Political Ads

[samureye]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6reQLzgywzk

Not sure if we should have one thread or discuss ads individually. What do you thin of this?

[secret-steve-crumbles]

The problem that the US is in the midst of trying to fix is not capitalism's fault. It is the government.

[masherscf]

The problem that the US is in the midst of trying to fix is not capitalism's fault. It is the government.

...the Republican government...

[phatlip12]

I thought this one was funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ec3aC8ZJZTc

If Obama isn't ready to lead because he agrees with McCain on some things does that mean McCain also isn't? Isn't he indirectly attacking himself?

[masherscf]

If Obama isn't ready to lead because he agrees with McCain on some things does that mean McCain also isn't? Isn't he indirectly attacking himself?

Forget it Phatty, people don't understand arguments with more than one level. Apparently, McCain doesn't approve of people who agree with him.

You might as well argue that McCain qualifications for leadership are irrelevant because he's going to lead the country in the wrong direction.

[samureye]

I thought this one was funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ec3aC8ZJZTc

If Obama isn't ready to lead because he agrees with McCain on some things does that mean McCain also isn't? Isn't he indirectly attacking himself?
To me this exemplifies the republican party. Everything there was Obama destructing what McCain said. The ad is the lipstick on a pig comment all over again.

[secret-steve-crumbles]

...the Republican government...You're right. The Democrats have nothing to do with it at all. The Democrats NEVER pressured banks to give loans to people who couldn't afford it. Ever. It's always Republican's fault when something goes wrong. :rolleyes:

Damn, could you have any more bias view of the world?

[masherscf]

You're right. The Democrats have nothing to do with it at all. The Democrats NEVER pressured banks to give loans to people who couldn't afford it. Ever. It's always Republican's fault when something goes wrong. :rolleyes:

Damn, could you have any more bias view of the world?

Well, there you go again... Trying to dismiss someone's opinion by slapping a label on it. Of course I'm biased.

A Republican president controlled both the federal reserve, SEC and the treasury. The congress was controlled by Republicans for most of the last eight years and the Democrats in congress are, even now, kept completely in check by a non-veto proof majority.

If any blame falls on the government, at least some of it lands on those with conservative Republican ideas.

I doubt very much that loans were offered to people of marginal credit because at the behest of democratic congressman.

This was a perfect storm of aggressive loan marketing, over-competition for unworthy borrowers and short-sightedness on the part of people at every level.

[secret-steve-crumbles]

Well, there you go again... Trying to dismiss someone's opinion by slapping a label on it. Of course I'm biased.I wasn't dismissing your opinion at all. I was calling you out for having such a biased opinion. As you just admitted. You're the type of guy who blames Bush for everything.

"I can't afford my house! Damn you Bush!"

Stop following the leader and get a real opinion.

[masherscf]

I wasn't dismissing your opinion at all. I was calling you out for having such a biased opinion. As you just admitted. You're the type of guy who blames Bush for everything.

"I can't afford my house! Damn you Bush!"

Stop following the leader and get a real opinion.

Now your trying to dismiss my opinion because It's not mine?

Don't insult me dude, I have lots of my "own opinions." My opinions aren't fed to me by the news media or commercials because I think it's all bull shit. I think politicians are liars. I don't think that Obama is the second coming like some of these young ones. But, I think that the current brand of conservationism has failed. I would have voted for McCain in a heartbeat before he turned that way.

If anyone here is an intense ditto-head...it's not me.

[secret-steve-crumbles]

Now your trying to dismiss my opinion because It's not mine?

Don't insult me dude, I have lots of my "own opinions." My opinions aren't fed to me by the news media or commercials because I think it's all bull shit. I think politicians are liars. I don't think that Obama is the second coming like some of these young ones. But, I think that the current brand of conservationism has failed. I would have voted for McCain in a heartbeat before he turned that way.

If anyone here is an intense ditto-head...it's not me.When you make statements like: "REPUBLICANS" Government (emphasis yours) you are obviously so biased that you refused to accept that fault goes to both parties.

Conservatism failed? Are you kidding me? More like our "conservative" leaders stopped being conservative. Please explain to me how Bush has been conservative for it to fail. Seriously, the righties would love to sit back and listen to this one.

[masherscf]

Conservatism failed? Are you kidding me? More like our "conservative" leaders stopped being conservative. Please explain to me how Bush has been conservative for it to fail. Seriously, the righties would love to sit back and listen to this one.

Finally, we agree on something.


I think Bush and company lied about being conservatives and hijacked the legitimate conservative movement. Religious evangelism and libertarianism are not compatible. Global imperialism and libertarianism are not compatible either.

[skyz]

Please explain to me how Bush has been conservative for it to fail.

what difference does it make ?

bush is very very very shortly history

it is the future that counts

[secret-steve-crumbles]

what difference does it make ?

bush is very very very shortly history

it is the future that countsSomeone tell that to Obama.

[skyz]

I have lots of my "own opinions." My opinions aren't fed to me by the news media or commercials because I think it's all bull shit.

ditto to that

politics looks to me like some outrageously real (and expensive) tv show that just goes on and on and on

talking selling promising posturing blaming falsifying need i go on

with no deliverance in sight

imho

[skyz]

Someone tell that to Obama.

that's funny

obama is busy telling anyone who will listen that

obama is our future the object of fascination and unquestioning adoration

have you not gotten the memo

[esophagus]

On CNN last night they were talking about how the website for a newspaper (I THINK it was the Washington Post) was running ads saying "McCain Won the Debates" before the debates even happened, and before McCain had even announced he was going to go ahead and debate.

The McCain campaign said that it was an error on the newspapers part, but that still means the McCain camp had these ads ready while he didn't think he was running. If that isn't proof that McCain saying he wasn't going was a publicity stunt I'm not sure what is.

[masherscf]

The McCain campaign said that it was an error on the newspapers part, but that still means the McCain camp had these ads ready while he didn't think he was running. If that isn't proof that McCain saying he wasn't going was a publicity stunt I'm not sure what is.

You should take a page from Brian Brushwood. The simplest explanation is the true one. Sounds like just a mix-up.

[esophagus]

You should take a page from Brian Brushwood. The simplest explanation is the true one. Sounds like just a mix-up.
I know that the fact it got run is a mix-up. But why was it prepared in the first place is what I was thinking.

But I guess its not like these were just planned last week. He probably had the ad made up months ago. So yeah.

[guytheninja]

Finally, we agree on something.
I think Bush and company lied about being conservatives and hijacked the legitimate conservative movement. Religious evangelism and libertarianism are not compatible. Global imperialism and libertarianism are not compatible either.

Oh I'm in full agreement with the highlighted statement.

As for "Religious evangelism and libertarianism are not compatible" --- I think they are compatible. Why should they not be?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_Christianity

If you are a Christian, and you subscribe to the idea that humans have true free will, how would these positions be fundamentally incompatible?

[secret-steve-crumbles]

have you not gotten the memoMcCain handed the memo to Obama's face last night.

MCCAIN: The next president of the United States is not going to have to address the issue as to whether we went into Iraq or not. The next president of the United States is going to have to decide how we leave, when we leave, and what we leave behind. That's the decision of the next president of the United States.

So, I guess Obama finally knows Bush isn't running next year now. Maybe he'll quite talking about him. Although, that's pretty much his best bet. Keep on talking about a President with low ratings... Oh well, good luck Obama! (oh, and make sure you don't mention the democrats rating in the house!)

Now maybe your "chosen one" will talk about the future like you claim he does. For once. ...in his adult life.

[masherscf]

Oh I'm in full agreement with the highlighted statement.

As for "Religious evangelism and libertarianism are not compatible" --- I think they are compatible. Why should they not be?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_Christianity

If you are a Christian, and you subscribe to the idea that humans have true free will, how would these positions be fundamentally incompatible?

Notice, I didn't single out Christianity just religious evangelism. We use the term to refer to Christian recruiting. But, most religious sects practice some version of it. I find the idea of inserting yourself into someone's life in order to perform a conversion to be very odious.

I don't think there is any inconsistency between a libertarian political philosophy and a Christian one. That is, being a libertarian is not inconsistent with the teachings of Christ.

The free will thing is really just dogmatic. However, the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is one of the founding tenants of this nation. As well as the idea that governments derive their power from the consent of the governed, not from God. Most Christian churches operate on the notion of divine selection. My father entered the priesthood because he was called by God.


I do have a problem when people use religion to politically organize. I don't really care which religion does it. Communists don't like religion because they don't like the competition.

[guytheninja]

Notice, I didn't single out Christianity just religious evangelism. We use the term to refer to Christian recruiting. But, most religious sects practice some version of it. I find the idea of inserting yourself into someone's life in order to perform a conversion to be very odious.

I don't care for the word "religious" much at all. It's such a wide brush to paint such a large segment of humanity. But anyway.

I don't fully understand what you are trying to say here. I think you are trying to say that Christians should be non-adversarial in bringing people to Christ. I agree with this.


I don't think there is any inconsistency between a libertarian political philosophy and a Christian one. That is, being a libertarian is not inconsistent with the teachings of Christ.

Christians in western civilizations tend to lean towards the Enlightment's idea of individuality. The individual is more important than the collective. However, Christianity can go both ways. Many Chinese Christians are communists and they focus on the collective over the individual.


The free will thing is really just dogmatic. However, the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is one of the founding tenants of this nation. As well as the idea that governments derive their power from the consent of the governed, not from God. Most Christian churches operate on the notion of divine selection. My father entered the priesthood because he was called by God.


"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed"
http://www.ushistory.org/Declaration/document/index.htm

The government does indeed get its power from the people (the governed). However, in the Declaration of Independence, a "Creator" is mentioned. This God gives the people their unalienable rights --- which the government is created to protect. Without God (who is not named btw), the people have no inherent rights of any kind. We really are at the mercy of the government at that point, because the government IS the highest authority (cough China cough).


I do have a problem when people use religion to politically organize. I don't really care which religion does it. Communists don't like religion because they don't like the competition.

You will continue to be disappointed here. It is impossible for Theists to NOT involve their religion in political decisions. Why is this? Well, because as Dr. Keller argues, different worldviews contain different definitions of human flourishing.

The Veritas Forum: Belief in an Age of Skepticism? -- UC Berkley Discussion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9fmKSwuoDE

In this video, he uses an example -- divorce laws.(starts around 00:33) Traditional cultures (Christianity, Hinduism, Confucianism, Islam) will place the collective over the individual. People should stay married for the good of society. However, Western Enlightenment cultures place the individual over the community. People should not have to stay in bad marriages. Individual rights should come first.

I did mention that Christianity can be compatible with libertarianism. Well, in the case of divorce laws, it's not libertarian.