Pick of the Week Podcast Episode #132 - Pretty Baby Machine #1

[six-gun]

The guys are in Seattle, so no show notes till later this week.

They discuss Josh's Pick of the Week for May 7, 2008:

http://www.ifanboy.com/comics/image_comics/pretty_baby_machine/1_(of_3)/cover-thumb.jpg
Pretty Baby Machine #1
by:CLARK WESTERMAN art KODY CHAMBERLAIN

Click here for download info and show notes! (http://ifanboy.com/podcasts/audio/05_11_08_-_Episode__132_-_Pretty_Baby_Machine__1)

Click here to read the Pick of the Week review! (http://www.ifanboy.com/content/potw/05_07_2008_-_Pretty_Baby_Machine__1)

Click here to see the iFanboy Mini review! (http://www.ifanboy.com/podcasts/video/iFanboy_Mini_-_Episode__40_-_Pretty_Baby_Machine__1)

[labor_days]

I wish with all my heart that the Captain America theory is true. That would blow my mind.


edit: Also, best intro music to the show ever.

[six-gun]

edit: Also, best intro music to the show ever.

Uh, The Infanta

[paper]

Correct. The Infanta wins.

[labor_days]

I'm just going to assume you both are ignorant of My Bloody Valentine. Because that is completely ridiculous.

[paper]

It sounded all distorted and weird. Like it was a bad recording.

[gobo]

I was fairly certain that all the Nick Fury stuff happened in the recent past. So this happened before the events of Messiah Complex.

[paper]

It appeared that Ares was still in civilian mode. So that could very well be the case.

[luthor]

That was also the impression I got, that all this stuff was a lead in and not taking place in "current" time.

[paper]

So, basically we're looking at an accelerated origin for Fury's new team. By the next issue, they'll be training? And then all of a sudden, they're unleashed upon the Secret Invasion battle? That's kind of cool.

[six-gun]

It appeared that Ares was still in civilian mode. So that could very well be the case.

The Ares scene took place right after he was recruited for the Mighty Avengers.

Ares is awesome.

[racemccloud]

As usual, great show, guys. Just a couple of nitpicks... I'll add my voice to those saying that, yeah, I thought it was VERY clear that all this Nick Fury stuff in Mighty Avengers was a flashback (just like the Skrull story in New Avengers), and Layla was there because this is all taking place before Messiah Complex. And I've said this around a couple of places, but I'll bring it up again here because you guys brought up: Luke Cage starts a stupid fight, even though the God of War tells him not to, because LUKE CAGE IS A SKRULL! And his job is to instigate violence where it isn't needed. And HIS BABY IS THE SKRULL MESSIAH. Maybe that's pushing it, but I'll bet he's a Skrull. Still, I agree, SI #2 and the new MA both weren't as good as their preceding issues, but I still enjoyed them both.

[mikegraham6]

RaceMcCloud is right, Mighty took place 6 months ago

[dave-accampo]

Still listening to the podcast, but came here to suggest that Mighty Avengers took place in the recent past...but it looks like everyone is already on top of it... :D

[rochvail]

Thanks for reading my email regarding Captain America! I have to correct you on the pronunciation of my name... :eek: even though I spell it "Roch", it should be pronounced "Rock".

The H is silent... it's a French Canadian thing. We're just weird like that.

[labor_days]

It sounded all distorted and weird. Like it was a bad recording.

This quote makes me wish I was dead.

[paper]

Ah, I love messing with you people.

[labor_days]

http://i26.tinypic.com/2hz0sv4.jpg

[cormano]

As usual, great show, guys. Just a couple of nitpicks... I'll add my voice to those saying that, yeah, I thought it was VERY clear that all this Nick Fury stuff in Mighty Avengers was a flashback (just like the Skrull story in New Avengers), and Layla was there because this is all taking place before Messiah Complex. And I've said this around a couple of places, but I'll bring it up again here because you guys brought up: Luke Cage starts a stupid fight, even though the God of War tells him not to, because LUKE CAGE IS A SKRULL! And his job is to instigate violence where it isn't needed. And HIS BABY IS THE SKRULL MESSIAH. Maybe that's pushing it, but I'll bet he's a Skrull. Still, I agree, SI #2 and the new MA both weren't as good as their preceding issues, but I still enjoyed them both.

Agreed on all points.

I was shocked to hear that Ron never watched the 90's X-Men cartoon! It is so great. Batman TAS has far superior animation, but X-Men is right up there with it as far as story. They did excellent adaptations of tons of Claremont's storylines. Season one has Days of Future Past, but seasons 3 and 4 are packed with greatness. You have the Phoenix and Dark Phoenix Sagas, Proteus, a great Savage Land story, Have Yourself a Morlock Little Christmas, Phalanx Covenant, Jubilee's (yeah…) Fairy Tale Theater, No Mutant is an Island, etc…

[gobo]

Thanks for reading my email regarding Captain America! I have to correct you on the pronunciation of my name... :eek: even though I spell it "Roch", it should be pronounced "Rock".

The H is silent... it's a French Canadian thing. We're just weird like that.

Good ol' Roch Voisine

[ronxo]

Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa
everyone here and everyone at the Seattle Con seemed to pick up on the flashback, but I missed it - I haven't had a chance to go back and re-read the issue, but I will and you all will probably be right...

also, I think I missed Teen Titans #3, hence the confusion at issue #4...

what else did we get wrong? i cant keep track

[racemccloud]

Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa
everyone here and everyone at the Seattle Con seemed to pick up on the flashback, but I missed it - I haven't had a chance to go back and re-read the issue, but I will and you all will probably be right...

also, I think I missed Teen Titans #3, hence the confusion at issue #4...

what else did we get wrong? i cant keep track

I believe you did miss Teen Titans #3, because I was really confused why the story made no sense to you. Also, I don't think anywhere in the MA issue is it explicitly stated that this is a flashback. It's just assumed. And I know Bendis has been saying for awhile that the Avengers books will be showing us where key events happened in the past while "Secret Invasion" is going on.

[racemccloud]

Agreed on all points.

I was shocked to hear that Ron never watched the 90's X-Men cartoon! It is so great. Batman TAS has far superior animation, but X-Men is right up there with it as far as story. They did excellent adaptations of tons of Claremont's storylines. Season one has Days of Future Past, but seasons 3 and 4 are packed with greatness. You have the Phoenix and Dark Phoenix Sagas, Proteus, a great Savage Land story, Have Yourself a Morlock Little Christmas, Phalanx Covenant, Jubilee's (yeah…) Fairy Tale Theater, No Mutant is an Island, etc…

That X-Men series drove me crazy, because by the time it came on, I was past the whole "getting up to watch cartoons every Saturday" phase of my life, and if I missed an episode, I was totally lost. Just like if you missed an issue of Claremont's run.

And "Batman: The Animated Series" was a far better show simply because that IS the definitive Batman for a generation. Okay, maybe that doesn't make it better, but it's far more definitive. Well, I thought it was better.

[conorkilpatrick]

And "Batman: The Animated Series" was a far better show simply because that IS the definitive Batman for a generation. Okay, maybe that doesn't make it better, but it's far more definitive. Well, I thought it was better.

No, it was better. Better written, better animated, etc. Doesn't make the X-Men cartoon bad, there are few cartoons at all better than Batman: The Animated Series.

[six-gun]

there are few cartoons at all better than Batman: The Animated Series.

I can't think of a better series

[grayson]

Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa
everyone here and everyone at the Seattle Con seemed to pick up on the flashback, but I missed it - I haven't had a chance to go back and re-read the issue, but I will and you all will probably be right...

also, I think I missed Teen Titans #3, hence the confusion at issue #4...

what else did we get wrong? i cant keep track

page 1 panel 1 says 6 months ago.

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/4402/mightyavengerspage1yh5.th.jpg (http://img185.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mightyavengerspage1yh5.jpg)
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/4402/mightyavengerspage1yh5.jpg

[racemccloud]

page 1 panel 1 says 6 months ago.

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/1559/mightyavengerspage1oc7.th.jpg (http://img265.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mightyavengerspage1oc7.jpg)

Well, there you go, then.

[radconsv]

Hi guys, just downloaded your show for the first time. I have to say I like how you guys interact with one another and your reviews are really top notch. Having been away from comics for almost 20 years, it is cool to have a podcast that is not to noobish and not to (if you pardon the pun) fanboyish. Please keep up the good work and I think the newsreel vooice must appear in every show. it is that good! Please keep up the great work.

[mikegraham6]

don't mean to sound like a negative nancy, but i was disppointed with this episode....

[labor_days]

well, what disappointed you about this episode?

[mikegraham6]

page 1 panel 1 says 6 months ago.

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/4402/mightyavengerspage1yh5.th.jpg (http://img185.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mightyavengerspage1yh5.jpg)
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/4402/mightyavengerspage1yh5.jpg
Bendis wanted an excuse to write the character he created again (Layla Miller). he's said in interviews that Peter David made that character 100x more interesting that what he did with her

[mikegraham6]

well, what disappointed you about this episode?
im wary of posting too much criticism on this forum. Im a big fan of the show and i've been listening for almost 2 years, so you guys know i have no illwill or anything, but my MAIN disappointment was with the book of the month stuff. it felt so superfluous that it almost became an ad for the book rather than an actual discussion. And i know they've already talked about Hellboy before so most of the discussion would be redundant, but then why choose it in the first place, again this makes it feel more like an ad then a recommendation. Top that off with the followup ad for the book from their sponsor and the segment left a real bad taste in my mouth.
That's all i'll get into now though, i don't want to get too detailed since this is their forum and they've basically been giving me a product for free for the past 2 years.

(....now everyone's gonna hate me.....:()

[six-gun]

(....now everyone's gonna hate me.....:()

Ron's continuity obsession annoyed me a bit this show for some reason.

There, now they can hate us both! ;)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a161/Sn4ke22/ShieldWall97118.jpg

Lock shields bro! :D

[mikegraham6]

Six is always there to cover my back. Six if there's ever a war, i want you in my squad!

[six-gun]

Six is always there to cover my back. Six if there's ever a war, i want you in my squad!

totally bro, you ever get into trouble, just let me know :D

[labor_days]

I think the guys are big Hellboy fans. So there is that.

Also, I think Conor has the right of it when he said the oversized volumes are for the art. I am not a Hellboy fan, but that is some spectacular sequential storytelling in Mignola's art.

Didn't feel like an ad to me as I know the fanboys are fans of the series/creator.

[jaflanagan]

Please feel free to post (constructive) criticism. We won't hold it against you.

The Hellboy book was a challenge, to be sure, since we've done a whole show on Hellboy, including the volumes that are in the Library Edition. But the thing is, that book is awesome. It's not an ad for the book, because we don't get paid for telling you its awesome. And we don't get anything from instocktrades if they sell more, but they've offered to sell the book at a hell of a discount, to benefit the readers more than anything else.

There I know there's some more Mignola based content coming up next week, and in addition to the admittedly short discussion on the audio show, there was a Mini episode (http://www.ifanboy.com/content/video/iFanboy_Mini_-_Episode__41_-_Book_of_the_Month___Hellboy_Library_Edition_Vol__ 1) about the book yesterday, and a whole written review (http://www.ifanboy.com/content/botm/HELLBOY_LIBRARY_ED_HC_VOL_01_SEED_OF_DESTRUCTION__ _WAKE_THE) on iFanboy.com.

[conorkilpatrick]

And i know they've already talked about Hellboy before so most of the discussion would be redundant, but then why choose it in the first place, again this makes it feel more like an ad then a recommendation.

For the reason stated in the review, the mini and on the podcast - for the presentation of Mignola's art. I thought that was stated pretty clearly.

[humphrey-lee]

Six is always there to cover my back. Six if there's ever a war, i want you in my squad!

... *distracts Six with shiny video game things*


*shivs Mike*


Take that you Canadian bastard!! :D

[kashyyyk]

Ron's continuity obsession annoyed me a bit this show for some reason.

Actually, I'll come to Ron's defense. I thought one of the attractions of the Marvel U. was the idea that these characters all existed on a single world. IF that's true, then the storytelling should align with that idea. Layla showing up breaks down the whole deal.

I don't want to be too worried about continuity, but you can't have it both ways. Sometimes I think comments that dismiss obvious and glaring continuity errors are excuses for bad storytelling or bad editorial.

[paper]

Sure, but as discussed earlier in this thread, Layla's cameo is justified because the story takes place in the past.

[mikegraham6]

I think the guys are big Hellboy fans. So there is that.

Also, I think Conor has the right of it when he said the oversized volumes are for the art. I am not a Hellboy fan, but that is some spectacular sequential storytelling in Mignola's art.

Didn't feel like an ad to me as I know the fanboys are fans of the series/creator.

i can appreciate the reasons why it was chosen, but what i'm saying is that the iFanboy's had typically led a discussion about the Book of the Month, this one fell short. Sure, they mentioned the art, but that's only half of a book. They have gone into detail about Hellboy before so i guess there's no need for discussion on the story, but the choice just didn't seem relevant to me when i was listening to the 'cast (especially considering it has already been talked about). Like i said, it felt like the choice was made because DCBS was offering a discount (mentioned right after the brief discussion) but since iFanboy has built up enough cred in my book, i can write it off as unintentional. But subtle advertising is something i'm always wary of in a free product, you never know when that stuff can get slipped in. Hell, even if the book of the month was JUST about a trade that was offered at a discount that would be fine, it would just be overt advertising, which im fine with.
Please feel free to post (constructive) criticism. We won't hold it against you.

The Hellboy book was a challenge, to be sure, since we've done a whole show on Hellboy, including the volumes that are in the Library Edition. But the thing is, that book is awesome. It's not an ad for the book, because we don't get paid for telling you its awesome. And we don't get anything from instocktrades if they sell more, but they've offered to sell the book at a hell of a discount, to benefit the readers more than anything else.

There I know there's some more Mignola based content coming up next week, and in addition to the admittedly short discussion on the audio show, there was a Mini episode (http://www.ifanboy.com/content/video/iFanboy_Mini_-_Episode__41_-_Book_of_the_Month___Hellboy_Library_Edition_Vol__ 1) about the book yesterday, and a whole written review (http://www.ifanboy.com/content/botm/HELLBOY_LIBRARY_ED_HC_VOL_01_SEED_OF_DESTRUCTION__ _WAKE_THE) on iFanboy.com.
I'm glad to hear this. I try not to be overly negative, i rarely complain about something that's free but had i been new to the show, i might have read into this differently . Anyway, i just figure, if anything it's a good heads up, i'm sure you don't want people to feel that way about your show. Like i said, i've been listening for 2 years so i know you guys aren't just trying to peddle stuff off on your fans for the sake of profit (and like you said, you don't make any off the DCBS discount anyway)
For the reason stated in the review, the mini and on the podcast - for the presentation of Mignola's art. I thought that was stated pretty clearly.
Well obviously it wasn't. When you've been presenting an in depth discussion on the book of the month and then drop it off to a 3 minute piece it feels like something is up. All i'm trying to say is that you kinda have to be careful when you offer up a free product. People are naturally inclined to be wary of "free", as they usually ask "what's the catch?" NOTE: i haven't had time to watch the mini yet, or read the review, all im basing this on is the podcast discussion.
... *distracts Six with shiny video game things*


*shivs Mike*


Take that you Canadian bastard!! :D

HUPHREY!!!!!!
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t268/mikegraham6/khan.jpg

Anyway, you guys all know i love the show so don't take any of this personally. (the Canadian in me constantly needs to appologize for everything)

[conorkilpatrick]

Well obviously it wasn't. When you've been presenting an in depth discussion on the book of the month and then drop it off to a 3 minute piece it feels like something is up.

Different books are going to lead to different lengthed discussions. There are no "rules" here. Sometimes we talk about the Pick of the Week for ten minutes. Sometimes for five. Do you get suspicious then?

All i'm trying to say is that you kinda have to be careful when you offer up a free product. People are naturally inclined to be wary of "free", as they usually ask "what's the catch?"

If that's true then that's the listener's hangup. Not something we can really worry about.

NOTE: i haven't had time to watch the mini yet, or read the review, all im basing this on is the podcast discussion.

We're a multi media unit now, so sometimes the more in-depth analysis is going to be somewhere other than the audio show.

Don't worry, we're not taking any of this personally.

[six-gun]

... *distracts Six with shiny video game things*


*shivs Mike*


Take that you Canadian bastard!! :D

Sonava! Dang it. It's my Achilles heel!

[xyzzy]

Okay, pet peeve time.

If you say that a book literally kicked your ass, you are saying that the book grew a foot and actually kicked you in your actual ass. If you say that you literally went through the roof, that means that your head physically broke the plane of the roof of the building you were in.

Using the word literally is a way of saying that a phrase that is typically meant to be interpreted figuratively actually occurred. It should not be used to merely emphasize a statement.

Please stop. Ron, I'm looking at you.

[paper]

That's only definition one. The second use really is for emphasis. While the examples you listed are extreme cases, they're acceptable. In fact, most uses of the word literal are compromises.

In the case of literally, the "right" meaning is said to be "exactly as described; in a literal way," because that's what the base word literal is supposed to mean. In fact, the literal meaning of literal would be something like "according to the letter," but it's almost never used this way. "He copied the manuscript literally" would be one possible example. So when we use literally to refer to something other than individual letters—to whole words, or to thoughts in general—we are already walking down the figurative path, and if we end up with people eating curry so hot that their mouths are "literally on fire," how surprised can we be?

--Jesse Sheidlower, Slate (http://www.slate.com/id/2129105/)

[jaflanagan]

That's a David Cross routine.

But, I knew just who you were talking about when you said it. Drives me nuts too.

Do you want me to leave the show? I will. I'll do it right now.

[xyzzy]

That's only definition one. The second use really is for emphasis. While the examples you listed are extreme cases, they're acceptable. In fact, most uses of the word literal are compromises.

Sorry, but no. I don't care if irregardless makes it into the dictionary and baloney is an acceptable spelling. It'll always be wrong to me. We shouldn't dumb down the language.

I don't know who you are quoting there, but it sounds more like he's saying that it shouldn't be surprising that people use the word incorrectly, not that it's a correct usage.

[gobo]

Xyzzy if you don't want language to evolve you might as well go back to talking in Olde Englishe

[valoharth]

Xyzzy have you ever read any Shakespeare? The guy would only use words incorrectly but he also made up words just so he could get Iambic-pentameter. There is no such thing to dumb down a language there is only an evolution of language.

Change is not bad, change is change it can't be good or bad.

[racemccloud]

I, for one, would literally enjoy seeing an issue of a comic book literally kick Ron's ass. Not that I have anything against Ron. It's just, that would be a helluva thing to see, y'know?

[racemccloud]

Okay, pet peeve time.

If you say that a book literally kicked your ass, you are saying that the book grew a foot and actually kicked you in your actual ass. If you say that you literally went through the roof, that means that your head physically broke the plane of the roof of the building you were in.

Using the word literally is a way of saying that a phrase that is typically meant to be interpreted figuratively actually occurred. It should not be used to merely emphasize a statement.

Please stop. Ron, I'm looking at you.

But I feel you, brother. I don't really care as much as you, but I'll get your back on this one. (Figuratively speaking.)

[xyzzy]

Xyzzy have you ever read any Shakespeare? The guy would only use words incorrectly but he also made up words just so he could get Iambic-pentameter. There is no such thing to dumb down a language there is only an evolution of language.

Well, I do think that there's a difference between intentionally misusing a word for effect and simply misusing it by accident.

Change is not bad, change is change it can't be good or bad.

What a silly thing to say. Of course change can be good or bad. Change I like is good. Change I don't like is bad.

[gobo]

There was a good thread about this in the popSiren forums about "itch"ing your nose.

[valoharth]

What a silly thing to say. Of course change can be good or bad. Change I like is good. Change I don't like is bad.

Something can change for the worst, and things can change for the better yes.

When I say Change is just Change, I'm saying that humans either lump it into two categories: Change is good or Change is bad. If you just look at change as being just what it is instead of lumping it into a defined category, it won’t bother you.

And as for the Shakespeare thing, you don't think the first person who used the term literally "wrong" on purpose? That a language Meme just appears with out thought? Someone had to of used it in the "wrong" way first and it just picked up.

[xyzzy]

Something can change for the worst, and things can change for the better yes.

When I say Change is just Change, I'm saying that humans either lump it into two categories: Change is good or Change is bad. If you just look at change as being just what it is instead of lumping it into a defined category, it won’t bother you.



This makes no sense to me. If you believe that you should think of all change as the same what's the point of doing anything? Lose your job, lose your home? Well, change is what it is, don't make put a judgment value on it. Lose your family, starve to death? Well, you shouldn't try to categorize change! It'll just make you worry.

No. You decide what you think is good and what you think is bad and you try to increase the number of good changes in your life and reduce the bad ones. To act any other way is insanity.

And as for the Shakespeare thing, you don't think the first person who used the term literally "wrong" on purpose? That a language Meme just appears with out thought? Someone had to of used it in the "wrong" way first and it just picked up.

While it's certainly possible, people do, in fact, use words wrong all the time unintentionally. For example, I often hear people say "I could care less" when they really mean, "I couldn't care less." They're not trying to be ironic, they just don't think about what they're saying.

[paper]

There is a point where the corpse stops resembling a horse and it just looks like a bunch of blokes banging sticks against the pavement.

;)

[valoharth]

Agreed Pol,

Anyway Xyzzy if you want to understand where I'm coming from with the whole change is change idea its better explored in Hardcore Zen and Shut Up and Sit Down by Brad Warner. They are interesting books.

[xyzzy]

There is a point where the corpse stops resembling a horse and it just looks like a bunch of blokes banging sticks against the pavement.

;)

If you think you guys have it bad, think of how my wife feels. About once a day, she says something to the effect of: "No. This conversation is over. Over!" It works about half the time.

[jimski]

I almost missed the "literal" conversation!

I'm torn.

Historically, hearing someone say that figurative things literally happened always reflexively set my teeth on edge. After years of speaking horrifically mangled Russian, though, I was reminded by a mentor of mine that the purpose of language is communication, and I took that to heart. In other words: if he says something, and I know what he meant, then mission accomplished.

No one really believes that the book propelled anyone through the roof, so what's the use of mobilizing the grammar police? Are chances to feel smarter than someone else really that hard to come by? On the internet? I have adopted much more of a laissez faire policy toward all this stuff.

[xyzzy]

I almost missed the "literal" conversation!

I'm torn.

Historically, hearing someone say that figurative things literally happened always reflexively set my teeth on edge. After years of speaking horrifically mangled Russian, though, I was reminded by a mentor of mine that the purpose of language is communication, and I took that to heart. In other words: if he says something, and I know what he meant, then mission accomplished.

No one really believes that the book propelled anyone through the roof, so what's the use of mobilizing the grammar police? Are chances to feel smarter than someone else really that hard to come by? On the internet? I have adopted much more of a laissez faire policy toward all this stuff.

I'll disagree with you on 2 points. 1) While the gist may be communicated, misuse of words will cause to to communicated less efficiently and completely. 2) The primary purpose of a car is to get you from point a to point b. But if it smells like a rotting corpse, that's a problem, despite not being directly related to its ability to transport you to your destiation.

It's not about feeling smarter than other people. As I said, it's a pet peeve. It bothers me. I want people to stop doing it. The only way I know how to do that is to ask them to stop. Do they have to do what I want? No, of course not. But it can't hurt to ask, right?

[jimski]

I'll disagree with you on 2 points. 1) While the gist may be communicated, misuse of words will cause to to communicated less efficiently and completely. 2) The primary purpose of a car is to get you from point a to point b. But if it smells like a rotting corpse, that's a problem, despite not being directly related to its ability to transport you to your destiation. yyyyeeeaaah, but there're a couple of grammar and spelling mistakes right there saying maybe we should leave these stones unthrown.

[xyzzy]

yyyyeeeaaah, but there're a couple of grammar and spelling mistakes right there saying maybe we should leave these stones unthrown.

If you want to correct a clear misunderstanding, go for it. If I'm going through life misusing some term or not understanding some piece of grammar, you're not doing me any favors by not telling me about it. Going after typos is petty, though.