View Full Version : Stop Motion Animation!!!
starfish
08-27-2008, 04:54 AM
I know you guys are not terribly familiar with the whole stop-motion thing, so I wanted to fill you in on what you're missing!
LAIKA!! The former Will Vinton Studios ( remember the California Raisins ads we grew up with?? ) is a big advertising company but they're also releasing their first feature stop-motion film named Coraline this November by the director of The Nightmare Before Christmas, Henry Selick. A friend of mine is animating on it, and I had the extreme fortune of visiting the set. It looks INCREDIBLE! The story is actually by Neil Gaimin, and it looks like his usual unique brand of creepy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GkMa040rtw
I really wouldn't say that Stop Motion is a dead or dying art. In fact, I think that people value it now even more than they used to because it's NOT CG, which is a matter of taste, but that's the way it goes. Another friend of mine is animating on Robot Chicken for Cartoon Network. Also, recently, they started an animation festival in Portland that has a big emphasis in Stop Motion called Platform. I believe Harryhausen made an appearence a couple years ago at Platform, I don't know if he goes every year or not.
Jeff was right in mentioning Aardman as well. Their show Creature Comforts: America did poorly in ratings but I thought it was GREAT. It's just hilarious. The cockroaches are totally my favorite. Oh god.. and the PENGUIN!!! THE PENGUIN!! hahaha.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dtk5qs3HvlI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxyvs1miQM0&feature=related
blacksymbiote
08-27-2008, 06:02 AM
I always liked the stop motion music videos that Tool put out a few years ago. Creepy, but cool.
satori
08-27-2008, 06:42 AM
I did my first stop motion course and film at the age of 12 in 1980 using super 8 film. Things have changed so drastically and made it so incredibly easy that I'm surprised that more of this stuff doesn't exist.
starfish
08-27-2008, 06:55 AM
I think the reason more of this doesn't exist is because it is an expensive and slow process, so movie studios are wary of that. Plus the people who can do it are few and far between, but those who can usually are extremely devoted to the art and will travel huge distances to work on a project like Coraline.
And I hated those Tool videos! But then again I just thought they were wayyyy too creepy, so it's a matter of taste I suppose, haha.
Did anyone watch the Creature Comforts: USA show when it aired on Fox?
the art is not dead. Robot Chicken is keeping it alive for the kiddies.
dolson
08-27-2008, 03:19 PM
Someone needs to make a video game that has all the characters animated like stop motion... Or maybe one already exists. I'm thinking a title for the PSN, XBLA, and WiiWare would do.
Someone needs to make a video game that has all the characters animated like stop motion... Or maybe one already exists. I'm thinking a title for the PSN, XBLA, and WiiWare would do.
Neverhood is an excellent example of stop motion goodness in a video game.
there is also the Clay fighter series and Primal Rage. all stop motion stuff.
dolson
08-27-2008, 03:52 PM
Neverhood is an excellent example of stop motion goodness in a video game.
there is also the Clay fighter series and Primal Rage. all stop motion stuff.
A clip from Neverhood:
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/145293.html
I hadn't heard of that game before.
Anyhow, I was thinking, imagine if LittleBigPlanet had been done in claymation? Instead of using cardboard and such, you could just use different colors of clay... Man, there's potential for another game to compete with LBP right there.
A clip from Neverhood:
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/145293.html
I hadn't heard of that game before.
Anyhow, I was thinking, imagine if LittleBigPlanet had been done in claymation? Instead of using cardboard and such, you could just use different colors of clay... Man, there's potential for another game to compete with LBP right there.
yea, Neverhood is awesome. too bad there wasn't any sequels or anything. very well done.
well, if LBP has clay textures, you could make your own stop motion game! (well, sorta)
satori
08-27-2008, 04:10 PM
I think the reason more of this doesn't exist is because it is an expensive and slow process, so movie studios are wary of that.
Honestly it's not expensive or difficult. You can start with something as simple as a web cam, you just need to be able to take single frames. I currently use our Mini DV, but I have other friends that use a 3CCD Camera. Yes it is a slow process, but any good hobbyist animator can do it.
iggystar
08-27-2008, 04:17 PM
Primal Rage was stop motion?
I loved Clay Fighter.
Stop motion should really be used more.
Primal Rage was stop motion?
I loved Clay Fighter.
Stop motion should really be used more.
yea, the stop motion for Primal Rage was very slick in the arcades. the home versions are sadly disgusting ports of the original.
dolson
08-27-2008, 05:04 PM
Honestly it's not expensive or difficult. You can start with something as simple as a web cam, you just need to be able to take single frames. I currently use our Mini DV, but I have other friends that use a 3CCD Camera. Yes it is a slow process, but any good hobbyist animator can do it.
There are programs you can get for such projects. I know a few for Linux, and some you can get for Windows/Mac too.
http://developer.skolelinux.no/info/studentgrupper/2005-hig-stopmotion/index.php?side=5
http://developer.skolelinux.no/info/studentgrupper/2005-hig-stopmotion/project_management/webpage/screenshots/snapshot5_thumb.png
http://www.mondobeyondo.com/projects/stopmojo/
http://www.mondobeyondo.com/projects/stopmojo/images/stopmojo_400.jpg
A few months back I thought about working on something, but then I wasn't sure what to actually DO.
It'd be cool if Sony made a stopmotion app for the PlayStation Eye... Maybe just a mode in EyeCreate. I'd be more inclined to work on it in my living room than on my PC upstairs.
satori
08-27-2008, 05:39 PM
you know, I hadn't tested it, but I just thought it was a no brainer that Sony would of already included this. I'm honestly a little shocked. Logitech used to include stop motion software with most of their retail web cams.
dolson
08-27-2008, 08:33 PM
you know, I hadn't tested it, but I just thought it was a no brainer that Sony would of already included this. I'm honestly a little shocked. Logitech used to include stop motion software with most of their retail web cams.
Maybe they did? I haven't looked.. But I wouldn't have expected it.
starfish
08-27-2008, 09:04 PM
Honestly it's not expensive or difficult. You can start with something as simple as a web cam, you just need to be able to take single frames. I currently use our Mini DV, but I have other friends that use a 3CCD Camera. Yes it is a slow process, but any good hobbyist animator can do it.
Yeah I wasn't talking about expensive or difficult for hobbyists, I was talking about for studios. You can take a webcam and shoot a ball of clay on your desk, sure. But the kind of refined character animation we see from studios like Laika takes an insane amount of talent and experience and those rigs are EXTREMELY expensive and take a lot of skill to create.
This expense and time and talent is the reason I think there aren't more stop motion studios.
Bad animation is always easy :P
gonzooo
08-27-2008, 09:12 PM
I don't get the charm of stop-motion animation, to be honest. A stop-motion movie can be as good as any other movie, but it has nothing to do with the stop-motion part for me.
But then again, I also don't get why a hand written letter is more "charming" than an e-mail. I guess I just have this thing where I don't think a more tiresome process equals a more charming product.
satori
08-27-2008, 10:24 PM
Yeah I wasn't talking about expensive or difficult for hobbyists, I was talking about for studios. You can take a webcam and shoot a ball of clay on your desk, sure. But the kind of refined character animation we see from studios like Laika takes an insane amount of talent and experience and those rigs are EXTREMELY expensive and take a lot of skill to create.
This expense and time and talent is the reason I think there aren't more stop motion studios.
Bad animation is always easy :P
well aren't you the little primadonna. This was made in 1977 with next to no money and an extremely low end camera. It is considered one of the greats and is still studied in most animation classes.
http://www.nfb.ca/includes/player/player_full.php?_onfplr_sel=viewfull&film=id=12503&formats=default&speeds=default&use_cc=no&use_dv=no&f=flash&t=normal&s=hv&pm=rtmp%3A%2F%2Fflash.onf.ca%2Fcollection%2Ffilms% 2F300_707.flv&w=640&h=512&c=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nfb.ca%2Fincludes%2Fplayer%2Fnf b_global_player.css&pp=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nfb.ca%2Fincludes%2Fplayer%2Fo nf_U_plr_v1_full.swf&cn=objan&ct=2500000&ttl=_full&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nfb.ca%2Fincludes%2Fplayer%2F&lg=en&ss=Films%20%E0%20voir&pmvroot=%2Fvar%2Fnfb%2Fapache%2Fhtdocs%2Fphplib%2F&pmvurl=%2Fstats%2F&pmvsid=20&pmvpage=Visionnements%2FLe+ch%5C342teau+de+sable+% 7C+The+Sand+Castle&pmvglob=0
mrbook
08-28-2008, 06:20 AM
I don't get the charm of stop-motion animation, to be honest. A stop-motion movie can be as good as any other movie, but it has nothing to do with the stop-motion part for me.
But then again, I also don't get why a hand written letter is more "charming" than an e-mail. I guess I just have this thing where I don't think a more tiresome process equals a more charming product.
You are right, in the respect that it's not the materials, but the creativity. The charm of stop-motion for me, is the hand-crafted nature of it. If done well, stop-motion is amazing and unique from the other forms of animation. But I don't think it's "more charming" simply because it is stop-motion. You definitely get your fair share of the bad too. The same also goes for hand-drawn, CGI, or cel-shaded.
mrbook
08-28-2008, 06:21 AM
the art is not dead. Robot Chicken is keeping it alive for the kiddies.
Excuse me. The kiddies? Whoever said Robot Chicken was for kids?
Excuse me. The kiddies? Whoever said Robot Chicken was for kids?
just sayin that Robot Chicken is what the kids know about most when it comes to stop motion these days (aside from Rudolph) ;)
starfish
08-28-2008, 08:05 AM
well aren't you the little primadonna. This was made in 1977 with next to no money and an extremely low end camera. It is considered one of the greats and is still studied in most animation classes.
http://www.nfb.ca/includes/player/player_full.php?_onfplr_sel=viewfull&film=id=12503&formats=default&speeds=default&use_cc=no&use_dv=no&f=flash&t=normal&s=hv&pm=rtmp%3A%2F%2Fflash.onf.ca%2Fcollection%2Ffilms% 2F300_707.flv&w=640&h=512&c=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nfb.ca%2Fincludes%2Fplayer%2Fnf b_global_player.css&pp=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nfb.ca%2Fincludes%2Fplayer%2Fo nf_U_plr_v1_full.swf&cn=objan&ct=2500000&ttl=_full&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nfb.ca%2Fincludes%2Fplayer%2F&lg=en&ss=Films%20%E0%20voir&pmvroot=%2Fvar%2Fnfb%2Fapache%2Fhtdocs%2Fphplib%2F&pmvurl=%2Fstats%2F&pmvsid=20&pmvpage=Visionnements%2FLe+ch%5C342teau+de+sable+% 7C+The+Sand+Castle&pmvglob=0
what? how am i a primadonna? I'm still talking about character animation for features, clearly this is a bottomless argument...
that animation is beautiful looking.. and this is awesome too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nv51FR0t3Io but that's not what I was talking about.
dolson
08-28-2008, 04:28 PM
you know, I hadn't tested it, but I just thought it was a no brainer that Sony would of already included this. I'm honestly a little shocked. Logitech used to include stop motion software with most of their retail web cams.
I guess they DID include stop-motion, I just hadn't noticed it. It's even mentioned on the blog post back almost a year ago:
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2007/10/11/eyecreate-in-action/
satori
08-28-2008, 05:02 PM
what? how am i a primadonna? I'm still talking about character animation for features, clearly this is a bottomless argument...
that animation is beautiful looking.. and this is awesome too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nv51FR0t3Io but that's not what I was talking about.
lol, calling you a primadonna because you think that only good animation can be done expensively. If there weren't hobbyists the art would never of got off the ground. I was just saying that you can make some amazing things with very little. Wallace and Gromit could be made for very little money.
....also, you said bottomless....
eight_bit_panda
08-28-2008, 07:05 PM
yeah stop motion animation when done right is amazing. i just graduated from college as an animator and i dabbled in stop motion for a semester. I've got two really cool armature puppets that were relatively cheap to make, and the two shorts i made cost me close to nothing to make if you are using stuff you just find laying around to make sets and stuff. Things can get really expensive really fast though if you wanted to. Building elaborate sets/puppets can really cost you, and depending on how fast you want it done you may need to hire a lot of animators to get it done in a timely fashion. If anyone has time i really recommend watching the special features on corpse bride or nightmare before christmas... they have some stuff on there that really shows the scale of this stuff.
dolson
08-28-2008, 07:31 PM
I think a horror-type game, like Resident Evil or Silent Hill, but with just stop-motion enemies, would be cool.
starfish
08-28-2008, 07:42 PM
lol, calling you a primadonna because you think that only good animation can be done expensively. If there weren't hobbyists the art would never of got off the ground. I was just saying that you can make some amazing things with very little. Wallace and Gromit could be made for very little money.
....also, you said bottomless....
No, you misread, I said BAD animation is always easy. Not cheap animation. And I don't think you're really familiar with the in's and out's of animation if you think Wallace and Gromit could be inexpensive to make. Those weren't just clay models running around... there's a lot more to it than that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3avBizJRQqM
Extensive set painting, elaborate armatures. Good motion can be achieved whatever your tools, but TV and movie production quality films call for much more elaborate methods. So no, Wallace and Gromit could not have been made for "very little."
bottomless bottomless bottomless..
starfish
08-28-2008, 07:43 PM
I think a horror-type game, like Resident Evil or Silent Hill, but with just stop-motion enemies, would be cool.
I think a side-scroller could do it, but a 3D game would require some pretty elaborate video capture to film stop-motion so it could be viewed from any angle. Also, armatures and rigs would get in the way.
But I could definitely see an entirely stop motion side-scroller game... in fact I feel like I've seen that somewhere before... hrmmm...
starfish
08-28-2008, 07:46 PM
Also, here's another great kids TV show from the folks at Aardman:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeifsOvIJz8
dolson
08-28-2008, 09:08 PM
I think a side-scroller could do it, but a 3D game would require some pretty elaborate video capture to film stop-motion so it could be viewed from any angle. Also, armatures and rigs would get in the way.
But I could definitely see an entirely stop motion side-scroller game... in fact I feel like I've seen that somewhere before... hrmmm...
The effect could be done in 3D without using actual filmed stop-motion techniques. Sorta like skipping frames of regular animation.
starfish
08-29-2008, 04:35 AM
The effect could be done in 3D without using actual filmed stop-motion techniques. Sorta like skipping frames of regular animation.
oh yeah that might work... A friend of mine is working on an animation script for Maya that causes a natural jitter on animation that mimics stop motion... cool stuff.
stubadub
08-29-2008, 05:19 AM
Anyone familiar with The Brothers Quay? They have some of the most interesting stop motion animation I've ever seen. If you like the Tool videos you should give them a shot. They were the primary influence on those videos.
starfish
08-29-2008, 06:08 AM
Brothers Quay freak me the eff out!
Although I like creepy things, like Coraline. But Bros. Quay is just too much for me! haha.
satori
08-29-2008, 06:18 AM
No, you misread, I said BAD animation is always easy. Not cheap animation. And I don't think you're really familiar with the in's and out's of animation if you think Wallace and Gromit could be inexpensive to make. Those weren't just clay models running around... there's a lot more to it than that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3avBizJRQqM
Extensive set painting, elaborate armatures. Good motion can be achieved whatever your tools, but TV and movie production quality films call for much more elaborate methods. So no, Wallace and Gromit could not have been made for "very little."
bottomless bottomless bottomless..
Please go back and read your post, you said "expensive and slow", not bad. Most stop animation is going to be slow regardless so I don't even consider that. Creature Comforts, the forerunner to Wallace and Grommit was not at all expensive to make. The first one wasn't that expensive, time consuming yes, but not expensive.
The models are essentially the same as the ones from the castle...
...it's only bottomless because you're splitting hairs when the crux here is that it's not expensive to make a good stop animation. Perhaps you should be more interested in encouraging folks to get into the medium rather than trying to scare people into the supposed expense of making a quality short film.