Who wears short shorts? New Comics Discussion for 08/06/2008 wears short shorts!

[conorkilpatrick]

Tell us what you thought of the books of the week!

Here's what Josh (http://www.ifanboy.com/users/Josh/comics), Ron (http://www.ifanboy.com/users/Ron/comics), Conor (http://www.ifanboy.com/users/Conor/comics), and Gordon (http://www.ifanboy.com/users/Gordon/comics) are reading.

This week's Pick of the Week:

http://www.ifanboy.com/comics/dc_comics/final_crisis/3_(of_7)/cover-large.jpg

From here on out, it's SPOILER-O-RAMA.

Don't forget to rate and review the books over at iFanboy.com (http://www.ifanboy.com/comics)!

[kahunablair]

Bravo on the title, sir. Bravo.

[luthor]

So does anyone else wish Paul Dini was writing the main R.I.P. storyline?

He's made Hush an interesting and compelling character, and I've never cared about the character before now.

[cammyknoxville]

Final Crisis #3 - What the hell is going on???

[gobo]

Final Crisis #3 - Evil Won

And no I don't wish Dini was writing all of RIP but I'm definitely enjoying his writing of DC. Although the art SUCKED

[hank41]

this is a Morrisson story. its a story that only Morrisson could handle. Dini is just different

[luthor]

I really liked the art on Detective. Nguyen is quickly becoming one of my favorite artists.

[luthor]

this is a Morrisson story. its a story that only Morrisson could handle. Dini is just different

Morrison's great, don't get me wrong. I just think that he's in outerspace and the death of the Batman should be a lot more earthly bound.

[mikegraham6]

Dude, Final Crisis. FUCKING EPIC!

[dave-accampo]

I wasn't blown away by Final Crisis #3, but I thought it was good. It definitely had a few 'Wow!' moments.

There's still something funky with the way Morrison is cutting together the scenes. The super-hero draft should be epic, but it feels rushed. I'm not sure. He's definitely compressing a LOT into the story -- it just takes some getting used to.

Regardless -- the story is definitely feeling epic now. That's a good thing. Presumably now Evil has Won, and the rest of the series will be about Good finding a way to come back. So I have high hopes for what comes next.

[labor_days]

Final Crisis #3.

Holy Fucking Shit.

[luthor]

The super-hero draft should be epic, but it feels rushed.

When DC's government puts a call out to it's heroes, shit gets done quick. Kinda made me think Morrison was taking a rip at Marvel's Civil War storyline in the most subtlest of ways.

[hank41]

Morrison's great, don't get me wrong. I just think that he's in outerspace and the death of the Batman should be a lot more earthly bound.

that's a great point. dini does that really well

[dave-accampo]

When DC's government puts a call out to it's heroes, shit gets done quick. Kinda made me think Morrison was taking a rip at Marvel's Civil War storyline in the most subtlest of ways.

I noted this in the Crisis thread, but it wasn't so much that "it gets done quick" as that it doesn't really have any bearing on what comes next.

It happens over four pages. It's a fairly small group... and then Evil wins.

Now, if they plan to go back and show what the draftees did BEFORE Evil won, then I just need to be patient. But we end the issue after Evil won, and... well, presumably these drafted heroes have all been brought down. Which makes the passage seem a bit pointless in the context of THIS issue (can't judge the entire story yet).

[labor_days]

But we only know evil won because the Flashes ran into the future. The draftees don't know that evil has already won at the time the JLA/JSA calls for them.

[dave-accampo]

Well that's my point. Evil HADN'T won when the draft was assembled. Then there was a fight with Wonder Woman and a email virus was unleashed. That's presumably when Evil Won, right? Now we cut forward a few weeks into the future and the Flashes find a post-apocalyptic Earth.

I ASSUME this is where we pick up next issue, based on solicitations.

And all of that's fine, but it made the whole draft seem needless.

We'll see. I'm only judging it on this issue -- the entire story has yet to unravel.

[neb]

And all of that's fine, but it made the whole draft seem needless.


An excellent point, but also may explain why it was so quick. Morrison may not have wanted to build up to some epic draft only to have it fizz out later on. The fanboys would be raving mad!! (See: Secret Invasion :))

Final Crisis this week was the bomb digs, but I was confused at some parts. The parts I got: fucking awesome. I noted this in my review (http://www.ifanboy.com/reviews/Neb/dc_comics/final_crisis/3_(of_7)).

My POW of the week goes to The Boys #21 (http://www.ifanboy.com/reviews/Neb/comics/boys/21). It was amazing and I'm so glad I stuck with the series up to this point.

And before Six dies, Criminal 2 #4 was bloody brilliant. A most excellent book.

[neb]

So does anyone else wish Paul Dini was writing the main R.I.P. storyline?

He's made Hush an interesting and compelling character, and I've never cared about the character before now.

Agreed. I'm really enjoying his take on the character. Also, Nguyen's art is great. I love his pencils. I almost get a Mignola vibe from them...

[horatio616]

You've got to be kidding me with this Final Crisis shit, Grant Morrison. Focus, man. Too many plotlines that have yet to intersect. G-list heroes popping in and out of nowhere. Only 4 more issues to go but I'm getting off this gobbeldygook train.

Glad somebody seems to be enjoying it though.

[labor_days]

Well that's my point. Evil HADN'T won when the draft was assembled. Then there was a fight with Wonder Woman and a email virus was unleashed. That's presumably when Evil Won, right?
No. Darkseid won in issue #1 of FC. He beat Orion, shattered the Source and fell from Heaven backwards through the multiverse.

The heroes don't know they lost. A long time ago.

At the time of the draft, the heroes are afraid, desperate and uncertain. Which is the tone being set by the events. As everything seems a bit creepy, dark and secretive. Nobody really knows what's going on and they are scared.

And all of that's fine, but it made the whole draft seem needless.
I think you are expecting the draft to be a bigger deal than what it is. The JLA/JSA are desperate and hurting for answers. They called for heroes in a time of panic.

[six-gun]

For ME, Criminal and Final Crisis didn't even play in the same ball park.

Final Crisis was getting a single in a coach's-pitch little league game while Criminal was hitting a grand slam in the world series

[bgavino]

Just to say it again Holy Shit Final crisis was amazing I can not wait for the next issue of this series. Like Conor mentioned in his review though I wonder if the co-artist thing is going to hurt the book? I mean the writing is so strong though I doubt it, but I guess we'll find out.

Did anyone else read The Hawkman Special? I am not reading the whole Holy war mini series, and maybe that is why I am kind of lost, but it seems like Starlin is kind of ret-conning what Johns did with the character, at least that is what I got from it. It was ok I just didn't really get what Starlin was going for.

Another book that I liked that hasn't been mentioed was Spider Man Loves Mary Jane. I hadn't read this book before but jumped on because Terry Moore and I was pleasantly surprised. I really enjoyed this book. I was kind of a nice happy alternative to all he dark and dreary Batman RIP Final Crisis stuff. The art was solid and the writing was good. It was just a fun light book that I enjoyed. What did any one else who read this think?

Later Bryan

[six-gun]

And before Six dies, Criminal 2 #4 was bloody brilliant. A most excellent book.

Heh...

I'm over my Brubaker fanboy thing where I freaked if everyone didn't LOVE one of his books. It's the fact that I think he's the best comic book writer of all time that makes me special! ;)

[labor_days]

SM <3 MJ would have been my POW if not for FC #3's inclusion of Streaky the Supercat.

[neb]

Speaking of Terry Moore, did anyone else pick up Echo #5. I did a review (http://www.ifanboy.com/reviews/Neb/comics/terry_moores_echo/5) and was curious what others thought.

Long review, short: I thought the art was kind bad (not up to his usual standards) and the pacing was crazy, light speed fast.

[bgavino]

Heh...

I'm over my Brubaker fanboy thing where I freaked if everyone didn't LOVE one of his books. It's the fact that I think he's the best comic book writer of all time that makes me special! ;)

Never read Criminal before but picked it up because of the show here and I just finished the issue and I was blown away by how great this book is. Just like Captain American and Daredevil Brubaker does not let me down. Everything he does is amazing and I agree he is the best comic book writer of all time!

[six-gun]

Everything he does is amazing and I agree he is the best comic book writer of all time!

Solidarity :)

[horatio616]

Sigh. I'm sticking to my guns and trade-waiting on Criminal. I'd buy the trades anyway so no sense paying twice!

Also, The Authority are actually not assholes in this new series!

[labor_days]

Speaking of Terry Moore, did anyone else pick up Echo #5. I did a review (http://www.ifanboy.com/reviews/Neb/comics/terry_moores_echo/5) and was curious what others thought.

Long review, short: I thought the art was kind bad (not up to his usual standards) and the pacing was crazy, light speed fast.

No way man. Echo was awesome. I will agree that the series has been an astonishingly quick read since it began. I fly through the issues, but love it to pieces in the process.

[darkknightjrk]

On the complaints of the rushed draft and quick defeat in FC, I think that was the point--Darkseid has control of the universe, they lost before they began. I guess with all the heroes down we were supposed to be expecting some big shit coming down but no--just a virus spread by Wonder Woman and the internet and it's all over for Earth.

So yeah, I enjoyed it.

[neb]

No way man. Echo was awesome. I will agree that the series has been an astonishingly quick read since it began. I fly through the issues, but love it to pieces in the process.

I can see that, but I need a breather. Also, I should have specified more, but I thought his figures were as good as usual, but the action scenes did not look so hot. I don't know...maybe I just wasn't in the mood for this book today. I'll have to look at it again later in the week.

This doesn't mean I'm on your ignore list now, does it?:o

[horatio616]

More people should read The Authority: World's End #1. Check out my review on iFanboy if you want to know why.

[dave-accampo]

On the complaints of the rushed draft and quick defeat in FC, I think that was the point--Darkseid has control of the universe, they lost before they began. I guess with all the heroes down we were supposed to be expecting some big shit coming down but no--just a virus spread by Wonder Woman and the internet and it's all over for Earth.

So yeah, I enjoyed it.

That's not really what I was getting at though. What I'm getting at is that it's not really necessary in the book. Take out those four pages and nothing changes.

Also: To Labor: I'm not sure we agree about WHEN Evil Won. I took it as being when the physical virus and the email virus were activated. You seem to think Evil Won when Darkseid beat Orion. I'm not so sure about that. There's a skip month between issues 3 and 4 because that's supposed to be "when Evil won" -- I believe that's how it was promoted in the press. So I'm reading it that way.

Thusly, "Article X" seems like a cool idea but one thrown into the mix unnecessarily.

[dave-accampo]

I think you are expecting the draft to be a bigger deal than what it is. The JLA/JSA are desperate and hurting for answers. They called for heroes in a time of panic.

It's not so much that I WANT it to be big and epic in scope, as much as it is that G-mo is playing it like it's a big deal in those few pages. Yet, the JLA and JSA have a larger REGULAR roll call than the assembly on the final page. So he added weight to it with scenes from Shazam and Green Arrow, and then the whole thing just disappears because the plot rolls along in an entirely different fashion.

I stand by what I said: it's not a BAD scene, but it falls flat in the rollercoaster that G-Mo is building. This was STILL an enjoyable comic book for me. But I'm not gonna say it's perfect. The draft wasn't the only scene I thought felt flat. Just one example. HOwever, the good bits still outweigh the bad.

[esophagus]

So, Six, has there ever been a time where Criminal came out and you wouldn't have said it was the best thing out that week? Perhaps if it ever overlapped with Captain America? :rolleyes:

[humphrey-lee]

So, Six, has there ever been a time where Criminal came out and you wouldn't have said it was the best thing out that week? Perhaps if it ever overlapped with Captain America? :rolleyes:

To be honest, I don't think there's been a time yet where it came out and it wasn't the best thing I read that week either. There's a reason for the acclaim. I think maybe at the time it was just getting started there were occasions it was hitting the same time as Fell. That's all I can think of. I have no doubt in my mind it'll be the best thing of mine this week. My stack overall looks pretty alright, and FC was a "whatever" comic for me where I didn't dislike it, but really couldn't give much praise or acclaim to except for the art. It just... kind of exists...

[labor_days]

I can see that, but I need a breather. Also, I should have specified more, but I thought his figures were as good as usual, but the action scenes did not look so hot. I don't know...maybe I just wasn't in the mood for this book today. I'll have to look at it again later in the week.

This doesn't mean I'm on your ignore list now, does it?:o
Hm. I don't think Moore is an "action" kind of artist. Don't find the action scenes are bad, per se. It is clear though, Moore is no Hitch when it comes to doing splash page explosions and such.

Stroytelling wise, I though Echo was fantastic and Moore has yet to let me down in that regard. In fact, there is a huge improvement in Moore's sense of pacing and plot compared to the earlier issues of SiP in Echo.

Top notch work.

Also Neb, you bet your ass it means you are on my ignore list now. :p

[labor_days]

Also: To Labor: I'm not sure we agree about WHEN Evil Won. I took it as being when the physical virus and the email virus were activated. You seem to think Evil Won when Darkseid beat Orion. I'm not so sure about that. There's a skip month between issues 3 and 4 because that's supposed to be "when Evil won" -- I believe that's how it was promoted in the press. So I'm reading it that way.
But that is impossible. Darkseid won in the war between good & evil in the celestial heavens, before Final Crisis. The whole reason there is a crisis now is because Darkseid won the battle against Orion and the Source. Everything in the fiction points this out. Darkseid broke the power of the Source and cast down the New Genesis gods in the process. Leaving no force left in the universe to stop him.

We now know Darkseid fell backward through the multiverse. Meaning that what happened in SSoV was in the past during Infinite Crisis. Which is where Darksied solidified his power on Earth to launch his final attack now. The Anti-Life Equation is Darkseid's fully. Darkseid and his retinue have no equal left and they are unbound by the Source's duality.

Whatever happens between the time of the draft and Wonder Woman spreading the Morticulous (sp) virus is just the last push for Darkseid's dominance on Earth.

It has already been reveled Darkseid has engineered many things concerning the force of evil on Earth over the past 3 years. From the Injustice Society to the missing kids, to the Crime Bible, the Gotham gang war, the Clock King, the avatars of the Four Horsemen on Oolong Island, et cetera.

The dude won years ago.

Thusly, "Article X" seems like a cool idea but one thrown into the mix unnecessarily.
We disagree on the necessity part. I read those pages as the JLA/JSA marshaling their forces in desperation. And assumed the assembled heroes on that one page was not the be-all-end-all of the heroes that answered the draft. Knowing full well there are a lot of superheroes in the DC world.

Those four pages showed some pretty important things; 1. the big guns are down, 2. the remaining heroes are afraid, 3. their cause was hopeless and they didn't even know it in time.

So yeah, I felt they were necessary in communicating the sense of doom and dread that a God of Universal Evil brings to the table when overtaking the freewill of all beings.

[paper]

Criminal > All

I'd prefer more of a decompressed Final Crisis at this point. Just by a little. The wow moments didn't carry as much weight as they could have, IMO.

[kahunablair]

More people should read The Authority: World's End #1. Check out my review on iFanboy if you want to know why.

I picked it up for some weird reason. I haven't read an Authority book in a loooong time, but figured why not when I saw it.

[optimus187prime]

Sigh. I'm sticking to my guns and trade-waiting on Criminal. I'd buy the trades anyway so no sense paying twice!
Me too, I think it reads better for me in that format. Plus it is cheaper, since like you said, I know I am going to buy it anyway.
Also, The Authority are actually not assholes in this new series!
I wasnt impressed at all. There are some cool concepts but so far it hasnt grabbed me. I liked the scene with Apollo but other than that I cant even remember much. I wasnt happy with the art either, it felt muddy, and too sketchy for my taste.

[kwok_talk]

Me too, I think it reads better for me in that format. Plus it is cheaper, since like you said, I know I am going to buy it anyway.

I've been reading in trades too, but I'm pondering switching to issues just to get the backup material that they don't stick in trades. For those reading in issues, is the backup material worth it?

[optimus187prime]

I've been reading in trades too, but I'm pondering switching to issues just to get the backup material that they don't stick in trades. For those reading in issues, is the backup material worth it?

Dammit I didnt know I was missing the back material in trade.

[bgavino]

The latest issue of Criminal was the first that I've read but I didn't notice a back up story. May-be I missed it.

[gobo]

It's the text stuff at the back of the issue

[hank41]

im waiting for the trade on criminal also. it just reads better like that.

but let me tell you, it took some patience.

[bigyanks]

I dont know if anyone else see it but doesnt the cover of final crisis look like Donna D'erico?
http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/1140776.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF1939057D9939C83F106DEC89206F50E5263 5A5397277B4DC33E
http://www.ifanboy.com/comics/dc_comics/final_crisis/3_(of_7)/cover-large.jpg

[hank41]

at least it doesn't look like JG Jones again

[dave-accampo]

Criminal > All

I'd prefer more of a decompressed Final Crisis at this point. Just by a little. The wow moments didn't carry as much weight as they could have, IMO.

I agree with this.

[labor_days]

Jones uses photo references. To me the Supergirl cover looked a lot like Elisha Cuthbert. Especially in bone structure and figure.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b396/dragonwish/Elisha%20Cuthbert/ylil-elisha_cuthbert01edit.jpg

Edit: And yes, I bought both covers for Final Crisis. I feel no shame.

[bigyanks]

you know i just felt really old right now and im only 25.

[dave-accampo]

But that is impossible. Darkseid won in the war between good & evil in the celestial heavens, before Final Crisis. There is nothing in Final Crisis #1 to lead me to believe this. That's my point.

Remember, I'm only really reading this series. So, a lot of what you're asking me to believe about "when" Evil Won doesn't really make sense to me in the context of the series. You may well be right, but the way the PLOT is laid out, it looks to me like the world ends at the end of this issue.

[dave-accampo]

(cont'd because Rev3 doesn't like my long posts)

Maybe it's a semantic thing, too. I can accept that "Evil won" and that Earth doesn't know it yet. That's fine. But... it doesn't MEAN anything to the reader until we see the effect on Earth. All the stuff happening in the first three issues is the build up to "the end of the world" (so to speak). But it's BUILD-UP. We're not in the end-times yet (as the reader). It's not until that final page with the Flashes in the post-apocalyptic future that WE, the reader, really understand that Evil won.

[dave-accampo]

Also:

Yeah, we just disagree about the nature of the whole Article X scene. I think it was a cool bit, but he either needed to give it MORE weight or excise it completely. It stands out to me, as-is.

[labor_days]

It most likely is her. Cuthbert is a popular target for Supergirl cosplay photo touching. I bet Jones google the same image as everyone else.

http://i33.tinypic.com/2ug2ide.jpg

[optimus187prime]

you know i just felt really old right now and im only 25.

I remember her, thought I dont think it helps your case as I am 25 also.

[denmmurray]

I picked it up for some weird reason. I haven't read an Authority book in a loooong time, but figured why not when I saw it.

I saw this and it really piqued my interest. I loved the Authority when I picked it up in trades.


*on a side note...I just noticed I've become a "senior member"...do I get to use the executive bathroom now?

[labor_days]

There is nothing in Final Crisis #1 to lead me to believe this. That's my point.

Remember, I'm only really reading this series. So, a lot of what you're asking me to believe about "when" Evil Won doesn't really make sense to me in the context of the series. You may well be right, but the way the PLOT is laid out, it looks to me like the world ends at the end of this issue.
Sorry, Dave. That is is not entirely true.

There is a page which says outright in FC #1 that Darkside won the war in heaven. We see the death of Orion thrice! And everything else in the series talks of Darkseid winning the celestial war and preparing the way for the Anti-Life Equation to subjugate the Earth.

The stuff that happened outside FC; Teen Titians, Birds Of Prey, Seven Soldiers Of Victory, Death Of The New Gods, 52, Countdown, JLA/JSA, Gotham Underground, The Five Lesson Of Blood, the Sinestro War, et cetera- all lay out the details of how we got here.

Regardless, FC does state Darkseid won some time ago.

Yeah, we just disagree about the nature of the whole Article X scene. I think it was a cool bit, but he either needed to give it MORE weight or excise it completely. It stands out to me, as-is.
Fair, fair.

But again, I think the point of those pages was getting the sense of dread and hopelessness of the heroes' cause through to the reader.

[paper]

I've been reading in trades too, but I'm pondering switching to issues just to get the backup material that they don't stick in trades. For those reading in issues, is the backup material worth it?

It depends, really. I eat the stuff up because I'm a nerd for pulps and crime fiction these days. I totally geeked out this week because the interview in the back was all about the Hard Case Crime series of prose books and I'm a big fan of that movement.

[dave-accampo]

Sorry, Dave. That is is not entirely true.

OK, fair point. We're TOLD that Darkseid won. I get that. But it goes back to my semantics point... Darkseid won = Evil won. You're right. But if I tell you today that the Devil won, well... it won't really mean anything to you until the Earth opens up and hellspawn issue forth and take over the world. So, I'm looking at this way: Evil Won = The End of the World as We Know It. So, Earth (and the reader) doesn't really FEEL that "Evil Won" until the end of this issue.

Of course, I'm just belaboring a minor point. Really doesn't matter overall -- but I think that it illustrates that our differing POVs probably made us each read the issue with a different emphasis, which is why the whole draft scene evoked different responses.

[labor_days]

OK, fair point. We're TOLD that Darkseid won. I get that. But it goes back to my semantics point... Darkseid won = Evil won. You're right. But if I tell you today that the Devil won, well... it won't really mean anything to you until the Earth opens up and hellspawn issue forth and take over the world. So, I'm looking at this way: Evil Won = The End of the World as We Know It. So, Earth (and the reader) doesn't really FEEL that "Evil Won" until the end of this issue.
Oh I don't know about this. From the get go Final Crisis felt very creepy to me. As though something wasn't quite right with reality as we know it in the DCU. Morrison and Jones did a great job setting the mood of the series.

I recall being shocked on first reading FC #1 as to how muted and dark everything seemed. I went in with the thought of Morrison doing bright and shiny JLA. But it was clearly a series aiming for the opposite in tone. The heroes felt and looked defeated from the start.

All the conspiracy of the Monitors and the missing kids only added to the unease. When Orion tells Turpin, "Heaven...Cracked...Broken. He is in all of you! Fight!" a chill ran up my spine.

Of course, I'm just belaboring a minor point. Really doesn't matter overall -- but I think that it illustrates that our differing POVs probably made us each read the issue with a different emphasis, which is why the whole draft scene evoked different responses.

I don't want to sound as though your argument is falling on deaf ears, Dave. I just think the draft angle was intended as a means of showing the heroes' fear. Not necessarily the prelude to a battle or a plot point in of itself*.

*But this does make me ask why the scene with Ollie & Dinah was necessary. We shall see I suppose.

[neb]

I've been reading in trades too, but I'm pondering switching to issues just to get the backup material that they don't stick in trades. For those reading in issues, is the backup material worth it?

The back material is always excellent as it gives you great recommendations for books and movies that are in the genre. I always enjoy reading it.

[paper]

You guys always fight!

When Dave and Labor fight I always feel like I've done something wrong. Do you guys fight because of me? Is it my fault?

[cam-]

*on a side note...I just noticed I've become a "senior member"...do I get to use the executive bathroom now?

Now you get to get coffee for the elite members. :)

Gratz!

[denmmurray]

Now you get to get coffee for the elite members. :)

Gratz!

Wonderful...so I'm essentially an intern now...

[kahunablair]

I take a large coffee, milk, and two spenda.

You guys always fight!

When Dave and Labor fight I always feel like I've done something wrong. Do you guys fight because of me? Is it my fault?
Yes. It's all your fault. I think you should run away. If you weren't here, everyone would be happier!

[kwok_talk]

The back material is always excellent as it gives you great recommendations for books and movies that are in the genre. I always enjoy reading it.

Sweet. I might just jump on issues now!

[denmmurray]

Sweet. I might just jump on issues now!

Plus, you get the anticipation of what's going to happen in the latest issue and enjoying the comradeship of reading issues the same time as everyone else and then talking about them.

[labor_days]

You guys always fight!

When Dave and Labor fight I always feel like I've done something wrong. Do you guys fight because of me? Is it my fault?
I shall always bring the brilliant Light of Truth to Dave "Blackheart" Accampo's dark, evil lies.

Labor_Days does not support evil or people named Dave Accampo. Which is the same thing really. But ya'know, semantics.

[dave-accampo]

Oh I don't know about this. From the get go Final Crisis felt very creepy to me.
I'll agree with you there. I think we're just talking about subtle differences. Yes, it's very "End of Days" from the beginning, and I'll accept the idea that Evil has already won, but I still stand by the fact that there's a huge SHIFT at the end of this issue where something happens to everyone on Earth. This is where everyone realizes what it MEANS when Evil wins.

(also, I believe G-Mo has said this in interviews about the structure of the series.)

So, we're just looking at it from varying degrees, and this is all just the backdrop to the main point we disagreed on -- the whole "draft" scene.

[dave-accampo]

You guys always fight!

When Dave and Labor fight I always feel like I've done something wrong. Do you guys fight because of me? Is it my fault?

It's just shades of difference, Paper. It's not your fault. He's got his opinion, I've got... you know, taste. And standards.


(although, admittedly Conor walked up to me at Bar Basic and greeted me with, "Dave Accampo! The guy with the worst taste in comics!" So, that oughta stoke Labor's fires...)

[bigyanks]

i dont know if this was mention yet, But Sword #10 was pretty badass this week. im just hoping that this fight fucking ends next month.

[horatio616]

Wonderful...so I'm essentially an intern now...

But you get to wear this great t-shirt...! On your dime, of course.

[dave-accampo]

Fraction continues to tear it up with Invincible Iron Man, BTW. Haven't seen anyone mention that yet. It's a good, very solid series. It's the most even-handed take on Iron Man since Civil War. He's a guy you can root for, but it still deals with modern continuity.

[labor_days]

I'll agree with you there. I think we're just talking about subtle differences. Yes, it's very "End of Days" from the beginning, and I'll accept the idea that Evil has already won, but I still stand by the fact that there's a huge SHIFT at the end of this issue where something happens to everyone on Earth. This is where everyone realizes what it MEANS when Evil wins.

(also, I believe G-Mo has said this in interviews about the structure of the series.)

So, we're just looking at it from varying degrees, and this is all just the backdrop to the main point we disagreed on -- the whole "draft" scene.

Well, yes. Obviously, the jump into future the Flashes take shows us the end result of Darkseid's maneuvering. But if there was no one to stop him before his plan came to ultimate fruition, then the dude totally won.

It's like when the Skrulls attacked. Earth's heroes had lost a long time ago. They were infiltrated, compromised and now they doubt themselves. The Avengers lost before the Baxter building warped in on itself or the Skrull stormtroopers landed in NYC.

although, admittedly Conor walked up to me at Bar Basic and greeted me with, "Dave Accampo! The guy with the worst taste in comics!"
Conor said that? I need to take him off my ignore list then.

[denmmurray]

But you get to wear this great t-shirt...! On your dime, of course.

Of course...however, I may just make my own t-shirt from iron ons...

[conorkilpatrick]

(although, admittedly Conor walked up to me at Bar Basic and greeted me with, "Dave Accampo! The guy with the worst taste in comics!" So, that oughta stoke Labor's fires...)

It was said with love!

But, seriously, you do. :)

[deadspace]

House of Mystery was once again excellent this month.

[dave-accampo]

But, seriously, you do. :)

Son of a--!

[dave-accampo]

House of Mystery was once again excellent this month.

I'm looking forward to reading this. I've been enjoying it, but I'm still not entirely sure about it. I like the art, LOVE the covers, but I'm struggling with the balance between the ongoing narrative and the short stories contained within. They don't seem to always complement one another.

It's hard for me to see how the shorts actually enhance the main plot. And maybe they aren't supposed to. Or maybe I'm just not seeing the connection. But either way, it often feels like an "intermission" when we go into the short story of the issue. This may not be a bad thing, I'm just still not used to it.

[dave-accampo]

Conor said that? I need to take him off my ignore list then.

I'm sure he'll be thrilled.

:p

[dave-accampo]

Wow, Criminal was so good this week. Damn. I've only read, like, three comics from my stack, but it's gonna be hard to beat this as the POW. I really like the cartoonist's story -- I almost wished he wasn't ALSO a former criminal at first, but it just works so damn well by the end of the issue. Really good stuff.

[kahunablair]

Did Ennis just use 9-11 too make The Boys more hardcore?

I'm normally not the one to call controversy, but that is fucking disgusting. What an asshole.

[deadspace]

I'm looking forward to reading this. I've been enjoying it, but I'm still not entirely sure about it. I like the art, LOVE the covers, but I'm struggling with the balance between the ongoing narrative and the short stories contained within. They don't seem to always complement one another.

It's hard for me to see how the shorts actually enhance the main plot. And maybe they aren't supposed to. Or maybe I'm just not seeing the connection. But either way, it often feels like an "intermission" when we go into the short story of the issue. This may not be a bad thing, I'm just still not used to it.

I was feeling that way until I read #3. For some reason that issue changed me from feeling it was a 'pretty ok comic' to a really awesome comic. I didn't like the short stories much either but again that changed, and the one in #4 I simply loved!

Did Ennis just use 9-11 too make The Boys more hardcore?

I'm normally not the one to call controversy, but that is fucking disgusting. What an asshole.

Damn, I'm trade-waiting for the boys but whenever I hear of controversy I need to read it.

[kahunablair]

I doubt it's actually going to turn into a controversy. It's just really friqqin' sad that he felt the need to write that in there.

It's handled really, really poorly. Look at Ex Machina. It handled that entire situation one way. It was a serious, dark tale. This is just him saying, "Look how hardcore and crazy I am!"

[neb]

I doubt it's actually going to turn into a controversy. It's just really friqqin' sad that he felt the need to write that in there.

It's handled really, really poorly. Look at Ex Machina. It handled that entire situation one way. It was a serious, dark tale. This is just him saying, "Look how hardcore and crazy I am!"

I don't think this is so. In Ex Machina, The Great Machine is only able to stop one of the planes, thus giving the books a different post 9-11 tone. In The Boys Ennis postulates that what if we had believed all the rumors and had a chance to stop it.

Of course, his story involves the JLA of his universe fucking up the whole thing. I don't think it was Ennis being hardcore. I think it was Ennis trying to get us to hate the heroes as much as Butcher and his crew do.

[six-gun]

OK, so I've rethought things:

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a161/Sn4ke22/oldone.jpg

[six-gun]

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a161/Sn4ke22/oldone2.jpg

[euchre0]

Ah, the double edged sword that is the internet. On the one hand I am thankful that I can read reviews and arguments to better understand Final Crisis #3. On the other hand, I feel dumb because I needed said reviews and message board arguments to understand so now I feel dumb. At least I liked Criminal as much as everyone else that read it. This story felt safer...tamer. Of course, there is the impending doom feeling, but it hasn't been as harsh as the previous stories. Interesting.

[kwok_talk]

OK, so I've rethought things:

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a161/Sn4ke22/oldone.jpg

Sweet! Then today, I am officially cool.

Went to my new LCS and picked up the last copy of Criminal. I've been slow to jump on the bandwagon, but I had a blast with the latest issue.

And Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane was really good too.

[deadspace]

I can't decide if my POW is Criminal or House of Mystery

[labor_days]

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a161/Sn4ke22/oldone2.jpg

This must be what being Dave Accampo feels like everyday.

Make it stop. Please.

[cam-]

Sweet! Then today, I am officially cool.

Went to my new LCS and picked up the last copy of Criminal. I've been slow to jump on the bandwagon, but I had a blast with the latest issue.

And Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane was really good too.

I've been cool since issue one :p

Hey, it got me to rent and watch the original Get Carter...The back matter makes the issues worth it fo sho.

[six-gun]

This must be what being Dave Accampo feels like everyday.

Make it stop. Please.

bwah ha ha ha ha

[gungadin]

And Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane was really good too.

You can't say that enough... I loved this issues... Holy God...

[denmmurray]

You can't say that enough... I loved this issues... Holy God...

I'm picking that one up. I love Moores art and I'm curious about how his style will fit in a superhero world.

[gungadin]

I'm picking that one up. I love Moores art and I'm curious about how his style will fit in a superhero world.

He only drew the cover, but wrote the whole thing... Holy damn it was so insanely well written... Fantastic...

[dave-accampo]

This must be what being Dave Accampo feels like everyday.

Make it stop. Please.

What, haven't you heard? I read Criminal in issues.

I'm cool.

[six-gun]

What, haven't you heard? I read Criminal in issues.

I'm cool.

Yeah, the tide has turned!

[dave-accampo]

I thought Buffy The Vampire Slayer was better this issue (and honestly had some GREAT lines in it), but it's still not as good as the last story arc.

It was also a bit confusing. It's been a long time since I've read Fray, and I don't know who that woman was who was with Fray at the beginning. I actually thought it was Buffy and that the story had jumped forward to a point where Buffy had been in the future for a little while. Later, it was made clearer when Buffy and Fray meet. The issue improved greatly from that point on. The meeting of Buffy and Fray was really good, I thought. The Dark Willow reveal was pretty cool as well.

Oh, and Dawn the Centaur stole the whole issue with her "ride me" line. heheheh.

[denmmurray]

Outside of this weeks issue, I went and found a copy of Green Arrow and Black Canary #1...


...


I love this book...I love it, love it, love it. The art is beautiful and the characters are so well written. I hate myself that I didn't pick this up sooner.

[cam-]

Outside of this weeks issue, I went and found a copy of Green Arrow and Black Canary #1...


...


I love this book...I love it, love it, love it. The art is beautiful and the characters are so well written. I hate myself that I didn't pick this up sooner.

Sadly the art team changes and the book loses a little steam. First 4-5 issues though? Awesome.

[denmmurray]

Sadly the art team changes and the book loses a little steam. First 4-5 issues though? Awesome.

I flipped through the latest issue and it still didn't look too bad...one thing I really love is how familiar all the characters are with each other. Batman calls Ollie G.A. at one point and the panels where everyone is giving their condolences to Black Canary...Winick can write a mean comic.

[cam-]

YEah Norton's doing a fine job of emulating Chiang, but that's the thing, it's just not quite the same.

Wait till you get to the "Clark...clark...clark" moment in a later issue. Probably my favourite moment of the series to date.

Sadly some Brit with a magic mace and no interesting character qualities shows up soon after and the story bogs down. I'm hoping it picks up again soon, cause I agree Winick does the relationships well, people seem like genuine friends.

[six-gun]

Wait till you get to the "Clark...clark...clark" moment in a later issue. Probably my favourite moment of the series to date.


When I interviewed Chiang at Heroes Con, he said that was his favorite scene.

[gobo]

I think Criminal was my POW also... but Iron Man, FC, Buffy and the Boys were all great also.

[bgavino]

I think Criminal was my POW also... but Iron Man, FC, Buffy and the Boys were all great also.

Final Crisis 3 would be my POW. I freaking loved that issues and I can't wait for the next one.

Boys was awesome and I think Ennis is really starting to hit his stride with the series. I really liked the last two issues and I think, even though it took a while, he's finally starting to get into the meat of the story. I just loved how the "heroes" completely screwed up. One of the most screwed up things in this book was when Homelander rips open the door of the plane and all you see is the feet of the little kid like flying by. I am really starting to like this book and the last two issues have been great after a long string of like five or six bad issues in my opinion. Hopefully Ennis and Robertson keep it up.



Later Bryan

[gungadin]

Two books left... Criminal and Buffy, in that order....

Final Crisis was damn good.

[cammyknoxville]

You know what I really enjoyed? I really enjoyed Iron Man: Viva Las Vegas #2 this week. Favreau is weaving quite the fun story for Iron Man.

That's my POW for sure.

[bigyanks]

I can't decide if my POW is Criminal or House of Mystery

that book literally made me fall asleep and miss my train stop. so i say Boo to that book this week.

[cam-]

Criminal? or House of Mystery?

[gungadin]

I thought Buffy The Vampire Slayer was better this issue (and honestly had some GREAT lines in it), but it's still not as good as the last story arc.

It was also a bit confusing. It's been a long time since I've read Fray, and I don't know who that woman was who was with Fray at the beginning. I actually thought it was Buffy and that the story had jumped forward to a point where Buffy had been in the future for a little while. Later, it was made clearer when Buffy and Fray meet. The issue improved greatly from that point on. The meeting of Buffy and Fray was really good, I thought. The Dark Willow reveal was pretty cool as well.

Oh, and Dawn the Centaur stole the whole issue with her "ride me" line. heheheh.

The girl at the beginning is Fray's older sister, who is a police detective if I remember right...

Other than that you're spot on here, although I was predicting the Dark Willow reveal from about page five... It's better than the last one, but still not pick worthy...

[six-gun]

Anyone else think that Jonah Hex was terrible this week? Completely and utterly out of character this was.

Also, I'll make a couple of comments on Final Crisis #3 that aren't trolling.

1. I agree with Dave, this issue felt scattershot. There were a lot of great scenes, and unlike Secret Invasion the story here is moving at a breakneck pace. But I don't think that Morrison feels compelled to actually write scenes. Rather, he's just giving us vignette after vignette that each have enough substance for a single issue and yet aren't developed. I would have read an entire issue about the superhero draft, SHADE in Bludhaven, or Supergirl and her cat, but instead I'm getting these scenes ripped away from me as soon as I'm getting emotionally invested in them.

2. However, this issue was EPIC, despite my nit-picking complaints of this one issue in particular, Final Crisis is very easily on track to be my favorite comic book event ever. The sense of doom and foreboding that Conor wrote about in his review is truly palpable.

3. This book has some of Morrison's best actual comic book writing in it. The scenes with Ollie and Dinah, Hal and the Alpha Lanterns and Supergirl were actually really good scenes that stood alone as being excellent outside of their role as building on the story as a whole. This is my biggest problem with Morrison, he's oftentimes so focused on the story that he leaves the character interactions on the back burner.

4. Seriously, JG Jones art on this book is the best the comic industry has seen in YEARS. I'm not seeing Conor's complaints about the pencils being a bit rough at all. They seem flawless to me.

[gobo]

The girl at the beginning is Fray's older sister, who is a police detective if I remember right...

Other than that you're spot on here, although I was predicting the Dark Willow reveal from about page five... It's better than the last one, but still not pick worthy...I was kind of hoping it was Drusilla

[deadspace]

that book literally made me fall asleep and miss my train stop. so i say Boo to that book this week.

which one? either way you must be insane cos both were awesome :p

[gungadin]

2. However, this issue was EPIC, despite my nit-picking complaints of this one issue in particular, Final Crisis is very easily on track to be my favorite comic book event ever. The sense of doom and foreboding that Conor wrote about in his review is truly palpable.

I was listening to it while listening to some of the ominous Joker themed music from the Dark Knight on my iPod... Total sense of doom and foreboding...

4. Seriously, JG Jones art on this book is the best the comic industry has seen in YEARS. I'm not seeing Conor's complaints about the pencils being a bit rough at all. They seem flawless to me.

I noticed a ready difference. Jones is good, damn good, but you can go back and see the other stuff he drew, particularly in issues one and two, and this was just so not up to that par...

[gungadin]

I was kind of hoping it was Drusilla

It woulda been throwbacky, but I don't think it would have felt earned... If it was Spike who went to the future, weight, but Dark Willow feels a whole hell of a lot more special than if Drusilla showed up...

Like Oz and Riley. They've announced that both of those characters were going to show up again... But they shouldn't show up until we can really get that gut punch of them showing up... You know?

[optimus187prime]

Anyone else think that Jonah Hex was terrible this week? Completely and utterly out of character this was.

Yoda is that you?

[cammyknoxville]

Anyone else think that Jonah Hex was terrible this week? Completely and utterly out of character this was.

Yeah, I thought it was kinda disappointing this week.

[gungadin]

Last week I bought the first three issues of the new Guardians of the Galaxy... Just thought I'd bring it up here...

Good Lord this is a fun book... Oh man... I had so much fun reading this... I was a bit confused by the beginning, but by the end of the first issue I felt totally fine. Great book... Great rec from the people who rec-ed it and the iFanboys not named Conor :p

[labor_days]

Manhunter is good. Like really good.

Gaydos' art is just wonderful. What a treat.

[neb]

Manhunter is good. Like really good.

Gaydos' art is just wonderful. What a treat.

Solidarity. I've been really loving this since it came back, and Gaydos is freaking awesome. I thought the surprise (about her son) was excellent, and I was curious as to where it is going.

[cam-]

You know, sometimes when I read Criminal I miss Sleeper.

[six-gun]

You know, sometimes when I read Criminal I miss Sleeper.

I wake up every morning missing Sleeper

[cam-]

The superhero crime book based on a Woody Allen movie. I love it.

(also, that's not true, except for the love part)

[dave-accampo]

Manhunter is good. Like really good.

Gaydos' art is just wonderful. What a treat.

We disagree on many things, Labor.

We do NOT disagree on this.

I've always enjoyed Manhunter, but Gaydos on Manhunter has really elevated this book to "what a treat" levels. :)

[labor_days]

Dave, if I didn't hate your guts so much-- I would kiss you.

[labor_days]

Holy shit. Did anyone pick up Final Crisis Director's Cut?

That shit was fucking amazing.

Can I pick a reprint of a book that came out 2 months ago as my retroactive POW for this week?

[kahunablair]

What was added, Labor?

[labor_days]

Jones' uncolored pencils (amazing), Morrison's full script (precise, thoughtful) and commentary by Morrison and Jones breaking down each page.

It's like 60 pages.

[kahunablair]

Hmm, I will have to check that out. Thanks for the heads up, sir.

[labor_days]

It actually enhances the series seeing the ideas Morrison and Jones have about things. We see the issue first told via pictures only; the full issue is presented without dialogue or coloring. Just Jones' pencils. Then you get the issue as text only; again, the full script with Morrison's notes to Jones is laid out. Then, then. We get the full issue a third time with the finished panels and sketches side by side and Morrison and Jones commenting on each panel in turn.

So amazing to see how much is thought through. Even the choice to light Darkside in a specific way was considered and has a reason for being.

[labor_days]

Reign In Hell was effin' brilliant!

I love catching up on my stack.

[neb]

It actually enhances the series seeing the ideas Morrison and Jones have about things. We see the issue first told via pictures only; the full issue is presented without dialogue or coloring. Just Jones' pencils. Then you get the issue as text only; again, the full script with Morrison's notes to Jones is laid out. Then, then. We get the full issue a third time with the finished panels and sketches side by side and Morrison and Jones commenting on each panel in turn.

So amazing to see how much is thought through. Even the choice to light Darkside in a specific way was considered and has a reason for being.

This sounds like heaven...

[labor_days]

I hope against hope, Linda Danvers will be part of DC once again.

Giffen, don't you let me down.

[six-gun]

It actually enhances the series seeing the ideas Morrison and Jones have about things. We see the issue first told via pictures only; the full issue is presented without dialogue or coloring. Just Jones' pencils. Then you get the issue as text only; again, the full script with Morrison's notes to Jones is laid out. Then, then. We get the full issue a third time with the finished panels and sketches side by side and Morrison and Jones commenting on each panel in turn.

So amazing to see how much is thought through. Even the choice to light Darkside in a specific way was considered and has a reason for being.

oh man, I'm a sucker for this stuff

how much? $$

[labor_days]

$5 or something.