Almanac: Global cooling may be underway. Token user scratches head.

[secret-steve-crumbles]

The Old Farmer's Almanac is going further out on a limb than usual this year, not only forecasting a cooler winter, but looking ahead decades to suggest we are in for global cooling, not warming.

Based on the same time-honored, complex calculations it uses to predict weather, the Almanac hits the newsstands on Tuesday saying a study of solar activity and corresponding records on ocean temperatures and climate point to a cooler, not warmer, climate, for perhaps the next half century.

"We at the Almanac are among those who believe that sunspot cycles and their effects on oceans correlate with climate changes," writes meteorologist and climatologist Joseph D'Aleo. "Studying these and other factor suggests that cold, not warm, climate may be our future."

It remains to be seen, said Editor-in-Chief Jud Hale, whether the human impact on global temperatures will cancel out or override any cooling trend.

"We say that if human beings were not contributing to global warming, it would become real cold in the next 50 years," Hale said.

Full Article (http://www.usatoday.com/weather/news/2008-09-09-farmers-almanac_N.htm).

[mikec]

If you have Showtime, pay TV network in the US, there is a show called "Penn & Teller's BullShit" and in one episode they cover global warming. In the beginning Penn reads a list of weather issues and then sites that they were from a 1974 issue of Time Magazine where some scientists were saying that we were heading for global cooling. Point of the intro, scientists aren't always right.


As for the Farmer's Almanac, some say that as part of global warming, the oceans will get colder and we will get chilled.

[secret-steve-crumbles]

Point of the intro, scientists aren't always right.No kidding. That's the point. Now, less talk, more changing your light bulbs!

[mikec]

From the BBC: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7376301.stm

The Earth's temperature may stay roughly the same for a decade, as natural climate cycles enter a cooling phase, scientists have predicted.

The key to the new prediction is the natural cycle of ocean temperatures called the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation (AMO), which is closely related to the warm currents that bring heat from the tropics to the shores of Europe.

The cause of the oscillation is not well understood, but the cycle appears to come round about every 60 to 70 years

Ever since man has started evolving we have influenced the earth. Knocking trees down, learning how to control fire up to today. The only real way to change the man made part of the equation is if 4 to 5 billion people were to not be here. This is the hard part.

[tokenuser]

Grumbles ... no head scratching here. Because it is cooler in Des Moine does not mean that it is not hotter in Dubbo, Dubai, or Downtown LA.

Interesting interview on HDNet last night with a climatologist with NOAA that works with hurricane models. Basic thing is, we are getting fewer storms, but the ones we are getting are stronger than in the past.

I've said it before, but even if you don't beleive in climate change (freaking "we will solve the world problems by prayer" neocon ;) ) change your light bulbs - you use less energy, you save cash. Inflate your tires properly, you get better milage, you save cash. Recycle your garbage, council doesn't need to spend tax dollars to build a new refuse centre, you save cash.

Being environmentally responsible is bipartisan. If the conservatives can save a few bucks - great. If the treehuggers can feel good about themselves - great. If it reduces our impact on the environment, thats just icing on the cake.

[bigshotprof]

So a vast majority of the climate scientists in the world say one thing, and the Farmer's Almanac says another. Is that supposed to be a tie? Maybe we should get out the ouija board for to break the deadlock.

[esophagus]

"We say that if human beings were not contributing to global warming, it would become real cold in the next 50 years," Hale said.[/I]
Did everyone not read this part. Basically what the Almanac is saying is that there would be a global cooling if people stopped doing the things we do.

We are though. So no cooling.

[phatlip12]

"We say that if human beings were not contributing to global warming, it would become real cold in the next 50 years," Hale said.


Oh, so does that mean you're saying global warming is real now? :)

[secret-steve-crumbles]

I wonder what kind of mileage the cavemen got during their "global warming" period. Huh... I wish we'd stop driving on Mars too.

[guytheninja]

So a vast majority of the climate scientists in the world say one thing, and the Farmer's Almanac says another. Is that supposed to be a tie? Maybe we should get out the ouija board for to break the deadlock.

Excellent idea professor. We will call this method the "new science" :D.

[bigshotprof]

I wonder what kind of mileage the cavemen got during their "global warming" period. Huh... I wish we'd stop driving on Mars too.

By that logic, since forest fires sometimes occur in nature, humans never start them nor should feel responsible to put them out.

[secret-steve-crumbles]

By that logic, since forest fires sometimes occur in nature, humans never start them nor should feel responsible to put them out.Oh man, you're totally right, I wish I had thought of that. You made a good point. OK, you win, let's go find the sun's thermostat and turn it down. See how you are confused still by your "logic."

[bigshotprof]

Oh man, you're totally right, I wish I had thought of that. You made a good point. OK, you win, let's go find the sun's thermostat and turn it down. See how you are confused still by your "logic."

The point is that a condition having arisen in the past naturally (over thousands of years) is i no way proof or even a good argument that it in not being caused --or at least exacerbated--by humans now.

And even if its not, wouldn't the "conservative" position be to play it safe, just in case?

[kahunablair]

So... The Farmer's Almanac is considered a reputable source for weather now?

[secret-steve-crumbles]

The point is that a condition having arisen in the past naturally (over thousands of years) is i no way proof or even a good argument that it in not being caused --or at least exacerbated--by humans now.OMG, I couldn't even make it to the end of that sentence without my brain exploding. Can you please reword that. Since Obama isn't in power yet, make it in English please.

And even if its not, wouldn't the "conservative" position be to play it safe, just in case?There's nothing wrong with playing it safe. Again, this is the big difference I have between Democrats and Pubs. Democrats can't take a disagreement as "oh well, they disagree." They take a disagreement as: "Who can we elect to pass a law to force him to agree with us."

Be green all you want with your other tree hugging friends (http://www.break.com/index/hippies-wail-for-dead-trees.html). It's a free country. For the time being.

So... The Farmer's Almanac is considered a reputable source for weather now?
Al Gore is?

[kahunablair]

There's nothing wrong with playing it safe. Again, this is the big difference I have between Democrats and Pubs. Democrats can't take a disagreement as "oh well, they disagree." They take a disagreement as: "Who can we elect to pass a law to force him to agree with us."
I know what you mean. Like with Abortion or Gay Marriage. Oh....wait... nevermind.


Al Gore is?
Al Gore is telling people about the findings of scientists.
The Almanac is a periodical that is siting itself.

Plus, Al Gore invented the internet, so he must be right!

[secret-steve-crumbles]

I know what you mean. Like with Abortion or Gay Marriage. Oh....wait... nevermind.I have no problem with Gay marriage. I do have a problem with abortion though.

Al Gore is telling people about the findings of scientists.Oh, man, check mate. If only there were scientists saying it was all bullshit. If only. You're acting as if it's 100% proven and everyone is ignoring it.

[tokenuser]

So... The Farmer's Almanac is considered a reputable source for weather now?For the purposes of farming, yes it is. Expected rainfall +/- a percentage, expected temperatures +/- a percentage. Sunrise. Sunset. Expected onset of the seasons.

Yeah. For farming, it IS accurate enough.

The margin of error is pretty high, but still provides enough accuracy to know when you should be planting soy, harvesting corn, etc.

It is also a micro level analysis of the weather. There is nothing "global" about it.

[masherscf]

There's no question that the earth is warmer. There's just too much data that supports it. Maybe an act of god will turn it around.

Otherwise, the prognosis is pretty gloomy. If it isn't man-made, there's nothing we can do about it. If it is man-made, watered down agreements like Kyoto will never be enough. Correcting it will take a reduction of energy and industrial growth equivalent to a massive world-wide depression...ie, it isn't going to happen.

Man-made or not, we're fucked. If there was ever a time for prayer, it's now.

[secret-steve-crumbles]

For the purposes of farming, yes it is. Expected rainfall +/- a percentage, expected temperatures +/- a percentage. Sunrise. Sunset. Expected onset of the seasons.

Yeah. For farming, it IS accurate enough.

The margin of error is pretty high, but still provides enough accuracy to know when you should be planting soy, harvesting corn, etc.

It is also a micro level analysis of the weather. There is nothing "global" about it.Ah, token, I expected your citizen scientist reference again.

Man-made or not, we're fucked. If there was ever a time for prayer, it's now.Something tells me we're going to be just fine.

[tokenuser]

Something tells me we're going to be just fine.Yep ... because while you are pushing for drilling for oil in ANWR, the rest of the world said "shit, this is bad" and has done something about it.

Suddenly Mr "Dont-Expect-Handouts" has had his ass saved by the government ... of another country.

[secret-steve-crumbles]

Yep ... because while you are pushing for drilling for oil in ANWR, the rest of the world said "shit, this is bad" and has done something about it.

Suddenly Mr "Dont-Expect-Handouts" has had his ass saved by the government ... of another country.Until you can provide actual documents that aren't from the "3am infomercial you can become a scientist too" and are 100% fact, let me know. In fact, you'd become rich (http://ultimateglobalwarmingchallenge.com/). Second thought, you may want to steer clear. Because it wouldn't be fair that you got that money and not me.

[esophagus]

I just thought I'd help you prepare for this global cooling we're going to have since global warming is obviously a lie.

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n243/esophaguss/woolyrepublican.jpg

[secret-steve-crumbles]

I just thought I'd help you prepare for this global cooling we're going to have since global warming is obviously a lie.Well, I guess if I had said global warming was a lie.... but I didn't.

I'm simply saying man isn't causing it, our sun is. Hence, Mars getting warmer too.

It's not a coincidence that the sun has gone unusually long without producing any sunspots (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080609124551.htm) and now Earth is getting cooler.

[tokenuser]

Until you can provide actual documents that aren't from the "3am infomercial you can become a scientist too" and are 100% fact, let me know. In fact, you'd become rich (http://ultimateglobalwarmingchallenge.com/). Second thought, you may want to steer clear. Because it wouldn't be fair that you got that money and not me.For a minute there, I thought you were going to point me to Mr Dino's page. Thank God that people like that can instill a sense of awe in people. Make you want to take up theological science.

If I won the prize, you'd benefit - because I would be paying my taxes.

[esophagus]

Well, I guess if I had said global warming was a lie.... but I didn't.

I'm simply saying man isn't causing it, our sun is. Hence, Mars getting warmer too.Oh. I guess I misunderstood.

[guytheninja]

For a minute there, I thought you were going to point me to Mr Dino's page. Thank God that people like that can instill a sense of awe in people. Make you want to take up theological science.

If I won the prize, you'd benefit - because I would be paying my taxes.

I don't know much about Dr. Dino --- accept that he is in the "Pen".
I'm much more interested in learning about "Scientific Theology" myself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Scientific_Theology

[rabidbadger]

So a vast majority of the climate scientists in the world say one thing, and the Farmer's Almanac says another. Is that supposed to be a tie? Maybe we should get out the ouija board for to break the deadlock.

I love you so much right now. :p

[rabidbadger]

.... The only real way to change the man made part of the equation is if 4 to 5 billion people were to not be here. This is the hard part.


I know one xib, er, forum member who would agree.


But hey, ants change their environment, too. BUT they aint changing the climate.

[rabidbadger]

OMG, I couldn't even make it to the end of that sentence without my brain exploding. Can you please reword that. Since Obama isn't in power yet, make it in English please.

There's nothing wrong with playing it safe. Again, this is the big difference I have between Democrats and Pubs. Democrats can't take a disagreement as "oh well, they disagree." They take a disagreement as: "Who can we elect to pass a law to force him to agree with us."

Be green all you want with your other tree hugging friends (http://www.break.com/index/hippies-wail-for-dead-trees.html). It's a free country. For the time being.


Al Gore is?

You lost me forever with this post. In SOOOO many ways. Goodbye. On ignore.

[guytheninja]

I love you so much right now. :p

Actually Rabid, I think Brian Brushwood has a magic trick involving climatologists, ouija boards, and the Farmer's Almanac. Well, if my memory is incorrect, he SHOULD have a magic trick featuring these items/individuals :D.

[rabidbadger]

Actually Rabid, I think Brian Brushwood has a magic trick involving climatologists, ouija boards, and the Farmer's Almanac. Well, if my memory is incorrect, he SHOULD have a magic trick featuring these items/individuals :D.

I gotta better trick than Brian could EVER do. I made crumbles vanish. At least to me. haha.

[diane]

You asked for real scientific data that wasn't from 3am scientists. These are from just one reputable journal that has all of the data reviewed and all submissions must be verifable or they are not accepted and published. It took me less than 30 seconds to find them. So here are five to start with:

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v421/n6918/abs/nature01333.html
http://www.nature.com/embor/journal/v2/n9/full/embor328.html
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v330/n6144/abs/330127a0.html
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v400/n6740/full/400098b0.html
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v435/n7046/full/nature03717.html

As for whether it is real or not think about this, all the things that cause global warming cause other problems too ranging from Asthma to fuel prices. To argue that these issues don't need to be addressed is economically stupid. There is a reason that areas that have coal plants and/or high amounts of traffic have an ever increasing amount of residents developing Asthma. There is a reason why rate of disease and infection is higher near open trash dumps than away from them in the same city (bugs multiply there and spread out infecting people). Looking for ways to improve transportation and addressing trash would have a positive impact on peoples health. This in turn lowers health care costs, absenteeism and presenteeism for employers. This raises the productivity level making companies more profitable and raising the standard of living. This is econ 101. There is a reason why clean water and economic development go hand in hand.

Now on a group that you might take a bit more seriously, the military. I listen to the Pentagon Channel follow RSS feeds from the Air Force, Pentagon, and DARPA. Here are some things that I have heard over the years. Since I don't keep these things I had to google them to pull them up. The first is from snopes since they verify things.

http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=34434
http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,132519,00.html
http://www.stormingmedia.us/28/2832/A283224.html
http://www.stormingmedia.us/09/0983/A098363.html?searchTerms=global~warming
http://www.stormingmedia.us/04/0422/A042284.html?searchTerms=global~warming
http://www.stormingmedia.us/06/0653/A065364.html?searchTerms=global~warming

There are a ton more like current projects, various scientific experiments the military has commissioned concerning the artic to better plan for defense, etc. But this is a good start.

[rabidbadger]

You asked for real scientific data that wasn't from 3am scientists. These are from just one reputable journal that has all of the data reviewed and all submissions must be verifable or they are not accepted and published. It took me less than 30 seconds to find them. So here are five to start with:

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v421/n6918/abs/nature01333.html
http://www.nature.com/embor/journal/v2/n9/full/embor328.html
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v330/n6144/abs/330127a0.html
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v400/n6740/full/400098b0.html
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v435/n7046/full/nature03717.html

As for whether it is real or not think about this, all the things that cause global warming cause other problems too ranging from Asthma to fuel prices. To argue that these issues don't need to be addressed is economically stupid. There is a reason that areas that have coal plants and/or high amounts of traffic have an ever increasing amount of residents developing Asthma. There is a reason why rate of disease and infection is higher near open trash dumps than away from them in the same city (bugs multiply there and spread out infecting people). Looking for ways to improve transportation and addressing trash would have a positive impact on peoples health. This in turn lowers health care costs, absenteeism and presenteeism for employers. This raises the productivity level making companies more profitable and raising the standard of living. This is econ 101. There is a reason why clean water and economic development go hand in hand.

Now on a group that you might take a bit more seriously, the military. I listen to the Pentagon Channel follow RSS feeds from the Air Force, Pentagon, and DARPA. Here are some things that I have heard over the years. Since I don't keep these things I had to google them to pull them up. The first is from snopes since they verify things.

http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=34434
http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,132519,00.html
http://www.stormingmedia.us/28/2832/A283224.html
http://www.stormingmedia.us/09/0983/A098363.html?searchTerms=global~warming
http://www.stormingmedia.us/04/0422/A042284.html?searchTerms=global~warming
http://www.stormingmedia.us/06/0653/A065364.html?searchTerms=global~warming

There are a ton more like current projects, various scientific experiments the military has commissioned concerning the artic to better plan for defense, etc. But this is a good start.


That's a lot of work for someone who will never listen to anyone othere than Rush. But so ya know. I appreciate the effort. And checking links.

[diane]

That's a lot of work for someone who will never listen to anyone othere than Rush. But so ya know. I appreciate the effort. And checking links.

Well I am a firm believer in calling people for being parrots. If you claim to argue a position and yet don't cite any resources or facts to back it up, all you are doing is repeating what you heard other people say. And unless they can produce evidence to back up their point of view, then they are not credible.

I have always told my kid trust, but verify. He would not have just left it with those links. But then again, I have always seen the fair witness role model for the way to raise Anakin when dealing with the difference between facts and opinion. Though Stranger in a Strange Land is a bit odd as a book, the concept of a fair witness, is actually really smart. Don't assume things without doing the research. Don't assume the house is painted entirely white on the outside if you have only seen one side. And certainly don't trust someone who says it is without verifing their credibility (someone who drives by it everyday would not count, a friend of the family who goes their for BBQs would be). You have no idea how much money this has saved me in the long run because Anakin doesn't fall for stupid advertising.

I wish they would teach critical thinking and logic in at least high school. Granted it might kill the advertising market.

[yssman]

Hey, crazy rational thought idea...

What the hell is the matter with being ecologically responsible? Forget the whole point of global warming for a moment, why would you NOT want to use paper products that are bio-degradable versus that of petroleum-based products that are not? Why NOT have better fuel efficiency for your car, or better energy efficiency for your home?

Considering that it all comes as a MINOR cost difference to the consumer, and for that matter, has actually created and spurred industry in our country, I'm still not finding a reason NOT to make choices that are better for the sustainability of our world.

There is a reasonable middle-ground to be found here, and by no means is it an attack on people who do not view global warming as an issue to suggest that we do something that is otherwise better for the planet.

[tokenuser]

What the hell is the matter with being ecologically responsible? Forget the whole point of global warming for a moment, why would you NOT want to use paper products that are bio-degradable versus that of petroleum-based products that are not? Why NOT have better fuel efficiency for your car, or better energy efficiency for your home?

That is something I keep saying ...

I've said it before, but even if you don't believe in climate change change your light bulbs - you use less energy, you save cash. Inflate your tires properly, you get better milage, you save cash. Recycle your garbage, council doesn't need to spend tax dollars to build a new refuse centre, you save cash.

Being environmentally responsible is bipartisan. If the conservatives can save a few bucks - great. If the treehuggers can feel good about themselves - great. If it reduces our impact on the environment, thats just icing on the cake.

Unfortunately, some people see it as being a political issue, and not a quality of life issue.

[comhcinc]

well it really all comes down to the fact that the repubilcans are in the pockets of the big engery companies who are not concerned with long term effects. only short term profits.

[guytheninja]

That is something I keep saying ...

Unfortunately, some people see it as being a political issue, and not a quality of life issue.

I doubt that. Costco lines their isles with fluorescent bulbs, and I'm sure they will do the same as soon as LED versions become commercially viable.

[yssman]

well it really all comes down to the fact that the repubilcans are in the pockets of the big engery companies who are not concerned with long term effects. only short term profits.

Well, some of the Democrats are too... Lets be a little more fair. BUT, yes, your point stands nevertheless.

Something that has bothered me lately has been the staggering drop in the price of oil. Certainly a drop in demand has caused it, but in less than six months? While prices continue to drop with all of these hurricanes?

...Thats when I begin to feel that "something is up."

[rabidbadger]

hell, yeah, "something" is up. .

argh, too late to go into detail right now, but hold on. Got stats, facts, an stuff for ya.

[cucumberboy]

I suggest you all take an hour or two (yeah that much) and read up on the different theories on global warming. I focused mainly on the theory of global warming caused by green house gases and the theory of solar radiation affecting the atmosphere.

The latter one turned out to be absolute jumping f*cking shit balls. Really. Take equal time for both theories and look at some of the debates they've had. The theory of solar rays wasn't a puzzle with missing pieces. It was the two or three pieces - and the puzzle was frickin' missing...

[ariastar]

I'm not worried about global warming, and here's why:

Long before we had our vehicles and fancy houses and whatnot, there have been times where the weather was warmer for several years, and times where it was cooler. This is nothing new.

[tokenuser]

I'm not worried about global warming, and here's why:

Long before we had our vehicles and fancy houses and whatnot, there have been times where the weather was warmer for several years, and times where it was cooler. This is nothing new.You should be concerned. Those changes were relatively slow to occur, and allowed migration of tribal populations, changing plants, evolution.

What is happening now is accelerated change. Instead of a drip slowly filling a bucket, we have a hose shoved in there. That causes extremes in weather patterns to happen.

For example there are regular tidal patterns. No big deal.
There are king tide patterns. Again, no big deal.
Now add in water surge from strong winds. Tides are still up/down regular as clockwork, but we have water coming further inland.
Now add in rising water levels due to polar melting. Water is coming in further, tides are able to move higher, more damage occurs.

An extreme example of that is what is happening with hurricanes/cyclones.
Always been there. Evidence is indicating that the number of hurricanes might actually be decreasing, but their intensity is increasing. Why? The magic mix for creation of a hurricane is water with a surface temperature of 78F, and a low pressure system. We now have larger pockets of 78F water in the equatorial oceans. That means that a hurricane can "feed" longer as it approaches land, which builds its intensity.

Now, with the polar ice caps receeding, there is a lot of fresh water being released into the ocean. THis changes the saliniity - and hence the density - of the water in the ocean. This impacts the global transocean currents. Which is like someone dicking around with the thermostat in the office. Suddenly the ocean (which is a great regulator of heat) is flowing differently. Areas of the world that got warm currents are now getting cold currents. This impacts the weather on the land they are passing. Resulting in warming in some places, cooling in others - excess rainfall in some, drought in others.

People see global wamring and they thing "things getting hotter". Thats only the case at a local microclimate level. In fact it results in changed weather paterns globally - be it hot or cold. The correct term is global climate change.

Scientists are not denying that weather patterns are cyclic, and that the earth goes through cooling/heating phases. What they are saying is that like the drip in a buck vs a hose, we are accelerating the changes so that instead of them happening over an extended period of time, they are happening within a couple of generations.

Eitherway. Why does going green need to mean being a touchy feely tree hugger? It doesn't it makes economic sense to have a healthy, clean environment. If it slows our impact on the climate? Perfect - you've just had a win for the environment, and all the naysayers can point and exclaim "see, we said there was no problem".

[secret-steve-crumbles]

*blah blah blah blah*Explain Mars.

Done and done.

[tokenuser]

Explain Mars.

Done and done.Its the forth planet from the sun and we are just learning about its climate?

Explain Venus.

[secret-steve-crumbles]

Explain Venus.
Where hot chicks come from?

Also, one could make the same argument you just made about Mars for Earth. It's not like we have a long history of accurate records.

[tokenuser]

Where hot chicks come from?

Also, one could make the same argument you just made about Mars for Earth. It's not like we have a long history of accurate records.True, but unlike Mars, we have deep probe ice core samples that allow atmospheric chemical analysis. We have tree growth rings that show climactic events. We have geological formations that show flood events.

Direct temperature, moisture readings might be realtively new, but there is a lots of other information we can work with that we dont have for Mars.

Did you nkow that the the British Navy took temperature readings of the oceans during their voyages of exploration? They knew then the connection between water temperture, barometric temperature, and weather. Every seas captain was (to a varying degree) a meteorologist. The maritime archives (captains logs) are starting to be looked at for historic information going back even further. (The maritime museum in Greenwich, England is amazing).

[secret-steve-crumbles]

Did you nkow that the the British Navy took temperature readings of the oceans during their voyages of exploration? They knew then the connection between water temperture, barometric temperature, and weather. Every seas captain was (to a varying degree) a meteorologist. The maritime archives (captains logs) are starting to be looked at for historic information going back even further. (The maritime museum in Greenwich, England is amazing).No, I didn't know that, that's actually pretty interesting.

I just stumbled upon this article which I found pretty funny. It looks like we can all relax, the DNC "carbon offset" program is off to a good start. How much money was raised?

$18.34 (http://www.aspendailynews.com/section/home/129327)

[tokenuser]

I just stumbled upon this article which I found pretty funny. It looks like we can all relax, the DNC "carbon offset" program is off to a good start. How much money was raised?

$18.34 (http://www.aspendailynews.com/section/home/129327)Voluntary carbon offset is a joke. I plant trees ... they are part of my household landscaping.

[cucumberboy]

I'm not worried about global warming, and here's why:

Long before we had our vehicles and fancy houses and whatnot, there have been times where the weather was warmer for several years, and times where it was cooler. This is nothing new.

Wow, how come the scientists haven't thought of this?

[ariastar]

I have more important things to worry about than global warming. Heartless though it may sound, for once I don't care jack shit about something, and that something is global warming. My concern is my own little world rather than the world at large. I can't take care of all the matters in the world, and this is one I'm choosing to not bother with. We drive a car with low emissions, don't waste power at home or litter, and always recycle. Switching to solar power isn't feasible, we're not going to go without power, and it's not like we're about to start throwing cans in the garbage. Hell, even plastic bags from the store get reused. Plastic ziplock bags also get reused. As far as I'm concerned, we're doing our part. Beyond this, I don't care, and I'm not going to stay up at nigh worrying myself into an ulcer over it. If you want to go vegetarian so there are fewer cows needed for meat, hence fewer farts, be my guest.

For as "hot" as it is now, there will again come a time when the world is freezing cold.

[tokenuser]

Do you realise that everything you are doing is what is recommended by the tree huggers to reduce human impact ont he environment, and slow down global warming? If more people didn't care like you, it would be a better place.

What you have demonstrated is that environmental consciousness should not cost you any more.

If everyone did the same as you, there would be fewer landfills, a reduced need/reliance on oil, reduced energy consumption, etc.

Keep on not caring.

[ariastar]

Do you realise that everything you are doing is what is recommended by the tree huggers to reduce human impact ont he environment, and slow down global warming? If more people didn't care like you, it would be a better place.

What you have demonstrated is that environmental consciousness should not cost you any more.

If everyone did the same as you, there would be fewer landfills, a reduced need/reliance on oil, reduced energy consumption, etc.

Keep on not caring.

I know the theory behind global warming, saw it beginning back in the 90's when I was co-founder of an environmental organization protesting clear-cutting of trees and such (NOT easy in Oregon, where foresting is such big business). I recycle because it's wasteful to throw away aluminum and the cans and such that are thrown away often end up in streams and hurt wildlife. There's no reason to keep a ton of lights on 24/7, and at night I prefer it dim anyway. Plus it saves money. We don't do what we do because of this idea of global warming. We do what we do for other reasons, and if it happens to have a theoretical impact on global warming, so be it. But I don't do anything in particular for the sake of ZOMG global warming.

A big pet peeve of mine is people not recycling. Really, it is no inconvenience. Garbage goes in a bag anyway, so have a second. Garbage goes to the dumpster, so why not take the extra ten steps to the bin for recyclables. Some municipalities even provide to containers for residential houses to recycle.

Eventually we'll work ourselves into extinction. Evolution can't happen so well if nothing changes. The environment changes, some animals die out, new ones come along and take their place. True, humans are the ones making intentional impacts, and that bothers me to a degree that many have no care at all, but all it means is we will eventually kill off humans and something else will form. If we kill off all life other than cockroaches, well, some think cognizant life will reform from cockroaches. We weren't always here and the world was fine without us. The world was here without our cows and dogs and birds, and the world was fine. Eventually our cows and dogs and birds will be extinct like the rest of us. The methane will eventually dissipate. Things like oil left on the soil is what will take far more time and is a much greater risk, but even then, I'm sure that there will be living things that adapt, and maybe even thrive. Just because we can't see it doesn't mean it won't happen.

The world wasn't made for jellyfish, and it wasn't made for us.

Any anyone who thinks conservation and global warming concerns are genuinely for the sake of the earth is fooling himself. We are humans, selfish by nature, and our concerns lie in the earth's ability to sustain us and what we, by our current standards, think is pretty. But there's nothing so special about it that there should never be change. Just because we are here now doesn't mean that the world we love is so special that it must never ever change. Yeah, the world may one day be a waste land for a while, but the destruction will disappear as the earth repairs herself over time, and what she becomes may be something far more beautiful than any of us can fathom.

[xibalba]

So what has the earth so excited?

http://img.metro.co.uk/i/pix/2008/09/icebergREX_450x300.jpg