Why leave deaf people out of the loop?

[winxptwker]

Don't like me? :( Why?

I am asking because:

Why don't you make it easier for deaf people to understand the videos put on there. I am deaf and am trying to learn and enjoy just like you hearing-people.

Games have captions for a very good reason - to increase potential customers (there are actually about 5 million deaf people in the world.

I have enjoyed playing Half Life 2 and Halo 2 and understood the storyline thanks very much to captions being available.

So why don't you make your videos captioned for the benefit of deaf or hard-of hearing people like me :(

I was trying to understand how to do things in photoshop watching PixelPerfect but due to my speech-recieving problem and hearing, I am very stuck and struggling to work out how the guy in the video did things. I try to watch him do things but....what shortcut keys did he press, what did he click when the camera was facing him and not at the screen.

[kowgod]

The only thing I can think of right now that prevents this from being easily solved is, frankly, money.

I would hope that as pod and videocasting becomes more and more profitable, the technology will naturally catch up with the demand, and things like closed captioning will start to become commonplace.

I'm sorry that you're unable to enjoy the content to it's fullest right now. I'm sure it's not intentional.

Just curious, and in a non-condescending way, are you currently watching any podcasts with closed captioning, or something similar? Would you mind pointing them out to us?

edit: To clarify what I meant, I know it's currently possible to add closed captioning to any video. What I meant by technology catching up was more along the lines of it becoming easier to do, and therefore cheaper to implement. Right now, of course, closed captions could be added, but it would most likely have to be done manually, which requires quite a bit of a person's time. And we all know, time is money. That's where what I was saying comes in, as it becomes more profitable, and easier, I hope it would be much more common.

[magunwarrior]

That would be a nice thing to have for our hearing impaired friends :)

[tokenuser]

Don't like me? :( Why?

I am asking because:

Why don't you make it easier for deaf people to understand the videos put on there. I am deaf and am trying to learn and enjoy just like you hearing-people.

Games have captions for a very good reason - to increase potential customers (there are actually about 5 million deaf people in the world.

I have enjoyed playing Half Life 2 and Halo 2 and understood the storyline thanks very much to captions being available.

So why don't you make your videos captioned for the benefit of deaf or hard-of hearing people like me :(

I was trying to understand how to do things in photoshop watching PixelPerfect but due to my speech-recieving problem and hearing, I am very stuck and struggling to work out how the guy in the video did things. I try to watch him do things but....what shortcut keys did he press, what did he click when the camera was facing him and not at the screen.Not wanting to make light of your disability - but ...

Games with captions? There aren't that many, and a lot were Japanese translations where overlaying English text was easier than recording new voices.

5 million deaf people in the world SOUNDS like a great market, but how many English speaking deaf geeks are there? Is there a market? I know many shows have the "clsed captioning provided by ..." type sponsorship on TV. That implies that this type of information costs $$$$ to provide. I'd did a quick lookup .. in the US, 0.1% of the population under 45 are deaf (2.5% over 65).

If you assume DN has a weekly download of 100000 (guesstimate becaue it is a nice number to work with), and that the deaf demographics fit the 0.1% population model, then there are approximately 100 people who are deaf and try to wacth Diggnation (or other shows).

I just went googling ... adding captions to shows cost about $5/minute for scripted content, $7/minute for unscripted (Rev3 content is pretty much unscripted). Take Diggnation at about 50min per show ... and that takes you to $350/show (plus the time taken to turn it around) to add closed captioning.

Now - you might say that that is only $3.50/per show/deaf user based on demographical data and population projections, but in reality ... how many deaf people do want to watch this type of content? If it was accessible, it might be more ... but I think it is currently an untapped market.

As an aside, as of 1/1/06 the FCC required all US TV programming to be available in closed captioning. Noone regulates content on the internet, and until they do, I just can't see this taking off.

[masherscf]

Is there en elementary way of including closed captions in the exiting video streams?

[crumbles]

Um, this is really easy guys. All someone has to do is make a text file, and put the time stamp before the text, and media player will display the caption automatically.

Here's a whole thing about it:
http://www.divxmovies.com/subtitles/

[masherscf]

Um, this is really easy guys. All someone has to do is make a text file, and put the time stamp before the text, and media player will display the caption automatically.

Here's a whole thing about it:
http://www.divxmovies.com/subtitles/

In that case, I see no reason why they're not captioning the Revision 3 releases.

[klitzy]

Um, this is really easy guys. All someone has to do is make a text file, and put the time stamp before the text, and media player will display the caption automatically.

Here's a whole thing about it:
http://www.divxmovies.com/subtitles/

I think I have found a job for Crumbles...

Or I would do it.

[tokenuser]

In that case, I see no reason why they're not captioning the Revision 3 releases.One word ... transcription. Its unscripted, so someone needs to transcribe the episode. Unless someone is going to volunteer their time that costs $$$.

[masherscf]

One word ... transcription. Its unscripted, so someone needs to transcribe the episode. Unless someone is going to volunteer their time that costs $$$.

That shoudn't be such a chore. But, it is one more step that has to take place before release. Perhaps the caption file could be released afterword. Also, maybe there are non-profits that do this sort of work pro-bono as a service to the community.

[kowgod]

One word ... transcription. Its unscripted, so someone needs to transcribe the episode. Unless someone is going to volunteer their time that costs $$$.

This is exactly what I was referring to in my edit to my original post above:


edit: To clarify what I meant, I know it's currently possible to add closed captioning to any video. What I meant by technology catching up was more along the lines of it becoming easier to do, and therefore cheaper to implement. Right now, of course, closed captions could be added, but it would most likely have to be done manually, which requires quite a bit of a person's time. And we all know, time is money. That's where what I was saying comes in, as it becomes more profitable, and easier, I hope it would be much more common.


It will happen, someday. Give it time for the market to grow and technology to catch up.

[crumbles]

That shoudn't be such a chore. But, it is one more step that has to take place before release. Perhaps the caption file could be released afterword. Also, maybe there are non-profits that do this sort of work pro-bono as a service to the community.
Yes, it could be released after. It has nothing to do with how the video is encoded. All it takes is someone willing to type out in a text file:

00:01:01 = "This weeks episode of diggnation is brought to you by..."
00:05:00 = "Crumbles for the subtitles."
00:07:00 = "Because being deaf is being cool."

You get the idea. Then, someone just has to link to the .sub file for everyone to download.

[rabidbadger]

The easy and quick way to do this is to videotape a sign language interpreter and inset the vid into the video in a little box. This would take about the same time as it takes to watch the video. The interpreters are all volunteers and love to do this stuff. All Rev3 has to do is ask.

I worked at a museum where I managed the "booth" during public lectures and all someone had to do (with a little advance warning) was to ask if there could be a signer, and, Poof, we had one.

And this would be great PR for Rev3 if they did this. They could be the first major league vidcast with hearing impaired versions. They would get on NPR in a flash.

Also. It's the right thing to do.

[lefrenzy]

The easy and quick way to do this is to videotape a sign language interpreter and inset the vid into the video in a little box. This would take about the same time as it takes to watch the video. The interpreters are all volunteers and love to do this stuff. All Rev3 has to do is ask.

I worked at a museum where I managed the "booth" during public lectures and all someone had to do (with a little advance warning) was to ask if there could be a signer, and, Poof, we had one.

And this would be great PR for Rev3 if they did this. They could be the first major league vidcast with hearing impaired versions. They would get on NPR in a flash.

Also. It's the right thing to do.

great idea!

[winxptwker]

Games with captions? There aren't that many

You underestimate the number of deaf geeks. Quite lots of computer geeks are deaf out there. Companies has been pushed by many of these deaf people to include captions into games and look what's happening...almost every new games have captions these days. Here's a very good site deciated to a database of games that have captions and reviews only for deaf people:

http://www.deafgamers.com/index.htm

How would you like it if we only release videos that only shows sign language with some exciting information. Can you sign? Then you will know how it feels to try to understand these videos if you cover your ears with earplugs and try to watch the videos. Oh well, yeah I can hear (with hearing aids in) but I have trouble decrpyting what is said.

[casework]

I think some people on here are underestimating the size of the deaf community. Just going by pure numbers, it may not seem like a lot of people, but take the time to check out any deaf social events in your area, and you'll probably find a lot more people than you expected. And ultimately, anything that makes Revision 3 more accessible is a good thing. I understand there are logistical concerns with making something like this happen, but I don't think it is something that should be seen as in the distant future. As rabidbadger mentioned, this would be a great move for Revision 3 as a whole. Don't sit back and wait for someone else to do it so they can make it easy for you... take on the challenge and it will mean great prosperity and publicity for your company.

[tokenuser]

To quote what I said above ...

5 million deaf people in the world SOUNDS like a great market, but how many English speaking deaf geeks are there? Is there a market? I know many shows have the "clsed captioning provided by ..." type sponsorship on TV. That implies that this type of information costs $$$$ to provide. I'd did a quick lookup .. in the US, 0.1% of the population under 45 are deaf (2.5% over 65).

If you assume DN has a weekly download of 100000 (guesstimate becaue it is a nice number to work with), and that the deaf demographics fit the 0.1% population model, then there are approximately 100 people who are deaf and try to wacth Diggnation (or other shows).

0.1% of the US population under 45 are deaf (and that encompasses total deafness, through to people that can hear with assistance). Not a huge demographic to target, having volunteers create *.sub files for the video would be great - I wonder if voice recognition software is up to the task?

[casework]

I realize that seems like a small number, but I really believe you're underestimating the size of the deaf community. Perhaps winxptwker can back me up on this. And regardless, it doesn't change the fact that this would be something amazing for Revision 3 to do, whether it is for 20 people, or 20,000 people.

[tokenuser]

I realize that seems like a small number, but I really believe you're underestimating the size of the deaf community. Perhaps winxptwker can back me up on this. And regardless, it doesn't change the fact that this would be something amazing for Revision 3 to do, whether it is for 20 people, or 20,000 people.No argument - just quoting US Bureau of Stats based on census data. 0.1% ... or 1 in 1000 are legally classified as deaf in the US. That is nudging 300000 US citizens (the number would be higher if you add in the population over 65 who are deaf as well).

Having subtitled shows via *.sub files or other means would be great.

Who is going to volunteer to do it?

[rabidbadger]

"You underestimate the number of deaf geeks. Quite lots of computer geeks are deaf out there"

I'm just talking out my butt here, but this makes some sense when you consider that so much tech work is "text based" and / or graphics based. So much of the tech jobs use code, email, IM, charts, graphics, websites... Communication is mostly covered with text or graphics. If a deaf person wanted to be a doctor or lawyer, (and I'm sure there are good hearing impaired doctors and lawyers out there) it would be a lot tougher because of all the interpersonal communication necessary.

Case in point, this young man (http://www.artofadambetts.com/weblog/) is making a name for himself.

And deaf kids would gravitate to the computer / internet earlier and more often for it's ease of communication. So I think a larger percentage of deaf kids might be into tech than the others...

In fact, way back when BBS was pretty much "the internet" our city had several bars that had BBS get-togethers for the deaf users to meet each other. Of course Rochester has a large hearing impaired population due to a really good school for the deaf, but that is most probably what helped spread the word(s).

[rowlodge]

i was listening on my tiny speakers from the mac, if alex cracks up from something i usaully dont know what kevin mumbled.....i think,"what was so funny?"

[dicknixon]

Games with captions? There aren't that many, and a lot were Japanese translations where overlaying English text was easier than recording new voices.

Most games I've played do indeed have captions. They just need to be turned on from the options menu rather than starting automatically.

[ariastar]

Likely it's the cost-factor and that the market will be very, very tiny right now. It may not make financial sense to close-caption the show for 100 users. I'm sure there's be a larger potential market among Spanish or Indian speakers. In an ideal world, every single thing would be available to every single person, but it's not financially feasible.

At any rate, I shot of an e-mail to see what I can find out about the future.

[originx]

Likely it's the cost-factor and that the market will be very, very tiny right now. It may not make financial sense to close-caption the show for 100 users. I'm sure there's be a larger potential market among Spanish or Indian speakers. In an ideal world, every single thing would be available to every single person, but it's not financially feasible.

At any rate, I shot of an e-mail to see what I can find out about the future.


You sent an email to the future? Holy shit! Bust out with the email addy to the future!! I want to see when the Dodgers are going to win the World Series again!!

[tokenuser]

You sent an email to the future? Holy shit! Bust out with the email addy to the future!! I want to see when the Dodgers are going to win the World Series again!!I sent out the email, and got a response back!!! That was fast!!!

The Tokyo Dodgers beat the New Orleans Mariners in 7 games in the best of 13 series to win the 2087 World Cup, only to have the title stripped from them for using illegal zero-g trainging sessions, and hyperbaric hyper stims.

Win some, lose some.

[ariastar]

Ah, gotta love dummies who can't read. :) I said ABOUT the future.

[rabidbadger]

Umm... All e-mails are sent to the future. If you think about it. :cool:

[ariastar]

Umm... All e-mails are sent to the future. If you think about it. :cool:

My e-mails are sent to mail clients for people to read. I don't want the damned future reading my e-mails!

[klitzy]

My e-mails are sent to mail clients for people to read. I don't want the damned future reading my e-mails!

Maybe he was talking about......

http://www.futureme.org/

[originx]

The Future called me on my cell. Seems two dudes from San Dimas are up to some hijinks again.

hahaahahahah

[ariastar]

That site's awesome.

[originx]

That site's awesome.



To which site are you referring?

[ariastar]

Official word is that they'd like to do closed-captioning, and will do so when funds permit, perhaps next year.

[klitzy]

Official word is that they'd like to do closed-captioning, and will do so when funds permit, perhaps next year.

Right...Just like Ctrl-Alt-Chicken is going to start being released regularly.

*Klitzy puts a "I didnt just say that" look on his face*

[ariastar]

Right...Just like Ctrl-Alt-Chicken is going to start being released regularly.

*Klitzy puts a "I didnt just say that" look on his face*

Well, it came from someone kinda sorta very high up.

[casework]

Kinda like Jay saying The Broken isn't dead.

[ariastar]

Kinda like Jay saying The Broken isn't dead.

It's not yet dead. Dead is when it's officially over, like Geekdrome. Anything else is just a hiatus. TB is cool.

[klitzy]

It's not yet dead. Dead is when it's officially over, like Geekdrome. Anything else is just a hiatus. TB is cool.

TheBroken is dead....It was cool....Now its dead.

[casework]

Ah, ok. Hiatus. I'll have to keep in mind if I happen to start my own company that it's alright - you know, not dead yet - as long as my products are all just on hiatus.

[ariastar]

Yeah, it's just a break. Sometimes for a while, sometimes it ends up permanent. And then it's dead.

[mikec]

Hey, bringing this back from the dead because my lady has a hearing issue as well and she can't enjoy the shows that this company produces.

You, you site and your SPONSORS are losing a possible customer with her not watching the shows or visiting this site.

When revision3 was a smaller company I could see them not having the resources to do this but now??

BTW, it could even be open captioning.

[masherscf]

Hey, bringing this back from the dead because my lady has a hearing issue as well and she can't enjoy the shows that this company produces.

You, you site and your SPONSORS are losing a possible customer with her not watching the shows or visiting this site.

When revision3 was a smaller company I could see them not having the resources to do this but now??

BTW, it could even be open captioning.

I prefer "necro-posting" to starting a new thread. Bravo!

[tokenuser]

This type of captioning is done all the time by the anime fan sites.

I can't speak for Rev3, but suspect that they don't have the resources for doing open captioning (or alternate language subtitles), but can't see how they would object to individuals banding together and creating the caption files themselves.

[comhcinc]

This type of captioning is done all the time by the anime fan sites.

I can't speak for Rev3, but suspect that they don't have the resources for doing open captioning (or alternate language subtitles), but can't see how they would object to individuals banding together and creating the caption files themselves.
that's what i am thinking. this sounds kinda mean but i don't think this is big enough deaf audience to justify spend the money.

then again i could be complete wrong. if you are really interested in this mikec you should do some research and show the company that the market is worth going after.

[masherscf]

that's what i am thinking. this sounds kinda mean but i don't think this is big enough deaf audience to justify spend the money.

then again i could be complete wrong. if you are really interested in this mikec you should do some research and show the company that the market is worth going after.

I'm sure they could outsource for not too much. Especially if many hearing disabled people asked for it.

[comhcinc]

I'm sure they could outsource for not too much. Especially if many hearing disabled people asked for it.
i have a picture of a guy in India trying to translate Diggnation

[masherscf]

i have a picture of a guy in India trying to translate Diggnation

That's not quite what I meant...funny image though.

But, there must be places who's business is cross captioning.

[scienceking]

English subtitles would do two things:

1) Allow deaf people or people with hearing impediments to watch the shows.

2) Allow people with poor English skills to watch the shows. I can't understand Japanese broadcasts nearly at all, but I can read subtitles in Japanese pretty OK. I have a feeling it works the other way around, too. Also, with English transcriptions, you could at least run an automated translator for other languages.

It could be as easy as asking 10 fans to help, and have each of them transcribe like 4 minutes of an episode a week. You can even double up to make sure it gets done. Give them a free early download of Diggnation or something for the time, if even that.

[mikec]

that's what i am thinking. this sounds kinda mean but i don't think this is big enough deaf audience to justify spend the money.

then again i could be complete wrong. if you are really interested in this mikec you should do some research and show the company that the market is worth going after.

Not trying to sound snotty but it isn't MY job to find this out, it is Louderback's or someone else's at that company. BTW, how do you know how many hearing impaired there are? Many people ignore IPTV because of the lack of captioning, therefore they aren't on this board to speak up.

I find it amazing that a thread about something like this has had no official response from anyone from Rev3, excluding moderators.

[ariastar]

English subtitles would do two things:

...

2) Allow people with poor English skills to watch the shows. I can't understand Japanese broadcasts nearly at all, but I can read subtitles in Japanese pretty OK. I have a feeling it works the other way around, too. ...

When Nick and I watch movies, when possible, we have the subtitles on for him. Not because he has poor English skills, but because reading it easier for him than hearing and understanding a language that is something like his sixth or seventh.

[ariastar]

Not trying to sound snotty but it isn't MY job to find this out, it is Louderback's or someone else's at that company. BTW, how do you know how many hearing impaired there are? Many people ignore IPTV because of the lack of captioning, therefore they aren't on this board to speak up.

I find it amazing that a thread about something like this has had no official response from anyone from Rev3, excluding moderators.

Much earlier in the thread Token did the figures. At the percentage of hearing-impaired people with the number of estimated viewers, the number would be extremely small.

They'd probably be better off translating the show into Chinese. I'm sure there are thousands more who speak only Chinese who'd watch the show than deaf people. For you, CC'ing in English is more pressing for you personally, but looking at it from an unbiased stand point, CC'ing in Chinese or Russian (and I don't mean because of Nick, but because of how many Russians are in the tech industry), etc., would make more financial sense and increase their viewership a lot more.

[comhcinc]

Not trying to sound snotty but it isn't MY job to find this out, it is Louderback's or someone else's at that company.
well you are the one asking the company for this service. you are asking them to spend more to provide you with mostly free content. To me, if you are not willing to do a little leg work then it can't be that big of a deal to you.

BTW, how do you know how many hearing impaired there are? i never said i knew, just that i thought the number is low. after you asked i did a quick websearch and found this website (http://fookembug.wordpress.com/2007/05/30/the-best-current-estimate-of-the-total-us-deaf-population/). those are some very low numbers, but i still think if someone is will prove the market is there, the company would be willing to do it.

I find it amazing that a thread about something like this has had no official response from anyone from Rev3, excluding moderators.
that is a scary thought. the idea of a company issueing official responses to everything said on a message board.

[tokenuser]

i never said i knew, just that i thought the number is low. after you asked i did a quick websearch and found this website (http://fookembug.wordpress.com/2007/05/30/the-best-current-estimate-of-the-total-us-deaf-population/). those are some very low numbers, but i still think if someone is will prove the market is there, the company would be willing to do it.Something to remember about numbers on that website are that they are for the TOTAL population. According to research I did previously, in the US 0.1% of the population under 45 (closer to Rev3 target demographics) are deaf compared to 2.5% over 65. In the numbers I saw, "deaf" encompassed the full range of people from total deafness to those requiring hearing aids.

Not to diminish the importance of the problem, but its not a huge audience. I'd suspect that the market for OGG encoding would be greater.

[danielus]

(there are actually about 5 million deaf people in the world.

Probably there is more than 5 million in the world. Approximately 28 million Americans are reported to have severe to profound hearing loss, and that's just in the USA.

[comhcinc]

both of those figures sound way off

[ariastar]

Probably there is more than 5 million in the world. Approximately 28 million Americans are reported to have severe to profound hearing loss, and that's just in the USA.

In a country with a reported population of about 300 million, 28 million is too high. Don't cite stats that outrageous without something to back it up.

[heyseuss]

Maybe he was talking about......

http://www.futureme.org/

OMG. So cute.


Dear FutureMe,
I am Alex Cino. But I am the Alex Cino from 2003, the elven eyar old Alex. I hope you are okay. I love you

2003 Alex

(written Mon Sep 29, 2003, sent Wed Sep 29, 2004)

[radzack]

I sort of know what this feels like. I was in a wheelchair for 9 months after my accident. There are so many places I couldnt go because they simply were not accessible. Often it was very hard on me. It really sucks when you are held back by something you can't help. Same idea with this show. I know there is no regulation laws for rev3 to have closed captioning, but it would be nice if their was an alternate version that could be downloaded, or a text file that could be read along with the video.

I would gladly donate my time to help transcribe a large portion of rev3 shows if asked.

[ariastar]

I sort of know what this feels like. I was in a wheelchair for 9 months after my accident. There are so many places I couldnt go because they simply were not accessible. Often it was very hard on me. It really sucks when you are held back by something you can't help. Same idea with this show. I know there is no regulation laws for rev3 to have closed captioning, but it would be nice if their was an alternate version that could be downloaded, or a text file that could be read along with the video.

I would gladly donate my time to help transcribe a large portion of rev3 shows if asked.

You do know it's next to impossible to make all things available to all people, right?

Instead of waiting to be asked, why don't you ask Jay if you could transcribe one of the shows and post it somewhere that Rev3 endorses?

[brundlefly]

Oh. My. God.

You guys are killing me here. Let me explain... The thread title caught my eye, and I read every single post, so I am commenting from an informed standpoint.

The original question, as posed by a person who is deaf, is why Rev3 does not make it's content more easily accessible for people who do have complete or severe hearing problems. The implied question is "what can we do about it to remedy this situation?"

Within a few posts, the conversation completely and totally drifted off topic, and you guys were so busy re-inventing the wheel that the question has still, after 6 pages, not been addressed in a way that really presents a viable solution. Money has been discussed and then a lot of talk on statistics and yadda yadda yadda. All pissing on the wheels of progress.

The first thing that popped into my mind when I read the post was "Why not offer this person a job transcribing episodes?" Happily, I saw that someone posted that same thought a few posts in. But, that's not really a viable option because this person can't hear the episodes to transcribe them. Even if this person was one hell of a fast typist or stenographer, this person (or someone in the same situation) would have to be physically present on set to lip read, and that's not even taking into account the editing aspect of outtakes and whatnot. Not only that, but as it has been pointed out, the technology for a podcast to embed closed captioning capability is, I assume, rough at best. I have no knowledge of the technology, but I assume it's a pain to do, if it exists, and probably expensive, as pointed out by Kowgod.

The idea of a text based pop-up of sorts with a timestamp is not a bad idea, but overall, I think it would look terrible and GREATLY detract from the overall viewing experience, which if you think about it, becomes very important when it's all you've got.

I actually thought on this over dinner this evening and I think I have a viable solution. Revision3 has officially posted that the company is hiring. Why not hire someone who's sole job and function at Rev3 is to watch episodes of all the different shows and transcribe them to a text file. Instead of even worrying about the embedded close captioning technology, just do it manually, with editing (much like the way every show has e-mail addresses and the GoDaddy codes pop up near the bottom), and release episodes for hearing impaired persons on their own RSS channel feed address. So, you'd have the X-vid feeds (large and small) like now, but with a third feed for X-vid HI (hearing impaired), and so forth and so on for the other video compressions.

Yes, I know that this would be time consuming from an editing standpoint. Also, Rev3 will probably need more servers allocated for this. But for an largely independent, progressive, and growing company like Rev3 to go ahead and acknowledge the hearing impaired community and include them would, I think, drastically increase the overall popularity of the Rev3 community as a whole and get a LOT of positive exposure and attention. Not only is it a good move from a business standpoint, but dammit, it's just a purely NICE thing to do and good karma all around. I know that Rev3 wouldn't get a large cross-section (demographically by comparison) of hearing impaired people by doing this, but let's not forget that there a lot of times and reasons why you might want to watch a Rev3 show with no sound. Like at work. Or while listening to music. I think a lot of people who have the ability to hear would also like this option.

So, Rev3 pays CacheFly a bit more for serving and hires 1 or 2 extra people to do the transcribing and editing. Maybe all shows get pushed back a day from their usual release schedules for the hearing impaired feeds. Somehow, I don't think you'll get too much negative feedback from the deaf community because they get their Diggnation on Monday morning instead of Sunday morning. These are small prices to pay for the greater good, I think.

And hey... I'll just go ahead and throw this out there, seriously. If somebody at Rev3 thinks this is a good idea, I'd (quite seriously) drop everything and move to California to fill the position, no questions asked. I love Rev3 and what the company does and the fact that it's innovative and progressive and just downright filled with content that is more relevant to my life than whatever network TV is offering. It's the kind of company I'd want to support and be able to go to sleep at night feeling okay in my soul being a part of. (Sorry, I had to self plug... I would really like to work at Rev3 and I really don't fit the requirements of any of the officially listed jobs.)

[masherscf]

I think most popular players have a capibilty of displaying closed captions in the video window. I know that Quicktme does. Indeed, adding captions is only a matter of syncing a transcript. Actual re-editing is not neccesary. The uncaptioned videos could be released as normal and a captioned version could be released later. Actually hiring an employee to do this is probably unessesary since there are services that perform closed captioning. For fee that is probably less than a dedicated staff member, the process could be done entirely and seemlessly.

I think that Revision3 should just do it and not wait for a significant demand.

[tokenuser]

I think most popular players have a capibilty of displaying closed captions in the video window. I know that Quicktme does. Indeed, adding captions is only a matter of syncing a transcript. Actual re-editing is not neccesary. The uncaptioned videos could be released as normal and a captioned version could be released later. Actually hiring an employee to do this is probably unessesary since there are services that perform closed captioning. For fee that is probably less than a dedicated staff member, the process could be done entirely and seemlessly.

I think that Revision3 should just do it and not wait for a significant demand.

From my message of almost 12 months ago ...

I just went googling ... adding captions to shows cost about $5/minute for scripted content, $7/minute for unscripted (Rev3 content is pretty much unscripted). Take Diggnation at about 50min per show ... and that takes you to $350/show (plus the time taken to turn it around) to add closed captioning.

No, its not a huge expense for one show ... but it would be something that would warrant hiring a new staff member if they did it for all shows. Perfect job for a stay at home mom to do part time.

[masherscf]

No, its not a huge expense for one show ... but it would be something that would warrant hiring a new staff member if they did it for all shows. Perfect job for a stay at home mom to do part time.

See, here I was thinking about adding a new staff member and actually provide them with benfits and a living wage. How liberal of me.

The $5 a minute figure changes the argument. I suppose if Revision3 captions five hours a week of content, that would cost more than $75,000 a year to out-source.

[brundlefly]

On the Rev3 frontpage, not counting the expired shows, there are 11 current shows being published. Not to be politically incorrect, but let's not count the two music-based shows, because there's really not much point in close captioning music based shows, I think. That leaves us with 9 shows. At a rate of 1 episode per week, per show, that's 36 shows. For the sake of argument, I'm gonna say the average length is 45 minutes per show. Diggnation and TRS run a bit longer sometimes, but Pixel Perfect offsets that. At a rate of $7/minute for an unscripted show, that's a monthly fee of $11,340.

Now, I'm not a math-a-magician, but... Rev3 could hire two full time employees at a salary of $60k/yr -or- 4 full time employees for $30k/yr for cheaper. Plus, they would double as general errand folk when not transcribing and editing, doing such things as fetching coffee, reminding Sarah Lane to record sound, and feeding/bathing Martin Sargent.

Not arguing, just crunching numbers. Oh, FYI.... Rev3 starts sponsorship at $10,000, so I hear. You'd really only need 1 more sponsor to pull it off. Seriously Rev3.... my idea or outsource it out, but either way, provide these folks with some closed captioning. Or teach Sarah Lane sign language and have her superimposed in the corner of every episode to teach her a lesson about recording sound. ;-)

[masherscf]

Computing a 45 minutes average is a little high. Many of the shows are short form, between 10-20 minutes.

Actually, hiring a sign interpreter makes sense to me. But, I've worked with sign interpreters in my class though. It takes two interpreters to cover a 100 minute class. It's not an easy job. I think that could be more expensive than closed captioning because of the skill level involved.

[tokenuser]

HOW MANY CLOSED CAPTION PODCASTS ARE OUT THERE?

Sorry - shouting and speaking slowly are the usual repsonses when you find out that a.) someone is deaf, or b.) they do not come from the US (I have been told that I speak real good English - fscking idiots :rolleyes: ).

This could be an opportunity for Rev3 to set the bar higher, but I still suspect that the market is too small for it to be of any more use than a public service.

[masherscf]

This could be an opportunity for Rev3 to set the bar higher, but I still suspect that the market is too small for it to be of any more use than a public service.

One the other hand, I think arguments about market share are completely pointless. The fact is that, for any business (besides Rascal (tm) scooters), only a small fraction of their customer base is going to have accessibility issues. People never install elevators, ramps, brail plaques and TTY machines in the pursuit of high profits. Businesses have always found that excluding those who don't have natural access to a particular service is an acceptable loss. I chaffe at the label of "political correctness." I think it's just good manners.

[mikec]

The idea of a signer is good BUT many who have an impairment do not know sign language. A person who is totally deaf usually goes and gets trained. A person may have 25-35% capability but not be able to understand each word. In life they can ask someone to repeat them self but many players do not have great control to stop and jog back a few seconds.

Again, I find it interesting that there is no official Rev3 staffer who has commented on this. There are threads all over this forum that various staff members have posted on but not this one.

Brundlefly, thanks.

[heyseuss]

Actually hiring an employee to do this is probably unessesary since there are services that perform closed captioning. For fee that is probably less than a dedicated staff member,

Most probably not. You might save money by handing the service a transcript, but then you'd still need to come up with a transcript from somewhere.

I think that Revision3 should just do it and not wait for a significant demand.

Most definitely.

There are PLENTY of times where I would like to have had the option. Sometimes words just get dropped in the mix or a host is scratching their mic while they talk, etc . . . plus I could introduce my deaf sister to rev3.

[heyseuss]

The idea of a signer is good BUT many who have an impairment do not know sign language. A person who is totally deaf usually goes and gets trained. A person may have 25-35% capability but not be able to understand each word. In life they can ask someone to repeat them self but many players do not have great control to stop and jog back a few seconds.

In real life, most that are born fully deaf, or become deaf, or only have partial ability, read lips. My sister uses both hearing aids and reads lips, but there are many instances where she can't use either.

One other decent reason for Rev3 to do it is to lead the way. Education and information is what most of the shows are about anyway right. Take it to the next level Rev3, raise the bar another notch, provide the example that should be what other podcasts should be reaching for. REGULATE and EDUCATE. . . unless theres no more money left after flying Marty to Wazoo to look at a piece of petrified poo that resembles Ernest Borgnine.

[mase007]

My girlfriend is partially deaf in the left ear 85% of lost hearing and 100% in right ear pretty much fully deaf over all and we can't enjoy any of the shows together here at revision3 most of the time i have translate by sign language well the show is going on witch means I watch it twice once for myself and then another time for my girlfriend witch is losing the enjoyment for me and for her

I don't understand why revision3 is being so difficult to add subtitles I remember the first time me and my girlfriend enjoyed a movie that we legally downloading movie with english subtitles and spoken english it was the greats feeling ever to be able to share enjoyment with a loved one for the first time


The next time you watch diggnation or whatever revision3 program you watch turn off the sound and see what it's like to be deaf and not get any of the enjoyment out of the program

maybe WE hearing people need to stand up for the hearing impaired. Just like when the community did to get The Revision3 gazette for free

[radzack]

I've said it once and I will say it again.

I can relate in a way, and would be more than happily do whatever I can to make this work. It should be done and is the right thing to do.

[brundlefly]

I'm with Radzack (and a few others).... if Rev3 wants to start addressing this problem, I am willing to help out however I can.

[tokenuser]

Diggnation = 48min
GigaOm = 20min
TRS = 45min
Tekzilla = 37min
Systm = 16min
Infected = 30min
Webdrifter = 14min
Pixel Perfect = (n/a)
R3G = 10min
==================
Total = 220min
==================

Yes, I know Pixel Perfect and XLR8R aren't included - I don't have the current episodes downloaded, so my numbers will be even higher if they are included.

$7/minute x 220min/week x 52weeks = $80K (OK, its a little over that).

Now, Rev3 are on Angel funding at the moment. Thats a tough time of make or break. I have been through that myself, and we did not succeed. Sure, there is sponsorship and membership, but I suspect that money is going to other causes at the moment - building out a studio, fitting it out with lights, HD Cameras on dollies, control room, wardrobe for Martin, salary for Joey, etc.

Subtitles are a noble idea ... but the realities of business are such that when you are in startup mode, you need to stretch your resources as far as possible to start getting a positive cash flow, and I suspect that subtitles are not particulalry high on the priority list to get there.

While a grassroot effort to subtitle Rev3 shows like anime fansubs is a great idea, if people are so keen to see this happen, then why not do it yourselves?

Go grab a copy of VirtualDub and the Vobsub plugin and go for it.

Boycotting Rev3 will do nothing - not enough people will care passionately enough about subtitles for it to have any effect ... but building a grassroot subtiting effort (and translation as well I guess) will get noticed.