View Full Version : Secretary of State.
rabidbadger
11-14-2008, 09:38 PM
Is Hillary really right for this? A, I don't wanna lose her as my Senator, and B, she's always been more a domestic firebrand. I really want the post to go to Richardson. If it's a "thank you" thing for Obama, Richardson brought in the Hispanic vote that helped him in FL and NV and elsewhere.
But I still think these positions should go to the best person for the job. And Richardson is my choice.
tokenuser
11-14-2008, 09:56 PM
Is it wrong to have someone that has a domestic focus being SecState?
It means that in any meetings that person will have the interests of the USA as top priority. Not a bad thing IMHO.
Plus, she has had a lot of exposure to the role, and has a great coach to lean on, who as a former POTUS is cleared for all intelligence briefings, and is still active in the international community.
I can honestly see Clinton being this century's Madeleine Albright (OK Albright is technically this century's Albright since she was SecState until Jan 2001), but thats another resource to draw on as well.
Richardson deserves at seat at the big kids table. I'd also like ot see John Edwards get Attourney General - regardless of known past indiscretions.
rabidbadger
11-14-2008, 10:02 PM
I'm guessing any SecState would get most of the briefings that a president would get. But you are right about taking domestic agenda worldwide, but Richardson can do that too, and has much more experience actually dealing with the nitty gritty of international relations.
And yes. Albright is/was awesome.
tokenuser
11-14-2008, 10:13 PM
I'm guessing any SecState would get most of the briefings that a president would get. Yeah, but what I am saying is that Bill is cleared and still gets the briefings (its a privilage that comes with the position apparently), so Hill can talk work if need be. Thats a very unique position, and an invaluable resource to bounce ideas off.
rabidbadger
11-14-2008, 10:18 PM
ahh, that is a plus on her side, Mr. Richardson can't do that with Mrs. Richardson, even if just to pull his thoughts together. Hmmm.
Another "plus" about Hillary is, if she's in the admin, she is less likely to run against Obama in 2012.
Is Hillary really right for this? A, I don't wanna lose her as my Senator, and B, she's always been more a domestic firebrand. I really want the post to go to Richardson. If it's a "thank you" thing for Obama, Richardson brought in the Hispanic vote that helped him in FL and NV and elsewhere.
But I still think these positions should go to the best person for the job. And Richardson is my choice.
hillary is far and away the best choice
she is the gold standard she is stunningly appropriate
she certainly deserves obama's respect once she lost the nomination she put herself behind him and the domocratic party
if obama gives this position as 'thank you' he is not as smart as he is being given credit for
Yeah, but what I am saying is that Bill is cleared and still gets the briefings (its a privilege that comes with the position apparently), so Hill can talk work if need be. That's a very unique position, and an invaluable resource to bounce ideas off.
exactly it is sort of a baby with the bath water situation
in the interests of trivializing hillary and bill's competence and importance you do a disservice to the country and the world
bigshotprof
11-15-2008, 04:22 PM
Dick Lugar,Republican. Strong on foreign policy and good reach across the aisle.
tokenuser
11-15-2008, 04:45 PM
exactly it is sort of a baby with the bath water situation
in the interests of trivializing hillary and bill's competence and importance you do a disservice to the country and the worldIf thats what you think I said, do a search on my posts. I have said Hilary would be an ideal SecState for many months - and its a position that she would be an asset filling.
Nothing trivial about that. I didn't think her interests were broad enough for President, but that does not mean that she is not ideal for a job that is as focused as SecState.
speed
11-15-2008, 05:27 PM
exactly it is sort of a baby with the bath water situation
in the interests of trivializing hillary and bill's competence and importance you do a disservice to the country and the world
I don't see how it's trivializing anything. He made a very valid point. Hillary would do an excellent job as Secretary of State and having a husband (who was a great President) with clearance to view security briefings would be a valuable asset that we should not overlook. While I never supported Hillary in her run for the Presidency (she would have done a great job, I just felt that Obama or Kucinich could have done a better job), I never understood why the argument "with Bill, we'd have co-Presidents" was valid. How is having two smart people working together in a position (one completely unpaid :p) a bad thing?
tokenuser
11-15-2008, 05:48 PM
Not entirely true (the "free" bit). Bill Clinton receives an annual pension (until he is 80) that is the equivalent of a Cabinet Secretary salary. That is currently $191,300.00/year. For all intents and purposes, he is a retired government employee.
Somewhat ironically, at that rate, and given Obama's age, if he goes 2 terms, he will receive an additional $5M in pension payments, while if McCain had gotten elected, he wouldn't have qualified because he would have been over 80 when he left office :)
As an interesting aside, I heard that Bill is qualifed to hold the position of a Supreme Court Judge. Its happened before President Taft served as a Supreme Court Justice after his presidency. Interesting to think about.
If thats what you think I said, do a search on my posts. I have said Hilary would be an ideal SecState for many months - and its a position that she would be an asset filling.
Nothing trivial about that. I didn't think her interests were broad enough for President, but that does not mean that she is not ideal for a job that is as focused as SecState.
i know that i did not mean you
i was referring to those people who think hillary and bill should go off into the sunset
and especially those who have strong antipathy toward them most particularly hillary
she he and they are a valuable resource
As an interesting aside, I heard that Bill is qualifed to hold the position of a Supreme Court Judge. Its happened before President Taft served as a Supreme Court Justice after his presidency. Interesting to think about.
i could see it
bill is smart he was a rhodes scholar at 21 but hillary is brilliant
bill has said she is the most brilliant
phatlip12
11-16-2008, 06:01 AM
Bill Ayers
*In before the neo-cons*
HAHA!
speed
11-17-2008, 06:49 AM
Bill Ayers
*In before the neo-cons*
HAHA!
They haven't gone back to Bin Ladin yet?
tokenuser
11-17-2008, 01:37 PM
They haven't gone back to Bin Ladin yet?Bin Laden would make a much better SecDef. The nature of modern warfare has shifted again. Much like it did in the Revolutionary War, to WWI, to Korea/Vietnam - there were paradigm shifts. "Desert Storm 2.0: The War on Terror" changes the playing field again ... and leadership needs to reflect that.
rabidbadger
11-17-2008, 07:13 PM
Hmmm. Radio show suggested Ms. Clinton would be a good attorney general. Not a bad idea. So far she is my second choice for AG after Patrick Fitzgerald. Though I haven't really thought who else might be good. Lot of damage to reverse there, no doubt.
(no need to start a new thread for every position, so let's make this the Cabinet speculation thread, in general.)
tokenuser
11-17-2008, 07:27 PM
Hmmm. Radio show suggested Ms. Clinton would be a good attorney general. Not a bad idea. So far she is my second choice for AG after Patrick Fitzgerald. Though I haven't really thought who else might be good. Lot of damage to reverse there, no doubt.
(no need to start a new thread for every position, so let's make this the Cabinet speculation thread, in general.)I know he is damaged goods, but I still think John Edward would be an exceptional AG - being able to talk to dead people would be awesome ("Mr Jefferson, what did you mean by the line 'All men are created equal'?")
rabidbadger
11-17-2008, 07:50 PM
yeah, but too new. Not gonna happen. Or if it does I'd be shocked.
phatlip12
11-17-2008, 08:53 PM
John Edwards is a scumbag. I don't trust him.
tokenuser
11-17-2008, 09:00 PM
John Edwards is a scumbag. I don't trust him.Huh? The talking with the dead thing is a little odd (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Edward), but thats something even the most conservative Christians should be able to cope with.
xibalba
11-17-2008, 09:04 PM
John Edwards is a scumbag. I don't trust him.
So is he a scumbag because he had an affair? Like Bill Clinton with multiple women?
phatlip12
11-17-2008, 09:19 PM
So is he a scumbag because he had an affair? Like Bill Clinton with multiple women?
Cheating is bad no matter what, but doing so when your wife is dying is pretty damn low.
phatlip12
11-17-2008, 09:21 PM
Huh? The talking with the dead thing is a little odd (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Edward), but thats something even the most conservative Christians should be able to cope with.
Haha.
http://andrewchatham.com/pics/john_edwards.jpg
tokenuser
11-17-2008, 09:32 PM
Follow my last link. John Edward.
Eitherway, the forgiveness of that personal transgression is not your decision, its his wife's.
This is one of those personal choice issues that people seem to get up in arms over.
He chose to have an affair, his wife chose to forgive him.
By your disapproval of this personal issue, is it any better or worse than someone chosing to support abortion, gay rights, or the death penalty??
If cheating is morally wrong, why has there not been a state legislative amendment raised to ban it? Is cheating on a girlfriend a misdemeanor, while cheating on a spouse a crime? Is cheating on a terminally ill spouse better or worse than cheating on one that is healthy?
Provided that the AG does not need to determine a case where the fidelity of marriage is questioned ... does it really matter? There is no conflict of interest.
phatlip12
11-17-2008, 09:38 PM
Follow my last link. John Edward.
Eitherway, the forgiveness of that personal transgression is not your decision, its his wife's.
This is one of those personal choice issues that people seem to get up in arms over.
He chose to have an affair, his wife chose to forgive him.
By your disapproval of this personal issue, is it any better or worse than someone chosing to support abortion, gay rights, or the death penalty??
If cheating is morally wrong, why has there not been a state legislative amendment raised to ban it? Is cheating on a girlfriend a misdemeanor, while cheating on a spouse a crime? Is cheating on a terminally ill spouse better or worse than cheating on one that is healthy?
Provided that the AG does not need to determine a case where the fidelity of marriage is questioned ... does it really matter? There is no conflict of interest.
Yeah, I got the joke with the other John Edwards. Thats why I posted the pic. ;)
As far as cheating concerns, I have problems with him doing that. All because it happened in his personal life and he was forgiven doesn't make him exempt. What if he was in the Klan in his personal life before being a politician? Should we look over that because it was personal?
If the closets person to him, his wife, obviously can't trust him why should I?
tokenuser
11-17-2008, 09:51 PM
As far as cheating concerns, I have problems with him doing that. All because it happened in his personal life and he was forgiven doesn't make him exempt. What if he was in the Klan in his personal life before being a politician? Should we look over that because it was personal?Interesting point ... and I am sure that there have been more than one congressman or senator with a Klan membership, and not the same thing as having an affair.
Taking the Klan membership example to the extreme, should anyone with a AAA membership also be banned because they belong to an organisaiton that promotes the use of automobiles - and that couls lead to collusion with auto makers and gas companies? Yo can take any example in an absurd direction if you want to.
Klan membership has the actions of one person potentially affectng many, same as abortion, gay rights, and death penalty laws.
kowgod
11-17-2008, 09:54 PM
My "other" is Anyonebuthillary McGee.
phatlip12
11-17-2008, 09:59 PM
Interesting point ... and I am sure that there have been more than one congressman or senator with a Klan membership, and not the same thing as having an affair.
Taking the Klan membership example to the extreme, should anyone with a AAA membership also be banned because they belong to an organisaiton that promotes the use of automobiles - and that couls lead to collusion with auto makers and gas companies? Yo can take any example in an absurd direction if you want to.
Klan membership has the actions of one person potentially affectng many, same as abortion, gay rights, and death penalty laws.
Yes, but it's not a long shot saying the Klan hurts people. Making the argument that AAA hurts people is pretty difficult. Directly causing harm and association with people who associates with those who associate with those that cause harm (brain explodes) is different. ;)
You make a good point about the Klan affecting many though. It's easier to get an apology from one person than it is an entire race.
Cheating is bad no matter what, but doing so when your wife is dying is pretty damn low.
phatty i agree with you i abhor cheating
but there is a young idealistic view and a real world view
(that is why i am not married i cling to the ideal)
when people have been married a long time and been through a lot like having and losing children to think that an affair is of equal weight or greater weight than that long term epic story is not really valid
and though it seems especially heinous to cheat on a terminally ill spouse think of the man who has to deal with the probable lose of his life long partner
he is suffering too and cannot lay his burden on his wife
so he may out of despair end up weak and seeking comfort in the arms of someone else in order to deal with his own pain
besides it is not for us to judge
if cheating were a reason to keep someone out of public office there would be a lot of people out of a position and a lot of positions vacant
phatlip12
11-18-2008, 02:52 AM
I try my best to judge people by their character. Cheating on your dying wife is definitely going to be a negative in the character department. If I have any say in it (which I don't), I'd like to see other people in Obama's cabinet with the same character I believe he has.
But to each his own. :)
esophagus
11-18-2008, 03:16 AM
If Bill Clinton was given a position in cabinet would that upset you? I'm not asking to poke a hole in your argument, I totally see your point.
phatlip12
11-18-2008, 03:22 AM
If Bill Clinton was given a position in cabinet would that upset you? I'm not asking to poke a hole in your argument, I totally see your point.
Not really which is weird. I think its because the incident with John Edwards is just so new. That (and I know this doesn't make much since) but I think him cheating on his dying wife is worse than Clintion cheating. Cheating is bad no matter what, but cheating on your dying wife is like inserting the knife, twisting it and sprinkling salt on the wound.
Clinton was punished as a political figure (impeachment). I don't believe Edwards should get off so easy. I guess thats what it is.
I know it doesn't make much sense, but that's how I feel.
comhcinc
11-18-2008, 03:29 AM
Cheating is bad no matter what, but cheating on your dying wife is like inserting the knife, twisting it and sprinkling salt on the wound.
that is of course if he was cheating and it wasn't just some kinky threesome?
to me it just really isn't any of my business. i am not a fan of cheaters either.
many great leaders have had nasty personal lives. as has been said clinton cheated. so did reagan. and jefferison. and kennedy. and kennedy. and kennedy. and ginrich. and mccain. and jackson. and maybe palin. the list goes on and on.
i am not sure one's personal life defines one's public life. i don't think it should.
truthful this is where the media oversteps it's bounds.
tokenuser
11-18-2008, 02:43 PM
By the amount of background work they are doing, especially with the foundations and business ties of post-presidential Bill (http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/17/clinton.cabinet/index.html), it looks like Hillary is the primary contender for the job.
I don't care where Bill is getting the money from for his foundation. Both he and GHWB have been doing a lot of things (together as well as seperately) that their former postitions have opened doors too. Especially the funding of AIDS research in Africa ... without the strings attached US Government Quasi Religious stance of needing to stop supplying condoms and preaching abstinence as the only way to stop transmission of AIDS. How well is that working in US schools? Its easy to see that its not working in Africa either.
BTW - Lumping Africa together in this instance is not fair. It is a large continent with a varied population with differing social and economic problems from country to country.
rabidbadger
11-21-2008, 08:46 PM
Well, looks like Clinton is a done deal. But Richardson got Commerce.
Hmmm, I wonder who my new senator will be?
tokenuser
11-21-2008, 08:57 PM
Well, looks like Clinton is a done deal. But Richardson got Commerce.
Hmmm, I wonder who my new senator will be?What is the difference between Commerce and Treasury?
Hillary will make an outstanding SecState ... and will be 5th in line of succession for the throne.
rabidbadger
11-21-2008, 09:32 PM
What is the difference between Commerce and Treasury? Good question, I'll research that a bit.
Hillary will make an outstanding SecState ... and will be 5th in line of succession for the throne.
She will be fine. And I didn't realize secstate was fifth. Who's fourth? Al Haig? ;)
speed
11-21-2008, 09:41 PM
Not really which is weird. I think its because the incident with John Edwards is just so new. That (and I know this doesn't make much since) but I think him cheating on his dying wife is worse than Clintion cheating. Cheating is bad no matter what, but cheating on your dying wife is like inserting the knife, twisting it and sprinkling salt on the wound.
Clinton was punished as a political figure (impeachment). I don't believe Edwards should get off so easy. I guess thats what it is.
Clinton was punished for lying, not for cheating. Big difference. Also, Edwards cheated after his wifes cancer was in remission. Not much better, but not cheating on a dying wife at least.
Really, it's none of my business. It's between him and his wife, and she was willing to forgive him. Also, he gets bonus points for not forcing his wife to stand (or sit) beside him while he admitted his affair. Making your wife stand beside you (as Bill, Spitzer and others) have done is just a dick move.
Edit: SecState is 4th Tresury is 5th
tokenuser
11-22-2008, 08:24 AM
Edit: SecState is 4th Tresury is 5thPoor wording on my part ... SecState is the fifth highest position in the government.
bigshotprof
11-23-2008, 12:56 AM
What is the difference between Commerce and Treasury?
Hillary will make an outstanding SecState ... and will be 5th in line of succession for the throne.
Treasury is the water, commerce is the plumbing.
alaskalonewolf
12-08-2008, 05:01 PM
Probably the most important though.
Clinton should have got President, i think we will all regret who was put in office come Jan, 20th
alaskalonewolf
12-23-2008, 10:50 PM
Condolezza Rice has been doing a decent job, considering the idiot factory she has been dealing with forever.
rabidbadger
12-23-2008, 11:01 PM
Clinton should have got President, i think we will all regret who was put in office come Jan, 20th
You keep saying stuff like that, but you never say why. I'm listening...
alaskalonewolf
12-23-2008, 11:16 PM
What makes you think Clinton is going to satisfy the needs
of the nation when Clinton couldn't even take care of business
in the bedroom. I say weak in little, weak in much. Besides,
I'd pick Connie Rice before I'd pick Clinton's Bosnian-sniper-dodging
quasi-menopausal ass.
Think about it. If Obama is such a badass, then why not?
He could train ninja attack monkeys with laser-guided bananas.
It's still better than the sh!tstorm he's gonna walk into with her.
Connie's good. She's a team player. She's smart. She's level-headed.
She knows how to be diplomatic even while working for a douche.
She does her job without having to dodge sniper fire. She is
nice to animals. She has a stable adult relationship and doesn't
have her dirty laundry drug out into the press. She doesn't need
to be brought up to speed. How about a transistion team where we
incorporate people who were already actually doing a decent job for real
significant a periods of time, until they prove that someone else will be better.
FVck man, I know that Obama has a stack of resume' that has more Ph.D, MBA
M.S., and other TLA people wanting to work for him than the
entire population of Iceland.
If Connie screws the pooch or gets to be a hassle, I'm sure she realizes
that in this economy getting a job will be a bitch, even after negotiating with the
leaders of foreign countries. Especially considering the "last employer" line
of any employment application. Why do you think Hillary is so hot to
trot and worried about a lay-off? Look around. Obama is the only
one that's hiring. She only wanted to be President because she thought
she could be the first lady and the first queen of the United States in
the same century. She would've avoided global warming though, I'll give
her that, cause with her anywhere near the oval office we'd have a
nuclear fvcking winter.
rabidbadger
12-23-2008, 11:22 PM
Dude, don't shoot yer wad before saturday night! ;)
alaskalonewolf
12-23-2008, 11:25 PM
Sorry dude. But I got plenty more where that came from...
been on a statistical analysis of that bitch all day. Lemme
tell ya' all the numbers I've ran say that she'll end us tut suite'
if we let her move her sh!t back into the White House. Nothing
worse than a woman scorned and all that. This bitch needs to
have her head examined... I dugg up some footage that would
make you lose your mind. There are whole WEBSITES with masses
of relatively intelligent, non-crazy, professionals, educated people
who articulate the arguments in such ways, as to give you nightmares.
phatlip12
12-24-2008, 09:18 AM
Clinton should have got President, i think we will all regret who was put in office come Jan, 20th
Really? We'll regret he was put in office on inauguration day still before he really does anything as president? Hmm...
Clinton should have got President, i think we will all regret who was put in office come Jan, 20th
that may very well be we don't know how obama will do (talking thinking and doing are not the same thing especially when the doing requires cooperation from congress)
great ides are not so easy to actualize
but he is what we have and i am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and let him prove himself
i have often wished it were possible to compare what bush did to what gore would have done
tokenuser
12-24-2008, 01:43 PM
Really? We'll regret he was put in office on inauguration day still before he really does anything as president? Hmm...Even before inauguration, he is acting more like a president than Bush. His cabinet is pretty much in place, so he will his the ground running.
alaskalonewolf
12-24-2008, 02:38 PM
I think he's gonna' do the best job. In a world of "firsts"
I think he is well aware of what this will mean to all the
future generations of Presidents. What you could do,
rather than harsh on his process, or pre-judge him prior
to actually stepping behind the helm, is to pray...
...one good tip: Don't pray for yourself.
If you're an atheist (http://atheism.about.com/od/christmasholidayseason/p/AtheistsXmas.htm), then I would suggest spending your
time studying the statistical data from history which may
predict a successful period of the "American experience"
and to share the results in an open forum where President
elect Obama (http://www.barackobama.com) might see it. I am guessing that he'll be
a man who will listen to those he governs.
BTW, an algorithm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algorithm) isn't a dancing contest starring Al Gore (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Gore).