View Full Version : mccain suspends campaign to address 700 B bailout
ABC News’ George Stephanopoulos and Rick Klein report: Sen. John McCain on Wednesday said he would “suspend” his presidential campaign to come to Washington to help negotiate a financial bailout bill, a dramatic move designed to seize a powerful issue.
However a senior Obama campaign official said Obama "intends to debate."
"The debate is on," a senior Obama campaign official told ABC News.
McCain said he called on the Commission on Presidential Debates to postpone the debate scheduled for Friday in Mississippi, to ensure quick congressional action. The campaign is also suspending its advertising, pending an agreement with Obama.
“I have spoken to Senator Obama and informed him of my decision and have asked him to join me,” McCain planned to say in New York City, according to advance excerpts released by his campaign. “I am calling on the president to convene a meeting with the leadership from both houses of Congress, including Senator Obama and myself. It is time for both parties to come together to solve this problem.”
Obama supporter and chief debate negotiator Rep. Rahm Emanuel, D-Ill., told MSNBC that "we can handle both," when asked about his reaction to McCain's call to postpone the first debate because of the administration's bailout plan.
He believes they are making good progress on Capitol Hill on the bailout and his initial reaction is that the work on the Hill should not preclude the debate from taking place.
An Obama campaign official told ABC News the Democratic presidential candidate called McCain this morning to suggest a joint statement of principles.
McCain called back this afternoon and suggested returning to Washington.
Obama is willing to return to Washington "if it would be helpful." But reiterated Obama intends to debate on Friday.
so mccain thinks it is in the best interests of the country that the focus should be on 700 B which is allegedly urgent business
obama intends to debate
now you all know i am no fan of mccain but in this case i think he is behaving responsibly
Obama is willing to return to Washington "if it would be helpful." But reiterated Obama intends to debate on Friday
WTF i thought it was both of their jobs to serve the post they now hold
i mean the current crises is economic and it is a big crises
foreign policy at the moment is theoretical the economy is the real thing and whoever is our next prez is going to have to be responsible for the results
this time i think mccain gets the point
let obama debate with himself (i'm sure he will concede in the end to the postponement) but he looks bad in trivializing this crisis in his concern about his campaign imho
i think we are entitled to know how both these men vote before the elections
this isn't practice this is real
abc (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/09/mccain-not-comm.html)
bigshotprof
09-24-2008, 09:27 PM
He did it about an hour after practice. Guess practice didn't go that well. Who can take this seriously? He and Obama have been running laps around the country for the past eighteen months. Does he really think they can't run the country without him? This is just another example of stunt campaigning.
I think they should return to vote, but that they shouldn't suspend the campaign or postpone the debate over this. There are 48 other Senators who can debate the legislation, but there are only two who may be our next President. We deserve to see how they'll vote on this issue, but we also deserve to see the two candidates debate each other's policies so that we can have the most information possible in choosing who our next President will be. This bailout will happen regardless of the actions of Senators McCain and Obama, bar voting.
It's also worth mentioning that neither Obama or McCain are economic gurus, even in terms of the Senate. The Senators who know the most about the economy are already there debating over the bill with Secretary Paulson, I don't see what Obama or McCain could contribute that outweighs the fact that the electorate won't get to see the candidates' debate their policies.
It seems fairly clear to me that McCain is simply doing this because he knows the economy is his weak point and he's trying to make it look like he actually knows what he's talking about(which he has admitted he doesn't and demonstrated he doesn't through his repeated calls for deregulation.) I also find it interesting that he decides to suspend his campaign today, even though the story broke last week and the debate started yesterday. The only thing which could have persuaded him over the last 24 hours is that it's become increasingly clear that the American public has had enough of the GOP's broken Reaganomics given that as the economy gets worse, Obama does better.
Does he really think they can't run the country without him?
yeah i guess he does think that his input is important
that is why he is running laps around the country as you so allude
a stunt :rolleyes:
how serious does this situation have to get for it to be real not stunt
whoever wins is going to have to live with the decision
if i were a candidate that would be what was on mind
of course to the obama cult members obama is always right
that is blind allegiance that's not good
given that as the economy gets worse, Obama does better.
so if we totally tank the economy you really think obama can fix it
i don't think anyone can if it gets even worse
both know that how they vote on this is going to effect the results of this race
when it comes to this kind of $ people can change their minds real fast either way
tokenuser
09-24-2008, 09:50 PM
On the way back from getting my haircut, I was listening to NPR. Apparently McCain and Obama are nutting out the details of a joint statement - a bipartisan statement - of common economic beliefs. While the debate is still scheduled to go ahead, McCain ads are being pulled from TV until probably Monday.
The cynic in me says "Great way to save money John."
The optimist in me says "Great way to bring the country closer together on a common issue."
The realist in me says "Great ... more Palin coverage, I wonder what her vast experience has to contribute."
The cynic in me says "Great way to save money John."
The optimist in me says "Great way to bring the country closer together on a common issue."
The realist in me says "Great ... more Palin coverage, I wonder what her vast experience has to contribute."
i don't think mccain is looking to save money
they should both be focused on this issue it is a huge issue with immense repercussions
and yes here and on digg there is more interest in palin being hacked and such ilk then there is on this truly big deal serious issue
palin is not a senator she has no vote in this
i really think that most people on this board do not realize that this situation is inevitably going to affect them
that is disturbing big time
as long as they have their ipods and iphones everything is cool and will remain so
NOT
esophagus
09-24-2008, 10:09 PM
Everyone gets that this will touch them somehow. I'm a Canadian, and I realize it will get to me to. You're judging everyone based on posts in a single thread.
The situation as I see it:
One of these two men is going to run the country. Since the economy's problem isn't going to be solved by election time, this means one of them is going to be handed the burden. So we can watch them debate, and I'm sure this would be a topic of debate, and pick a better president with a more full perspective, or allow them to vote in a matter where they are only two fish in the sea.
bigshotprof
09-24-2008, 10:14 PM
yeah i guess he does think that his input is important
that is why he is running laps around the country as you so allude
a stunt :rolleyes:
You'll have to forgive me for being cynical, but the economy is in no worse shape than it was yesterday, before the poll numbers showed that the public is blaming the GOP for the mess almost 2 to 1. So today, Obama reaches out, McCain goes to his debate practice, then announces his deeply held concern. If this was an isolated case, it would be one thing, but there is Palin--an obvious and dangerous stunt. Also, when they were trying to get people OUT of the hurricane ravaged areas, he, his entourage and two planes full of press went down there to look "leaderly."--papa bear has become pander bear. You can't blame me for being suspicious. What expertise is he even going to offer? He is on record as being light on economics. If he is really sincere, he and the media circus that will follow him will stay out of the way and let the people who know what they are doing do it--just like during the storm.
how serious does this situation have to get for it to be real not stunt
The situation is serious; his response is not.
Everyone gets that this will touch them somehow. I'm a Canadian, and I realize it will get to me to. You're judging everyone based on posts in a single thread.
The situation as I see it:
One of these two men is going to run the country. Since the economy's problem isn't going to be solved by election time, this means one of them is going to be handed the burden. So we can watch them debate, and I'm sure this would be a topic of debate, and pick a better president with a more full perspective, or allow them to vote in a matter where they are only two fish in the sea.
the topic of the debate is to foreign policy that is what obama is prepared for
i think it would be excellent if the topic were changed to the economy
both would tackle unprepared like of pop quiz
but foreign policy is not the prime issue now right now it is superfluous and no one is saying cancel the debate but postpone it
but change the topic would be the most appropriate action imho
yes i took you off ignore
The situation is serious; his response is not.
but if it were obama who suspended his campaign and suggested the debates be postponed or the topic changed then it would only be proofof his superiority and sincerity wouldn't it
too bad he didn't think of that
i wonder why he missed such a golden opportunity
esophagus
09-24-2008, 10:28 PM
yes i took you off ignoreHa! I love the footnote.
I think changing the topic would be a great compromise, but thats not going to happen.
bigshotprof
09-24-2008, 11:44 PM
but if it were obama who suspended his campaign and suggested the debates be postponed or the topic changed then it would only be proofof his superiority and sincerity wouldn't it
too bad he didn't think of that
i wonder why he missed such a golden opportunity
Why do you assume that I think that?
esophagus
09-24-2008, 11:50 PM
Why do you assume that I think that?
Because everyone who likes Obama is nothing but a sheep. Remember?
Why do you assume that I think that?
i wasn't referring to you in particular but the general tone that whatever mccain does is suspect but everything obama does is noble
so even though you might not have thought that most obama supporters would
it is the blind faith in obama that concerns me
i'm not for either
masherscf
09-25-2008, 12:21 AM
i wasn't referring to you in particular but the general tone that whatever mccain does is suspect but everything obama does is noble
so even though you might not have thought that most obama supporters would
it is the blind faith in obama that concerns me
i'm not for either
Suspecting McCain's motives does not equate to blind faith in Obama.
The only thing I've heard here is general enthusiasm for each man that each person hopes will be president. It's completely natural to like the person you're going to vote for. Both candidates are affable gentlemen.
You've been prickly about this for months. I love you Skyz, but you need to speak with someone about this Obama thing.
so if we totally tank the economy you really think obama can fix it
i don't think anyone can if it gets even worse
both know that how they vote on this is going to effect the results of this race
when it comes to this kind of $ people can change their minds real fast either way
I'm not saying that I'm sure Obama can fix it. What I was trying to communicate, and apparently failed to, is that McCain understands that Obama is the candidate who polls higher the more things go down the wrong path and so he has to make it look like he's on top of things, when in reality there's very little either Senator can do.
In someways, Obama and McCain are the last people who the other Senators probably want in Washington because the other Senators like Dodd and Shelby probably don't want to have to deal with the Presidential politics while solving the problem.
but if it were obama who suspended his campaign and suggested the debates be postponed or the topic changed then it would only be proofof his superiority and sincerity wouldn't it
too bad he didn't think of that
i wonder why he missed such a golden opportunity
It would look questionable, but you have to remember, McCain has been caught in lie after lie after lie and is suddenly suspending his campaign after a round of bad polling. If it was solely the crisis, McCain could have suspended it earlier and attended the hearing yesterday. The timing is simply very questionable.
For the record, I would oppose it even if Obama was the one suspending as I think the American people have a right to hear from the candidates given that while the economic crisis is huge, it's not our only problem. We've got chaos in the nuclear armed Pakistan, for one. Not to mention the war in Iraq.
Suspecting McCain's motives does not equate to blind faith in Obama.
The only thing I've heard here is general enthusiasm for each man that each person hopes will be president. It's completely natural to like the person you're going to vote for. Both candidates are affable gentlemen.
You've been prickly about this for months. I love you Skyz, but you need to speak with someone about this Obama thing.
well i don't know about that as obama's motives are never questioned which seems to me blind faith
except by crumbles blanketing him in with 'liberals'
i thought is was speaking to someone(s)here am i not allowed to do so
is my 'free speech' not within rev3 rules
you can ban me anytime
i won't cry or rail against it
and as i have said i am not for either candidate
i'm for balanced rationality
masherscf
09-25-2008, 01:11 AM
is my 'free speech' not within rev3 rules
you can ban me anytime
Oh please, I was speaking as a buddy, not as a mod.
In someways, Obama and McCain are the last people who the other Senators probably want in Washington because the other Senators like Dodd and Shelby probably don't want to have to deal with the Presidential politics while solving the problem.
maybe not
but it is their job to do so
that is why they were elected
and they are both collecting a paycheck for being senators
i think that seeing how they handle a real crisis of the moment is a great test of who we should trust
rather than debate hypothetical issues
this issue will be resolved before whoever is elected is in office the war won't be
and the debates were not ever to be cancelled but merely postponed
Oh please, I was speaking as a buddy, not as a mod.
oh it was a joke
fine as soon as crumbles' counsellor has some free time i'll see about it
maybe :D
maybe not
but it is their job to do so
that is why they were elected
and they are both collecting a paycheck for being senators
i think that seeing how they handle a real crisis of the moment is a great test of who we should trust
We can see that without them suspending their campaigns. Obama has held a consistant stance on the issue(that some bailout is necessary, but that we need oversight and we need to give some of the money to middle-class famileis to help them stay afloat) while McCain has flip-flopped constantly going from denying the crisis early last week, to saying it was bad, to saying it meant we needed to fire the SEC chairman(who the president can't fire), to saying that he was doing a great job, to opposing the AIG bail out to supporting the AIG bail out. Obama has been strong and stood firm while McCain can't decide if he's Herbert Hoover or FDR.
[COLOR="Plum"]rather than debate hypothetical issues
this issue will be resolved before whoever is elected is in office the war won't be
and the debates were not ever to be cancelled but merely postponed
McCain wanted them postponed, but given that the group in charge of the debates has made it clear that the debate will be going forward, if McCain doesn't show up(which I doubt will happen), it will effectively be free airtime for an Obama speech.
masherscf
09-25-2008, 02:17 AM
BTW, with only 5-weeks left to the campaign season. Postpone=Cancel. This may be the first Presidential Campaign for half-a-century without a Presidential debate because the Republicans can't face up to the "The Economy is basically Sound" lies that they've been spinning for that last 18-months. I'm not saying that there isn't a conservative solution to this crisis. However, denying that there is a crisis is neither conservative nor a solution. Nevertheless, denial is business as usual for the Bush White House and an unfortunate talking point for the McCain campaign.
So, McCain is jumping on the "Bull-Shit" express and headed back to the hill for a few quick soundbites and a chance to look presidential.
bigshotprof
09-25-2008, 03:06 AM
I'm bored with talking to guys about politics. Let's go over to Popsiren and get a latte!!
masherscf
09-25-2008, 03:07 AM
I'm bored with talking to guys about politics. Let's go over to Popsiren and get a latte!!
Deal. Popsiren it is. Do you think that dreamy Moujan will be there?
BTW, with only 5-weeks left to the campaign season. Postpone=Cancel. This may be the first Presidential Campaign for half-a-century without a Presidential debate because the Republicans can't face up to the "The Economy is basically Sound" lies that they've been spinning for that last 18-months. I'm not saying that there isn't a conservative solution to this crisis. However, denying that there is a crisis is neither conservative nor a solution. Nevertheless, denial is business as usual for the Bush White House and an unfortunate talking point for the McCain campaign.
So, McCain is jumping on the "Bull-Shit" express and headed back to the hill for a few quick soundbites and a chance to look presidential.
Exactly.
tokenuser
09-25-2008, 03:45 AM
Deal. Popsiren it is. Do you think that dreamy Moujan will be there?I bet Moujan likes Obama ... but that Sarah chick has Palin/McCain (face it, thats the way the ticket should be) written all over her.
(joke)
masherscf
09-25-2008, 04:16 AM
I wouldn't have figured Sarah favored the "God will save us" plan for national redemption.
yssman
09-25-2008, 07:11 PM
My only issue with this is that McCain seems to believe that he is taking the "high road" here by doing this when in fact he is doing the exact opposite... He is politicizing what would otherwise be a national crisis, and to that end, I back up Obama's stance to keep the debate going with McCain there or not.
To that end, I'm surprised that they're not discussing the $25 Billion loan to the Detroit automakers...
secret-steve-crumbles
09-25-2008, 07:21 PM
My only issue with this is that McCain seems to believe that he is taking the "high road" here by doing this when in fact he is doing the exact opposite... He is politicizing what would otherwise be a national crisis, and to that end, I back up Obama's stance to keep the debate going with McCain there or not.
To that end, I'm surprised that they're not discussing the $25 Billion loan to the Detroit automakers...To that end.
ariastar
09-25-2008, 08:47 PM
McCain and Palin haven't exactly proven to be strong in debates or interviews. This is nothing more than a stunt to get them out of having to do more that they hope will make people like them. We can get by for another six weeks with the economy as it is. They, however, have given so few interviews and participated in so few debates (and come off looking like idiots) that it's pretty clear they're desperate to not have to do it again, and the way to get out of it, and hope to look good, is to cite the economy.
It's especially obvious when you consider that the McCain campaign has opened offices while it's "suspended", has released talking points for its surrogates about the fact that it's 'suspended' and that McCain took time out to speak at the Clinton global initiative, and spent the night in New York despite the fact that it was supposedly critical that he gets back to D.C. to deal with the economy.
Of course, he only arrived in D.C. today after an agreement had already been reached, though you wouldn't know it from the way the McCain campaign is trying to once again give McCain credit for something he had nothing to do with like they did with the Blackberry and the new G.I. bill.
ariastar
09-26-2008, 12:28 AM
Heh, he's more like a kid pretending to be sick to get out of taking a test he didn't study for.
masherscf
09-26-2008, 12:45 AM
Of course, he only arrived in D.C. today after an agreement had already been reached, though you wouldn't know it from the way the McCain campaign is trying to once again give McCain credit for something he had nothing to do with like they did with the Blackberry and the new G.I. bill.
But, Bush said it was all McCain's idea. This is the Bush definition of leadership. That is, let someone else lead or tell lies about it.
yssman
09-26-2008, 06:12 AM
Of course, he only arrived in D.C. today after an agreement had already been reached, though you wouldn't know it from the way the McCain campaign is trying to once again give McCain credit for something he had nothing to do with like they did with the Blackberry and the new G.I. bill.
Its not just that, its the fact that the bill was already falling apart by the time he arrived. When McCain walks around like he is economic Jesus, waving the finger at Obama for not addressing the issue immediately, despite the fact that it took McCain himself 10 days to even get around to maybe dealing with it... My God, I just feel like my head is going to explode.
John McCain added absolutely NOTHING to the debate on the floor in the House and Senate. He has served as a distraction for the media, for the members of congress, and to the end arrived in a manner that shall continue to be uncivilized and likely unresolved.
When you've got House Republicans fighting the bill that he is supposed to be supporting, the people that are supposed to be on his side with the choice of Gov. Palin, you know damn well that this is the beginning of the end for his campaign.
John McCain added absolutely NOTHING to the debate on the floor in the House and Senate. He has served as a distraction for the media, for the members of congress, and to the end arrived in a manner that shall continue to be uncivilized and likely unresolved.
"However, the Democrats allowed Sen. Obama to run their side of the meeting," the statement added. "That did not work as the meeting quickly devolved into a contentious shouting match that did not seek to craft a bipartisan solution."
as i have said many times i am not a mccain supporter nor an obama supporter
but if politics is a matter of my guy is always right and the other guy is always wrong then no wonder we end up with people like bush as prez
mccain is not all wrong always and obama is not all right always
obame is not always all ways right and mccain is not always all ways wrong
link (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/Story?id=5884701&page=2)
comhcinc
09-26-2008, 03:40 PM
I am not going to say that Obama is out there helping anything, but I can say that McCain has messed things up when it comes to the bailout ( which is good in my book, I don't want it to happen anyway)
John C. Dvorak had some interest thoughts on McCain (http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=25661)
I don't want it to happen anyway)
neither do i
something about 'the total economy will fail it will be a global disaster unless..'
reminds me of 'we must attack iraq because the have WMD'
in either case even if the premise were true or somewhat true
i don't think that the demanded actions actually fixed or are going to fix the problem
for once i want congress to say JUST SAY NO to bush
comhcinc
09-26-2008, 03:52 PM
i was supporting the plan for a while. it looks like a good idea on the surface. once i had time to really study up on it, i see how bad an idea it really is.
secret-steve-crumbles
09-26-2008, 03:54 PM
You guys are acting like this was supposed to be the first debate. This debate would actually be their 11th debate had Obama not said "No" to the previous 10 that McCain wanted.
Of course, there's no mention of this in the mainstream media for the chosen one.
"If Barack Obama had agreed to McCain's summer proposal to do joint town halls, the candidate and Steve Schmidt said, this would only be one more of many sessions featuring the two major party nominees.
"I understand that there is a lot of attention on this but I also wish Senator Obama had agreed to ten or more town hall meetings that I had asked him to attend with me," McCain told ABC's Charlie Gibson when asked in an interview broadcast on World News Tonight whether there would be a debate Friday in Mississippi as planned. "Wouldn't be quite that much urgency if he agreed to do that, instead he refused to do it."
Talking to the campaign pool reporter later, Schmidt said McCain hoped to make it to Oxford before shifting the conversation.
"He had actually hoped this would be the 11th debate of the campaign, not the first," Schmidt said. "He's very disappointed in Sen. Obama about that because this could have been the 11th debate. Sen. Obama said he would debate anywhere, anyplace, anytime. He refused to do that."
Full Article (http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/0908/McCain_camp_raising_town_halls_again_as_pressure_b uilds.html) (for everyone except Token and GoNZoo)
masherscf
09-26-2008, 03:55 PM
I am not going to say that Obama is out there helping anything, but I can say that McCain has messed things up when it comes to the bailout ( which is good in my book, I don't want it to happen anyway)
John C. Dvorak had some interest thoughts on McCain (http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=25661)
I think this whole thing was a botched campaign stunt cooked up someplace. Sure, there's a crisis and they were going to ask congress for a bailout. However, usually the Republican party has no problem quietly getting members inline for these sorts of things. Instead, Bush et al make it a big drama about it. This was after months of acting like there's no problem at all. I guess the idea was that, "As long as we have to admit we fucked up, lets try and turn it to a positive" So, they stage this thing were McCain comes sailing in like some white knight. The only problem, the timing didn't work. Instead of McCain look presentational in the face of a financial 9/11, they all looked kinda foolish. Because, in the end, congress will give the Fed just what they asked for in the first place. The rest of it was a pointless bull-shit session to look good for voters who are royally pissed.
secret-steve-crumbles
09-26-2008, 03:57 PM
John C. Dvorak had some interest thoughts on McCain (http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=25661)OMG, please. Letterman is such a hardcore lefty. Like that really matters in the slightest.
masherscf
09-26-2008, 04:05 PM
OMG, please. Letterman is such a hardcore lefty. Like that really matters in the slightest.
I guess that means that it's okay to lie to someone as long as she/he is a liberal. Dismissing the feelings of someone on the grounds that they disagree with you might be business as usual, but it's not good politics.
comhcinc
09-26-2008, 04:12 PM
OMG, please. Letterman is such a hardcore lefty. Like that really matters in the slightest.
a hardcore lefty who reaches millions of people every night. ain't you the one that is always complaining about the left wing media?
no the really problem is he called out McCain for lying to him. McCain lied pure and simple.
yssman
09-26-2008, 04:19 PM
OMG, please. Letterman is such a hardcore lefty. Like that really matters in the slightest.
That doesn't hold a drop of water whatsoever in this argument. It is well-known that McCain and Letterman are good friends, and have been for a long time. For that matter, as a McCain supporter, you should know that he (McCain) announced his candidacy for President on the Letterman show.
What gives?
He lied to his friend, his fans, and then people scream over Letterman being a liberal? What a great way to alienate a massive amount of potential voters...
But, Bush said it was all McCain's idea. This is the Bush definition of leadership. That is, let someone else lead or tell lies about it.
Exactly.
Its not just that, its the fact that the bill was already falling apart by the time he arrived. When McCain walks around like he is economic Jesus, waving the finger at Obama for not addressing the issue immediately, despite the fact that it took McCain himself 10 days to even get around to maybe dealing with it... My God, I just feel like my head is going to explode.
John McCain added absolutely NOTHING to the debate on the floor in the House and Senate. He has served as a distraction for the media, for the members of congress, and to the end arrived in a manner that shall continue to be uncivilized and likely unresolved.
When you've got House Republicans fighting the bill that he is supposed to be supporting, the people that are supposed to be on his side with the choice of Gov. Palin, you know damn well that this is the beginning of the end for his campaign.
Yep. The hypocrisy has been one of the more frustrating aspects. McCain goes around saying that he puts the country first while he is politicizing the very thing that is supposedly more important than politics.
OMG, please. Letterman is such a hardcore lefty. Like that really matters in the slightest.
Doesn't matter. McCain still shouldn't have lied to him. He should have had the courtesy to simply give Letterman "straight-talk." Also, as YSSMAN pointed out, McCain announced his candidacy on Letterman, so he appears to think that Letterman matters.
secret-steve-crumbles
09-26-2008, 05:41 PM
All I'm saying is Letterman's replay of his conversation with McCain may not have been entirely accurate. You're saying he lied because of something Letterman said at the last second after he was about to show the video of McCain somewhere else.
McCain didn't do Letterman's show because he changed his schedule around when he decided to go to DC. Calling him a liar because he was not literally stepping on an airplane at the moment he told Letterman he couldn't do the show misses the point about why he didn't do the show in the first place.
Show me where McCain said to him that he was in the middle of rushing to the airport. The best you can do is point at Letterman's lips.
Partisanship is one thing, but to me it goes too far when people scream "liar!" at a guy who can help the country avoid a market meltdown and severe recession, just because he didn't appear on some talk show. We all have a stake in having this problem fixed.
Except McCain can't help. The deal was nearly done when McCain arrived and caused it to collapse. He's also heading to the debate even though the problem which he suspended his campaign to solve hasn't been solved. McCain's only accomplishment while his campaign was "suspended"(since it actually wasn't) has been to make things worse.
I am surprised you support the bailout given that it's socialism for the rich.
comhcinc
09-26-2008, 05:52 PM
Partisanship is one thing, but to me it goes too far when people scream "liar!" at a guy who can help the country avoid a market meltdown and severe recession, just because he didn't appear on some talk show. We all have a stake in having this problem fixed.
first off the man knows nothing about the market or the economy. he has said so himself. he wasn't in washington fixing the problem, he was doing an interview no where near washington.
We all have a stake in having this problem fixed.
you are for the bail out? what ever happened to the free market?
secret-steve-crumbles
09-26-2008, 05:59 PM
you are for the bail out?No, I think everyone should fall on their asses.
I thought the same thing about New Orleans too, however, I'm not really sure what the other options are. I haven't been keeping up with this whole bailout thing as much as I would like to.
Apparently the McCain of the future has traveled back in time and declared he won the debate. (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/2008/09/mccain_wins_debate.html)
comhcinc
09-26-2008, 06:17 PM
Apparently the McCain of the future has traveled back in time and declared he won the debate. (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/2008/09/mccain_wins_debate.html)
pretty interesting considering that he wasn't going to go to the debate.
secret-steve-crumbles
09-26-2008, 06:22 PM
Well, you guys can all relax with your bullshit "he's scared" crap (despite the fact that Obama wouldn't debate him 10 times, but who's counting that, right?) McCain has announced it's on (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13970.html). (link for everyone but tokenuser and gonzooo.)
pretty interesting considering that he wasn't going to go to the debate.
Yep. If there were doubts that his 'suspension' was purely political, McCain's preemptive win should erase those doubts.
Well, you guys can all relax with your bullshit "he's scared" crap (despite the fact that Obama wouldn't debate him 10 times, but who's counting that, right?) McCain has announced it's on (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13970.html). (link for everyone but tokenuser and gonzooo.)
I know.
Except McCain can't help. The deal was nearly done when McCain arrived and caused it to collapse. He's also heading to the debate even though the problem which he suspended his campaign to solve hasn't been solved. McCain's only accomplishment while his campaign was "suspended"(since it actually wasn't) has been to make things worse.
I am surprised you support the bailout given that it's socialism for the rich.
phatlip12
09-26-2008, 06:40 PM
I think the gloves are coming off tonight.
:D
masherscf
09-26-2008, 06:58 PM
Are you guys concerned that, while everyone is paying distracted by these guys trying to pre-spin the debate. This quiet fellows in Washington and New York have plans to spend 700 billion dollars of out money.
That's over $2,000 a person for every man, woman and child in your family. That's way more than this silly tax rebate. Ironically, they've decided to buy-off all this bad private debt by creating a massive public debt.
I see taxes going up, no matter who wins the election.
phatlip12
09-26-2008, 07:09 PM
I'm not a tin foil hat wearing Alex Jones follower but this is something I've been thinking about these past few days.
Do you think it's possible Bush may try to pull a Roosevelt and "temporarily cancel" the election in light of the economic disaster? Do you think he would try to do something like that?
Are you guys concerned that, while everyone is paying distracted by these guys trying to pre-spin the debate. This quiet fellows in Washington and New York have plans to spend 700 billion dollars of our money.
That's over $2,000 a person for every man, woman and child in your family. That's way more than this silly tax rebate. Ironically, they've decided to buy-off all this bad private debt by creating a massive public debt.
I see taxes going up, no matter who wins the election.
exactly
big time
also let us note that as with the iraq war the cost will most probably be even greater than the original demand
and taxes will go up no matter what whoever says or implies he would do
people are so easily distracted by the insignificant
the 'quiet' movers count on that
Are you guys concerned that, while everyone is paying distracted by these guys trying to pre-spin the debate. This quiet fellows in Washington and New York have plans to spend 700 billion dollars of out money.
That's over $2,000 a person for every man, woman and child in your family. That's way more than this silly tax rebate. Ironically, they've decided to buy-off all this bad private debt by creating a massive public debt.
I see taxes going up, no matter who wins the election.
I could see the bailout getting finished and approved while everyone is distracted by the debate, but I could also see it getting done this weekend when no one is paying much attention.
I'm not sure that taxes will go up, but if that's necessary to fix the economy, so be it.
I'm not a tin foil hat wearing Alex Jones follower but this is something I've been thinking about these past few days.
Do you think it's possible Bush may try to pull a Roosevelt and "temporarily cancel" the election in light of the economic disaster? Do you think he would try to do something like that?
I don't think it's terribly likely, but I suppose it's theoretically possible. I just don't think Bush would do it, because at this point I think he's sick of being President and would love to leave the public eye.
phatlip12
09-26-2008, 07:14 PM
I've been trying my best to follow all of this but admittedly there's a lot I don't understand.
How did this happen? Who is to blame? What do you think is ahead of us and how do you think we fix it?
I've been trying my best to follow all of this but admittedly there's a lot I don't understand.
How did this happen? Who is to blame? What do you think is ahead of us and how do you think we fix it?
i IMHO don't think it is fixable
certainly not with this bailout plan
we are going to see a lot of hard times for a lot of people
eventually after everything that is going to crash and burn actually does crash and burn the market will most likely fix itself
but no matter who is elected it is not going to be a bright new day
the root causes are complex deep and go back over a longer time than any of us have been alive
most likely it started with the federal reserve act of december 23 1913
and followed by the the abandonment of the gold standard in 1971
it is not some sudden unforeseeable crisis
I've been trying my best to follow all of this but admittedly there's a lot I don't understand.
I'm not an economic guru, but I think I'm starting to get somewhat of a grasp on it.
How did this happen?
The deregulation of the banking industry allowed investment backs to give out bad loans and short sell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short-selling) stocks which created a number of bubbles. Unfortunately for us, the housing bubble, the stock bubble, etc. all popped at the same time.
Who is to blame?
Wall St. and the GOP primarily.
If Wall St. had been more responsible, they wouldn't have sold the bad loans or sold stocks they didn't own, which would have resulted in less of a housing boom, but the market would have been more sustainable.
The GOP's responsible because they've constantly pushed for deregulation, and if the markets had been properly regulated, these bad deals could have never taken place and the crisis would have been avoided. President Bush specifically is responsible due to the ownership society (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ownership_society) which lead the banks to give loans to people who should have never gotten them. McCain is responsible in that he was one of the people pushing for deregulation(as he said, he is "fundamentally a deregulater.") Phil Gramm(McCain's former economic adviser) is also responsible for that same advocacy. Rick Davis(McCain's campaign manager) is responsible for lobbying for Freddy and Fannie. I suppose there's also an argument which can be made that Ronald Reagan bears some responsibility as it's largely his ideology("Government is the problem.") and policies(deregulation) which lead us into this mess.
Others who bear responsibility, are Alan Greenspan who like the GOP, refused to regulate the markets and the Clinton administration whose centrism lead them to embrace less regulation in their second term.
What do you think is ahead of us and how do you think we fix it?
I think that we could be looking at another Great Depression, and that if that's the case we'll need another New Deal-scale response. If not, we're looking at a smaller collapse and we should be able to get out of it with a smaller one. I think it's clear though that we've at the very least got a tough couple of years ahead of us.
Here's some links to people who know far more about the economy than I do talking about it:
Paul Krugman:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKMy8pf9qY8&eurl=http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/36144
Robert Reich: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpXZ6F4DAc0
bigshotprof
09-27-2008, 02:05 PM
i IMHO don't think it is fixable
certainly not with this bailout plan
we are going to see a lot of hard times for a lot of people
eventually after everything that is going to crash and burn actually does crash and burn the market will most likely fix itself
but no matter who is elected it is not going to be a bright new day
the root causes are complex deep and go back over a longer time than any of us have been alive
most likely it started with the federal reserve act of december 23 1913
and followed by the the abandonment of the gold standard in 1971
it is not some sudden unforeseeable crisis
I'm confused. The Federal Reserve Act? That seems like pretty random choice of legislation in the last century as related to securing debt. Why that particular act?
I'm confused. The Federal Reserve Act? That seems like pretty random choice of legislation in the last century as related to securing debt. Why that particular act?
the federal reserve act was the beginning of a credit based society
it put the monetary power into the hands of a few who decided who got credit thus taking control
the current crises is the natural evolution / devolution of this paradigm shift
and some believe it is not only inevitable but calculated so that a very small minority now controls the flow of money
'he who has the gold makes the rules'
Except it wasn't inevitable by any stretch of the imagination. Proper regulation could have easily prevented it.
comhcinc
09-28-2008, 04:15 PM
Except it wasn't inevitable by any stretch of the imagination. Proper regulation WOULD have easily prevented it.
fixed that for ya. :D
Thanks, it does work better that way and is equally true.
so after all is said
both mccain and obama are focusing on the financial crisis over their campaigns
which was my point: that instead of talking about what you would do if you do what is needed now in the position you are already in and were elected for
so just because it was mccain that thought of it first does not make me for him or against obama or for obama against mccain
but that is was the right thing to do imho
obama by his actions seems to now agree it was and is the right thing to do
in other words and annoying though it surely is i was right my point was valid and has been validated :p
Except Obama was putting the country first from the beginning. He understood that this crisis makes an open and honest debate more important than ever. McCain on the other hand put himself first and politicized the bailout. McCain's stunt made the situation worse. If he had done what Obama did, the bailout would have passed and the economic crisis would have already started to be addressed. Instead McCain caused the bailout to be delayed for at least a week.
Edit: Oh and McCain has run an ad attacking Obama for making the bailout pass even though it failed, showing that McCain's motivations were purely political.
ageexchick
10-01-2008, 08:26 PM
so after all is said
both mccain and obama are focusing on the financial crisis over their campaigns
which was my point: that instead of talking about what you would do if you do what is needed now in the position you are already in and were elected for
so just because it was mccain that thought of it first does not make me for him or against obama or for obama against mccain
but that is was the right thing to do imho
obama by his actions seems to now agree it was and is the right thing to do
in other words and annoying though it surely is i was right my point was valid and has been validated :p
IMHO -- It's not just the thought that counts. If McCain was going to suspend his campaign and suspend accepting donations to his campaign, don't you think he should have actually suspended them?
He may have had a good idea, but he didn't follow through on it. He and Obama did the same thing, except that Obama didn't mislead the public.