Episode 8 - Nim [Discussion] [Archive]

deezy

05-08-2008, 05:32 PM

hahahah what a great game! Thanks Brian!

It looks like you would have most success using something not metalic for the palm as it may make some noise when doing the drop...love the match head idea or the cereal.

rekzai

05-08-2008, 10:49 PM

I'm totally trying this on my friends

secret-steve-crumbles

05-08-2008, 11:09 PM

Um.....

So, am I the only one who didn't hear what to do when they want to play again AFTER you have already added the extra match? Point behind them and steal one match out of the pile?

travislopes

05-08-2008, 11:15 PM

Um.....

So, am I the only one who didn't hear what to do when they want to play again AFTER you have already added the extra match? Point behind them and steal one match out of the pile?
No. You just put the extra match in the pile and then take that one out. Then you are back to 17 when they begin.

I have tried it several times with family members. Haven't been caught once. :D

shwooddotcom

05-08-2008, 11:41 PM

Um.....

So, am I the only one who didn't hear what to do when they want to play again AFTER you have already added the extra match? Point behind them and steal one match out of the pile?

Just re-steal the match while you gather all the matches in a pile for the next round. Or leave it in there and take out one more than you need to the first round.

nextgenxbox

05-09-2008, 12:06 AM

Awesome. This one is in the book. And it was one of my favorites! Glad to see it in video format!:)

xanderpaul

05-09-2008, 07:09 AM

I've been watching this since ep.1(yea, 8 episodes no big deal) and I turn 21 on monday and can't wait to start using these tricks for drinks. I already used the human chimney on some friends and am gonna go practice Nim on them the next couple of days. Hope everyone else is having luck using these tricks

pcbb_david

05-09-2008, 11:18 AM

Just re-steal the match while you gather all the matches in a pile for the next round. Or leave it in there and take out one more than you need to the first round.

awesome.

this is one of the scams that can be international too. ive found it works in countries like china and norway. free beer for all!

mrpopular

05-09-2008, 08:49 PM

Great Trick.. I have a bachelor party next weekend. I'm definitely going to be using some of these Scams.. (hopefully get some on tape & send them 2 ya)

rev3fan

05-10-2008, 10:23 AM

and just found this show.....AWESOME!!!!!!!!!

kickarse

05-10-2008, 02:25 PM

masherscf

05-10-2008, 02:48 PM

Wouldn't it be easier to just do quick math and come out on top when you have to start first??

Totally saw that coming. It's good the people your doing this on are drunk and tired. Good ep though, I love the production value!

The whole trick is based on Math...modular arithmetic actually. You have to make sure that the guy is stuck with one plus some multiple of 4.

So, if you are choosing first, you can still finagle a win without cheating. But, that isn't guaranteed. He can basically do to you what you wanted to do to him.

So, to guarantee a win, you have to cheat.

shwooddotcom

05-10-2008, 08:44 PM

The whole trick is based on Math...modular arithmetic actually. You have to make sure that the guy is stuck with one plus some multiple of 4.

So, if you are choosing first, you can still finagle a win without cheating. But, that isn't guaranteed. He can basically do to you what you wanted to do to him.

So, to guarantee a win, you have to cheat.

Exactly. The odds are still hugely in your favor, even if you go first, but you can only guarantee a win by going second or ringing in an extra token.

Nim can be played as totally legit, usually by pouring a mountain of matches token on to the table (the total number unknown to both players... supposedly). There's some interesting variations that actually use different values of playing cards, too.

kickarse

05-11-2008, 02:06 AM

I'm looking forward to the playing cards version.

Word of advice, don't play this game against Rain man.

masherscf

05-11-2008, 03:07 AM

Exactly. The odds are still hugely in your favor, even if you go first, but you can only guarantee a win by going second or ringing in an extra token.

Nim can be played as totally legit, usually by pouring a mountain of matches token on to the table (the total number unknown to both players... supposedly). There's some interesting variations that actually use different values of playing cards, too.

The odds are hugely in your favor if the other guy doesn't have a Ph.D. in Math. I noticed right away your were picking up the mod 4 inverse. I didn't figure on the cheat.

kickarse

05-12-2008, 03:35 PM

The odds are hugely in your favor if the other guy doesn't have a Ph.D. in Math. I noticed right away your were picking up the mod 4 inverse. I didn't figure on the cheat.

PhD in math? What? A basic understanding of subtraction/addition can net you a win.

Alas, you can't win if it's been rigged.

masherscf

05-12-2008, 03:55 PM

PhD in math? What? A basic understanding of subtraction/addition can net you a win.

Alas, you can't win if it's been rigged.

I guess the idea is, if you've been in a bar drinking, you're probably thinking about that cute chickypoo at the end and not about modular arithmetic.

This Nim game reminds me of an old chess hustle. You bet someone that he can't win two games of chess simultaneously. However, you require him to play white in one game and black on the other. As soon as he makes his first white move, you duplicate this move in the second game. The guy ends up playing himself. For the hustle to work, he has to make the first move.

shwooddotcom

05-12-2008, 05:25 PM

This Nim game reminds me of an old chess hustle. You bet someone that he can't win two games of chess simultaneously. However, you require him to play white in one game and black on the other. As soon as he makes his first white move, you duplicate this move in the second game. The guy ends up playing himself. For the hustle to work, he has to make the first move.

Wait... wouldn't that only work if during the 2nd game he just happened to respond each move exactly as you did in the 1st game?

The way I heard the hustle was to play 8 games simultaneously against 8 players, and win or draw at least half of them. Then the con man's just playing postman, ferrying the moves from side A to Side B and vice versa.

Maybe that would be a good SS episode... Brian plays chess against the entire staff of Rev3...

nextgenxbox

05-12-2008, 08:32 PM

Maybe that would be a good SS episode... Brian plays chess against the entire staff of Rev3...

That'd be hilarious!

bigshotprof

05-14-2008, 05:21 PM

shwooddotcom

05-14-2008, 11:42 PM

I hate the be a spoil sport (spoiled sport?), but palming the match seems to violate the spirit of the scam. A good scam should include the reality that the person could have seen it coming. This is just a cheat.

Whaddaya think?

What?! …are you suggesting that, in fact, a game taught on “Scam School” is anything less than totally fair?!

Why, I’ve never, in all my years…. Hrpmh!!

Good day to you, sir!

I SAID GOOD DAY!

-Brian

PS - yes. it's totally unfair. :-)

xibalba

05-15-2008, 12:46 AM

The point of a scam is to cheat someone somehow is it not?

Not really a scam if you can lose some how...

masherscf

05-15-2008, 03:16 AM

Wait... wouldn't that only work if during the 2nd game he just happened to respond each move exactly as you did in the 1st game?

The idea is you play the 2 games simultaneously. He plays white in game#1 and black in Game #2, you always replicate his move.

Do you have a email to accept submissions? I have a numbers based trick that not only has netted me a few free beers, it actually inspired my career.

shwooddotcom

05-15-2008, 03:21 AM

Do you have a email to accept submissions? I have a numbers based trick that not only has netted me a few free beers, it actually inspired my career.

Awesome! Shoot it over to me at brian at revision3.com

xibalba

05-15-2008, 03:34 AM

The idea is you play the 2 games simultaneously. He plays white in game#1 and black in Game #2, you always replicate his move.

Do you have a email to accept submissions? I have a numbers based trick that not only has netted me a few free beers, it actually inspired my career.

I guess even math professors can be down right sneaky and scammy sometimes. :D

masherscf

05-15-2008, 04:02 AM

I guess even math professors can be down right sneaky and scammy sometimes. :D

I was off-duty.

I also have a collection of brain teasers that people usually get wrong and a game involving connecting the dots in a lattice.

Question: How many points on the surface of the earth can you walk a mile south, a mile west and a mile north and end up at the same spot you started. The obvious , but wrong, answer is one, and after a beer or two, a person will often wager a drink that answer is correct.

xibalba

05-15-2008, 04:31 AM

Seems like people would answer randomly seeing as they are drunk.

0,1,and 2 be choosen the most though.

bigshotprof

05-15-2008, 01:00 PM

The point of a scam is to cheat someone somehow is it not?

Not really a scam if you can lose some how...

I politely disagree. The great scam is the one where after you've been had you realize you should have seen it coming--like the race or the one Harry Anderson used to do where he would put his hat over the shot and pretend to drink it through the bottom of the bar. With the exception of the match trick, this is the only one yet on scam school that actually cheats the chump.

xibalba

05-15-2008, 03:36 PM

scam
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): scammed; scam·ming

1 : deceive, defraud
2 : to obtain (as money) by a scam.

scam
Pronunciation: \ˈskam\
Function: noun

: a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation

cheat
Pronunciation: \ˈchēt\
Function: verb
transitive verb

1: to deprive of something valuable by the use of deceit or fraud
2: to influence or lead by deceit, trick, or artifice
3: to elude or thwart by or as if by outwitting <cheat death>
intransitive verb

1 a: to practice fraud or trickery b: to violate rules dishonestly <cheat at cards> <cheating on a test>
2: to be sexually unfaithful —usually used with on<was cheating on his wife>
3: to position oneself defensively near a particular area in anticipation of a play in that area

cheat
Function: noun

1: the act or an instance of fraudulently deceiving : deception,
fraud
2: one that cheats : pretender, deceiver

Sounds pretty close to the same thing...

shwooddotcom

05-15-2008, 05:40 PM

I politely disagree. The great scam is the one where after you've been had you realize you should have seen it coming--like the race or the one Harry Anderson used to do where he would put his hat over the shot and pretend to drink it through the bottom of the bar. With the exception of the match trick, this is the only one yet on scam school that actually cheats the chump.

scam
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): scammed; scam·ming

I see where both you guys are coming from. Of course, the very word "scam" does mean to cheat, and we'll certainly have a lot of episodes where we do just that.

But if you're pulling a fast one at the bar (and actually want to enjoy the free drink), then the prof's right: a good bar bet should be like a good riddle... all the elements should be right there in front of your face, so as soon as you lose, you should have this total "I shoulda seen that coming!" moment.

There's a lot of different material we're teaching in scam school: some are bar bets, some are magic tricks, and some straight-up street cons. Nim's in the latter category, but don't worry, we've got PLENTY more bar-bets coming.

speed

05-15-2008, 06:00 PM

The idea is you play the 2 games simultaneously. He plays white in game#1 and black in Game #2, you always replicate his move.

Do you have a email to accept submissions? I have a numbers based trick that not only has netted me a few free beers, it actually inspired my career.

But if the person reacts to Game #2 differently than you react to Game #1, couldn't that make replicating his moves from Game #1 impossible?

masherscf

05-15-2008, 06:47 PM

But if the person reacts to Game #2 differently than you react to Game #1, couldn't that make replicating his moves from Game #1 impossible?

Game #1 Player is White, you are black.
Game #2 You are White, player is black.

Game #1 Player moves white piece.
Game #2 You move white piece as player moved in game 1
Game #2 Player moves black piece to respond.
Game #1 You move black piece as player moves in game 2

Seems like people would answer randomly seeing as they are drunk.

0,1,and 2 be choosen the most though.

The correct answer isn't finite. Unless the drunkard makes the logical leap that includes infinite possibilities, any answer he gives is wrong.

xibalba

05-15-2008, 07:33 PM

If you think about it too much you start to get confused. I believe I understand it.

proof

06-05-2008, 02:22 AM

Wait... wouldn't that only work if during the 2nd game he just happened to respond each move exactly as you did in the 1st game?

The way I heard the hustle was to play 8 games simultaneously against 8 players, and win or draw at least half of them. Then the con man's just playing postman, ferrying the moves from side A to Side B and vice versa.

Maybe that would be a good SS episode... Brian plays chess against the entire staff of Rev3...

Someone did that on the Discovery Channel once, requires a lot of memorization, but a really neat thing to watch.

Back to topic at hand, first time I tried nim I got caught. Granted my friend was sober, but he asked how many matches I was starting with one game, and noticed the 18th match the second game. Luckily there was no wager on the line.

johnosullivan

06-05-2008, 12:07 PM

I was off-duty.

I also have a collection of brain teasers that people usually get wrong and a game involving connecting the dots in a lattice.

Question: How many points on the surface of the earth can you walk a mile south, a mile west and a mile north and end up at the same spot you started. The obvious , but wrong, answer is one, and after a beer or two, a person will often wager a drink that answer is correct.

So what is the answer? I heard a variation of this before, but cant remember the answer!!! (Unless its the North Pole?)

rabidbadger

06-29-2008, 09:17 PM

So what is the answer? I heard a variation of this before, but cant remember the answer!!! (Unless its the North Pole?)

OK, this is driving me nuts, (I should take the steering wheel out of my pants :D)

sure, the north pole is the obvious one, but Masher is insinuating there are more than one. can't be the south pole, cause you can't walk south...

Is time involved? maybe anywhere on the equator? Or just anywhere? walk a mile south. hover in place for 6 months. walk west, hover 6 months, walk a north, and the earths rotation has caught up with you. Ugh. that's just stupid.

Is the North pole different from true north? Magnetic north? Is that the second spot?

OK masher. sneak me the answer in PM or chat, damn you.
;)

furai

02-20-2009, 07:22 PM

I'm here to figure out nim though. I'm probably over thinking this but it seems like it takes a skill that I don't know how to do or develop.

Q1: Before the entire game starts I must smuggle an 18th match into my hand? How do I do that?

We play some practice rounds where regardless of who starts, I respond by drawing the wrong amount and losing, keeping the 18th hidden in my hand. Then we decide to make a wager where I win.

Since its a bet I give them the choice of who goes first. When they want me to go first, I need to get the 18th out of my hand. So I place my hand over the pile, ask them if they are sure they want me to go first, if they say "no" then I just keep it where I was holding it. If they say "yes, you go first", then I drop the 18th and with my first move I remove 1 match, then proceed to play by 4's just as if they had started. Resulting in me winning.

Q2: Is the scam over now?

Q3: What if they want to still play?