Moderators and Revision3

[jay]

Fans and friends,

Please remember that the moderators working the Revision3 forums are acting on our behalf. Please don't blame them personally for Revision3 policy (for example, on the early distribution of member-release videos and posting of links) or for other enforcement of our membership rules.

While this is a place to express yourself, and certainly your opinion of us as an organization and/or our mods are acceptable as posts, we only ask that you try your best to separate what is professional issues vs. personal ones and direct accordingly. They are doing their job the best they can.

We're very proud of the dedication of our moderators. We are a young site, we're learning day by day, so feel free to send us feedback to webmaster@revision3.com.

Thanks,

-Jay

[ariastar]

I can't help but find it amusing, in a disturbing way, that anyone would want to use Rev3 as the tool to cheat Rev3 out of money.

Jay, have you considered having a statement anywhere in the ToS saying that the mods are not responsible for site policy, and, therefore, are not to be blamed/harassed for enforcing rules set by the forum owners?

[jay]

That's a good idea. I'll find some language for that.

Meanwhile, I hope everyone cuts them some slack.

[masherscf]

I think the Mods rock. All except Sammy, he's just okay. (j/k)

[samureye]

I think the Mods rock. All except Sammy, he's just okay. (j/k)
I think you're totally sort of tolerable yourself :p

[casework]

Jay, have you considered having a statement anywhere in the ToS saying that the mods are not responsible for site policy, and, therefore, are not to be blamed/harassed for enforcing rules set by the forum owners?

To me, that just seems like an easier way to ban people. No matter what the Terms of Service(who ever reads it anyway?) says, you will always have two types of people: people who are willing to intelligently and calmly talk about their issues, and those who aren't. Adding something to the Terms of Service doesn't really solve anything.

I know what it's like to be an administrator, moderator, and just general staff on websites and message boards(large sites, 10,000-125,000+ members), and as my personal, experienced opinion, I really think the best thing to do is just lay off. I'm not saying don't enforce policies or don't hold up the rules, what I'm talking about is not being so quick to get involved in these threads and arguments. If someone is irrational with their opening post or statement, chances are, that person isn't going to change their opinion. The best way to handle most issues is to delete the thread or post, contact the user and talk to them personally. I have done this countless times, and rarely do people turn around and make more threads(like in the case where mods fight back, close the thread, and another one pops right back up).

It's not easy being a mod, and I know that, but regardless of position, everyone deserves the same treatment and chance until they prove otherwise.

I've offered my assistance and experience before and I offer it again. I would love to help out this site in any way that I can. The board policies are generally fair, I just feel like the relationship that has been built between Revision 3 staff and forum moderators with the users and customers of the company is very weak.

[xibalba]

So basically don't blame the mods like I said elsewhere and others have as well. Always will be a few in the bunch that will though.

[ariastar]

To me, that just seems like an easier way to ban people. No matter what the Terms of Service(who ever reads it anyway?) says, you will always have two types of people: people who are willing to intelligently and calmly talk about their issues, and those who aren't. Adding something to the Terms of Service doesn't really solve anything.

I know what it's like to be an administrator, moderator, and just general staff on websites and message boards(large sites, 10,000-125,000+ members), and as my personal, experienced opinion, I really think the best thing to do is just lay off. I'm not saying don't enforce policies or don't hold up the rules, what I'm talking about is not being so quick to get involved in these threads and arguments. If someone is irrational with their opening post or statement, chances are, that person isn't going to change their opinion. The best way to handle most issues is to delete the thread or post, contact the user and talk to them personally. I have done this countless times, and rarely do people turn around and make more threads(like in the case where mods fight back, close the thread, and another one pops right back up).

It's not easy being a mod, and I know that, but regardless of position, everyone deserves the same treatment and chance until they prove otherwise.

I've offered my assistance and experience before and I offer it again. I would love to help out this site in any way that I can. The board policies are generally fair, I just feel like the relationship that has been built between Revision 3 staff and forum moderators with the users and customers of the company is very weak.

Adding something to the ToS DOES accomplish something. Someone cannot complain about not knowing, at least not with any validity. It's up to that person to read the ToS, and the user's choice to click having read it if actually he/she did not. Ignorance of the law is no excuse, and the same goes for terms on a forum. If a rule is not laid out, it's really not fair, nor right, to reprimand or ban someone if they couldn't have known. Abuse of mods for enforcing rules they did not write (but can only suggest - the admin decides) should be grounds for a temporary ban, followed by a permanent ban, and the user has a right to know this ahead of time.

When the terms are updated, I suggest a sticky thread informing the community of these changes for a period of two weeks. Not permanent, because we start to overlook that which we see all the time and may miss that the date changed. Also, this thread should be open so that people may ask questions.

For the record, I suggest, without knowing procedures, a first offense receiving a warning, a second a ban for one week, and the third a permanent ban, rather than immediately banning, with the exception of accounts clearly created for the purpose of spam.

Even if a thread were to be quickly deleted, or an argument allowed to go on, people will blame the mods. Blame them for not stepping in soon enough, blame them for stepping in too quickly.

CW, you never had a problem with deleting a thread, only to have someone else start up a new one not knowing where the old one went? Would it not be more effective to leave it up, but close it, with the final post in it being an explanation of why it is not allowed?

I'm not sure that most people realize that the mods are usually just the enforcer of rules, not the makers of them. This may be part of the problem.

Rev3 also has my assistance should it be desired.

[casework]

Adding something to the ToS DOES accomplish something. Someone cannot complain about not knowing, at least not with any validity. It's up to that person to read the ToS, and the user's choice to click having read it if actually he/she did not. Ignorance of the law is no excuse, and the same goes for terms on a forum. If a rule is not laid out, it's really not fair, nor right, to reprimand or ban someone if they couldn't have known. Abuse of mods for enforcing rules they did not write (but can only suggest - the admin decides) should be grounds for a temporary ban, followed by a permanent ban, and the user has a right to know this ahead of time.

When the terms are updated, I suggest a sticky thread informing the community of these changes for a period of two weeks. Not permanent, because we start to overlook that which we see all the time and may miss that the date changed. Also, this thread should be open so that people may ask questions.

For the record, I suggest, without knowing procedures, a first offense receiving a warning, a second a ban for one week, and the third a permanent ban, rather than immediately banning, with the exception of accounts clearly created for the purpose of spam.

Even if a thread were to be quickly deleted, or an argument allowed to go on, people will blame the mods. Blame them for not stepping in soon enough, blame them for stepping in too quickly.

CW, you never had a problem with deleting a thread, only to have someone else start up a new one not knowing where the old one went? Would it not be more effective to leave it up, but close it, with the final post in it being an explanation of why it is not allowed?

I'm not sure that most people realize that the mods are usually just the enforcer of rules, not the makers of them. This may be part of the problem.

Rev3 also has my assistance should it be desired.
Well first, my point is, it's common knowledge that the mods are put in place to enforce the rules set forth by those in charge of the community(owners/admins). Anyone who tries to act like a mod deletes something because he/she feels like it is just being dense. My point is that writing something down won't stop those same ignorant people from being ignorant. You can write it all over the site but it's not going to stop anything. What can help the situation, however, is how it is handled. Not to mention, if mods truly are being abused or harassed, THAT is terms for banning. It shouldn't take a written rule to protect the staff. If they are doing what's right, that's what matters. If someone has a problem with it, ultimately that is their problem. How it is handled is up to the person with the problem and the staff member, however, with much more emphasis placed on the way the staff member handles it(as there should be - staff should be model posters no matter how hard it is for them).

And of course, people have made threads after I deleted them, but generally, if you just get rid of something, talk to the creator(s), and settle it privately, things run much smoother, and it keeps others from getting involved. Keeping the thread open or on display just incites the mob mentality... people come out in droves when they have the opportunity to challenge authority, especially online.

Also, a warning system definitely helps. The one message board that I am still an administrator at, we have a warning system.

X amount of Warnings - Lose post count & avatar privileges
2X amount of Warnings - Lose signature & profile locked
3X amount of Warnings - Banned

And obviously, there are cases where people get on the fast track and are banned immediately. But I think it helps to handle each case as its own entity and not always come back at the members like they are a mob. Sometimes if you take the time to talk to people, you'll realize that they didn't have bad intentions, they just weren't able to communicate them well.

Ultimately, it is important to have the rules posted and in the TOS, I'm not disagreeing with you there. What I am saying, however, is that the people who would take the time to read the rules to make sure they don't violate them(someone like you or myself) are not the people who would be the problem in the first place.

[ariastar]

Would it not be so nice if common sense ruled the land? But no, it'd be too easy if people just acknowledged that mods don't make the rules. All I'm saying is that you take away their one semi-valid point about it not being in the rules.

How much of a deterrent is it to take away post count and to lock a profile? Did you find that to be effective? On the old board of mine the week-banning was an extremely effective deterrent to inappropriate behavior by giving offenders a taste of what it's like without being allowed to participate. Only twice in four years were members permanently banned.

[casework]

Post count matters a little more when the board has been around longer. I have like 16,000 posts on that board and I haven't really been an active poster for the past two years. And it's not even that people care about that number beside their name(although a lot do), but really I think it is a simple way to show people you are serious. The bottom line is, if that doesn't stop them, then they'll get more points/banned. It shouldn't be a game of toleration. If someone is breaking clearly defined rules, they should be dealt with. But with that said, not everyone always has malicious intent when breaking the rules, which is why it is important to not approach everyone that way and deal with every case on its own.

And it is in the rules to not post those links. Jay shouldn't have to come in and back them up. It is in the rules, people have clear access to said rules, and if they break them, they should be dealt with accordingly. At first, I understood the logic of people feeling like the mods were doing it just because they felt like it, but people know differently now. Why? Because there was communication between Jay, the mods, and the users. If ignorance of the law is no excuse, there should be no validity to the argument of "well Jay didn't say so, so I don't believe you."

[crumbles]

... so feel free to send us feedback to webmaster@revision3.com.

Thanks,

-Jay
Yea, how about getting all the complaints of the dead links fixed? How long can the "we just opened this site" excuse last?

well, I guess GMail is still in beta...

[jeffchan]

Yea, how about getting all the complaints of the dead links fixed? How long can the "we just opened this site" excuse last?

well, I guess GMail is still in beta...

Agreed.

I guess they just prefer banning people over actually focusing on the site development.

[xibalba]

**Deleted**

[crumbles]

This thread needs to be locked mods.
hahahhaa, there's a shocker.

[muled]

This thread needs to be locked mods.
Some people have made valid points. Seems likes it slowly going the way of a huge argument soon with more complaints.

Why are arguments bad? Why are complaints bad? Why are those reasons to lock a thread? This board is for discussing shows, rev3 and anything else that the people feel is relevant. If there are complaints shouldn't they be heard? Why should it be locked down?

If you don't wish to partake in the conversation then don't. But don't ask for it to be locked. That is one of my complaints about the mods. I've seen threads closed with the reason. "I see no point to this thread" I see alot of threads that I think are pointless, but that's not a reason to lock them. If the members deem it unnecessary then they will not post in it and it will fade away.

Personally I say leave this thread open. It may be negative in it's theme but as far as I can tell it's not breaking any rules.

[xibalba]

**Deleted**

[rowlodge]

get spammy, i hate spam. nice going on keeping that out of here. in the beginning we had no mods. but maybe an occasional check in by jay i think. but rev has grown and exploded, it's a real site for sure and vulnerable to outside attack.

[muled]

Yes discussing, not arguing or complaining both which brings out the trolls and flamers. If its worth complaining about complain to the admins in private. Forums are for civil social discussion unless stated otherwise by the people in charge.

Well arguing = discussing + feeling so I don't agree with you on that but the complaining, sometimes talking to a mod in private doesn't get the job done and you need to bring it to the public. I've had run ins with the mods and I talked to them in private and it didn't get resolved so I took it to the public. But that's in the past and I agree with them on the current issue of banning for posting illegal links. Just think they should of gave a warning since the rule only came out about a week before the guy got banned.

And as for trolls and flamers. I haven't seen any in here yet and even when they show up. You ignore them, they feed on aggrevating the everyday user so ignore them and they shouldn't affect the thread. But I'm active in Geekdrome and alot of the posts could probably be labeled as flame or troll because we play harsh in there.

[xibalba]

**Deleted**

[casework]

Well a heated discussion is good but once they start arguing and fighting it starts to get out of hand. I prefer people that act civil and not let what is said online get to them. Some people take things to personal. My major problem with complaints is even when brought in the public eye they still don't most of the time. Also when someone has made a complaint and it is being discussed alot of time they go to another thread and state it again which is annoying. Also I didn't say go to the mods I said admin go above the mods since most of the complaints are about the mods here.

Sorry, but you're the only one in this thread giving it any reason to be locked. At most, the two posts prior to your first post could have been deleted because they aren't totally relevant to the thread. But why close/delete the thread because two people are off topic? You just delete their posts if it is that big of a problem. AriaStar and myself were having a good discussion about how to handle some things and I'm sure we'd both be glad to have the input of other board members and even staff. Closing this thread because one or two people got off topic completely kills any intelligent discussion that we have been having that should get serious consideration from the current staff.

[xibalba]

Sorry, but you're the only one in this thread giving it any reason to be locked. At most, the two posts prior to your first post could have been deleted because they aren't totally relevant to the thread. But why close/delete the thread because two people are off topic? You just delete their posts if it is that big of a problem. AriaStar and myself were having a good discussion about how to handle some things and I'm sure we'd both be glad to have the input of other board members and even staff. Closing this thread because one or two people got off topic completely kills any intelligent discussion that we have been having that should get serious consideration from the current staff.

Sorry bout getting off topic like that. You two have made some good points just wanted it to stay on topic without all the complaints starting. I deleted the post of mine that are useless sorry again.

[ariastar]

Yea, how about getting all the complaints of the dead links fixed? How long can the "we just opened this site" excuse last?

well, I guess GMail is still in beta...

Agreed.

I guess they just prefer banning people over actually focusing on the site development.

A quick reply to these before taking this post back on track.

There's a reason many people in the industry, myself included, keep tech books nearby to reference. Developing is a good deal more in depth than most realize. It's not as easy as simply deciding you want a site to do this or that and telling it in English what to do and having it magically work. A single period/quote mark/etc. out of place may prevent everything from working, depending on what language is being used. The best way I can describe it is that there is a lot of trial and error, even if you know what you're doing. It's a tricky job, and there's a reason it pays well.

Without enforcing rules, people will get fed up and leave, and then there will be no site to work on developing. To my knowledge, mods enforce and other people work on the actual development of the site, so there is no lost development time.

[satori]

I don't blame the mods for any rev3 decision, and I don't think there has been any REV3 decision that I have had a problem with either. What I do blame the mods for though is death and taxes... BASTARDS! :D

[tokenuser]

AriaStar and myself were having a good discussion about how to handle some things and I'm sure we'd both be glad to have the input of other board members and even staff. Closing this thread because one or two people got off topic completely kills any intelligent discussion that we have been having that should get serious consideration from the current staff.It is precisely because this thread has pretty much stayed on topic, and has has intelligent discussion rather than degenerating into a flamefest that it is still open.

Nothing wrong with dissenting opinions, but arguments based on straw men never work,and only cause more harm than good.

BTW - Hands up who noticed the three porn spam links we received so far today?? I know Aria - but pretty much noone else, because they were dealt with quickly. If you could see the same view I do of the forums, you would in fact see a lot of deleted threads ... all spam. It an unfortunately consequence of using a well known forum software application. Like Windows - it attracts the hackers and script kiddies because of it popularity. Unfortunately the only Nortons Anti Virus or McAfee for these situation are active mods.

[ariastar]

Unfortunately the only Nortons Anti Virus or McAfee for these situation are active mods.

Ah, appreciate the underappreciation for our mods.

[ariastar]

Post count matters a little more when the board has been around longer. I have like 16,000 posts on that board and I haven't really been an active poster for the past two years. And it's not even that people care about that number beside their name(although a lot do), but really I think it is a simple way to show people you are serious. The bottom line is, if that doesn't stop them, then they'll get more points/banned. It shouldn't be a game of toleration. If someone is breaking clearly defined rules, they should be dealt with. But with that said, not everyone always has malicious intent when breaking the rules, which is why it is important to not approach everyone that way and deal with every case on its own.

And it is in the rules to not post those links. Jay shouldn't have to come in and back them up. It is in the rules, people have clear access to said rules, and if they break them, they should be dealt with accordingly. At first, I understood the logic of people feeling like the mods were doing it just because they felt like it, but people know differently now. Why? Because there was communication between Jay, the mods, and the users. If ignorance of the law is no excuse, there should be no validity to the argument of "well Jay didn't say so, so I don't believe you."


Do most forum programs allow for manual adjustment of post counts? I favor a temporary ban as it's more across the board. A new member with 10 posts who gets a warning won't care so much about being docked a few points and those with a substantial number should know better by then what is not allowed.

Common knowledge would indicate not to post links to "early"/member releases. This is on par with expecting the bank to have the code to its safe in the window and complaining when they tell you no. Why should they assist in their financial loss?

No, there is no validity of saying, "Jay didn't say so, so I don't believe you," when it's in the rules. Whether or not the user actually read it or not is a moot point when you click a checkbox indicating you read it. If the user didn't actually read, well, tough luck, that person is still responsible for following the rules. This is why we have so many minute laws to enforce a handful of major ones, to close the loopholes people try to find.

[phatlip12]

Well arguing = discussing + feeling so I don't agree with you on that but the complaining, sometimes talking to a mod in private doesn't get the job done and you need to bring it to the public. I've had run ins with the mods and I talked to them in private and it didn't get resolved so I took it to the public.

Thats not acceptable though. Why? We can't have people making threads complaining whenever a moderator takes an action. It takes away from the boards and the real discussion. If a moderator EVER does something you don't agree with then send them a PM expressing you thoughts on the matter. If you still feel as though you are getting no where then send a PM to an administrator. The administrators are the ultimate authority on the site and are the ones we the mods answer to.

[xibalba]

Do most forum programs allow for manual adjustment of post counts?

All forums programs I have used allows to edit post count but you have to be the admin. A temp ban gets the point across better but one warning would be nice for new comers. If they do it again then banned. For people that have been around for awhile and know better a temp ban on first time.

[casework]

Do most forum programs allow for manual adjustment of post counts? I favor a temporary ban as it's more across the board. A new member with 10 posts who gets a warning won't care so much about being docked a few points and those with a substantial number should know better by then what is not allowed.



And that all comes back to one of the first points I made: it needs to be handled on a case by case basis. There isn't a handbook for what to do to people when they break ____ rule. But what should be done is to have a fair system of rules in place and evaluate misconduct based on the action, the user, and in accordance with the rules. If someone with 200 posts on here, a solid contributor, breaks a rule, they shouldn't necessarily receive the same punishment as someone with 25 posts, that are all off topic and not contributing to the board. Obviously if someone has 10 posts, that won't work as punishment. What should you do? Depends on what they did and how they did it. If it's serious enough, then they should just be banned. If it was a minor offense, talk to them, find out if they are a "good" person or not, and if they do it again, they're out of here.

Also it is important to make sure all of the staff is working together and they know who has been given one, two, or too many chances.

[ariastar]

All forums programs I have used allows to edit post count but you have to be the admin. A temp ban gets the point across better but one warning would be nice for new comers. If they do it again then banned. For people that have been around for awhile and know better a temp ban on first time.

If different rules are applied to different people, you will have users crying discrimination against their higher status. Most people will, at some point, do something against rules without meaning to. When my dad died and I saw it, I broke about 5 rules in one post on a board I was on, but the behavior wasn't in line with my typical top-poster behavior, so a temp ban wouldn't have been appropriate, but a warning was. There's got to be the leeway that a veteran poster will occassionally still slip up, and usually it's minor or due to extreme circumstances. And a new poster may slip up from still learning the rules.

Also to take into consideration is that, as members post more, a board will become more lax in what it allows. For instance, swearing isn't allowed on this board, yet it happens ALL THE DAMNED TIME. So when a new user comes along and sees certain rules not being enforced, what makes that user think that any will be?

No, the same rules need to apply to all. And, unless a situation is really exceptionally extreme, a banning, temp or permanent, is rarely warranted. If a rule is laid out that breaking it even once will lead to banning, such as post a link to a member release and you're banned, that's one thing. But the occassional minor slip-up shouldn't lead to someone being banned when typical behavior shows the person to be a respectable member of the community.

[ariastar]

And that all comes back to one of the first points I made: it needs to be handled on a case by case basis. There isn't a handbook for what to do to people when they break ____ rule. But what should be done is to have a fair system of rules in place and evaluate misconduct based on the action, the user, and in accordance with the rules. If someone with 200 posts on here, a solid contributor, breaks a rule, they shouldn't necessarily receive the same punishment as someone with 25 posts, that are all off topic and not contributing to the board. Obviously if someone has 10 posts, that won't work as punishment. What should you do? Depends on what they did and how they did it. If it's serious enough, then they should just be banned. If it was a minor offense, talk to them, find out if they are a "good" person or not, and if they do it again, they're out of here.

Also it is important to make sure all of the staff is working together and they know who has been given one, two, or too many chances.


A warning to a new member or an old member will have a little weight. A repeat offense earning a temp. banning will either be a major deterrent for a veteran member or possibly make a new member decide to leave. But if a new member is already at that level, chances are that person is a troublemaker we wouldn't want here anyway.

Of course some discretion would need to come into play. An occassional small offense by a long-time member may be allowable, and a warning 300 posts ago shouldn't lead to a temp. banning now, especially if the person is an otherwise respectable, contributing member.

I don't know how you guys keep in touch with who issues what warning, but, without being able to see your organization and under the impression that you have a hidden-from-view mods-only subforum, do you have a section where you can start a thread when a member is issued a warning, and in that thread all other warnings, actions, etc., take place on that particular member? Kind of like a file system that all the mods can access and put info into. If a member isn't causing trouble, then obviously there will be no file. Likewise, you could also have a file to discuss contributions by stand-out members to serve as an acknowledgement of the positive to counterbalance the negative happenings you deal with.

[xibalba]

I was mostly talking about the posting an illegal link or spam. Slipping up happens all the time. As was said should be taken case by case.

[tokenuser]

I don't know how you guys keep in touch with who issues what warning, but, without being able to see your organization and under the impression that you have a hidden-from-view mods-only subforum, do you have a section where you can start a thread when a member is issued a warning, and in that thread all other warnings, actions, etc., take place on that particular member? We have a number of sticky threads in the uber secret forums listing who was banned, who was warned, and who is on a "watch" list. I don't want the last part to stir up paranoia, but if a user is acting on the edge or being disruptive, it might not lead to an immediate ban, or even a warning until a pattern to the behaviour emerges.

Now - a quick response on post counts ... YOU ARE NOT YOUR POST COUNT. That sounds kinda silly, but someone might be a spamming mofo who has to add their "LMFAO" or "ditto" to a thread - it does add anything to the discussion, but they have just added to their postcount. Similarly, there are people, knowledgable and experienced people, that post infrequently, or are new, and get dismissed immediately because they are "Junior Members". So, post counts do not define who you are. The mods do not have access to reset post counts, or change custom titles - that needs an admin.

[ariastar]

We have a number of sticky threads in the uber secret forums listing who was banned, who was warned, and who is on a "watch" list. I don't want the last part to stir up paranoia, but if a user is acting on the edge or being disruptive, it might not lead to an immediate ban, or even a warning until a pattern to the behaviour emerges.

Would it not be somewhat more effective to warn someone as a pattern is emerging to prevent it from becoming habit?

[jeffchan]

We have a number of sticky threads in the uber secret forums listing who was banned, who was warned, and who is on a "watch" list. I don't want the last part to stir up paranoia, but if a user is acting on the edge or being disruptive, it might not lead to an immediate ban, or even a warning until a pattern to the behaviour emerges.

It's funny to know that you could be banned even without a warning.
Does that mean I'm on the "watch" list just because I stand up for my opinion to the moderators? (This is a whatif statement, if you didn't get it)

[sevver]

There is no conspiracy, there are no hidden messages, nobody is watching you, everything is going to be ok man, really, it will.

What Token means is that there are users who could potentially be problems and that we are all aware of them. He did not say that we scheme and plan in the background only so that we can launch our premeditated attack without any prememtive warning. If someone is a problem they do get warned via a PM, and if that does not work then something has to be done.

Really, get off of it, the moderators are not the enemy.

[crumbles]

A quick reply to these before taking this post back on track.

There's a reason many people in the industry, myself included, keep tech books nearby to reference.Well, just so you know sweets, most of the errors that I have pointed out would take a grand total of 3 minutes to fix.

It's just business as usual at REV3. That's what is frustrating everyone.

Crumbles: "Hey, you guys should fix those .conf files so we can download them."
Jay & REV3 team: *no response*
Crumbles: "Hey, you guys need to fix that broken .gif file on the forum. It looks really bad..."
Jay & REV3 team: *no response*
Bert: "Go to the site and check out the PSD files so you can play with them!"
*world goes to look for non-existent files*
Crumbles: "So, uh, where are those PSD files?"
Jay & REV3 team: *no response*
Crumbles: "OK, so apparently no one at REV3 wants to fix anything? Why do they keep getting us excited about stuff that never happens?"
*knowgod deletes my post and all others talking bad about REV3*
</end of day>

Oh, and let's not forget that diggnation is late a lot, with no explanation given at all to the members. Especially to the ones who donate to them.

[klitzy]

It's funny to know that you could be banned even without a warning.
Does that mean I'm on the "watch" list just because I stand up for my opinion to the moderators? (This is a whatif statement, if you didn't get it)

Hey Jeff...Chill out for now. Wait for their mistake...Then pounce. They havent done anything and you are rather expecting them to do something wrong. I have said before Im done with the mod thing and like sevver said...They are not the enemy but rather our brothers in revision3 arms.

God speed..

Always wanted to say that...

[ariastar]

It's funny to know that you could be banned even without a warning.
Does that mean I'm on the "watch" list just because I stand up for my opinion to the moderators? (This is a whatif statement, if you didn't get it)

No one said people are necessarily banned without warning. Spambots can be squished immediately. We don't need them around. But rather than have a mess where no one knows what's going on, they've got a system in place where they can keep track of who has said or done what, warned whom, noticed problems, etc.. It's a job, and they've got to have a way or organizing. I don't see them just banning you outright unless you did something really stupid. If you're concerned that you might be on their watch list, why not ask?

Also, it's one thing to respectfully stand up for your well-founded opinions and quite another to be a jerk about it. As long as you are respectful and use some tact, I don't think anyone will have a problem with you calmly expressing yourself.

[klitzy]

they've got a system in place where they can keep track of who has said or done what, warned whom, noticed problems, etc.. It's a job, and they've got to have a way or organizing.

Hmm....Sounds like Stalin's type of job

[sugarsickness]

A quick reply to these before taking this post back on track.

There's a reason many people in the industry, myself included, keep tech books nearby to reference. Developing is a good deal more in depth than most realize. It's not as easy as simply deciding you want a site to do this or that and telling it in English what to do and having it magically work. A single period/quote mark/etc. out of place may prevent everything from working, depending on what language is being used. The best way I can describe it is that there is a lot of trial and error, even if you know what you're doing. It's a tricky job, and there's a reason it pays well.What a lame post. There are a lot of people here with at the very least a competent knowledge of computers so you don't have to respond in such a "Go sit at the children's table" manner (intentional or not). Further more, as Crumbles mentioned, a lot of the most infuriating problems with dead links are with the asterisk conf files and pixel perfect PSD files. They have the ability to attach show notes to download pages with the CMS, obviously, they just don't like to keep them up to date so if someone watches an older episode they are pretty ****ed.

If you ask me there are bigger problems with this site than Moderators taking some heat every now and then.

[satori]

Really, get off of it, the moderators are not the enemy.

Yes, clearly the enemy is Gingivitis!

http://www.colgate.co.uk/Colgate/UK/OralCare/OralHealthCenter/CommonProblems/GumDisease/gumdisease2.jpg

[ariastar]

Sugar, if you think you can do a better job of running a growing business and getting a forum up and running, go ahead and try. I'm sure that the least of their worries is this forum.

[sugarsickness]

Sugar, if you think you can do a better job of running a growing business and getting a forum up and running, go ahead and try. I'm sure that the least of their worries is this forum.Actually I said the least of their problems are the forums. So ok.

I dont know about the 'inner workings' on their business nor do I claim to. But is it really that hard to at least make an anouncement or something so people know that they at least are aware of the broken show notes or why paying members are getting their early release sometimes days late?

[ariastar]

Actually I said the least of their problems are the forums. So ok.

I dont know about the 'inner workings' on their business nor do I claim to. But is it really that hard to at least make an anouncement or something so people know that they at least are aware of the broken show notes or why paying members are getting their early release sometimes days late?

It adds up to the mods taking the heat for it.

I'm going to walk away from this thread now because, at least for the time being, I don't think I can contribute anything more that is worth the time to type.

[sugarsickness]

It adds up to the mods taking the heat for it.

I'm going to walk away from this thread now because, at least for the time being, I don't think I can contribute anything more that is worth the time to type.Actually I was really hoping you could inform us why having broken links and/or poor show notes and episode supplements is a good thing for their 'growing business.'

And I was under the impression that the mods were being attacked primarily because of bannings and such.

[samureye]

The most we can do is bring these things to the attention to those who can actually do something. When we see people continually complaining about things we already know about in ways which are less than productive that's when threads get deleted.

[jay]

It is NOT business as usual at Revision3. We have to take all the issues we have a business and prioritize them, particularly on the technology front. Until a couple of weeks ago, we borrowed time from Ron (who is full time at Digg) to help us keep the thing running. Now we've got a CTO who is busy hiring as fast as he can so we can fix the big things first, the little things next.

We're not ignoring these. They were reported a hundred times, and we'll get to them as soon as possible.

I'm sorry, but fixing a broken link on the forums is going to fall behind making sure Diggnation gets posted on time, etc... We have a lot of catch-up work to do.

Well, just so you know sweets, most of the errors that I have pointed out would take a grand total of 3 minutes to fix.

It's just business as usual at REV3. That's what is frustrating everyone.

Crumbles: "Hey, you guys should fix those .conf files so we can download them."
Jay & REV3 team: *no response*
Crumbles: "Hey, you guys need to fix that broken .gif file on the forum. It looks really bad..."
Jay & REV3 team: *no response*
Bert: "Go to the site and check out the PSD files so you can play with them!"
*world goes to look for non-existent files*
Crumbles: "So, uh, where are those PSD files?"
Jay & REV3 team: *no response*
Crumbles: "OK, so apparently no one at REV3 wants to fix anything? Why do they keep getting us excited about stuff that never happens?"
*knowgod deletes my post and all others talking bad about REV3*
</end of day>

Oh, and let's not forget that diggnation is late a lot, with no explanation given at all to the members. Especially to the ones who donate to them.

[crumbles]

I'm sorry, but fixing a broken link on the forums is going to fall behind making sure Diggnation gets posted on time, etc... We have a lot of catch-up work to do.Well, I agree that something as simple as that does seem to be pretty lame when you put it in perspective.

I guess the only thing that frustrates me is when I get excited about something that REV3 says to check out, only to have it never happen.

the .conf files (systm)
the PSD files (pixel perfect)
diggnation (being late)

Anyway, it doesn't matter. I've changed my mind on the whole thing, and apologize for attacking you, instead of saying how happy I am that REV3 is around.

I guess one reason I get so frustrated, is because REV3 ideas get me excited, and I just get let down about it when it doesn't happen. So, if I look at it from that point of view, you guys do have one thing right. Getting peoples attention with unique and fun ideas. I mean come on, there has never been anything on this planet that I have ever read or seen on the internet, that actually made me tackle the job of setting up an asterisk box with my SunRocket service.

So, I'll just try to relax, and wait for everything to fall in place.

[casework]

You know, it'd be kind of nice to get a response from the staff, whether it be one on one outside the site, or in this thread. Maybe you don't want to talk to me, but I think I've shown I have experience, and if you don't believe me I can show you. But I'm really trying to talk through some things and help out you guys and the site and it's like I'm just being ignored. People who come on here and post "omg the mods are teh suck" are getting more attention than I am, and I'm actually trying to contribute to the site.

[klitzy]

You know, it'd be kind of nice to get a response from the staff, whether it be one on one outside the site, or in this thread. Maybe you don't want to talk to me, but I think I've shown I have experience, and if you don't believe me I can show you. But I'm really trying to talk through some things and help out you guys and the site and it's like I'm just being ignored. People who come on here and post "omg the mods are teh suck" are getting more attention than I am, and I'm actually trying to contribute to the site.

....If they dont want your help then drop it and ***** about it but don't beg

[casework]

....If they dont want your help then drop it and ***** about it but don't beg

What?

I'm not begging for anything. And I'm sorry, obviously you're unaware, but mature adults don't "*****" about stuff. We talk about it, and all I'm asking for is a response.

And if no one else is going to say it, I will. Please, your little act of going from a thorn in the staff's side into someone who sticks up for them, when they are all capable of sticking up for themselves, isn't impressing anyone.

[tokenuser]

You know, it'd be kind of nice to get a response from the staff, whether it be one on one outside the site, or in this thread. Maybe you don't want to talk to me, but I think I've shown I have experience, and if you don't believe me I can show you. But I'm really trying to talk through some things and help out you guys and the site and it's like I'm just being ignored. People who come on here and post "omg the mods are teh suck" are getting more attention than I am, and I'm actually trying to contribute to the site.Sorry, what kind of response do you actually want? Jay posted back on the 17th with a response I thought you'd have been happy with.

[casework]

Sorry, what kind of response do you actually want? Jay posted back on the 17th with a response I thought you'd have been happy with.

I believe Jay was responding to crumbles' post. My original posts were about the forums and not the website.

[sevver]

I have to say that I don't really know what you want. Nor do I care to be quite honest. The website may have problems, but it is a small part of a growing company, and is being addressed. As of now it is probably more behind the scenes planning and considering where the next step should be, but seeing as how people are getting paid to work for the company, and transitions are currently taking place, then once that happens, the site will become a priority.
As it is, you are calling attention to yourself and making yourself look like a stalker boy. Enjoy the site, enjoy the shows, go outside and live a little.

[klitzy]

We talk about it, and all I'm asking for is a response.

And if no one else is going to say it, I will. Please, your little act of going from a thorn in the staff's side into someone who sticks up for them, when they are all capable of sticking up for themselves, isn't impressing anyone.

First, talking is overrating

Second, Im bipolar...And a mature adult :"sticking a thorn" in a teens side isn't impressing anyone either

[casework]

I have to say that I don't really know what you want. Nor do I care to be quite honest. The website may have problems, but it is a small part of a growing company, and is being addressed. As of now it is probably more behind the scenes planning and considering where the next step should be, but seeing as how people are getting paid to work for the company, and transitions are currently taking place, then once that happens, the site will become a priority.
As it is, you are calling attention to yourself and making yourself look like a stalker boy. Enjoy the site, enjoy the shows, go outside and live a little.

If you don't want my help or to talk, that's fine. But I'm not some "stalker boy" as you so eloquently put it. I have worked for and still work for websites and forums a lot bigger than Revision 3(read: 1 million+ visitors, 125,000+ members). I'm also a Broadcasting and Communication major, so I know what it is like to be producing the content that Revision 3 is doing, and maintaining the website and relations with the public. All I was doing was trying to offer some advice and experience as to how to tackle some of your problems.

I'm not sure why everyone is acting like I'm being disruptive about the issue... for the first 2-3 pages of this thread AriaStar and myself were having a very civil discussion about some issues and policies of the board, as was noted by some staff, but never responded to.

Sorry for trying to help.

[sevver]

I think you are going about it wrong is all. You really need to be communicating via PM to the Administration. You should know that you will not get recognition on the boards like what you want. All this is doing is fanning flames, sorry if I seemed brash, I have a tendancy to do that sometimes, it is just that I am not crazy about this thread, and this is something that needs to be handled differently.

[casework]

I think you are going about it wrong is all. You really need to be communicating via PM to the Administration. You should know that you will not get recognition on the boards like what you want. All this is doing is fanning flames, sorry if I seemed brash, I have a tendancy to do that sometimes, it is just that I am not crazy about this thread, and this is something that needs to be handled differently.

I have talked to staff offline. In particular, samureye and myself talked a lot throughout the launch of the new site. This thread was made by Jay, so I responded. If I thought I'd have any more success by PMing Jay or talking more to samureye offline, I would. I'm not trying to fix the board through this thread, but it was opened for discussion by Jay(that's what forums are for, right?), so I responded. If I was wrong to respond to Jay in a thread he created, what was the point of him creating this thread?

[klitzy]

I have talked to staff offline. In particular, samureye and myself talked a lot throughout the launch of the new site. This thread was made by Jay, so I responded. If I thought I'd have any more success by PMing Jay or talking more to samureye offline, I would. I'm not trying to fix the board through this thread, but it was opened for discussion by Jay(that's what forums are for, right?), so I responded. If I was wrong to respond to Jay in a thread he created, what was the point of him creating this thread?

Wait....What is wrong with "the board"? Someone create a "Problems with the board" thread and a "Great things about the board thread"

[sevver]

:rolleyes: Well I suppose.... :o

[casework]

Wait....What is wrong with "the board"? Someone create a "Problems with the board" thread and a "Great things about the board thread"

Um, first... quick reply still doesn't work; nothing in the fixes and request thread has been properly addressed.

Second, the issues with mods being "harassed" over the no outside links rule.

Third, the lack of communication between the staff and the members.

Don't act like you weren't one of the people who kept posting in the "I want that thread" about any of these issues or constantly fighting with people about the Diggnation links.

No board or website is perfect, and all I've done from day one, in private and in public, is offer my assistance anytime it is needed.

[klitzy]

Um, first... quick reply still doesn't work; nothing in the fixes and request thread has been properly addressed.

-Haha seriously...What the hell is up with that? Ill give you that


Second, the issues with mods being "harassed" over the no outside links rule.


-And how do you propose fixing that? Or how would you have?


Third, the lack of communication between the staff and the members.


-Uh...Who cares


Don't act like you weren't one of the people who kept posting in the "I want that thread" about any of these issues or constantly fighting with people about the Diggnation links.

-Yeah I was...And now the other soul of Klitzy took over


No board or website is perfect, and all I've done from day one, in private and in public, is offer my assistance anytime it is needed.

-And if its wanted...Im sure they will ask

[tokenuser]

Um, first... quick reply still doesn't work; nothing in the fixes and request thread has been properly addressed.

Second, the issues with mods being "harassed" over the no outside links rule.

Third, the lack of communication between the staff and the members.

Don't act like you weren't one of the people who kept posting in the "I want that thread" about any of these issues or constantly fighting with people about the Diggnation links.

No board or website is perfect, and all I've done from day one, in private and in public, is offer my assistance anytime it is needed.All valid points ... but once again, I'll point you to what Jay said ...

It is NOT business as usual at Revision3. We have to take all the issues we have a business and prioritize them, particularly on the technology front. Until a couple of weeks ago, we borrowed time from Ron (who is full time at Digg) to help us keep the thing running. Now we've got a CTO who is busy hiring as fast as he can so we can fix the big things first, the little things next.

We're not ignoring these. They were reported a hundred times, and we'll get to them as soon as possible.The key point about broken links is that the site was maintained by Ron who is an employee over at Digg. Yes, there is a new CTO who is hiring.

Want to move to San Fran?? Why not apply for a job ...

The list from the "needs" threads are going to be used as a punchlist for the new webmaster to address. I looked over a lot of the items on that list - and many of them are literally 10-15 minute (or less) fixes, but they need to be done, and WILL be done once a full time webmaster is hired.

Until then, by all means, keep posting suggestions - but also remember that while I am sure the experience you have from previous sites, and your incomplete Business Comms degree is great, the mods are generally equally well qualified in a variety of areas - both content, business, and communications.

And if you want to become a mod - don't ask to be one ... it is something you get invited to do, not a job you apply for. Intelligent discourse is one way of being noticed - stick to that tact and you will be fine.

[klitzy]

the mods are generally equally well qualified in a variety of areas - both content, business, and communications.

Yes...Gilmore, I must say he is a guru at all of those areas that you mentioned.

[tokenuser]

Yes...Gilmore, I must say he is a guru at all of those areas that you mentioned.There are always exceptions that prove the rule :rolleyes:

[casework]

Want to move to San Fran?? Why not apply for a job ...


And if you want to become a mod - don't ask to be one ... it is something you get invited to do, not a job you apply for. Intelligent discourse is one way of being noticed - stick to that tact and you will be fine.

I would love to move to San Francisco if I could have a job waiting for me... unfortunately for me that's not realistic.

And just to be clear, I'm not trying to lobby to become a mod. But at the same time, talking one on one about issues or in public is just something I'd enjoy doing. That's just part of my personality that has landed me with some stellar jobs and positions on sites when I was as young as 15 years old.

In fact, I'm not sure I'd want to be a mod on this site. ;) But talking to someone in a key position as ways to improve and work on some of the kinks, I would love to do that.

[klitzy]

I would love to move to San Francisco if I could have a job waiting for me... unfortunately for me that's not realistic.

And just to be clear, I'm not trying to lobby to become a mod. But at the same time, talking one on one about issues or in public is just something I'd enjoy doing. That's just part of my personality that has landed me with some stellar jobs and positions on sites when I was as young as 15 years old.

Totally stellar man...Wanna go hit some waves later?

Damnit Im an ass hole...Im sorry casework. Hug it out?

*Klitzy walks toward casework with his arms open*

[casework]

Totally stellar man...Wanna go hit some waves later?

Damnit Im an ass hole...Im sorry casework. Hug it out?

*Klitzy walks toward casework with his arms open*

Writing and coding for a site when you're 16 that gets millions of views is what I'd classify as "stellar". ;)

[klitzy]

Writing and coding for a site when you're 16 that gets millions of views is what I'd classify as "stellar". ;)

*Klitzy hides in the corner because he feels inferior to casework but then realizes casework could be a 46 year old obese pedophile who is trying to make himself feel better by bragging in a forum*

*Klitzy smiles again*

[casework]

Who me? :rolleyes:

Uhhh, see ya later guys. :o

[samureye]

I take some responsibility for the "I WANT THAT" thread because I know things are not working, I know what it is like and how frustrating it is but the fact of the matter is that these problems are beyond us and we need someone else to do this stuff for us. It will happen soon enough.

As for asking to be a moderator, there is nothing wrong with asking about it. While it's true you should be asked, there is always a chance of being overlooked. I applied to be a moderator and look at me. Don't mean to sound like an infomercial or anything though.

All in all, we're human, except for TokenUser who is a hyper-intelligent bot that gets us great deals on watches and fried butter. For the rest of us, we tend to make mistakes.

[sevver]

*Klitzy hides in the corner because he feels inferior to casework but then realizes casework could be a 46 year old obese pedophile who is trying to make himself feel better by bragging in a forum*

*Klitzy smiles again*

http://bestsmileys.com/paranoid/1.gifhttp://bestsmileys.com/paranoid/2.gif