another silly car question from the auto deficient.

[rabidbadger]

OK. summer. hot. gas prices stupidly obscene. Air conditioner, in car, runs of battery or gas?

[rabidbadger]

also, thread is just another way to get my darling acidburn back involved, haha. Car threads is like worms on a hook to acidburn. ;)

[masherscf]

In the car, everything runs of the gas in one way or another. Unless you own a Telsa, the electric stuff runs of the battery which is recharged by the motor which runs off gas. Anyhow, the AC is powered by the motor directly. You will use more gas when your using the AC.

[blazes816]

Air conditioners run off gas unfortunately. :(

[phatlip12]

I just recently read it's an urban legend.

[rabidbadger]

I just recently read it's an urban legend.

what's an urban legend?

[phatlip12]

what's an urban legend?

That it wastes your gas. I read it doesn't. It's an urban legend.

[tokenuser]

I read the opposite. Its another item driving the engine needs to drive (via belts). the problem is that people don't know how to use them properly and thats what kills the fuel consumption.

1. Put air on "fresh air".
2. Crack windows.
3. Push hot air out of car.
4. Close windows.
5. Set AC to recirc.
6. Drop fan speed and adjust temp.

Eitherway, its not a huge energy saving not running the AC, something like 1mpg. BUT, make sure the car is serviced, and the belts are tight so that energy transfer is optimal ... keping the car in tune costs money, but can save more $$$ in the long run.

[rabidbadger]

this is all just plain silly, they should just make the air run off battery like the radio, etc, and just like my house has ac that is off electrical. why the heck does ac eat gas? stupid.

[acidburn]

For the most part you should always have the fan on at least the lowest setting to move air in the car.

Even though using AC does burn a little more fuel I'll still use it to stay comfortable in the car. Like Masher said you'll use more fuel because the engine has to work harder while the AC is running. But drive with the windows down at higher speeds and you'll create additional wind drag and burn more fuel that way. Can't win either way,so I say use the AC and stay cool.;)

And Badger's right, I can't resist a car thread. :)

[quix]

Consumer Reports (http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/tires-auto-parts/car-maintenance/get-the-most-mileage-for-your-fuel-dollars-406/)says that it makes a difference but that it's just 1 mpg. I had heard from other sources that it was larger, but they tend to be reliable.

[rabidbadger]

For the most part you should always have the fan on at least the lowest setting to move air in the car.

Even though using AC does burn a little more fuel I'll still use it to stay comfortable in the car. Like Masher said you'll use more fuel because the engine has to work harder while the AC is running. But drive with the windows down at higher speeds and you'll create additional wind drag and burn more fuel that way. Can't win either way,so I say use the AC and stay cool.;)

And Badger's right, I can't resist a car thread. :)

Ok. thanks. all of you.

I usually got the fan on, and window open, no ac. anyway. so not that worried. Just been curious for ages from when I was driving to Albany and back to rochester a few years back

good to know it aint major, but now every penny counts.

[msmags]

Cars should run off garbage or human waste. Yes, the air might stink, but think of how abundant this 'disposable' fuel would be. :p

I don't know....with the price of gas these days I'm willing to try just about anything. :eek:

[gta_bmx2]

this is all just plain silly, they should just make the air run off battery like the radio, etc, and just like my house has ac that is off electrical. why the heck does ac eat gas? stupid.

electricity needs to be generated. it doesn't just generate passively (unless you have solar panels mounted on your car). In a car, electricity is made when the engine turns (by burning a gas/air mixture via internal combustion). The engine's crankshaft turns (which turns the transmission and the axle so the wheels will rotate). The accessory belt is connected to the crankshaft pulley at the front of the engine. And a thing called an alternator is connected to this pulley via the accessory belt. The engine turns, and thus the alternator turns, creating electrical energy. So, one type of energy (gas) is converted to another type (electricity).

Perhaps if a car were completely covered in solar panels, it might generate enough electricity to power the AC, electric windows, etc.. Then the engine would be under less of a load, so your MPG's might go up, but probably not enough to justify the expense and complexity of such a system.

[scoobydiesel]

reason i almost never run the AC...an i enjoy the windows down for the most part...unless im stopped an then the heat attacks me an holds me hostage o_O

[mikec]

scooby, I understand what you mean. For me if the inside of the car isn't oven hot I can deal with open windows. If the humidity is real high, the only option is AC.

Perhaps if a car were completely covered in solar panels, it might generate enough electricity to power the AC, electric windows, etc.. Then the engine would be under less of a load, so your MPG's might go up, but probably not enough to justify the expense and complexity of such a system.

The problem is that the weight of the solar system would add to the weight of the car and negate any savings. If only we could build a car with solar technology built into the outer skin... Maybe some day. Solar energy absorbing paint???

[gimpbully]

Your battery is charged by the engine. That's how cars work (ever notice how your battery lasts oddly longer than most every other battery in your life? Because it's constantly recharged). This is why when your alternator blows, you can't start your car. The alternator directs power generated by the engine to recharge your batter, without it your battery just drains until you don't have juice to turn the starter.

Either way, in the end, all the power in your car is generated by the engine.

Edit: damn, this is a fast moving thread...
this is all just plain silly, they should just make the air run off battery like the radio, etc, and just like my house has ac that is off electrical. why the heck does ac eat gas? stupid.

[comhcinc]

the mythbrusters did a couple of shows on this. and they found that under 55 you use less gas if you keep your windows open over 55, because of drag, you use less gas running the A/C. just goes to prove that really there is almost never a simple answer.

since i tend to drive an 82 rabbit this isn't an issue i deal with alot.

[gimpbully]

*snicker* don't kid yourself, you drive a cabriolet.
since i tend to drive an 82 rabbit this isn't an issue i deal with alot.

[tokenuser]

since i tend to drive an 82 rabbit this isn't an issue i deal with alot.Is that because you can't wind the windows back up, or can't get it over 45? :p

[kronos6948]

The problem is that the weight of the solar system would add to the weight of the car and negate any savings.


I don't think that the car's suspension can handle the weight of 9 planets and the sun combined. :D

[murphy1d]

I don't think that the car's suspension can handle the weight of 9 planets and the sun combined. :D

Hellooo..8 planets! Pluto dont count. That makes all the difference in the world..or out of it. ;)

[shandavio]

Ever drive a hybrid? They run off battery and gas, each taking turns. When you're idling or going slowly, a hybrid automatically switches to battery, and it's not until you get some speed that it switches to the gas engine. The Toyota Prius' AC runs off battery, not gas engine. Other manufacturers have tried other methods (dual belts, etc.).

[mikec]

The engine has be used at some point to run the AC. It may not directly power the AC but as noted before, the engine charges the battery which can run the AC.

If you are crawling in morning rush hour traffic, AC on, headlights and wipers, and radio the engine will come on. The batteries can't supply power forever without being recharged.

[shandavio]

The engine has be used at some point to run the AC. It may not directly power the AC but as noted before, the engine charges the battery which can run the AC.

If you are crawling in morning rush hour traffic, AC on, headlights and wipers, and radio the engine will come on. The batteries can't supply power forever without being recharged.

Starting in 2005, Toyota started powering the ac compressor using the high voltage battery packs necessary for the electric engine of a hybrid car. This requires an electric motor with an integrated inverter and controls to drive the ac compressor. It has been integrated with a high voltage, 3-phase AC motor and control inverter.

Source (http://hybridreview.blogspot.com/2006/07/hybrid-car-air-conditioning.html)

Also see:
Air conditioning is now operated independently of the gasoline engine, an industry first.

Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius#cite_note-27)

[mikec]

I know that braking provides some of the power to charge the battery pack BUT the gasoline engine is the backup to that. If you are crawling along at only 10MPH with the AC on, wipers and headlights on, you will not get much power generated by braking. Not sure how bad your AM or PM rush hours are, but in the DC metro area you can sit and then crawl a few hundred feet and then sit. Not much chance for the regenerative braking to generate any power. As you are sitting there, the batteries are draining, right? There is a draw, lights, wipers and AC so the batteries MUST be getting depleted. If they drop to certain point, then the engine must come on, otherwise there is not enough power to move the vehicle.

[shandavio]

I know that braking provides some of the power to charge the battery pack BUT the gasoline engine is the backup to that. If you are crawling along at only 10MPH with the AC on, wipers and headlights on, you will not get much power generated by braking. Not sure how bad your AM or PM rush hours are, but in the DC metro area you can sit and then crawl a few hundred feet and then sit. Not much chance for the regenerative braking to generate any power. As you are sitting there, the batteries are draining, right? There is a draw, lights, wipers and AC so the batteries MUST be getting depleted. If they drop to certain point, then the engine must come on, otherwise there is not enough power to move the vehicle.

Well of course the engine is used - just not directly. I never claimed the Prius used only battery (although it is a much stronger battery than most cars, I think) - it uses both battery and gas engine. But the AC goes off battery only. The battery may be recharged from the engine going, but that really has nothing to do directly with the AC.

[fishtoprecords]

The problem is that the weight of the solar system would add to the weight of the car and negate any savings. If only we could build a car with solar technology built into the outer skin... Maybe some day. Solar energy absorbing paint???
There is a regular race for cars built by engineering students. The cars are purely solar powered, they run across Austriala.

They are very small, slow, and fragile. Essentially bicycles with a cover that is all solar.

[fishtoprecords]

There have been some recent stories, check Motor Trend, exploring this urban myth. The claim is that the added wind drag of open windows exceeds any savings in gas due to A/C.

They said that in large, non-aero vehicles, such as Pickups or SUVs, the added drag is not an issue until you get to highway speeds. And on some, only at high speed.

For cars, which are aero-designed, the drag from open windows becomes significant at much lower speeds.

In all cases, in stop and go traffic, the wind drag is negligible.

TINSTAAFL
.

[kahunablair]

Well of course the engine is used - just not directly. I never claimed the Prius used only battery (although it is a much stronger battery than most cars, I think) - it uses both battery and gas engine. But the AC goes off battery only. The battery may be recharged from the engine going, but that really has nothing to do directly with the AC.

You are 100% correct that the AC System is set up to run off pure battery. The problem is, that by the time the battery starts to be drained by both the engine and the AC the system switches over to gas. The safety system in the Prius doesn't let the battery get below a certain level, so it starts to recharge it quite quickly. It almost negates any real advantages to having a pure battery driven AC.

All that being said, wait until everyone gets a load of the possible new Prius coming out sometime within the next year. They are switching out the battery system and as of right now, the tests have been getting 90-98 MPGs. Sadly they are having overheating issues, but once they figure it out I'll be a happy boy.

Plus, Toyota is talking about making Prius a seperate carline, ala Scion. You would have a Prius SUV, a Prius Truck, so on and so on. This way they can still have the Hybrid versions of their current cars and the Status Symbol Prius versions as well.

[shandavio]

You are 100% correct that the AC System is set up to run off pure battery. The problem is, that by the time the battery starts to be drained by both the engine and the AC the system switches over to gas. The safety system in the Prius doesn't let the battery get below a certain level, so it starts to recharge it quite quickly. It almost negates any real advantages to having a pure battery driven AC.

All that being said, wait until everyone gets a load of the possible new Prius coming out sometime within the next year. They are switching out the battery system and as of right now, the tests have been getting 90-98 MPGs. Sadly they are having overheating issues, but once they figure it out I'll be a happy boy.

Plus, Toyota is talking about making Prius a seperate carline, ala Scion. You would have a Prius SUV, a Prius Truck, so on and so on. This way they can still have the Hybrid versions of their current cars and the Status Symbol Prius versions as well.

Problem is, Toyota fails at build schedules. To save money, they plan ahead; way ahead. Come to a northern Ohio Toyota dealership and ask for a Prius. You'll get laughed at and asked to sign on a 6-month waiting list. So when they release the new Prius, and the new Camry/Corolla, is anyone even going to be able to get one?

[kahunablair]

They aren't failing at anything. They want to keep people waiting. It helps build up there "street cred".
I worked for Toyota for 3 and a half years, Acura for a year, and now Honda for a few months.

The only time you'll hear them complain about not being able to keep a car in stock is when it's something like a Fit or Yaris. There is so little mark up in those cars that even if they sold them at sticker, they aren't making a whole lot. Those cars are pretty much, "Sell as many as you can".
The Prius', Camry Hybrids, and the Civic Hybrids all fall in the "Let's sell em at sticker!" category. The best argument for that is, "Well we can't keep these in stock. If you don't want to pay the full price, we'll find someone that is."

The Toyota ordering process ensures that. They know exactly what they're doing.

[shandavio]

They aren't failing at anything. They want to keep people waiting. It helps build up there "street cred".
I worked for Toyota for 3 and a half years, Acura for a year, and now Honda for a few months.

The only time you'll hear them complain about not being able to keep a car in stock is when it's something like a Fit or Yaris. There is so little mark up in those cars that even if they sold them at sticker, they aren't making a whole lot. Those cars are pretty much, "Sell as many as you can".
The Prius', Camry Hybrids, and the Civic Hybrids all fall in the "Let's sell em at sticker!" category. The best argument for that is, "Well we can't keep these in stock. If you don't want to pay the full price, we'll find someone that is."

The Toyota ordering process ensures that. They know exactly what they're doing.

I would have to disagree. Working at a dealership, I know just how many people want Priuses. We don't have any. No one does. Toyota isn't sending many our way. You'd think that if your dealers have 6 month waiting lists, you'd want to get some cars out there, right? The build schedules are poorly-made.

[ariastar]

They aren't failing at anything. They want to keep people waiting. It helps build up there "street cred".
I worked for Toyota for 3 and a half years, Acura for a year, and now Honda for a few months.

The only time you'll hear them complain about not being able to keep a car in stock is when it's something like a Fit or Yaris. There is so little mark up in those cars that even if they sold them at sticker, they aren't making a whole lot. Those cars are pretty much, "Sell as many as you can".
The Prius', Camry Hybrids, and the Civic Hybrids all fall in the "Let's sell em at sticker!" category. The best argument for that is, "Well we can't keep these in stock. If you don't want to pay the full price, we'll find someone that is."

The Toyota ordering process ensures that. They know exactly what they're doing.

Supply and demand. You can build as fast as your factory is able and still have more people wanting cars than you can put out. With gas as high as it is (I've seen it at $5.09 already), people are going to scramble for them. Or at least those who can afford them will be.

Of course dealers won't complain about this. The shortage of Pruises in comparison to supply ensures a steady flow of buyers with the dealer having the advantage. "Don't want to pay sticker? I've got a waiting list six months long of people who will pay more than that!!"

[ariastar]

For the most part you should always have the fan on at least the lowest setting to move air in the car.

Even though using AC does burn a little more fuel I'll still use it to stay comfortable in the car. Like Masher said you'll use more fuel because the engine has to work harder while the AC is running. But drive with the windows down at higher speeds and you'll create additional wind drag and burn more fuel that way. Can't win either way,so I say use the AC and stay cool.;)

And Badger's right, I can't resist a car thread. :)

As I once heard, having the windows down throws off the aerodynamics of the car, resulting in more fuel consumption than using the AC in the vast majority of cars.

While ACs run off the battery, the extra work the car is doing overall will use a bit of gas, but usually less than windows down.

[rabidbadger]

Kahunablair, and others, thanks for setting me straight on the AC thing, but the rest of the thread has gone off the rails. You seem to be answering questions no one is asking. about how cars are shipped to dealers. any way, thread derailed, Maybe start a new thread about electric cars.

Mods, OP got his answer, Please close this thread as forum etiquette requires. thanks.

[ariastar]

Kahunablair, and others, thanks for setting me straight on the AC thing, but the rest of the thread has gone off the rails. You seem to be answering questions no one is asking. about how cars are shipped to dealers. any way, thread derailed, Maybe start a new thread about electric cars.

Mods, OP got his answer, Please close this thread as forum etiquette requires. thanks.

Oh how did we ever get by without Shandaivo to enforce rules for us uncultured peoples!!

[rabidbadger]

ummm? Who?

[ariastar]

ummm? Who?

Uuuuhhhhh, the Phantom Shitter?

[popltree2]

You could always buy one of these. It's the Shitter-Mobile. It's what the Phantom Shitter uses to patrol the mean streets of Palo Alto and shit in other people's pants.


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3124/2639308382_195f7ae711_b.jpg

[mikec]

There is a regular race for cars built by engineering students. The cars are purely solar powered, they run across Austriala.

They are very small, slow, and fragile. Essentially bicycles with a cover that is all solar.

There have been races like this in the US as well.(I think) The problem with my idea is that we would have a standard four door sedan powered by solar. Maybe those experimental designs, like those you mentioned, will provide the engineers with some data that can be used in the future.

[rabidbadger]

why isn't this thread closed yet? No modes on tonight?

[rabidbadger]

dont' get me wrong. great discussion. just deserves it's own thread.

[shandavio]

dont' get me wrong. great discussion. just deserves it's own thread.

Then just change the topic title.