Worst. Editing/Camwork. Ever.

[atreyu]

Seriously this show's use of jump cuts is enough to make a blind person have epileptic seizures. On top of which the camera work is atrocious: STOP with the dutch angles already! And why must every single shot move like we're about to see Jason Bourne fly through the window, it's a talk podcast... not a Hollywood action film- keep the camera static.

Don't get me wrong, the content is good: just not the camera work/editing. I'd honestly watch the show if it wasn't plagued with nauseous camera work and horrid editing.

Ok so just to show how I'm not the person that rants, and doesn't try to solve a problem:
1. Pre-Production. Plan out a few different angels/positions for the host so you can cut between them. [This solves the tasteless jump cuts]
2. Camera work: A message directly to the DP- dude if you wanna work on a set were the camera is moving ALL THE TIME, go to a film set. Podcasts are not the place to do this. Simply lock your tripod and allow the camera to move a little for headroom/lead. And dutch angles should be used sparingly, they are too often overused. Plus they make a final product seem a bit trite and it takes the viewer away from the content, when your main job to keep them in the content.
3.Editing: As long as there are sufficient options for cuts you don't have to constantly use jump cuts. It's painful to see a full, professional show go through post without the limiting jump cuts and bad timing.

Ok so that's all I got to say, I know I'll get flak for this. But this needs to be addressed.

[danielsamuels]

In a way, I sort of agree with you. But it sort of makes this podcast unique, because the bog standard "square to camera", simple cuts aren't used.

Check out the videos of "yongfook" on YouTube, he has a similar style, but his videos are incredibly funny. All he does is record in Quicktime, place markers, and hit delete, but it is very effective.
Take a look: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgxVA3OdZnI

[nextgenxbox]

It's a style choice. I call it "MTV Editing" where its BAM! BAM! BAM! CUT! CUT! CUT! in order to keep the viewer's attention.

I do agree that it really isn't needed for this show.

[atreyu]

It's a style choice. I call it "MTV Editing" where its BAM! BAM! BAM! CUT! CUT! CUT! in order to keep the viewer's attention.

I do agree that it really isn't needed for this show.

Thank you, it's setting a standard that's saying you're the type of person who cant keep his/her attention for more than 2secs and grouping you with the "MTV type" demographic. Which, I'm sure you'll agree, is not the same demographic as anyone who watches a REV3 podcast. It's insulting and like I said, trite.

[atreyu]

In a way, I sort of agree with you. But it sort of makes this podcast unique, because the bog standard "square to camera", simple cuts aren't used.

Check out the videos of "yongfook" on YouTube, he has a similar style, but his videos are incredibly funny. All he does is record in Quicktime, place markers, and hit delete, but it is very effective.
Take a look: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgxVA3OdZnI

I agree, it does supplement what he's making. I'm not trying to say jump cuts are a bad practice- they have their application, just not a podcast talk show.
You'll notice that the cuts aren't even synced: her face just randomly moves across the screen, denoting a very poor cut. It's as if she messed up the lines and instead of reshooting, they just cut and went on. As a film student, I see it all the time in student films. Since they're on a time constraint they'll sacrifice editing for just getting the dialogue/story moved on... but the thing is this isn't an amateur student film, its a professional podcast.
I know this show is new to REV3, and I'm sure the professionals there will remedy this.

[nextgenxbox]

As a film student,.

Hey, I'm a film student too! I'm about to send you a PM.

[jgeogh01]

I gotta be honest: I completely disagree. I don't feel they are necessary, but I wouldn't change a thing about them. They make the whole podcast feel edgy, exciting, interesting! And its not like it happens for half an hour; they are short and sweet. I love the style: don't change it!

[chriswalkr]

I like the editing it makes the podcast unique.

[Mal]

Most of Rev3's programming has a really slow pace to it for a good reason... and even though I watched Epic-Fu before it joined, it's refreshing to see something that's more in-your-face. If anything, it looks like it has been toned down since moving here.

[wideawakewesley]

I like the editing it makes the podcast unique.

I agree, I like it.

[sugarsickness]

Podcasts are not the place to do this. What a great mindset to try and spread.

[atreyu]

What a great mindset to try and spread.

when I said this I was referring to "talkshow" podcasts. Im sure if there was some serial narrative podcast it would be different.

[vahnx]

I like the editing it makes the podcast unique.

Agreed

[phatlip12]

I don't think the viewer should really be "aware" of the shows editing. If the way the show is edited is this noticeable something needs to change.

I'm sorry, not a fan of the editing.

[phoenixp3k]

In my first impression of the show. The first thing I mentionned was the editing and the way it's cut. It's very different from what already exists on Revision3 and thats why I like it.

I do understand where you're coming from, and I can assume you discovered the show only because it came to Revision3. They had over an 100 episodes before coming here and I'm sure Revision3 picked up that show because they believed they could attrack new eye balls to the Rev3 content. They also have their following that stuck with them because of what they already are. They have their own community that would probably jump the gun with arguments against your proposition. (MIX (http://mix.epicfu.com/) has over 2,600 members)

I don't have MTV but I do get the vibe that it's made to be fast paced, quick, fun transitions of anything (Zadi moving her arms in circle).

Very personnaly I DO NOT WANT them to change their style one bit. It takes a bit of everything to make a world and I want the part Epic Fu brings to the table as well.

I'm not a film student and know nothing about editing, or shooting angles or cutting scenes, but I don't believe they just throw "the tape" in Final Cut and cut the show in 5 minutes.

[samureye]

I have no problems, as Phatlip mentioned, I didn't notice anything to make me speak against it, so that must be good. Oh and this comes from someone whose just started camera work for class, so I guess I'll soon be perpetuating this practice. It shall go on...forever!

[kilroyperrywinkle]

Don't like?

Don't watch.

Threads like this make me feel bad for the all people behind these shows. Because they don't hear from the countless people who just simply sit back watch and enjoy. All they hear from are people who nitpick, give mean criticisms and whine, but just KEEP WATCHING... and keep finding new things to complain about.

Don't worry Epic Fu, its just the way of the beast. You haven't really made at Rev3 till a thread is started that insults your mother. Just wait... it'll be there.

[atreyu]

Don't like?

Don't watch.

Threads like this make me feel bad for the all people behind these shows. Because they don't hear from the countless people who just simply sit back watch and enjoy. All they hear from are people who nitpick, give mean criticisms and whine, but just KEEP WATCHING... and keep finding new things to complain about.

Don't worry Epic Fu, its just the way of the beast. You haven't really made at Rev3 till a thread is started that insults your mother. Just wait... it'll be there.

oh dont worry, I don't watch the show. I cant bare it for more than 45 secs. and I wasn't bitching, i was being a critic. World's full of em, so get used to it.

[kilroyperrywinkle]

Yeah the world is full of 'em so its okay to bitch about things you don't take part in.

Good world view ya got there.... keep it up.

[samureye]

Yeah the world is full of 'em so its okay to bitch about things you don't take part in.

Good world view ya got there.... keep it up.
I agree with you, I do feel bad for the people behind the show, but to atreyu's credit, he gave reasons for why he didn't like it and thoughts on fixing it, so I really can't fault him for that and wish more people would do that, since I can think of at least one user by name that bad-mouths shows and admits to not even watching!

[zadi]

Hey Guys,

Thanks for all the conversation on the editing... we read the threads, so it's good to hear your thoughts.

Just so you guys know, I also edit the show. With over 100 shows under my belt, it'll be good to pass the torch to a new editor (who starts working with us on Tuesday!) - god knows I could use an editing break. And he may even teach me a few things. ;)

With that said though, we DO like the editing - it's a staple of the show and we don't really see it changing too much in the future -- evolving, yes. We def take what you guys say into account, because we DO care what you think. And we'll always look at what we do with a critical eye and question something if it isn't working. At the same time, as creators we want to feel free to experiment and put stuff out there in the way we envision -- that's what makes it fun for us.

And listen, thanks Atreyu - we're glad that you chimed in w/ your thoughts. They're appreciated.

[phatlip12]

Don't like?

Don't watch.

Threads like this make me feel bad for the all people behind these shows. Because they don't hear from the countless people who just simply sit back watch and enjoy. All they hear from are people who nitpick, give mean criticisms and whine, but just KEEP WATCHING... and keep finding new things to complain about.

Don't worry Epic Fu, its just the way of the beast. You haven't really made at Rev3 till a thread is started that insults your mother. Just wait... it'll be there.

Thats actually horrible advice. Feedback is important. If nobody speaks up and points out a shows faults then everyone does what you just said- they don't watch. They want you to watch so its important for people to give feedback.

HOWEVER, the thing to keep in mind is the way that feedback is presented. This thread did a good job at that for the most part. Just keep in mind, theres a difference between giving CONSTRUCTIVE criticism and well...being a dick. ;)

With all that said, I'm glad the hosts are reading and taking everything into consideration. I'm interested to see how the show evolves and look forward to the shows future development. :)

[kilroyperrywinkle]

Constructive criticism is a good thing... Expecting a show thats 100 plus in to change just because you think its got the "Worst Editing..." is another. Worst is a big word to put out there and a childish thread header designed to get attention not to exchange ideas or make suggestions.

I just don't like people who throw out their opinions in the realms of worsts and absolutes. Nothing can be okay, nothing can be good. Its either great or sucks. Its the geek culture to bash something or fanboy it, and I find it childish.

Yes I know they like feedback. But I don't use a Mac so why would I go into an apple store and start telling everyone why their products are the worst? I just don't buy...

I'm a firm believer that you let the business model fix the show. If people don't like it they wont watch it. If the numbers get low enough you start taking suggestions.

Creating a thread for the sole purpose to bash a show you say you don't watch is not constructive, its being a douche and an attention whore.

So I won't feed the thread anymore. Carry on, let me know when you start the Tekzilla thread about how you don't like Veronica's hair parted to the left, even though you don't watch the show.

[phatlip12]

Constructive criticism is a good thing... Expecting a show thats 100 plus in to change just because you think its got the "Worst Editing..." is another. Worst is a big word to put out there and a childish thread header designed to get attention not to exchange ideas or make suggestions.

I just don't like people who throw out their opinions in the realms of worsts and absolutes. Nothing can be okay, nothing can be good. Its either great or sucks. Its the geek culture to bash something or fanboy it, and I find it childish.

Yes I know they like feedback. But I don't use a Mac so why would I go into an apple store and start telling everyone why their products are the worst? I just don't buy...

I'm a firm believer that you let the business model fix the show. If people don't like it they wont watch it. If the numbers get low enough you start taking suggestions.

Creating a thread for the sole purpose to bash a show you say you don't watch is not constructive, its being a douche and an attention whore.

So I won't feed the thread anymore. Carry on, let me know when you start the Tekzilla thread about how you don't like Veronica's hair parted to the left, even though you don't watch the show.

Things aren't always candy coated. The OP used the word worst, big deal. Thats what he thinks, he's not breaking any rules. He mentioned he liked the content but couldn't stand the editing/camera work. He DOES watch the show so he's not doing this for kicks. He likes the show but would like to see changes so its more enjoyable. Worst is a strong word, it gets the point across. It's obviously a common complaint with the show so I really don't see the issue. You're wrong, suggestions were made and people did come up with alternative ideas.

These forums exist for the purpose of discussion whether it be good or bad. Thats what the original poster was doing with this. If you have a problem with that then the ideal forum you have in mind is the fanboyism you considered to be as immature as the "douche attention whore".

Constructive criticism is good but it doesn't have to be candy coted. Again, theres a difference between giving constructive criticism and being a dick. These forums also serve as a suggestion box. What you're saying is pretty much putting the suggesting box out for all to see but not having an opening in the box for people to put their suggestions/criticism.

[phatlip12]

Double post- my bad. ;)

[jmsox00]

This is my first post on these boards and I've been watching Revision3 shows since the beginning. I fail to see the problem in editing for this show. I had never seen or heard of it and just watched the two episodes that have been released through Rev3 so far. I think it's a cool show and nicely done. Zadi does a damn good job being the only host. It's also cool that you guys have a loyal community already and I'm sure it will grow with the added exposure from Rev3.

Back to the editing, however. The multiple cuts did not take anything away from the experience in my opinion and it gives the show a nice feel. It demonstrates that you guys are creative, plus it's obvious the show isn't being done in a bedroom. The background lighting and setup are nice. I'd rather watch it in this format instead of having someone set a camera on a tripod and film a straight-on shot. I do have one suggestion, though it's purely a personal preference: when interviewing people, perhaps reduce or eliminate the cuts. It doesn't have the same feel when someone is being interviewed, but I think it works perfectly when Zadi is by herself. While not a distraction, I would have liked to see an interview with cuts only to change the scene, such as when the senators were being asked about voting on Tuesdays. Keep the movement on the camera and the "strange" angles though.

Best of luck to the crew of this show. I think it has great potential and will be glad to watch future episodes. Lastly, to those complaining, whining, or even giving praise: you instantly lose credibility if your post is riddled with spelling and grammatical errors. That's the way I see it.

[delrio]

I'm no experienced video editor, in fact, I don't do it at all. I don't know anything about the subject, really.

I speak only for myself when I say that I rather enjoy the way it's filmed. It has weak moments, sure, but the style seeming rather A.D.D. is interesting to me. This show has fun.

If they did clean up the cuts a little bit, that would be nice, but honestly, I don't let little stuff get in the way of the show.

[nextgenxbox]

Boy did that Simpsons reference thread title go right over some people's heads...

:)

[stevewoolf]

Hey there -

Steve here, I'm the co-creator of the show and the guy who directs and shoots the show each week.

Like Zadi, I have no problem whatsoever with the criticism. Clearly Atreyu really, really, really doesn't like the style of the show (not just here, but Twitter, too - check the Summize search (http://summize.com/search?q=epicfu) a few rows down, although it looks like he deleted it from his Twitter stream) and that's perfectly fine. He offered his thoughts and some ideas to fix it to his tastes, and we really appreciate the time and thought put into the post.

Speaking for myself, there are so many shows out there that set up the tripod and roll. I look at our show as something different in web shows. Sometimes it might annoy people, sometimes it gets people excited, but people never feel ambivalent about it. That tells me that we're keying in on *something.* Whether it's for good or for bad, I'll take a reaction as opposed to no reaction.

Our show is constantly evolving, that's for sure. If you go back and look in the archives on epicfu.com/episodes, you would barely recognize the show from a year ago. I expect the same thing will happen a year from now, and that's how we keep everything fresh and keep ourselves interested as creative people.

No one needs to feel bad for us -- we are lucky enough to make a living creating our show. As an artist, if you choose to put yourself out there, you have to take the good with the bad. We've been fortunate that the good has vastly outweighed the bad, but the bad wakes you up to things you might not have been paying attention to, you know?

So please, keep any criticism coming. We are always listening and looking for ways to make a better show, and you guys are a huge, huge part of that.

Thanks!

[atreyu]

Like Zadi, I have no problem whatsoever with the criticism. Clearly Atreyu really, really, really doesn't like the style of the show (not just here, but Twitter, too - check the Summize search (http://summize.com/search?q=epicfu) a few rows down, although it looks like he deleted it from his Twitter stream)

First off, thank you both for replying. I PMed Zadi about how I felt about her work and this show.
I gotta say I am sorry for my twitter post. I put it up when I was a little drunk and angry but then took it down when I realized how childish it was. [and frankly didn't believe that].
To everyone else who think I was just trying to be a prick, like I said earlier, I DO like the content of the show- I just don't agree with the way it's presented.
I still stand by my critique, but in retrospect I suppose I could've been a bit more professional
That being said, Steve and Zadi are doing a good thing- Making a podcast that turns revenue and that's more than I can say for myself. And in that I cannot give criticism and applaud them for being a 100+ episodes in and making it to REV3.

[headshot1485]

I like the editing. It's a different internet TV kinda twist. I can only ask for more content!

[the4thnobleman]

I really dig the show as a whole. Zadi has the "it" factor, and I see her doing as well as many other shining stars in the industry. The short length is what gets me, but thankfully this is rectified with having two shows per week. I voiced my gripe a while ago about how I feel like it is a show geared towards geeks with ADD and ADHD. Love the energy, hate the pace. Love the content, but I hate how it all ends up sounding like one long-ass run-on sentence. Allow a breath between cuts and itll likely look and sound better.

Otherwise, keep the content rolling. And ill keep right on watching.