New Comics Discussion for 08/20/2008 failed to clear the last hurdle! [Archive]

conorkilpatrick

08-20-2008, 07:05 PM

Tell us what you thought of the books of the week!

Here's what Josh (http://www.ifanboy.com/users/Josh/comics), Ron (http://www.ifanboy.com/users/Ron/comics), Conor (http://www.ifanboy.com/users/Conor/comics), and Gordon (http://www.ifanboy.com/users/Gordon/comics) are reading.

This week's Pick of the Week:

http://www.ifanboy.com/comics/dark_horse_comics/fear_agent/23/cover-medium.jpg

From here on out, it's SPOILER-O-RAMA.

Don't forget to rate and review the books over at iFanboy.com (http://www.ifanboy.com/comics)!

hank41

08-20-2008, 07:27 PM

looks like im only getting Captain America this week...but wait! there is a Romita on Spider-man! i must buy!!!

horatio616

08-20-2008, 07:45 PM

I got Final Crisis: Legion of Two Worlds. Halfway through it and it's pretty good. Easy to understand especially if you've read Final Crisis. Superboy Prime is batshit crazy.

mrpopular

08-20-2008, 09:04 PM

Grabbed 1985.

and

Air#1 (why I don't know, just bought it on a whim)

s1lentslayer

08-20-2008, 09:04 PM

Skrulls must have overtaken ifanboy.com:(

gungadin

08-20-2008, 09:09 PM

Air#1 (why I don't know, just bought it on a whim)

Tell me what you think. I have no idea what it is, but I'm wondering what you think cuz I'm gonna pick it up....

hank41

08-20-2008, 09:11 PM

same here. let me know how it is...or what it is

gobo

08-20-2008, 09:29 PM

I liked the previews for Air enough, I don't know if I'll get out today or tomorrow though

dave-accampo

08-20-2008, 10:17 PM

Read Legion of 3 Worlds. It was pretty good. Very dense. A little on the dry side. Lots of set-up in this ish, but I like where it ends (yay, multiple legions! I know them all!) and have high hopes for the rest of the series.

1. It's a bit dry if you're really familiar with the Legion. I felt like I've read read a lot of these elements many times before. But they need this book to (probably) reboot the franchise, so I expect they're aiming for readers who have never read the Legion. And in that sense it was sucessful.

2. Superboy-prime is kinda annoying. Yeah, I get that he's the petulant child, but I feel like Johns could handle it with a bit more nuance. The opening scene in particular seemed over done: "I'm in the stupid future." "This is all for lame Superman?" I dunno -- I get the idea of Prime, but he feels like a caricature. I would like little more dimension to him.

optimus187prime

08-20-2008, 11:00 PM

I dont normally get Amazing Spidey but decided to give it a try since Romita is drawing the shit out of everything he does. I loved this issue, it was a great set up, felt like there were plenty of threads established so they can get tied into a knot later. The art was great but felt a little stripped down in some spots. I really liked the Eddie Brock back up as well, I think he is going to have a big role in "New Ways to Die".

neb

08-20-2008, 11:05 PM

Scapled = Wow

It increases exponentially, by the way.

optimus187prime

08-20-2008, 11:33 PM

dave-accampo

08-20-2008, 11:37 PM

For those of you who read Punisher Max, if I read #61 will it spoil anything in #50-60?

I read Pun in HC so I am not current, but I would like to "taste" the new writer before purchasing HC #5 on its release. Also any opinions on Gregg Hurwitz's take on Frank?

Oh, he takes over with the new issue? Nowwww, it makes sense. He's buying comics from my LCS now, I guess, and he was just in there today while I was picking up my books. Several people were talking to him about Punisher, but I wasn't sure why. He was also signing copies of the Foolkiller trade (Speaking of... anyone read that and/or like it? Browsed the first ish and wasn't compelled to buy, but it seemed interesting).

So, um, I can't comment on his writing, but he seems like a nice guy! :)

racemccloud

08-20-2008, 11:39 PM

Hey, is it just me, or is the main "iFanboy.com" site down?

labor_days

08-20-2008, 11:43 PM

Read Legion of 3 Worlds. It was pretty good. Very dense. A little on the dry side. Lots of set-up in this ish, but I like where it ends (yay, multiple legions! I know them all!) and have high hopes for the rest of the series.

1. It's a bit dry if you're really familiar with the Legion. I felt like I've read read a lot of these elements many times before. But they need this book to (probably) reboot the franchise, so I expect they're aiming for readers who have never read the Legion. And in that sense it was successful.

2. Superboy-prime is kinda annoying. Yeah, I get that he's the petulant child, but I feel like Johns could handle it with a bit more nuance. The opening scene in particular seemed over done: "I'm in the stupid future." "This is all for lame Superman?" I dunno -- I get the idea of Prime, but he feels like a caricature. I would like little more dimension to him.

I agree with you here.

The approach Johns has to Prime is supposed to be a caricature- I'm fine with that. I would say Johns gets Prime better than anyone. But yeah, the dialogue for Prime can be a bit too much.

Still enjoyed the heck out of the book though. Perez, baby.

dave-accampo

08-20-2008, 11:43 PM

Yeah, it's down. They're working on it. Superboy punched the server or something.

racemccloud

08-20-2008, 11:44 PM

Yeah, it's down. They're working on it. Superboy punched the server or something.

You can't call him Superboy anymore.

dave-accampo

08-20-2008, 11:48 PM

I agree with you here.

The approach Johns has to Prime is supposed to be a caricature- I'm fine with that. nd I would say Johns gets Prime better than anyone. But yeah, the dialogue for Prime can be a bit too much.

Still enjoyed the heck out of the book though. Perez, baby.

Heh... I love that any writer who writes for Perez now makes SURE he's got a team assembly type shot in there. Loved the spread with the two other Legions.

Re: Prime... Yeah, I get it. And I'm sure Johns would have the best handle since he essentially created him (in this state). I guess it's just not my cup of tea, ya know? I like the idea of a Silver Age character going mad because of the differences in the world he's in now. But in this issue the execution just felt too-on -the-nose for my tastes.

dave-accampo

08-20-2008, 11:49 PM

You can't call him Superboy anymore.

Oh, *I* can... it's just that DC can't. :p

(although they used the name Superboy a number of times in this issue of Legion of Three Worlds.)

labor_days

08-20-2008, 11:51 PM

I liked Prime in Sinestro Corps War. And some of IC- though his turn to villain was..."not the best", if you will.

It just might be time to put Prime on the shelf for awhile.

kahunablair

08-20-2008, 11:53 PM

All this talk about Superboy got me thinking... What the heck happened to the Monarch??

racemccloud

08-20-2008, 11:55 PM

All this talk about Superboy got me thinking... What the heck happened to the Monarch??

What the hell is the Monarch? Somebody ought to create a user generated online encyclopedia so that people can keep track of these things...

kahunablair

08-20-2008, 11:58 PM

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3a/MonarchWTF.jpg

dave-accampo

08-21-2008, 12:02 AM

Hey, yeah... for those of us who didn't read Countdown, what happened with that. Wasn't he teaming up with Monitors or something? Or fighting them?

I'm confused.

Also: who IS Monarch now? Captain Atom? Hawk? Jean Grey? Walt Whitman?

labor_days

08-21-2008, 12:08 AM

Monarch was Captain Atom.

Monarch exploded and took out Earth-51 when Prime popped his helmet. That sapped the remaining power Prime had absorbed from the Guardian. Flung Prime into the future too.

Nobody knows if Monarch survived.

Edit: Countdown was fucking awful. God.

dave-accampo

08-21-2008, 12:18 AM

I don't know how this is gonna go over with the masses, but god help me, I really, really enjoyed the new issue of Uncanny X-men.

This one's definitely Fraction, and his voice is still a tad uneven in places, but this book feels to me like the unholy lovechild of Chris Claremont and Grant Morrison. It's got the attitude of Morrison's X-men. It's clearly written to adults. It feels new. But there's a serialized, soap style and a prose narration that's very Claremont, albeit with a modern spin.

Didn't mind Greg Land's art, either, for whatever that's worth.

labor_days

08-21-2008, 12:22 AM

Didn't mind Greg Land's art, either, for whatever that's worth.

Two pence?

Edit: Also, you disgust me.

dave-accampo

08-21-2008, 12:31 AM

Edit: Also, you disgust me. The issue is worth reading. A few great lines of dialogue. Some cool ideas. A couple of nice character moments. Very solid issue. I think Fraction's run could go very well, if this issue is any indication.

For Land's art -- I can only say that it didn't throw me out of the story. I didn't feel like there was an overabundance of pornstar tracings or anything like that.

labor_days

08-21-2008, 12:41 AM

I'm talking about Land's art and you know it, Dave.

(I would actually be interested in an Uncanny written by Fraction. I dig the guy's style when unfettered.)

dave-accampo

08-21-2008, 12:45 AM

I'm talking about Land's art and you know it, Dave.

(I would actually be interested in an Uncanny written by Fraction. I dig the guy's style when unfettered.)

I figured. I think you might actually like this one. But not for the art. So... you know, it's whatever your priorities are when it comes to writing vs. art.

dave-accampo

08-21-2008, 01:03 AM

Captain America was pretty awesome this week. I don't think I have anything else to add to that. It's the same storyline, and it's just getting into the big finale, so it's really ramping up.

ryan79

08-21-2008, 01:05 AM

Halfway through my stack and as of now, X-Factor: Layla Miller is leading the pack for my pick of the week. Peter David OWNS these characters when he's left to his own devices.

labor_days

08-21-2008, 01:38 AM

I figured. I think you might actually like this one. But not for the art. So... you know, it's whatever your priorities are when it comes to writing vs. art.

Ideally, I would like for both to be good.

neb

08-21-2008, 02:06 AM

Incredible Hercules rocked my fucking face off. My god that was one fine comic book.

neb

08-21-2008, 02:11 AM

In unrelated news, I forgot to buy Guardians of the Galaxy #4 today and now my store is all sold out. F-bomb.

horatio616

08-21-2008, 03:14 AM

Despite the last few pages blunting my enthusiasm, the book I had the most fun reading was Final Crisis: Legion of Three Worlds #1. Lots of exposition in the beginning, but it was necessary, and Johns found a clever way of doing it. Perez is Perez. Either you love his stuff or not. I'll admit that he doesn't do it for me like he used to, but everything he draws is dynamic. I was really digging it until The Hero Formerly Known as Braniac 5 decides to invite two more Legion teams to join the party and then Superman reveals that his master plan to stop Superman-Prime is to "redeem" him instead of kill him. Look, I know it's in character, but, for real, somebody needs to tell Superman to stop being a pussy. He just got through killing 20,000 people and Superman wants to rehabilitate him. It's gutless storytelling.

Still, I enjoyed it overall and will definitely finish the rest of the series.

I enjoy 1985, but it's got a cruel streak that dampens my enthusiasm of it. Millar has this thing about collateral damage. He thinks the indiscriminate slaughter of innocents grounds his stories in the real world, but it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. The art looked rushed and sketchy in this issue too. If it weren't so close to the end I'd consider dropping it. Blob eating kids out of a school bus just doesn't tickle my fancy.

horatio616

08-21-2008, 03:18 AM

The issue is worth reading. A few great lines of dialogue. Some cool ideas. A couple of nice character moments. Very solid issue. I think Fraction's run could go very well, if this issue is any indication.

For Land's art -- I can only say that it didn't throw me out of the story. I didn't feel like there was an overabundance of pornstar tracings or anything like that.

Cyclops and Emma Frost are an exciting, very sexually-active couple. Only counted one eco-friendly message in this issue, but could have missed others.

aerodynamics

08-21-2008, 03:29 AM

The Cyclops/Frost bed scene was a bit much.

"Let's make mutant babies!"

Seriously?!

horatio616

08-21-2008, 03:31 AM

The Cyclops/Frost bed scene was a bit much.

"Let's make mutant babies!"

Seriously?!

They're activists now. They care about the environment and everything. And they're horny too.

aerodynamics

08-21-2008, 03:36 AM

They're activists now. They care about the environment and everything. And they're horny too.

Actually, when you put it that way --

Horny activists (and similar such suprising bizarreness) are exactly what's needed to save comics!

neb

08-21-2008, 03:50 AM

Well, I haven't gotten through all of my comics yet, but I've enjoyed the hell out of what I've read. Somehow, in my sleepy haze, I was able to crank out some reviews...

Incredible Hercules #120 (http://www.ifanboy.com/reviews/Neb/marvel_comics/incredible_hercules/120)
The Brave and the Bold #16 (http://www.ifanboy.com/reviews/Neb/dc_comics/brave_and_the_bold/16)
Scapled #20 (http://www.ifanboy.com/reviews/Neb/dc_comics/scalped/20)

bigyanks

08-21-2008, 03:53 AM

ive only read JLA and Spiderman.
I love that Amazo "bettlejuice'd" zatanna.

horatio616

08-21-2008, 04:13 AM

Review of Final Crisis: Legion of Three Worlds: Men and X-Men #1:

http://ifanboy.com/reviews/ultimatehoratio/dc_comics/final_crisis_legion_of_three_worlds/1_(of_5)

euchre0

08-21-2008, 04:44 AM

Holy cow! Superman/Batman #51 was sweeeeeeet! So much fun.

"Without warning or reason...my parents were pushed to the ground. Two shoves. And nothing was ever the same again. I swore that night that no one would ever be bullied in Gotham City."

If anyone likes either Superman or Batman, I recommend you pick this up next week when you get next weeks new comics.

Uncanny X-Men was interesting. At first I didn't really like this issue, but by the time I finished, I was sure that this was a great start to the new "staus quo." Good fun. My only complaint is that I'm tired of evil chicks in dominatrix gear. Just sick of it...although I'm probably influenced by the fact I've never much liked it in comics. Still a fun X-Men book.

gungadin

08-21-2008, 05:22 AM

dave-accampo

08-21-2008, 06:32 AM

dave-accampo

08-21-2008, 06:34 AM

I hate Ghost Rider.

I hate the movie. I hate Nicholas Cage in the movie. I hate his character. I hate the character of Ghost Rider. I hate his whole premise. I hate being expected to understand an 80's Biker demon who kills people for fun. I hate this whole let's make comics gritty because we can thing.

I fuckin loved this week's issue of Ghost Rider. That came out of fucking nowhere.

Speaking of... I thought this was an OK issue, but I'm wondering... I only know the caretaker character from the (crappy) movie. Did he also exist in the Dan Ketch Ghostrider series, or is Aaron pulling something from the movie and retconning it in?

It's interesting, but I have to admit that I'm not liking this story as much as I did Aaron's first arc. There's a lot of call back to old mythology here and the story didn't really grab me. But it's also a big set-up in this ish.

dave-accampo

08-21-2008, 06:36 AM

JLA was pretty fun -- it's essentially a big Amazo fight, but I liked the way McDuffie used everyone. It felt very much like his work on the JL animated series. I also like the build up to Vixen's story. I think next issue is going to be a good one. Plus: Animal Man! Yay, Animal Man!

gungadin

08-21-2008, 06:36 AM

So, I read Air, which some of you asked about. I'm a bit ambivalent about it. The art is good. The story itself was interesting, but failed to really captivate me. I'm at a bit of a loss because I'm not sure if it's just that the plot is one that simply doesn't interest me or if the writer made some missteps in the storytelling. I think it's the former. The dialogue is OK. The plot definitely moves and you get a bit of the set-up. But there wasn't the "amazing high concept" of Y: The Last Man or 100 Bullets... there wasn't the inventiveness of Scalped or Young Liars. It just wasn't enough to truly grab me. Now maybe this is a slow build series, but as of right now, I could take it or leave it.

I kinda feel the same thing, except the art didn't do much for me. I was confused about what was happening when until the end... And like... I dunno, it didn't really blow me away with much. I did like the first page, but it felt just very long and much more contrived than I was expecting... And that last page "revelation" wasn't much of a leap if you ask me... Maybe he faked that return address?

I dunno, if people say it picks up, I'll pick it up, otherwise, I doubt I'll pick the rest of this up. She had 32 pages, and very little happened to really hold my mind hostage, or melt it into a wild cherry squishee...

gungadin

08-21-2008, 06:40 AM

Speaking of... I thought this was an OK issue, but I'm wondering... I only know the caretaker character from the (crappy) movie. Did he also exist in the Dan Ketch Ghostrider series, or is Aaron pulling something from the movie and retconning it in?

It's interesting, but I have to admit that I'm not liking this story as much as I did Aaron's first arc. There's a lot of call back to old mythology here and the story didn't really grab me. But it's also a big set-up in this ish.

I know nothing about Ghost Rider except for what I didn't block out of my mind when I walked out of the theater... I did feel a little lost, but it was a total romp and felt a little bit like the first issue of Aaron's two issue arc on Hellblazer, what with people doing things and shit going down (the caretaker blowing off the head of that dog was AWESOME and made me go "OH DAMN!") and then in the last little bit, the main character shows up... Wasn't a huge fan of his Hellblazer, but I liked it applied more here... And it's certainly interesting enough for me to go pick up the earlier stuff of Aaron's run...

darkknightjrk

08-21-2008, 07:28 AM

Holy cow! Superman/Batman #51 was sweeeeeeet! So much fun.

"Without warning or reason...my parents were pushed to the ground. Two shoves. And nothing was ever the same again. I swore that night that no one would ever be bullied in Gotham City."

If anyone likes either Superman or Batman, I recommend you pick this up next week when you get next weeks new comics.

God, I thought I would be the only one recommending this!

If you guys aren't convinced after that, here's some scans:

"I'm the goshdarned Batman!" (http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/6078124.html?page=1&view=227812268#comments)

denmmurray

08-21-2008, 02:38 PM

God, I thought I would be the only one recommending this!

If you guys aren't convinced after that, here's some scans:

"I'm the goshdarned Batman!" (http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/6078124.html?page=1&view=227812268#comments)

Well...there's another book for me to pick up.

gobo

08-21-2008, 04:22 PM

I really enjoyed Air #1 and I'm definitely going to keep picking it up for a few months to see where it goes, but I could definitely see it fumbling pretty badly.

I think X-Factor: Layla Miller is probably going to end up being my POW but I haven't got to Scalped yet.

gungadin

08-21-2008, 04:36 PM

I didn't hate Scalped, and it had some awesome awesome moments that made my heart just kinda break or whatever... but.... I dunno, it just sorta ended fast... I liked it, though... A lot...

euchre0

08-21-2008, 04:41 PM

I think X-Factor: Layla Miller is probably going to end up being my POW but I haven't got to Scalped yet.

I thought long and hard about buying it, but decided I'd wait to hear how it was received. So good so far, I guess.

gungadin

08-21-2008, 04:51 PM

I thought long and hard about buying it, but decided I'd wait to hear how it was received. So good so far, I guess.

Dude in my store told me it was really good... I'm picking it up tomorrow when I go back into the store to pick up Fear Agent and potentially others...

kwok_talk

08-21-2008, 04:55 PM

I thought long and hard about buying it, but decided I'd wait to hear how it was received. So good so far, I guess.

I thought it had some good moments (the spaceship falling to earth probably the best), but I thought it really disappointed. I was hoping it would have resolved Layla's story. And when Cyclops shows up. Ugh.

gobo

08-21-2008, 05:39 PM

I thought the Summers Rebellion was a nice touch and tied things up with some of Bishop's backstory

gungadin

08-21-2008, 07:18 PM

Batgirl #2- Dropped. This was TERRIBLE. I hated every page. Cassandra Cain does not kill. This is so ridiculous that I just can't care anymore.

conorkilpatrick

08-21-2008, 07:53 PM

Batgirl #2- Dropped. This was TERRIBLE. I hated every page. Cassandra Cain does not kill. This is so ridiculous that I just can't care anymore.

She did when she was younger. And she was the one stopping the other girl from killing this entire issue. She was explicitly saying she doesn't kill. Your criticism makes no sense.

gungadin

08-21-2008, 08:11 PM

She did when she was younger. And she was the one stopping the other girl from killing this entire issue. She was explicitly saying she doesn't kill. Your criticism makes no sense.

I know she killed as a kid, but part of what endeared me to her when she became Batgirl was she didn't kill. That was the condition. But now she's being Batgirl and saying "I'm only going to kill them" which makes so little sense. I liked the part where she stopped Marque from killing the people, that was fine and more in character, but the conceit of this miniseries being "I'm going to go kill the people who wronged me" feels so insanely out of character. It's like she's taken huge leaps backwards in who she is.

That said, the scene with Oracle was... decent... but... still fairly meh. There was an issue of Batgirl where she teamed up with Oracle and the Birds and it was enjoyable and good and their relationship is SO interesting, but it's.... I don't know. This whole miniseries is rubbing me the wrong way.

conorkilpatrick

08-21-2008, 09:10 PM

I know she killed as a kid, but part of what endeared me to her when she became Batgirl was she didn't kill. That was the condition. But now she's being Batgirl and saying "I'm only going to kill them" which makes so little sense. I liked the part where she stopped Marque from killing the people, that was fine and more in character, but the conceit of this miniseries being "I'm going to go kill the people who wronged me" feels so insanely out of character. It's like she's taken huge leaps backwards in who she is.

That said, the scene with Oracle was... decent... but... still fairly meh. There was an issue of Batgirl where she teamed up with Oracle and the Birds and it was enjoyable and good and their relationship is SO interesting, but it's.... I don't know. This whole miniseries is rubbing me the wrong way.

So you're indicting the book for things that haven't happened yet? I understand if you just don't like it overall but to complain about her killing people when she hasn't yet undermines your argument.

gungadin

08-21-2008, 09:30 PM

So you're indicting the book for things that haven't happened yet? I understand if you just don't like it overall but to complain about her killing people when she hasn't yet undermines your argument.

That's not unfair, but the book is built around a story idea that I don't agree with and doesn't fit with the character. Whether or not she succeeds is irrelevant. Her intent is out of character.

conorkilpatrick

08-21-2008, 09:33 PM

That's not unfair, but the book is built around a story idea that I don't agree with and doesn't fit with the character. Whether or not she succeeds is irrelevant. Her intent is out of character.

I say I'm going to kill people all the time, doesn't mean I am going to do it.

Guess who else has said it?

Batman.

paper

08-21-2008, 09:34 PM

....Conor is Batman!

Of course!

gungadin

08-21-2008, 09:37 PM

I say I'm going to kill people all the time, doesn't mean I am going to do it.

Guess who else has said it?

Batman.

You're not wrong, but this feels different to me, somehow. Maybe it's because she's killed in the past... And I'm not doubting that there's a Batman book out there where Batman's gone on a six issue arc with the intent of "I'm gonna go kill this person and make them pay" but that doesn't feel in character. If it's him at the end of issue four saying "I'm going to kill someone" that's different from this where she jumps in at the beginning and is like "Them two. They're dead. No one else is dead. But they're dead."

I also apologize for sounding like a closed minded jackass. I just love this character, and I hated what DC editorial did to her after Infinite Crisis and this feels like trying to fix it but is rubbing me the wrong way. I've long been a huge defender of Cassandra Cain, so much so that it often might blind me to a positive truth... or whatever...

horatio616

08-21-2008, 09:46 PM

I say I'm going to kill people all the time, doesn't mean I am going to do it.

Guess who else has said it?

Batman.

Has anyone else noticed how supervillains have become increasingly sadistic and genocidal while the heroes are swinging in the complete opposite direction? The heroes spent the late 80s, all of the 90s, and the early part of this decade in a 'grim-and-gritty' phase, but now they have a more traditional Silver Age-y feel. Personally, I find the contrast a bit jarring.

Take this paraphrased bit of dialogue from Final Crisis: Legion of Three Worlds in which Superman has just learned that Superboy-Prime has just murdered 20,000 people:

Superman: "We've got to stop Superboy."

Lightning Lad: "Are you suggesting we kill him?"

Superman: "No, and I'm not sure it's even possible at this point. We have to redeem him."

Is this a) clever storytelling by Johns, b) a cop-out, or c) both?

Does unflinching morality in the face of genocide undermine the heroes integrity or emphasize their greatness?

aerodynamics

08-21-2008, 10:36 PM

I think it's a reflection of the zeitgeist. After 5.5 years of the Iraq war, sentiment may be that superheroes should be exemplars of all that is good, wholesome and pure. Again.

horatio616

08-21-2008, 10:42 PM

I think it's a reflection of the zeitgeist. After 5.5 years of the Iraq war, sentiment may be that superheroes should be exemplars of all that is good, wholesome and pure. Again.

Yeah, but they're letting the villains kill everybody, so actually the books are getting darker but in a different way. There's no justice in comics because the villains are never killed and when they're imprisoned it's not for very long.

aerodynamics

08-21-2008, 10:57 PM

Yeah, but they're letting the villains kill everybody, so actually the books are getting darker but in a different way. There's no justice in comics because the villains are never killed and when they're imprisoned it's not for very long.

It seems, from your above Superman quote, that the idea is not to abstain from intervening against evildoers, but to stop them by means other than killing.

Granted, I haven't read the issue in question.

As far as the notion of the darkening of tone in comics is concerned--it seems to me that the notion that evil is loose in the world is one that all of us must cope with in some way or other. Superhero comics, as an escapist medium, must walk the delicate line of offering an ideal world that somehow nevertheless seems plausible, even if barely so. Looking back to the comics of the mid-twentieth century, after victory in WWII and the defeat of Hitler and his allies, one suspects that it seemed possible that the primary evil on earth had been eradicated, and that this sense was reflected in the popular art of the time.

conorkilpatrick

08-21-2008, 11:17 PM

Yeah, but they're letting the villains kill everybody, so actually the books are getting darker but in a different way. There's no justice in comics because the villains are never killed and when they're imprisoned it's not for very long.

If there were true justice there would be no more superhero comics. The Never Ending Battle and all that.

wellthatsalright

08-21-2008, 11:21 PM

Is anyone a little excited about Robin right now?! Red Robin and Robin and and and.... I had a little fit of crazy over that cover for some reason. *opens red bull #4*

ryan79

08-21-2008, 11:35 PM

horatio616

08-21-2008, 11:38 PM

If there were true justice there would be no more superhero comics. The Never Ending Battle and all that.

I finally figured out why I never liked the new JSA series. The tone just didn't do it for me, that weird mix of mass murder and nostalgia. I was struck by that same thing reading Legion of Three Worlds and 1985. While I did enjoy the latter two, the mixing of those disparate elements throws me off.

horatio616

08-21-2008, 11:42 PM

Man, seeing Blob eat those kids in 1985 really bummed you out, didn't it?

It just doesn't seem to fit in the story. The title '1985' is supposed to be a trip down memory lane. Instead, it's really not about that at all. It's about what if supervillains came into this world and started killing everybody. Not what I signed up for nor what the series was touted as.

conorkilpatrick

08-22-2008, 12:03 AM

Not what I signed up for nor what the series was touted as.

What was it touted as?

kahunablair

08-22-2008, 12:19 AM

Amazing SpiderMan was great this week. I think it's my POW.

Batman/Superman was probably the "funnest" book!

horatio616

08-22-2008, 01:02 AM

What was it touted as?

A trip down memory lane for people who were reading comics in 1985. Turns out it's really not about that at all. Actually, it makes no difference whether the story takes place in 1985 or 2005. It's just a selling point.

Of course, that boy will be around 30 now, so seeing what he becomes as an adult may be the point. Mark Millar, maybe?

horatio616

08-22-2008, 01:04 AM

You know, I think Guardians of the Galaxy is going to edge out Final Crisis: Legion of Three Worlds for my POW. Abnett and Landing are knocking this out of the park.

conorkilpatrick

08-22-2008, 01:28 AM

A trip down memory lane for people who were reading comics in 1985. Turns out it's really not about that at all. Actually, it makes no difference whether the story takes place in 1985 or 2005. It's just a selling point.

When was it touted as such?

I'll be honest, I'm having a nice trip down memory lane reading it.

crippler

08-22-2008, 01:51 AM

ASM:BND - NWTD is my POW.

hehe

Between this, and ASM:Extra, I'm simply having too much fun reading Spiderman this month.

I'd also like to think that this is the book that moves ASM back into the Marvel U from the weird windowsill it had been sitting on. I just figure they'll show New Ways to Die happening before Secret Invasion and then move the story to the end of the SI arc after it wraps up.

I liked Legion of 3 Worlds, but felt it was pretty dense for someone who can only name a few legionnaires.
Question - Will this book give the Legion a push? The fact that they're also appearing on Smallville this year makes me think DC wants to push the property.

kahunablair

08-22-2008, 02:04 AM

Holy Crap! They revealed the He in "He loves you" from Secret Invasion in Incredible Hercules? Hahaha. That's awesome.

labor_days

08-22-2008, 02:06 AM

Please, spoil me.

I want to know but don't read Herc.

kahunablair

08-22-2008, 02:13 AM

It's just the Skrull god. He is the one that lead the Skrulls that could change shape to kill the non-shape changers. Then he had the Skrulls mission to take over other culture/planet to save them.

labor_days

08-22-2008, 02:20 AM

I was hoping that the "He" was a deep cover Skrull-pouster we have known for years.

But I am good either way.

horatio616

08-22-2008, 02:27 AM

I was hoping that the "He" was a deep cover Skrull-pouster we have known for years.

But I am good either way.

Aww man, yours is much better! Maybe the Skrull god is posing as a hero...

kahunablair

08-22-2008, 02:28 AM

In the context of the story, it makes total sense. I am really digging Herc.

neb

08-22-2008, 02:30 AM

In the context of the story, it makes total sense. I am really digging Herc.

Same. Herc was awesome. And more spoilerage:

Herc killed the Skrull god, which lead to the shut down of the Skrulls book of knowledge, which thusly lead to Reed Richard's escape.

Seriously, SI fans should read this issue.

deadspace

08-22-2008, 08:32 PM

This week was a crappy week for me so I ended up buying a trade on a whim.

I got Sandman Presents: Dead Boy Detectives. I'm about a third of the way through and am quite enjoying it.

The only single issue I bought was Air, which was... readable but pretty poor overall.

dave-accampo

08-22-2008, 09:07 PM

I got Sandman Presents: Dead Boy Detectives. I'm about a third of the way through and am quite enjoying it. Ah, I remember reading this in issues. Good stuff. Brubaker before he was Brubaker. :)

Might I also recommend tracking down his Scene of the Crime miniseries (in trade), also from Vertigo? Good stuff.

gungadin

08-23-2008, 03:42 AM

Okay, this is seriously fucked up. Seriously. But I read all my books, and it was a pretty good, B/B+ week for comics for me... Read a lot of good books... but... wow...

Ghost Rider was my pick of the week.

And now I'm beside myself.

cammyknoxville

08-23-2008, 04:57 AM

Scalped #20 was my pick. Don't be beside yourself that you picked Ghost Rider; Aaron is pure awesome.

humphrey-lee

08-23-2008, 06:28 AM

humphrey-lee

08-23-2008, 06:31 AM

When was it touted as such?

I'll be honest, I'm having a nice trip down memory lane reading it.

Wow. That means you're pretty old...

... just kidding sir whose head mine has a striking resemblance to. ;)

gungadin

08-23-2008, 07:30 AM

Scalped #20 was my pick. Don't be beside yourself that you picked Ghost Rider; Aaron is pure awesome.

I get that. But that doesn't mean I can't be literally beside myself. I never thought I'd ever read a Ghost Rider comic, much less pick it for a pick of the week, or the pick when a Johns book, a Brubaker book, Scalped, a Batgirl book, a JLA book, and a sci-fi cosmic Avengers book came out...

optimus187prime

08-23-2008, 01:33 PM

six-gun

08-23-2008, 05:47 PM

Man, LO3W has the best art Perez has done in a long time

neb

08-24-2008, 01:24 AM

Man, LO3W has the best art Perez has done in a long time

Agreed. I definitely liked this artwork a lot better than his last work on the Brave and the Bold storyline he did.

six-gun

08-24-2008, 01:34 AM

Agreed. I definitely liked this artwork a lot better than his last work on the Brave and the Bold storyline he did.

agree completely

georgexjr

08-24-2008, 04:02 AM

Scalped #20 was my pick. Don't be beside yourself that you picked Ghost Rider; Aaron is pure awesome.

1. i fucking love the goddamn book! if your not reading it you're an asshole. 2. man, was issue 20 depressing. and 19 too.

i know noting about ghostrider. i read spirits of vengeance as a kid, i saw the movie i've had people explain him to me ....not intrested. should i go to instock trades and get jason arron's arcs when they come out?

p.s. i will be picking up black panther as long as he's on it. houdlin gonna pick up after his run is done?

p.p.s. anyone ever read the "quotes" on the back of the black panthers books by such superstars as ice cube and terrance howard? classic.

georgexjr

08-24-2008, 04:03 AM

1. i fucking love the goddamn book! if your not reading it you're an asshole. 2. man, was issue 20 depressing. and 19 too.

i know noting about ghostrider. i read spirits of vengeance as a kid, i saw the movie i've had people explain him to me ....not intrested. should i go to instock trades and get jason arron's arcs when they come out?

p.s. i will be picking up black panther as long as he's on it. houdlin gonna pick up after his run is done?

p.p.s. anyone ever read the "quotes" on the back of the black panthers books by such superstars as ice cube and terrance howard? classic.

wow that post was allover the place.

labor_days

08-24-2008, 06:07 PM

Marvel 1985 is the greatest comic book series in the history of comics.

So good, I feel like I have to stop reading comics when it's over.

labor_days

08-24-2008, 06:12 PM

Also, "Someone call the Avengers!" was the greatest thing I ever read in the comic books.

six-gun

08-24-2008, 07:30 PM

Marvel 1985 is the greatest comic book series in the history of comics.

So good, I feel like I have to stop reading comics when it's over.

I think it's good and all, but I don't see what about it is blowing you away so much.

Seriously though, what about this book do you find so unparalleled? Is it just the subject matter? (if your answer is just "Bullseye put a police baton through a dude's head" then I'd have to agree ;))

labor_days

08-24-2008, 08:41 PM

I like that Millar's premise is being fully realized. He's playing for keeps here and it feels and reads that way.

The dual story of a father trying to relate to his son, the father stuck in adolescence himself- and the shared secret they have of comic books is really great.

Even that Millar is playing to the hilt, making some fairly insightful and surprisingly pointed commentary on those that read comics. The story is really about the people that read comics as oppose to being about comics. Which is a pretty rare thing in the funnies.

Millar is using the device of comics in a realistic setting to draw out those juxtapositions imagined by comic readers.

I love what Marvel 1985 has to say as a work and the way Millar is going about saying these things.

Also, Edward's art is magnificent. Goddamn magnificent.

humphrey-lee

08-25-2008, 01:05 AM

Marvel 1985 is the greatest comic book series in the history of comics.

So good, I feel like I have to stop reading comics when it's over.

Mmm, hyperbolicious!

labor_days

08-25-2008, 10:36 AM

Marvel 1985 cures blindness and cancer as well.

The book has it all, what can I say?

iSteve

08-25-2008, 06:57 PM

Marvel 1985 cures blindness and cancer as well.

The book has it all, what can I say?

Labor, have you ever heard of the word "overstatement"? :)

jimski

08-25-2008, 08:12 PM

I must say... I can't get enough Spider-Man, but this most recent issue left my socks firmly unrocked. There was plenty to like within its pages, but it seemed like half recap, half stale characterization of the Thunderbolts. I guess you get a little whiplash when stone cold killers go from being written by Eliis to being written by Slott.

optimus187prime

08-25-2008, 08:30 PM

cam-

08-25-2008, 09:24 PM

Well I think I've settled on Brave and Bold as my pick.

So. Much. Fun.

That said, 1985 was reaaaaal close.

And you know what? For an issue that was basically just a fight (and a probably never to be realized dream of animal man on the team) I really enjoyed JLA.

kahunablair

08-25-2008, 09:37 PM

I know most people could give a hoot, but I finally found the answer to something that's been bothering me.

In X-Men #501, they were driving around in a new "Warrington" concept car. I knew I had seen that design before, which shouldn't suprise anyone since the artist is Greg Land.

Anyways, the real life car that Land copied is the Jeep Renegade.

http://www.uploadandgo.com/images/Jeep Renegade.PNG
It is a "Green" concept car, just like in the book with a 110 mpg hybrid engine.

Goofy little sidenote, I know, but it was bothering me.