View Full Version : New Comics Discussion for 12/04/2008 is up way too fucking early
conorkilpatrick
12-04-2008, 04:32 PM
Tell us what you thought of the books of the week!
Here's what Josh (http://www.ifanboy.com/users/Josh/comics), Ron (http://www.ifanboy.com/users/Ron/comics), Conor (http://www.ifanboy.com/users/Conor/comics), and Gordon (http://www.ifanboy.com/users/Gordon/comics) are reading.
This week's Pick of the Week:
http://www.ifanboy.com/comics/marvel_comics/x-men_noir/1_(of_4)/cover-medium.jpg
From here on out, it's SPOILER-O-RAMA.
Don't forget to rate and review the books over at iFanboy.com (http://www.ifanboy.com/comics)!
georgexjr
12-04-2008, 10:24 PM
"dark Illuminati"
doom
hood
loki(with huge boobs)
namor
emma frost...i dropped all my x-books with the exception of wolverine and astonishing..
did she turn orrrrrrrrr.....like what did i miss?
fill me in.
My shop didn't even get Secret Invasion today. Something got messed up with the shipping. The guys at my store were so pissed because THE BIGGEST BOOK OF THE WEEK did not get put on their shelves for today.
My goal in life: To read all my books from last week and this week.
My surprise of the week: an issue of Mouse Guard actually came out.
I know I shouldn't buy it because its so late and I should just get the trade, but I saw the art and...well...it made me weak.
paper
12-04-2008, 11:41 PM
JSA #21
"Did you just punch a lightning bolt?"
"Yes."
Best comic book ever.
labor_days
12-04-2008, 11:50 PM
Batman was awesome. SI was sorta....
crippler
12-05-2008, 12:16 AM
My shop didn't even get Secret Invasion today. Something got messed up with the shipping. The guys at my store were so pissed because THE BIGGEST BOOK OF THE WEEK did not get put on their shelves for today.
My goal in life: To read all my books from last week and this week.
Save yourself the worry. The book carries very little punch. Just know that Dark Reign looks promising.
crippler
12-05-2008, 12:17 AM
Batman was awesome.
Batman was INTENSELY awesome. It allows Final Crisis to transcend the mundane yearly event and become something truly memorable.
six-gun
12-05-2008, 12:17 AM
did she turn orrrrrrrrr.....like what did i miss?
fill me in.
It's supposed to be a bumb bumb bumb bumb! Moment, she's been good, but now we find out that she's been bad all along.
cyberauron
12-05-2008, 12:37 AM
With the ending for secret invasion i wanted an ending. So far all of the marvel big events have left plot threads open for the next big event. Avengers Dissasemble led into House of M which led into civil war etc. Plus the Skrulls needed to have the heroes alive to keep the shift, than why is mockingbird the only one from the savageland on that ship.
Loved Noble Causes this week, I really don't know how Jay's going to wrap things up in 2 issues.
Also seems like I'm the only one who picked it as POW and yet it got 2% of the pick (judging by me unpicking it it loses the little POW percentage line), how does that work? I saw stuff with even smaller percentages than that.
labor_days
12-05-2008, 01:56 AM
Yeah, fuck it. Put me down for Dark Reign too. There is a Dr. Doom on the Dark Illuminati and that's all I really need at the end of the day.
excalipoor
12-05-2008, 02:24 AM
a bit piss off of the conclusion. only wasp died. and now dark reign? it's a bir like lex luthor it's the president in dc.
jmstump
12-05-2008, 03:34 AM
I have three reviews up:
Justice Society of America #21 (http://ifanboy.com/reviews/jstump/dc_comics/justice_society_of_america/21)
Jonah Hex #38 (http://ifanboy.com/reviews/jstump/dc_comics/jonah_hex/38)
Solomon Kane #3 (http://ifanboy.com/reviews/jstump/dark_horse_comics/solomon_kane/3_%28of_5%29)
I shame those who are not reading Solomon Kane. The book is amazing and was almost my POW. It wouldn't have been if it hadn't been for those pesky JSA and their writer Geoff Johns!
euchre0
12-05-2008, 04:19 AM
JSA #21"Did you just punch a lightning bolt?"
"Yes."
Best comic book ever.
I read this book first, saw that splash page and thought to myself, "Did Superman just punch a lighting bolt?! Pick of the week!" So awesome. A page later that awesomeness was confirmed. My favorite moment of the book so far, for sure.
It was a fantastic issue and I thought it was the best this week...until I read New Avengers, which made me exclaim, "Bendis! So this is where you've been hiding!"
This week was so good I imagine this is the kind of week that stresses out people who have to make picks for weekly podcasts.
I finally plowed through books from last week, which leaves me a little disappointed because there's lots to talk about from last week.
So far, this week, I've only read Batman, but it was fucking balls awesome. I really dug the way it tied into Final Crisis. The only thing that really confused me about it was that I thought it was a post RIP tie-in until the very end when it was actually tied into Final Crisis. Was this purposeful by Morrison? Most likely.
cenquist
12-05-2008, 04:46 AM
I forgot to grab Batman yesterday...dammit.
Punisher Xmas Special was my POW. I don't read alot of Punisher but saw Aaron was writing it and decided to pick it up, fantastic.
SI I came out loving it, but now that I have digested it over 24 hours I am now not too sure, I still think it was good just not the same as my first reaction to it.
cammyknoxville
12-05-2008, 06:24 AM
Immortal Iron Fist #20 - Finally I got a good grasp on this creative team, and really enjoyed the story in this conclusion. It also has plenty of interesting possibilities in store for future issues. I am really looking forward to the Eighth City, though.
Punisher: X-Mas Special - Holy shit. I knew Aaron could write both Ghost Rider and Wolverine, but it never once crossed my mind to put him on The Punisher! Supreme move, Marvel! The guy tells an awesome Christmas tale, that would make Santa himself shit his pants in terror...if Santa was involved with the mob. Killer book from a killer writer!
Amazing Spider-Man #579 - I like how friend and foe have to help each other out in order to survive at the end of the day. Plus, it's the Shocker, who needs more screen time in the Spidey comic. Humor's there, action is too, and once again Waid makes me interested in this Brand New Day nonsense.
Hellboy: The Wild Hunt #1 - Hellboy hunting giants in England, only to be stabbed in the back and become the hunted? Very cool issue, with beautiful art by Duncan Fegredo. I'll definitely be sticking around for this Hellboy story!
Justice Society of America #21 - Finally! Some fighting happens! Speaking of fighting giants, shit goes down and I loved how one by one the Earth-2 versions of the JSA were being transformed into the Earth-22 versions! Very creepy, and I can't wait to see the action-packed conclusion next month! Good job, Johns & Ross.
Batman #682 - I was very, very pleasantry surprised with this issue. For once, I understood what was going on, and found my fancy tickled by the end of the last page. And to think I was only going to pick it up for the Alex Ross cover! Who knew an enjoyable story was included?
Haunted Tank #1 - What the fuck did I just read?! Complete waste of time, and the most ridiculous comic I've read this week. Save your money, and avoid it at all costs.
New Avengers #47 - The conclusion of Secret Invasion debuted with this issue, so you'd think this issue would be equally action-packed. I found it boring and disappointing. Highly.
Secret Invasion #8 - I was very content with the end of this issue. I wasn't let-down, and I wasn't overwhelmed with joy. However, I do think it was much better of an event than Civil War, so it'll be interesting what the aftermath holds. If Hawkeye is happy, then I'm happy.
X-Men: Noir #1 - I had high hopes, that came crashing down in a fiery wreck. Nothing really original here, it could easily be a Marvel Knights title, or whatever "Elseworlds" imprint Marvel has. I had a problem with both the story and art.
paper
12-05-2008, 07:04 AM
Hellboy: The Wild Hunt is, perhaps, the book of my life. At the very least, my pick of the motherflippin' week.
If you haven't read Darkness Calls recently, check that out first and then grab this issue. Hellboy is no longer a casual read. To fully appreciate it, you're going to need to follow chronologically from here on out.
I love this world. There is so much thought put into this issue, it's absurd. You don't find this many ideas in some novels. And great storytelling and art too.
dave-accampo
12-05-2008, 07:24 AM
Decided to actually write a few reviews on the site this week:
New Avengers #47 (http://ifanboy.com/reviews/daccampo/marvel_comics/new_avengers/47)
Secret Invasion #8 (http://ifanboy.com/reviews/daccampo/marvel_comics/secret_invasion/8_%28of_8%29)
JSA #21 (http://ifanboy.com/reviews/daccampo/dc_comics/justice_society_of_america/21)
I suspect I will not be popular this week. I thought SI was decent. I really enjoyed New Avengers #47, which really just had a Luke/Jessica short story by Bendis and Gaydos in it. Fantastic. I really want to like JSA, but... despite the punch, it fell a bit flat for me.
Not reviewed was Batman, which actually started off pretty good. I liked Alfred's tale quite a bit. But then it devolved into Final Crisis stuff that I can't even remember well. Stuff that wasn't referenced in Batman yet, and isn't really recapped here. Where does this fit with the last issue?
Morrison really needs to slow down. The shift in his storytelling is becoming a fairly consistent problem for me. I see what he's trying to do, but it's almost like he doesn't even care about the narrative anymore. He's just doin' his free-form, improvisational idea-jazz solo across the DCU, and if you're not hip, then you're a square, Daddio.
esophagus
12-05-2008, 07:54 AM
Morrison really needs to slow down. The shift in his storytelling is becoming a fairly consistent problem for me. I see what he's trying to do, but it's almost like he doesn't even care about the narrative anymore. He's just doin' his free-form, improvisational idea-jazz solo across the DCU, and if you're not hip, then you're a square, Daddio.I keep saying this, but expressing it terribly. I think you and I are on the same page. He has so many ideas that they're all being kind of crammed everywhere. I'm really enjoying what he's doing, but more in concept than in execution. It'll probably be a while before I get the whole picture, but I'm excited to see how Final Crisis comes into play (I think). I knew it would be a part of this Batman storyline, but I didn't think it would be as significant as it seems it will.
dave-accampo
12-05-2008, 08:33 AM
I'm with ya, Eso.
It's funny, but in thinking over Secret Invasion and Batman this week, I see a parallel between Bendis and Morrison. They're both trying TOO hard to be different.
Bendis so does not want to fall into the typical structure of a super-hero comic that steers away from classic fight scenes and predictable outcomes, often into ambiguous resolutions. Morrison is completely playing with narrative structure and continuity. He's trying very hard to do something new with both Batman and super-hero comics, that he's losing sight of some elements of narrative craft.
I give 'em both credit for trying fresh things with the medium and the genre, but... there are definite failings for both.
meanoldpig
12-05-2008, 09:18 AM
I had a really good week. Hellboy, Criminal, and the Punisher were all excellent. If it wasn't for the line, " Wait. Are you pissed that you didn't get to inherit the slug house?" I don't know what I would have picked.
Also I am really warming up to the new Iron Fist team and look forward to the next arc.
Punisher Xmas Special was my POW. I don't read alot of Punisher but saw Aaron was writing it and decided to pick it up, fantastic.
Son of a bitch! I totally forgot to buy that. My brain is dying...
Not reviewed was Batman, which actually started off pretty good. I liked Alfred's tale quite a bit. But then it devolved into Final Crisis stuff that I can't even remember well. Stuff that wasn't referenced in Batman yet, and isn't really recapped here. Where does this fit with the last issue?
Depite the logo on the front, I don't think this was tied into RIP, except for the panels involving Hurt. I think this was strictly tied into Final Crisis. Or, it bridges the gap between the two story lines. I think we'll just have to see how next issue pans out. The CSN I got yesterday said that the Bat-line reboot isn't coming until February, so until then, we may not see a continuation of the RIP storyline.
oh_caroline
12-05-2008, 07:31 PM
It's supposed to be a bumb bumb bumb bumb! Moment, she's been good, but now we find out that she's been bad all along.
Or, that's what she WANTS you to think. . .
Seriously, I'm *highly* skeptical that this is a sign Emma's been on the dark side all along, considering that the people who are actually writing X-Men books seem pretty devoted to the character. And "Emma is evil" has been used as a tease as many times as "Jean is alive"; I'll believe it when I see it.
Anyway, I'm taking Namor's presence there as a sign that there's some complexity to the politics of the situation beyond "good guys vs. bad guys." Sure, he's often been an antagonist, but to suggest that he is evil the same way the Hood is evil seems pretty questionable. I often think comic book fandom is compelled to divide characters strictly into good and evil, because there's a perception that it's supposed to be that way in comic books -- even though it hardly ever is.
Personally, I'm hoping for a scene a few months or a year down the road where Cyclops finds out Emma has been lying to him about her association with Norman Osborn, and she finds out he's been lying to her about the existence of the X-Force black ops squad. It would be like "the gift of the magi", with lies instead of presents.
conorkilpatrick
12-05-2008, 07:37 PM
Or, that's what she WANTS you to think. . .
Seriously, I'm *highly* skeptical that this is a sign Emma's been on the dark side all along, considering that the people who are actually writing X-Men books seem pretty devoted to the character. And "Emma is evil" has been used as a tease as many times as "Jean is alive"; I'll believe it when I see it.
Agreed.
Anyway, I'm taking Namor's presence there as a sign that there's some complexity to the politics of the situation beyond "good guys vs. bad guys.".
Also agreed.
euchre0
12-05-2008, 09:04 PM
Q: J. Jonah Jameson has to be in his late 50s or early 60s, so his dad is probably somewhere around 70-90. How did JJJ Sr. give Spidey the slip?
A: Old people are super sneaky and more fleet of foot than they let on. I guess.
labor_days
12-05-2008, 11:20 PM
Re-read Batman #682. What beautiful and gut wrenching issue. The middle bits with Dick transforming Batman;s life was so emotionally potent. And of course, the killer reveal of what is happening to Batman's mind during all this as well as one the stealthiest retcons in history.
Subtitle: The Butler Did It
This motherfucking Grant Morrison.
So how much of that's happened in Batman do you think has all been in Bruce's head Labor? Just 682? All of RIP? The entirety of Morrison's run?
labor_days
12-05-2008, 11:37 PM
Hard to say. Though I don't think the entire run has been in the pain machine of Darkseid's minions. The more psychedelic aspects of it all strongly suggest manipulation of Batman's psyche by some unknown presence. And Batman's attempts to combat this assault on his mind.
A few clues have stuck with me: "Tell your Dark Master I am coming for him". Dark Master -> Dark One -> Darkseid?
Also, the ref. to the black book. The black book details Batman's supernatural adventures. Gods of the multiverse falling from the celestial heavens of imagination is pretty damn supernatural. And this could have been a way for Batman to rationalize the very outlandishness of the 4th world techno-gods.
But in any case, it makes every Batman adventure ever valid.
So how much of that's happened in Batman do you think has all been in Bruce's head Labor? Just 682? All of RIP? The entirety of Morrison's run?
Holy shit! I didn't even think of this.
My mind = blown
EDIT: Ok, so I'm thinking about this even more, and it's just fucking insane! If it plays out this way, that all or some of RIP was really what was happening to Batman during Final Crisis, Grant Morrison gets the gold star for life. Seriously awesome stuff...
Some people have also posited that Dr. Hurt is Desaad (because of de Sade) on the 11 O'Clock boards
crippler
12-06-2008, 02:23 AM
Oh yes, oh yes indeed... I went from being mildly pleased to completely awed in the space of a week. Batman barely appears in Final Crisis. That's because his story was playing out in RIP. Fantastic. We've been talking about it in the RIP thread as well. Morrison still has bring this to a proper conclusion, but, reading 682 and realizing that RIP had happened in Bruce's head was the most jaw-dropping moment I've had in comics in.... maybe ever.
Hellboy: The Wild Hunt is, perhaps, the book of my life. At the very least, my pick of the motherflippin' week.
If you haven't read Darkness Calls recently, check that out first and then grab this issue. Hellboy is no longer a casual read. To fully appreciate it, you're going to need to follow chronologically from here on out.
I love this world. There is so much thought put into this issue, it's absurd. You don't find this many ideas in some novels. And great storytelling and art too.
Completely agree here. This is a great issue, and it starts what will be a great Hellboy story. I think this is one of Mignola's better stories in a long time (except for that one-shot from a few weeks ago). This issue was so rock solid. It made me leap for joy.
So, I finally plowed through all of my books this week. I wrote reviews for The Sword and Criminal on the site.
I surprised myself by buying this week's and last week's issues of ASM. I'm not boycotting the title because of BND, but more because I don't want to buy a weekly book. I LOVED these issues. Marcos Martin could draw this book for life and I would love it. My favorite panel comes on page two of last week's issue: Spider-Man reading a fortune that says, "Today will be your lucky day" as he eats his Chinese food in the rain; in the splash page, as the rain falls through his web umbrella, he simply responds, "Har!" Love it!
I regret my rating for Batman. I gave it a four when I read it yesterday, but as I've thought about it and knowledge has been dropped on me in this very discussion, I very much want to give it a five. It really was a great book.
I don't have a solid POW yet, but it's between Hellboy, Batman, and Amazing Spider-Man.
Honestly, I don't know how X-Men Noir got picked over these things.
I don't have a solid POW yet, but it's between Hellboy, Batman, and Amazing Spider-Man.
Honestly, I don't know how X-Men Noir got picked over these things.
Part of it is Ron doesn't read Hellboy or Batman.
Part of it is Ron doesn't read Hellboy or Batman.
Well, that certainly would get in the way of things, wouldn't it? :)
thenextchampion
12-06-2008, 07:36 AM
Ron picked an X-title this week? Wow who would've thought that? *eye roll*
Batman #682: A real head scratcher here. I mean after 5 times reading it and getting a general opinion on this issue, it definitely makes more sense. I wont claim the theory but I swear I thought of 'RIP is a figment of Bruce's imagination during Final Crisis' after I got this. Either way who thought of it first, it would be genius if that was the case. Morrison would win writer of the year for me if this comes true.
Hellboy: Wild Hunt #1-Pick of the Week for me. Mignola is really doing something special here by bringing story elements of his Hellboy's past into this trade. The art is great in detail and the faces just blow me away. I'm really hoping something big will come from this in the upcoming issues.
JSA #21: For a comic that has been dragging it's feet over the last 4 issues: this sure got going fast didnt it? I wont complain though, the fight in this was pretty good. Jay Garrick turning into 'Kingdom Come' Flash might be my favorite moment of the week. Gog is especially creepy here and I hope we see more of him in the future, maybe a big time event villain would be great.
Big Waste of Time #8: (you know what it is) Terrible and absolutely pointless. I would go on and on and on, but read my review cause all my hatred is in that. But let me echo these two statements on here: A) If it wasnt for Deadpool, Nova, Incredible Herc, and (maybe) Captain America; I would drop MARVEL books entirely B) Brian Michael Bendis can go f**k himself and I will never, NEVER pick up any titles of his anymore.
labor_days
12-06-2008, 10:28 AM
Batman #682 is my POW, but JSA #21 was awfully close. I was not one of those who began to become impatient during the Gog arc. Enjoyed the entire ride, especially the Earth-2 bits. Johns hasn't missed a beat during this entire JSA run. Still the best superhero book being published monthly.
But yes, clearly Batman was the most ambitious and thoughtful book I read this week.
esophagus
12-06-2008, 10:50 AM
Ron picked an X-title this week? Wow who would've thought that? *eye roll*I see a lot of this. This is Ron's second X-Men pick of 2008. That's 16 weeks, and 2 have had X-Men books.
Edit: Not to single you out, I just happened to see this after reading the comments on the review.
oh_caroline
12-06-2008, 02:59 PM
I see a lot of this. This is Ron's second X-Men pick of 2008. That's 16 weeks, and 2 have had X-Men books.
Edit: Not to single you out, I just happened to see this after reading the comments on the review.
I think people who assume Ron will pick any X-book don't actually realize how many of the damn things come out.
labor_days
12-06-2008, 07:51 PM
Picking one X-men book in 2008 was more than enough.
oh_caroline
12-06-2008, 08:22 PM
I'm always impressed with people who have the ability to critique books they didn't buy and haven't read.
Is there somewhere I can take a class in that?
You just bend over and imitate Jim Carrey in Ace Ventura.
I'm always impressed with people who have the ability to critique books they didn't buy and haven't read.
Is there somewhere I can take a class in that?
I hear what you're saying, and my comments are not meant as a critique to the book. More as a critique to the concept. You mentioned on the site that you thought it was a little bit better than Criminal because it was fresher, but I just don't know how this book can out noir the best noir book out there.
The concept, to me as a non-reading X person, sounds completely ridiculous. The X-Men have never come off as characters that belong in a noir world in any way. It seems like an attempt to get X-men fans to buy one more X book, and when I look at it, I see it as a contrived idea. But that's just me.
I think its perfectly fine that people liked it, but with all the other quality out this week, I find it hard to grasp why this book was so much better. To me, this book seems like it should be surprisingly good (because it has the look of a book that should be bad).
But hey, different strokes, different folks.
oh_caroline
12-06-2008, 08:33 PM
I hear what you're saying, and my comments are not meant as a critique to the book. More as a critique to the concept. You mentioned on the site that you thought it was a little bit better than Criminal because it was fresher, but I just don't know how this book can out noir the best noir book out there.
And I don't know how it's possible to defend something that people seem to feel they're above reading.
I have pre-conceptions about Morrison's current work, but I am not coming on threads slagging people for liking Final Crisis and RIP because I'm sure it's possible that I would get it if I read it.
labor_days
12-06-2008, 08:37 PM
I read X-Men Noir. It was not particularly good comics. No.
Yeah but you loved Superman Beyond so... ;)
labor_days
12-06-2008, 08:42 PM
So my taste is excellent and consistently awesome.
paper
12-06-2008, 08:44 PM
I hate mutants more than just about anybody and I enjoyed X-Men Noir. It's not better than Criminal, but it's a good read. I have it a 4. It didn't lose a star because it involved the X characters. It got the highest rating I could give any book that didn't totally floor me. It's above average.
Good story is good story is good fuckin' story. Leave your baggage at the door. Appraise a book by its own merits and not the mess beyond outside the margins.
labor_days
12-06-2008, 09:02 PM
Should be said I am a (self-hating) X-men fan. I un-ironically buy NYX2.
X-men Noir was just a whole of w/e.
week end?
wild excitement?
whale estrogen?
water evaporation?
labor_days
12-06-2008, 09:09 PM
Get smart, Gobo.
w/e = whatevers brah.
labor_days
12-06-2008, 09:21 PM
Brah is always implied.
oh_caroline
12-06-2008, 10:14 PM
I read X-Men Noir. It was not particularly good comics. No.
So we disagree, so that's fine.
(It wasn't my favorite thing this week, either, but my favorite thing this week was "Cable" so I'm aware I have no credibility).
The new Cable series has been awesome. At least in terms of writing.
I really don't like the artist which makes it tough to enjoy sometimes
oh_caroline
12-06-2008, 10:34 PM
The new Cable series has been awesome. At least in terms of writing.
I really don't like the artist which makes it tough to enjoy sometimes
I've been lukewarm on the series overall -- some promising ideas w/ iffy execution, and also to be fair some not-so-great ideas -- but I really liked this issue. Swierczy has a nice feel for the X-Men, and he's made Bishop into a terrifyingly single-minded villain. Cable's future-life and the Hope character were well-fleshed out here, which they hadn't been before.
The art's not to my taste, but in this issue at least, I thought it did a passable job of getting the story across.
That said, I know one of the reasons I picked it is that I'm itching to read good Cable stories because I'm fond of the character. And. . .I think that's a perfectly acceptable reason to make something a pick. Somebody who doesn't care about Cable or the X-Men might not care about this book, but I'm not going to feel guilty (or self-loathing) for liking it just because of that. If we're not willing to own up to liking the books we like for fear of offending some mythical Platonic standard of comic book quality, what's the point of having these conversations?
(ETA: I realize nobody has actually criticized me for liking this, but I'm well aware some of you are thinking it :P)
If we're not willing to own up to liking the books we like for fear of offending some mythical Platonic standard of comic book quality, what's the point of having these conversations?
Hear! Hear!
labor_days
12-06-2008, 10:41 PM
The new Cable series has been awesome. At least in terms of writing.
Laugh Out Loud.
Likely always urging gnomes harder Only under trees Loving our under dress ?
oh_caroline
12-06-2008, 11:31 PM
Laugh Out Loud.
Oh, you're reading that one too?
You shouldn't read so many books you don't like, it makes you cranky.
timmywood-
12-06-2008, 11:35 PM
A) If it wasnt for Deadpool, Nova, Incredible Herc, and (maybe) Captain America; I would drop MARVEL books entirely B) Brian Michael Bendis can go f**k himself and I will never, NEVER pick up any titles of his anymore.
promises, promises. I also said I would never read a Ghost Rider book and look at me now.
Speaking of I loved Jason Aarons Punisher Xmas special. I don't know how he has done it but he has made me pick up books I never thought I would ever read. Ghost Rider, Punisher, Black Panther. And I am loving them. If I found out he was writing a book about Bishop tomorrow I would buy it in a heartbeat.
It was a great week this week I thought. I just jumped on Amazing Spider-Man a couple of issues back and am glad I did. I liked this issue of Batman probably more than all of the RIP arc and I am really looking forward to the next issue of JSA.
YEAH COMICS!
labor_days
12-07-2008, 12:09 AM
Oh, you're reading that one too?
You shouldn't read so many books you don't like, it makes you cranky.
No, actually. But I feel comfortable believing Cable is one of the worst things being published. Supremely comfortable in that. Oh yes.
Also, enjoying the sweet, sweet irony of Gobo being a reader of the monthly serial comic book drama, Cable.
Not sure how that's ironic, but ok
valoharth
12-07-2008, 12:28 AM
No, actually. But I feel comfortable believing Cable is one of the worst things being published. Supremely comfortable in that. Oh yes.Cable.
Wow, I'm in agreement with you on this.
oh_caroline
12-07-2008, 01:53 AM
No, actually. But I feel comfortable believing Cable is one of the worst things being published. Supremely comfortable in that. Oh yes.
And this is the "critiquing things you've never read" skill I mentioned.
If that's what you want to do, good luck and God bless, as long as we're clear that's what you're doing.
And I don't know how it's possible to defend something that people seem to feel they're above reading.
I never said I was above reading it. I'm just disinterested in it. I see the cover to this and think, "This is pure X-Men porn."
I'm not a huge X-Men fan, so it makes sense to me that I can disagree with the pick. Or at least, I can call Ron the craziest mofo this side of the block.
oh_caroline
12-07-2008, 02:14 AM
I never said I was above reading it. I'm just disinterested in it. I see the cover to this and think, "This is pure X-Men porn."
I'm not a huge X-Men fan, so it makes sense to me that I can disagree with the pick. Or at least, I can call Ron the craziest mofo this side of the block.
I phrased that poorly; "I didn't read it, I'm pretty sure it wasn't good" type statements just get under my skin. It wasn't just you or just this thread that I was talking about.
I would say that the "X-Men porn" is really not accurate. There are nods to X-Men characters (as well as other characters including the Golden Age Angel, who's more of a Shadow-type detective-disguised-as-a-rich-dilletante.) But you don't need any of that to the story. In fact, I think a lot of hardcore X Men fans will be turned off by seeing their characters presented as sociopaths.
thenextchampion
12-07-2008, 02:25 AM
Maybe I should've said 'Oh Ron liked an X-Title. How surprising *eye roll*' instead of saying he picked it. Didnt mean to sound crass or a jerk, just thought it would be a funny joke....guess it wasnt. ^^;
@TimmyWood!: This is a promise I am going to keep, say it's an early 'New Year's' promise. I know it's hypocritcal cause I am still going to pick up those 4 Marvel titles I mentioned. But I swear from now on, I will not pick up any other Marvel title nor will I pick up anything with the last name Bendis on the cover. (Which is a shame on the first part cause two new Punisher series are coming out this month and next year)
@Oh_Caroline: Reading your early (and very good reviews) on Cable, I picked it up at my store to see how good it might be.....and I didnt particually like it. Dont get me wrong, I think Swyerzinski (or however you spell it) is trying his best making this story of the Messiah baby work. But Cable as a whole just doesnt feel like something worth picking up. Which, again, is a shame cause this baby is a big factor in the X-Men books and she's stuck in this. Mainly it was the art that killed me on Cable. I know it's had various artists, but Ariel Olivetti might be the worst artist I have ever seen. His pencils are butt ugly and he should credit his computer he uses more then his actual name. Bishop looked like a california raisin for god sakes.
oh_caroline
12-07-2008, 03:55 AM
@Oh_Caroline: Reading your early (and very good reviews) on Cable, I picked it up at my store to see how good it might be.....and I didnt particually like it. Dont get me wrong, I think Swyerzinski (or however you spell it) is trying his best making this story of the Messiah baby work. But Cable as a whole just doesnt feel like something worth picking up. Which, again, is a shame cause this baby is a big factor in the X-Men books and she's stuck in this.
It's definitely uneven; this is really only the second issue I have thought was really good (I can't even remember what the first one was -- probably the annual, actually). But there are some intriguing ideas in here, and I think the story is set up so that it's *going* some place, which is why I'm sticking with it.
Did you read Cable & Deadpool at all, btw? I know you like the Deadpool book. C&D is like a great Deadpool book + serious Messianic insanity.
thenextchampion
12-07-2008, 04:34 AM
It's definitely uneven; this is really only the second issue I have thought was really good (I can't even remember what the first one was -- probably the annual, actually). But there are some intriguing ideas in here, and I think the story is set up so that it's *going* some place, which is why I'm sticking with it.
Did you read Cable & Deadpool at all, btw? I know you like the Deadpool book. C&D is like a great Deadpool book + serious Messianic insanity.
I read the last remaining issues of the team up....I believe a little pre-civil war and til the end of the concept of the book. If anyone doesnt know, the last arc (or 4-5 issues?) was basically a Deadpool only title. It was a good idea for a team up, and maybe if I did miss the 'golden age' of the title...it's definitely worth another go around if there was a Marvel-Team Up book or something.
esophagus
12-07-2008, 06:34 AM
I never said I was above reading it. I'm just disinterested in it. I see the cover to this and think, "This is pure X-Men porn."
I'm not a huge X-Men fan, so it makes sense to me that I can disagree with the pick. Or at least, I can call Ron the craziest mofo this side of the block.
Seeing a book you automatically assumed you would dislike and didn't buy make Pick of the Week should make you re-evaluate your stance or listen to the buzz a little harder. At the very least it should just make you entirely indifferent. There's no possible rational way to explain being able to disagree with something you have not experienced.
"I heard a movie called Titanic just won Best Picture. Obviously they were wrong. I've heard of a boat called Titanic before, this is just a reused story."
humphrey-lee
12-07-2008, 08:26 AM
I'm always impressed with people who have the ability to critique books they didn't buy and haven't read.
Is there somewhere I can take a class in that?
Y'know, honestly and truly, as some one who reads something like 120 brand new books a month, who routinely adds about 80 TPBs and OGNs to his collection a year, and has been reading comics for a decade and a half and even "professionally" reviewing them for near a handful now, I find it's actually kind of shocking at how well you can get a feel for where a book will lie in the quality scale or the "fanboy appeal" scale by just giving it a quick look over. Now, I'm talking mainstream comics here mostly because you're just never going to fully know with a completely Indie book since there's so many unknowns there, but with enough familiarity with the industry like the companies/imprints that are producing whatever you have there, or knowledge of the creative team, and an idea what is going to be done with the characters or the setting they're in and so on and so forth, you can usually get a good idea of what you're in for.
Obviously there's going to be pleasant surprises here and there, just like there's going to be over-exaggerations due to fanboy geekasms or people biased to a certain type of book or product, but more often than not you're going to know what you're in for. Like, take something like X-MEN NOIR there. Just looking at a preview page or two I could tell it was something that was probably a neat little distraction from the norm if you're a fan of the characters in the book, and setting probably adds a neat twist as well giving it the harder edge you may not be used to, all in all making for a read that's probably like a 7/10 but due to some little twinges of fanboyism could probably give it that extra little "rose tint" on it to make it something more in your eyes than it really is. Fanboy porn I guess is what we call it these days. And there's nothing wrong with that. We all need our little things to get excited over, especially since everything reads so fucking typically these days, but it's just a matter of how honest you're being with yourself. Is it really that good, or are you just so starved for something different from what you're getting yet familiar that it's just stroking you just right?
X-MEN NOIR is probably a good comic. Maybe even a really good comic. I wouldn't know because I with all the shipping changes and work shit I haven't even finished books from last week, let alone stuff I'd be shelf reading to be up on what's out there, but I can tell you right now without even looking it's not better than something like CRIMINAL that came out this week. I'm going to read it when I can because I like to know about as much of what's out there as I can that way when I make statements like "Wasteland is easily better than 99% of the stuff the Big Two produces" then I'm not totally talking out of my ass. And I'll admit I may be wrong or off base, but I'm also willing to bet I'm probably not. But I'm also a bit of a cock, so what do I know?
labor_days
12-07-2008, 09:59 AM
Not sure how that's ironic, but ok
Yeah but you loved Superman Beyond so...
Get smart, Gobo!
(this parenthetical sentence is an excuse to lengthen the message before post.)
labor_days
12-07-2008, 10:17 AM
And this is the "critiquing things you've never read" skill I mentioned.
If that's what you want to do, good luck and God bless, as long as we're clear that's what you're doing.
I am not necessarily critiquing Cable though. I was making a (hyperbolic) judgment call based on years of experience as a comic reader and knowledge of how the industry and archetypes of comic books shake out.
Pedigree, lineage, transparency, savvy-ness, et cetera are all valid and necessary as grounds of critique & judgment.
It would just be ridiculous to go about the store saying, "Oh I shouldn't think this book isn't for me until I've read first!". Unless one were super rich and had more free time than they know what to do with.
(this parenthetical sentence is an excuse to lengthen the message before post.)
Well the latest issue of Cable was better than Superman Beyond.
paper
12-07-2008, 02:30 PM
Can we please talk about how awesome Hellboy was instead of bickering about books we may or may not have read about, eww, Cable?
Can we please talk about how awesome Hellboy was instead of bickering about books we may or may not have read about, eww, Cable?
Papes, what did you find so great about it? I LOVED this issue, and I think it stems from the fact that it was one of the first issues I've read where it didn't follow the formula of getting called to a mystery, making something big wake-up, and Hellboy hits it with his whammer.
I also feel like this was one of Mignola's stronger issues. It wasn't too fast or to jumbled. I feel like a lot of his writing style is very obtuse with things coming together later in a series. But I felt like I got this story a lot.
Oh, and the art was boss.
Seeing a book you automatically assumed you would dislike and didn't buy make Pick of the Week should make you re-evaluate your stance or listen to the buzz a little harder. At the very least it should just make you entirely indifferent. There's no possible rational way to explain being able to disagree with something you have not experienced.
"I heard a movie called Titanic just won Best Picture. Obviously they were wrong. I've heard of a boat called Titanic before, this is just a reused story."
This is probably going to sound horrible, but I think I would have re-evaluated buying the book if someone other than Ron had made it their Pick of the Week. The fact that the major X-Men fan picked it, doesn't convince me that I would like this as a non-X-Men fan. As of now, I'm not interested in the series, but if all of the guys like it on the show, then I may be more inclined to pick it up.
oh_caroline
12-07-2008, 03:46 PM
My last word on this subject, I promise: There is an enormous difference between saying, "Based on my experience reading comics for years and what I know about the industry, that doesn't sound like something I want to try, however I'd love to talk about these other books I liked, because I think other people will like them, too" and saying, "The book that I didn't read is obviously bad and there is a flaw in the reasoning of the person who said it was the best book they read." [ETA: I should say I'm specifically talking about conversations in response to somebody else's positive review, not that it's never okay to generalize about quality, ever.]
If that's not self-evident, then we're coming at this from different places and I don't have anything else to say.
oh_caroline
12-07-2008, 03:55 PM
I read the last remaining issues of the team up....I believe a little pre-civil war and til the end of the concept of the book. If anyone doesnt know, the last arc (or 4-5 issues?) was basically a Deadpool only title. It was a good idea for a team up, and maybe if I did miss the 'golden age' of the title...it's definitely worth another go around if there was a Marvel-Team Up book or something.
'Cable & Deadpool' wasn't really a teamup, it was an ongoing that had 50 issues (but really only the first 35 and one or two later issues had Cable in them). I thought the Civil War tie-in was brilliant -- it was simultaneously a send-up of the whole crossover, and a serious examination of the issues -- and the earlier trade "The Burnt Offering" is one of my favorite Marvel arcs; the rest of the series wasn't all up to that standard, but there was still a lot of deranged fun from watching the characters play off each other and Fabian Nicieza go crazy with all the weirdest comic-book tropes he could think of.
paper
12-07-2008, 04:06 PM
Papes, what did you find so great about it? I LOVED this issue, and I think it stems from the fact that it was one of the first issues I've read where it didn't follow the formula of getting called to a mystery, making something big wake-up, and Hellboy hits it with his whammer.
I also feel like this was one of Mignola's stronger issues. It wasn't too fast or to jumbled. I feel like a lot of his writing style is very obtuse with things coming together later in a series. But I felt like I got this story a lot.
Oh, and the art was boss.
You've pretty much nailed why I was so impressed with this issue. It's more sophisticated than Mignola's usually simplistic structure, which, to be fair, is completely in line with fairy tales and folk lore. I think it's the natural progression for the series. Earlier stories were inspired by world mythology, and now that those elements are established, there's more and more blending going on, more and more continuity. So the complexity is building.
oh_caroline
12-07-2008, 04:34 PM
You've pretty much nailed why I was so impressed with this issue. It's more sophisticated than Mignola's usually simplistic structure, which, to be fair, is completely in line with fairy tales and folk lore. I think it's the natural progression for the series. Earlier stories were inspired by world mythology, and now that those elements are established, there's more and more blending going on, more and more continuity. So the complexity is building.
On a more positive note than I've previously contributed to this thread, you and Neb have definitely interested me in checking this series out.
I'm still waiting to get that Hellboy Library edition, I had to hold off since I'm in a buying freeze for birthday/christmas season.
thenextchampion
12-07-2008, 05:26 PM
This is probably going to sound horrible, but I think I would have re-evaluated buying the book if someone other than Ron had made it their Pick of the Week. The fact that the major X-Men fan picked it, doesn't convince me that I would like this as a non-X-Men fan. As of now, I'm not interested in the series, but if all of the guys like it on the show, then I may be more inclined to pick it up.
I agree 100% with this statement.
It might sound bad, but it's really hard to pick a book up mentioned by someone who is clearly an uber fan of the character(s). Especially with Ron when it comes to any X-title mentioned or used as POTW. Now I'm not saying his opinion is totally bias or that the issue he talks about isnt good.....It's just that when you admit to others that you are an uber fan of the X-Men, then it's hard to really think highly of a book he picked cause of the bias.
It's like: 'X-Men Noir was my pick of the week this week'. If someone didnt read his great review of it, how many honestly think to themselves: 'Oh he just likes it cause he's a X-man fantatic.' Now this doesnt mean it should exclude the itrinity to not pick up books when they have a bias or love for the character, they should. (Learned that from the Powers fiasco a few months back) But you definitely get the ination puzzled when you keep saying something is the greatest thing ever when the people clearly dont feel the same way.
Then again Ron admitted on the podcast he keeps giving Uncanny X-Men a 4 every issue...So what do I know?
valoharth
12-07-2008, 05:36 PM
Can we please talk about how awesome Hellboy was instead of bickering about books we may or may not have read about, eww, Cable?
If by awesome you mean LAME! I hated this issue, Mignola has obviously lost it! The art was off, not to mention the pacing of the story it's self. It was as if a baboon was given a crayon (pronounce it "crown") and given free reign.
But I will tell you how I really feel once I actually read it :D
oh_caroline
12-07-2008, 06:14 PM
If by awesome you mean LAME! I hated this issue, Mignola has obviously lost it! The art was off, not to mention the pacing of the story it's self. It was as if a baboon was given a crayon (pronounce it "crown") and given free reign.
But I will tell you how I really feel once I actually read it :D
Great review! I am writing my review of the new "Batman" issue right now. It's based on a quick glimpse at the cover, an interview I read with Grant Morrison, and the fact that somebody who was mean to me one time said they really liked it.
Worst issue ever!
I think I read somewhere that sarcasm was banned long ago from this forum. :)
thenextchampion
12-07-2008, 06:41 PM
I think I read somewhere that sarcasm was banned long ago from this forum. :)
Oh sarcasm was banned? What a really GREAT idea. ;)
oh_caroline
12-07-2008, 06:50 PM
I think I read somewhere that sarcasm was banned long ago from this forum. :)
I kid because I love, I promise :p
labor_days
12-07-2008, 09:34 PM
I don't really enjoy the Hellboy world unless Lobster Johnson is in it.
labor_days
12-07-2008, 09:37 PM
Great review! I am writing my review of the new "Batman" issue right now. It's based on a quick glimpse at the cover, an interview I read with Grant Morrison, and the fact that somebody who was mean to me one time said they really liked it.
Worst issue ever!
I would probably enjoy such a review more than one about Cable. Rather the reviewer had the poor sense to read Cable or not. /dunk'd
+ ;)
euchre0
12-08-2008, 08:49 PM
This is a promise I am going to keep, say it's an early 'New Year's' promise. I know it's hypocritcal cause I am still going to pick up those 4 Marvel titles I mentioned. But I swear from now on, I will not pick up any other Marvel title nor will I pick up anything with the last name Bendis on the cover.
Why? Why make such staunch declarations when you have no idea what will happen in the future? I can't blame you for being disappointed with Secret Invasion, but Bendis has written some great comics in the past. So, while he is capable of writing some underwhelming events, he's proven himself capable of writing good comics in Daredevil, Powers, Ultimate Spider-Man, and Alias to name a few. What if Bendis gets a assigned a new Punisher and Deadpool monthly? What's the point of declaring you will only buy 4 Marvel titles "ever" when you have no idea what they will publish over the next years and decades? It seems like this promise is really more painting yourself into a corner than anything else.
thenextchampion
12-08-2008, 11:46 PM
Why? Why make such staunch declarations when you have no idea what will happen in the future? I can't blame you for being disappointed with Secret Invasion, but Bendis has written some great comics in the past. So, while he is capable of writing some underwhelming events, he's proven himself capable of writing good comics in Daredevil, Powers, Ultimate Spider-Man, and Alias to name a few. What if Bendis gets a assigned a new Punisher and Deadpool monthly? What's the point of declaring you will only buy 4 Marvel titles "ever" when you have no idea what they will publish over the next years and decades? It seems like this promise is really more painting yourself into a corner than anything else.
Advance Solicts will keep me in line to know what is coming in the future. Although the idea of Bendis on Deadpool is intriguing....
NO! I've been disappointed by Bendis all year, I anit gonna keep buying stuff on a guy who hasnt reached to me in a full year. Oh and if I can update my decralation...it's actually 6 titles. I forgot about Punisher MAX and Wolverine. ^^;
euchre0
12-09-2008, 07:36 PM
NO! I've been disappointed by Bendis all year, I anit gonna keep buying stuff on a guy who hasnt reached to me in a full year. Oh and if I can update my decralation...it's actually 6 titles. I forgot about Punisher MAX and Wolverine. ^^;
That's what I mean though. This particular writer has at least a decade of stories out there, and this one storyline somehow negates all his previous writing? If you didn't like Secret Invasion, it makes sense that you didn't like the last year of Bendis' stories because most were dominated by the Secret Invasion storyline. What is the point of saying you are done with a particular writer simply because one storyline or one year?
More specifically, what's the point of saying you will only buy 4 Marvel books when you increase that number a week later? Then what's the point of saying you will only buy 6 books? Will it be 8 books next week/month?
That's what I mean though. This particular writer has at least a decade of stories out there, and this one storyline somehow negates all his previous writing? If you didn't like Secret Invasion, it makes sense that you didn't like the last year of Bendis' stories because most were dominated by the Secret Invasion storyline. What is the point of saying you are done with a particular writer simply because one storyline or one year?
More specifically, what's the point of saying you will only buy 4 Marvel books when you increase that number a week later? Then what's the point of saying you will only buy 6 books? Will it be 8 books next week/month?
I think what you're saying is that he should write off Bendis written events, but not his other particular books?
While I'm not sworn off Bendis, SI was fairly disappointing, but I still enjoy a majority of his work, particularly POWERS and New Avengers. I'm actually really looking forward to his collaboration with Jon Hickman.