Your Unpopular Opinion!!!

[hank41]

Why don't we just pretend that never happened? Like "Secret Wars 2".

i say that we collectively embrace the awfulness of Secret Wars dues

[diabhol]

"Fast Times at Ridgemont High" is one of the worst movies ever made. It's not funny, the skanks in it aren't particularly attractive, and no one in the entire film can act worth a damn.

[hank41]

damn, that's harsh. very valid, but i don't agree

[optimus187prime]

damn, that's harsh. very valid, but i don't agree

I definitely do not agree as well. I love that movie.

[racemccloud]

"Fast Times at Ridgemont High" is one of the worst movies ever made. It's not funny, the skanks in it aren't particularly attractive, and no one in the entire film can act worth a damn.

That probably WILL be a very unpopular opinion! I actually have never seen it, and have no real interest in it, to be honest.

[jon_samuelson]

"Fast Times at Ridgemont High" is one of the worst movies ever made. It's not funny, the skanks in it aren't particularly attractive, and no one in the entire film can act worth a damn.

Did you just call Phoebe Cates "not particularly attractive"? Them, sir, are fightin' words.

[gobo]

I was not entertained by Fast Times in the slightest, but I don't think the cast can't act or that the skanks are ugly.

[esophagus]

I don't think the cast can't act of the skanks are ugly....

What?

[deadspace]

the skanks in it aren't particularly attractive

umm, excuse me?

[gobo]

...

What?

Should have been "or" not "of"

[brandeezy]

"Fast Times at Ridgemont High" is one of the worst movies ever made. It's not funny, the skanks in it aren't particularly attractive, and no one in the entire film can act worth a damn.

You must have really high standards, 'cause Phoebe Cates circa 1982 was HAWT! Jennifer Jason Leigh is kinda plain in this, but that was what the role demanded.

"Fast Times" is a great movie, right up there with "Dazed and Confused". Cameron Crowe at least attempted to create real teenagers, as opposed to every other teen flick with the "nerds", "jocks", etc.

[hank41]

You must have really high standards, 'cause Phoebe Cates circa 1982 was HAWT! Jennifer Jason Leigh is kinda plain in this, but that was what the role demanded.

"Fast Times" is a great movie, right up there with "Dazed and Confused". Cameron Crowe at least attempted to create real teenagers, as opposed to every other teen flick with the "nerds", "jocks", etc.

woah! i totally forgot that Cameron Crowe wrote that. awesome.

and i agree with you here, it's a classic

[ryan79]

"Caddyshack" didn't do a thing for me. The only funny parts, to me, were of Bill Murray. Other than that...it's pretty meh.

[jon_samuelson]

"Caddyshack" didn't do a thing for me. The only funny parts, to me, were of Bill Murray. Other than that...it's pretty meh.

Holy God almighty. Some people just understand perfectly the idea of this thread. To not like Caddyshack is entirely un-American.

*edit* It's damn near inhuman. I think this dude may be a robot, sent by the communists to infiltrate our ranks, and defile us from the inside.

[diabhol]

Also has anyone seen the 80's teen sex comedy The Last American Virgin. Great movie with a somewhat depressing ending but awesome still the same.

No movie with an abortion in it gets to be called a comedy unless it's made by Troma or something.

[diabhol]

You must have really high standards, 'cause Phoebe Cates circa 1982 was HAWT! Jennifer Jason Leigh is kinda plain in this, but that was what the role demanded.

"Fast Times" is a great movie, right up there with "Dazed and Confused". Cameron Crowe at least attempted to create real teenagers, as opposed to every other teen flick with the "nerds", "jocks", etc.

When it comes to women in movies, yes, I have high standards. :)

"Fast Times" is crap, "Dazed and Confused" is crap, and indeed, most teen movies are crap. They're rarely funny, appear to make no attempt to reflect anyone's actual high school experience, and even in the 21st century, they tend to be only *slightly* more ethnically diverse than a Klan rally.


(All that said, I do enjoy the first four John Hughes-directed movies. *shrug*)

[ryan79]

I think this dude may be a robot, sent by the communists to infiltrate our ranks, and defile us from the inside.

That's what she said.

[conorkilpatrick]

No movie with an abortion in it gets to be called a comedy unless it's made by Troma or something.

Well, that's just factually untrue.

[timmywood-]

No movie with an abortion in it gets to be called a comedy unless it's made by Troma or something.

That is why i love The Last American Virgin. It starts off like a cheesy crappy teen sex comedy knock off. Three friends all trying to get laid but towards the end of the film they start to experience the consequences of sex as well. A girl gets pregnant, the boys get crabs, and it ends on a downer kind of like life does sometimes. It looks cheesy and not super funny but something about really stood out to me.

plus there is an abortion in Fast Times at Ridgemont High as well and that's considered a comedy.

[racemccloud]

Unpopular opinion:

"Friends" is television genius. One of the best written and performed television shows of all time.

[conorkilpatrick]

Unpopular opinion:

"Friends" is television genius. One of the best written and performed television shows of all time.

That's not an unpopular opinion.

[racemccloud]

That's not an unpopular opinion.

Maybe it's a love it or loathe it thing... but as many people as I know who love "Friends", I know just as many people who think it's terrible and awful and to blame for the fall of the sitcom. To me, it's the gold standard of the genre.

"Friends" is great. It's my sitcom crack.

[jklimp]

I like U2, everyone always makes fun of me for liking U2.

[conorkilpatrick]

I like U2, everyone always makes fun of me for liking U2.

They must be under 28-30.

[bonemachine]

U2 were good until they became a charity orginization who played music on the side. I'm not saying that charity work is bad I just wonder what happened to the music.

[thenextchampion]

U2 is an overblown and overhyped band. Without looking at a website name me any of the other members of the band except for Bono. Who, by the way is a hippie and is the most annoying man on the planet...Thank you South Park for the laughs.

[conorkilpatrick]

U2 is an overblown and overhyped band. Without looking at a website name me any of the other members of the band except for Bono. Who, by the way is a hippie and is the most annoying man on the planet...Thank you South Park for the laughs.

Bono
The Edge
Adam Clayton
Larry Mullen Jr.

You're too young to understand when they were the biggest band in the world.

Note that that I didn't say greatest, just the most popular.

[thenextchampion]

Bono
The Edge
Adam Clayton
Larry Mullen Jr.

You're too young to understand when they were the biggest band in the world.

Note that that I didn't say greatest, just the most popular.

Okay I'm 19 not 9, and I know when and why they were a good band. It's the same stuff they've been giving us since the late 80's. Boring.

(thanks for taking my other part of the comment as well...Wish I had that power to take off your comments as well)

[conorkilpatrick]

(thanks for taking my other part of the comment as well...Wish I had that power to take off your comments as well)

Start your own website/internet community.

[thenextchampion]

Start your own website/internet community.

Drunk on power much?

[conorkilpatrick]

Drunk on power much?

Just not a big fan of Hitler jokes.

[thenextchampion]

Exactley, it was a joke....It's not like I did a salute or say something terrible about the people he tortured and killed. It was a joke on this thread, and I thought the little edit I did at the bottom would clarify that it was a joke

But if you wanna delete someone's comment without a thought in mind, then go right ahead.

[jklimp]

U2 is an overblown and overhyped band. Without looking at a website name me any of the other members of the band except for Bono. Who, by the way is a hippie and is the most annoying man on the planet...Thank you South Park for the laughs.
Is knowing the members of a band really that important to liking their music? If that's how you feel then I am sorry that instead of spending your time listening to music you have to spend some of it knowing everything about a band. I don't need to name all the members of a band to like them(although in u2's case I can but only because I have a lot of their cd's, I won't bother because someone already listed them) i just need to be able to connect with their music, and frankly I think the Joshua Tree is one of the best albums to come out in the 80s, with the obvious exception of London Calling, but that's just my opinion. I understand that you don't like U2's music, and that's cool with me. The fact that you dislike them however doesn't make them overblown or overhyped. I don't mean to flame, but the idea of something being overblown or overhyped is so immature. "A lot of people like something, and I don't like it, obviously that means that they are overblown". Seriously, music is amazing because it is something that people everywhere can connect to, and if there is music you can't connect to that is totally understandable, but rather than trying to put down other peoples musical tastes or worrying about whether or not you dislike music that a lot of people like, you could find a band that you do like, because music is a lot more enjoyable when it is about finding songs and artists that you like, and not about worrying whether or not a lot of people like a band you don't like. I don't mean to start some sort of flame war with you or anything, I just don't like when people say something is overblown, because all they are really saying is that they don't like it, but they feel like they are cool or special if it's overblown.

[racemccloud]

U2's talent and influence is undeniable. They've survived and outlive their "hype". When a band is as successful and as established as they have been for as long as they have been, "hype" becomes a non-factor. You don't survive as artists for as long as they have by simply being products of celebrity. I'm not even a huge U2 fan, but I certainly respect their longevity, innovation and artistry. I'd be hard pressed to think of another "made it big in the 80's" music act that is as relevant and artistically vibrant as U2 still is.

As for Bono... I'm not going to say whether or not I agree with the man's politics, but I also respect somebody who takes their celebrity and tries to use it to better the world. He could easily sit around and be a 24 hour rock star, and whether or not you agree with his philosophies, he's certainly trying to put his stardom to some use. If you don't like what he has to say, you don't have to listen to him.

[racemccloud]

Just not a big fan of Hitler jokes.

Now, I don't know the particular joke in question, but "The Producers" is chock full of very funny Hitler jokes.

However, The Next Champion, I think most people around these forums appreciate the efforts the guys take (Conor being the most visibly active moderator) in making sure this community remains open to new members an not inappropriately offensive towards anyone. This results in some comments getting taken down from time to time. I'd rather have active moderators than an ungoverned community that's left to the wolves to fend for themselves.

Finally, "Friends" is still awesome. Better than "Heroes".

[gobo]

Finally, "Friends" is still awesome. Better than "Heroes".
I agree.

[diabhol]

Well, that's just factually untrue.


Which is why I posted it here, as opposed to "The Factual Truth" thread. :)

[miyamotofreak]

Friends is better than Heroes, agreed.

Heroes is bad. I watch for the lulz. If it were a movie it'd be laughed at and critically panned. It gets unfairly excused because its alongside other crap TV shows.

Burnout Paradise is the best videogame of the year so far.

Diggnation sucks.

Digg sucks.

Reddit sucks.

The high school portion of USM is bad.

Almost all story telling renditions of school are bad especially high schools.

[kndoubleu]

I like almost all of what JMS writes. Unless it's an insane retcon handed down by editorial (Osborn/Stacy twins, OMD)... or an insane retcon that isn't (ridiculous alterations of Spidey's powers), or... okay, you know what? I like JMS when he's not insane. Overall, I do, in fact, like his storytelling, and I think he portrayal of Spiderman and the Fantastic Four are some of the better character interpretations we've had of them, especially his early work on ASM.

I like the Mila relationship in DD. (I do, however, openly admit that if I hadn't read the series all at once, it might have gotten to me seeing the same depressing cycle every month for a few years..)

I like all the Secret Invasion Flashbacks in the Avengers titles.

I don't think X-Men 3 was worse than Ghost Rider... or Spider-Man 3.

My favorite Final Fantasy game to re-play is 9.

Zach Braff is overrated. (Donald Faison carries Scrubs)




And lastly, and perhaps most embarrassingly...... I'm a Knicks fan.

[racemccloud]

Friends is better than Heroes, agreed.

Damn skippy.

The high school portion of USM is bad.

Bite your tongue! (Although it is not an entirely accurate portrayal of high school life, I'll admit.)

Almost all story telling renditions of school are bad especially high schools.

Although, to be fair, this is probably true. Although I will say this... I have mentored/participated in playwriting workshops with high school students, and many of them were of the opinion that adults can not write high school/teen characters, simply because they are adults. I disagree, on the grounds that A.) most adults were once teenagers, and although the styles and slang have changed, the basic high school wars remain the same from generation to generation; and B.) high school students/teens may have the upper hand when it comes to first hand experience in writing those scenarios, but they are often too close to the situation about which they are really writing to write well about that situation, and they do not yet have the experience/skill as writers to really detach the stories they want to set in those high situations from their own real lives. What you end up with then is thinly veiled drama therapy, and nobody wants that.

Yes, that was a massive tangent. Sorry. Yes, I think you can make a strong case for your original point about the USM high school scenes not being terribly accurate. But I disagree with the idea that all storytelling renditions of school (especially high school) are bad. Maybe they're not realistic renditions, but, you know what? Neither are most fictional renditions of the workplace, or corporate office, or twenty-something New Yorkers' apartments. That's why it's called "fiction". It ain't real. Reality gets bent for the sake of the story, and that's how it should be.

[racemccloud]

I like almost all of what JMS writes. Unless it's an insane retcon handed down by editorial (Osborn/Stacy twins, OMD)... or an insane retcon that isn't (ridiculous alterations of Spidey's powers), or... okay, you know what? I like JMS when he's not insane. Overall, I do, in fact, like his storytelling, and I think he portrayal of Spiderman and the Fantastic Four are some of the better character interpretations we've had of them, especially his early work on ASM.

Completely agree, although that is indeed an Unpopular Opinion around these parts.

I like all the Secret Invasion Flashbacks in the Avengers titles.

I like most of them. I have to admit, that last "New Avengers" with the "House of M" flashback... had no discernible point. But I've really enjoyed most of them.

I don't think X-Men 3 was worse than Ghost Rider... or Spider-Man 3.

I actually really liked Spider-Man 3. Not loved, but I really liked it.


And lastly, and perhaps most embarrassingly...... I'm a Knicks fan.

Dude... wow. Although, I can share in your pain a little bit; I'm a Mets fan. Yeah, I know. Hopefully the Knicks won't be a complete embarrassment this year. It could be worse, though. I mean, how mad must Cubs fans be right now? I feel for them. I really do.

[esophagus]

many of them were of the opinion that adults can not write high school/teen characters, simply because they are adults. I disagree, on the grounds that A.) most adults were once teenagers, and although the styles and slang have changed, the basic high school wars remain the same from generation to generation
I think the problem a lot of times is that an adult (Not just adult, really. I think up until about 30 or so you are excluded in this scenario) writes for what they think a teenager would want, whereas a teen or young adult is writing for what they want.

But your second point is valid. Amateur writing, and writing strictly from experience, can bog down the quality no matter how good of a hold a teenager has on what high school really is.

[timmywood-]

Is knowing the members of a band really that important to liking their music? If that's how you feel then I am sorry that instead of spending your time listening to music you have to spend some of it knowing everything about a band. I don't need to name all the members of a band to like them(although in u2's case I can but only because I have a lot of their cd's, I won't bother because someone already listed them) i just need to be able to connect with their music, and frankly I think the Joshua Tree is one of the best albums to come out in the 80s, with the obvious exception of London Calling, but that's just my opinion. I understand that you don't like U2's music, and that's cool with me. The fact that you dislike them however doesn't make them overblown or overhyped. I don't mean to flame, but the idea of something being overblown or overhyped is so immature. "A lot of people like something, and I don't like it, obviously that means that they are overblown". Seriously, music is amazing because it is something that people everywhere can connect to, and if there is music you can't connect to that is totally understandable, but rather than trying to put down other peoples musical tastes or worrying about whether or not you dislike music that a lot of people like, you could find a band that you do like, because music is a lot more enjoyable when it is about finding songs and artists that you like, and not about worrying whether or not a lot of people like a band you don't like. I don't mean to start some sort of flame war with you or anything, I just don't like when people say something is overblown, because all they are really saying is that they don't like it, but they feel like they are cool or special if it's overblown.

Thanks for saying that. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it isn't good. I really dislike U2 but I understand why people like them. It's ignorance in itself to claim that your opinion is the right one and everyone else is wrong. I feel like this happens all the time now a days with everything music, movies, theatre, politics. Nobody ever askes "well I didn't enjoy that very much tell me why you enjoyed it" and then actually listen to what that person says it is always "(insert something here) Sucks and everyone who likes it is crazy!" People like things for different reasons.

[paper]

The difficulty here is that there is no one universal high school experience. Sure, we have some overlapping experiences, but there are so many variables, and it's such a pivotal point in our lives, that any rendition is going to ring at least a little false. We tend to be as specific as possible. When that happens, you contradict someone else's specific experience. I don't think it's impossible to write good high school drama in fiction. I do think people need to be more understanding that results may vary.

In closing, Freaks and Geeks.

[hank41]

In closing, Freaks and Geeks.

word.

[brandeezy]

Is knowing the members of a band really that important to liking their music? If that's how you feel then I am sorry that instead of spending your time listening to music you have to spend some of it knowing everything about a band. I don't need to name all the members of a band to like them(although in u2's case I can but only because I have a lot of their cd's, I won't bother because someone already listed them) i just need to be able to connect with their music, and frankly I think the Joshua Tree is one of the best albums to come out in the 80s, with the obvious exception of London Calling, but that's just my opinion. I understand that you don't like U2's music, and that's cool with me. The fact that you dislike them however doesn't make them overblown or overhyped. I don't mean to flame, but the idea of something being overblown or overhyped is so immature. "A lot of people like something, and I don't like it, obviously that means that they are overblown". Seriously, music is amazing because it is something that people everywhere can connect to, and if there is music you can't connect to that is totally understandable, but rather than trying to put down other peoples musical tastes or worrying about whether or not you dislike music that a lot of people like, you could find a band that you do like, because music is a lot more enjoyable when it is about finding songs and artists that you like, and not about worrying whether or not a lot of people like a band you don't like. I don't mean to start some sort of flame war with you or anything, I just don't like when people say something is overblown, because all they are really saying is that they don't like it, but they feel like they are cool or special if it's overblown.

I think the point that Champion was making is that there is a phenomena that happens in some bands where a key person engulfs and totally overshadows the band. In the case of U2 this is obviously Bono. His persona is so big that the rest of the band become almost bit players. A band shouldn't be about one person' s mission statement- it should be a group of musicians pulling their talents to from a cohesive statement. In the case of U2, it seems that the music is besides-the-point

The mere fact that a lot of people like something doesn't mean that product is worth while. People bought and raved about pet rocks, 50 Cent albums, etc.

Also, if everyone is telling you that so-and-so group is the best thing since sliced bread and you can't go anywhere without hearing about said group and you don't care for said group's music, you have every write to push back and tell the world that they are wrong and that they have shitty taste in music.

[brandeezy]

Diggnation sucks.

Digg sucks.



God yes

[conorkilpatrick]

Also, if everyone is telling you that so-and-so group is the best thing since sliced bread and you can't go anywhere without hearing about said group and you don't care for said group's music, you have every write to push back and tell the world that they are wrong and that they have shitty taste in music.

Not on this forum you don't.

[brandeezy]

Not on this forum you don't.

???Really?

[conorkilpatrick]

???Really?

Yes, really. We do politeness here. Someone tells someone else they have shitty taste in... well, anything, they get bounced.

[paper]

At the Baltimore con I told Conor I got an iPod Touch for my birthday. He asked to see it. I handed it to him and he crushed it. He then pulled a U2 edition iPod from his pocket and gave me that.

"But this is from 2004."
"You'll take it and you'll like it."
"How many of these do you have?"
"Eight."
"Including the one you just gave me?"
"No."

[conorkilpatrick]

What's funny is that I don't even really like U2 all that much. But I was a teenager in their heyday, so I understand how popular they were at their peak.

[brandeezy]

I think you reading my post a tad more literal than I meant.

[jklimp]

The mere fact that a lot of people like something doesn't mean that product is worth while. People bought and raved about pet rocks, 50 Cent albums, etc.

I don't think you understood what I meant. The fact that a lot of people buy something means only two things. It means it is worth while for them and not worth while for you, it's not anybodies duty to decide what is worth while for anyone but themselves. If people are listening to 50 cent and enjoying it, then it is worthwhile, and you shouldn't try to bring people down just because you don't like it.

[bonemachine]

I don't think X-Men 3 was worse than Ghost Rider... or Spider-Man 3.



Rewatched Spiderman 3 awhile back and bar the awfulness that was how they handled Venom, I had a great time. The thing is that despite all the marketing about "The Darkness Within" and all the edgy trailers it's really (however untientionally) a piss-take of Dark, brooding superhero movies. The infamous scene where he's strutting down the street had me and my brother in stiches. Take it with tongue-in-cheek and it's great fun.

This is a bit of an unpopular opinion between my friends, I really like the Kid A/Amensiac era of Radiohead.

[brandeezy]

I don't think you understood what I meant. The fact that a lot of people buy something means only two things. It means it is worth while for them and not worth while for you, it's not anybodies duty to decide what is worth while for anyone but themselves. If people are listening to 50 cent and enjoying it, then it is worthwhile, and you shouldn't try to bring people down just because you don't like it.

That was just one point of several that I brought up.

I'm not sure where you're getting this view that people are trying to dictate music tastes to other people. If I have an opinion about a music act that is contrary to yours- are you suggesting that I keep my opinion to myself? It runs both ways: if you can go on and on and blather about something, then I can be contrary if I don't agree.

If someone is being harassing, then that is something else entirely.

[timmywood-]

This is a bit of an unpopular opinion between my friends, I really like the Kid A/Amensiac era of Radiohead.

As do I.

[gobo]

I stand by the Bends as their best album.

[jklimp]

That was just one point of several that I brought up.

I'm not sure where you're getting this view that people are trying to dictate music tastes to other people. If I have an opinion about a music act that is contrary to yours- are you suggesting that I keep my opinion to myself? It runs both ways: if you can go on and on and blather about something, then I can be contrary if I don't agree.
.
I have no problem with you saying you dislike U2, but if you are going to be contrary, you should at least state your opinion intelligently rather than just saying that you don't like them, and a lot of people do, and that their lead singer is a jerk. If you don't like them talk about their music, my problem with your statement wasn't that you said you don't like U2, it was that instead of actually saying why you disliked them or engaging in any sort of intelligent debate, you wrote them off as overhyped rather than actually saying anything of substance. If you disagree with something, at least disagree intelligently, otherwise you are wasting everyone's time.

[paulsharkey]

This is a bit of an unpopular opinion between my friends, I really like the Kid A/Amensiac era of Radiohead.

Thats cause it is great... my friends hate them as well....but then I hate my friends

[bonemachine]

Generally my friends like them, it's just that those albums were so experimental and electonic that they hated them. They obviously haven't listened to Pyramid Song...

[paulsharkey]

Generally my friends like them, it's just that those albums were so experimental and electonic that they hated them. They obviously haven't listened to Pyramid Song...

Thats what I like most about the newer albums, I love the fact a big named band is willing to try something new.
Did you go see them during the summer. I was very dissapointed in there live show.. it may have been the crowd though

[bonemachine]

Thats what I like most about the newer albums, I love the fact a big named band is willing to try something new.
Did you go see them during the summer. I was very dissapointed in there live show.. it may have been the crowd though

Yeah. Saw them in Malahide. The crowd were a bit reserved and I hadn't really gotten into the new album. Once it got dark the atmosphere was better.
Near the end when they came on for an encore to play the songs the crowd REALLY wanted to hear and he said "alright then" you could hear the defeat in his voice!

Highlights:

There, There
Lucky
My Iron Lung
Just
Paranoid Android.

[brandeezy]

jklimp[/INDENT];447118]I have no problem with you saying you dislike U2, but if you are going to be contrary, you should at least state your opinion intelligently rather than just saying that you don't like them, and a lot of people do, and that their lead singer is a jerk. If you don't like them talk about their music, my problem with your statement wasn't that you said you don't like U2, it was that instead of actually saying why you disliked them or engaging in any sort of intelligent debate, you wrote them off as overhyped rather than actually saying anything of substance. If you disagree with something, at least disagree intelligently, otherwise you are wasting everyone's time.

At no point did I attack U2's music. I wouldn't be able to sing a U2 song if my life depended on it. I didn't give my opinion of their music- at all. I stated that Bono is bigger than the band itself, that's it. No where did I say that U2 sucks.

Obviously you didn't bother to read my posts or perhaps didn't grasp them fully. Despite using U2 and Bono as an example of an over-exposed front man, my post was meant to be non-specific. I was however agree with the spirit of Champion's argument.

I'm not sure why you or Conor blew my post out of proportion. I don't even know WTF you are talking about in the quote above.

[kndoubleu]

At no point did I attack U2's music. I wouldn't be able to sing a U2 song if my life depended on it. I didn't give my opinion of their music- at all. I stated that Bono is bigger than the band itself, that's it. No where did I say that U2 sucks.

Obviously you didn't bother to read my posts or perhaps didn't grasp them fully. Despite using U2 and Bono as an example of an over-exposed front man, my post was meant to be non-specific. I was however agree with the spirit of Champion's argument.

I'm not sure why you or Conor blew my post out of proportion. I don't even know WTF you are talking about in the quote above.

It really started when you misinterpreted TNC's original post about U2. He'd called U2 overhyped/overblown and defied anyone to name a member besides Bono. My guess is that this wasn't a commentary on the phenomenon of frontmen growing too large, but the kind o thing you say to a newly minted Red Sox fan in a green "B" cap yelling about how much or she loves the Baastaan teams. "Can you even name their typical starting lineup?" -- it just implies that they're getting by on marketing and name recognition with fans... like U2's fans. From there, the rest of the forum took it that way, and you went off talking about intra-band dynamics and such.

And as far as your right to "push back" against someone telling you a band is the best thing since the Ronco Rotisserie, being intentionally non-specific in doing so is pretty much just jumping into an "IS TOO!" -- "IS NOT" exchange.

Why don't I like U2? Well, I imagine I was born about 15 years too late for them to be groundbreaking to me. I find their newer albums to have at best one or two tracks that work with whatever new motif they're running with, and the rest are just kind of dry-runs for those few quality ones. I think it's great that they're evolving, but at this point, they'd probably be better off releasing an album once every 4 years, instead of the 1.5ish cycle they were on earlier this decade.

[brandeezy]

It really started when you misinterpreted TNC's original post about U2. He'd called U2 overhyped/overblown and defied anyone to name a member besides Bono. My guess is that this wasn't a commentary on the phenomenon of frontmen growing too large, but the kind o thing you say to a newly minted Red Sox fan in a green "B" cap yelling about how much or she loves the Baastaan teams. "Can you even name their typical starting lineup?" -- it just implies that they're getting by on marketing and name recognition with fans... like U2's fans. From there, the rest of the forum took it that way, and you went off talking about intra-band dynamics and such.

And as far as your right to "push back" against someone telling you a band is the best thing since the Ronco Rotisserie, being intentionally non-specific in doing so is pretty much just jumping into an "IS TOO!" -- "IS NOT" exchange.

Why don't I like U2? Well, I imagine I was born about 15 years too late for them to be groundbreaking to me. I find their newer albums to have at best one or two tracks that work with whatever new motif they're running with, and the rest are just kind of dry-runs for those few quality ones. I think it's great that they're evolving, but at this point, they'd probably be better off releasing an album once every 4 years, instead of the 1.5ish cycle they were on earlier this decade.

This turned out to be a worthless "conversation"....

[timmywood-]

unpopular opinion: I like beer more than liquor.

[optimus187prime]

unpopular opinion: I like beer more than liquor.

Thats not unpopular with me :)

[sn4tch]

I've never laughed at Seinfeld.... ever.

I like Radiohead, but never enough to understand their popularity.

U2 is my most hated popular rock band. Because of the music too, it's boring. IMO.

I think the God of War games are terrible and repetitive.

[timmywood-]

I can't drink beer in green bottles.

I hated 3rd Rock From the Sun

After Hours is Scorsese' GREATEST FILM EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[gobo]

I can't drink beer in green bottles.

Well that's just sensible.

[cormano]

I actually really liked Spider-Man 3. Not loved, but I really liked it.



Spider-Man 3 drives me insane. I love the world created in the first two movies and the third one stays fairly true to that, the film making is still good and if I just ignore the plot… I love it. If I think about what is actually going on in the movie, though, I hate it. It drives me crazy. I actually wish it would have just been really, really bad so I could hate it and be done with it.

[hank41]

Spider-Man 3 drives me insane. I love the world created in the first two movies and the third one stays fairly true to that, the film making is still good and if I just ignore the plot… I love it. If I think about what is actually going on in the movie, though, I hate it. It drives me crazy. I actually wish it would have just been really, really bad so I could hate it and be done with it.

this is defintetly not an unpopular opinion

[cormano]

this is defintetly not an unpopular opinion

Yeah, I guess not. I forgot what thread I was even in, I just see the phrase "Spider-Man 3" and that comes out.

[brandeezy]

Speaking of Spider-Man..the first one kinda blows. Hard. I loved it when it first came out, but after subsequence viewings it kinda doesn't work.


The second one, of course, is near-perfection.

[esophagus]

I can't drink beer in green bottles.Right.I hated 3rd Rock From the SunWrong.

[gobo]

I seem to remember hearing something about green and clear bottles being bad for the beer.

[esophagus]

I don't like The Shining.

[gobo]

The only parts of 2001 I enjoy are the scenes with Hal, the rest of it is a waste of film.

[cam-]

I don't like The Shining.

Book? Nicholson? or guy from Wings version?

2 are good. I'll let you guess which ones.

[esophagus]

Nicholson. And probably the book, as my other unpopular opinion is I don't really like Stephen King. At least the little I have read.

[sn4tch]

Spider-Man 3 drives me insane. I love the world created in the first two movies and the third one stays fairly true to that, the film making is still good and if I just ignore the plot… I love it. If I think about what is actually going on in the movie, though, I hate it. It drives me crazy. I actually wish it would have just been really, really bad so I could hate it and be done with it.

I always like to say Spider-man 3 is 75% a good movie, 25% the worst thing I could ever imagine.

[jaflanagan]

Nicholson. And probably the book, as my other unpopular opinion is I don't really like Stephen King. At least the little I have read.

The book and the movie are actually both quite different. Kubrick did his own thing.

I don't really like horror, but I like Stephen King's non-fiction, like On Writing, or essays. The Shining was an OK book.

[esophagus]

The book and the movie are actually both quite different. Kubrick did his own thing.

I don't really like horror, but I like Stephen King's non-fiction, like On Writing, or essays. The Shining was an OK book.
Yeah, horror prose isn't really my bag, but I keep meaning to read On Writing. I think I have a copy somewhere. I've heard nothing but good things.

[diabhol]

I don't like The Shining.

Neither do I. I find it *insanely* boring.

[diabhol]

The only parts of 2001 I enjoy are the scenes with Hal, the rest of it is a waste of film.

Agreed. Puts me to sleep.

[esophagus]

Neither do I. I find it *insanely* boring.
*High-fives*

[cam-]

You people are insane. Kubrick movies boring? That makes no sense to me.

Of King's horror prose, I think the shining is his best in that it's actually scary. Most of his other books are really just adventure stories.

[gobo]

Speaking of Kubrick, I didn't like A Clockwork Orange.

[cam-]

Gah! Make It Stop!

[diabhol]

You people are insane. Kubrick movies boring? That makes no sense to me.


Kubrick is ok.

Full Metal Jacket and Clockwork Orange are both movies I enjoy quite a bit. I haven't figured out if I like Eyes Wide Shut, though.

At some point, I'll watch Dr. Strangelove, but I'm honestly not sure I will get out of it what everyone else gets out of it. Anything widely regarded as a "classic" (or something similar) starts out on shaky ground with me.

[racemccloud]

Book? Nicholson? or guy from Wings version?

2 are good. I'll let you guess which ones.

I love the "guy from Wings" version of "The Shining". "Kissin', kissin... that's what I've been missin'."

[racemccloud]

And there is no such thing as a well-written horror movie. It doesn't exist. Now, Horror Movies can be well MADE, that's true. But it's all about editing, timing and visuals. The writing has nothing to do with it.

[gobo]

I liked the Shining and Full Metal Jacket. Haven't watched Dr. Strangelove yet.

[paper]

And there is no such thing as a well-written horror movie. It doesn't exist. Now, Horror Movies can be well MADE, that's true. But it's all about editing, timing and visuals. The writing has nothing to do with it.

Yeah, no.

[racemccloud]

Yeah, no.

Well, that's a spirited and well-thought out counter argument.

[esophagus]

Well, that's a spirited and well-thought out counter argument.It's a genre. As someone who admits to notreally liking the genre, I'm guessing you've seen very little of it. Saying there is no such thing as a well written horror movie is untrue and something you simply couldn't know.

[paper]

Because your premise is laughable. Everything starts with a script. Yes, production is key to selling the scares, but to suggest that writing doesn't play any kind of role in creating a successful horror film is offensive.

[gobo]

I would bring the Exorcist and Exorcism of Emily Rose as examples of what I feel are well written horror movies.

[racemccloud]

Because your premise is laughable. Everything starts with a script. Yes, production is key to selling the scares, but to suggest that writing doesn't play any kind of role in creating a successful horror film is offensive.

"Offensive"? Okay, first we'll cut the melodrama. Well, I suppose this is why it's called the "Unpopular Opinion" thread. Besides, name me the horror film that would stand up on plot or character development alone, sans scares.

[esophagus]

"Offensive"? Okay, first we'll cut the melodrama. Well, I suppose this is why it's called the "Unpopular Opinion" thread. Besides, name me the horror film that would stand up on plot or character development alone, sans scares.Well-written doesn't equal excellent character development. Doing a good job of writing a horror movie means writing the scares and thrills. I would call the Romero series of movies a well-written horror series. Conversely, I would call the Saw series a laughable series that lives off of character development.

[racemccloud]

Well-written doesn't equal excellent character development. Doing a good job of writing a horror movie means writing the scares and thrills. I would call the Romero series of movies a well-written horror series. Conversely, I would call the Saw series a laughable series that lives off of character development.

A fair point. I would argue that it doesn't matter how well written a scare is on paper if it's poorly executed in the film. Of course, you could say the same thing about any sequence of film, I suppose, or any joke... I don't know. How much of the "scare" do we really think is developed by the screenwriter as opposed to the director? I guess then we're going on a case-by-case basis, so it would be tougher to quantify.

[paper]

There are intelligent people who write horror. Your comments suggest a lack of respect for what they do. As a writer, I am offended.

You listed Aliens already. The Sixth Sense. Devil's Backbone. Psycho. Jaws. The Birds. The Exorcist. The Thing. Silence of the Lambs. 28 Days Later. Misery.

[racemccloud]

As a writer, I am offended.

As a writer as well, I'm making an arguable point. Get off the high horse and realize I'm not attacking anyone personally. You can clearly disagree with me on this.

[paper]

You have a point. Blanket statements are much less offensive than personal attacks. Also easier.

[racemccloud]

You have a point. Blanket statements are much less offensive than personal attacks. Also easier.

Ah, sarcasm. The time-honored tool of one who has no argument left.

[paper]

You didn't refute my previous list of films. What do you want me to counter?

[paper]

I miss Labor Days. The arguments were just as frustrating, but they were better.

Have fun. I'm done and I think we both have better things to do. Feel free to make some obnoxious parting words.

[racemccloud]

There are intelligent people who write horror. Your comments suggest a lack of respect for what they do. As a writer, I am offended.

You listed Aliens already. The Sixth Sense. Devil's Backbone. Psycho. Jaws. The Birds. The Exorcist. The Thing. Silence of the Lambs. 28 Days Later. Misery.

"Aliens" is a sci-fi/action movie. "Alien" is a sci-fi/horror movie. "The Sixth Sense", "Jaws", "The Birds", "Psycho", "Silence of the Lambs"... these are suspense/thrillers, not horror. Never heard of "Devil's Backbone". I would argue that "The Thing" is not well-written, although I haven't seen it since I was, like, 11, so it's a little fuzzy. "The Exorcist"... that's a good point.

[hank41]

wow. this thread is getting ruined by the minute.

there is no way that either one of you is going to "back down" or anything, so can we just stop this?

i don't mean to stop a discussion or anything, that's what forums are for, but this is more of a slapping contest


so, anyways. an unpopular opinion of mine is that Leonardo DiCaprio is one of the best young actors of our generation

[racemccloud]

I miss Labor Days. The arguments were just as frustrating, but they were better.

Have fun. I'm done and I think we both have better things to do. Feel free to make some obnoxious parting words.

Wait... who's Labor Days?

[esophagus]

That's an unpopular opinion? He starred in both Titanic and The Departed. He has garnered more than a bit of praise.

[racemccloud]

wow. this thread is getting ruined by the minute.

there is no way that either one of you is going to "back down" or anything, so can we just stop this?

i don't mean to stop a discussion or anything, that's what forums are for, but this is more of a slapping contest


so, anyways. an unpopular opinion of mine is that Leonardo DiCaprio is one of the best young actors of our generation

An "unpopular opinion" would be that his best work was on "Growing Pains", not that he's a great young actor. He is indeed a great young actor, my friend. A little stuck-in-type because of that babyface, but a great young actor nevertheless.

[racemccloud]

there is no way that either one of you is going to "back down" or anything, so can we just stop this?

Wait a second! I did back down! Paper was right; "The Exorcist" is an excellently written horror movie. So they do exist! I was wrong. I just think that it's the exception rather than the rule.

[cam-]

"The Sixth Sense", "Jaws", "The Birds", "Psycho", "Silence of the Lambs"... these are suspense/thrillers, not horror.

I disagree, I think they would be suspense/thrillers without the scares but the "make you jump" moments are in there. So if that's the defining difference between Thriller and Horror (which I think is a bit vague to begin with) these are all horrors.

I've always thought of Suspense/Thrillers as the movies that are an excuse to have some soft-core sex and some killing, you know like the Poison Ivy franchise.

(that said I might give you Silence of the Lambs.)

[cam-]

Oh and Leo: great actor?

That's unpopular with me.

But then I think Titanic is a piece of shit.

[bonemachine]

I've never laughed at Seinfeld.... ever.

I like Radiohead, but never enough to understand their popularity.


Watch The Contest. If you don't laugh during that episode then you may well be clincally dead.

As for Radiohead, they can certainly split and audience. I LOVE them but I can understand why people dislike them.

[hank41]

That's an unpopular opinion? He starred in both Titanic and The Departed. He has garnered more than a bit of praise.

i know that a lot of people give him shit for being on the cover of fuckin Tiger Beat or something, but the guy has made a bad movie in (looks up on imdb) what, 6 years? he deserves those oscar nods and he will win one eventually. hopefully this year for Reservation Road

[racemccloud]

I disagree, I think they would be suspense/thrillers without the scares but the "make you jump" moments are in there. So if that's the defining difference between Thriller and Horror (which I think is a bit vague to begin with) these are all horrors.

I've always thought of Suspense/Thrillers as the movies that are an excuse to have some soft-core sex and some killing, you know like the Poison Ivy franchise.

(that said I might give you Silence of the Lambs.)

I'll give you "The Birds" and "Psycho, in return, but I'm still holding out on "The Sixth Sense" (supernatural thriller) and "Jaws", which I simply can not call a horror movie.

When I think "Horror", I start with "Nightmare on Elm Street", "Friday the 13th", and "Halloween", go into the teen slasher films of the 90's ("Scream" and its ilk), and then find myself in the current "torture porn" brand of the genre, right alongside the "Scary Children" category.

Look, this is a "genre" that I have never cared for or seen a huge amount of examples of (I scare real bad real easy), so admittedly I'm not the best judge of quality within it.

However, one could argue that the human need to label and categorize everything we see has led to false abstract concept of "genres", and that truthfully there is only good story and bad story, and the creation of the "genre" concept serves only to limit and shoehorn our imaginations.

Maybe "genres" aren't real.

[gobo]

Wait a second! I did back down! Paper was right; "The Exorcist" is an excellently written horror movie. So they do exist! I was wrong. I just think that it's the exception rather than the rule.

Well written movies are the exception in every genre.

[racemccloud]

Oh, and I'll second that "Seinfeld isn't that great" opinion, too. I've never been a huge fan, I certainly respect the success and acclaim, but as far as I'm concerned, "Seinfeld" isn't even in the same league as "The Cosby Show", "Friends", "Everybody Loves Raymond", "All in the Family", "Cheers", "Frasier", "I Love Lucy" and "The Honeymooners". (WPIX 11 NY represent!)

"Seinfeld" sure beats the hell out of "Alf", though.

[racemccloud]

Well written movies are the exception in every genre.

Another very fair point.

[esophagus]

Oh, and I'll second that "Seinfeld isn't that great" opinion, too. I've never been a huge fan, I certainly respect the success and acclaim, but as far as I'm concerned, "Seinfeld" isn't even in the same league as "The Cosby Show", "Friends", "Everybody Loves Raymond", "All in the Family", "Cheers", "Frasier", "I Love Lucy" and "The Honeymooners". (WPIX 11 NY represent!)

"Seinfeld" sure beats the hell out of "Alf", though.Hopefully not very unpopular opinion: Frasier is one of the worst television shows ever.

[conorkilpatrick]

Hopefully not very unpopular opinion: Frasier is one of the worst television shows ever.

Considering how popular it was, yes, it's very unpopular.

[racemccloud]

Hopefully not very unpopular opinion: Frasier is one of the worst television shows ever.

Really?! Wow! I think that's such a great show! Very smart writing, and such a great ensemble.

[conorkilpatrick]

Really?! Wow! I think that's such a great show! Very smart writing, and such a great ensemble.

Yeah, for five years or so it would be hard to beat that level of acting/writing.

[hank41]

im surprised at how much i enjoy that show. great show

[racemccloud]

Yeah, for five years or so it would be hard to beat that level of acting/writing.

As all shows do, it lost a little bit of steam at the end, but at its peak, it was gold.

[sn4tch]

I never understood why people thought that Frasier was too smart for people either. I'm a middle class, midwestern guy, and I thought it was very funny! Not bust a gut funny, but it would make me chuckle quite a bit.

As for Seinfeld, I'm pretty sure I've seen every episode. I used leave my TV on when working on things, and that was back when it was syndicated on like 37 channels. I always just figured that maybe it's an east coast thing? Like why I don't "get" Woody Allen movies that are all just him slobbering over NYC.

[esophagus]

Seinfeld is gold.

[hank41]

Seinfeld is gold.

it's gold baby!

[gobo]

it's gold baby!

Fuck gold, it's Platinum.

[hank41]

it's ODION!!!

i don't know, i just heard it on tv. sounded cool

[gobo]

I STILL watch Seinfeld almost every day. I firmly believe if it came out today it would still do amazingly well. It hasn't really aged a bit aside from hair and clothing styles.

[esophagus]

I STILL watch Seinfeld almost every day. I firmly believe if it came out today it would still do amazingly well. It hasn't really aged a bit aside from hair and clothing styles.Definitely. I feel like Seinfeld easily could have been the Simpsons of sitcoms. Could have adapted through the years and just kept going.

Edit: In fact, I'm watching right now. Generally catch at least two episodes of Seinfeld a day.

[gobo]

I saw the Elaine dates a super hero (or possibly poor dude) one today.

Yesterday was the classic soup nazi.

I'm always amazed going back and watching episodes that I haven't seen in a while. There's plotlines that I thought were whole episodes that are actually just a portion of a whole episode.

[dave-accampo]

Dammit, I missed the whole horror movie dust-up!

That's, like, my wheelhouse!

Enjoyed Seinfeld and Frasier. Both had their weak points, but both are well-done sitcoms. Seinfeld particularly deserves its place in history.

[hank41]

ive always wanted soup from the soup nazi. i bet it's really good

[gobo]

I've heard good things about the real soup nazi's soup.

[paper]

My opinion on Seinfeld is very similar to my opinion of the Model T. Same goes for The Simpsons.

[cam-]

I've heard good things about the real soup nazi's soup.

He's got a franchise in The Eaton Centre here in Toronto. It's funny, he's got "soup nazi" on the label with "nazi" crossed out and replaced by "man".

Pretty good soup too.

[esophagus]

My opinion on Seinfeld is very similar to my opinion of the Model T. Same goes for The Simpsons.
Which is?

[paper]

I respect them. Not interested in them in 2008.

[euchre0]

Do you mean the current new episodes of the Simpsons...or the episodes that came on in the mid to late 90s? Comparing an early model car to a sitcom seems weird, in any case.

[jon_samuelson]

He's clearly saying that for their time both the Simpsons, and a Model-T were absolutely revolutionary. Now, however, they're both a bit past their prime.

[euchre0]

He's clearly saying that for their time both the Simpsons, and a Model-T were absolutely revolutionary. Now, however, they're both a bit past their prime.
I understand that, but one is an object that is basically a tool used to enhance/change society, and the other is entertainment. While cars and other tools have progressed immensely, we don't go backward because other cars and tools have improved upon the basic function of the Model T. A TV show is a different kind of thing. Are we to say that any show, book, play, or comic we like now should be looked down upon in ten years? Can we look back at Raiders of the Lost Ark, The Godfather, or Star Wars and say that they were revolutionary but not that good buy current standards? in 10 years should we say that Mad Men served it's purpose but can't be enjoyed in 2018?

[jon_samuelson]

This is gonna come out sounding wrong, and I really don't intend for it to sound that way, but... I think you're thinking about it too much, and kinda looking for something to argue about. No analogy is perfect, and it's just kind of obtuse to belabor its inaccuracies.

[euchre0]

This is gonna come out sounding wrong, and I really don't intend for it to sound that way, but... I think you're thinking about it too much, and kinda looking for something to argue about. No analogy is perfect, and it's just kind of obtuse to belabor its inaccuracies.

That doesn't sound wrong at all...I am thinking about it too much. :)

I suppose I was just surprised that such great shows were so casually dismissed. Not the revolutionary...ness, but how great the content is. No biggie. Different tastes.

[dave-accampo]

I understand that, but one is an object that is basically a tool used to enhance/change society, and the other is entertainment. While cars and other tools have progressed immensely, we don't go backward because other cars and tools have improved upon the basic function of the Model T. A TV show is a different kind of thing. Are we to say that any show, book, play, or comic we like now should be looked down upon in ten years? Can we look back at Raiders of the Lost Ark, The Godfather, or Star Wars and say that they were revolutionary but not that good buy current standards? in 10 years should we say that Mad Men served it's purpose but can't be enjoyed in 2018?

I agree with this. I know what Paper's saying, but... Seinfeld was revolutionary for its time, but it also stands the test of time. I would also put I Love Lucy in this category. There's a reason why Lucy has been in syndication constantly for years and years and years. All over the world. Some things hold up over time.

Yes, you can be overexposed to Seinfeld. Yes, you can be bored with it. But I'll contend that it's still valid entertainment. You can give the DVDs to someone who has never seen it, and they will still surpass most of today's sitcoms. ON the other hand, you can't give someone a Model T and, well, any 2008 model car and have a comparable experience.

[jon_samuelson]

That doesn't sound wrong at all...I am thinking about it too much. :)

I suppose I was just surprised that such great shows were so casually dismissed. Not the revolutionary...ness, but how great the content is. No biggie. Different tastes.

Not different at all. The Simpson's is spectacular (the old episodes anyway), and I'll fight any man who says different.

[euchre0]

Not different at all. The Simpson's is spectacular (the old episodes anyway), and I'll fight any man who says different.

Yeah, but Paper deserves a fist shaking

[kenny-wisdom]

I've never been a big fan of Preacher. Not that it's a bad book or anything, just not my style.

[jon_samuelson]

Yeah, but Paper deserves a fist shaking

Oooh, I'm all for a good fist shaking.

[racemccloud]

And there is no such thing as a well-written horror movie. It doesn't exist. Now, Horror Movies can be well MADE, that's true. But it's all about editing, timing and visuals. The writing has nothing to do with it.

Not to dredge this up, and certainly not to start another spitting match (my bad, Paper) but I think I finally know how to say what I wanted to say... to me, a horror film is defined not by any literary standard, but by the gore factor, the visceral imagery, the blood and fangs and claws and "horrific"-ness of the audio-visuals that are utilized by the filmmaker (i.e. "horrible" sights and sounds.) I think (again, I'll say "to me") if you take the extreme graphic nature out of that part of the experience, you no longer have a horror film, you have a suspense/thriller.

I mean, yes, somebody has to WRITE those things, true. But I'd argue that on paper, in a screenplay, they aren't that scary. (Stephen King would surely disagree.)

Again, I'm sure there are examples out there to prove me wrong. i haven't thought of any yet. ("The Exorcist.") It's just a theory. And sure to be an "Unpopular Opinion." ;)

[tad]

A script is one component of a movie but probably the most important element. Oscars are given out for scripts so I think you can definitely have a conversation on whether any movie, horror or otherwise, is well written.

I disagree that horror is defined by gore. That would mean there were no popular horror films before the seventies. Modern tastes may be different but I don't think you can exclude Nosferatu, Frankenstein's monster, the wolfman, Dr. Moreau or the Cat People from the category.

But your Unpopular Opinion is your own and this is the thread for it.

[racemccloud]

A script is one component of a movie but probably the most important element. Oscars are given out for scripts so I think you can definitely have a conversation on whether any movie, horror or otherwise, is well written.

I disagree that horror is defined by gore. That would mean there were no popular horror films before the seventies. Modern tastes may be different but I don't think you can exclude Nosferatu, Frankenstein's monster, the wolfman, Dr. Moreau or the Cat People from the category.

But your Unpopular Opinion is your own and this is the thread for it.

Fair points, all. I'm a writer so I'm all for championing the relevance of the writer, and there are certainly many, many, many examples of great screenwriters and great screenplays.

I would argue, however, with the idea that the script is (generally speaking) the most important element of a film. Let me explain: "The Importance of Being Earnest" is an Oscar Wilde play. "Saving Private Ryan" is a Steven Spielberg film. Oscar Wilde wrote the play, while Spielberg directed the film. Quick, who directed the original stage production of "Earnest"? Who wrote "Private Ryan"?

Film is a visual medium that celebrates the director; theater is a literary medium that celebrates the writer. In theatre, it is the writer's project first and foremost. in film, any given movie is the director's project first and foremost. I just think that's the nature of the beast, the art form, and the business.

[gobo]

Clerks 2 is my favourite Kevin Smith movie.

[esophagus]

I don't really love Kevin Smith movies.

[paper]

Chasing Amy is my favorite, but it's been a while.

[esophagus]

Chasing Amy is the only one I haven't seen, I think.

[paper]

I'm not gonna say run out and grab it, but i know a lot of people who consider it his best. So if you're at the video store...

I also remember really enjoying the big documentary that comes with the Clerks X dvd. I enjoy the background and making of Clerks more than the film itself. It's just a great story.

[jon_samuelson]

I'm with gobo. Clerks 2 is my favorite. Chasing Amy may actually be the better film though. They both say really honest things about friendship, but I just thought Clerks 2 was a little more fun.

[racemccloud]

Clerks 2 is my favourite Kevin Smith movie.

I actually agree with this.

[racemccloud]

I don't really love Kevin Smith movies.

I disagree with this, with one caveat... I think I've outgrown some of his earlier and stuff, and Dogma, which at one point was my favorite, now comes across as kind of long-winded and preachy.

[sn4tch]

I disagree with this, with one caveat... I think I've outgrown some of his earlier and stuff, and Dogma, which at one point was my favorite, now comes across as kind of long-winded and preachy.

And the movie Dogma is the only movie (besides a few documentaries) that I can say changed my life. So really, to each his own.

[racemccloud]

And the movie Dogma is the only movie (besides a few documentaries) that I can say changed my life. So really, to each his own.

Oh, no, man, I loved it when I saw it, and I still love it, really. Raised Roman Catholic, I love that somebody finally spoke up and said, "No, this is a modern, everyday take on religion, that the Church institution has maybe gotten a little above itself, but the whole thing in general is a really good idea." I love that message. But the craft itself is a little chatty, a little talky, and it's not Smith's best-made or edited film (not that he was ever a great "filmmaker"; truth be told, he's a playwright trapped in a filmmaker's career.)

[racemccloud]

What amazed me about "Dogma" when I saw it was, in light of all the protests and screaming about it and whatnot, it is a remarkably pro-Catholic/pro-faith movie. It is really, really conservative in that regard.

[esophagus]

I disagree with thisThat's why this is the unpopular opinion thread.


I don't think he is making bad films by any means, but they're not great (says me). I'm glad to have seen each of them, but I have no intention of seeing them again.

[racemccloud]

That's why this is the unpopular opinion thread.

But of course! :D

I don't think he is making bad films by any means, but they're not great (says me). I'm glad to have seen each of them, but I have no intention of seeing them again.

As films, they for the most part are not great. As I stated above, he is not a great "filmmaker". I think it comes down to, do you like his dialogue-heavy, pop-culture saturated style of writing or not? I first saw his work with "Mallrats", which is never going to be mistaken with "The Godfather", but which completely hit me out of nowhere with, among other things (Cousin Walter), an in-depth graphic conversation about Superman's sex life. (Sold!) He has since improved as a filmmaker and (somewhat) matured as a writer, IMO, which is why, as I've grown older, I think I find myself relating more to "Clerks 2" than the earlier stuff.

But there's not a lot of great filmmaking craft going on there. To me, appreciation for his stuff comes down to appreciation for his writing style. And I really enjoy that really verbose style.

And if you've never seen the first "An Evening With Kevin Smith" DVD... see if you can't track down that first disc, or at least the clip online, of his story about his work on the Nic Cage/Tim Burton "Superman" project. It's just one of the greatest stories you've ever heard.

[gobo]

Speaking of an Evening with Kevin Smith, has anytone bought or watched Threevening yet?

[racemccloud]

Speaking of an Evening with Kevin Smith, has anytone bought or watched Threevening yet?

I haven't finished "Evening Harder" yet. I was underwhelmed by Disc 1 and, honestly, I listen to Smodcast. If you want to hear/read Kevin Smith opine on something, just throw a rock. The dude won't shut up!

[gobo]

Evening Harder definitely wasn't as good as Evening with Kevin Smith, but I still have hopes for Threevening. You don't get the longform stories from Evening in the Smodcast.

[jaflanagan]

Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back is my favorite Kevin Smith movie.

Weird, right?

It's not good at all, but it makes me laugh, in the most juvenile way.

"because they both, in fact, lick balls."

[racemccloud]

Evening Harder definitely wasn't as good as Evening with Kevin Smith, but I still have hopes for Threevening. You don't get the longform stories from Evening in the Smodcast.

No, that's true. And I'll get to Disc 2 soon enough. But if the Smodcast doesn't do it for your, read his blog, or his books, or his magazine articles... I mean, the dude puts his opinion and voice out there like almost no filmmaker I've ever seen. And he's a fantastic conversationalist/storyteller (shows why his movies are so dialogue driven), so I don't mind. But dude can talk.

[racemccloud]

Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back is my favorite Kevin Smith movie.

Weird, right?

It's not good at all, but it makes me laugh, in the most juvenile way.

"because they both, in fact, lick balls."

Nowhere near his best. But there are so many moments in that flick I just laugh and laugh at. "Here's a guy posting with the chick-magnet handle 'Wampa 1'." So funny.

But it's not as funny as "Mallrats". Which is also not a real good movie.

[gobo]

I have no desire to ever watch Mallrats again.

I could watch J&SB Strike Back forever, easily his movie I find the funniest.

[racemccloud]

I have no desire to ever watch Mallrats again.

I could watch J&SB Strike Back forever, easily his movie I find the funniest.

Really? Man, I love "Mallrats". It was one of those things, though, where I knew nothing about it going in except for the fact that I didn't like Shannon Doherty, and it ended up completely catching me by surprise. So my opinion of it will always be bolstered by that. Like the first "Austin Powers". Same thing.

[gobo]

I liked Mallrats once, I watched it again and don't think I laughed more than once or twice.

I don't actively hate it or anything, I just get nothing out of it anymore.

[brandeezy]

"Jersey Girls" is Kevin Smith's best movie...too bad he has no balls and can't stand by his creative decisions.

[racemccloud]

I liked Mallrats once, I watched it again and don't think I laughed more than once or twice.

I don't actively hate it or anything, I just get nothing out of it anymore.

I haven't watched in a long time, so who knows how I'll react? It was just one of those great "discovery" moments for me in entertainment that come along once in a blue moon. "Mallrats", "Austin Powers", "Harry Potter and the Sorceror's Stone" (the book), and "Ultimate Spider-Man Vol. 1" are the ones that immediately come to mind, where I went in expecting nothing, and was amazed by how great I found them to be. "Rent" on Broadway, too.

[jaflanagan]

I used the think Mallrats was the funniest thing I'd ever seen. But time has withered that memory a bit.

[racemccloud]

I used the think Mallrats was the funniest thing I'd ever seen. But time has withered that memory a bit.

I think that's called "getting older", also known as "growing up". It's happened to me, too. Sometimes it sucks. Sometimes it's cool.

[hank41]

my vote goes for Chasing Amy.

[optimus187prime]

I used the think Mallrats was the funniest thing I'd ever seen. But time has withered that memory a bit.

I know its not his best film in skill/craft, but Mallrats is still my favorite Smith film. I can quote it line for line, and still enjoy catching it on cable.