Cell Phones for the poor

[xibalba]

So here in TN(probably other places as well) there is a new program that the local government is giving low income people free cellphones. Over 800,000 people are eligible here. Here is the website. (https://www.safelinkwireless.com/EnrollmentPublic/Home.aspx)

Thoughts? Waste of Taxpayer Money, or Good way to give the poor a way to communicate in case of an emergency.

[mikec]

Who pays for the service? Are the phones limited in function or use?

My immediate thoughts are that the government's job is not to provide communication devices for the citizens. Why not just let the folks use the phones at the schools and police stations? Yes, I am not serious about that. This is just another liberal way to make everyone feel special. What's next, the state giving people cars or SUVs?

As for emergency communications, we lived a long time without cell phones. Yes, there usually were pay phones on corners but not every corner. Let's not forget many of those phones were removed after they were used by drug dealers or gangs, others were removed after cell phones made them financially not viable.

[esophagus]

I know that when you replace a cellphone at Telus (A major cellphone provider in Canada) they will take the old phone and give it to the local homeless. My phone got wet, so the screen stopped working, but the phone itself was still fine. They set it up so that it can still dial out to 911 and give it to the homeless. I think thats a good service.

[phatlip12]

Hmm. I'm not too sure about this. Are cell phones really a necessity? Perhaps in some rare cases but they're more then likely not.

I do support programs that allow you to donate your old phones to people of low income. Actually paying for the plan should be on them though.

EDIT

"They set it up so that it can still dial out to 911 and give it to the homeless. I think thats a good service."Ah, good point. A phone without a plan can still call 911. I can see the use there. I just don't think it should come out of the tax payers pocket. It sounds like an excellent project for a non profit though. My parents donated their old phone to a similar program before.

[xibalba]

Was looking around someone was talking about it in there blog. Said it was a national program and if everyone who was eligible got on it would cost around 3 billion a year.

[mikec]

I know that the cell phone companies do collect and give out old phones to battered spouses, not all battered people are women most are, so that they can call 911. That is a good thing, but those phones do not have any other service with them.


As for this giveaway, I'm just waiting for someone to complain that they can't get a Blackberry or an iPhone.

Yes, many of those who may get one of these will not abuse the program, however there are always one or two in every crowd who thing the world owes them something.

[phatlip12]

I know that the cell phone companies do collect and give out old phones to battered spouses, not all battered people are women most are, so that they can call 911. That is a good thing, but those phones do not have any other service with them.


Yeah! That's the on my parents donated to.


As for this giveaway, I'm just waiting for someone to complain that they can't get a Blackberry or an iPhone.

Yes, many of those who may get one of these will not abuse the program, however there are always one or two in every crowd who thing the world owes them something.

Yep, unfortunately there are always going to be people that try to take advantage of the system. Back when I still worked at the restaurant I had a lady ask how much our jumbo crabs were. If you're from Maryland (I believe you're the one that is) you know how much that costs. They were running $65 a DOZEN at the time. She then proceed to ask if she could pay with food stamps. That's ridiculous.

[tokenuser]

The qualification restrictions are pretty ridgid ... but little known fact, those are the same restrictions placed on people that qualified for a free landline phone service. So, its nothing new, its just the technology has caught up to a point where it is cheaper to give someone (and you'll notice its one per family) a cellphone than a landline.

That also means that the homeless can get a phone as well (where they charge it is a mystery). One of the hardest things about getting off the streets is being able to be contacted about available work - so I am all for this.

[phatlip12]

The qualification restrictions are pretty ridgid ... but little known fact, those are the same restrictions placed on people that qualified for a free landline phone service. So, its nothing new, its just the technology has caught up to a point where it is cheaper to give someone (and you'll notice its one per family) a cellphone than a landline.

That also means that the homeless can get a phone as well (where they charge it is a mystery). One of the hardest things about getting off the streets is being able to be contacted about available work - so I am all for this.

It depends on how ridgid it is IMO. I think it's a great idea, I just think we need to be careful how we implement it. How we go about doing it is what worries me. A cellphone isn't always a necessity. Though, as you mentioned can really come in handy for helping someone get off the streets.

[ariastar]

Absolutely not. Private citizens and companies donating old phones, and companies deciding to provide minutes for free or a lowered rate for a write-off, okay. But absolutely no to the government giving people cell phones and "free" minutes. Cell phones are luxury items, and I'm getting sick and tired of people thinking they're entitled to what "everyone else" has. What next, cars? Claiming a car is necessary to get around?

Actually, I believe there was a program out in the Merced/Winton area where the local government was doing just that, and off-the-lot vehicles to boot, until local working citizens (understandably) had a shit-fit, and there was a to-do about people selling those vehicles for drug money. If I recall correctly, the program was very, VERY quickly snuffed out. This was maybe the early 90's? I believe it was Toyota trucks. Since there are as many people, if not more, on welfare out there (able-bodies people who choose not to work) than workers, this is something that absolutely wasn't affordable. When we lived there still, my god, the amount my parents were paying in taxes...it actually went down when we moved to Modesto in 1986.

Token, out here homeless shelters are often set up to provide voice mail boxes for homeless people who are applying for jobs and need a way to get messages. If you give a homeless person a cell phone, how will it be charged? My concern is that the cell phone will be government assistance for drug-related activities. The homeless who really want to work should get in contact with a local shelter that may also have resources to get them a decent set of clothes and facilities to shower for interviews. Just giving a person on the street a cell phone isn't going to make it any easier to get a job.

[phatlip12]

Absolutely not. Private citizens and companies donating old phones, and companies deciding to provide minutes for free or a lowered rate for a write-off, okay. But absolutely no to the government giving people cell phones and "free" minutes. Cell phones are luxury items, and I'm getting sick and tired of people thinking they're entitled to what "everyone else" has. What next, cars? Claiming a car is necessary to get around?


Aria, you also bring up an excellent point. Public transportation isn't always an option. It's non existent in my area to be exact. One could make the claim that a car is a necessity too.

[esophagus]

I'm more than okay with it, so long as they don't have a land line accessible already.

[bigshotprof]

In the big picture, I don't see the down. The cost has to be minimal. It gives people one more way to stay connected--find work, check on kids. Being stuck in poverty is a gruesome reality. I don't see why people are so hard on people who just want a little daylight.

I do think the "Buddy Can You Spare a Dime" ringtone was excessive.

[skyz]

That also means that the homeless can get a phone as well (where they charge it is a mystery). One of the hardest things about getting off the streets is being able to be contacted about available work - so I am all for this.

exactly

not everyone on the streets is a low life drug addict alcoholic pimp whore

you would be surprised how many college graduates are homeless

many many people are two paychecks from the street

and with the economy as it is that many many will grow exponentially

[skyz]

In the big picture, I don't see the down. The cost has to be minimal. It gives people one more way to stay connected--find work, check on kids. Being stuck in poverty is a gruesome reality. I don't see why people are so hard on people who just want a little daylight.



umm yes

where is the christianity in action ?

[skyz]

Absolutely not. Cell phones are luxury items, and I'm getting sick and tired of people thinking they're entitled to what "everyone else" has. What next, cars? Claiming a car is necessary to get around?

actually 82-83% of the american population have a cell phone a good % of them have only a cell phone

in order to have a land line you have to have a home

a bus pass would be ok imho

i know aria how dare these folks want a home food and the means to care for their children

you who are so 'family' desiring do not seem to 'get' that these losers / homeless people are often parents and their lack of well being means their children even their babies suffer as well

have a <3 aria

feel the pain of others as you do your own

[comhcinc]

So did anyone read the rules on this thing? they are very rigid. i went through a little of the process and it really doesn't give you much.

if you qualify you get a tracfone (a new one which they sell for like 20 bucks) and you get 68 minutes a month for one year before having to reapply. you can buy more minutes for you tracfone if you want.

this seems like a pretty good deal. it enables people to stay in contact (think of gas prices) be able to contact 911 and make maybe look for a job ( when i was 17 my family was hit very hard and we were very poor. i couldn't find work for every cause i didn't have a phone number) remember it isn't just the homeless looking for work and not everyone can afford phone sevice.

as for the whole drug deal thing. what self respecting drug dealer is going to be seen using a tracfone? really who?

[ariastar]

In the big picture, I don't see the down. The cost has to be minimal. It gives people one more way to stay connected--find work, check on kids. Being stuck in poverty is a gruesome reality. I don't see why people are so hard on people who just want a little daylight.

I do think the "Buddy Can You Spare a Dime" ringtone was excessive.

The big picture is the ones most likely to fund this are the middle class who are already the ones being taxed out the ass for everything else. While many middle class people struggle like hell as it is and are balancing which bill to pay this month and which to push off another month, you're talking about adding something else for the middle class to pay for.

[esophagus]

You do realize this is already in effect? Theres no tax they're going to add. If you're paying for the program, you already are.

[ariastar]

actually 82-83% of the american population have a cell phone a good % of them have only a cell phone

in order to have a land line you have to have a home

a bus pass would be ok imho

i know aria how dare these folks want a home food and the means to care for their children

you who are so 'family' desiring do not seem to 'get' that these losers / homeless people are often parents and their lack of well being means their children even their babies suffer as well

have a <3 aria

feel the pain of others as you do your own

I am EXTREMELY concerned with how children are being used as an excuse for hand-outs. There is such thing as those needing help temporarily, and there is such thing as those who take advantage of the system, and the latter outnumbers the former. I'm sick of people using their kids as an excuse. My problem isn't with those who need, and accept, help that is only temporary. But that's not the reality for the majority. It's taking help and living on it as long as possible. There are fewer and fewer reasons to get back on one's feet when everything, including cell phones, are seen as rights that the middle class has to pay for. The majority of those without health care, for instance, as the middle class, those paying so those who CHOOSE not to work can have coverage. It's becoming more and more attractive to not work at all and just go apply for welfare (of course one needs a kid already to do this).

I've personally witnesses such gross abuses of the system, and it's the reason I've cut out so damned much of my own family. One of my own aunts once said why get a job and work if she can get section 8 and food stamps for free and end up with more than she would by working. There are few incentives for able-bodies welfare recipients to get jobs, and those few are going down in number.

A lot of homeless shelters set up voice mail boxes for homeless to receive messages from prospective employers. Better yet, a lot of shelters provide shower facilities and a decent set of clothing to wear to an interview. Throwing a phone at people does nothing when they're still dirty and don't have something suitable to wear and a place to charge the phone. It would be more beneficial to hock the phone for $10 and go buy a few food items at a fast food place. Once the charge on the phone is gone, the phone is pointless. It's a band-aid solution, and one that will last until the battery dies. A reliable way to check voice mail and to shower and wear a decent set of clothes, not to mention an address to use for applications, is a far, FAR better option.

[tokenuser]

The big picture is the ones most likely to fund this are the middle class who are already the ones being taxed out the ass for everything else. While many middle class people struggle like hell as it is and are balancing which bill to pay this month and which to push off another month, you're talking about adding something else for the middle class to pay for.Nobody is talking about adding anything. THESE PEOPLE ALREADY HAVE SUBSIDISED LANDLINES.

Should I say that again so that it is clear? If you fall into a very narrow and very specific demographic, you already qualify for a free or heavily subsidised landline. The same qualification criteria are being applied to these phones.

You dont want to pay for someone to have a line of communication? Great, thats your perogative - but the choice of how money is spent on social programs is not yours or Crumbles.

[masherscf]

Great, more cellphones.

I have to think that handing out crippled 911-only cellphones is a colossal waste of money. Would you carry such a thing?

[comhcinc]

I've personally witnesses such gross abuses of the system, and it's the reason I've cut out so damned much of my own family. One of my own aunts once said why get a job and work if she can get section 8 and food stamps for free and end up with more than she would by working. There are few incentives for able-bodies welfare recipients to get jobs, and those few are going down in number.


you're right. why work and make money so i can live in a decent house ( compare to the crappy apartments section 8 gets you most of the time) have money to go to red lobster and buy one of those neato iphone 3Gs when i can live off welfare, use food stamps and have a tracfone with 68 minutes a month on it! :rolleyes:

http://www.movildelujo.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/tracfone-1.jpg

does not equal

http://images.google.com/url?q=http://techdigest.tv/apple-iphone-in-hand-thumb.jpg&usg=AFQjCNF4tt9NKTYQ4x837cJT00S7OGaYlg

[tokenuser]

Great, more cellphones.

I have to think that handing out crippled 911-only cellphones is a colossal waste of money. Would you carry such a thing?This is not te same as the "battered wives" cellphone donation program. These are cheap, almost disposable, GSM phones with a little over an hour of allocated minutes each month, with the ability to top up via tracFone cards.

To qualify (as an individual) you need to be earning less than about $14K year, and be on welfare assistance.

Supplying and using one of these would be less than what AT&T charge as a monthly landline leasing charge - which once again is subsidised if you qualify.

911 only makes no sense, but you are not going to be running a meth empire on one of these either.

[masherscf]

911 only makes no sense, but you are not going to be running a meth empire on one of these either.

I have to think that anyone dealing drugs will have enough cash for a throw-away phone. Than again, the wireless providers have the resources to provide affordable pay-as-you-go phones with almost no ala-carte features already without any subsidization. The trouble? There's no margin in it. They want the up-sell. So, they seed these preposterous stories about liberals wanting to buy free cellphones for drug-dealers with tax-payer money.

[rabidbadger]

Why do I have a tracphone instead of an iPhone? Um.Cause I can make/recieve phone calls on it. I can pay as much or as little (or nothing) as I want.

And I make less than 14k a year, (plus some occasional freelance that no one needs to know about) yet still own a cute little house, a stable car, and can pay for my vices. How?

I work my ass off, don't buy luxury items, and shop for necessities intelligently. The working poor like me, pay almost as much taxes for these needless programs as the middle class do.

But I will say this, I'm 2 paychecks away from being one of those folks who would, if I lost my job, Kill for a phone, any phone, to get me back on my feet.

[rabidbadger]

but you are not going to be running a meth empire on one of these either.

Umm. Yes you are. Disposable Phones are the ONLY way dealers deal. No trace to a permanant, high fallutin phone if it's in a dumpster. Same reason dealers used to use phone booths.

Also, the BIGGEST contraband issue in prisons these days is disposable phones, just so they CAN still run their drug empire from their cells. It's a cells for cells issue, I guess. :p

But I know this is true from first hand knowledge, and from an NPR story a few weeks ago.

[ariastar]

you're right. why work and make money so i can live in a decent house ( compare to the crappy apartments section 8 gets you most of the time) have money to go to red lobster and buy one of those neato iphone 3Gs when i can live off welfare, use food stamps and have a tracfone with 68 minutes a month on it! :rolleyes:

It's an attractive option to many people to do without Red Lobster to not have to work. And, depending on what area in the country you are, a certain percentage of housing, whether houses to buy or rental apartments, must be set aside for low-income people and section 8, and the units can NOT be noticeably different as to avoid any sort of stigma because that might make the person feel bad or inferior. Sorry, but if someone makes the choice to not work and live in a section 8 unit, that person is not entitled to the same quality unit as a working family busting its ass.

Once upon a time, the incentive to get back into the work force was not having to live in crappier housing and to be seen using food stamps and vouchers. You had to work to obtain those nicer things. But now the stigma is being removed as debit card-type cards are in use and section 8 housing is the same as all the rest in some areas. Why the hell would someone on welfare, say, here, ever want to get back into the work force? Just to go to Red Lobster? I believe 10% of the apartments and townhouses in this complex (http://www.archstoneapartments.com/Apartments/California/Northern_California/Archstone_Cupertino/) are set aside for section 8 and low income.

If you choose not to work, you aren't entitled to shit, kids or no kids. If you're accepting help temporarily or are disabled, fine. But that still doesn't mean the same, or nearly the same, or sometimes even better, standard of living as people who bust their ass to make ends meet. There is no reason to give people cell phones over land lines. That's a luxury they can do without. Land lines suffice. If they don't like it, get jobs.

(btw, to get that "free" cell phone you have to have a residential address, not a PO box, so homeless people don't qualify unless they can get a residential address. Those who qualify can do with a land line.)

[ariastar]

I have to think that anyone dealing drugs will have enough cash for a throw-away phone.

I don't think drug dealers are of such moral character as to think it wrong to take what they can get at someone else's expense.

[ariastar]

Not to mention there is no limit to the number of minutes that a land line can be used for incoming calls. So a low-income person benefits MORE from a land line and isn't limited to so many minutes per month for potential employers to call. Of course carrying a cell phone just looks cooler.

Those who can't have a private land line due to no permanent residence, the homeless, are the ones who would theoretically benefit most (where to charge it?), but they don't qualify on the basis of having no residence, unless they can find someone with a residential address to accept mail. No post office boxes allowed.

[comhcinc]

Why the hell would someone on welfare, say, here, ever want to get back into the work force?

iphones, 70 inch lcds, sense of pride, good beer, that trip to disney land with the kids. strippers, college for the kids, that pet monkey you always wanted......i can think of a lot of reasons.

[skyz]

iphones, 70 inch lcds, sense of pride, good beer, that trip to disney land with the kids. strippers, college for the kids, that pet monkey you always wanted......i can think of a lot of reasons.

chanel sunglasses

moet chandon

massages manicures pedicures

pilates class

organic vegetables / fruits

first class everything

la perla

pratesi

did i mention chanel

[tokenuser]

Umm. Yes you are. Disposable Phones are the ONLY way dealers deal. No trace to a permanant, high fallutin phone if it's in a dumpster. Same reason dealers used to use phone booths.

Also, the BIGGEST contraband issue in prisons these days is disposable phones, just so they CAN still run their drug empire from their cells. It's a cells for cells issue, I guess. :p

But I know this is true from first hand knowledge, and from an NPR story a few weeks ago.These phones wont be used for crack dealers. They are too controlled, with too few minutes to be of use to anyone outside the program.

[ariastar]

iphones, 70 inch lcds, sense of pride, good beer, that trip to disney land with the kids. strippers, college for the kids, that pet monkey you always wanted......i can think of a lot of reasons.

These are things a lot of people don't care about. And if you're on welfare, the amount of financial aide your kids get is a LOT as the need is seen as being greater. Not everyone cares about pride as long as hey have a roof and food, and plenty of people on welfare have plenty of booze, often without caring what, as long as it does the job. If the able-bodied people on welfare wanted these things, they can get jobs, but the able-bodied people living on welfare with no plan to change that just don't care about Disneyland and LCDs. These are things WE care about. If they did, they could try to get work.

(btw, I am NOT talking bad about those temporarily needing help or who are genuinely disabled - that's what the system is supposed to be for. I just hate those who are able-bodied and decide to live on welfare as long as they can get away with.)

[comhcinc]

These are things WE care about. yeah lady don't include me with you.
If they did, they could try to get work.
i have heard that in certain places on the west coast it is nearly impossible to get a job :rolleyes: funny how things apply to different people.

[tokenuser]

(btw, I am NOT talking bad about those temporarily needing help or who are genuinely disabled - that's what the system is supposed to be for. I just hate those who are able-bodied and decide to live on welfare as long as they can get away with.)Have you qualified for welfare yet? Just curious ...

[skyz]

yeah lady don't include me with you.

i have heard that in certain places on the west coast it is nearly impossible to get a job :rolleyes: funny how things apply to different people.

heh

.......

[ariastar]

i have heard that in certain places on the west coast it is nearly impossible to get a job :rolleyes: funny how things apply to different people.

In which case assistance would be temporary (and you don't see me applying for section 8, food stamps, and welfare, not that I could anyway without having a kid), until work can be found, not at all the same as those CHOOSING not to work. I know of a town where most of the stores closed down because there weren't enough people willing to work. Not a shortage of able-bodied people, just a shortage of able-bodied people willing to work.

[comhcinc]

I know of a town where most of the stores closed down because there weren't enough people willing to work. Not a shortage of able-bodied people, just a shortage of able-bodied people willing to work.

i'd like to see some proof about that.

[skyz]

you don't see me applying for section 8, food stamps, and welfare

of couse not aria

what a thought

cody would never let that happen

[ariastar]

Have you qualified for welfare yet? Just curious ...

No, nor have I applied for section 8 or food stamps, nor would I, even if we had a kid already, which is a requirement for these things. Cody's busting his ass off at Apple, and I'm busting my ass off trying to get my business going again (while also still spending time each day looking for a job, and I'm still applying), rather than sitting here talking about what I think I should be entitled to. We don't have a lavish existence, and do without going to movies and buying stuff. We don't even go to San Francisco, just an hour away, to take a break, because the money for gas is money we can save. We literally go no where. We have cable internet, and don't have cable TV. We don't even rent movies - that's $4 that's better saved. We also don't sit here thinking we're entitled to tax payers paying for us to have it easier. We would LOVE a break, love for someone to give us some cash and tell us we HAD to go to the city or something for a break, but that won't happen, it's up to US to make the money for what we want and what we have, even when that means selling possessions.

[ariastar]

i'd like to see some proof about that.

Look up Winton, California.

[ariastar]

of couse not aria

what a thought

cody would never let that happen

Nice editing job. Left of the "nor would I" part. Even when I was literally homeless I didn't apply for help. Yeah, I've literally, LITERALLY, been homeless. Sleeping in parks. I'VE FUCKING BEEN THERE!! I KNOW it's not easy. But I still didn't go around trying to get help for free, despite having landed in the ER TWICE for abdominal abscessing and not having the money for the medical supplies or antibiotics to take care of it. I did what I could to get a job, and washed up in the bathrooms of gas stations. I hated it, it was hard, but I clawed my way up and out of that life - while dealing with two abscesses.

[rabidbadger]

of couse not aria

what a thought

cody would never let that happen

you have never mentioned having a job. Where do you get the money for all that Channel and Pravda stuff. I'm guessing trust fund kid.

[rabidbadger]

Nice editing job. Left of the "nor would I" part. Even when I was literally homeless I didn't apply for help. Yeah, I've literally, LITERALLY, been homeless. Sleeping in parks. I'VE FUCKING BEEN THERE!! I KNOW it's not easy. But I still didn't go around trying to get help for free, despite having landed in the ER TWICE for abdominal abscessing and not having the money for the medical supplies or antibiotics to take care of it. I did what I could to get a job, and washed up in the bathrooms of gas stations. I hated it, it was hard, but I clawed my way up and out of that life - while dealing with two abscesses.

Babe got spunk!!! ;)

[esophagus]

In which case assistance would be temporary (and you don't see me applying for section 8, food stamps, and welfare, not that I could anyway without having a kid), until work can be found, not at all the same as those CHOOSING not to work. I know of a town where most of the stores closed down because there weren't enough people willing to work. Not a shortage of able-bodied people, just a shortage of able-bodied people willing to work.
I really really disagree that a majority of the homeless or poor choose to be that way. Its a tough boat to get out of. I'd love to here more about this town full of unemployed people, and how anything managed to get down.

[skyz]

you have never mentioned having a job. Where do you get the money for all that Channel and Pravda stuff. I'm guessing trust fund kid.

it is prada not pravda

you also have never heard me mention my medical history or truama dramas with bfs nor am i'm soliciting funds for anything

i've had rough times too

but i would be way too proud to whine about it

[ariastar]

I really really disagree that a majority of the homeless or poor choose to be that way. Its a tough boat to get out of. I'd love to here more about this town full of unemployed people, and how anything managed to get down.

Yes, being homeless is a tough boat to get out of. I know from experience. I had to humble myself to ask a former employer for a job while also being truthful that I was homeless and so had a hard time staying clean enough. She helped me get back on my feet, but by no means gave me hand outs.

Like I told you, Winton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winton,_CA). Last I know of (since I stopped talking to them) most of my relatives are getting about $1,400 per month for welfare, for between two and six kids, plus section 8 and food stamps. One of my uncles, using his welfare as income, bought a BMW about six years old. Sure, not off-the-lot new, but he mentioned it being about $12,000 still. (My last car, by comparison, is a 1997 Sebring I bought last year and paid $2,700 for that we're selling because we need the money.) That's where I'm from, and my parents moved us from where when I was very young. But I still spent a lot of time in that town. For several years I saw nothing wrong with taking welfare if it was going to be given - because that's what I saw there. I'm glad my parents got the right idea into my head by my teen years.

Fuck, that town had a pregnancy center for a year or so, then had to shut down because they couldn't find people to work there. btw, giving birth at home and not registering births is common. Several of my own cousins don't have birth certificates, and their moms' social workers don't bother asking for social security numbers for an increase in welfare because it's accepted that not registering births is just a way of life out there. Just bring in the kid for visual proof of existence. We think my cousin Hannah's birthday is December 21st or 22nd, but hell, we don't know for sure. Her mom can't remember. No birth certificate.

You are welcome to go out there if you want. Just don't go to the park at night unless you really want to die. This town is known for its extremely high crime rate. The police packed up and moved out years ago after giving up. If 911 is called, the nearest police station is Atwater, and Atwater police don't bother unless someone's dead. Which happens every week or two.

About five years ago I offered to take in my cousin Rachel and her son, and my cousin Alicia (pronounces Alisha) and her two daughters, to get them out of that town, because the boy was showing bad habits already and the girls were definitely at high risk of being teen parents, but on the condition they look for, and get, jobs. I didn't ask for contributions to the household either. Just that they get jobs. They turned me down because it was easier to take welfare and section 8, and Alicia told me if the girls can have babies when she did (14, and her own mom had her at 14 as well), then they're set when it comes to money. Alicia's mom's social worker did line up a job for her, that she turned around an intentionally screwed up to get fired from very quickly so she could stay on welfare. Melanie's got amazing baking and cake-decorating skills, freakish skills, especially never having taken classes, but she refused to keep that job in the bakery and so fucked up on purpose.

[phatlip12]

No, nor have I applied for section 8 or food stamps, nor would I, even if we had a kid already, which is a requirement for these things. Cody's busting his ass off at Apple, and I'm busting my ass off trying to get my business going again (while also still spending time each day looking for a job, and I'm still applying), rather than sitting here talking about what I think I should be entitled to. We don't have a lavish existence, and do without going to movies and buying stuff. We don't even go to San Francisco, just an hour away, to take a break, because the money for gas is money we can save. We literally go no where. We have cable internet, and don't have cable TV. We don't even rent movies - that's $4 that's better saved. We also don't sit here thinking we're entitled to tax payers paying for us to have it easier. We would LOVE a break, love for someone to give us some cash and tell us we HAD to go to the city or something for a break, but that won't happen, it's up to US to make the money for what we want and what we have, even when that means selling possessions.

Hey Aria, have you ever thought about working at Apple too? As you already know through Cody they offer great benefits. Not sure how you would feel about working with Cody though. Just a thought.

[ariastar]

Hey Aria, have you ever thought about working at Apple too? As you already know through Cody they offer great benefits. Not sure how you would feel about working with Cody though. Just a thought.

I've applied. In this area, Apple is harder to get into than Stanford. Even though they're desperately short-staffed. Since Jobs and Johnson are around and it's on the managers what employees do, it's like they'd rather hold extremely high expectations for who to hire in the first place that to take a shot. I've applied four times. Also they don't let couples work together, so it'd have to be a different store. Still, no luck. The time spent on applying places is down to about two hours per day. I was at the point of taking ephedra to stay awake for a few days to apply non-stop. Cody's dad's gf has a bunch of contacts in the area, and even she came up dry for leads. AT that point, they encouraged me to spend more time on my business - it's not like I'm doing nothing at all. And I do have assisting in costuming a production under my belt now. These things will help when we get down south since I do have a lead for costuming for when we get down there.

[phatlip12]

I've applied. In this area, Apple is harder to get into than Stanford. Even though they're desperately short-staffed. Since Jobs and Johnson are around and it's on the managers what employees do, it's like they'd rather hold extremely high expectations for who to hire in the first place that to take a shot. I've applied four times. Also they don't let couples work together, so it'd have to be a different store. Still, no luck. The time spent on applying places is down to about two hours per day. I was at the point of taking ephedra to stay awake for a few days to apply non-stop. Cody's dad's gf has a bunch of contacts in the area, and even she came up dry for leads. AT that point, they encouraged me to spend more time on my business - it's not like I'm doing nothing at all. And I do have assisting in costuming a production under my belt now. These things will help when we get down south since I do have a lead for costuming for when we get down there.

Actually, I heard the Standford thing is true at all Apple stores.

Though, the store I work at has one or two couples off the top of my head that work together (management is aware of this). I guess it varies from store to store.

[ariastar]

Actually, I heard the Standford thing is true at all Apple stores.

Though, the store I work at has one or two couples off the top of my head that work together (management is aware of this). I guess it varies from store to store.

Around here those couples would NOT be working together. They're too strict at the stores out here. I do know that the stores in this area are held to the policies tighter than any other stores, especially the Palo Alto once since that's supposed to be the store that sets the example for the rest, not like people from stores in other states ever see it. No slack.

Just getting an interview out here is like winning the lottery. Same for most places. Oh well. Right now I've got up about eight windows with other jobs I'm looking in to. Come 7 and I'm quitting for the night.

[secret-steve-crumbles]

So here in TN(probably other places as well) there is a new program that the local government is giving low income people free cellphones. Over 800,000 people are eligible here. Here is the website. (https://www.safelinkwireless.com/EnrollmentPublic/Home.aspx)

Thoughts? Waste of Taxpayer Money, or Good way to give the poor a way to communicate in case of an emergency.I think they should collect cell phones from the people standing in the welfare lines.

You can afford your cell phone bill, but you need my help for food.

Get your priorities straight before asking the government for help.

[ariastar]

I think they should collect cell phones from the people standing in the welfare lines.

You can afford your cell phone bill, but you need my help for food.

Get your priorities straight before asking the government for help.

I...uh...did Hell freeze over? Because I agree with you. Especially considering, if you get welfare, you already qualify for a lower-priced, or even free, land line.

[rabidbadger]

I KNOW. I agree with crumbles, too. For the second time this month. I Need a beer! And smelling salts. :)

[phatlip12]

I have no clue what you three are talking about. They're not paying a phone bill, the government is. This has nothing to do with their priorities if they're not paying for it. It's not like they're paying a sprint bill and then bitching that they gave no money to get food with.

[rabidbadger]

it is prada not pravda

you also have never heard me mention my medical history or truama dramas with bfs nor am i'm soliciting funds for anything

i've had rough times too

but i would be way too proud to whine about it

and you can afford Prada and Channell, etc cause you do what for a living? Just curious.

[ariastar]

I have no clue what you three are talking about. They're not paying a phone bill, the government is. This has nothing to do with their priorities if they're not paying for it. It's not like they're paying a sprint bill and then bitching that they gave no money to get food with.

He's not talking about the people getting these "free" phones, but the ones talking away to whomever. And the "government" paying is the tax-payers.

The ones who have their own phones already have screwed-up priorities.

[ariastar]

and you can afford Prada and Channell, etc cause you do what for a living? Just curious.

Because it'll be pointed out, um, it's "Chanel." :D

[phatlip12]

He's not talking about the people getting these "free" phones, but the ones talking away to whomever.

Talking away to whomever on 60 minutes a month? That's pretty unlikely.


And the "government" paying is the tax-payers.


Okay, and statements such as this makes room for a debate. A made up scenario where the people on wel-fare are paying the bill on this program while asking for assistance for food isn't. Thats not what's going on and is a fabricated event. People involved in this program don't pay the bill. I don't understand how Crumbles scenario is relevant. What he described isn't what we're discussing.

The ones who have their own phones already have screwed-up priorities.

Okay but we're not discussing people that go out and buy an iPhone while also collecting welfare. Yes, thats an example of a person with screwed-up priorities but nobody is arguing that.

What we're arguing is the system in which the GOVERNMENT hands out cell phones to people and pays for the plan. Not one in which a person already has a phone/plan and takes advantage of the system.

[tokenuser]

and you can afford Prada and Channell, etc cause you do what for a living? Just curious.I have a couple of pair of Channel Pliers in my tool box in the garage ...

WRT to the other Chanel ... we went to the Chanel store in Paris. I walked in with wife, and left within 5 minutes. the perfume in there was good, but the women who were in their buying it (well the smallest sample size they had) were over powering the store with the knockoff Chanel they were wearing (Channel 11?).

[comhcinc]

Look up Winton, California.

I did look it up. i did a much deeper search than wikipeda. I could find nothing on it at all. so i am calling Bullshit.

you just seem to hate poor people.

[ariastar]

Talking away to whomever on 60 minutes a month? That's pretty unlikely.

The ones who "pay" for their own cell phones, not the ones getting the "free" cell phones.


What we're arguing is the system in which the GOVERNMENT hands out cell phones to people and pays for the plan. Not one in which a person already has a phone/plan and takes advantage of the system.

63 minute or whatever isn't enough to do more than waste money. Let them use their land lines, subsidized as it is, by tax payers. Unlimited incoming minutes. One employer call can eat up most of those 63 minutes, or even all, at times. Once those minutes are gone, they have a cell phone number that is worthless, even for voice mail. With pre-paid plans, when your minutes are up, your voice mail box is closed until it's recharged.

[ryudo]

That also means that the homeless can get a phone as well

So now not only telemarketers call me at dinner time asking for money but now the damn homeless call me asking for a dime to fund their drug habbit?

WOW! Living in the future is AWESOME!:p

[bigshotprof]

The big picture is the ones most likely to fund this are the middle class who are already the ones being taxed out the ass for everything else. While many middle class people struggle like hell as it is and are balancing which bill to pay this month and which to push off another month, you're talking about adding something else for the middle class to pay for.

First. I am not sure that's true. I haven't seen how this is funded. Second, as stated earlier, any help these things can give to get people connected and get them jobs will reduce their dependency on public assistance. Third, for cryin' out loud, poverty is NOT something people volunteer for so that they won't have to work. It is an insidious, generational blight. In fact, most adults below the poverty line have some kind of work, and 3/5 of the people in poverty are kids under 16. It's a trac phone for goodness' sake. The poor are not the enemy. No society, especially one this complex can thrive without compassion.

I'm just sayin'.

[ariastar]

First. I am not sure that's true. I haven't seen how this is funded. Second, as stated earlier, any help these things can give to get people connected and get them jobs will reduce their dependency on public assistance. Third, for cryin' out loud, poverty is NOT something people volunteer for so that they won't have to work. It is an insidious, generational blight. In fact, most adults below the poverty line have some kind of work, and 3/5 of the people in poverty are kids under 16. It's a trac phone for goodness' sake. The poor are not the enemy. No society, especially one this complex can thrive without compassion.

I'm just sayin'.

First, who pays for things the "government" funds? Taxpayers. Our government officials aren't paying for them themselves out of the goodness of their hearts.

Second, 63 minutes isn't enough time per month to be of value. A discounted land line has unlimited incoming and would better connect people with "jobs" than an hour on a cell phone. The homeless, who could theoretically benefit from this, don't have a place to charge and don't have a residence (hence being homeless) to ship it to. Residential address required, post office box not accepted. So the homeless don't get it. And people with residences? Give them the god damned land lines, not the status of having cell phones.

Third, yes, people DO volunteer for "poverty." Sure, not all do, but just because you haven't personally known someone who decided to live on welfare over working doesn't mean those people don't exist. I come from an entire fucking family of them. Why do you think I don't talk to any of the relations on my mom's side? Because I'm fucking ashamed to be connected, in any way, with people who brag about what they get for free. I offered two of my cousins the change to live with me in a 4,000sq.ft. house near the beach with the condition they had to try to get jobs, and they decided that not working and staying on welfare and living where they were was better. There ARE people who prefer to live on welfare and have all their time be free over living nicer and having to give up 40 hours per week. And if you could see what they were buying last time I saw them, you'd ask if it's really always poverty, hence the quotes. $12,000 on a car doesn't sound like poverty to me. The other uncle with a house and horses, that doesn't sound like poverty to me either.

The "poor" who choose this are indeed an enemy and they are thieves. Those needing temporary help or who are disabled are not. However, I have no sympathy for the self-imposed plight of those who don't work, despite being able to, and who don't even try.

[skyz]

you just seem to hate......

those who have a lot of hate usually hate some aspect(s) of themselves

aversion is just as much an attachment as desire

both are guaranteed to cause suffering

[masherscf]

Second, 63 minutes isn't enough time per month to be of value. A discounted land line has unlimited incoming and would better connect people with "jobs" than an hour on a cell phone.

What if, the person doesn't have a permanent address or doesn't have a living arrangement that admits the installation of a land-line? What these people really need is secure voice mail. Most cell-phones don't count checking your voice mail against the monthly minutes.

[skyz]

Second, as stated earlier, any help these things can give to get people connected and get them jobs will reduce their dependency on public assistance. Third, for cryin' out loud, poverty is NOT something people volunteer for so that they won't have to work. It is an insidious, generational blight. In fact, most adults below the poverty line have some kind of work, and 3/5 of the people in poverty are kids under 16. It's a trac phone for goodness' sake. The poor are not the enemy. No society, especially one this complex can thrive without compassion.

I'm just sayin'.

the best way to break the cycle is to get an education

if people want the good stuff and a home and family

sit through 4 years or more of college

on compassion: to feel everything painful that happens to you as magnified and everything painful that happens to others as insignificant is not spiritual

if you have no spiritual life no compassion you are the ones that are truly to be pitied because whatever you have or don't have you will be unhappy

it is axiomatic

*spiritual is not = religious*

[bigshotprof]

I come from an entire fucking family of them.

That sounds pretty awful, and I certainly don't intend to undermine your experience. My only experience is having lived in NYC and knowing people of all ages who respond heroically every day to the conditions in which they live only to be considered the enemy by about everyone who identifies them as poor. Please understand that I am in NO WAY doubting the conditions under which you have lived nor the sincerity of your feelings. But also please understand that it is arguing from the exception. Like the person who is thrown to safety in a head on collision because he wasn't wearing a seat belt and thinks seat belts kill, I am afraid that you are opposing an entire sector of the population on the basis of your own experience.

My comment about the funding is based on the possibility that the phones might be donated or their price subsidized by manufacturers. Like I said, I don't know. I do know that even in Manhattan. let alone the areas of queens, brooklyn and the Bronx where poor people live, it is almost impossible to still find a working pay phone.

[phatlip12]

the best way to break the cycle is to get an education

if people want the good stuff and a home and family

sit through 4 years or more of college


How can a poor person do that?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[skyz]

How can a poor person do that?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

many people have managed

some people have flipped burgers cleaned toilets gotten grants gotten scholarships and managed to get through

you can get an education if you really want to and you have the intelligence

some people posting long argumentative posts right here could be enrolled in a course and get credit for the same amount of effort even the same argument

because even if you have to suffer to get it once you have that degree you are eligible for the better paying jobs

google wants a university degree no ifs ands or buts


oh yes btw if you can get into standford and your family income is below 100K a year your tuition is FREE and if your family income is below 60K room and board are also FREE

and if your family income is below 40K and you can get into harvard your tuition is also FREE

in both cases you can still get your pell grant which goes to you for other expenses

of course that would mean actually applying

but for those of a verbose nature and verbally passionate here is the clincher: a killer essay can get you in

it isn't only those in poverty who are not willing to make any effort or any adjustments to their daily life to rise above their circumstances

[skyz]

and you can afford Prada and Channel, etc cause you do what for a living? Just curious.

is it really any of your biz ?

[bmwt]

well put.


on compassion: to feel everything painful that happens to you as magnified and everything painful that happens to others as insignificant is not spiritual

if you have no spiritual life no compassion you are the ones that are truly to be pitied because whatever you have or don't have you will be unhappy

[ariastar]

I did look it up. i did a much deeper search than wikipeda. I could find nothing on it at all. so i am calling Bullshit.

you just seem to hate poor people.

Go visit. And please walk through the park at night while you're at it. I'm the one from that nasty little town. If you can find nothing to the contrary, then you can shut up about how it's probably actually some wonderful little town instead of a disgusting dirt pit.

The poor people I dislike are the ones who won't do a god-damned thing to help themselves and then claim to need more more MORE.

[ariastar]

What if, the person doesn't have a permanent address or doesn't have a living arrangement that admits the installation of a land-line? What these people really need is secure voice mail. Most cell-phones don't count checking your voice mail against the monthly minutes.

Read the terms. You have to have a residential address for shipping. So homeless people who can't get a land line can't get one of these phones either.

[ariastar]

How can a poor person do that?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

The poorer you are or claim to be (lying on financial aid apps is easy), the more you get, and the more likely it is to be grants. You're a dependent on your parents still for aid, so their income counts against you.

Out in the Merced/Winton area, they're opening some colleges, including a new UC, to try to encourage the people in that area to go to school since it will be FREE to them. Not surprisingly, the people who are attending are not the poor people, like they'd hoped. I swear, throw those people a bone and they throw it back if work may be involved. I had hoped that free local colleges and a university would have inspired them to work, and that hasn't been the case. If those people would go to school and get jobs, great. But they are shunning it because it means eventually working.

Eventually working 40 hours per week and making $10, even $12, an hour just isn't an attractive option next to section 8, health coverage, and welfare. At $12 an hour, that's about $2k per month before taxes, less than the financial value of a "free" apartment, health coverage, and welfare. What incentive is there to go to work? Work 40 hours per week and end up with less, or have all your time free to yourself and have more for nothing. Which is more attractive to you? If you were given the choice, no questions asked, would you take the option to work and have less, or to get more for free? Unfortunately many take the something-for-nothing option.

See why I've got such contempt for many people on welfare?

[ariastar]

That sounds pretty awful, and I certainly don't intend to undermine your experience. My only experience is having lived in NYC and knowing people of all ages who respond heroically every day to the conditions in which they live only to be considered the enemy by about everyone who identifies them as poor. Please understand that I am in NO WAY doubting the conditions under which you have lived nor the sincerity of your feelings. But also please understand that it is arguing from the exception. Like the person who is thrown to safety in a head on collision because he wasn't wearing a seat belt and thinks seat belts kill, I am afraid that you are opposing an entire sector of the population on the basis of your own experience.

My comment about the funding is based on the possibility that the phones might be donated or their price subsidized by manufacturers. Like I said, I don't know. I do know that even in Manhattan. let alone the areas of queens, brooklyn and the Bronx where poor people live, it is almost impossible to still find a working pay phone.

You have to have a residential address to get that free cell phone though. The terms state that. So the people who would have to reply on a pay phone because they are homeless don't qualify, and those who have homes can get discounted land lines and have unlimited incoming. Unlimited incoming would allow a person who's bothered applying for jobs to not have to cut one employer call short for fear of running out of minutes. An hour of minutes isn't much when job-searching.

Why does no one seem to see how the bigger benefit to someone wanting work is a land line with unlimited minutes for use? The only people who'd benefit even slightly from a cell phone are the homeless, those without homes to get land line service in, but even then, how the hell is the phone going to be charged?

The sector of the population I oppose are those who are able-bodied and don't even try to do anything for themselves. West Coast, East Coast, Massachusetts to Oregon, I've known more people content to live on welfare as long as it means not having to get a job. They'll give up the nicer things as long as they can sit there watching judge shows on TV.

From my understanding, New Yorkers are more on an exception in that there's more pride in working hard among most people there, despite the way movies portray them to be nothing by selfish, ignoring thugs. Hell, you're more likely to be ignored in San Francisco than movies show. In NorCal, juvie is so rarely used it's more of a myth, and in SoCal it's used often. Mexicans are painted in movies and on TV as coming to America to sit on welfare, but in reality, they're some of the hardest-working people I've ever met. I don't base my perception of people on what is shown on TV or in movies, but rather by what I have witnessed with my own eyes on both sides of this country. And, frankly, those I have personally observed to be the laziest are the white welfare recipients, regardless of gender.

[ariastar]

ton compassion: to feel everything painful that happens to you as magnified and everything painful that happens to others as insignificant is not spiritual

if you have no spiritual life no compassion you are the ones that are truly to be pitied because whatever you have or don't have you will be unhappy

I have no compassion for those who won't even try to help themselves but who are more than happy to bitch and moan about how little they have or how they need more for free. Those who try and still struggle are the ones I have a lot of compassion for. But NOT the ones who are able-bodied and don't try.

[skyz]

(lying on financial aid apps is easy)


hmmm

how do you know this

have you ever applied for financial aid

and if so have you ever lied on a financial aid app

giving false information to government is a criminal offence that much i know

and since you brush of going to college as unnecessary

what do you think of women who want to have babies in fact have other people pay for them to have babies who have no college education

and lastly the real question

if something happened to cody and you were pregnant or had a baby what would you do ?

[ariastar]

oh yes btw if you can get into standford and your family income is below 100K a year your tuition is FREE and if your family income is below 60K room and board are also FREE

and if your family income is below 40K and you can get into harvard your tuition is also FREE

I have no idea where you came up with this. I've known people who've gone to Stanford with a lower family income than this, and while there were grants, there were loans that have to be repaid. Delaying payment isn't free. The one friend working on his PhD did get grants alone, as apparently Stanford funds PhD students as they also work as aides, so they're basically working for their tuition. But by no means is Stanford free.


but for those of a verbose nature and verbally passionate here is the clincher: a killer essay can get you in

It takes more than a killer essay. It helps, but grades and recommendations are necessary to get in, unless they've got a quota to fill, such as more students of a particular race. Otherwise, an essay alone won't get you in.


it isn't only those in poverty who are not willing to make any effort or any adjustments to their daily life to rise above their circumstances

Those who are satisfied with where they are, whether wealthy, middle-class, or in poverty, are least likely to try to rise. And a lot of people in poverty ARE satisfied. If it's what they've known, they're happy with it. Happy with having all their time free to do what they want. Even if it's not something many, if any, of us here would choose. We know different lives that we see as better.

Also plenty of people feel entitled to having things handed to them, so see no need to work, just to complain about not getting enough.

[ariastar]

hmmm

how do you know this

have you ever applied for financial aid

and if so have you ever lied on a financial aid app

giving false information to government is a criminal offence that much i know

and since you brush of going to college as unnecessary

what do you think of women who want to have babies in fact have other people pay for them to have babies who have no college education

and lastly the real question

if something happened to cody and you were pregnant or had a baby what would you do ?



I have friends who've lied on apps and gotten away with it. Doesn't make me happy, but nothing I can do about it. I haven't applied for financial aid. The process is too long to be worth it. $14 per unit is what I was paying when I was taking CIS courses, and about $50 per book. Since I Was doing a course at a time, ten hours of financial aid applications and follow-up wasn't worth saving under $200 when I was making $38 an hour at the job I was working.

For women who want babies, it depends on WHO they want to pay. Tax payers? They can go to hell. A significant other who also wants a baby, or the insurance company that has a policy to cover it? That's fine. And if the woman didn't go to college? That doesn't mean she's an idiot. Plenty of people go to college and are still idiots in the end and living shit-poor. Plenty of people don't go and are brilliant and successful.

College isn't the only means of making money. You know that, and if you think college is the dividing line between the chance at success and not, you're being elitist. College helps, but is NOT necessary. If college is mandatory to success, then I guess Gates and Jobs are both actually very poor and just pulling the wool over our eyes.

If something happened to Cody, I would receive life insurance. We've thought about this. What if something happens to him? If AAC isn't making enough for me to live on, then what? What if something happens to me? Does he stop working, or how would child care be paid? We thought about this. We have substantial life insurance policies at what we estimate to be needed for about ten years' of rent and bills. We're not stupid. We've thought about this. We've already signed up for life insurance, and are already paying it. Once a child is born, that child would be second beneficiary so that, if we both were to die together, the child would receive the money. We've also figured out who would have our child.

We've planned ahead for that, Sky. I know you were probably trying to cause me to stumble, but you won't. We've discussed everything thoroughly, from the what-ifs in case of death to school to discipline to morals we want to instill in our children, even whether or not we want them trained in gun safety. You can ask a question, and I bet I've got an answer. Ask away. I hope you can find something we haven't discussed so we can discuss it.

[skyz]

I have no compassion for those who won't even try to help themselves but who are more than happy to bitch and moan about how little they have or how they need more for free. Those who try and still struggle are the ones I have a lot of compassion for. But NOT the ones who are able-bodied and don't try.


and i have no more patience with people who do not go to college and want other people to help them have a baby and bitch and moan about everything and anything that happens to them

having a child without the backup of a college education is imho ABSOLUTELY IRRESPONSIBLE

if you're so smart that your opinion matters then call standford or go online and apply

standford for free (http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2008/february20/finaid-022008.html)

and it isn't taxpayers $ it is private endowments

surely you are a least as smart as i am aren't you aria

i got a merit based scholarship not because my family couldn't pay but because they wouldn't pay

[ariastar]

and i have no more patience with people who do not go to college and want other people to help them have a baby and bitch and moan about everything and anything that happens to them

having a child without the backup of a college education is imho ABSOLUTELY IRRESPONSIBLE

A child's father helping with the making of a baby isn't wrong.

Then Julie Andrews and Audrey Hepburn were irresponsible for having children without going to college. I guess Bill Gates and Steve Jobs are very irresponsible for not finishing college before having children. And Fratelli Prada must have been an idiot for having kids without college. Good to know it's impossible to be successful unless one gets a degree in something.

Oh, and my dad's dad is a self-made millionaire who never finished high school. Irresponsible prick, what'd he go odd and have kids for? How dare billions of people throughout history have kids without going to college or even having a basic education. Why the Great Depression would have been halted if no one had kids.

Try saying that the only people WORTHY of having kids are those who've gotten a college degree. You'll alienate quite a few people here who either had kids without degrees or whose parents had them and don't have degrees.


if you're so smart that your opinion matters then call standford or go online and apply

standford for free (http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2008/february20/finaid-022008.html)

"Parents with incomes of less than $60,000 will not be expected to pay tuition or contribute to the costs of room, board and other expenses. Students will still be expected to contribute their earnings from work during the summer and academic year." It's not a free ride.

[skyz]

I guess Gates and Jobs are both actually very poor and just pulling the wool over our eyes.

you really can't compare yourself to them both of them went to college but then dropped out and both are successful unless you also are successful this argument doesn't hold

If something happened to Cody, I would receive life insurance

so cody has you covered for the rest of your life dead or alive

there is something quite chilling about that since a year ago you were putting your arm through a window for 'love' of some other guy

i'm done

you go on ignore too

you don't need any help stumbling aria you are doing a good job all by yourself

[ariastar]

so cody has you covered for the rest of your life dead or alive

there is something quite chilling about that since a year ago you were putting your arm through a window for 'love' of some other guy

i'm done

you go on ignore too

you don't need any help stumbling aria you are doing a good job all by yourself



An arm through a window? Uh, no.

The wonderful thing about partnerships is that the partners don't have to contribute equally in all ways for their contributions to still be of equal value. Just because contributions aren't dollar-for-dollar, minute-of-housecleaning-for-minute-of-housecleaning doesn't make a partnership less equal. I will stay home with the children rather than us rely in day care. That is a more valuable contribution to our home than me making cash-money we're paying to someone else to wipe our children's tears over skinned knees. Sad that you don't understand how this works.

Since you supposedly can't read this, then I guess you won't read how you are an absolute elitist who thinks college is the ONLY way to be successful EVER and you have refused to answer what you do for work while condemning others for their choice of work. Yo condemn me for working on a business at home that will enable me to stay home with our children while making money. But I guess entrepreneurial endeavors are only for trust-fun kids supported by Mom and Dad.

[skyz]

A child's father helping with the making of a baby isn't wrong.

Then Julie Andrews and Audrey Hepburn were irresponsible for having children without going to college. I guess Bill Gates and Steve Jobs are very irresponsible for not finishing college before having children. And Fratelli Prada must have been an idiot for having kids without college. Good to know it's impossible to be successful unless one gets a degree in something.

Oh, and my dad's dad is a self-made millionaire who never finished high school. Irresponsible prick, what'd he go odd and have kids for? How dare billions of people throughout history have kids without going to college or even having a basic education. Why the Great Depression would have been halted if no one had kids.

Try saying that the only people WORTHY of having kids are those who've gotten a college degree. You'll alienate quite a few people here who either had kids without degrees or whose parents had them and don't have degrees.

aria you so twist the truth it really is something

you must have / be a real headache

these people were successful without college before they had children

so where is your oscar for costume design where is your microsoft where are your self made millions

if you had any real pride you would not have a donation link in your sig



"Parents with incomes of less than $60,000 will not be expected to pay tuition or contribute to the costs of room, board and other expenses. Students will still be expected to contribute their earnings from work during the summer and academic year." It's not a free ride.

oh wow it isn't entirely free

i thought you were against free rides :confused:

i'm so glad i don't have to live your life aria all that twisting of the truth would kill me it really would

[comhcinc]

Go visit. And please walk through the park at night while you're at it. I'm the one from that nasty little town. If you can find nothing to the contrary, then you can shut up about how it's probably actually some wonderful little town instead of a disgusting dirt pit.

did i say it was a wonderful vacation spot? no. i said i think you are full of shit when you said:
I know of a town where most of the stores closed down because there weren't enough people willing to work. Not a shortage of able-bodied people, just a shortage of able-bodied people willing to work.

i don't believe that. not one bit. i am, in fact, saying that you are lying about that to try and prove your point.

i gave you a chance to prove me wrong. hell, if that really happened then you think there would be at least a local newspaper story about that. something like "Town becomes ghost town as everyone refuses to work" sounds like something that would make the cover of time.


oh yeah. i check with a friend of my that works at the welfare office. she dismissed most of your claims out of hand. able body people can not go on long term welfare, even with kids.

i just wanted to get that in before this thread is locked since you have yet again made another topic on this board about yourself.

[skyz]

An arm through a window? Uh, no.

The wonderful thing about partnerships is that the partners don't have to contribute equally in all ways for their contributions to still be of equal value. Just because contributions aren't dollar-for-dollar, minute-of-housecleaning-for-minute-of-housecleaning doesn't make a partnership less equal. I will stay home with the children rather than us rely in day care. That is a more valuable contribution to our home than me making cash-money we're paying to someone else to wipe our children's tears over skinned knees. Sad that you don't understand how this works.

Since you supposedly can't read this, then I guess you won't read how you are an absolute elitist who thinks college is the ONLY way to be successful EVER and you have refused to answer what you do for work while condemning others for their choice of work. Yo condemn me for working on a business at home that will enable me to stay home with our children while making money. But I guess entrepreneurial endeavors are only for trust-fun kids supported by Mom and Dad.

my mom died when i was 2 aria

my father cared more about his yachts then he cared about me and my brother

my stepmonster II told me i wasn't college material when i told that to my honors counsellor she almost choked it was so not true

but i got a scholarship for being brilliant and i worked it to the max

i thought still think it way more honorable than living off a man aria

which in truth is exactly what you are doing alive or dead cody is what is putting food in your mouth

you know what i despise aria

i despise those who are untruthful

it is one thing to be untruthful on a job application because you really need a job

it is another thing to be untruthful to those who love you your partner and friends because you need their support

but when you lie to yourself you are lost aria

[ariastar]

did i say it was a wonderful vacation spot? no. i said i think you are full of shit when you said:


i don't believe that. not one bit. i am, in fact, saying that you are lying about that to try and prove your point.

i gave you a chance to prove me wrong. hell, if that really happened then you think there would be at least a local newspaper story about that. something like "Town becomes ghost town as everyone refuses to work" sounds like something that would make the cover of time.


oh yeah. i check with a friend of my that works at the welfare office. she dismissed most of your claims out of hand. able body people can not go on long term welfare, even with kids.

i just wanted to get that in before this thread is locked since you have yet again made another topic on this board about yourself.

Your friend is full of shit. If the office she's at actually enforces terms, great, I wish more offices would kick people off after two years or whatever it's supposed to be. Try telling that to my aunts though who've collected welfare nearly the entire time I've been alive. You've got to be a huge idiot if you really believe that how things are SUPPOSED to work is how the ALWAYS actually work in practice. You know they're not going to always kick people off welfare when they have kids so the kids don't eat or have a place to live. In some towns, the workers are so exhausted with this that the recipients pretty much know how to play the system for every penny they can. I've seen this with my own god damned eyes.

Winton doesn't have a town newspaper anymore, I don't believe. The nearest one would be the Merced Sun Star, which didn't even mention it when my cousin Darryl was murdered in Winton. Winton is a town that is all but ignored. Crime and such isn't news there. It's be like reporting a car stopped at a stop light. If you think that Winton is just fine and dandy, fine something to show it's just fine of a town instead of one riddled with welfare recipients and crime. Otherwise don't talk about what you don't know. You haven't been there. You are in no fucking position to say that the town is anything else.

[ariastar]

my mom died when i was 2 aria

my father cared more about his yachts then he cared about me and my brother

my stepmonster II told me i wasn't college material when i told that to my honors counsellor she almost choked it was so not true

but i got a scholarship for being brilliant and i worked it to the max

i thought still think it way more honorable than living off a man aria

which in truth is exactly what you are doing alive or dead cody is what is putting food in your mouth

you know what i despise aria

i despise those who are untruthful

it is one thing to be untruthful on a job application

it is another thing to be untruthful to those who love you your partner and friends

but when you lie to yourself you are lost aria



Yachts. Plural. You come from a rich family and try to claim hardship. I'm not buying it.

You have no right to say how our relationship should work. When Cody first came up here, he was financially reliant on me. Then I was laid off. So? It's our business if we're trying to work things so one of us can stay home to raise our children rather than send them off to day care when they turn six weeks old. Contributions in a relationship aren't limited to what each person can bring monetarily. There is more in this world than Prada and Chanel. Just because you feel your parents brushed you aside doesn't mean other kids should be shuttled off to day care instead of being raised by mom and dad. I think you are envious of a child who hasn't yet been conceived because that child wouldn't be passed over for a yacht or two. Well too bad.

And if you think I'm being untruthful to Cody based on what I say here, well, I've got news for you. He can read every word I post here. If I'm being untruthful, he can read it himself and would have a problem with it. but he's no correcting me.

And what happened to being on ignore? A little untruth there?

[comhcinc]

Your friend is full of shit. If the office she's at actually enforces terms, great. Try telling that to my aunts though who've collected welfare nearly the entire time I've been alive. Winton doesn't have a town newspaper anymore, I don't believe. The nearest one would be the Merced Sun Star, which didn't even mention it when my cousin Darryl was murdered in Winton. Winton is a town that is all but ignored. Crime and such isn't news there. It's be like reporting a car stopped at a stop light. If you think that Winton is just fine and dandy, fine something to show it's just fine of a town instead of one riddled with welfare recipients and crime. Otherwise don't talk about what you don't know. You haven't been there. You are in no fucking position to say that the town is anything else.

HaHaHa I just caught you. You forget I lived in San Fransisco and I have a friend that lives in Atwater ( which has the closes paper btw). She told me, "Yeah it has a high crime rate, No I am not afraid to drive through there at night, No I have never heard of stores closing there behind everyone refuses to work, that is just silly".

And again I never said Winton was "fine and dandy" I said I didn't believe the bull about "Stores Closing because Everyone Refuses To Work" that is a lie. pure and simple.


Oh btw you need to take your own advice when it comes to talking about things you have no clue about. My friend in the welfare office has a masters agree and handles information between the state and feds. she knows this stuff, you do not.

Question: if everyone refuses to work then how is the town still there? where do people spend their welfare money at?

Question: why not go there and get a job? it sounds like a great job market.

[ariastar]

HaHaHa I just caught you. You forget I lived in San Fransisco and I have a friend that lives in Atwater ( which has the closes paper btw). She told me, "Yeah it has a high crime rate, No I am not afraid to drive through there at night, No I have never heard of stores closing there behind everyone refuses to work, that is just silly".

And again I never said Winton was "fine and dandy" I said I didn't believe the bull about "Stores Closing because Everyone Refuses To Work" that is a lie. pure and simple.


Oh btw you need to take your own advice when it comes to talking about things you have no clue about. My friend in the welfare office has a masters agree and handles information between the state and feds. she knows this stuff, you do not.

Question: if everyone refuses to work then how is the town still there? where do people spend their welfare money at?

Question: why not go there and get a job? it sounds like a great job market.

Winton is where I'm from, where my family is from, asshat. There is a small grocery store, a gas station, and not much else. No way in fuck am I going to go to that shit-hole. I don't care if the grocery store is hiring and is having trouble finding a clerk. No fucking way would I go there. Period. No job is worth it to live in that god-forsaken area.

I don't care jack shit about your friend. How about asking her to go look over the case files for everyone with the last name Reynolds in that town and answer for me while people like Melanie and Joyce have been collecting welfare for nearly two decades. If she can get them kicked off of it, I'd be glad for it.

I dare you to go drive out to Winton on Friday night and hang out in the park around midnight. Atwater has police. Winton does not. Driving through is not the same as getting out and walking around. Driving through is in a car getting THROUGH there. Atwater is still an icky town, though not as bad. Winton should be fenced in. I haven't been there in five years come this December 24th, nor do I ever care to go back to that shit hole. But if you think it sounds fine, you can go there. Atwater is not Winton. Atwater at least has a high school.

[comhcinc]

Winton is where I'm from, where my family is from, asshat. There is a small grocery store, a gas station, and not much else. No way in fuck am I going to go to that shit-hole. I don't care if the grocery store is hiring and is having trouble finding a clerk. No fucking way would I go there. Period. No job is worth it to live in that god-forsaken area.wait, i thought all the stores closed down?

I don't care jack shit about your friend. How about asking her to go look over the case files for everyone with the last name Reynolds in that town and answer for me while people like Melanie and Joyce have been collecting welfare for nearly two decades. If she can get them kicked off of it, I'd be glad for it.
of course you don't care. she knows what she is talking about and you don't. if it really so bad and you really hate them so much why don't you report them ( this has been brought up before and i asked you the same question then)
I dare you to go drive out to Winton on Friday night and hang out in the park around midnight. Atwater has police. Winton does not. Driving through is not the same as getting out and walking around. Driving through is in a car getting THROUGH there. Atwater is still an icky town, though not as bad. Winton should be fenced in. I haven't been there in five years come this December 24th, nor do I ever care to go back to that shit hole. But if you think it sounds fine, you can go there. Atwater is not Winton. Atwater at least has a high school.

wait if you haven't been there in five years how do you know it is so bad? really your story makes no sense. as for your little dare, well lets just say if you have any money to make that bet i would gladly take you up on it. i have been in plenty of places worst that winton, ca.


you hate poor people and you hate this town. your hate clouds your ( already some what shakie ) judgment.

this thread has gone completely off topic and i am not even sure if i will get post off before it is closed

[skyz]

you hate
.....and you hate.....your hate clouds your judgment.


that's it

that is exactly the case

i feel for any child born of a parent so full of hate

[ariastar]

wait, i thought all the stores closed down?

Never did I say all. Just some.


of course you don't care. she knows what she is talking about and you don't. if it really so bad and you really hate them so much why don't you report them ( this has been brought up before and i asked you the same question then)

They've been reported, nothing happens.


wait if you haven't been there in five years how do you know it is so bad? really your story makes no sense. as for your little dare, well lets just say if you have any money to make that bet i would gladly take you up on it. i have been in plenty of places worst that winton, ca.

Worse in what way? Welfare-wise? Crime? I've still got a ton of relatives here my mom still talks to. We still hear about it. My grandma, who is NOT on welfare, who lives there, said it's gotten worse.


you hate poor people and you hate this town. your hate clouds your ( already some what shakie ) judgment.

I hate poor people who are able-bodied and choose to instead complain about how the system owes them more instead of getting jobs. If you can work and won't, tough luck, don't bitch about how you should get more welfare. I don't hate poor people who are making an honest effort to get by and need temporary assistance.

[ariastar]

that's it

that is exactly the case

i feel for any child born of a parent so full of hate



Say she crying about daddy spending time on his multiple yachts.

[ariastar]

Commie, Sky, you are both on ignore. Neither of you are worth the time of day.

[comhcinc]

Never did I say all. Just some.

some? some? you just claimed that it only has three stores. make up your mind.


They've been reported, nothing happens.
then that means they have been research and there is a reason why they are still on welfare, or you are lying.

Worse in what way? Welfare-wise? Crime? I've still got a ton of relatives here my mom still talks to. We still hear about it. My grandma, who is NOT on welfare, who lives there, said it's gotten worse.


yeah it's call a war zone. i have been in two. deal.

I hate poor people who are able-bodied and choose to instead complain about how the system owes them more instead of getting jobs. If you can work and won't, tough luck, don't bitch about how you should get more welfare. I don't hate poor people who are making an honest effort to get by and need temporary assistance.

whatever. able bodied people are only allowed to be on temporary assistance. if you had half the clue you think you do, you would know that.

[rabidbadger]

is it really any of your biz ?



It's my biz if you are arguing about other folks not having jobs, then not having one yourself.

[ariastar]

It's my biz if you are arguing about other folks not having jobs, then not having one yourself.

Bingo. But don't forget, Joel, having a degree makes one superior.

[skyz]

It's my biz if you are arguing about other folks not having jobs, then not having one yourself.

is it really ?

who says you and aria the choronic whiner

the issue was about being pissed off about freeloaders getting a friggin phone

i have no problem with giving a hand to those less fortunate

i am not going capitualte to your demand to satisfy your 'curiosity'

what are you going to do about it ?

go on AIM and gossip gossip gossip ?

like this affects me how ?

i don't have to live with aria

i don't have to be aria

i feel sorry for aria but not for any of the many many many reasons she says i should

i feel sorry for her because she distorts the truth and eventually that would cause anyone suffering

she wants to stay home and have a baby and let someone else work

i want to earn a billion dollars on my own just for the fuck of it

i like a challenge i like to go up against the odds and win

aria is imho an idiot for not trying to get into standford with free tution and a bf to pay the rent and feed her

that's many a girl's dream come true

her defenses against have a degree are going to wear thin as time goes by

i think she doesn't have the guts to even try

to merely fill out the application and see if she is good enough in their view

she said she was uber smart

so why not prove it ?

[xibalba]

can a mod/admin delete all the post that have nothing to do with the topic ones about peoples personal lives and such...

[gimpbully]

Closed (srry, not enough time to filter out OT posts).
can a mod/admin delete all the post that have nothing to do with the topic ones about peoples personal lives and such...