What is usenet?

[lumbeechief]

Im totally lost on this matter, I understand torrents and whatnot but what is usenet where can I go to use it etc....

[mier]

There's the name of something you don't hear often. It's a network of servers that shuffle messages back and forth to each other except it's sorta like forums. You have groups on the server for different subjects and you can send messages on whatever topic is being discussed. I'd hit up wikipedia for a better explanation than what I'm giving.

[davmoo]

The short answer: Its a big honking networked bulletin board system.

The long answer: Go read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet

And its now a pale shadow of what it once was. When AOL users and the like got access, the Stupidity Factor increased by several orders of magnitude. Each month now when my EasyNews (http://www.easynews.com/) bill comes due, I wonder how much longer I'll see it as worth paying for.

[tokenuser]

Usenet? The worlds single largest source of porn.

In all seriousness, it predates the browser based internet that you are familiar with, and is the great granddaddy of bulletin boards, forums, and file sharing systems, but I agree with Davmoo.

The minute the "AOL keyword" crowd started getting out of their sandbox, the quality of Usenet went downhill fast.

[maxhdrm]

The short answer: Its a big honking networked bulletin board system.

The long answer: Go read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet

And its now a pale shadow of what it once was. When AOL users and the like got access, the Stupidity Factor increased by several orders of magnitude. Each month now when my EasyNews (http://www.easynews.com/) bill comes due, I wonder how much longer I'll see it as worth paying for.
Well at least your answer was more informative then tokenusers typical redneck jock answers. Get a grip.

While Usenet might predate the larger scale internet that we have come to know the actual origins of the Internet are much older then Usenet. The first INTER-connected computers and email utilizing TCP/IP protocols was started by ARPA in 1962 and became the first computer network called ARPANET by the end of 1969. Wiki isn't always the best source. http://www.columbia.edu/~hauben/CS/arpanet-encyc.txt

Usenet didn't come on the scene until 1985 and the primary use back then was a means for people to file share or forward URL links that pointed to the files. While AOL has surely cluttered a noble tool, it has actually been the past historical ease of detection of piracy that swayed users over to bit torrent.

The now tougher laws or RIAA/MPAA rampages on Torrent users and the ease of detection through P2P have actually made it tougher to track Usenet groups. The reverse has happened and Usenet groups are once more starting to grow. I question whether it is worth subscription fees though. Some but not all Torrent sites (Mininova.org) have a link to a Usenet group as an option to direct P2P download. That same link can get you registed if you like.

[masherscf]

The Usenet is sort of like opt-in email spam.

Usenet servers store and distribute messages not unlike email. You can use a news reader client to subscribe to particular stream of messages. You tap the a news server periodically which tracks down the new messages for you. When they programmed a way to encode and attach binary files to email messages as text, it was natural to attach them to Usenet messages the same way. Because the messages propagate quickly through a world wide network. It's impossible to remove a file from the Usenet once it's out there. It was thought that the limited size of the messages would keep people from sharing copyrighted media. But, geek cleverness prevailed. Programs exists to take binary files, encode them as text and break them up into hundreds or thousands of bite-size files and send them of to the Usenet. The same program can usually reassemble the parts at their destination. So, Usenet is an easy one-stop shop for movies, porn, warez, or whatever. And, since it works like email, it can be done so anonymously through spoofing return addresses. Also, I could be wrong, but Usenet traffic is near indistinguishable from normal email at a glace. However, the messages are not encrypted. So, it would be easy for your ISP to figure out what your were downloading of they were watching you. However, I don't think that clients downloading particular messages are stored in one particular location. So, you're probably fairly safe from attracting RIAA attention.

The only trouble is that the files go stale pretty fast. If you miss one part out of thousands you're SOL.

You can find media on the Usenet for all sorts of dark and nasty fetishes...even some pretty despicable and illegal ones.

[maxhdrm]

The Usenet is sort of like opt-in email spam.

Usenet servers store and distribute messages not unlike email. You can use a news reader client to subscribe to particular stream of messages. You tap the a news server periodically which tracks down the new messages for you. When they programmed a way to encode and attach binary files to email messages as text, it was natural to attach them to Usenet messages the same way. Because the messages propagate quickly through a world wide network. It's impossible to remove a file from the Usenet once it's out there. It was thought that the limited size of the messages would keep people from sharing copyrighted media. But, geek cleverness prevailed. Programs exists to take binary files, encode them as text and break them up into hundreds or thousands of bite-size files and send them of to the Usenet. The same program can usually reassemble the parts at their destination. So, Usenet is an easy one-stop shop for movies, porn, warez, or whatever. And, since it works like email, it can be done so anonymously through spoofing return addresses. Also, I could be wrong, but Usenet traffic is near indistinguishable from normal email at a glace. However, the messages are not encrypted. So, it would be easy for your ISP to figure out what your were downloading of they were watching you. However, I don't think that clients downloading particular messages are stored in one particular location. So, you're probably fairly safe from attracting RIAA attention.

The only trouble is that the files go stale pretty fast. If you miss one part out of thousands you're SOL.

You can find media on the Usenet for all sorts of dark and nasty fetishes...even some pretty despicable and illegal ones.
Now that is information to digest. I like your style. I didn't want to go into too much detail and scare the person but I concur especially that deep packet inspection doesn't work on Usenets and it is the very fact of no central location for those files which has made it now much more difficult for those agencies and much more attractive for user. Just another reason why I say you can never stop piracy and the RIAA is simply delusional.

[masherscf]

Now that is information to digest. I like your style. I didn't want to go into too much detail and scare the person but I concur that deep packet inspection doesn't work on Usenets. Just another reason why I say you can never stop piracy and the RIAA is simply delusional.

Well, Usenet messages are sent in plain-text. The ISP can just look at the header to see what it is. The point is, it wouldn't trip any automatic detection looking for media files. Nevertheless, there's no central record for downloads for the RIAA to tap. They would have to obtain and sift through the download records of thousands of news servers to do so. Plus, since most clients download Usenet messages automatically...like email, they can't prove you downloaded anything willingly. It would be like suing you because someone sent you an MP3 via email.

[ohhoe]

Well at least your answer was more informative then tokenusers typical redneck jock answers. Get a grip.


So I guess since I use usenet for porn and downloading movies, I'm a big redneck jock too??

HELLLL YEAHHHHHH *smashes can on forehead*

[tokenuser]

Well at least your answer was more informative then tokenusers typical redneck jock answers. Get a grip.Well, at least my answer was factually correct.
While Usenet might predate the larger scale internet that we have come to know the actual origins of the Internet are much older then Usenet. The first INTER-connected computers and email utilizing TCP/IP protocols was started by ARPA in 1962 and became the first computer network called ARPANET by the end of 1969. Wiki isn't always the best source. http://www.columbia.edu/~hauben/CS/arpanet-encyc.txtTrue, but immaterial to the question being asked. You have laid out the history of the backbone that was used for USENET but not what USENET itself was.
Usenet didn't come on the scene until 1985 and the primary use back then was a means for people to file share or forward URL links that pointed to the files.Usenet was developed in 1980, out of a graduate research project by two Duke University students, and expanded to include UNC Chapel Hill. Its purpose was NOT to pass files and URLs back and forth, but to exchange text files - news - via newsgroups. Using UUCP (unix to unix copying protocol) it allowed the creation of a distributed file server system that replicated files and had no central point of failure.

With the shift away from UUCP as the heart of transfer protocols in the online world of the time, moving to the more resilient TCP/IP (using UDP or TCP), many of the underlying protocols needed to be changed. USENETs reliance on UUCP was one of them, and that required the creation of a new protocol NNTP. NNTP was ratified in 1986 via an RFC, and has been in use as the transfer protocol of USENET ever since ... but USENET itself was actually in existance 6 years earlier (which in internet time is an eternity).

The now tougher laws or RIAA/MPAA rampages on Torrent users and the ease of detection through P2P have actually made it tougher to track Usenet groups. The reverse has happened and Usenet groups are once more starting to grow. I question whether it is worth subscription fees though. Some but not all Torrent sites (Mininova.org) have a link to a Usenet group as an option to direct P2P download. That same link can get you registed if you like.The a.b newgroups have always proliferated with porn. Porn images were some of the earliest binary file types converted to text streams for transmission, and at one point were estimated to comprise over 90% of the binary file groups.

So, typical redneck jock answer? Yes, I guess so ... because USENET was developed in the south, and (for binary files) was predominantly filled with porn, that pushed the envelope for encoding and text compression techniques to save space in a plain text file.

Take with that what you will.

Personally, I had been using USENET since 1988. Yes, porn was a distraction, but it was also a great resource for finding answers to obscure programming problems. Asking a quesiton in an appropriate newsgroup at 3am at night, and you would have 5 - GOOD - answers when you got up the next morning. My ISP recently dropped support for Usenet servers, and their usefulness has faded over time. If the text based Q&A are what you need, then Google Groups now controls and maintains the Usenet archive - if yo are after binaries, then you will need to find a service either via a college, ISP, or a for pay service like Giganews.

[davmoo]

While Usenet might predate the larger scale internet that we have come to know the actual origins of the Internet are much older then Usenet.

True, but the "browser based internet", which is what he refers to, did not come on the scene until the very early 90s.

Usenet didn't come on the scene until 1985 and the primary use back then was a means for people to file share or forward URL links that pointed to the files.

URLs did not exist when Usenet first came online. In the beginning, it was simply used to exchange text messages...pretty much like this forum here. I'm not trying to brag or get in to a "mine is bigger than yours" contest, but I know this because I was using Usenet right from the beginning. In fact, sitting here thinking about it, I remember discussing a project I was working on at UK with some dudes at MIT via Usenet in 1983, so I know for a fact it was earlier than 1985.

Oh, and if you're willing to weed through the crap, you can still find damned good porn on Usenet :D

[tokenuser]

Oh, and if you're willing to weed through the crap, you can still find damned good porn on Usenet :DYou redneck jock :)

a.b.n... FTW.

[masherscf]

True, but the "browser based internet", which is what he refers to, did not come on the scene until the very early 90s.
:D

Dude, In September 1993, there I was in the IRIX lab and the guy next to me fired up Mosaic and I was a convert.

[tokenuser]

Dude, In September 1993, there I was in the IRIX lab and the guy next to me fired up Mosaic and I was a convert.I had a similar experience when my GF (now wife) mailed me a floppy with a copy of Mosaic on it (she was a grad student on foreign exchange to a US university) and told me to fire it up. I might still have that disc around here somewhere ...

[masherscf]

I had a similar experience when my GF (now wife) mailed me a floppy with a copy of Mosaic on it (she was a grad student on foreign exchange to a US university) and told me to fire it up. I might still have that disc around here somewhere ...

That's funny. I met Sabrina in 1993 the same IRIX lab. She sat down next to me and I started a conversation. I should have been more careful.

[davmoo]

You redneck jock :)

And damned proud of it :)

[fishtoprecords]

Usenet didn't come on the scene until 1985 and the primary use back then was a means for people to file share or forward URL links that pointed to the files
Not so much. Usenet started using uucp, not TCP/IP. uucp was designed for periodic dial-up usage, well before they let undergraduates use the Internet/Apranet's TCP/IP

Its not a "server" that contains stuff, its a collection of servers that agree to share "feeds" which can be read and written to.

In addition to huge amounts of spam and porn, it also contains huge amounts of cracked binaries of commercial software.

[computoman]

tcpip is a protocol to manage the way data is sent in packets for the whole raw data stream. Even with tcpip it takes addtional software for doing file transfer. I remember on being dialup and most everything was just an ascii dump with no real control how the data was sent except for xon/xoff Uucp, Kermit, xmodem, and the like were the first real attempts to packetize data for file transfer, but they did not manage the whole data stream. . Correct me if I am wrong.

[fishtoprecords]

tcpip is a protocol to manage the way data is sent in packets for the whole raw data stream. Even with tcpip it takes addtional software for doing file transfer. I remember on being dialup and most everything was just an ascii dump with no real control how the data was sent except for xon/xoff Uucp, Kermit, xmodem, and the like were the first real attempts to packetize data for file transfer, but they did not manage the whole data stream.

Your view is roughly correct, but not technically correct.

TCP/IP is not a protocol. HTTP is a protocol that works over TCP/IP

uucp was the basis for usenet, but it really didn't predate TCP/IP. It did become widely available years before TCP/IP became commercially available. One of the first commercial ISP was uunet. Where do you think the "uu" at the start of their name came from?

It was not until about 1992 that commercial usage on the Internet was allowed. You could use TCP/IP internally, and some large companies did, but the Internet was restricted to "research" by its original sponsor: DARPA/ARPA.
You had to be a research place, which meant most universities, places like MITRE, SRA, and vendors that worked closely with researchers, like DEC, IBM, etc.

Kermit, xmodem, etc. were used for PC to "mainframe" communications. But that was because no one could use TCP/IP to their homes until the ISPs were allowed on the Internet.

The Kermit folks knew all about TCP/IP.

Whether the Xmodem, Ymodem and Zmodem folks did, I don't know. A lot of the PC communications folks ( BBS, etc.) were pretty insular.

[tokenuser]

The Kermit folks knew all about TCP/IP.

Whether the Xmodem, Ymodem and Zmodem folks did, I don't know. A lot of the PC communications folks ( BBS, etc.) were pretty insular.The X/Y/Z folks knew :)

There were some large ISP networks out there, working on the same store and forward principle of the original USENET services. FidoNet was one of the largest. I had a private node on GT.net - a much smaller network, but with global reach and fast *ahem* gateways *cough* (they weren't strictly legal) into the USENET backbone.

The BBS scene was amazing and very personal. The GT sysops downunder would get together for BBQs periodically. It was a friendly community and lots of fun to belong to.

[fishtoprecords]

FidoNet was one of the largest.

I tried to get into fidonet, but came in too late. I was at the Computer Freedom and Privacy conference, probably 1992, and one of (or the) founders of fidonet got an award for being a great leader of communications and freedom. It was the first I'd heard of it.

But as I got into the feeds (or whatever fidonet called them) the content was nearly all about the politics of who could run this or that Fidonet region. So I lost interest and focused on the cypherpunks list