Episode 38 - A Few Pennies For A Beer! [Discussion]

[travislopes]

No matter what the setup, the very best scams are the ones that let the mark think they're on top, only to get punked in the end. That's what makes the penny prediction so great

Watch and get scammed here. (http://revision3.com/scamschool/pennyprediction/)

[hayz]

No matter what the setup, the very best scams are the ones that let the mark think they're on top, only to get punked in the end. That's what makes the penny prediction so great

Watch and get scammed here. (http://revision3.com/scamschool/pennyprediction/)

hmmm, very nice trick, now i have to make half a penny...

[comeoneileen]

A little behind the scenes here....

Brian likes to try some of the puzzle tricks on me while prepping for the shoot, mostly because I ALWAYS fall for them - ALWAYS. Maybe in a future episode, i'll finally get scammed for the cameras? Maybe.

For the penny prediction I chose 11. So the trick went:

1 + 1 = 2

11 - 2 = 9

For the next step, I got a little confused when Brian said, "now add the two digits of that number and add them together". Whaa???? I don't have two digits. Thinking I did something wrong, I did the math again.

Pretty quickly Brian figured out what I had and said it didn't matter, and skipped to the step that makes you divide that number by 2. Of course I didn't question anything. I honestly thought I had done something wrong with my math and never in a thousand years think he would have half a penny in his hand.

In thinking about it, the same result would happen if your mark picks anything btw 10-19.

[paperleight]

The statement "Pick a two-digit number between 1-100" technically doesn't make much sense.

What if the target chose number 1 thru 9 as their starting point? Simply adding a zero in front makes it a two digit number. Then following the instructions as stated in the scam:

* start with their two-digit number: (05)
* add up the two digits of their number (0+5=5), and subtract that amount from their number (5-5=0, or 00)
* add up the digits that make up this new number (0+0=0)
* divide that sum by two (0/2=0)

Therefore, starting off with numbers 1 thru 9 will NOT work in this scam.

Also what if the target chose 100 as their starting point? Obviously 100 isn't a two digit number, so why even include it in the original statement? But for the sake of argument, following the instructions as stated in the scam:

* start with their two-digit number: (100)
* add up the two digits of their number (1+0+0=1), and subtract that amount from their number (100-1=99)
* add up the digits that make up this new number (9+9=18)
* divide that sum by two (18/2=9)

Therefore, starting off with the number 100 will NOT work for this scam, either.

Let's Review:

If the target chooses the numbers 1-9, or 100, the scam will NOT work. So the statement of "pick a two digit number between 1-100" if pointless. Using the examples above, you can correct it by simply saying "Pick a number between 10-99." Saying it that way doesn't have a nice ring to it, unfortunately.

I hate to play the roll of party pooper, but what I stated above is very important to make this scam work. Even correcting it won't make it sound much better either. Nevertheless I like the idea, and will be trying this scam as well, hoping the above doesn't happen!

Thanks for all you do, Brian!!

Sincerely,
Brian from Jenks, USA

[shwooddotcom]

What if the target chose number 1 thru 9 as their starting point? Simply adding a zero in front makes it a two digit number.

If you want my judge's ruling: I'm gonna say...No. The numbers 1 through 9 are not two-digit numbers. In fact, I'm pretty sure they're the very definition of single digit numbers.

But you're right, it is redundant to say "a two-digit number between 1 and 100," since all two-digit numbers are already between 1 and 100 (except the negative integers). But it sounds nice, and it's not as distracting as saying "I would like you to pick any two-digit positive integer between and including eleven and ninety-nine," which would be more accurate.

some other equally redundant phrases:

AC current -- Alternating Current current
ATM machine -- Automated Teller Machine machine
DAT tape -- Digital Audio Tape tape
DC current -- Direct Current current
HIV virus -- Human Immunodeficiency Virus virus
IRA account -- Individual Retirement Account account
LAN network -- Local Area Network network
LCD display -- Liquid Crystal Display display
PIN number -- Personal Identification Number number
RF frequency -- Radio Frequency frequency
SALT talks -- Strategic Arms Limitation Talks talks
UPC code -- Universal Product Code code

PS - Watching the episode, I totally noticed the odd phrasing I used myself, but decided that it would be a bigger deal to change it than just go with it as is.

[astx813]

some other equally redundant phrases:

ATM machine -- Automated Teller Machine machine
PIN number -- Personal Identification Number number

Gah, in my family these two are on all our list of pet peeves. I fight the power by calling them AT Machines around the people who say ATM Machine...

[shwooddotcom]

I hate to play the roll of party pooper, but what I stated above is very important to make this scam work. Even correcting it won't make it sound much better either. Nevertheless I like the idea, and will be trying this scam as well, hoping the above doesn't happen!

Hey Brian-- Don't forget, too that you're the one in control, and if someone screws up the trick by picking a single digit number, then you'll get a few minutes of comedy out of it... "let me get this straight: I asked you for a TWO DIGIT NUMBER..." etc. etc.

Plus: the best part is that you'll know something's gone wrong before you show your prediction, allowing you to chide them and re-do everything.

[metallicnitro]

there is also a variation to this:

Pick any number
Double it
add 10
Divide it in half
now subtract the original number you started with from the number you have now and you should get 5.

Let's try it out:

10 > 20 > 30 > 15 > (15-10) = 5
0 > 0 > 10 > 5 > (5-0) = 5
100 > 200 > 210 > 105 (105-100) = 5
17 > 34 > 44 > 22 > (22-17) = 5

[dmann]

My favorite:

RBI's -- Runs batted in('s???)


If you want my judge's ruling: I'm gonna say...No. The numbers 1 through 9 are not two-digit numbers. In fact, I'm pretty sure they're the very definition of single digit numbers.

But you're right, it is redundant to say "a two-digit number between 1 and 100," since all two-digit numbers are already between 1 and 100 (except the negative integers). But it sounds nice, and it's not as distracting as saying "I would like you to pick any two-digit positive integer between and including eleven and ninety-nine," which would be more accurate.

some other equally redundant phrases:

AC current -- Alternating Current current
ATM machine -- Automated Teller Machine machine
DAT tape -- Digital Audio Tape tape
DC current -- Direct Current current
HIV virus -- Human Immunodeficiency Virus virus
IRA account -- Individual Retirement Account account
LAN network -- Local Area Network network
LCD display -- Liquid Crystal Display display
PIN number -- Personal Identification Number number
RF frequency -- Radio Frequency frequency
SALT talks -- Strategic Arms Limitation Talks talks
UPC code -- Universal Product Code code

PS - Watching the episode, I totally noticed the odd phrasing I used myself, but decided that it would be a bigger deal to change it than just go with it as is.

[uuilliam]

metallic the cwhole point of it being 4.5 is so the "mark" things oh you cant get half a penny so no way hes getting this" with 5 it doesnt have the same effect

[astx813]

RBI's -- Runs batted in('s???)

I guess the right way would be more like "attorneys general," so it would be RsBI? I also cringe when I see people use 's to make a word plural...

[metallicnitro]

metallic the cwhole point of it being 4.5 is so the "mark" things oh you cant get half a penny so no way hes getting this" with 5 it doesnt have the same effect

Yeah I know, but for those of us without a half a penny can use that method instead...

[travislopes]

there is also a variation to this:

Pick any number
Double it
add 10
Divide it in half
now subtract the original number you started with from the number you have now and you should get 5.

Let's try it out:

10 > 20 > 30 > 15 > (15-10) = 5
0 > 0 > 10 > 5 > (5-0) = 5
100 > 200 > 210 > 105 (105-100) = 5
17 > 34 > 44 > 22 > (22-17) = 5

It doesn't work for the number 1
1 > 2 > 12 > 6 > (1-6) = -5

[hayz]

It doesn't work for the number 1
1 > 2 > 12 > 6 > (1-6) = -5

you subtract your original number from what you end up with, you got it backwards, it would be 6-1 since you started with one

(PS. that does equal 5)

Also, my first success with this trick was betting someone who i work with a dollar, i then used that dollar to buy a bottle of iced tea, yay free drinks :D

[travislopes]

you subtract your original number from what you end up with, you got it backwards, it would be 6-1 since you started with one

(PS. that does equal 5)
Ahh. My bad. Goddamn ten year old sister.... screwed up my logic.

[hogiewan]

that's right - Anti-lock Brake System brakes

brian - if 11 is valid because the two digits you add at the end are 0 and 9, then you probably should specify you can't choose 0-9, but it's not really necessary. All you really have to say is "choose any 2 digit number" and most people would get it. If they don't, you're legally allowed to punch them in the throat - twice.

I've seen the math part before on an email or something, but the half penny part is genius. Who thinks of this stuff?

[miknarf]

It's a little odd that he choose the movie "The Spanish Prisoner" as the netflix pick, seeing as you can't get that movie though netflix. I was a little disappointed looked like a good movie.

[shwooddotcom]

It's a little odd that he choose the movie "The Spanish Prisoner" as the netflix pick, seeing as you can't get that movie though netflix. I was a little disappointed looked like a good movie.

Ouch! You're right! I can't believe it!

I'll have to fix this, right away...

[hogiewan]

I forgot to mention it before, but the guy in green (on the left) was hammered!!!

[masherscf]

05 is not a two digit number. We always start counting the digits at the first non-zero digit. Therefore, 05 is not allowed, but 50 is.


The trick doesn't distinguish between multiples of 9. So the only way we can limit the lack of discrimination is to limit the choice of numbers. So, the trick doesn't work for number less than 10 or more than 99. .

there is also a variation to this:

Pick any number
Double it
add 10
Divide it in half
now subtract the original number you started with from the number you have now and you should get 5.

Let's try it out:

10 > 20 > 30 > 15 > (15-10) = 5
0 > 0 > 10 > 5 > (5-0) = 5
100 > 200 > 210 > 105 (105-100) = 5
17 > 34 > 44 > 22 > (22-17) = 5

Pick X

Double it 2X

Add 10 2X+10

Divide by 2 (2X+10)/2=X+5

Subtract X (X+5)-X = 5


So, the trick works because of the distributive property. That's not the same kind of trick at all. This trick works on a completely different principle.

*** Spoilers ***

Someone once defined Algebra as taking something interesting and fun and removing from it everything that is interesting and fun. Well, here comes the Algebra.

Behold, the "secret"

Fact: The digit sum of any number has the same remainder as the original number when we divide it by nine. This is a consequence of our base-10 number system.

Corollary: Any number that is divisible by nine must have a digit sum that is divisible by nine. This is a common divisibility test taught in grade school.

Therefore, if we subtract the digit sum of any number from the original number we always get a multiple of nine. The digit sum of the resulting number will also be a multiple of nine.

Fact: The digit sum of any number greater than zero and less than 99 must be greater than zero and less than eighteen. This is obvious.


So, if we limit the choice of numbers to two digits (where the first digit is non-zero), the smallest possible choice is 10 and the largest is 99.

If we subtract the digit-sum, we'll get a multiple of nine that is greater than zero and less than 99.

The digit sum of that difference will be a multiple of nine that is more than zero and less than 18. Hence, the only possible result is 9.




The genius to this trick is the dividing by two. It would have been enough to "guess" the result of 9. But, to sucker the guys in by dividing by two is inspired. Because you're representing you guess as pennies, the guys automatically assume you predicted a whole-number... at which point they'll agree to anything.

[murphy1d]

Paperleight needs to move on to the ART of Scamming and let go of the math. I smell an OCD Disorder :p.

[tokenuser]

Psst. Math prof ... some somes should be sum.

[astx813]

Paperleight needs to move on to the ART of Scamming and let go of the math. I smell an OCD Disorder :p.

I'll refer you back to posts #5 and #6 on the first page of this thread...

[murphy1d]

I'll refer you back to posts #5 and #6 on the first page of this thread...

Lol...I was doing that INTENTIONALLY!
You'd be surprised how well I scored on my SAT TEST <<<<<<<<---------INTENTIONAL AGAIN!!! :D

[masherscf]

Psst. Math prof ... some somes should be sum.

Can you imagine the nightmare it was proof reading my thesis. Here's a sample.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3285/3084501101_abe31706f4_o.jpg

[metallicnitro]

I can't wait until I get my Ph.D. in Psychology so I can be like Masher with his math explanations....

[masherscf]

I can't wait until I get my Ph.D. in Psychology so I can be like Masher with his math explanations....

Pile it High and Deep... baby.

[therage800]

Can you imagine the nightmare it was proof reading my thesis. Here's a sample.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3285/3084501101_abe31706f4_o.jpg

Sylow? nilpotent? WTF language is this? Although homomorphism is a really cool word...

[shwooddotcom]

Fact: The digit sum of any number has the same remainder as the original number when we divide it by nine. This is a consequence of our base-10 number system.

Corollary: Any number that is divisible by nine must have a digit sum that is divisible by nine. This is a common divisibility test taught in grade school.

Therefore, if we subtract the digit sum of any number from the original number we always get a multiple of nine. The digit sum of the resulting number will also be a multiple of nine.

Fact: The digit sum of any number greater than zero and less than 99 must be greater than zero and less than eighteen. This is obvious.

So, if we limit the choice of numbers to two digits (where the first digit is non-zero), the smallest possible choice is 10 and the largest is 99.

If we subtract the digit-sum, we'll get a multiple of nine that is greater than zero and less than 99.

The digit sum of that difference will be a multiple of nine that is more than zero and less than 18. Hence, the only possible result is 9.

The genius to this trick is the dividing by two. It would have been enough to "guess" the result of 9. But, to sucker the guys in by dividing by two is inspired. Because you're representing you guess as pennies, the guys automatically assume you predicted a whole-number... at which point they'll agree to anything.

I. Love. This. Forum.

[dantex64]

I. Love. This. Forum.

Heh....
Oh BTW making a half-penny is really hard, you need to make a guide :)

Thanks,
/Dante

[ice0428]

I'm a 4th grade math teacher, and pulled this gag with some of the students. They loved it! I would love to do more tricks like these with my students, but I don't know where to learn them at. Is there a good magic shop in Houston?

[shwooddotcom]

I'm a 4th grade math teacher, and pulled this gag with some of the students. They loved it! I would love to do more tricks like these with my students, but I don't know where to learn them at. Is there a good magic shop in Houston?

There's frankel's costume shop downtown, and Danny's Tricks and Kicks over in Humble. What part of town are you in?

[hogiewan]

Heh....
Oh BTW making a half-penny is really hard, you need to make a guide :)

Thanks,
/Dante

I need to do this - the people I plan to scam would try to make sure I had EXACTLY half a penny. (I work with engineers)

[masherscf]

I. Love. This. Forum.

I colleague recently ushered me into his office, shut the door discretely, turned yo me and said, "I'm kind of embarrassed to have to ask you this question. I know there's a simple answer but I can't seem to figure it out. Have you ever heard of the game of 'Nim'?..."

I smiled...


I've actually been considering a Math based "magic" show of sorts as a presentation to undergraduate Math majors and interested high-school students. It was a math magic trick very similar to the trick in "pennies" that made me want to study Math in the first place.

I'm looking forward to "Scam-graduate-school"

[dosbomber]

I need to do this - the people I plan to scam would try to make sure I had EXACTLY half a penny. (I work with engineers)

lol.. "The answer is 4.5 pennies. YOU appear to have predicted 4.6 pennies!"

I guess you have to be sure you don't try this scam on any computer-geek types. 06 was perfectly legitimate as a two-digit number to me when I was watching the show. It's between 01 and 100 and contains exactly two digits (unlike 100). Maybe just asking for "any two digit number" without bringing up a range limit would be less problematic.

[masherscf]

I think once any fraction of a penny that even remotely resembles one-half appears... the guys know they're f*ked.

[ice0428]

There's frankel's costume shop downtown, and Danny's Tricks and Kicks over in Humble. What part of town are you in?

I've been to Frankel's once, didn't realize it doubled as a magic shop. I'm actually on the west side, almost to Katy. Thanks for the heads up on Frankel's and Danny's Tricks and Kicks.

[shwooddotcom]

I've been to Frankel's once, didn't realize it doubled as a magic shop. I'm actually on the west side, almost to Katy. Thanks for the heads up on Frankel's and Danny's Tricks and Kicks.

I grew up in west houston, just off of mason road. Went to katy high school. One of my first pro gigs was at the black-eyed-pea restaurant on mason rd. (shhh! don't tell anyone!)

[ice0428]

I grew up in west houston, just off of mason road. Went to katy high school. One of my first pro gigs was at the black-eyed-pea restaurant on mason rd. (shhh! don't tell anyone!)

lol awesome! Yeah that's around my neck of the woods. I'm actually right off clay and fry.

[retz]

This trick is great! It's yet to fail for me, people get so confident that you've made a mistake somewhere, that they've got the upper hand... Genius.

[vanhammer]

I got a few episodes behind on my Scam School... I guess ill get a D- for the class.

Anyway, I tried the penny trick today twice and all I can say is DANG SOME PEOPLE ARE BAD AT MATH! Jeez. How simple can it be??? Ha ha. One person divided 9 by 2 and got 3.41 and the other person got 4.1!!!! WTF???

Hopefully tomorrow I can pull this on someone with slightly higher math skills cause im sure its a winner.

Im definately not the smartest person in the world by any means, but im pretty sure I can divide 9 by 2 without a calculator and get the correct answer.

[deanlol]

Since you're doing a prediction just say "pick any two digit number between 1 and 100." pause and then say "somewhere in between just to make it interesting." This makes no sense but it works every time.

Here is my favorite math trick. I usually have the answer in my pocket or written on my arm.
Pick a three digit number, but just to make it interesting, make sure each digit is different.
Now reverse that number so if you chose 123 for example, reverse it to 321.
Subtract the smaller number from the larger number.
Now take your solution (if you got 99 put a 0 in front of it) and reverse it.
Now ADD those two numbers together.
Post your answer.

[murphy1d]

Post your answer.
642
246
396
693
1089

WOW...that's amazing!! (waits for it)