski]

"Everybody knows who Barry Allen is" except, apparently, me.

[grayson]

Hey, Conor, you don't remember Teen Titans Year One #3 because it came out during your vacation when Tom Katers replaced you.

[conorkilpatrick]

Hey, Conor, you don't remember Teen Titans Year One #3 because it came out during your vacation when Tom Katers replaced you.

Well, I did buy comics from that week. I was on vacation, not dead. :)

[valoharth]

Well, I did buy comics from that week. I was on vacation, not dead. :)

I don't know about that, I'm still not convinced your the original Conor.:rolleyes:

[horatio616]

Ok, so can someone point out one continuity problem in DCU Zero?

Because we were not supposed to know it was Barry Allen for sure at the end. It was a tease.

Wasn't the issue that Ron was having that DCU 0 received mainstream press and that new readers that the press brought in wouldn't have an idea what was going on? That press apparently didn't reach me so I never had it in my head that it was supposed to be anything more than continuity porn. It felt like a movie trailer and that's how I took it. It did the job that I thought it was supposed to.

[jimski]

It was funny, but then I just had to know. Here's what I've found:

The Comics Code Authority is a set of guidelines decided on by the Comics Magazine Association of America (CMAA), which I gather is made up of the publishers themselves self-regulating to keep the Man off their backs. It started as the Association of Comics Magazine Publishers. Wikipedia: "Founding members included publishers Leverett Gleason of Lev Gleason Publications, Bill Gaines of EC Comics, Harold Moore (publisher of Famous Funnies) and Rae Herman of Orbit Publications. Henry Schultz served as executive director."

The code was apparently last updated in 1989: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8580/cca3.html (Coincidentally, that geocities page was also last updated in 1989.)

Another key passage from Wikipedia:

In 2001, Marvel Comics, the world's largest comics publisher, withdrew from the CCA in favor of its own ratings system. As of 2007, DC Comics and Archie Comics are the only major publishers still submitting their books for CCA approval, and in the case of DC, only books from its Johnny DC and DC Universe superhero lines, with DC Universe titles sometimes published without Code approval.

[horatio616]

Jimski, your voicemail had me rolling. Oh, I mean that crank call that was clearly not you...

[horatio616]

I remember when I was a kid I hated Wendy and Marvin, Dynomutt, the Wonder Twins and Gleek, Orko, HERBIE, and Snarf. I think Tad's onto something.

[grayson]

I don't know about that, I'm still not convinced your the original Conor.:rolleyes:

well, duh. He's a skrull. and his skrull name is Hunter.

Also, @conor, you probably have a better memory when you talk about it.

[jaflanagan]

From the CCA:

Character portrayals will be caregully [SIC] crafted and show sensitivity to national, ethnic, religious, sexual, political and socioeconomic orientations.

If it is dramatically appropriate for one character to demean another because of his or her sex, ethnicity, religion, sexual preference, political orientation, socioeconomic disadvantages should never assign ultimate responsibility for these condictions to the character themselves. Heroes should be role models and should reflect the prevailing social attitudes.

That's not subjective at all....

[gungadin]

From the CCA:

Character portrayals will be caregully [SIC] crafted and show sensitivity to national, ethnic, religious, sexual, political and socioeconomic orientations.

If it is dramatically appropriate for one character to demean another because of his or her sex, ethnicity, religion, sexual preference, political orientation, socioeconomic disadvantages should never assign ultimate responsibility for these condictions to the character themselves. Heroes should be role models and should reflect the prevailing social attitudes.

That's not subjective at all....

Ah moral laws... How you do so much to "promote healthy lifestyles"...

[horatio616]

Ah moral laws... How you do so much to "promote healthy lifestyles"...

Is this why we're not seeing a lot of Batwoman right now?

[six-gun]

So I looked up Dave Sim's misogyny. Wow

[dave-accampo]

Ugh. The last thing I'm going to say about DCU #0:

IT'S A TEASER, IF YOU COMPLETELY UNDERSTOOD WHAT WAS GOING ON THEN IT'S FAILED COMPLETELY.

It's supposed to whet you appetite for the upcoming year, not provide a full meal.

There's a difference between having questions about what happens NEXT and having questions about what you're reading.

Just because people didn't quite get it, doesn't mean that they didn't understand that it was a teaser. It's not an either/or.

If you can't find your "footing" in what you're reading, then the writers have failed to engage you. It doesn't make it a "teaser", it just makes it unsuccessful.

Now, with that being said, I don't think DCU #0 was terrible. Even if you don't know who Barry Allen is, you still get the picturing that SOMEONE is coming back. The Wonder Woman pages were also fairly clear. The woman failed, so now the men are getting a chance. And the Batman tease was similar. I think the GL tease didn't work as well if you are unaware of recent events. The Spectre tease seemed a bit too abstract to make anyone want to pick up the book.

Does this work if you've got NO familiarity with DC? Could this teaser work for a complete newbie? Hmmm. Some of it. It might whet a couple appetites. I suspect it would also seem uninteresting to a number of new readers. But DCU #0 is MOST effective for those already playing in the sandbox. And that's what DC and Marvel are doing a lot these days -- playing to existing market, trying to stir them into a frenzy and then hoping it expands outward.

With that in mind, I think DCU #0 did its job.

[horatio616]

So I looked up Dave Sim's misogyny. Wow

Have you seen his online comic project, Siu Ta, So Far?

http://www.urge2film.com/index.php?go=12

It's a biography of a Canadian film actress. I haven't read it yet, but looking into it.

[superfriend82]

well, duh. He's a skrull. and his skrull name is Hunter.

Also, @conor, you probably have a better memory when you talk about it.

I am with you Grayson. I think that Conor is a skrull too. Because went missing druing wonder con.

[jaflanagan]

I love that we have a continuity.

[dave-accampo]

I love that we have a continuity.

Be careful. That will inevitably result in a Crisis of some sort...

[gungadin]

Be careful. That will inevitably result in a Crisis of some sort...

Oh damn... My mind just started racing when you said that...

[horatio616]

I love that we have a continuity.

Mephisto's here and he's telling me I can either stop talking with Eso or save Fred's life. I haven't decided yet.

[kahunablair]

Mephisto's here and he's telling me I can either stop talking with Eso or save Fred's life. I haven't decided yet.

I highly recommend just shooting them both. No tough "choices" need to be made.

[zombox]

What I can't believe is that you guys didn't even mention Age of Thunder. As Fraction lovers I know you bought it. Failing that, the fact that it was one of the highest rated books in the user ratings should have spurred some interest.

Weirdos.

[conorkilpatrick]

What I can't believe is that you guys didn't even mention Age of Thunder. As Fraction lovers I know you bought it. Failing that, the fact that it was one of the highest rated books in the user ratings should have spurred some interest.

Weirdos.

Fraction lovers? Josh and I both actively dislike his writing. I don't believe any of us bought it.

[six-gun]

Fraction lovers? Josh and I both actively dislike his writing.

Yeah!

[conorkilpatrick]

Yeah!

Well, it's not a rallying cry or anything. I suspect that Invincible Iron Man will at least get some looks.

[paper]

I was really excited about the new Iron Man book. Might still be good, but I wish it was somebody else.

Conor, you sold two books today. Arkham Asylum for one, and I'll be picking up Enter the Madarin tomorrow.

I hope to be terrified and delighted respectively.

[conorkilpatrick]

Conor, you sold two books today. Arkham Asylum for one, and I'll be picking up Enter the Madarin tomorrow.

I hope to be terrified and delighted respectively.

Enter the Mandarin is 4/5 awesome, 1/5 okay. Just keep that in mind. I'm totally going to get the trade at some point.

[paper]

I remember you being disappointed by the ending, so I'm going in with low expectations for that part. The overall art and tone look great though.

[six-gun]

I was really excited about the new Iron Man book. Might still be good, but I wish it was somebody else.

Conor, you sold two books today. Arkham Asylum for one, and I'll be picking up Enter the Madarin tomorrow.

I hope to be terrified and delighted respectively.

Make sure you get the version of Arkham Asylum with the full script in the back. I don't think you get the full experience without it.

[zombox]

Fraction lovers? Josh and I both actively dislike his writing. I don't believe any of us bought it.

Really? How odd. I could have sworn you guys had a generally positive opinion. There's the Alzheimer's kicking up again.

Anyway, you guys should read this one. Nice art, good retelling of Thor's Marvel origin... or so it seems to me. Very strong work, in my opinion.

[paper]

Make sure you get the version of Arkham Asylum with the full script in the back. I don't think you get the full experience without it.

Yup. 15th anniversary edition.

[nuclearman]

great episode guys ... but for all three of you to forget that the plot of the teen titans year one was resolved in issue #3 ... there is something strange going on. Mindswipe Methinks.

[dave-accampo]

Yup. 15th anniversary edition.

Oh, you will surely enjoy that.

Good stuff.

[jaflanagan]

great episode guys ... but for all three of you to forget that the plot of the teen titans year one was resolved in issue #3 ... there is something strange going on. Mindswipe Methinks.

I never read it in the first place.

[kahunablair]

I never read it in the first place.

Maybe you did... but you forgot about even buying it!!!

[flakbait]

I thought DC 0 was okay. I hadn't heard anything in advance. I was a little surprised at the ending, but since we've seen Barry as recently as a few issues back in Booster Gold and back during Infinite Crisis, it didn't blow me away.

[xyzzy]

Okay, I just read DC Universe 0 and it's not a very good read. It's basically a giant ad that I paid for.

Compare this to Countdown (the 80 page lead in to Infinite Crisis, not the 52 issue weekly series). It served essentially the same purpose, leading in to the 4 pre-IC minis by introducing all of their stories in one book.

The difference is that Countdown told a story. A pretty damn awesome story, actually. DCU 0 has no story. It has a bunch of unconnected ads, strung together by a narrator that does nothing other than describe each ad.

Countdown was awesome. DCU 0 was weak.

[charlie-blix]

It has a bunch of unconnected ads, strung together by a narrator that does nothing other than describe each ad.

You didn't even like it a little when you found out who that narrator was?

[xyzzy]

You didn't even like it a little when you found out who that narrator was?


I thought it was a neat reveal, but it didn't redeem the weak narrative.

[kahunablair]

DCU 0 shouldn't have cost anything. Even though there was a small narrative in between the ads, it wasn't enough.

They should have just held off a few days and given it out on Free Comic Book Day.

[charlie-blix]

I thought it was a neat reveal, but it didn't redeem the weak narrative.

Okay than I agree with you. I'm kind of just getting a feel for the whole DCU so the comic did an okay job of letting me know where everything was at but I was still lost.

I kind of need a "Previously On" type of comic to get me oriented enough for the coming Final Crisis series.

[gungadin]

Also, it cost fifty cents and the art kicked ass... Fifty cents.

's all I'm saying...

[xyzzy]

Also, it cost fifty cents and the art kicked ass... Fifty cents.

's all I'm saying...

I'm really not an art guy. I mean, I appreciate good art, obviously. But in a comic, the art is there to serve the story. If there's no story, then having neat looking images is kind of pointless to me.

[kahunablair]

Also, it cost fifty cents and the art kicked ass... Fifty cents.
's all I'm saying...
The art was good. And I can't wait to read the actual books they pulled those scenes from.

[katang]

mi·sog·y·nist (mĭ-sŏj'ə-nĭst) Pronunciation Key
n. One who hates women.

If Dave Sim hated women, would he self publish a comic book full of nothing but drawings of women. Most people don't tend to draw whole comic books about the things they hate. So, on some level, he must not completely hate women. He must at least like them from an aesthetic point of view. If you read his viewpoints, a more accurate statement would be that he hates feminism. It seems that one should be able to hate feminism without hating women. I suppose that could be a point of contention, but I tend to view it as a possiblity.

[xyzzy]

mi·sog·y·nist (mĭ-sŏj'ə-nĭst) Pronunciation Key
n. One who hates women.

If Dave Sim hated women, would he self publish a comic book full of nothing but drawings of women. Most people don't tend to draw whole comic books about the things they hate. So, on some level, he must not completely hate women. He must at least like them from an aesthetic point of view. If you read his viewpoints, a more accurate statement would be that he hates feminism. It seems that one should be able to hate feminism without hating women. I suppose that could be a point of contention, but I tend to view it as a possiblity.

I'm not sure you understand what misogyny is. It doesn't mean that hate is the absolute only emotion felt towards women. I mean, straight guys will still be sexually attracted to women. Being a misogyist doesn't make them gay.

Regardless, why don't we just say that his views towards women are reprehensible and kind of disgusting. The "he doesn't hate women, just feminsism" is apologist bullcrap. And saying that men are creative lights and women are emotional voids doesn't really have much to do with feminism.

[katang]

I'm not sure you understand what misogyny is. It doesn't mean that hate is the absolute only emotion felt towards women. I mean, straight guys will still be sexually attracted to women. Being a misogyist doesn't make them gay.

Regardless, why don't we just say that his views towards women are reprehensible and kind of disgusting. The "he doesn't hate women, just feminsism" is apologist bullcrap. And saying that men are creative lights and women are emotional voids doesn't really have much to do with feminism.

I guess that's my point. I don't think its fair to refer to Dave Sim as a misogynist since I don't think he fits the definition. Also, I'm not going to agree that "we" find his views towards women as "reprehensible and kind of disgusting". However, you are more than welcome to say that if that is how you feel. The truth is, I don't know what is happening in Dave Sim's head. One one hand, he says that men are creative lights and women are emotional voids. On the other hand, he praises "Finder" by Carla Speed McNeil after making that statement and gets me to check out her work. Also, I still contend that you can disagree with some aspects of the feminist agenda and not be a misogynist. I'm sure a feminist may not agree with that and label you a misogynist if you disagree with any part of their agenda. However, just because someone puts a label on you, does not make it so. Unfortunately, I believe this is what has happened to Dave Sim. He's been labeled a misogynist unfairly. Granted, he put into words some very controversial views and brought it on himself, but that doesn't make him a misogynist.

[itsbecca]

Also, I still contend that you can disagree with some aspects of the feminist agenda and not be a misogynist.

Really? I disagree. Let's consult those definitions you like...

fem·i·nism [fem-uh-niz-uhm]
n. the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men.

What kind of rational, fair being would disagree with a simple view of equal rights?

[katang]

Really? I disagree. Let's consult those definitions you like...

fem·i·nism [fem-uh-niz-uhm]
n. the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men.


First, if we just take the definition of feminism, it does lead me to a question. What does feminism have left to accomplish? What rights do men have that women don't? I've tried to think of some, but none come to mind.



What kind of rational, fair being would disagree with a simple view of equal rights?

As for this, it really comes down to the difficulty of equalizing the rights of men and women who are biologically different. For example, when my wife gives birth to a child, I get a week off work paid. However, she gets six weeks off paid. Is that fair? In my opinion? Absolutely. Is it equal? Not really. Should it be? Depends on who you ask, but I don't think it should be. But if feminism by definition requests equal rights, then I, as a fair, rational person, would have to disagree with feminism.

[itsbecca]

First, if we just take the definition of feminism, it does lead me to a question. What does feminism have left to accomplish? What rights do men have that women don't? I've tried to think of some, but none come to mind.

That has nothing to do with the point, so I don't see any reason to start a prolonged debate about sexism as it still exists in our society.


As for this, it really comes down to the difficulty of equalizing the rights of men and women who are biologically different. For example, when my wife gives birth to a child, I get a week off work paid. However, she gets six weeks off paid. Is that fair? In my opinion? Absolutely. Is it equal? Not really. Should it be? Depends on who you ask, but I don't think it should be. But if feminism by definition requests equal rights, then I, as a fair, rational person, would have to disagree with feminism.

Aside from the initial time for recovery, which is medical, maternity leave is to spend time with the child and adjust into a new lifestyle. I don't understand why the mother should be afforded more time. You'd have to explain this to me. Although, to be fair, you're talking about rights of fathers here, not feminism. It relates, in that, it overlaps with women being pigeonholed into the sole caretaker role. But it's definitely a distinct issue on it's own.

[katang]

That has nothing to do with the point, so I don't see any reason to start a prolonged debate about sexism as it still exists in our society.


I agree. I would rather not start a whole debate about sexism in our society.

My initial point still stands that I don't think it is fair to call Dave Sim a misogynist for his hatred of feminism. I also agree, that feminism, by definition sounds really good and should be something every rational, fair person should support. I'm not sure if Dave Sim agrees with this or not, but what is clear is that Dave Sim thinks that feminism in practice has had many detrimental effects on western society.

Now, there are many rational, fair people that feel western society is going in the wrong direction. From a political standpoint, they are usually called conservatives, which is the camp that I think Dave Sim would fall into. This wrong direction that society is going in is, in Dave Sim's analysis of the situation, largely attributed to the simultaneous rise of feminism. Unfortunately for Dave Sim, you cannot attack feminism without being attacked as being a misogynist. I don't think Dave Sim has any problem with you disagreeing or attacking his views on feminism or anything else. I just don't think its fair to start throwing around labels, which is really just a adult form of name-calling.

[labor_days]

But to be fair, the shit Sim has to say about Feminism is kinda ridiculous.

Fifteen Impossible Things to Believe Before Breakfast That Make You a Good Feminist

1. A mother who works a full-time job and delegates to strangers the raising of her children eight hours a day, five days a week does just as good a job as a mother who hand-rears her children full time.

2. It makes great sense for the government to pay 10 to 15,000 dollars a year to fund a daycare space for a child so its mother - who pays perhaps 2,000 dollars in taxes - can be a contributing member of society.

3. A woman's doctor has more of a valid claim to participate in the decision to abort a fetus than does the father of that fetus.

4. So long as a woman makes a decision after consulting with her doctor, she is incapable of making an unethical choice.

5. A car with two steering wheels, two gas pedals and two brakes drives more efficiently than a car with one steering wheel, one gas pedal and one brake which is why marriage should always be an equal partnership.

6. It is absolutely necessary for women to be allowed to join or participate fully in any gathering place for men, just as it is absolutely necessary that there be women only environments from which men are excluded.

7. Because it involves taking jobs away from men and giving them to women, affirmative action makes for a fairer and more just society.

8. It is important to have lower physical standards for women firepersons and women policepersons so that, one day, half of all firepersons and policepersons will be women, thus more effectively protecting the safety of the public.

9. Affirmative action at colleges and universities needs to be maintained now that more women than men are being enrolled, in order to keep from giving men an unfair advantage academically.

10. Having ensured that there is no environment for men where women don't belong (see no.6) it is important to have zero tolerance of any expression or action which any woman might regard as sexist to ensure greater freedom for everyone.

11. Only in a society which maintains a level of 95% of alimony and child support being paid by men to women can men and women be considered as equals.

12. An airline stewardess who earned $20,000 a year at the time that she married a baseball player earning $6 million a year is entitled, in the event of a divorce, to $3 million for each year of the marriage and probably more.

13. A man's opinions on how to rear and/or raise a child are invalid because he is not the child's mother. However, his financial obligation is greater because no woman gets pregnant by herself.

14. Disagreeing with any of these statements makes you anti-woman and/or a misogynist.

15. Legislature Seats must be allocated to women and women must be allowed to bypass the democratic winnowing process in order to guarantee female representation and, thereby, make democracy fairer.

Sim began every one of his blog posts with this for a year.

[charlie-blix]

But to be fair, the shit Sim has to say about Feminism is kinda ridiculous.


Sim began everyone of his blog posts with this for a year.


umm... yeah this guy is a dick. I'm with Conor on this one. Not buying anything he does.

[xyzzy]

I agree. I would rather not start a whole debate about sexism in our society.

My initial point still stands that I don't think it is fair to call Dave Sim a misogynist for his hatred of feminism. I also agree, that feminism, by definition sounds really good and should be something every rational, fair person should support. I'm not sure if Dave Sim agrees with this or not, but what is clear is that Dave Sim thinks that feminism in practice has had many detrimental effects on western society.

Now, there are many rational, fair people that feel western society is going in the wrong direction. From a political standpoint, they are usually called conservatives, which is the camp that I think Dave Sim would fall into. This wrong direction that society is going in is, in Dave Sim's analysis of the situation, largely attributed to the simultaneous rise of feminism. Unfortunately for Dave Sim, you cannot attack feminism without being attacked as being a misogynist. I don't think Dave Sim has any problem with you disagreeing or attacking his views on feminism or anything else. I just don't think its fair to start throwing around labels, which is really just a adult form of name-calling.

You, know, "conservative" is also a label. As is feminist. If the shoe fits.

I've read Dave Sims views and I think he's a misogynist. But if you don't like that label, I'm happy to just say that he's a bad person. How's that for name calling? Honestly, I prefer misogynist, because it's more specific as to the reason he's a bad person, but the gist is the same.

I think you're really just too wrapped up in the meaning of the word misogynist and are defining it too narrowly. If I say, for example, that The Ultimates is a good comic, does that mean there's nothing bad about it? No, of course not. If I say that I'm a Liberal, does that mean that all of my political views are in lock-step with the Green party? No, of course not. Similarly, if I say that Dave Sim is a misogynist, does that mean, that every thought he has of women is angry and hateful? No, of course not.

I think that you can make a pretty good argument that his views are not strongly reflected in his work (which is impressive and groundbreaking) and that one should consider the work separately from the artist, without prejudice. I personally strive towards this. I think, however, that defending Sims actual views is nigh impossible.

[paper]

Yeah, I'm done with this guy too.

[gobo]

To be fair some of those things are valid complaints (like the lower standards for female firefighters, and the no men's only clubs stuff). But most of it is absurd.

[xyzzy]

To be fair some of those things are valid complaints (like the lower standards for female firefighters, and the no men's only clubs stuff). But most of it is absurd.

Except they don't have lower standards for female firefighters (that I'm aware of), so to even bring it up is kind of silly. The whole list is really just a big straw man argument.

[katang]

To be fair some of those things are valid complaints (like the lower standards for female firefighters, and the no men's only clubs stuff). But most of it is absurd.

Well, I hope no one calls you a misogynist. It has happened to people before. I will not call you one, though. I think it is possible to agree with some or most of those statements and not be a woman-hater.

However, I find it tragic for our society when individuals do not have the ability to question the status quo without having one's character assassinated by the masses.

[xyzzy]

Well, I hope no one calls you a misogynist. It has happened to people before. I will not call you one, though. I think it is possible to agree with some or most of those statements and not be a woman-hater.

However, I find it tragic for our society when individuals do not have the ability to question the status quo without having one's character assassinated by the masses.

Don't be such a martyr. If you want to have a controversial opinion, go for it, but don't cry when it is subject to criticism.

[six-gun]

re: Katang

it's not character assassination bro

I'm one of those fabled "conservatives" of which you speak and as such I've often been at odds with the majority of people on here, however one lesson that I've learned is that just because everyone else disagrees with you it doesn't mean that they're assassinating your character, that's a bit presumptuous and assumes that we have nothing better to do than single you out (which we do)

[katang]

re: Katang

it's not character assassination bro

I'm one of those fabled "conservatives" of which you speak and as such I've often been at odds with the majority of people on here, however one lesson that I've learned is that just because everyone else disagrees with you it doesn't mean that they're assassinating your character, that's a bit presumptuous and assumes that we have nothing better to do than single you out (which we do)

I'm sorry. I was speaking in generalities. No one on this board has done anything to assassinate my character or offend me personally. I just really like Dave Sim as an artist and as a person (based on what I know about him from his writings and the one time I met him at a convention and talked to him for 30 seconds). Mostly, I'm just trying to defend him from being called a misogynist which I don't think he is. The truth is I can't "know" for certain whether he is or is not because I cannot read his mind or heart. I know that he does not consider himself to be one, so I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. If someone disagrees with his views, then I think they should attack his views, but there's no need to attack him personally with insults and labels which are a metaphorical scarlet letter in this day and age. Because that is, IMHO, a form a character assassination.

[xyzzy]

I'm sorry. I was speaking in generalities. No one on this board has done anything to assassinate my character or offend me personally. I just really like Dave Sim as an artist and as a person (based on what I know about him from his writings and the one time I met him at a convention and talked to him for 30 seconds). Mostly, I'm just trying to defend him from being called a misogynist which I don't think he is. The truth is I can't "know" for certain whether he is or is not because I cannot read his mind or heart. I know that he does not consider himself to be one, so I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. If someone disagrees with his views, then I think they should attack his views, but there's no need to attack him personally with insults and labels which are a metaphorical scarlet letter in this day and age. Because that is, IMHO, a form a character assassination.

If a guy comes up to me and says that he thinks that black people are less intelligent than white people, I'm going to say that he's a racist. Or is that wrong, because I can't read his mind and heart?

[paper]

I was lucky enough to purchase a Mind and Heart Reader from the Sharper Image before they went belly-up. Unfortunately I haven't received the shipment of Yeti tears from Tibet, so I have no way of powering it.

We don't know the man's inner most feelings. But there's significant information out there to warrant an opinion. And reason enough to stop reading his work. It's a gray world and at the end of the day, it's all subjective. I don't like what the man has to say, so I'm not going to read the book. My decision to make. I'm not basing my ill opinion on what anyone else says about the guy. I've made my decision based on what he wrote and published.

[valoharth]

I think of Dave Sim as the Ann Colter or the Al Frankton of the comic world, he just says these things to sell books. Does he believe the stuff he says, who the hell knows, all I do know is controversy sells books. Take a look at Ann Colter books, she sells just as many books to people who are "Left" as she does to the "Right".

Because I think Dave Sim is just trying to muck up controversy in a bad way just to sell books, I don't buy his books. I don't like encouraging that kind of behavior, just like I wont buy a Jack Thompson book because he is attacking video games to make a buck.

And I just chimed in because no one mentioned that, now I'm going to leave this subject alone.

[jimski]

My favorite comment on Glamourpuss so far came from Occasional Superheroine (http://occasionalsuperheroine.blogspot.com/):

I was going to just draw my review by tracing panels from old issues of Cerebus and then putting my review in the word balloons, but I decided against it.