Episode #76 - "WANTED" [Discussion]

[ronxo]

WANTED, starring Angelina Jolie and Morgan Freeman, opened in theaters this past weekend and we dive into the source material, a comic book miniseries by Mark Millar and J.G. Jones.

Watch the episode and tell everyone what you think (http://www.ifanboy.com/podcasts/video/ifanboy_-_episode__76__wanted)

[luthor]

I just bought Wanted a couple weeks ago and I still haven't read it yet. Maybe this afternoon.

A lot has been said about it being a one in done story, but the characters made an appearance in Savage Dragon. They were in issues 127 & 128 and JG Jones actually did a Savage Dragon cover in the Wanted style.

http://www.silverbulletcomics.com/img/product_images/propic-83523-01-full.jpg

[optimus187prime]

Good ep, too short though. I like Wanted (the comic), not blown away by it but I was entertained. The end didnt bother me I took it the way Conor did. I am looking forward to the movie, I have heard good things.

[cloud2218]

I LOVE Wanted so much. I'm a 22 year old nerd, and never once have I felt like getting into comics. There are too many series with too many different episodes(?). But, wanted didn't scare me off. I saw the full book at a Borders (book store) in Texas on my way home from a family trip, and I just had to pick it up.

As Ron (I think) said in this episode, the front page alone was like a punch in the face. Never has a comic hit me like that so well. Not to mention the beauty in every scene from the amazing art style. After reading the first two pages I was hooked. Since then I've been throwing myself into the world of comics.

I can see why most of you didn't like this series, it didn't feel like a normal comic at all. But, for a non-fanboy, it was the perfect read. A great mix between just plain fun, and "Is this too far" moments which kept me on the edge of my seat. It's so great I have yet to WANT to finish it. I just don't want it to be over, knowing that this is the only book there is.

"The only difference between a dream and a nightmare is how big your balls are bitch." -The Fox, come on, how can you not love it?

Edit: I just finished it, since I couldn't go on listening about it without knowing the whole story. I still wish there was more, but the ending, although weird, is absolutely why I loved this book. Not once did it let me forget how close I am to Wesley, how I wanted to join him in losing everything that has and will hold me back. The life of a superhero assassin might not be simple, but it sure as hell doesn't leave any room for chance. I'll always wonder how much better my life might be if I were a little more stone-cold, and a little less of a "World-class-fucking-pussy". But, that's why I waste my time on comics and forums.

[itsbecca]

I think Josh, that it's good that it makes you uncomfortable. I think that speaks to your character. It made me uncomfortable too, but I still enjoyed the book. I think I can find merit on both the level of enjoying the storytelling and on the level of it jilting your paradigm a little. It makes you wonder what or your morality and day to day life activities is dictating by society... and what is dictated by your passions and core. At least that's the sort of thing it made me wonder about. [In case anyone's curious I don't think I'm the raping type. Just a personal preference.]

I am really surprised to hear that Clockwork Orange is a top 5. After this and Stray Bullets I thought you just generally had the can't deal with detestable protagonists thing going on. Clockwork Orange disgusted me to my absolute core. Fanciful music during rape doesn't make rape less shocking... to me it made that scene even more sick and horrifying. If I recall I felt physically ill the first time I watched it. But I wonder if the character facing consequences helped even things out, which [SPOILER?] very much does not happen in Wanted.

[labor_days]

The argument for Wanted applies to Clockwork Orange as well.

Perhaps even more so given that Kubrick wanted (har har) audiences to be disgusted. If one had read the book, one would know Kubrick cuts out the last half that reaffirms the characters assimilation by mechanisms outside their control.

OT? Not at all. Sympathizing with characters is not necessary for good art. It is merely the quickest way to gain fans.

'Assholes', irredeemable assholes even, are every bit as worthy an archetype as any other.

[optimus187prime]

I am really surprised to hear that Clockwork Orange is a top 5. After this and Stray Bullets I thought you just generally had the can't deal with detestable protagonists thing going on. Clockwork Orange disgusted me to my absolute core. Fanciful music during rape doesn't make rape less shocking... to me it made that scene even more sick and horrifying. If I recall I felt physically ill the first time I watched it. But I wonder if the character facing consequences helped even things out, which [SPOILER?] very much does not happen in Wanted.


I felt that way too, the music in Clockwork made me more uncomfortable. For the record down with rape, up with skirts, umm what !!?

[7h0m45]

i read WANTED for the first time in april when the assassins edition HC came out and i freaking loved it.

[darkknightjrk]

First off, I'm of the opinion that "This is my face when I'm fucking you in the ass" is one of the better lines I've heard in fiction, let alone comics, in a long time.

As for the book itself, I throughly enjoyed it--like you guys mentioned, writing-wise, this is probably Millar's best, though I think Kick-Ass might be tied with it soon.

Also, about the mention of the movie--I'm surprised that I've heard very little outcry about this, because from what I've seen of the movie, it really looks like a far departure from the book. From what I've seen of the movie, it looks like they completely took out the supervillain angle and made them into these international assassins who's secretly saving the world. Maybe I'm just putting too much into this, but that assassin stuff has been done so many times, so doing that instead of a pretty original idea seems so backwards to me.

[valoharth]

I re-read it last night and I still found that I didn't like it. I'm pretty much with Josh on this, the way the main character presents himself was quite dissturbing. Maybe it was the guy is a reflection of me at the start of the book and just the thought "Would I do this if I found out my Dad was the biggest bad ass on the planet?" It's a question that you really can't answer honestly, sure I said I wouldn't do it but there is a part of you that says "If I was given absoulute power like this would I be able to say no".

Then theres the whole issue on thinking about what the main character represents, the typical American. When Americans do something they go all out and do things exsivly until they get sick of it. I mean when you find a new coffee shop or place to eat how many times do you visit it in the following months?

Damn, Millar really thought this book out. I guess on the surface this seems like a simple book, but there is some content buried with in. It really is a brilliant book and I really hate that I don't like it. Maybe I just don't like looking at the questions it brings up.

[itsbecca]

I re-read it last night and I still found that I didn't like it. I'm pretty much with Josh on this, the way the main character presents himself was quite dissturbing. Maybe it was the guy is a reflection of me at the start of the book and just the thought "Would I do this if I found out my Dad was the biggest bad ass on the planet?" It's a question that you really can't answer honestly, sure I said I wouldn't do it but there is a part of you that says "If I was given absoulute power like this would I be able to say no".

Then theres the whole issue on thinking about what the main character represents, the typical American. When Americans do something they go all out and do things exsivly until they get sick of it. I mean when you find a new coffee shop or place to eat how many times do you visit it in the following months?

Damn, Millar really thought this book out. I guess on the surface this seems like a simple book, but there is some content buried with in. It really is a brilliant book and I really hate that I don't like it. Maybe I just don't like looking at the questions it brings up.

Exactly why I like this book. Sure I wouldn't rape anyone, but where are my lines... really? And not just hypotheticals. Like Fight Club (as the boys mentioned), it makes you look at your life and think, "Really? Is this what I'm doing?" Maybe it is. Maybe it's not. But it's good to step out and look sometimes.

Still... all that aside I loved the actual plot as well. Great corruption, deceit, supervillainy conflict.

[jaflanagan]

I think A Clockwork Orange had an entirely different point than this, or was at least more artfully presented. I mean, I'm just not ever going to compare Mark Millar to Stanley Kubrick or even Anthony Burgess.

I'm sticking by my guns!

[conorkilpatrick]

I think A Clockwork Orange had an entirely different point than this, or was at least more artfully presented. I mean, I'm just not ever going to compare Mark Millar to Stanley Kubrick or even Anthony Burgess.

I'm sticking by my guns!

I think it's just because you like Kubrick and not Millar. It's the same horribleness by the protagonists.

[jaflanagan]

I know when I'm being goaded.

[itsbecca]

I think A Clockwork Orange had an entirely different point than this, or was at least more artfully presented. I mean, I'm just not ever going to compare Mark Millar to Stanley Kubrick or even Anthony Burgess.

I'm sticking by my guns!

"Burgess described A Clockwork Orange as 'a jeu d'esprit knocked off for money in three weeks, it became known as the raw material for a film which seemed to glorify sex and violence. The film made it easy for readers of the book to misunderstand what it was about, and the misunderstanding will pursue me till I die.' "

[valoharth]

Also another point I wanted (bad pun) to make, along with A Clockwork Orange, Wanted was compaired in the show to GTA IV (I don't remember who said it). Yes both stories revolve around crime, but GTA's main character is like-able. Niko has standards, which in some twisted way makes him relatable. I don't think I could play a game that revolved around Wanted.


Edit: Not to be a gripe, just a counter argument I wanted to make.

[wade-wilson]

Wanted was awesome. It's one of the most entertaining comics I ever read.

I don't understand how being disgusted by the things characters do, makes the book bad. If a writer makes you feel something, isn't that a skill? Hating the characters & hating the book should be two separate things.

If the book was presented as Wesley being a role-model & a good guy, I could understand people getting on thier high horse and sayin' how bad the book was, but these are all evil characters we are getting a look at. No one ever says they're not.

[valoharth]

Wanted was awesome. It's one of the most entertaining comics I ever read.

I don't understand how being disgusted by the things characters do, makes the book bad. If a writer makes you feel something, isn't that a skill? Hating the characters & hating the book should be two separate things.

If the book was presented as Wesley being a role-model & a good guy, I could understand people getting on thier high horse and sayin' how bad the book was, but these are all evil characters we are getting a look at. No one ever says they're not.

Well when the book revolves around a character and you hate that character doesn't it make it a bad book?

But with this book it’s just hard to argue that though because the whole point of the book is for you to hate the main character or in other words hate what you see of your self in the character. That’s the whole point of the book.

Maybe I hate the main character because I hate my self and my position in life or maybe I just hate him because the character really doesn't grow that much, at the start of the book he was whiney and at the end of the book he was whiney just now he killed people. Maybe I didn't like him because I hate Eminem.

I appreciate how every thing is structured in this book, Millar did a fucking fantastic job. I can say its a good book, I'm recommending it to people to read; however, I didn't really enjoy the book. I know if I say the book is good I should like it, but here I am trying to figure out what it is I don't like about it.

[wade-wilson]

Well when the book revolves around a character and you hate that character doesn't it make it a bad book?
Not if the book is well written & entertaining, and you agree that it is.

There is a lot of books/movies I enjoy with anti-hero type characters who are total assholes, because even if they arn't good people, they are pretty damn entertaining. And all of the "offensive" stuff in Wanted is so over the top, it makes me laugh. I'd find it very hard to take it seriously.

[mediamisfit]

I thought that the Wanted comic book was going to be a lot better than it was. I agree on the whole rape issue. Rape isn't really something I wanted to become desensitized to. The same really goes for senseless killing. That's laaaaame unless they are shogun fighters.

[hawaiianpunch]

I did agree with Josh on the whole ugliness of the whole thing. I did stick it out though and reread it prior to seeing the movie the second time this week. It still gets to me where I really don't want to be got, but I do get where Millar is trying to go with it. I just don't want to go there with him anymore. I think the book made it's points pretty clear and early and the repetition is what took me out of it more than the wallowing in horribleness. I always go back and forth on this book and never knowwhere I'll be on it at any given point in time. How's that for wishy-washy!

On another note, I would never put Millar and Kubrick on the same plane. Kubrick did do the whole antisocial misfit thing much better in Clockwork Orange than Millar does in the Wanted comic book. Clockwork was never wall-to-wall mayhem and corruption. It was much slower and hit you in the face at very particular points and made sure that you felt them when they came. While I think there was this post-modern bent to Wanted, in showing what this whole "grim & gritty" comic world could ultimately become if brought to its logical conclusion, the constant pummeling you get defeats the purpose, I think.

A more apt filmic comparison would be Larry Clark, the writer-director of Kids and Bully.

[sugarsickness]

I picked the HC Assassin's Edition of Wanted up one night at my work (I work at a Borders) because I knew it was gonna be a movie later. I opened it up and read that first caption about the really good priced Ikea table and knew I was gonna love it.

I finished the story and I had a retarded smile on my face and I was laughing, thinking "Should I feel insulted? I sort of do. What the hell." Not in a personal way, but it was something that I hadn't felt before after reading a comic.

It is easily one of my favorite books.

[jaflanagan]

It's very possible to appreciate that something is well done, but not enjoy it. A lot of people didn't enjoy this book. I didn't enjoy this book. But I also said it's some of Millar's best work. I can see the skill. It's not an either/or scenario. I just want that to be clear. I don't say it's a bad book. I said it's one of my least favorite. There's a difference.

[zombox]

Great episode, iFanboys.

I actually love Wanted. Millar to me is hit and miss, but with this book he hits.

Conor, I believe, best sums it up in the episode. This series expresses anger and discontent, which we all feel from time to time, with being mundane and normal. The feeling of being trapped by the system. The feeling that nothing you do ever matters, which is actually elaborated on when Wesley becomes a true villain - even doing this foul, exciting things that are bigger than reality feels pointless to him. So, while he is expressing anger at being trapped with his regular life his superhuman life isn't any better. It looks glitizier. It looks flashier. It looks more edgy. Really, though, it just another way of being 'more of the same'. The series embodies the sense of struggle and frustration that is the modern world. The hope and desire to accomplish, but the realization that even the famous and rich rarely mean anything in the grand scheme.

[cormano]

I feel similarly to Josh, but not to the same extreme. I didn't enjoy it, but I don't think I was quite as repulsed as he was. I love the beginning and I thought the ending was awesome. That may be part of the reason I was so disappointed by the rest.

[kilroyperrywinkle]

I read this twice and I don't understand the big deal around it... Its like the first kid in your grade to say the word "fuck"... yeah its shocking, and cool.

But at the end of the day its just a kid saying the word "fuck".

Its not genre defining, its not profound, its just a fucked up antihero given free reign in world that doesnt really work, nor does it seem all that well defined. I give it a "meh" more than anything, there are more shocking, more profound pieces of art out there that are better thought out.

Sorry guys, its not polarizing to me... it was kind of boring.

The art was pretty though...

[paper]

Sorry guys, its not polarizing to me... it was kind of boring.



Nothing can be polarizing to one person. That requires at least two people. Hence poles.

[dave-accampo]

Sympathizing with characters is not necessary for good art. It is merely the quickest way to gain fans.

Haven't watched the ep, and I'm just casually browsing the thread, but this is the best thing that Labor has ever said. Couldn't agree more.

[dave-accampo]

Nothing can be polarizing to one person. That requires at least two people. Hence poles.

What if you're bi-polar?

[paper]

What if you're bi-polar?

I think we all go through a bit of experimentation, maybe in college or...and you know if that's how you want to...what if we went to see a football movie and you can sort of think about it and maybe....

...Ask your mother.

[horatio616]

My reaction was very similar to Josh's. Reading Wanted was one of the most unpleasant reading experiences of my life (and, like Josh, I continued to buy the book despite loathing it). Early Millar books were chalk full of casual violence and this callous attitude that tended to turn me off. His run on The Authority was just as dark and the characters just as unlikeable, but it was a better book than the similar-in-tone Wanted.

[six-gun]

I just finished reading this and... I don't even see the (writing) skill here.

The art is perfection. The writing is just not good. It's that whole bad SNL sketch thing. "Her har, look at what I just did!" There's just no humanity in this book, all of the characters are like robots programed for horridness and nothing else. There's no skill there, he's not going into the mind of these characters, they don't have distinct personalities, they're just all sick sick mouthpieces for whatever controversial ideas Millar wants to throw out.

Also, there's not any rape in GTA, they don't cross that line.

[valoharth]

I just finished reading this and... I don't even see the (writing) skill here.

The art is perfection. The writing is just not good. It's that whole bad SNL sketch thing. "Her har, look at what I just did!" There's just no humanity in this book, all of the characters are like robots programed for horridness and nothing else. There's no skill there, he's not going into the mind of these characters, they don't have distinct personalities, they're just all sick sick mouthpieces for whatever controversial ideas Millar wants to throw out.

Also, there's not any rape in GTA, they don't cross that line.

Yea, it may be that you're too young to get the point of this Six, I know you're a smart guy but the book really relies on you being out of college or high school in a shit job to be on a level to relate to the main character. Its more of an adult power fantasy, where superheros are a boys power fantasy, super villains are adult power fantasies.

I do suggest to give it another read about a month down the road because that was my first reaction to the book. I didn't like it after the second read through but I saw the skill and understood where Millar was coming from that time.

And I agree with you about GTA, the main character is likeable.