'08 General Election

[Bohemian_Beauty]

So, it looks like the Democrats finally have a nominee! Congrats to them.

Political threads seem to be taboo around here, but I don't think they should be, as long as they remain civil. I'd like to hear from my fellow Rev3'ers.

Who would you guys like to see as a VP pick for both main party candidates?

Who would you like to see really come out from the shadows as a third party candidate?

What issues do you think should be the most talked about in the debates? What issues are most important to you?





I think it would be smart for McCain to pick a female as a VP, but I have no idea who. I don't care for Condi AT ALL. I would prefer to see Edwards or Bloomberg as Obama's VP.

I would really like to see Paul and Kucinich lead a third party ticket. Mind-blowing, imo. Both extremely intelligent and clever (at least for a presidential candidate).

Our falling economy, our failed healthcare system, and war. The two most important to me is this horrible healthcare America has. There is no reason for people to be without it. I also believe we shouldn't be invading countries unless it's people ask for our help. I would like to hear all candidates in depth strategies for improving the lives of the Iraqi people, and bringing our troops home.





Don't be shy, people. Politics are important, and should be discussed. :)

[tokenuser]

Nothing wrong with politcial threads. They are not taboo ... UNTIL they start becoming personal attacks between tree hugging liberal hippies and gun toting evangelical right wing nutjobs.

Posts that are personal attacks between forum members will be deleted.

Call it censorship, call it the jackboot of the oppression if you like ... but we will not let this become a flamefest.

BTW - Title fixed, it is '08, not 08' :)

[tokenuser]

Note: I can't vote. Despite being a US Resident, I am not a US citizen.

VP for Obama? I would still like to see Clinton as VP. As much as I like Edwards, he is too similar to Obama to add anything to the ticket. Bloomberg is an interesting choice, with an obvious financial strength, but isn't ready for the role yet.

VP for McCain? No idea - he was the strongest in a weak field. Lieberman wouldn't be out of the question, and might attract more Democrat votes. Huckabee? Maybe ... for McCain it has to be a strong choice, because with his medical history and age, the VP may well be running the country soon.

Third party? Ron Paul? God I hope not. All he will do is draw legitimate votes away from the candidates who actually have a chance of winning. He wouldn't win an election for himself, but could destroy either Obama or McCain's vote counts.

Its pretty clear I lean liberal, and am in favour of social policy and higher taxes to pay for it, yet I am fiscally conservative. Obama is a great orator, but I couldn't tell you what he stands for except "change". Even UHC is a fuzzy area. He will do well with domestic policy, which should strengthen the local economy, and boost wall street, but I feel he is weak on international policy (most Dems are). He will need a strong running mate who can complement an challenge him rather than being a yes (wo)man.

[comhcinc]

edwards brings something very big to the table as vp. he is white.

clinton is too devesive. that are alot of people that will not vote for a clinton but who might vote for another democrat. really i am close to being one of them. if the debates between mccain and obama are very close who their vp choice is will become important to me.

running mate for mccain? hmmm well he has talked alot with romney laterly, and old mitt might not be a bad choice.

[Bohemian_Beauty]

I like Edwards UHC plan, I like Bloombergs talk about revamping the electoral process. I like both. While he would likely win by a fair amount if he took Clinton has his VP, she's pretty much not the CHANGE he's all about, so meh.

[autodas]

Barr/Root would get the most votes. After hearing some Barr interviews and having him try and repeal the things he has done makes me vote for him.

[Bohemian_Beauty]

Anybody think Obama NEEDS Hillary to win the general election?

[comhcinc]

Anybody think Obama NEEDS Hillary to win the general election?
no. in fact i think that would be a good way to lose the election.

[gimpbully]

I do have to say, this time around I'd like to see a lack of strong 3rd party candidate. I've never felt this way before but I think it's time to focus hard on getting the neocons out. It never seems 3rd party candidates remove votes from the republicans, it always seems to work against the democrats.

Yes, I don't agree with *everything* obama stands for, but I think he's as close to a mainstream candidate that shares my views as any since the last kennedy presidential bid.

[Bohemian_Beauty]

I do have to say, this time around I'd like to see a lack of strong 3rd party candidate. I've never felt this way before but I think it's time to focus hard on getting the neocons out. It never seems 3rd party candidates remove votes from the republicans, it always seems to work against the democrats.

Yes, I don't agree with *everything* obama stands for, but I think he's as close to a mainstream candidate that shares my views as any since the last kennedy presidential bid.

I'd have to agree with you. I really like Obama. I'm not even a Democrat. He gives me hope, something I haven't had for a long time.

I don't want him to pick Hillary as his running mate. Ugh.. Scary thought.

[ageexchick]

Anybody think Obama NEEDS Hillary to win the general election?

I would prefer to forget that Hillary ran at all. My awful opinion of her aside, I do have to agree, though, that Obama would be making a mistake joining with her as a running mate. My feeling is that she is too much of a 'bull dog' type, but I guess that is what it takes to get to this level. I don't think that she could be happy as VP. Apparently she wasn't happy being the first lady to Bill. I don't think she wants to be the runner-up.

[xibalba]

http://constitutionclub.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/ralph_nader_2008.jpg
:D

[comhcinc]

http://constitutionclub.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/ralph_nader_2008.jpg
:D
i have always been a nader fan. he is an option for me.

[kronos6948]

I don't know what to make of Obama's statements on Iran. It seems like he's following suit with our current administration. I don't want to be dragged into a war with Iran.

Here's the article:

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSWAT00959220080604

[comhcinc]

I don't know what to make of Obama's statements on Iran. It seems like he's following suit with our current administration. I don't want to be dragged into a war with Iran.

Here's the article:

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSWAT00959220080604
he is playing to the jewish lobby. he never said he would go to war with iran. big differance.

[Bohemian_Beauty]

he is playing to the jewish lobby. he never said he would go to war with iran. big differance.

Nah. He's made it pretty clear that we wants talks between the US and Iran.

[kronos6948]

he is playing to the jewish lobby. he never said he would go to war with iran. big differance.

True, but that doesn't rule out the possibility.

I don't understand where the big threat comes from. We've let China have nuclear weapons, and they're a bigger threat than Iran is.

Now, while this may be pandering to the Jewish lobby, it still is following what has been established during the Bush administration.

Ahmenidajad did want to have talks with Bush a couple of years ago, and was denied the chance. All that did was escalate hostilities. Granted, he's said some outrageous BS about the holocaust, but denying talks does nothing to improve relations.

I just hate the whole idea of Obama/McCain being 2 sides of the same coin, which is normally what we get during an election anyways.

[rabidbadger]

from random twitter dude.

"So here's the deal. America needs a Obama/Clinton, McCain/Rice race in November. It'll blow the biggot's minds"

[Bohemian_Beauty]

I hate both the women. Fuck that noise.

[masherscf]

from random twitter dude.

"So here's the deal. America needs a Obama/Clinton, McCain/Rice race in November. It'll blow the biggot's minds"

If you can work Lieberman in there somewhere, I think you'll have a winner.

[Bohemian_Beauty]

If you can work Lieberman in there somewhere, I think you'll have a winner.

Ewww. That man needs to be.... Shipped to Antartica. That's the nicest thing that comes to mind.

[rabidbadger]

agree. leiberman. to think I voted for that useless turncoat as vp

[acidburn]

For a while I was convinced McCain would choose Mitt Romney as a VP, but not I'm not so sure after with what happened the Latter Day Saints Mormons sect out in Texas.

[comhcinc]

For a while I was convinced McCain would choose Mitt Romney as a VP, but not I'm not so sure after with what happened the Latter Day Saints Mormons sect out in Texas.
you mean the one were the courts ruled they were doing nothing wrong? most people don't make the connection with that sect and the mormon church

[acidburn]

you mean the one were the courts ruled they were doing nothing wrong? most people don't make the connection with that sect and the mormon church

Exactly, most people won't be able to make the distinction so I think he's out as a possibility.

[xibalba]

..............

[acidburn]

And there goes the thread................seriously uncalled for.

[Bohemian_Beauty]

Did I miss something? What was uncalled for?

[xibalba]

A picture of Hillary that I have posted before and noone complained then figured noone would now.

[comhcinc]

A picture of Hillary that I have posted before and noone complained then figured noone would now.
the one from that wild night she spent at your house?

[Bohemian_Beauty]

Wow. And someone had yo cry about it? That's kinda pathetic. If people are going to piss and moan about poking fun at the candidates, they don't need to visit this thread. Don't ruin it for the rest of us, for fuck sake.



Anyway. Back to politics. Any ideas for exit strategies? Any suggestions for UHC? What about fixing the economy?

[xibalba]

I prefer not to offend too much if one person thinks it is wrong there is bound to be some others that will make a federal case about it.

I am not sure who I am behind..Not overly impressed with any of the candidates. Since the person I would have voted for is out now. Unless he is chosen as VP dunno what I want to do.

[rabidbadger]

as far as I am concerned, the useless deadly needless war in Iraq is priority. the only candidate who hated it as much as I did was Obama, and the only one who has said so since day one. Ending the fake war will end the economy issue, which will end the gas issue, which will end the ... well, you get my drift.

get cheneys neocon cabal out of it, and things will get better for us plebes. but it will take a looooonggg time.

[acidburn]

A picture of Hillary that I have posted before and noone complained then figured noone would now.

Only reason I said something was because I thought the picture would send a good thread down a bad path. Nothing personal. :)

[ryudo]

For a while I was convinced McCain would choose Mitt Romney as a VP, but not I'm not so sure after with what happened the Latter Day Saints Mormons sect out in Texas.

Those were not mormons.

They are FLDS and the real LDS frowns on those idiots.
Romney is LDS.

=========================
As for the topic...ugh no lieberman or Hillary please I beg of thee and Mcain said it himself of why I can't stand him..Bush 3rd term.

Don't like Obama either but maybe the lesser of the evils.

[rabidbadger]

religion aside, romney got issues that won't appeal to hillary moms, you know, like strapping a puppy to the roof of his car for an international drive. and his war-age sons not going to war cause thier patriotic "cause" was to get daddy elected.

[comhcinc]

Those were not mormons.

They are FLDS

don't they deliver flowers?

[masherscf]

don't they deliver flowers?

Flowers... and Blasphemy!

[ryudo]

don't they deliver flowers?
Oh man I have such a horrible nasty joke for that but I would get banned.

[masherscf]

Oh man I have such a horrible nasty joke for that but I would get banned.

Is the punchline "...read the card"? ... It's very old...

[ryudo]

Is the punchline "...read the card"? ... It's very old...

Nope.

less said the better.

I shall say no more.



Anyway sorry BB for going off topic we should get back on topic now.

[gimpbully]

like strapping a puppy to the roof of his car for an international drive.


wait... what?

[ageexchick]

religion aside, romney got issues that won't appeal to hillary moms, you know, like strapping a puppy to the roof of his car for an international drive. and his war-age sons not going to war cause thier patriotic "cause" was to get daddy elected.

Is he getting his jollies out of this or something?
Also, while I do agree with what you say about his sons, there are lots of people these days not going... Why criticize them?

[Bohemian_Beauty]

Edwards again rules out running as a VP...

I'm a sad panda.

Who is left that will really help Obama change the nation?

[autodas]

The hobo down town.

[tokenuser]

The hobo down town.Bush has already had two terms in office.

[njshadow]

http://www.4president.org/image/2008/mccain08.gif

[tokenuser]

http://www.bananablue.com.au/images/product/9310174002535_1.jpg

[phatlip12]

My vote:

http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/830/picture4he7.jpg

[phatlip12]

http://www.4president.org/image/2008/mccain08.gif

I have a lot of respect for McCain with everything he went through as a POW.

However, as president he pretty much scares the shit out of me.

*He supports the war and has long term plans of staying in Iraq. Honestly, 100 years?

*He admitted to not knowing much about economics or our economy. Kind of an...important thing for the president to know- especially now.

*Doesn't support net neutrality

*Said he would carry on the same unwarranted wiretaps the bush administration did.

[masherscf]

My vote:

http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/830/picture4he7.jpg

Dude, I inhaled...

[kahunablair]

Sad thing is, 8 years ago, I might have voted for McCain.
It's amazing how much those years have changed him. He went from being the "maverick" to being a guy that tows the party line. It's really sad actually.

[masherscf]

Sad thing is, 8 years ago, I might have voted for McCain.
It's amazing how much those years have changed him. He went from being the "maverick" to being a guy that tows the party line. It's really sad actually.

I don't think the years changed him. I think losing to Bush changed him. He knows who he has to suck to get elected and he's moistening up his lips for fall.

[Bohemian_Beauty]

I have a lot of respect for McCain with everything he went through as a POW.

However, as president he pretty much scares the shit out of me.

*He supports the war and has long term plans of staying in Iraq. Honestly, 100 years?

*He admitted to not knowing much about economics or our economy. Kind of an...important thing for the president to know- especially now.

*Doesn't support net neutrality

*Said he would carry on the same unwarranted wiretaps the bush administration did.

Yea. I would say I don't understand why anybody would vote for him, but I forgot which country I was living in. -_-

[kahunablair]

I don't think the years changed him. I think losing to Bush changed him. He knows who he has to suck to get elected and he's moistening up his lips for fall.
You're absolutely right. I feel the same way, but I didn't make it clear. Sorry about the confusion.


Dude, I inhaled...

"Of course I inhaled! That was the point!" - Barak Obama

[Bohemian_Beauty]

"Of course I inhaled! That was the point!" - Barak Obama

I also love that he never tried to hide the fact that he used to be an Atheist.

[phatlip12]

Yea. I would say I don't understand why anybody would vote for him, but I forgot which country I was living in. -_-

Well, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I suppose some people think all of this is either good or not that big of a deal. But for the sake of the future of our country lets just hope the opposite view of this remains the majority. ;)

[comhcinc]

Well, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I suppose some people think all of this is either good or not that big of a deal. But for the sake of the future of our country lets just hope the opposite view of this remains the majority. ;)
lol i think a lot of it is just people who have been to not vote democrat.

[Bohemian_Beauty]

Well, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I suppose some people think all of this is either good or not that big of a deal. But for the sake of the future of our country lets just hope the opposite view of this remains the majority. ;)

I wish I had as much faith in our people as you do. :(

[stumpy]

For a while I was convinced McCain would choose Mitt Romney as a VP, but not I'm not so sure after with what happened the Latter Day Saints Mormons sect out in Texas.


That church has nothing to do with the Latter Day Saints... just because the name is sorta the same...

[phatlip12]

Dumb ass - That church has nothing to do with the Latter Day Saints... just because the name is sorta the same...

Wow, totally not necessary. Calm down, it's only the internet.

[xibalba]

The fact the name is similar and there are a lot of dumb Americans. There will be people who think the two are related somehow.

[comhcinc]

That church has nothing to do with the Latter Day Saints... just because the name is sorta the same...

haha mormons are stupid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsXzHLiHTOU

[stumpy]

Yeah - which is why I edited my post. Just pisses me off when people think the two churches are the same... they aren't.

Anyway - once again for me, this election is choosing the lesser of two evils...

[stumpy]

haha mormons are stupid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsXzHLiHTOU

I guess I must be stupid...

[comhcinc]

I guess I must be stupid...
if the shoe fits.

[stumpy]

Ouch...

Anyway, back to the topic...

[Bohemian_Beauty]

Hey guys. I'd appreciate it if we kept the personal insults to minimum/non-existant. I'd like this thread to keep going and not get closed, pretty please? :)

[Bohemian_Beauty]

And for the record. Out of all the door-to-door religious salesmen, Mormons are the most polite, friendly and understanding of them all. At least in my humble opinion.

[xibalba]

We got door to door Catholics around here.

[Bohemian_Beauty]

The Jehovah Witness/Watchtower people were stalking me for about six months. Came at least once a week and knew my name. I never gave it to them. They would wait in front of my house if I wasn't home. Very creepy. Finally after a very nasty phonecall, and them pretending they didn't get it, they came to my house, and I told her if she didn't leave my property, I would use force, and her brittle old body couldn't take it. They haven't come back since, and I'm putting a gate in front of my entryway to keep em out just in case.We got door to door Catholics around here.

[tokenuser]

The Jehovah Witness/Watchtower people were stalking me for about six months. Came at least once a week and knew my name. I never gave it to them. They would wait in front of my house if I wasn't home. Very creepy. Finally after a very nasty phonecall, and them pretending they didn't get it, they came to my house, and I told her if she didn't leave my property, I would use force, and her brittle old body couldn't take it. They haven't come back since, and I'm putting a gate in front of my entryway to keep em out just in case.My brother in law - who has the look of an outlaw biker to him, invites them in, draws on the depths of his Catholic School upbringing, and starts to recite The Creed.

Personally, I have never met a mormon I didn't like.

[rabidbadger]

wait... what?

Romney's Cruel Canine Vacation (http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1638065,00.html)

[blazes816]

Mormons are so friendly. I think it's part of their dogmatic law.

[masherscf]

Mormons are so friendly. I think it's part of their dogmatic law.

They're very friendly. But, if you believes that everyone on the planet, save yourself and only those you believe exactly what you do are going to hell, you'd be friendly to.

In undergraduate school my best friend was a devout Mormon. Although, he was much more promiscuously than me and he was constantly asking for my help with his studies, he let it slip one day that he felt he was superior to me and that I had no chance for success or happiness because I didn't believe as he.

That's a tough thing to hear from your best friend and I have never forgiven him. How a faith can take otherwise gentle and wonderful people and put such monstrous thoughts in their head is unforgivable.

Any system of beliefs that teaches that you are intrinsically better than another is just evil. There is no coming back from that.

[stumpy]

They're very friendly. But, if you believes that everyone on the planet, save yourself and only those you believe exactly what you do are going to hell, you'd be friendly to.


That's not exactly right... Have you ever taken the Missionary discussions before?

http://mormon.org/mormonorg/eng/basic-beliefs/the-restoration-of-truth/god-is-your-loving-heavenly-father

Great website with tons of info on our doctrine

[secret-steve-crumbles]

My problem with this election is it isn't another one of these: "Fuck, I'll just tough it out for 4 years with higher taxes, etc." is if a Dem makes it, America will be fucked forever. That saddens me. It will never go back to the way it is now.

I can see it in 20 years when UHC is totally failing like everything else the government does and they are trying to go back to privatized health care.

Random Citizen: "Wait, you mean I'M going to have to pay for my own health care now? I'm scared! Please no government!"

You Liberals better hope that Bush is alive in 20-30 years from now.

[skyz]

Well, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I suppose some people think all of this is either good or not that big of a deal. But for the sake of the future of our country lets just hope the opposite view of this remains the majority. ;)

a country is formed and progresses by way of the attitudes of its people

the mountains and valleys rivers and lakes tend to remain pretty much the same

[skyz]

Any system of beliefs that teaches that you are intrinsically better than another is just evil. There is no coming back from that.

how wonderful to have an opiate that serves you so well and to hell with everyone else :eek:

[secret-steve-crumbles]

Ba hahaha, that made me laugh
http://www.bananablue.com.au/images/product/9310174002535_1.jpg

[comhcinc]

My problem with this election is it isn't another one of these: "Fuck, I'll just tough it out for 4 years with higher taxes, etc." is if a Dem makes it, America will be fucked forever. That saddens me. It will never go back to the way it is now.

I can see it in 20 years when UHC is totally failing like everything else the government does and they are trying to go back to privatized health care.

Random Citizen: "Wait, you mean I'M going to have to pay for my own health care now? I'm scared! Please no government!"

You Liberals better hope that Bush is alive in 20-30 years from now.

why do conservatives hate america?

[ageexchick]

Everyone here is entitled to their opinions. We should be glad for the ability to be able to freely have them. About religions, you know, whatever. Even an atheist follows a
'religion' - the belief of the absence of belief in deities.
When I did have the Watchtower ladies coming to my house, I treated them with respect and listened to what they had to say. They figured out that I really had no intention of joining in their beliefs, and as long as I didn't tell them to get lost, they seemed alright with it.
Oh yeah, there are those really pushy door-to-door religion sales people. Those are the people that made realize that I really do not care what anyone believes in. I have my own set of beliefs, which I don't really attribute to any particular religion, and i think they are morally sound. As long as I have that, I feel no need to change. But there is the saying that one bad apple ruins the bunch. If you've had a bad experience with one, it might make you generalize.

Ok, I'm off my soap box.
Really, I don't care what anyone does. Just don't push it on me. I might not agree with them, but whatever. It's their life to live.

[masherscf]

why do conservatives hate america?

Conservatives love America. It's a certain 50% of Americans they could live without...

[ageexchick]

My problem with this election is it isn't another one of these: "Fuck, I'll just tough it out for 4 years with higher taxes, etc." is if a Dem makes it, America will be fucked forever. That saddens me. It will never go back to the way it is now.

I can see it in 20 years when UHC is totally failing like everything else the government does and they are trying to go back to privatized health care.

Random Citizen: "Wait, you mean I'M going to have to pay for my own health care now? I'm scared! Please no government!"

You Liberals better hope that Bush is alive in 20-30 years from now.

Whoa, now I thought I was on a soap box earlier. As I said, you're entitled to your opinion, but don't tell me that I'm ruining this country b/c of my ideals.
I may say just the opposite of the venom you've so eloquently put into words.

One day, I hope it gets to the point that America will never go back to the way it is now. I mean, hell, who really wants cheap gas and travel again, anyway? $.98 was just too cheap anyway... Oh yeah! And all those people who are bravely over in Iraq? I do support our troops, God willing (or whomever willing), they all come home, but there is no way that I'll support the war. Talk about those damn Liberals trying to save "our boys overseas." We're just terrible, aren't we?

I think most people have been able to keep a pretty neutral stance on all of this, no matter their side.
Deal like an adult. Don't give blame. Take responsibility. Together we stand. Whether it's your fault or not, it's still *our* country.

[secret-steve-crumbles]

why do conservatives hate america?I'm not the one trying to change it from what it's supposed to be.

I mean, hell, who really wants cheap gas and travel again, anyway? $.98 was just too cheap anyway... Oh yeah!Blame both Clinton and Bush for deciding to not pursue drilling for oil here in the US. Blame every single tree hugger who refuses to let us remove our dependence on foreign oil. Mr. "Change" isn't going to fix any of that.

And all those people who are bravely over in Iraq? I do support our troops, God willing (or whomever willing), they all come home, but there is no way that I'll support the war.You should read this article (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121253706422142819.html). It was a well written intelligent article about the war.

[acidburn]

Yeah - which is why I edited my post. Just pisses me off when people think the two churches are the same... they aren't.



I understand your frustration. But you misinterpreted my post. I understand the difference between the 2 churches. I was suggesting that perhaps other people out there don't.

No harm done though, okay. :)

[ageexchick]

Blame both Clinton and Bush for deciding to not pursue drilling for oil here in the US. Blame every single tree hugger who refuses to let us remove our dependence on foreign oil. Mr. "Change" isn't going to fix any of that.

Well, apparently the Republicans have something to do with your distaste for the current state of affairs in our country. So why are you blaming solely the liberal people? And, I believe tree huggers would like us off oil altogether. I have not said that I think Obama will fix everything, but at this point, we're so far into the s**t of it all, that one president will not be able to fix it.
We need change somewhere, I agree with you on that, but I don't think that any one person can do it right now. Nor do I believe that any one group of people is to blame.
WE are the people who put them into office and in control of what happens. Maybe we are the ones who really have to fix it.

[Bohemian_Beauty]

WE are the people who put them into office and in control of what happens. Maybe we are the ones who really have to fix it.
That's exactly how I feel. It's the mentality of the mob that gets to me with this country.

[tokenuser]

Ba hahaha, that made me laughThe tag line for their ads are great as well ...

"Oh McCain ... you've done it again."

Yeah - Australian freeze brand ... vegies and pizza :)

[comhcinc]

I'm not the one trying to change it from what it's supposed to be.

whatever man. you hate america. you hate the goverment. you hate liberals. you refuse to serve you country in uniform. you refuse to admit that our government has ever done anything right or good. you say the our government messes every thing up which isn't true.

you and your kind hate america. why don't you leave?

[tokenuser]

you and your kind hate america. why don't you leave?He has the belt buckle.

http://www.crwflags.com/art/mil/misc/cv5011.jpg

Makes him a patriot.

[secret-steve-crumbles]

Well, apparently the Republicans have something to do with your distaste for the current state of affairs in our country. So why are you blaming solely the liberal people?The current pubs in office are acting like Liberals.

And, I believe tree huggers would like us off oil altogether. I have not said that I think Obama will fix everything, but at this point, we're so far into the s**t of it all, that one president will not be able to fix it. We need change somewhere, I agree with you on that, but I don't think that any one person can do it right now. Nor do I believe that any one group of people is to blame.
WE are the people who put them into office and in control of what happens. Maybe we are the ones who really have to fix it.Agreed.

whatever man. you hate america. you hate the goverment. you hate liberals. you refuse to serve you country in uniform. you refuse to admit that our government has ever done anything right or good. you say the our government messes every thing up which isn't true.

you and your kind hate america. why don't you leave?Ha, that's awesome. True Liberal spat. I haven't said half of the shit you claim I have. For some fucked reason Liberals have to read something 100 times over before they get it, but, as I've said numerous times before, I was headed into the ARMY at one point in my life. Unfortunately, I couldn't serve.

You feel the government should run everything. I don't. You're lazy and want the government to take care of you. I'm not. I work very hard to accomplish what I've done. You want the government to punish me for working hard and give you my money. That's not what America is about. Why don't you leave. As I've said before, I'm sure China is tempting for you. They're already set up the way you want!

[ryudo]

I know Crumbles real name is Jeff and lives in Vermont that or he has been cloned many times over and has an army of clones.

[comhcinc]

Ha, that's awesome. True Liberal spat. I haven't said half of the shit you claim I have. For some fucked reason Liberals have to read something 100 times over before they get it, but, as I've said numerous times before, I was headed into the ARMY at one point in my life. Unfortunately, I couldn't serve.

You feel the government should run everything. I don't. You're lazy and want the government to take care of you. I'm not. I work very hard to accomplish what I've done. You want the government to punish me for working hard and give you my money. That's not what America is about. Why don't you leave. As I've said before, I'm sure China is tempting for you. They're already set up the way you want!

i've served my country. what have you ever done for yours?

[ryudo]

He has the belt buckle.

http://www.crwflags.com/art/mil/misc/cv5011.jpg

Makes him a patriot.

That is the toddler size.
Where is the full footlong size?

[skyz]

.
Deal like an adult. Don't give blame. Take responsibility. Together we stand. Whether it's your fault or not, it's still *our* country.

our country has a lot going for it

i think we should get it together together and maximize everything good we have

:)

and minimize the negative

[quix]

I lurk a lot, but this current discussion was too good for me to abstain.

The current pubs in office are acting like Liberals.

No, they're acting like corrupt politicians. Neither party has a monopoly on corruption.

If they were acting like Liberals as you accuse, every man, woman, and child would have health care. If they were acting like liberals, every child would be guaranteed a good education. Seniors would know that they could retire comfortably even if their employers took away their pension. We wouldn't be at war in Iraq.

The so-called "conservatives" in government are acting like neo-conservatives, not liberals and that should anger both liberals and true conservatives because it doesn't help the average American and it expands government in all the wrong areas.

You feel the government should run everything. I don't. You're lazy and want the government to take care of you. I'm not. I work very hard to accomplish what I've done. You want the government to punish me for working hard and give you my money. That's not what America is about. Why don't you leave. As I've said before, I'm sure China is tempting for you. They're already set up the way you want!

Not all Liberals think the government should run everything. Communists do, but that's a specific political ideology which is on the fringes of liberalism(from an American perspective.) It's like saying that all conservatives believe that the President should be akin to a monarch when in fact many conservatives do in fact believe in checks and balances.

[phatlip12]

Ha, that's awesome. True Liberal spat. I haven't said half of the shit you claim I have.

I value my time too much to go digging through all of your posts but yes- those are pretty much all things you've said. Some of them were more suggestive and others we're almost word by word but yes Crumbles- thats what you sound like.

Sounds pretty nutty when you're on the other side huh?

[Bohemian_Beauty]

Not all Liberals think the government should run everything. Communists do, but that's a specific political ideology which is on the fringes of liberalism(from an American perspective.) It's like saying that all conservatives believe that the President should be akin to a monarch when in fact many conservatives do in fact believe in checks and balances.

Socialists think the government should run everything. The end goal for Communism is to be without a centralized government and where state is ruled by it's people.

[masherscf]

Socialists think the government should run everything. The end goal for Communism is to be without a centralized government and where state is ruled by it's people.

The end goal of communism was social equity without respect to merit.

Communism requires a managed ecomony. It has nothing to do with the how the state is politically organized.

However, since communism centralizes economic power, it is most compatible with autocracy. I can't imagine a communist state without a strong central authority because it just wouldn't function otherwise.

[Bohemian_Beauty]

The end goal of communism was social equity without respect to merit.

Communism requires a managed ecomony. It has nothing to do with the how the state is politically organized.

However, since communism centralizes economic power, it is most compatible with autocracy. I can't imagine a communist state without a strong central authority because it just wouldn't function otherwise.

Communism is a socioeconomic structure that promotes the establishment of a classless, stateless society based on common ownership of the means of production.[1] It is usually considered to be a branch of socialism, a broad group of social and political ideologies, which draws on the various political and intellectual movements with origins in the work of theorists of the Industrial Revolution and the French Revolution[2], although socialist historians say they are older. Communism attempts to offer an alternative to the problems believed to be inherent with capitalist economies and the legacy of imperialism and nationalism. Communism states that the only way to solve these problems would be for the working class, or proletariat, to replace the wealthy bourgeoisie, which is currently the ruling class, in order to establish a peaceful, free society, without classes, or government.
What the definition of real Communism, is this.

[masherscf]

I never defined it. I just said what it does and what it requires.

[Bohemian_Beauty]

I never defined it. I just said what it does and what it requires.

Oki. :)

I was just referring to what you said right here. :)

[secret-steve-crumbles]

i've served my country. what have you ever done for yours?Fight against people like you who try to take others freedom of choice away. I serve my country the proper way. You just try to fuck it over.

No, they're acting like corrupt politicians. Neither party has a monopoly on corruption.

If they were acting like Liberals as you accuse, every man, woman, and child would have health care. If they were acting like liberals, every child would be guaranteed a good education.Not everything they do has been 100% Liberal. Most everything though. From invasion of privacy, increase of government, massive amounts of spending.

I do agree with you that they all appear to be corrupt bastards though.

Sounds pretty nutty when you're on the other side huh?Yes, but for different reasons. As I've said before, you and I (and apparently now com) have different opinions on what it is to hate this country. You guys think that distribution of wealth is what America is about, I don't. Don't get involved in these conversations phatty. All you do is ignore 90% of what has been said and start talking about something else. Talk to me in 10 years when you hit the real world.

[comhcinc]

Fight against people like you who try to take others freedom of choice away. I serve my country the proper way. You just try to fuck it over.


really you "Fight against people". how do you do that exactly? what have you ever done for this country? you can answer that because you have done nothing. all you have done is leech off the hard work of others who are willing to share their good fortune with you. you have not been in the military for what ever reason. you do not like paying taxes yet you enjoy the same benefits we all do. our government never does anything right yet you and your family can sleep soundly at night knowing we won't be invaded.

did you go to public school? how about a public college? do you eat meat that has been approve by the usda? hell do you drive on roads?

and i will ask you what have you done for this country?

[quix]

Socialists think the government should run everything. The end goal for Communism is to be without a centralized government and where state is ruled by it's people.

D'oh. You're right. I should have said Socialists.

Not everything they do has been 100% Liberal. Most everything though. From invasion of privacy, increase of government, massive amounts of spending.

I'd argue that while some liberal governments have violated privacy that isn't inherent within a liberal government.

I do agree with you that they all appear to be corrupt bastards though.

At least there's something we can agree on. :p

Yes, but for different reasons. As I've said before, you and I (and apparently now com) have different opinions on what it is to hate this country. You guys think that distribution of wealth is what America is about, I don't. Don't get involved in these conversations phatty. All you do is ignore 90% of what has been said and start talking about something else. Talk to me in 10 years when you hit the real world.

I can only speak for myself, but I don't think the economic system and the distribution of wealth is what defines America. I think what America is about(at least structurally) is that it is a government of, by, and for the people which is based on the ideal that everyone is created equal. We've never fully achieved it but that should be what we strive for.

The difference is that you think the people are best served by a government that leaves them alone while I think they are best served by a government which provides them with the basics such as good healthcare and a good education as well as providing for the commons and infrastructure. The only way to do all of that is if everyone pays their fair share, which is all that taxation is.

[secret-steve-crumbles]

really you "Fight against people". how do you do that exactly? what have you ever done for this country? you can answer that because you have done nothing. all you have done is leech off the hard work of others who are willing to share their good fortune with you.Wow, I really feel bad for people like you. Not only do you vote for people to take money away from me and give it to you, but at the same time you accuse me of leeching off of people, that's awesome.

you have not been in the military for what ever reason. you do not like paying taxes yet you enjoy the same benefits we all do. our government never does anything right yet you and your family can sleep soundly at night knowing we won't be invaded.I have already listed the things the government is for. It's not for what you are wanting to use it for. I also have no problem paying taxes. Just not to give the money to you.

did you go to government school?Yes, unfortunately. I will not let my son suffer through that.

do you eat meat that has been approve by the usda? hell do you drive on roads?Dude, you're just babling random bullshit that makes no sense. First off, I would never use the USDA as your source of awesome government work. Second, I'm assuming you're sweet road argument is based off of your already flawed argument that I don't want to pay taxes. Jesus, no wonder Liberals vote for what they do. They can barely comprehend what is going on around them.

and i will ask you what have you done for this country?Get involved and stop Liberals from taking over, telling me what I can and can't do with my life and money.

The difference is that you think the people are best served by a government that leaves them alone while I think they are best served by a government which provides them with the basics such as good healthcare and a good education as well as providing for the commons and infrastructure. The only way to do all of that is if everyone pays their fair share, which is all that taxation is.Right, I agree. You basically defined the difference between Liberals and Conservatives.

[comhcinc]

ha see you just can't answer that. i bet you don't even support the troops.

[secret-steve-crumbles]

ha see you just can't answer that.Funny, I was just thinking the same thing with the PM I sent you. You hanging out with Phatty tonight? Just because you don't like my answer doesn't mean I didn't answer you. Support the troops? Yea, you're right, I've always said I don't support them. You got me. Any other magical arguments you have? Or is this the best you have, making up bullshit as usual.

[comhcinc]

still have not answered it because you can't. as for your pm don't do that again. anything you want to say to me you can say in public.Do you consider it OK to steal from a company that has a massive amount of money because you feel like they won't notice the loss?
the answer is no it isn't right and you know that i feel this way

[Bohemian_Beauty]

Please don't get this thread closed. Count to ten, inhale.....exhale.....

[secret-steve-crumbles]

i've served my country. what have you ever done for yours?
Fight against people like you who try to take others freedom of choice away. I serve my country the proper way. You just try to fuck it over.
and i will ask you what have you done for this country?

Get involved and stop Liberals from taking over, telling me what I can and can't do with my life and money.
still have not answered it because you can't.Product of a government school too, eh? I'm sorry.
the answer is no it isn't right and you know that i feel this wayGood. Then quit voting to steal my money.

[comhcinc]

still can't answer and until you can i am done with you.

[secret-steve-crumbles]

still can't answer and until you can i am done with you.Wow, and there's the IQ of a Liberal.

[quix]

Right, I agree. You basically defined the difference between Liberals and Conservatives.

Exactly, and it's not that one group loves America and one group hates America. Most Liberals love America as do most Conservatives.

[Bohemian_Beauty]

Take it to PM's please.

[secret-steve-crumbles]

Exactly, and it's not that one group loves America and one group hates America. Most Liberals love America as do most Conservatives.Your description in itself is why conservatives feel that Liberals don't approve of America. This country was founded on the very freedoms that Liberal government infringements want to remove. Under your plan, I no longer have the choice to not pay for health care. I am forced to pay for it no matter what. I lose that choice. That freedom. I work hard to get ahead in life. Liberals want to punish those people for taking advantage of a country set up to allow individuals to succeed. There is no sense of individual responsibility with Liberal ideals. It's more of a "let the government tell us what to do" type thing.

Shut the fuck up!Are you seriously still talking?

[ryudo]

Are you seriously still talking?

Wow.
....

[Bohemian_Beauty]

Your description in itself is why conservatives feel that Liberals don't approve of America. This country was founded on the very freedoms that Liberal government infringements want to remove. Under your plan, I no longer have the choice to not pay for health care. I am forced to pay for it no matter what. I lose that choice. That freedom. I work hard to get ahead in life. Liberals want to punish those people for taking advantage of a country set up to allow individuals to succeed. There is no sense of individual responsibility with Liberal ideals. It's more of a "let the government tell us what to do" type thing.

Are you seriously still talking?
You bet your ass. Do you think you can stop bickering, and take it to PM's or grow up a little, please?

I've asked a few times to keep it civil.

[comhcinc]

interesting story (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/06/vp-poll.html)

hmmm anyone know anything about sarah palin?

[Bohemian_Beauty]

interesting story (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/06/vp-poll.html)

hmmm anyone know anything about sarah palin?

She'll be warmer in Washington? o.0

[secret-steve-crumbles]

You bet your ass. Do you think you can stop bickering, and take it to PM's or grow up a little, please?

I've asked a few times to keep it civil.Um, can you show me what in the conversation between Quix and I has your panties in a bunch? This is a forum where different opinions clash. That's the whole point. If you can't handle it, close your browser and go do something else. You're posts of:

"Oh my gosh! Stop the bickering!"

are totally pointless and do nothing. Ironically, you're bitching about the most civilized conversation in this entire thread.

[Bohemian_Beauty]

Um, can you show me what in the conversation between Quix and I has your panties in a bunch? This is a forum where different opinions clash. That's the whole point. If you can't handle it, close your browser and go do something else. You're posts of:

"Oh my gosh! Stop the bickering!"

are totally pointless and do nothing. Ironically, you're bitching about the most civilized conversation in this entire thread.

I never said anything about Quix. I guess if I want a political thread to be intelligent and civil, I shouldn't post it where you can find it. Christ. You have to ruin every thread with your hate-filled speeches.

[comhcinc]

She'll be warmer in Washington? o.0

i was just reading up on her (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin) she would be a good choice. female and young. and a pot head:rolleyes:

[Bohemian_Beauty]

i was just reading up on her (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin) she would be a good choice. female and young. and a pot head:rolleyes:

And pretty cute for a politician. Although Kucinich's wife would have been the hottest female in politics.

[secret-steve-crumbles]

I never said anything about Quix. I guess if I want a political thread to be intelligent and civil, I shouldn't post it where you can find it. Christ. You have to ruin every thread with your hate-filled speeches.Totally. My last post was filled with hate.

[phatlip12]

Yes, but for different reasons. As I've said before, you and I (and apparently now com) have different opinions on what it is to hate this country. You guys think that distribution of wealth is what America is about, I don't. Don't get involved in these conversations phatty. All you do is ignore 90% of what has been said and start talking about something else. Talk to me in 10 years when you hit the real world.

Nice try but there are people on these boards far older and more educated then both of us that think your "all liberals hate America" theory is nuts. Nice try though.

It sure must suck always getting put in your place by a 20 year old "kid"

:)

[comhcinc]

Hillary 'to do anything' to help Obama win: aide (http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/storypage.aspx?StoryId=120943)

[secret-steve-crumbles]

Nice try but there are people on these boards far older and more educated then both of us that think your "all liberals hate America" theory is nuts. Nice try though.

It sure must suck always getting put in your place by a 20 year old "kid"

:)
Not nearly as much as it must suck to think you've put someone in your place. :D

Again, talk to me after you get a paycheck in the real world (if you actually try to work hard and succeed.) Let me know how you feel when an 18 year old votes to take money away from your family because he thinks he knows what's best for the world. I'm not saying there aren't others on this board that know more than I do. That has nothing to do with my comment directed at you. But nice try though. Seriously.

[quix]

Your description in itself is why conservatives feel that Liberals don't approve of America. This country was founded on the very freedoms that Liberal government infringements want to remove.

That's certainly one interpretation. though I don't agree that the revolution was to fight liberal government(as you might expect. :p) It was to fight against a large government certainly, but a large government which wasn't governed by the people and wasn't constrained by the defense of civil liberties that would exist within an ideal liberal society. There's also the fact that Thomas Jefferson and James Madison founded the Democratic-Republican party. Liberal ideas have been present in America in one form or another since the beginning.

Under your plan, I no longer have the choice to not pay for health care. I am forced to pay for it no matter what. I lose that choice. That freedom. I work hard to get ahead in life. Liberals want to punish those people for taking advantage of a country set up to allow individuals to succeed. There is no sense of individual responsibility with Liberal ideals. It's more of a "let the government tell us what to do" type thing.

I have to cede that you would have to pay for health care, given that it would be supported through taxes. However, the majority of people without health care don't have it because they can't afford it rather than because they don't want it. Liberals are fine with letting people succeed, it's just that we're also concerned with what happens to those who are unable to. That doesn't mean we don't believe in individual responsibility, just that liberals think even the poorest people deserve to have their basic needs met. It may result in someone who doesn't want health care(though I can't understand why you wouldn't want it) having to pay, but it would prevent the current situation where many who want health care can't afford it.

Hillary 'to do anything' to help Obama win: aide (http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/storypage.aspx?StoryId=120943)

I had heard about that earlier and it will definitely go a long way towards reunifying the Democratic party which is good.

[secret-steve-crumbles]

That's certainly one interpretation. though I don't agree that the revolution was to fight liberal government(as you might expect. :p) It was to fight against a large government certainly, but a large government which wasn't governed by the people and wasn't constrained by the defense of civil liberties that would exist within an ideal liberal society. There's also the fact that Thomas Jefferson and James Madison founded the Democratic-Republican party. Liberal ideas have been present in America in one form or another since the beginning.I agree. Democrats started off with very different values. Democrats back then are not the same as what they are today. When we founded this country we were leaving old George's rule. Individualism is the last thing people care about now. They want the rule back.

I have to cede that you would have to pay for health care, given that it would be supported through taxes. However, the majority of people without health care don't have it because they can't afford it rather than because they don't want it.What the stats don't show you is that most people could afford it if they wanted to. For example, I have a friend who doesn't have any health insurance because he can't "afford" it. He can afford his cell phone payments, TV, internet, and brand new PC that he just bought though. However, if he were asked, it'd be: "No, I can't afford it."

Also, I'm not saying there isn't anything wrong with our health care system. There are several things that could be done to make it affordable. Remove bullshit lawsuits, illegals jumping the hospital bills, etc.

Liberals are fine with letting people succeed, it's just that we're also concerned with what happens to those who are unable to.You think conservatives aren't? There is nothing wrong with charities, churches, or the evil rich people donating money to help out citizens. America is the most generous countries out there.

That doesn't mean we don't believe in individual responsibility, just that liberals think even the poorest people deserve to have their basic needs met.I agree too. However, again, this is where our ideals differ. You feel that the government should take from me to help them out. I feel the government should uphold their rights to allow them to better themselves. One preaches individual responsibility. Something Liberals don't want.

It may result in someone who doesn't want health care(though I can't understand why you wouldn't want it)Because I should have the choice to have my own medical savings account. Wealthy people don't need to pay into health care. They set aside their own money for when they need it. Did you use my car today? Should the government force you to pay my car payment this month? But I don't understand, why wouldn't you want to use a car?

...but it would prevent the current situation where many who want health care can't afford it.Surveys have revealed that American citizens would rather pay their cell phone bill than use that money to buy insurance. They said that they will just wait to get health insurance until they get a job where it is included in a benefits package. In other words, they make a conscious decision not to get health insurance, then fully expect the taxpayers to step up and fill in the financial gaps if anything serious happens.

[xibalba]

I still wonder where someone got the idea I am socialist..Lets see I am not a Dem or Liberial.. I like guns and think people should have them.. Universal Healthcare? I could care less about it.

Just because I dislike humans makes me a socialist?

[comhcinc]

I still wonder where someone got the idea I am socialist..Lets see I am not a Dem or Liberial.. I like guns and think people should have them.. Universal Healthcare? I could care less about it.

Just because I dislike humans makes me a socialist?
lol you sound like a republican to me.

[secret-steve-crumbles]

I still wonder where someone got the idea I am socialist..Take quiz (http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html). Post your picture result.

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz-score/draw.php?p=9&e=9

[xibalba]

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz-score/draw.php?p=9&e=9

[secret-steve-crumbles]

*same result as me* Woah.

[xibalba]

I think I took the test before when it was posted in another thread and got around the same score.

[ryudo]

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/3148/drawphpmt1.png

[gimpbully]

edit: no point in arguing

[ageexchick]

You know, the more I look back on things, the more similarities I see between this thread and "Public Health Care; Why or Why Not?" And, as I recall, it ended in the same "liberals are evil" type of way.

How about we all just calm down and go back to the original conversation about the '08 "General" Election. The conversation was going well until someone threw a monkey wrench into it.

Crumbles, my general opinion of you is that you like to argue your opinions for the sake of arguing, rather than looking into the conversation as a whole and taking in others opinions as possibilities. Spoken as a "true" American. "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I'll fight to the death for your right to say it."
With that said, Crumbles, you have changed my whole aspect on this topic. UHC will never work, Dems and Reps are evil, and, really, it is the Liberals who are killing us.
"People tend to blame others instead of looking why they are in their situation. Like all these young women having kids that we're all paying for because they shouldn't have had them in the first place. Stuff like that REALLY pisses me off." I now understand that it really is my own fault that I have not had health insurance in over 3 years. Really? Who am I to think that I deserve to get health care when I get sick just because I pay taxes and into SS?

You know, you're right. Why couldn't I see this earlier? I apologize for not living in the light. I now realize that I was just a sheep in a large herd, following a hypnotic sheep herder.

No, really. I totally agree with you.


Now, can we please get back to a civil conversation about politics?
Thanks.

[skyz]

Spoken as a "true" American. "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I'll fight to the death for your right to say it."


that quote is attributed to voltaire french 1694 - 1778 ;)

[Bohemian_Beauty]

Clinton is giving her last speech today as a Democratic candidate. Anybody else going to watch it?

[rabidbadger]

yeah, I'll be watching.

[masherscf]

Label me.

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz-score/draw.php?p=6&e=3

[rabidbadger]

me: why am I not surprised?

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz-score/draw.php?p=9&e=2

[Bohemian_Beauty]

I don't need a retarded survey to take to tell me what am.

Anyway. I actually felt like Hillary was somewhat likable today. She seemed to be more herself today, not the disgusting politician that's made me sick for the past 6 months.

If you saw her speech, what are your thoughts?

[rabidbadger]

yep, I agree, very positive, gracious and more like the Hillary I know as my senator, not the fake one she became during the campaign. The fake thing is what sunk gore, and to some extent Kerry. Obama has seemed sincere all along, and people have learned to see through fake, it seems.

[Bohemian_Beauty]

yep, I agree, very positive, gracious and more like the Hillary I know as my senator, not the fake one she became during the campaign.

That is exactly what I told my husband just now.

[autodas]

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz-score/draw.php?p=10&e=10

[spark-rain-fire]

She did seem slightly more human in her speech, However it's too bad that too many Hillary supporters simply will not support Obama for whatever reason. But instead, support someone like McCain who is polar opposites from Hillary... This election isn't about policies, and democracy. It's about being a Female, a War-Hero, and a Black man.. It puts a churn in my stomach, and a horrible taste in my mouth..

-dann

[rabidbadger]

that will change in time. what just ended was a huge long primary battle with all the emotion that brings. as the two man election heats up, and the media focuses on their differences, a whole new battle will begin, and folks from both parties will take sides. You really think hillary supporters will elect an anti abortion candidate out of spite, after all this time fighting for it over the decades? no way.

[spark-rain-fire]

that will change in time. what just ended was a huge long primary battle with all the emotion that brings. as the two man election heats up, and the media focuses on their differences, a whole new battle will begin, and folks from both parties will take sides. You really think hillary supporters will elect an anti abortion candidate out of spite, after all this time fighting for it over the decades? no way.


Sadly, I think you really underestimate the power of undereducated people in large groups.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080226001807AAXze0B

http://raford.wordpress.com/2008/03/04/25-of-hillary-supporters-would-vote-for-mccain-if-obama-is-nominee/


http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/06/angry-clinton-s.html



I really hope you're right, though..


Thoughts?

_danN

[xibalba]

Didn't they poll her supporters on CNN and 30% said they would vote for McCain and 15% or something would stay home.

[masherscf]

A little tangent here. An irony that I observe is that people, no matter what they believe, dismiss opposing viewpoints as based on ignorance or stupidity. It never fails.

I believe that people disagree based on core beliefs and differing experiences that have nothing to do with how intellectual they are.

[rabidbadger]

(warning, I don't wanna turn this into an aborton thread, just mentioning one of the many issues that will come up in the election cycle)

McCain facts.
He voted against requiring health care plans to cover birth control (3/22/03).
He voted against comprehensive, medically accurate sex education (7/25/06).
He voted against international family planning funding (3/14/96).
He voted against funding to prevent teen and unintended pregnancies (3/17/05).
He voted against public education for emergency contraception (3/17/05).
And he voted against restoring Medicaid funding that could be used for family planning for low-income women (3/17/05).

Now take into concideration that despite the record number of primary voters overall it's the most passionate that vote in primaries for the most part. Her total voters so far are a fraction of those voting in november, a tiny fraction of those might actually keep their word and vote McCain, and/or not vote. Not to mention a similar small percentage of replicants...er republicans who hate McCain and will also vote for someone else or just not vote.

The record primary voters on both sides were because so many Americans despise bush, and with McCains strategy to be seemingly to agree with bush on the war, economics, etc... then he could lose tons of republicans.

And as the contest heats up I can see McCain imploding somehow much easier than Obama... If the constant Months of rev. wright didn't do it, his opposition is gonna have a tough time finding something new to exploit. And knowing them, they will have to create a fake swiftboat thing to even try. And unlike Gore and Kerrry, Obama has been able to diffuse a lot of that, using Bill Clintons immediate and total response strategy, basically reclaiming the news cycle instantly after a bogus attack.

[secret-steve-crumbles]

(warning, I don't wanna turn this into an aborton thread, just mentioning one of the many issues that will come up in the election cycle)There was this story I heard on the radio on the way home from work on Friday. They were talking about how Obama is so pro abortion, that he voted for a bill that says if the mom says to abort, then no matter what, that's what they have to do.

They continued the story talking about how this mother found out that her kid had down syndrome so she wanted to abort the child. They medicated the mother, and forced her into labor forcing a premature birth to supposedly kill the kid. The infant managed to survive the delivery, and the doctors were NOT allowed to try and save his life thanks to this bill Obmama voted for. The nurse said she rocked the baby for 45 minutes until he died.

I have never hated Obama more in my entire life. I seriously hope he dies. Vote for Obama, he doesn't value human rights.

"Jill Stanek, a registered delivery-ward nurse who was the prime mover behind the legislation after she witnessed aborted babies’ being born alive and left to die, testified twice before Obama in support of the Induced Infant Liability Act bills. She also testified before the U.S. Congress in support of the Born Alive Infant Protection Act.

Stanek told me her testimony “did not faze” Obama."

In the second hearing, Stanek said, “I brought pictures in and presented them to the committee of very premature babies from my neonatal resuscitation book from the American Pediatric Association, trying to show them unwanted babies were being cast aside. Babies the same age were being treated if they were wanted!”

“And those pictures didn’t faze him [Obama] at all,” she said.

article (http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=18647)

[phatlip12]

I have never hated Obama more in my entire life. I seriously hope he dies.



SEEK HELP.


I'm not trying to be a smart ass this time either. It's scary to know you walk around in public with a loaded deadly weapon with this kind of attitude.

Don't be afraid to get the help you obviously need.

[rabidbadger]

I have never hated Obama more in my entire life. I seriously hope he dies. Vote for Obama, he doesn't value human rights.

dude, if those doesn't get you banned, it should get you arrested.

You have totally lost any credibility and you are the first I'm putting on ignore ever.

[secret-steve-crumbles]

SEEK HELP.


I'm not trying to be a smart ass this time either. It's scary to know you walk around in public with a loaded deadly weapon with this kind of attitude.

Don't be afraid to get the help you obviously need.

dude, if those doesn't get you banned, it should get you arrested.

You have totally lost any credibility and you are the first I'm putting on ignore ever.Let me know when you guys have kids... oh, well, I guess only phatty... and you are holding him for the first time. Then, think about Obama how he doesn't give a shit if that kid dies. You guys think I need help, that's hilarious. Also, I love (how very typical as a Liberal though) that you both ignored the story and tried to place some sort of blame on me. Just do what you guys always do. Keep those blinders on and vote for change!

The fact that you phatty devalue human life as much as Obama does doesn't mean I need help. That's amazing that you guys fight for this guy.

[masherscf]

Let me know when you guys have kids... oh, well, I guess only phatty... and you are holding him for the first time...

Plenty of parents are pro-choice. However, I'd agree that there are way too many abortions.

I know you guys and gals love this. So, I'd hate to have to shut down the thread. Write what you need to, but read it before you submit it.

[secret-steve-crumbles]

Plenty of parents are pro-choice. However, I'd agree that there are way too many abortions.

I know you guys and gals love this. So, I'd hate to have to shut down the thread. Write what you need to, but read it before you submit it.Abortion is a tough one with me. I don't get the whole "pro-choice!" argument though. You had a choice when you were having sex.

I'm just not sure how I feel about rape though... that one is tough.

[masherscf]

Abortion is a tough one with me. I don't get the whole "pro-choice!" argument though. You had a choice when you were having sex.

I'm just not sure how I feel about rape though... that one is tough.

I'm technically pro-choice. In that, I believe in cases where a women with a doctors advice should have abortion as a choice of procedure. I don't approve of abortion for contraception. And, I would never condone my wife having an abortion unless her life was a stake or the fetus was non-viable. However, I don't feel like I have the right to tell someone else what to do.

Nevertheless, the number of abortions in the country frightens me. If you included abortion with the normal infant-mortality statistics, people would be flabbergasted.

I think people approach parenthood incorrectly. Alex Albrecht said it, "When you have kids...it's over." This is no entirely not true.

[secret-steve-crumbles]

...However, I don't feel like I have the right to tell someone else what to do.Then why do the chicks get to tell you what to do. The kid would be half yours too.

[rabidbadger]

well, I was trying to say in my preface that I didn't want this to be an abortion thread, I was just trying to add that Democratic woman Hillary supporters need to remember one of the major reasons they became political at all. And that they will most probably rethink McCain when they are reminded of two words: Supreme Court.

[masherscf]

Then why do the chicks get to tell you what to do. The kid would be half yours too.

See, now you've moved from general to specific. Before I had sex with the women with whom I would have children. We settled the issue. I maintained responsibility for my seed until the day we were married.

I believe I should have a say about my own issue. So, I never put myself in a position where I can lose that control.

[secret-steve-crumbles]

I believe I should have a say about my own issue. So, I never put myself in a position where I can lose that control.OK, that's a good point. However, what about if a consensus was made prior, then your woman changes her mind (after the fact.)

[ryudo]

haha wow with crumbles hoping someone dies I now know who called me a "fag" in the rep thing esp in this latest post trying to poke fun at badger in a subtle way.

Well now does crumbles carry a loaded weapon and wishes death on people but a homophobe as well.

Bravo!

[secret-steve-crumbles]

Well now does crumbles carry a loaded weapon and wishes death on people
So let me get this straight. After reading what Obama stands for, and how little he values human life, you choose to totally ignore how fucked up he is, and get upset with me for him devaluing human life.

This world is seriously fucked up. Now I know why you guys all vote for him.

I never thought in my entire life I would be looked at as the "bad guy" for believing in human life.

You guys are all seriously fucking morons and deserve each other.

[ryudo]

WHo said I was for Obama?

I still won't wish death on him even if I disagree with someones views.

The moment you do you are no better than another person who devalues life.

An Eye for an Eye makes the world go blind.

[masherscf]

OK, that's a good point. However, what about if a consensus was made prior, then your woman changes her mind (after the fact.)

Happily, that didn't happen. I suppose if the experience had me properly soured, I might support some sort of legal protection for fathers. But, then again, I can't imagine my wife every getting an abortion. Although, she is also technically pro-choice, she shares the same revulsion at the prospect of terminating her own fetus.

Nevertheless, I believe that most of the outcry against abortion is not out of concern for the rights of potential fathers, but in an attempt to legislate morality. It's the same with prohibition in 1920's. Legislating morality as bad an idea as legislating the economy.

[rabidbadger]

haha wow with crumbles hoping someone dies I now know who called me a "fag" in the rep thing esp in this latest post trying to poke fun at badger in a subtle way.

Well now does crumbles carry a loaded weapon and wishes death on people but a homophobe as well.

Bravo!

gays guns and god, that's all they got. Horrible economy, endless war, housing forclusures, eternal national debt, skyrocketing energy costs, high unemployment, ignored infrastructure... But they will try to keep their base voting against their own self interests based on archaic "values" issues. Not realizing that such voters are dying off faster than tse tse flys, and the youth are taking up a new banner.

[ageexchick]

Bohemiem, I was reading through your earlier posts about Hilary. I believe it was on the NBC Nightly News on, perhaps, Thursday night -- but they were mentioning exactly what you've pointed out. Having lived in NY for her "reign" as Senator there, she did change a lot, attitude-wise. I always had my issue with her b/c of how she handled the whole cheating thing with Bill, though. At that time, I was thinking that she probably forgave him and stood behind him b/c she wanted to get back into the running game later on. (why else do you stand public humiliation like that??) And, well, here she is.
I think that she just started listening to the people/advisors on her campaign and became what they said she should be, rather than just being herself. She lost her humanity in that time, and realized it just a little too late. Even when you look back into the last couple of weeks, her attitude behind the podium has changed, and she seems a lot more personable. She went into it seeming like a bull dog, and I believe that was her overall downfall.

As to the abortion topic -- I wouldn't touch that with a 39 1/2 foot pole.

[ryudo]

I wouldn't touch that with a 39 1/2 foot pole.
Not that the song refers to you just the quote
http://www.christmaslibrary.ca/grinch/clipart/grinch.mp3

[rabidbadger]

...
I think that she just started listening to the people/advisors on her campaign and became what they said she should be, rather than just being herself. She lost her humanity in that time, and realized it just a little too late. Even when you look back into the last couple of weeks, her attitude behind the podium has changed, and she seems a lot more personable. She went into it seeming like a bull dog, and I believe that was her overall downfall.

As to the abortion topic -- I wouldn't touch that with a 39 1/2 foot pole.

I think it's partially a sexism issue, women just socially "aren't allowed" to be bulldogs in the US, but no one has an issue with a man being a bull dog, in fact it's expected, and rewarded. Unlike Thatcher in the UK, Hillary not being soft and compliant lost her the race, but only barely. Her "bulldog" stance, which I respect, actually got her further than any woman ever. Her downfall was because of what you said. ... her people/advisors screwing up.

And I loved her "18 million cracks in the glass ceiling" quote today. that made me smile.

[rabidbadger]

Not that the song refers to you just the quote
http://www.christmaslibrary.ca/grinch/clipart/grinch.mp3

good to see a little humor injected into this thread. I'd rep ya, but I met my quota on you, so I'll rep ageexchix instead...

[masherscf]

I think it's partially a sexism issue

*The following post is spoken ironically, and contains course language. I is not to be taken seriously.*


It's all a sexism issue. It's the old Roman prejudice. They believed that homosexuality wasn't improper as long as you're the bugger and not the buggee. The fucker is always superior to the one getting fucked. It's true in boardrooms and it's true in the white house. And, it's why the military distrusts women and homosexuals. They want fuckers.

Men and women walk into the voting booth and for the briefest instant they imagine that 9/11 moment and who they wants in the White House. Those bastages need a serious fucking. And Hillary, with all her brains, accomplishments and capabilities is just not properly equipped.

I hate to make the point so coarsely, but I think it's just that simple.

[rabidbadger]

*The following post is spoken ironically, and contains course language. I is not to be taken seriously.*


It's all a sexism issue. It's the old Roman prejudice. They believed that homosexuality wasn't improper as long as you're the bugger and not the buggee. The fucker is always superior to the one getting fucked. It's true in boardrooms and it's true in the white house. And, it's why the military distrusts women and homosexuals. They want fuckers.

Men and women walk into the voting booth and for the briefest instant they imagine that 9/11 moment and who they wants in the White House. Those bastages need a serious fucking. And Hillary, with all her brains, accomplishments and capabilities is just not properly equipped.

I hate to make the point so coarsely, but I think it's just that simple.

I am laughing so hard right now. and by hard I mean "hard" :D

[ageexchick]

*The following post is spoken ironically, and contains course language. I is not to be taken seriously.*


It's all a sexism issue. It's the old Roman prejudice. They believed that homosexuality wasn't improper as long as you're the bugger and not the buggee. The fucker is always superior to the one getting fucked. It's true in boardrooms and it's true in the white house. And, it's why the military distrusts women and homosexuals. They want fuckers.

Men and women walk into the voting booth and for the briefest instant they imagine that 9/11 moment and who they wants in the White House. Those bastages need a serious fucking. And Hillary, with all her brains, accomplishments and capabilities is just not properly equipped.

I hate to make the point so coarsely, but I think it's just that simple.

Well, you are right, and that's where I think we go wrong. I believe that her instinct could have been good. And we've had all these "buggers" in office. Perhaps a bit of compassion in the White House couldn't hurt. I mean, our current president recently went to Israel to attempt peace talks with them. The opening line of his speech was, "Welcome to the Middle East. Politics is consisted of one leader in power, and the opposition in jail." That's not even a backhanded insult, that was right to their faces. And not to say that Hillary is the one who should be in office, but maybe we need someone who isn't as coarse when trying to speak on peace.
If homosexuals and women are not "properly equipped" as you say, that rules out just about most of this country for presidency, which is unconstitutional in and of itself. I believe that *anyone* can grow up to be president.
Honestly, I'd get a kick out seeing Mr. President, and his first husband.

[masherscf]

Well, you are right, and that's where I think we go wrong.

Of course, you're right. I was only trying to be humorous. Just for 'Badge though. He knows me well enough.

[quix]

I agree. Democrats started off with very different values. Democrats back then are not the same as what they are today. When we founded this country we were leaving old George's rule. Individualism is the last thing people care about now. They want the rule back.

Some do, though most liberals(and conservatives) don't fit under that category.

What the stats don't show you is that most people could afford it if they wanted to. For example, I have a friend who doesn't have any health insurance because he can't "afford" it. He can afford his cell phone payments, TV, internet, and brand new PC that he just bought though. However, if he were asked, it'd be: "No, I can't afford it."

Oh, there are certainly some people who are simply being irresponsible, but there are also those who are working two or three jobs and yet can barely support their families. It's simply a matter of whether your focus is on the people who are irresponsible or the people who are trying their hardest to get by but are falling through the cracks.

Also, I'm not saying there isn't anything wrong with our health care system. There are several things that could be done to make it affordable. Remove bullshit lawsuits, illegals jumping the hospital bills, etc.

Oh, I definitely agree that there are improvements which could be made yet stop short of universal coverage. I know Obama's proposal doesn't feature a mandate yet is designed to make it more affordable by creating a public plan for those who want it while leaving private care as an option, but with a watch dog group to ensure that it is as generous as the public plan.

You think conservatives aren't? There is nothing wrong with charities, churches, or the evil rich people donating money to help out citizens. America is the most generous countries out there.

I didn't mean to imply that, though I can see how it would come across as though I did. I do think liberal policy shows more concern for the poor than conservative policies, but the vast majority of conservatives do care about the poor, they just think it should be left to private entities.

I agree too. However, again, this is where our ideals differ. You feel that the government should take from me to help them out. I feel the government should uphold their rights to allow them to better themselves. One preaches individual responsibility. Something Liberals don't want.

It is definitely where we differ since I wouldn't even describe taxes as taking your money but rather as you contributing your fair share to the society as a whole given that everyone relies on the government in one form or another whether it be on infrastructure such as roads or on social programs like Social Security or the Department of Education.

Because I should have the choice to have my own medical savings account. Wealthy people don't need to pay into health care. They set aside their own money for when they need it.

They set it aside because they have it. Not everyone is wealthy and not everyone has access to a proper education which is critical to ever becoming wealthy. Many families would put money aside if they had it.

Did you use my car today? Should the government force you to pay my car payment this month? But I don't understand, why wouldn't you want to use a car?

Owning a car isn't an essential human right while health care is.

Surveys have revealed that American citizens would rather pay their cell phone bill than use that money to buy insurance. They said that they will just wait to get health insurance until they get a job where it is included in a benefits package. In other words, they make a conscious decision not to get health insurance, then fully expect the taxpayers to step up and fill in the financial gaps if anything serious happens.

Which is certainly irresponsible but that doesn't mean they should be left to die just because they were short-sighted.

Clinton is giving her last speech today as a Democratic candidate. Anybody else going to watch it?

I watched it and was impressed by how enthusiastically she supported Obama as the Democratic nominee. I fully expected her to endorse him even before the story broke on Wednesday, but it was still a relief to see that she was and apparently will continue to give it her all.

A little tangent here. An irony that I observe is that people, no matter what they believe, dismiss opposing viewpoints as based on ignorance or stupidity. It never fails.

I believe that people disagree based on core beliefs and differing experiences that have nothing to do with how intellectual they are.

I agree completely.

So let me get this straight. After reading what Obama stands for, and how little he values human life, you choose to totally ignore how fucked up he is, and get upset with me for him devaluing human life.

This world is seriously fucked up. Now I know why you guys all vote for him.

I never thought in my entire life I would be looked at as the "bad guy" for believing in human life.

You guys are all seriously fucking morons and deserve each other.

To be fair, you did say he should die rather than something akin to "I hope he loses and leaves government so he can't propose any legislation." Calling for someone's death isn't the best argument in defense of the sanctity of life.

Sorry for the long post.

[rabidbadger]

well, let allow me to get married first and I'll give it a shot in 2012. ;)

[rabidbadger]

sorry for the long post

Hey, if you can argue so responsibly, and counter crumbles and others so well, then go nuts. Hopefully he will reply in kind, but I'm guessing not. He's on ignore, so I only see what he says if quoted.

[ageexchick]

well, let allow me to get married first and I'll give it a shot in 2012. ;)

June 16, 2008 at 5pm, Pacific Daylight Time. Get a man, come to Cali, and get hitched! Since the state doesn't have residency requirements for marriage, out-of-staters can just come on down. And not even civil unions and domestic partnerships, but it's called marriage.

Isn't it a great time we live in?

[ageexchick]

With this said, I expect to see you in 2012.

[rabidbadger]

Of course, you're right. I was only trying to be humorous. Just for 'Badge though. He knows me well enough.

but, ot, unless you know something I dont the greek man/youth deal was a mentorship thing. Illogical, and of an archaic belief system, but the youth went on to marry and have kids, I'm betting the Greeks had a only a slightly higher bi/gay male population than the rest of the world, past and present, due to such things.

*for crumbles: I in NO WAY advocate this. /preemptive strike, I know you like that sort of thing. :p

Now, back to our regularly scheduled program.

[autodas]

Owning a car isn't an essential human right while health care is.

No it isn't.

Which is certainly irresponsible but that doesn't mean they should be left to die just because they were short-sighted.

Yes it does.

[rabidbadger]

With this said, I expect to see you in 2012.

gotta finda man first, but that's eight years. who knows?

[ageexchick]

*for crumbles: I in NO WAY advocate this. /preemptive strike, I know you like that sort of thing. :p

Now, back to our regularly scheduled program.

haha, you know what's to come all too well...

[ageexchick]

gotta finda man first, but that's eight years. who knows?

Wait, wait... 12 minus 8 is 4... Nope. You've only got 4 years to find one. Get hopping!

[rabidbadger]

June 16, 2008 at 5pm, Pacific Daylight Time. Get a man, come to Cali, and get hitched! Since the state doesn't have residency requirements for marriage, out-of-staters can just come on down. And not even civil unions and domestic partnerships, but it's called marriage.

Isn't it a great time we live in?

and on top of that NY just passed a law accepting out of state/country marriages legal. Odd thing is, because it wasn't an option, never thought about it for 44 years. :(

[rabidbadger]

Yes it does.

cool, I get to ignore you now, mr right to life.

[ageexchick]

and on top of that NY just passed a law accepting out of state/country marriages legal. Odd thing is, because it wasn't an option, never thought about it for 44 years. :(

Really? I hadn't heard about NY.
What did you never think about? Dating? Marriage? Presidency in 2012? And, just out of curiosity, why did you never think about it? I understand that it wasn't an option, so to say, but you could have had the relationship part, at least. And now there are enough places to go that accept it. I'm just curious about your reasons.
Regarding the preemptive attack - F**k anyone who thinks badly of you for it, though I'm sure you know that already. Broken record, eh?

[rabidbadger]

haha, you know what's to come all too well...

Heck, it it gets us talking war policy on this thread, then... er... Gung HO!!! :D

[Bohemian_Beauty]

Well, regardless of who Obama picks as his running mate, I think he'll win against McCain. Ya know, the one who lost to Bush? The one who sings songs about bombing Iran? The one who called Vladimar Putin the President of Germany. The one who says he knows less about the economy than he does about foreign affiars? Let us not forget he didn't know where Putin was from.

Shouldn't be too hard. :D

[phatlip12]

Because I missed the fun earlier:

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz-score/draw.php?p=10&e=5

[skyz]

I always had my issue with her b/c of how she handled the whole cheating thing with Bill, though. At that time, I was thinking that she probably forgave him and stood behind him b/c she wanted to get back into the running game later on. (why else do you stand public humiliation like that??)


she loves him is that so impossible to understand

[spark-rain-fire]

To

The fact that you phatty devalue human life as much as Obama does doesn't mean I need help. That's amazing that you guys fight for this guy.

Abortion is 1 of many, many issues. to vote against someone because of 1 issue is just as effective as putting a blindfold on and hitting the "vote" button on the machine in November.

[Bohemian_Beauty]

I'm super stoked about gays finally being able to marry in Calie come June 17th. I just hope the people of California don't put a ban on it come November.

[rabidbadger]

dang, what's not to love. (other than the shoddy camera work, haha) who wouldn't want a leader like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnhmByYxEIo

[quix]

Owning a car isn't an essential human right while health care is.No it isn't.

Which is certainly irresponsible but that doesn't mean they should be left to die just because they were short-sighted.Yes it does.

Can you elaborate?

Well, regardless of who Obama picks as his running mate, I think he'll win against McCain. Ya know, the one who lost to Bush? The one who sings songs about bombing Iran? The one who called Vladimar Putin the President of Germany. The one who says he knows less about the economy than he does about foreign affiars? Let us not forget he didn't know where Putin was from.

Shouldn't be too hard. :D

And the things you brought up are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to McCain. For instance, he's also the maverick who voted in line with Bush 95% of the time in 2007.

I'm super stoked about gays finally being able to marry in Calie come June 17th. I just hope the people of California don't put a ban on it come November.

There was a recent poll that showed a majority of us are now for gay marriage so thankfully it's looking like it won't be overturned.

[rabidbadger]

whhooo hooo. yay. about the california poll. I can fly out officiate aria/cody, then Xibby can officiate me and my man, and then I can fly back and all is legal

[rabidbadger]

sooo, back on topic... New rasmusen poll puts Obama above McCain by five. Too early for polls, I think. but at the first "official" day of the two canditate race, it's a good sign for "yes, we can"

[Bohemian_Beauty]

At first I was worried about Obama losing, but as ever day goes buy, I feel more confident that he'll blow McCain outta the water.

[tokenuser]

sooo, back on topic... New rasmusen poll puts Obama above McCain by five. Too early for polls, I think. but at the first "official" day of the two canditate race, it's a good sign for "yes, we can"NPR said a poll on the economy had Obama ahead by 15. Makes me wonder whyhe is only ahead by 5 points if he leads the issue people are most concerned about (economy was ahead of war).

[rabidbadger]

to be honest, that rasmusen poll was published today, but was taken before Clinton conceded, so is already outdated.

and comparing a one issue poll v. a overall poll isn't even.

my mom woulda said healthcare as the main issue, and I woulda said the war, but both would favor Obama.

[rabidbadger]

and NPR is naturally suspect. /foxnoise

[quix]

The recent polls I've seen have said that McCain is tied with Obama nationally which astounds me given all of the gaffes that McCain has made.

[Bohemian_Beauty]

Just saw this on Digg.

I really really like Obama. There's hundreds of pics in this link. Check em out!

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/070323obama-early-photogallery,0,5576750.photogallery

[tokenuser]

The recent polls I've seen have said that McCain is tied with Obama nationally which astounds me given all of the gaffes that McCain has made.I like that he is vetoing beer.
Look at how that worked out for Kevin and Alex on Diggnation ...

[quix]

I like that he is vetoing beer.
Look at how that worked out for Kevin and Alex on Diggnation ...

It's clearly part of a plan on McCain's part to win support on the Internet.

Step One: Veto Beer.
Step Two: Explosive Fist Pound With Mitt Romney and Charlie Crist.
Step Three: Release a Lolcat image featuring himself.
Step Four: Become an Internet Superstar.

[masherscf]

It's clearly part of a plan on McCain's part to win support on the Internet.

Step One: Veto Beer.
Step Two: Explosive Fist Pound With Mitt Romney and Charlie Crist.
Step Three: Release a Lolcat image featuring himself.
Step Four: Become an Internet Superstar.

I had no idea that Marty was campaign manager.

[tokenuser]

I had no idea that Marty was campaign manager.He's not ... but we all know Gator is the brains behind that outfit.

[rabidbadger]

Ok, I changed my mind. I'm voting republican.

http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/

[tokenuser]

Ok, I changed my mind. I'm voting republican.Damnit. If I could renounce my Australian citizenship and get my greencard, and become a US citizen before voter registration ends, *I* will vote republican too.

[kowgod]

I think it would be neato if Obama chose Bill Richardson of New Mexico as his running mate. A White/Black/Hispanic ticket! You can't lose!

Seriously, though, Richardson is an amazing man, and as a nifty little side effect, he could potentially attract the huge Latino vote, which traditionally has been more conservative over the past few cycles.

I would strongly oppose Hillary as Obama's VP. She dug her own grave.

As for McCain? Umm. I hope he chooses a Democrat? Shrug.

[tokenuser]

I think it would be neato if Obama chose Bill Richardson of New Mexico as his running mate. A White/Black/Hispanic ticket! You can't lose!Richardson is an interesting choice. Polls had Hilary picking up the latino vote. Richardson would do the same.

[Bohemian_Beauty]

Ok, I changed my mind. I'm voting republican.

http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/

Hahaha. Fucking awesome.

[rabidbadger]

Hahaha. Fucking awesome.

thank wideawakewesly, he put it on his twitter.

[rabidbadger]

I think it would be neato if Obama chose Bill Richardson of New Mexico as his running mate. A White/Black/Hispanic ticket! You can't lose!

Seriously, though, Richardson is an amazing man, and as a nifty little side effect, he could potentially attract the huge Latino vote, which traditionally has been more conservative over the past few cycles.

I would strongly oppose Hillary as Obama's VP. She dug her own grave.

As for McCain? Umm. I hope he chooses a Democrat? Shrug.

There are a ton of reasons richardson would be awesome, especially now that edwards has flat out refused.

Hispanic, south west, mellow, older, and tons of international experience. Now that I think of it, I can't think of anyone better.

[Bohemian_Beauty]

Vote here! (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10562904/)

[quix]

He's not ... but we all know Gator is the brains behind that outfit.

...it all makes sense now.

GAAAAAAAAATORRR!!!!

There are a ton of reasons richardson would be awesome, especially now that edwards has flat out refused.

Hispanic, south west, mellow, older, and tons of international experience. Now that I think of it, I can't think of anyone better.

I think Richardson has serious potential and he would definitely reassure a lot of voters who are nervous about inexperience. The only problem I can think of is the fact that the remaining Clinton supporters probably don't like him given that he is "Judas."

I've been hearing Jim Webb kicked around as a potential VP and I could see that, though he has serious vulnerabilities such as his article "Women Can't Fight" and his statements about the Confederacy. (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0608/10994.html)

[Bohemian_Beauty]

And people call McCain a social liberal. Pffft. My ass.


x7Z4dxjRv4g

[quix]

I'm glad to see that McCain's position is being dragged into the light.

I'm hoping that we'll see more groups follow Planned Parenthoods lead and make videos featuring the candidates' positions on their causes.
I mean, sure you can just go to the candidates' websites and read up on their stated positions, but more people will watch a video like this than will seek out lists of their votes and positions.

[njshadow]

McCain or Clinton > Obama

Sriously guys, I really think Obama is hiding some things behind his charm. I may have said earlier, I was really stoked about Obama in the beginning and thought for the first time I might vote Democrat but then things quickly changed and I heard about some of Obama's policies that quickly changed my mind. In my opinion his smile and smooth talk is fooling a lot of people. I never thought I would ever say this, but Hilary would have been a better candidate than Obama. I'm voting for McCain anyway so it really doesn't matter but I highly suggest you Obama supporters take a deeper look at some of his policies, and not just from the Liberal view, but from the Conservative view as well. You need to take both views and opinions into account and decide for yourself. I've listened to both Republicans and Democrats criticize some of Obama's policies and it seems that they might be right.

And.....uhhhhh......McCain 08 baby! Whoooo!!! :D:D

[Bohemian_Beauty]

McCain or Clinton > Obama

Sriously guys, I really think Obama is hiding some things behind his charm. I may have said earlier, I was really stoked about Obama in the beginning and thought for the first time I might vote Democrat but then things quickly changed and I heard about some of Obama's policies that quickly changed my mind. In my opinion his smile and smooth talk is fooling a lot of people. I never thought I would ever say this, but Hilary would have been a better candidate than Obama. I'm voting for McCain anyway so it really doesn't matter but I highly suggest you Obama supporters take a deeper look at some of his policies, and not just from the Liberal view, but from the Conservative view as well. You need to take both views and opinions into account and decide for yourself. I've listened to both Republicans and Democrats criticize some of Obama's policies and it seems that they might be right.

And.....uhhhhh......McCain 08 baby! Whoooo!!! :D:D

Nah. His policies are precisely why I like him so much, his intelligence and charm are a close second.

What is it about his policies that bother you?

[comhcinc]

and thought for the first time I might vote Democrat but then things quickly changed

wait how old are you again?

[gimpbully]

First off, please don't insult people's ability to read a person. To say someone can't see through a smile and oration is hugely insulting.

I have been listening to what Obama has been saying as well as all of the "viable" candidates. I fear McCain's complete lack of understanding of the world around him, even nationally. He seems to be completely disconnected from reality when it comes to basic things like.. pay-scale. Yes, that's one example but it's fairly blunt. Internationally he can't seem to go a day without misnaming foreign leaders... the people with whom he would be charged to deal with on a daily basis. I'd be a bit more understanding if he weren't a "seasoned" politician who should know this stuff by now. I flat out disagree with his policies on Iraq, his insistence on revising the definition of "basic rights" and his ideas on the integration of christianity into government. These are all areas where I completely agree with stances Obama has taken. The list goes on, so I'll thank you not to liken me to a fool eating what some politician is doling out.

McCain or Clinton > Obama

Sriously guys, I really think Obama is hiding some things behind his charm. I may have said earlier, I was really stoked about Obama in the beginning and thought for the first time I might vote Democrat but then things quickly changed and I heard about some of Obama's policies that quickly changed my mind. In my opinion his smile and smooth talk is fooling a lot of people. I never thought I would ever say this, but Hilary would have been a better candidate than Obama. I'm voting for McCain anyway so it really doesn't matter but I highly suggest you Obama supporters take a deeper look at some of his policies, and not just from the Liberal view, but from the Conservative view as well. You need to take both views and opinions into account and decide for yourself. I've listened to both Republicans and Democrats criticize some of Obama's policies and it seems that they might be right.

And.....uhhhhh......McCain 08 baby! Whoooo!!! :D:D

[Bohemian_Beauty]

wait how old are you again?

Hehe. Not very old, but I'm glad he is interested in politics at his young age, even if he is for the other guy.

[comhcinc]

Hehe. Not very old, but I'm glad he is interested in politics at his young age, even if he is for the other guy.
my point is he is acting like he has done a lot of voting.

and thought for the first time I might vote Democrat but then things quickly changed
i mean that sounds like something my grandfather might say.

[njshadow]

First off, please don't insult people's ability to read a person. To say someone can't see through a smile and oration is hugely insulting.

Whoah man, take a chill pill. I never called you or anybody else a fool, I just said that, in my opinion, he is fooling a lot of people and that people should analyze what he says and his policies carefully. Scheeze! :rolleyes:

[Bohemian_Beauty]

Whoah man, take a chill pill. I never called you or anybody else a fool, I just said that, in my opinion, he is fooling a lot of people and that people should analyze what he says and his policies carefully. Scheeze! :rolleyes:

We do, and that's why we like him!

You act as if everyone shares your values. I certainly don't.

So, what about his policies don't you like?

[njshadow]

We do, and that's why we like him!

You act as if everyone shares your values. I certainly don't.

So, what about his policies don't you like?

His economic policies are full of holes and it's as if he's trying to bring back the Carter era where our country's economy was going down the crapper. I also agree with some of the things that 'Crumbles' brings up like how we lose personal responsibility and that the government should be held accountable to bail us out (wrong) and that wealth should be divided equally amongst everyone whether or not you put forth the effort to earn it (wrong, even though those without much would love it).

Also, I think it was 100% WRONG for the Obama campaign to pounce on Hillary for the "June assassination reference". Was it taken out of context? Yes. And yet the Obama campaign kept the firestorm going over something pointless instead of focusing on the issues.......

[Bohemian_Beauty]

His economic policies are full of holes and it's as if he's trying to bring back the Carter era where our country's economy was going down the crapper. I also agree with some of the things that 'Crumbles' brings up like how we lose personal responsibility and that the government should be held accountable to bail us out (wrong) and that wealth should be divided equally amongst everyone whether or not you put forth the effort to earn it (wrong, even though those without much would love it).

Wrong, in your opinion.**

[njshadow]

Also, from what I've been seeing and hearing, many of Obama's policies are reminiscent of Socialism.

[Bohemian_Beauty]

Also, from what I've been seeing and hearing, many of Obama's policies are reminiscent of Socialism.

And??

[comhcinc]

Also, from what I've been seeing and hearing, many of Obama's policies are reminiscent of Socialism.

how so?

[phatlip12]

Also, I think it was 100% WRONG for the Obama campaign to pounce on Hillary for the "June assassination reference". Was it taken out of context? Yes. And yet the Obama campaign kept the firestorm going over something pointless instead of focusing on the issues.......

How about the Hilary campaign hopping on Obama's case over Reverend Wright? It's the same thing. Actually, it's not. I only heard about the "assassination reference" for a few days. The Hilary campaign drilled the Wright comment into the ground WEEK after WEEK after WEEK...

When it's all said and done- thats politics for you. EVERY candidate is guilty of it. Democrat or Republican. Welcome to the game- protect your throat. ;)

[njshadow]

And??

And what? That's a bad thing. Like I said earlier, it takes power and responsibility away from the people (individuals) and turns it into a vision of some kind of collective prosperity. Although that might sound warm and fuzzy, that's really not a good thing.

[Bohemian_Beauty]

And what? That's a bad thing. Like I said earlier, it takes power and responsibility away from the people (individuals) and turns it into a vision of some kind of collective prosperity. Although that might sound warm and fuzzy, that's really not a good thing.

It's a bad thing for greedy rednecks. ^_~

However, much of the western world would disagree with you.

[phatlip12]

And what? That's a bad thing. Like I said earlier, it takes power and responsibility away from the people (individuals) and turns it into a vision of some kind of collective prosperity. Although that might sound warm and fuzzy, that's really not a good thing.

Ok, how are Obama's policies reminiscent of Socialism?

Me thinks NJ's dad is rubbing off on him. ;)

"Hey Dad, how are Obama's policies reminiscent of Socialism?"

haha, jk

:P

[njshadow]

How about the Hilary campaign hopping on Obama's case over Reverend Wright? It's the same thing. Actually, it's not. I only heard about the "assassination reference" for a few days. The Hilary campaign drilled the Wright comment into the ground WEEK after WEEK after WEEK...

When it's all said and done- thats politics for you. EVERY candidate is guilty of it. Democrat or Republican. Welcome to the game- protect your throat. ;)

Regarding the end of your post, you absolutely right. The mud gets flung everywhere.

Regarding the first part of your post, I think they were different situations entirely. I believe the whole Reverend Wright thing was much more serious. Hillary made a stupid comment whereas Reverend Wright was looked at as a mentor and counselor for Obama. If Obama shares any of those beleifs, I'd say that's a bit more serious than an out of place/stupid comment.

[njshadow]

Ok, how are Obama's policies reminiscent of Socialism?

Me thinks NJ's dad is rubbing off on him. ;)

"Hey Dad, how are Obama's policies reminiscent of Socialism?"

haha, jk

:P


Huh? Yeah, glad you put j/k cause that isn't even close. That was kind of a surprise coming from you........ :confused:

[phatlip12]

Huh? Yeah, glad you put j/k cause that isn't even close. That was kind of a surprise coming from you........ :confused:

Simmer down killer, it was a joke. ;)

[gimpbully]

His economic policies are full of holes and it's as if he's trying to bring back the Carter era where our country's economy was going down the crapper. I also agree with some of the things that 'Crumbles' brings up like how we lose personal responsibility and that the government should be held accountable to bail us out (wrong) and that wealth should be divided equally amongst everyone whether or not you put forth the effort to earn it (wrong, even though those without much would love it).

Also, I think it was 100% WRONG for the Obama campaign to pounce on Hillary for the "June assassination reference". Was it taken out of context? Yes. And yet the Obama campaign kept the firestorm going over something pointless instead of focusing on the issues.......

First, what about the Carter administration is Obama trying to bring back? Second, how does McCain and the current administrations' views on bailing out mortgage firms fit into this view of personal responsibility? I would argue he is for the opposite, as long as you're part of a large corporation.
I have never heard Obama go on about distributing wealth equally, that's simply a false assertion.

And to focus on one rebuttal from a camp over assertions (yes, I agree, she didn't say this, it was a veiled assertion) of the possibility of a campaign changing assassination is fairly asinine in light of the dozens of times a day this sort of thing happens in a campaign. Truth is, Obama's one of the few politicians in a very long time to run a relatively clean campaign. I would assert by doing so, he has focused on what is important more than most candidates, viable or otherwise.

[rabidbadger]

NJ. chill pill time. It ti blatantly obvious that you have no interest in facts. Just grow up, read some facts, and vote when you are old enough. Oh, and turn off Fox. You do understand "fair and balanced" is just a PR slogan, right?

[gimpbully]

Also, from what I've been seeing and hearing, many of Obama's policies are reminiscent of Socialism.

Please, stick to concrete points. Hearing that a candidate's "policies" mirror socialism is a hairline away from conjecture. Yes, there is an element of socialism in our republic... that's the nature of a centralized government...

[gimpbully]

wait how old are you again?

I'm curious of this myself... how could this possibly be the second time you've even had a chance to vote? If you did vote last time, how can you, responsibly, talk of being bamboozled by a smooth talking candidate if you voted republican last time...?

[rabidbadger]

you really think he is gonna get that?

[tokenuser]

His economic policies are full of holes and it's as if he's trying to bring back the Carter era where our country's economy was going down the crapper. I also agree with some of the things that 'Crumbles' brings up like how we lose personal responsibility and that the government should be held accountable to bail us out (wrong) and that wealth should be divided equally amongst everyone whether or not you put forth the effort to earn it (wrong, even though those without much would love it). Wow that was inciteful :rolleyes:

The "Carter Era" of 10 years before you were born that was followed by the even more successful "Reagan Era". Did you know that as a percentage of the population, more people were unemployed in America than they were during the Great Depression?

You are drinking the neo-con koolaid. Where has anyone stated that wealth should be distributed equally among the unwashed masses? Oh, thats right because Obama is proposing raising taxes ... ummm no. Obama is proposing letting the TEMPORARY tax breaks that GWB put in place to expire, and indeed reducing taxation for a number of groups.

An interest in politics is healthy, and to be honest I don't care who you vote for provided you get off your ass and exercise your democratic right to vote, but please be aware of the fact and don't just regurgitate the rhetoric.

With McCains stance on stemcell research, gay marriage, and abortion (he flipflops worse than Kerry ever did on this issue), I am surprised you aren't flipping sides at this point.

[comhcinc]

You are drinking the neo-con koolaid. Where has anyone stated that wealth should be distributed equally among the unwashed masses? Oh, thats right because Obama is proposing raising taxes ... ummm no. Obama is proposing letting the TEMPORARY tax breaks that GWB put in place to expire, and indeed reducing taxation for a number of groups.

i would just like to mention that we are the only country in the history of the world to institute taxes cuts during war time.


i mean talk about responsibility.