Legalize It?

[phatlip12]

I know this is something we discussed on and off in other threads, but I can't remember if we ever had an actual thread dedicated to the topic.

*No short term memory jokes please.*

Do you guys think Marijuana should be legalized? If so to what extent? Should anyone be allowed to get it or do you think it should be limited to those with a prescription?

I support the legalization of Marijuana as a recreational drug. It's not physically addictive and does almost no damage (possibily none at all) if used in the proper way. It makes no sense that alcohol and tobacco is legal yet Marijuana isn't. It should be sold to anyone of legal age (18) and people should be prohibited of driving while under the influence. Other than that I see no reason why it should be banned.

So what do you guys think?

*Another fun question*

Do you think you'll ever see the legalization (or decriminalization) of Marijuana in the United States in your life time?

I think so though I think it will happen several years from now.

[speed]

I think it should be legal and treated in a similar manner as alcohol (no one under 18 can purchase it, illegal to drive while using it, etc.).

I don't think we'll ever see it legalized in the United States (possibly in Canada, but even then, it's iffy) in my lifetime. The whole "reefer madness" stuff is just drilled so deep into the American peoples mind that I don't see candidates who support the legalization of pot gaining any support.

[guytheninja]

Don't do it!

If weed is legalized, I'll lose half of my music collection overnight :D.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMGCbgpIf3E

[esophagus]

Nope. If its legalized it'll be commercialized.

[ariastar]

We spend billions per year throwing people in jail for pot instead of legalizing and taxing it. You're correct that it's not physically addictive (nicotine destroys nerve receptors and "bridges" the broken pieces, and taking away the nicotine bridges is what makes it so hard to quit) and causes little to no damage, and there's evidence of it reversing certain cancers. Woman can kill unborn babies, we can all smoke cigarettes which for fact cause cancer, we can drink ourselves to death, yet can't legally smoke some weed.

I'm 100% for legalizing it. When it's legal to smoke cigarettes, it should be the same age for pot. Same restrictions as alcohol (no driving) as it does cause temporary impairment.

Legal or not, people will do it. Why fight it instead of trying to make tax money off of it?

[popltree2]

First off, I agree that it should be legalized. It has many medicinal benefits even though it does cause temporary impairment. I don't know if I buy the "People are going to do it anyway" argument though. People are going to do heroin, so why not legalize it? People are going to beat their significant others, so why not legalize it? The whole "People are going to do it anyway" argument doesn't fly with me. The only time that argument really works is if it actually prevents someone from doing something based off of the legal consequences of that action. Junkies don't stop doing drugs because it's against the law, they do it because they see their life is in the shitter and want to turn it around. Same goes with abusers. Abuse being against the law doesn't make the abuser say "I would smack the living shit outta you if'n it'wern again' the law." They will beat their significant others anyway.
Still though, legalize it, tax it, and get this economy back in shape. Same thing with prostitution. Legalize it, tax it, and get this economy back in shape.
Now...where did I put my car keys?

[ariastar]

If someone wants to do something to their own bodies, they should be allowed to, barring a mental condition that might impair their ability to make decisions. If someone wants to shoot heroin, while we all know it's stupid, it's their body. If someone wants to slit their tongue like a snake, let 'em. Beating someone else directly causes harm to another. That shouldn't be allowed without that person's consent (there are people into that sort of thing). Saying someone can't do with their own bodies as they wish when it comes to what they put on it is as stupid as gay sex being illegal in some states. Anyone who claims the whole "my body" thing and yet says that there should be restrictions on what we can do with our bodies needs to rethink what they believe. I can have an abortion because "it's my body," I can drink an entire bottle of vodka or smoke 20 packs of cigarettes because "it's my body," yet I can't smoke pot or shoot heroin (not that I would shoot heroin!!)?

So yeah, if people are going to do it to their own bodies, then it's stupid to throw people in jail for it. And it's stupid to say there are things we shouldn't be allowed to do with our own bodies.

[popltree2]

I agree that things that deal with one's own being should not be regulated by the government. I was simple saying that the argument that people are going to do things anyway wasn't a valid one because people are going to do ANYTHING and, if they really want to, John Law isn't going to deter that but that doesn't mean that ANYTHING should be legal. There are instances when I don't do things because of the law rather than a moral compass, ie speeding.

[esophagus]

If someone wants to do something to their own bodies, they should be allowed to, barring a mental condition that might impair their ability to make decisions. If someone wants to shoot heroin, while we all know it's stupid, it's their body. If someone wants to slit their tongue like a snake, let 'em. Beating someone else directly causes harm to another. That shouldn't be allowed without that person's consent (there are people into that sort of thing). Saying someone can't do with their own bodies as they wish when it comes to what they put on it is as stupid as gay sex being illegal in some states. Anyone who claims the whole "my body" thing and yet says that there should be restrictions on what we can do with our bodies needs to rethink what they believe. I can have an abortion because "it's my body," I can drink an entire bottle of vodka or smoke 20 packs of cigarettes because "it's my body," yet I can't smoke pot or shoot heroin (not that I would shoot heroin!!)?

So yeah, if people are going to do it to their own bodies, then it's stupid to throw people in jail for it. And it's stupid to say there are things we shouldn't be allowed to do with our own bodies. So I assume you are for the legalization of prostitution?

And what about people underage? Should there just be no age of consent/minimum age for drinking and smoking? Or do they not get to decide about "their own bodies"?

And prescriptions? I'm assuming all drugs should be over the counter since we can do what we'd like?

[ariastar]

I agree that things that deal with one's own being should not be regulated by the government. I was simple saying that the argument that people are going to do things anyway wasn't a valid one because people are going to do ANYTHING and, if they really want to, John Law isn't going to deter that but that doesn't mean that ANYTHING should be legal. There are instances when I don't do things because of the law rather than a moral compass, ie speeding.

If people are going to do things to themselves anyway, then it should be legal. :)

[ariastar]

So I assume you are for the legalization of prostitution?

Absolutely.


And what about people underage? Should there just be no age of consent/minimum age for drinking and smoking? Or do they not get to decide about "their own bodies"?

Minimum age. Minors don't exactly have the full gamut of rights as legal adults for a reason. Once they reach the age of majority, then they receive the same rights and complete body autonomy. (I do think the drinking age should be lowered or the military age and age of majority should be raised - having that one higher is stupid. The government trusts 18yo's with deadly weapons to make snap judgment calls in war, but they can't drink a beer.)

[quix]

I don't smoke it, but I agree that it should be legalized. We wouldn't have to waste resources attempting to get it off the streets, it's at the least no more harmful than alcohol, it's good for pain relief, and if it's legalized it could be regulated and made as safe as possible.

As for whether or not I'll ever see it, I think it's possible. It would almost certainly be after the Baby Boomers have died though given that we'll no longer be fighting the culture war of the 60s by proxy in our elections at that point.

[esophagus]

I edited in a third point while you were posting.Absolutely.Fair enough. Just checking.
Minimum age. Minors don't exactly have the full gamut of rights as legal adults for a reason. Once they reach the age of majority, then they receive the same rights and complete body autonomy. (I do think the drinking age should be lowered or the military age and age of majority should be raised - having that one higher is stupid. The government trusts 18yo's with deadly weapons to make snap judgment calls in war, but they can't drink a beer.)So there are thing minors can't be trusted to decide for themselves? Then why can you be trusted with everything? Becoming an adult does not give you perfect judgement. Especially not overnight. Minors have checks on them for a reason. Adults have checks on them for a reason too. Just less of them.

But Cody's speeding idea holds up. The same guy that goes out for a couple of drinks now is very likely to decide to just do a few lines of coke on the bar if its just right there in front of him.

[esophagus]

I don't smoke it, but I agree that it should be legalized. We wouldn't have to waste resources attempting to get it off the streets, it's at the least no more harmful than alcohol, it's good for pain relief, and if it's legalized it could be regulated and made as safe as possible.Or it will just be commercialized. McDonalds is not making the best cheeseburger possible, its just making one that you'll buy. Marlboro isn't making the most healthy cigarette possible, its just making one you'll buy. Store bought jionts will be pumped full of chemicals and additives. I say it'll become a lot more deadly if run anywhere outside of an anonymous basement.

I don't smoke it, but I don't see why it should get any worse for the people who do.

[quix]

Or it will just be commercialized. McDonalds is not making the best cheeseburger possible, its just making one that you'll buy. Marlboro isn't making the most healthy cigarette possible, its just making one you'll buy. Store bought jionts will be pumped full of chemicals and additives. I say it'll become a lot more deadly if run anywhere outside of an anonymous basement.

I don't smoke it, but I don't see why it should get any worse for the people who do.

That's a fair point. Of course, I suppose the counterpoint is that while you would see cheaper joints of lesser quality, you would also likely see higher quality joints for more money. I admit that there are certainly some issues with legalizing pot, though.

[masherscf]

I don't believe in prohibition. Marijuana is no more toxic than tobacco, which I also don't believe prohibiting. Marijuana leads to no more immoral behavior than booze. Teens have an easier time finding marijuana than booze, which is legal in every state. Cigarettes and beers are just as active as gateways to drugs addiction. Shit, you can get addicted to drugs by just taking a prescription. And, the illegal sale of marijuana supports criminal enterprises.

I'm not into smoking, it makes be hurl. I even if I was, I wouldn't do it because it is against the law. I don't condone breaking the law, whatever the reason.

But, I don't think responsible people should be stopped from using the drug for recreation or therapeutically if they can do so within the confines of law.

Marijuana is kept illegal by misguided morality, racism, as well as powerful drug and tobacco companies protecting their markets.

[secret-steve-crumbles]

This is one area I definitely go hardcore libertarian.

All drugs should be legalized. The war on drugs is the biggest waste of money and causes more needless death.

[comhcinc]

This is one area I definitely go hardcore libertarian.

All drugs should be legalized. The war on drugs is the biggest waste of money and causes more needless death.
i agree.

i do want to say this through. smoking pot is harmful to your lungs. inhaling smoke is harmful. i tend to agree with the hippy lets legalize crowd until they claim that smoking pot is harmless.

[guytheninja]

If someone wants to do something to their own bodies, they should be allowed to, barring a mental condition that might impair their ability to make decisions. If someone wants to shoot heroin, while we all know it's stupid, it's their body. If someone wants to slit their tongue like a snake, let 'em. Beating someone else directly causes harm to another. That shouldn't be allowed without that person's consent (there are people into that sort of thing). Saying someone can't do with their own bodies as they wish when it comes to what they put on it is as stupid as gay sex being illegal in some states. Anyone who claims the whole "my body" thing and yet says that there should be restrictions on what we can do with our bodies needs to rethink what they believe. I can have an abortion because "it's my body," I can drink an entire bottle of vodka or smoke 20 packs of cigarettes because "it's my body," yet I can't smoke pot or shoot heroin (not that I would shoot heroin!!)?


There is a reason why drugs are illegal. Have you ever worked in a factory? Would you be ok working with forklift drivers who were high on cocaine or LSD? You can't get a job working with heavy machinery without a drug test. Even if every drug were legalized, factories sure wouldn't change their hiring practices.

As for weed, I don't know enough about the long term effects to the brain. If it really is like smoking a cigarette, I don't see why it should not be legalized. But if it fundamentally damages and changes the brain (like Meth for instance), it should stay illegal.

[phatlip12]

i agree.

i do want to say this through. smoking pot is harmful to your lungs. inhaling smoke is harmful. i tend to agree with the hippy lets legalize crowd until they claim that smoking pot is harmless.

You can use a vaporizer or eat it which would eliminate that problem.

[phatlip12]

This is one area I definitely go hardcore libertarian.

All drugs should be legalized. The war on drugs is the biggest waste of money and causes more needless death.

I'm undecided on this. I think it has the potential of working and also the potential of being a complete disaster.

[masherscf]

I'm undecided on this. I think it has the potential of working and also the potential of being a complete disaster.

Walking out the door in the morning also has a potential for being a complete disaster.

[secret-steve-crumbles]

Walking out the door in the morning also has a potential for being a complete disaster.I never said anything about legalizing DUI. I said legalize drugs.

Your home, your body, your choice.

[heyseuss]

There is a reason why drugs are illegal. Have you ever worked in a factory? Would you be ok working with forklift drivers who were high on cocaine or LSD? You can't get a job working with heavy machinery without a drug test. Even if every drug were legalized, factories sure wouldn't change their hiring practices.

Do they test for alcohol, cigs, coffee or prescription drugs too ?

As for weed, I don't know enough about the long term effects to the brain. If it really is like smoking a cigarette, I don't see why it should not be legalized. But if it fundamentally damages and changes the brain (like Meth for instance), it should stay illegal.

Long term use does plenty of damage to the brain.... so does long term use of the other legal drugs I mentioned. Xanax and vicodin and a plethora of other legal drugs do more short and long term damage. Even though these things are legal, they appear in drug dealers inventory often enough.

Legalising pot won't commercialise it like cigs. People weren't manufacturing quality cigs and then suddenly having the quality cut in half by tobacco industry, once it became legal, same with booze. Pot farmers will make better livings, dispensaries can flourish, and it can all be regulated by the govt. The quality of medicinal pot is through the roof. Also, people can grow it themselves, harvest and ingest it themselves, that is the killer for the govt.

Amsterdam. The prostitutes and pot there are the best quality in the world, at the cheapest prices, with regulation and it's all legal.


And please stop saying 'it causes no damage' people, that's just silly.

[skyz]

if it were legal you could buy capsules or liquid concentrates just like other herbs at whole foods

i don't smoke (asthma so not anything ever)and i sing but so i wouldn't i could get into if i buy it from whole foods in concentrate like i buy chamomile

marijuana should be legal

it is not a greater evil than alcohol or cigarettes and maybe even not alcohol and cigarettes

plus it is a good crop it provides jobs

pays lots of taxes (i wonder how much time the taxes paid from a date of legalization would equal something like = 700 B)

it relieves the criminal system freeing $ and time and personnel to enforce

and hemp is a great product


it's stupid really twisted logic non productive stupid

but you know i think the whole political system / government / bureaucratic system seriously dangerously stupid

i don't think other drugs should be legal because the negative effects end up costing everyone

i have never seen someone get violent when smokes pot


i took mushrooms on new years 1999 - 2000

it was epicYou can use a vaporizer or eat it which would eliminate that problem.

[ariastar]

So there are thing minors can't be trusted to decide for themselves? Then why can you be trusted with everything? Becoming an adult does not give you perfect judgement. Especially not overnight. Minors have checks on them for a reason. Adults have checks on them for a reason too. Just less of them.

I agree that no one suddenly has perfect judgment overnight. However the alternative would be some sort of litmus test, and who could be trusted to set an appropriate bar? Some people exhibit excellent judgment much younger than 18 and some people never do. However an arbitrary age, while not a perfect solution, is better than a test administered by some section of the government, a government we all know does what it can to further its own agenda. Adults shouldn't be subject to "check" by other adults who think they know better. These "checks" are colored by the bias of those who make them.


And prescriptions? I'm assuming all drugs should be over the counter since we can do what we'd like?

I've thought about this. Part of me says yes, part of me says no. The part of me that says yes, prescriptions should be OTC, is the past of me that understands that not everyone is fortunate enough to be able to afford insurance to see a doctor, and prescriptions OTC would enable people to continue taking medications they need when they no longer have insurance. Right now we're having to order my mom's heart and blood pressure medication off the internet and hope for the best because, without a doctor to prescribe a refill, she's shit out of luck and has to hope that what she gets from India has the correct dose of the correct drug in it. Many people are in her place. But the part of me that says no is the part that is concerned that making prescriptions OTC would result in prices sky-rocketing and being out of the range of affordability anyway, whereas with being prescription, those who do have insurance can afford their prescriptions. Again, this also means those who have insurance can get it.

I think that, ideally, prescriptions should be OTC and insurance, for those that have it, should still cover it. Right now insurance doesn't cover anything you can buy without a script. Regardless one should have to be over the age of majority to buy medications with narcotics.

As for those who would abuse prescriptions and kill themselves, let them. Fuck, I think some of this "overpopulation problem" could be taken care of if we didn't try to regulate everything to keep the idiots from killing themselves off. May sound harsh to say, but if people want to drug themselves to death and are of fairly sound mind, let them, and I include all of my dumb-ass relatives who are druggies with this group. If they want to do that to their own bodies, fine. The smart people won't pop 10 Vicodin at a time and will either do their best to make an informed decision on their own or will still see a doctor (if they can) for guidance on what to take and how much.

[ariastar]

Store bought jionts will be pumped full of chemicals and additives. I say it'll become a lot more deadly if run anywhere outside of an anonymous basement.

Store-bought cigarettes have a ton of additives, but it's still legal for people to buy their own tobacco and make their own blends. If commercial joints were available, as long as it's not suddenly illegal to make your own joints, then there's no problem.

[ariastar]

There is a reason why drugs are illegal. Have you ever worked in a factory? Would you be ok working with forklift drivers who were high on cocaine or LSD? You can't get a job working with heavy machinery without a drug test. Even if every drug were legalized, factories sure wouldn't change their hiring practices.

You're not allowed to drink beer while operating machinery. Re-read what I've written here and you'll see I said there should be the same restrictions, such as not driving. This would extend to operating machinery you wouldn't operate while drunk.


As for weed, I don't know enough about the long term effects to the brain. If it really is like smoking a cigarette, I don't see why it should not be legalized. But if it fundamentally damages and changes the brain (like Meth for instance), it should stay illegal.

There are known health benefits to pot, but none whatsoever at all in the slightest bit for cigarettes.

[ariastar]

This is one area I definitely go hardcore libertarian.

All drugs should be legalized. The war on drugs is the biggest waste of money and causes more needless death.

Hell froze over. We agree again.

[ariastar]

I'm not into smoking, it makes be hurl. I even if I was, I wouldn't do it because it is against the law. I don't condone breaking the law, whatever the reason.

Rosa Parks broke the law by refusing to go to the back of the bus. The American colonials broke the law by not submitting to England. Great change often requires an act of disobedience.

[ariastar]

I'm undecided on this. I think it has the potential of working and also the potential of being a complete disaster.

The benefit of those who need medications having access to it outweighs the care I have for those who'd abuse it. We're keeping idiots who would abuse drugs alive and letting those who have a real need for them die. Why are we protecting would-be abusers and letting others die? I'd rather protect the woman needing her heart medication, let her stay alive, and let would-be abusers die. If there will be death on either side, without a doubt in my mind the ones who will abuse it can die. We're protecting idiots at the cost of people with valid medical conditions.

[ariastar]

Walking out the door in the morning also has a potential for being a complete disaster.

I never said anything about legalizing DUI. I said legalize drugs.

Your home, your body, your choice.

I think Mash meant, in reply to Phatty's concern that legalizing drugs could be a disaster, is that anything can be a disaster, but that doesn't mean we don't do it.

[ariastar]

Do they test for alcohol, cigs, coffee or prescription drugs too ?

This is a good point. No, they don't. Yet these things can impair judgment as much, if not more, in high enough quantities, as pot.


And please stop saying 'it causes no damage' people, that's just silly.

Just about everything causes damage in some way or another. But when that damage is below a certain threshold, it's typically said to just cause none. A salmon fillet is said to be harmless, but it can contain traces of mercury and what makes it not completely harmless, but harmless enough to ignore. Going to the mall puts us around chemicals "known to the state of California to cause cancer, birth defects, or other reproductive harm," yet the chance is slim enough that we say going to the mall is harmless. By comparison to everything else in this world, pot causes no damage.

[xibalba]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNbExvU42q4

[heyseuss]

This is a good point. No, they don't. Yet these things can impair judgment as much, if not more, in high enough quantities, as pot.

You don't need them to be in high quantities. A shot of espresso or a cig have a number of substantial, immediate, affects.

The oxycotin, vicodin, martini brunch, starbucks slurping idiot on the phone smoking a cig, is scarier to me, than the stoner cruising in the slow lane.


Just about everything causes damage in some way or another. But when that damage is below a certain threshold, it's typically said to just cause none. A salmon fillet is said to be harmless, but it can contain traces of mercury and what makes it not completely harmless, but harmless enough to ignore. Going to the mall puts us around chemicals "known to the state of California to cause cancer, birth defects, or other reproductive harm," yet the chance is slim enough that we say going to the mall is harmless.

Whew, lucky for me I don't eat salmon or go to malls.

By comparison to everything else in this world, pot causes no damage.


Last month I got shot in the stomach. I stuck my finger in the hole and found a bullet, the first thing I thought was, "well, compared to a nuclear bomb, this bullet causes no damage". :rolleyes:

I know what you're trying to say, but you take the movement back a few steps when you try to claim that it causes no damage, whether or not you are comparing it to cigs or alcohol. Long term pot use causes just as much damage as long term cig and alcohol use.

[esophagus]

Store-bought cigarettes have a ton of additives, but it's still legal for people to buy their own tobacco and make their own blends. If commercial joints were available, as long as it's not suddenly illegal to make your own joints, then there's no problem.But I'm guessing the percentage of people who do still buy their own tobacco and make their own blends is fairly low.

I do agree that the war on drugs is a waste of money. I think if their were laws put in place about the manufacturing of marijuana and the selling of it (specialty stores, no buying pot at the 7/11) I would change my stance. Ideally I think if it was legalized and we all just kept getting it out of Big Ted's basement it would be best.

[heyseuss]

I do agree that the war on drugs is a waste of money. I think if their were laws put in place about the manufacturing of marijuana and the selling of it (specialty stores, no buying pot at the 7/11) I would change my stance. Ideally I think if it was legalized and we all just kept getting it out of Big Ted's basement it would be best.

The people (surprisingly you Aria, with your insurance/OTC talk) in this thread don't seem to have acknowledged a reference to California legalisation. $125 for an i.d. card gets you legal visits to Big Teds. Of course, federal govt. doesn't recognise this, and does try to shut down Teds every now and then, but hardly a deterrent to the thriving medicinal marijuana bizness.

[ariastar]

But I'm guessing the percentage of people who do still buy their own tobacco and make their own blends is fairly low.

Doesn't matter if the percentage is low. They have the option.

[ariastar]

The people (surprisingly you Aria, with your insurance/OTC talk) in this thread don't seem to have acknowledged a reference to California legalisation. $125 for an i.d. card gets you legal visits to Big Teds. Of course, federal govt. doesn't recognise this, and does try to shut down Teds every now and then, but hardly a deterrent to the thriving medicinal marijuana bizness.

It's not to easy as just going and paying for a card. You've got to find a doctor who will write a "prescription" for pot for a medical reason. California does enforce the drug laws on people who smoke recreationally. It's really not that easy to find a doctor who will write a script for pot use, and can be expensive paying for doctor after doctor until you find one who will, and who will approve your condition.

[secret-steve-crumbles]

I think Mash meant, in reply to Phatty's concern that legalizing drugs could be a disaster, is that anything can be a disaster, but that doesn't mean we don't do it.Ah, you're right. I read what he meant wrong. I was thinking that was a really weird way of saying that. What you said he meant makes much more sense. :D

[ariastar]

Ah, you're right. I read what he meant wrong. I was thinking that was a really weird way of saying that. What you said he meant makes much more sense. :D

We're agreeing on stuff?



I'm scared!!

[heyseuss]

It's not to easy as just going and paying for a card. You've got to find a doctor who will write a "prescription" for pot for a medical reason. California does enforce the drug laws on people who smoke recreationally. It's really not that easy to find a doctor who will write a script for pot use, and can be expensive paying for doctor after doctor until you find one who will, and who will approve your condition.

I see you used " for prescription, because it's not a prescription. The doctor gives you a recommendation or approval, for any situation of when pot can provide relief to an existing condition, and you get an i.d. card that allows you to prescribe pot to yourself. It's extremely easy to get, and I could find you 50 doctors that hand out the i.d. card, by looking at one page of a newspaper. The 'farmacy' keeps track of your purchasing, and there's a limit, but it's a rediculously huge daily limit. If you want to get a card, you can call an org that will reccommend a doctor in your area.... so, no, it's VERY easy to find a doc.


California does enforce the drug laws on people who smoke recreationally.

$100 fine misdemeanour for less than an ounce. I find that crazy. An ounce is hell of alot for one person, that's about 3-4 weeks use for a stoner. And it cost more than the fine.

[guytheninja]

Do they test for alcohol, cigs, coffee or prescription drugs too ?

Long term use does plenty of damage to the brain.... so does long term use of the other legal drugs I mentioned. Xanax and vicodin and a plethora of other legal drugs do more short and long term damage. Even though these things are legal, they appear in drug dealers inventory often enough.

Legalising pot won't commercialise it like cigs. People weren't manufacturing quality cigs and then suddenly having the quality cut in half by tobacco industry, once it became legal, same with booze. Pot farmers will make better livings, dispensaries can flourish, and it can all be regulated by the govt. The quality of medicinal pot is through the roof. Also, people can grow it themselves, harvest and ingest it themselves, that is the killer for the govt.

Amsterdam. The prostitutes and pot there are the best quality in the world, at the cheapest prices, with regulation and it's all legal.

And please stop saying 'it causes no damage' people, that's just silly.

Caffeine and Nicotine have a rather mild psychoactive effect on the brain when taken in moderation.

Pot is not necessarily what I am going after here. If pot smoking really is like smoking a cigarette -- like abolishing prohibition, making weed legal may be the right thing to do. What I don't like is this attitude "Just make it all legal -- its your own body".

Well, if you have ever worked around heavy machinery and manufacturing equipment, someone's misjudgment can cause you to lose a finger, your hand, or your entire life. I'm not willing to work in a plant unless it does have a strict no-drug policy. Why? Because I value my life and the lives of others around me.

I'm not willing to work with people hopped up on hard-core drugs. Especially Meth -- you can't even go out hunting in the woods anymore with out being in danger of running across meth users and their meth lab. That stuff will turn you into a violent zombie.
http://www.stopmethaddiction.com/effects-of-meth.htm
http://www.jointogether.org/news/research/pressreleases/2007/meth-users-involved-in.html

As for Xanax and Vicodin (etc...), they are abused. My mother, who is a pharmacist, had to deal with drug-users and their fake doctor's prescriptions on a daily basis. She could just look at them with their glazed over eyes and know they were doped up on something. She finally got out of that work.

Also, you can't drink alcohol on the job either. You have to be sober during the work hours.

[ariastar]

I see you used " for prescription, because it's not a prescription. The doctor gives you a recommendation or approval, for any situation of when pot can provide relief to an existing condition, and you get an i.d. card that allows you to prescribe pot to yourself. It's extremely easy to get, and I could find you 50 doctors that hand out the i.d. card, by looking at one page of a newspaper. The 'farmacy' keeps track of your purchasing, and there's a limit, but it's a rediculously huge daily limit. If you want to get a card, you can call an org that will reccommend a doctor in your area.... so, no, it's VERY easy to find a doc.

The one friend of mine who managed to get a card didn't have an easy time.

This still doesn't get around how you have to have a condition a doctor thinks pot will help improve or alleviate the symptoms of. The government needs to butt the fuck out of this. If I, or anyone, want to grow pot for personal use, we shouldn't have to register or pay fees for what we want to grow for our own use.

[ariastar]

What I don't like is this attitude "Just make it all legal -- its your own body".

Well, that's what is it.


Well, if you have ever worked around heavy machinery and manufacturing equipment, someone's misjudgment can cause you to lose a finger, your hand, or your entire life. I'm not willing to work in a plant unless it does have a strict no-drug policy. Why? Because I value my life and the lives of others around me.

Which is why restrictions on time are reasonable. No doping when driving or operating machinery or any times you wouldn't be drunk. My off-time at home on a Saturday night is my own god damned time, and the fucking government is out of line telling me what I can not do with MY body.


As for Xanax and Vicodin (etc...), they are abused. My mother, who is a pharmacist, had to deal with drug-users and their fake doctor's prescriptions on a daily basis. She could just look at them with their glazed over eyes and know they were doped up on something. She finally got out of that work.

So let those drug-addicts kill themselves with their drugs of choice. They made the choice to start the drugs are are making the choice to continue instead of seeking help. Anything can be abused, legal or not. Caffeine pills can be bought by a five-year-old and abused. So if an adult wants to buy Vicodin or Xanax or Adderall, let them. If they kill themselves with it, that's one fewer in the population count and possibly one fewer person sucking in government resources.

[heyseuss]

Caffeine and Nicotine have a rather mild psychoactive effect on the brain when taken in moderation. Well, if you have ever worked around heavy machinery and manufacturing equipment, someone's misjudgment can cause you to lose a finger, your hand, or your entire life. I'm not willing to work in a plant unless it does have a strict no-drug policy. Why? Because I value my life and the lives of others around me.


Which is why I brought up what I said,.... for some reason you're just repeating yourself like I don't get the point. What you aren't getting, is my point. having 'drug' tests, doesn't mean shit, when the plant is serving coffee, allowing for cig breaks, and disregarding someones prescription drug habit, because it is legal.


The same can be said about testing for pot in sports.

[quix]

This is one area I definitely go hardcore libertarian.

All drugs should be legalized. The war on drugs is the biggest waste of money and causes more needless death.

:eek: I agree with you.

[logant]

If you make marijuana legal you have standards then. You have companies mass producing it and they have to adhere to certain regulations.

[comhcinc]

as a side note i thought "it" was sex and i was surpised to find it wasn't legal.

[masherscf]

as a side note i thought "it" was sex and i was surpised to find it wasn't legal.

That depends what what kind of sex...

[heyseuss]

The one friend of mine who managed to get a card didn't have an easy time.

Odd. I could get one right now and legally buy several pounds by tonight.

This still doesn't get around how you have to have a condition a doctor thinks pot will help improve or alleviate the symptoms of.

Haven't you had trouble with eating habits in the past? 9if you wanted one) Ever had anxiety, headaches or insomnia ? Ever had an injury ? Maybe your friends situation wasn't evident enough or your friend just went to the wrong people. I haven't even done research on the topic, and I know how extremely easy it is based on all the friends I know who are in the biz.

The government needs to butt the fuck out of this. If I, or anyone, want to grow pot for personal use, we shouldn't have to register or pay fees for what we want to grow for our own use.

I agree, and was unclear on the laws exactly, I thought there was a personal plant use limit, so I was looking up laws, and accidentally found a list of doctors in your area !:D Oh and the law is, any plant is a felony without license. Having a plant could land you 3 yrs in jail and a felony, but having an entire ounce is merely a $100 fine !?!?!? That's so weird.

[heyseuss]

If you make marijuana legal you have standards then. You have companies mass producing it and they have to adhere to certain regulations.

That's how it is now, although, maybe the consumption/production numbers would go up, there are regulations and standards in place now.

[rabidbadger]

drugs are bad, m'kay. (http://www.cracked.com/article_16640_7-classic-kids-tv-shows-clearly-conceived-on-bad-acid.html)
(not a south park link)

[phatlip12]

The benefit of those who need medications having access to it outweighs the care I have for those who'd abuse it. We're keeping idiots who would abuse drugs alive and letting those who have a real need for them die. Why are we protecting would-be abusers and letting others die? I'd rather protect the woman needing her heart medication, let her stay alive, and let would-be abusers die. If there will be death on either side, without a doubt in my mind the ones who will abuse it can die. We're protecting idiots at the cost of people with valid medical conditions.

I wasn't referring to heart medication. I was referring to drugs such as crack, heroin and meth.

[phatlip12]

I think Mash meant, in reply to Phatty's concern that legalizing drugs could be a disaster, is that anything can be a disaster, but that doesn't mean we don't do it.

No, you need to weigh out your pros and cons just like you do anything. Some would argue that going to war with Iran has benefits. You don't just jump into something and hope for the best. Especially if it's very well possible that it may cause a complete and devastating disaster.

Legalizing all drugs (again, I'm speaking of hardcore street drugs) may potentially bring good but it also may potential be bad. REALLY bad. You need to keep that in mind and not jump into anything because "something bad can always happen".

Know what I mean?

[phatlip12]

An ounce is hell of alot for one person, that's about 3-4 weeks use for a stoner. And it cost more than the fine.

Not if you're some of my friends.

:D

haha

[heyseuss]

Not if you're some of my friends.

:D

haha

One of your 'friends' huh . . . .;)

[chefespeff]

I'm for legalization and everything but one thing to think about is that it has the possibility of impairing driving ability, but we have no way of testing it on the fly like a breathalyzer. That's something we would probably want to figure out before legalization.

[heyseuss]

I'm for legalization and everything but one thing to think about is that it has the possibility of impairing driving ability, but we have no way of testing it on the fly like a breathalyzer. That's something we would probably want to figure out before legalization.

The country still hasn't figured out testing for alcohol with a breathaliser on the fly, yet.

[speed]

My only real argument against it is that when the person living in the unit across form you at an apartment is a heavy pot user, it really smells, and gives me a headache.

[masherscf]

My only real argument against it is that when the person living in the unit across form you at an apartment is a heavy pot user, it really smells, and gives me a headache.

Dude. I hear that. The rather rubinesque lady who lives in the townhouse adjoining ours likes to light up on hot summer nights. The fumes get sucked right into our upstairs bedroom.

[skyz]

Dude. I hear that. The rather rubinesque lady who lives in the townhouse adjoining ours likes to light up on hot summer nights. The fumes get sucked right into our upstairs bedroom.

and they try to cover the smell with incense which is pretty much a giveaway of what's happening anyway :p

[ariastar]

Odd. I could get one right now and legally buy several pounds by tonight.

Then do it.


Haven't you had trouble with eating habits in the past? 9if you wanted one) Ever had anxiety, headaches or insomnia ? Ever had an injury ? Maybe your friends situation wasn't evident enough or your friend just went to the wrong people. I haven't even done research on the topic, and I know how extremely easy it is based on all the friends I know who are in the biz.

She also has an eating disorder as well and anxiety, but, unlike me, she also has ADHD, and it was still tricky to get. Until you try to get a license, don't claim it's as easy as paying a bribe, I mean, paying a licensing fee.


Having a plant could land you 3 yrs in jail and a felony, but having an entire ounce is merely a $100 fine !?!?!? That's so weird.

Because that plant is capable of making more. An ounce of dried stuff would have to have some seeds.

[ariastar]

I wasn't referring to heart medication. I was referring to drugs such as crack, heroin and meth.

Legalizing all drugs (again, I'm speaking of hardcore street drugs) may potentially bring good but it also may potential be bad. REALLY bad. You need to keep that in mind and not jump into anything because "something bad can always happen".

If someone wants to shoot heroin or take meth, they'll eventually kill themselves. Yeah, death is "REALLY bad," but it's THEIR CHOICE. When we can't put into OUR OWN BODIES what we want, then we don't own even our own bodies. Someone else owns us.

We need to get rid of this god damned nanny government and let the stupid kill themselves off. If they want to, let them. They're doing it anyway, only they're costing us money arresting and jailing them for a few days, only to have them go right back to it when they're out a few days later. May as well legalize it and save ourselves some money.

[ariastar]

I'm for legalization and everything but one thing to think about is that it has the possibility of impairing driving ability, but we have no way of testing it on the fly like a breathalyzer. That's something we would probably want to figure out before legalization.

That's something that would need to be figured out, how to test for it. You know at airports how they have something they can swipe on the handles of suitcases that will tell them if there's residue on the handles (which gave cause, back when it was needed, to open up anything) that might indicate the presence of drugs inside? Took just a minute. So swap the hands and/or lips of someone suspected of being high while driving and find out in a minute if there's residue.

Know what you can take that's legal and can fuck with your mind? Ephedra. It can't really be sold anymore, but you can take if it you have it. That shit really screws with your head if you take enough. I know. I used to pop 18 of them a day. There's no test developed, nor will one be, because it's a-okay to take. Yet it's basically an herbal speed.

[ariastar]

My only real argument against it is that when the person living in the unit across form you at an apartment is a heavy pot user, it really smells, and gives me a headache.

Smoking is legal right now. Yet apartment complexes and landlords have the right to disallow smoking. Same could be done for pot.

[heyseuss]

Then do it.

I don't really need/want to these days. If the whole license card thing had happened 5 years ago, then I would have.


She also has an eating disorder as well and anxiety, but, unlike me, she also has ADHD, and it was still tricky to get. Until you try to get a license, don't claim it's as easy as paying a bribe, I mean, paying a licensing fee.

I haven't tried, becasue I don't want one, although, I know a buttload of ppl who went and got them first try, and I've had 2 people offer one to me. Regardless of that, there are pages and pages of ads for them in papers around here, and I'd assume the med marijuana biz is just as prevalent in your town. Check a sanfran weekly or whatever.

Because that plant is capable of making more. An ounce of dried stuff would have to have some seeds.

Not sure what you mean. From what you've said, I can't see why having a plant in your yard is a felony, when having an ounce on you is a misdemeanour. What were you trying to say ?

In direct reference to what you said, what if the plant is a seedling?, and, no an ounce doesn't HAVE to have seeds in it, not all weed has seeds in it.

[heyseuss]

That's something that would need to be figured out, how to test for it. You know at airports how they have something they can swipe on the handles of suitcases that will tell them if there's residue on the handles (which gave cause, back when it was needed, to open up anything) that might indicate the presence of drugs inside?

That swabbing was for explosives. But good idea though, any on the spot testing would be a good idea, rather than the bullshit way it is set up now.


I accidentally flew from chicago to l.a. with half a joint in my pocket once. Well, the joint part was the accident, the flying from chicago to l.a. part was intentional... but damn I was shocked to find a loose roach in my pocket, when I got home.

[ariastar]

drugs are bad, m'kay. (http://www.cracked.com/article_16640_7-classic-kids-tv-shows-clearly-conceived-on-bad-acid.html)
(not a south park link)

The Wuzzles..."They got originality, living with a split-personality..."

See, if it weren't for drugs, we wouldn't have all this fun shit!

Oh, and the #1 show on there needs a seizure warning. I felt my brain begin to buzz and had to look away and blink rapidly a few times to get back to normal.

[ariastar]

That swabbing was for explosives. But good idea though, any on the spot testing would be a good idea, rather than the bullshit way it is set up now.


I accidentally flew from chicago to l.a. with half a joint in my pocket once. Well, the joint part was the accident, the flying from chicago to l.a. part was intentional... but damn I was shocked to find a loose roach in my pocket, when I got home.

They told me once it was for drugs (I had a few really thick books in my carry-on back in, oh, 1999 or so. Whatever. They can still come up with something for drugs.

[heyseuss]

They told me once it was for drugs (I had a few really thick books in my carry-on back in, oh, 1999 or so. Whatever. They can still come up with something for drugs.

Litmus paper that you spit onto... something/anything would be a good idea and better than how it's done now.


Interestingly, Heather Locklear got arrested just now for driving under the influence of prescription medication. That sucks. "Medication" shouldn't be something that gets you arrested. The system fails.

[rabidbadger]

I heard they pulled her over for driving erotically. Like she has a choice. THAT shouldn't be a crime either. Oh, wait what?


Nevermind /littella

[heyseuss]

heard they pulled her over for driving erotically. Like she has a choice.

I never had a thing for her until I saw her in my lawyers office and realised she was as tall as my stomach and as wide as my fist.

THAT shouldn't be a crime either. Oh, wait what?

Aren't you glad you've gotten away with it all these years.

[rabidbadger]

Aren't you glad you've gotten away with it all these years.

I don't drive erotically, I park erotically. :p

[guytheninja]

I don't drive erotically, I park erotically. :p

What does this sentence have to do with weed badger? And what does it even mean?:confused::D

[rabidbadger]

sorry just a little in joke.

But I been meaning to weigh in on this topic anyway. so...

Yeah. Legalize with (minor) provisions. I was a moderate toker in my late teens/early twenties. I rarely bought, and never sold. I just happened to be around a bunch of generous hippykids. haha.

I'm gonna stick with pot here, don't wanna drag harder drugs into it, cause I never did them (mushrooms twice). But Yeah. Weed has good and bad aspects, like cigs and booze do. The thing with pot though, is that it's not physically addictive, like nicotine and alcohol. So I consider it a lesser drug than both of those. And if those are legal, so should be weed.

[yssman]

Just to let people know...

We've got a proposition up for vote here in Michigan to legalize medical marijuana, which I believe gives a lot of people the ability to posses a certain amount (already on the books in Ann Arbor), and to grow some legally as well.

I don't have all the specifics, but nevertheless, I'll likely be voting in favor of it.

[phatlip12]

Because that plant is capable of making more. An ounce of dried stuff would have to have some seeds.

A plant is also an indication that you have intent to sell.

[phatlip12]

If someone wants to shoot heroin or take meth, they'll eventually kill themselves. Yeah, death is "REALLY bad," but it's THEIR CHOICE. When we can't put into OUR OWN BODIES what we want, then we don't own even our own bodies. Someone else owns us.

We need to get rid of this god damned nanny government and let the stupid kill themselves off. If they want to, let them. They're doing it anyway, only they're costing us money arresting and jailing them for a few days, only to have them go right back to it when they're out a few days later. May as well legalize it and save ourselves some money.

This I understand. What you need to realize though is a person addicted to something such as heroin or meth hardly ever effects that sole individual. Drug addicts are someones child, a brother or a mother to a baby girl.

What if legalizing causes an increase in users? That means you'll have more junkies running around. Junkies going up to people like you AND me with a gun so they can buy more.

I understand the benefits as do you so I'm not going to go over them. I'm just saying this has the potential of working well or being a disaster.

[quix]

I think you're right that meth and equally hard drugs should remain illegal given how corrosive they are to families and society as a whole.

[esophagus]

I really don't see how legalizing meth has the potential of benefiting anyone but people who would be selling meth.

[quix]

The only argument I can see is that it would help lessen government expenditures, but that's not worth the damage legalizing meth would do.

[mier]

legalize it and tax the crap out of it just like cigarettes and liquor. Then there will be a reason for super separate areas or non-smoking in public. I know I wouldn't want any form of secondary high.

[sir_scutter]

Do you guys think Marijuana should be legalized?

In a free country, the individual should be able to make decisions for themselves no matter how much someone else may disagree as long as it doesn't harm anyone else or damage someone else's property.

In a free country, there will be no national restriction of cannabis, or anything. The individual would make their choices weather or not to consume dangerous substances such as alcohol (or non-dangerous substances such as cannabis). They would choose for themselves and also make the rules for their own property. In my house, I don't want any of that crap, but I won't stop you from enjoying it in yours.

That's not to mention how many problems would disappear in America if drugs were re-legalized.

[esophagus]

I asked this earlier when someone else made the argument. What good could possibly come of legalizing something like meth?

[phatlip12]

I asked this earlier when someone else made the argument. What good could possibly come of legalizing something like meth?

It depends on how it's implemented. Again, this goes back to my argument of it may work or it may be a disaster.

I'm not saying I believe this- it's only a thought.

Lets assume the government legalizes all drugs and immediately stops all funding for the war on drugs. What if the government then puts that money into providing the drugs to those addicted to them? Addicts could get them for free (from the government).

Advantages:

*The government could regulate what they're giving the people. I know this sounds a little crazy but they could provide a less dangerous crack or heroin.

*Addicts could get it for free which would mean they wouldn't have to rob/kill people and such so they have money to buy the drug. Also, if the addict isn't spending all the money on the drug perhaps he/she could use it to turn his life around. Crime rate lowers.

*Treatment and rehab offered to the addicts.

*Takes the drugs out of the hands of gangs. Crime rate lowers.

*Less people in prison.

[esophagus]

The government feeding drug addictions? Ha. Right wing capitalists would have a field day with that. Even I'm having a field day with that one.

[phatlip12]

The government feeding drug addictions? Ha. Right wing capitalists would have a field day with that. Even I'm having a field day with that one.

Like I said its just a thought. What do you think? Do you think it would work? Why or why not?

[esophagus]

In your scenario, you aren't making drugs legal. You're making it legal for the government to sell the drugs. People who don't want to follow government limitations and regulations, or give into treatment and rehab, are simply going to keep buying drugs from shady drug dealers. Now we're spending the money we were spending on getting rid of drugs on giving out more drugs and the problem hasn't been solved. Thats the problem with this. These people are already doing something thats illegal and killing them. Theres not much you can do thats going to stop them from sinking low to get it.

[phatlip12]

In your scenario, you aren't making drugs legal. You're making it legal for the government to sell the drugs. People who don't want to follow government limitations and regulations, or give into treatment and rehab, are simply going to keep buying drugs from shady drug dealers. Now we're spending the money we were spending on getting rid of drugs on giving out more drugs and the problem hasn't been solved. Thats the problem with this. These people are already doing something thats illegal and killing them. Theres not much you can do thats going to stop them from sinking low to get it.

What if treatment is optional?

Good point with the limitations and regulations though. Still, I think it would drastically decrease the number of "shady drug dealers" and crime.

[esophagus]

Other problems (off the top of my head):

- The government can't afford to give these drugs away. They can't afford to give anything away. They could find a few extra hundred billion dollars in the budget tomorrow and giving away crack would not be used for any of it. Even if (by some miracle) politicians decided that was an apt use for SOME of the money, I can guarantee the number of drug addicts would skyrocket if you could get it for free.

- As mentioned before, the number of addicts goes up. As someone pointed out in the thread one addict effects a lot of people. Just plain bad for morale. Suicide rates go up, divorce rates go up, number of children given up goes up. You see where I'm going.

- The government producing a weaker drug means addicts want more of it. Or simply wanting better drugs. This is where going back to your dealer comes in. Also, its incentive for the illegal dealers to have better product. More chemicals, more deadly, more addictive, generally all that means a better high.

- Not to mention, I just plain don't see the crime rate going down as much as you do.

[secret-steve-crumbles]

Other problems (off the top of my head):

- The government can't afford to give these drugs away. They can't afford to give anything away.Relax, by then there would be government run health care. Remember, according to a Democrat, it's free! Free!

[guytheninja]

I think you're right that meth and equally hard drugs should remain illegal given how corrosive they are to families and society as a whole.

... And because drugs like this fundamentally change the brain of the user.

To assess brain perfusion deficits in crystal methamphetamine abusers, we used SPECT to scan 21 crystal methamphetamine abusers with psychotic symptoms. Scans were read by qualified neuroradiologists who were blind to the diagnoses. Length of crystal methamphetamine abuse ranged from 3 months to 10 years. No patients' charts showed a history of psychotic diagnosis or symptoms before the use of crystal methamphetamine. Sixteen of the 21 (76%) crystal methamphetamine abusers had focal perfusion deficits distributed in the frontal, parietal, and temporal lobes. A similar cerebral perfusion profile has been described for those who exhibit violent or aggressive behavior.
http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/156/4/662

This is why hardcore drugs (like meth) need to stay illegal. They damage the brain to the point where, even when you get off the drug, you can still have mental illnesses.

http://www.hanfordsentinel.com/articles/2007/09/25/news/doc46f94efc05559931543307.txt
Here is another example of permanent damage from meth use.

[quix]

... And because drugs like this fundamentally change the brain of the user.


http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/156/4/662

This is why hardcore drugs (like meth) need to stay illegal. They damage the brain to the point where, even when you get off the drug, you can still have mental illnesses.

http://www.hanfordsentinel.com/articles/2007/09/25/news/doc46f94efc05559931543307.txt
Here is another example of permanent damage from meth use.


Right, but judging by the discourse, I don't think that most people here care about the effect it has on the bodies of its users. :p

[speed]

Relax, by then there would be government run health care. Remember, according to a Democrat, it's free! Free!

Free? No. However, the US gov't spends more per person on health care than the Canadian gov't. That, I find a little interesting.

[esophagus]

Right, but judging by the discourse, I don't think that most people here care about the effect it has on the bodies of its users. :pYeah. That would definitely be the BIG point of my argument. But apparently no one cares.

[masherscf]

Yeah. That would definitely be the BIG point of my argument. But apparently no one cares.

Hello, you know what really unhealthy for you... eating!

[rabidbadger]

If you eat chinese toys.

No, but seriously, this thread started with weed, moved to alcahol/cigs, and on to coke heroin and meth.

I have NO desire for coke, meth, horse, to be legal. Just weed. But, I do want those harder drugs to be dealt with better by our government. Not by punishment of users, and minor dealers dealing so they can use it. They need addiction intervention. Not prison time where they just learn better how to get it from their prison mates. That is an endless loop.

Government SHOULD go after medium/big dealers who destroy lives for money, especially the ones who bring it into the country.

[sir_scutter]

Is there seriously a discussion right now about the war on drugs? How can ANYONE support the war on drugs? Prohibition failed before, people! Re-legalize all drugs and you have it enter the normal marketplace where businesses can do the following (although not limited to only these):


compete (low prices, better quality)
regulate

AND MOST OF ALL!!!!!:

end the senseless arrests of innocent people who never hurt others


But it seems that the WAR ON DRUGS is more like a WAR ON CANNABIS because that seems to be the big one that is easiest to detect, and the least harmful which is more attractive to people who want to alter their consciousness (something the people of a free nation should be able to do freely (without harming others))

[phatlip12]

Is there seriously a discussion right now about the war on drugs? How can ANYONE support the war on drugs? Prohibition failed before, people! Re-legalize all drugs and you have it enter the normal marketplace where businesses can do the following (although not limited to only these):
compete (low prices, better quality)
regulateAND MOST OF ALL!!!!!:
end the senseless arrests of innocent people who never hurt othersBut it seems that the WAR ON DRUGS is more like a WAR ON CANNABIS because that seems to be the big one that is easiest to detect, and the least harmful which is more attractive to people who want to alter their consciousness (something the people of a free nation should be able to do freely (without harming others))

Did you read the entire thread? Mostly everyone agrees that Marijuana should be legalized. I brought up the scenario of the government legalizing all drugs (not something I believe in- just a thought) and Esophagus brought up some great arguments to counter the idea. I encourage you to take the time to read over the thread in it's entirety and respond to some of Esophagus's arguments on the matter.

[rabidbadger]

I think scutter was just casting a vote. Agreeing with us on the basic concept. Scutter been gone for a while, at least on the threads we visit, so I welcome his "yay" vote!

(but yeah, He should read the whole thread, so he can joint, er, join in later.)

[sir_scutter]

I admit I did not read the entire thread, and I don't recall my exact reasons for responding with that post... but I might have been wondering why this is even in question at all? Is there anyone who would disagree with ditching the war on drugs on this?

I'm actually glad that so many people have logic when concerning non-violent crimes becoming non-criminal and I can only attribute that to the current old-folks being indoctrinated and lied to (or evil people propagating and enforcing bad laws). While this isn't news, I'm just pointing out the fact that my optimism calls for the complete and certain re-legalization of everything consensual (mind-altering substances, prostitution, religion, etc... even though I'm not to take part in most of those) once this generation gets to be the majority.

Either way, next time I'll try to be more careful about posting something in a thread so large before reading. Heh. Heh. Heh. :rolleyes: