Who here is reading 'Hulk'? And why? [Archive]

johnvferrigno

12-28-2008, 10:14 AM

I have found myself a bit confused. I think that not only is Hulk by Jeph Loeb the worst book of 2008, it has to be in the running as the worst book of all time. I read issue 9, and when Hulk turned into Wendihulk, I looked at my wife and said "this may be the worst thing I have ever read in my life." Yet, not only do I buy this book every time it comes out, but I excitedly read it first.

I can not figure this out. Is this book so horrible that it passed horrible and went to brilliant? I know everybody trashes this book, but it is consistently a top seller. According to the new previews catalogue, Hulk was the #3 selling book for November.

Here is my question: How many of you read this book, and if you do, WHY do you read it? Is it to watch the train wreck every month? Is it just to find out who Rulk is? or do you honestly enjoy it? Or does marvel put some kind of addictive property in the ink? Are there subliminal messages in the horrible dialogue that subconsciously force you to buy it?

I need answers! My sanity may depend on it.

optimus187prime

12-28-2008, 01:15 PM

I dont buy the book but I would mind reading it. It is one of those reality show deals, you know it is horrible but you want to know what happens. I read the first two issues and it was soo bad, but I think the trade is gonna get a purchase or a borders read.

gobo

12-28-2008, 01:35 PM

neb

12-28-2008, 01:55 PM

Wendihulk? Major ughs.

My thought: if McGuiness didn't draw this book, no one would buy it. I think a lot of people buying it are buying it for the art, and the art may also enhance the enjoyment of what is clearly...a crazy ass piece of writing.

gobo

12-28-2008, 02:25 PM

Am I really the only person who enjoys movies like Jesus Christ Vampire Hunter?

zombox

12-28-2008, 04:03 PM

I'm still reading it it. The art is really good. The story is appalling. I have, pretty much, every Hulk issue dating back to '77. So... that's really why.

And, as bad as its been, it still doesn't suck like the Flash and Kids book did. That was definitely the worst mainstream book this year.

euchre0

12-29-2008, 07:18 PM

I almost bought the last two issues for the Art Adams art. Almost.

neb

12-29-2008, 10:50 PM

Am I really the only person who enjoys movies like Jesus Christ Vampire Hunter?

This statement may be filled with truth...although, if drunk enough, I may enjoy it.

wood

12-30-2008, 04:40 PM

We discussed this very topic a few weeks ago and it's a conundrum. So many people openly bash the book yet it's consistently one of the top-selling books. It makes you wonder if the forum/podcasting community is that disconnected from the "mainstream" buyer; I suspect not.

Ultimately what I think we're seeing is a combination of continuity mavens being unable to punt a Hulk book combined with very well timed artistic changes. On a personal level, I was all set to drop it and then I saw that Frank Cho and Art Freaking Adams were coming aboard for a 3 issue arc. Those artistic titans were too good to pass up, so I stayed on for those three issues. I've since dropped the book [which is to say I haven't pre-ordered the last few issues], but I can totally understand why others have kept reading it, even if they don't like it.

It's like a bad habit. Hard to drop, even when you want to.

gobo

12-30-2008, 05:14 PM

This statement may be filled with truth...although, if drunk enough, I may enjoy it.

Man I LOVE them. The cheesier, the lower budget, the better. Give me some horrible Troma flicks and a bag of popcorn and I'm a happy man.

Wood's right too, aside from the ridiculous b-movie writing the art has been absolutely spectacular. Possibly the best art of any book in 2008.

zombox

12-31-2008, 02:09 AM

Hey! I resemble that!

We discussed this very topic a few weeks ago and it's a conundrum. So many people openly bash the book yet it's consistently one of the top-selling books. It makes you wonder if the forum/podcasting community is that disconnected from the "mainstream" buyer; I suspect not.

Ultimately what I think we're seeing is a combination of continuity mavens being unable to punt a Hulk book combined with very well timed artistic changes. On a personal level, I was all set to drop it and then I saw that Frank Cho and Art Freaking Adams were coming aboard for a 3 issue arc. Those artistic titans were too good to pass up, so I stayed on for those three issues. I've since dropped the book [which is to say I haven't pre-ordered the last few issues], but I can totally understand why others have kept reading it, even if they don't like it.

It's like a bad habit. Hard to drop, even when you want to.

conorkilpatrick

01-07-2009, 07:12 AM

Augie's review (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=19411) of Loeb/McGuinness' Hulk makes me really want to read it.

johnvferrigno

01-07-2009, 08:17 AM

Augie's review (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=19411) of Loeb/McGuinness' Hulk makes me really want to read it.

It was a really great review. I have a strange relationship with this book. When I buy it, I am always so excited that it is out and it is always the first book from my stack I read. But when I am done, I always say to myself "that was horrible!" yet I am always excited for the next issue. I feel like I am in an abusive relationship with this comic book and I do not know how to get out of it.

mikegraham6

01-07-2009, 02:22 PM

I'm loving the Hulk. The art has been stunning for all 9 issues and it's just so ridiculous that I'm really enjoying it.

It speaks right to my fondness for horrible b-movies.

I need that sometimes, I'm sure I'll get sick of it eventually, especially if it starts showing stronger ties to continuity.
agreed, this is why i don't have a bad time reading it.
as for the reason i buy it? simple, they have some spectacular artists on this book

zombox

01-07-2009, 02:52 PM

That is true... if you want to look at it as a humor book? Its pretty damn good. However, I don't think that's the vibe Loeb wants you to get. Which, to me, makes it a not great book and makes me a sad Hulk fan.

gobo

01-07-2009, 03:31 PM

I'm fairly certain Loeb is trying for funny and over-the-top ridiculous.

He's definitely succeeding at that.

He really doesn't take this stuff seriously at all, at least based on any interviews I've read

cam-

01-07-2009, 03:49 PM

I think it's the fact that the internet community takes so much of this stuff too seriously (myself included). Whereas the "mainstream" buyers can put aside the outrage and enjoy the big crazy fun of it all. Case in point, the outrage around these parts when Rulk was able to wield Thor's hammer. It was met with a lot of "Fuck you Marvel" (at least from Labour, but he says that all the time)

Plus, I'd say it's one of the more family friendly books out there, sure there's some violence, but if I were buying a book for a 6-10 year old this might be it.

And everyone's made the point already, but damn if it's not one of the best looking books out there.

All that said, I've dropped it, EVEN with Frank Cho art, and I kind of hate myself for it.

johnvferrigno

01-07-2009, 05:27 PM

I try not to take things too seriously, especially comics. But there are somethings that are just SO crazy or ridiculous that I have no choice. Rulk is one of those things.

gobo

01-07-2009, 05:28 PM

See I don't understand that.

Why would you suddenly take something seriously that doesn't take itself seriously?

cam-

01-07-2009, 05:32 PM

I try not to take things too seriously, especially comics. But there are somethings that are just SO crazy or ridiculous that I have no choice. Rulk is one of those things.

It might say something about the Hulk's rogue gallery too, I mean how many times can you have Ross throw a bunch of tanks at the Hulk before you need to create a match for him, no matter how contrived it is.

I'm not Mr. Hulk, but I can only think of the Leader, The Abomination, Wendigo and General Ross (who's debatable) as part of the Hulk's ROgues...

I'm sure there are more, but I can't think of them. Maybe it was time for a Red Hulk.

drakedangerz

01-07-2009, 05:38 PM

conorkilpatrick

01-07-2009, 06:12 PM

Okay, I am DEFINITELY buying this trade when it comes out. It sounds like too much fun to pass up.

mikegraham6

01-07-2009, 06:15 PM

Okay, I am DEFINITELY buying this trade when it comes out. It sounds like too much fun to pass up.
we've got to stop encouranging him ;)

conorkilpatrick

01-07-2009, 06:17 PM

I think people that buy this book know exactly what they are getting and are enjoying that. It also helps that Loeb always gets great artist to work with him. There are no shortage of people that only buy a book for the artwork, regardless of how stupid the story might be. I myself don't do that (YET!!) Still, those people don't account for the majority of comic readers...do they? It doesn't explain why this book, and many of Loeb's others, make it to the top of the sales charts. It totally boggles the mind!!

I think it's like CAM says, most of the non-internet fans (i.e. the non-crazy people and yes that includes me) don't care and just enjoy it. If you go to a convention, Loeb is just as popular as any other big name attendee, maybe even moreso.

drakedangerz

01-07-2009, 07:22 PM

I think it's like CAM says, most of the non-internet fans (i.e. the non-crazy people and yes that includes me) don't care and just enjoy it. If you go to a convention, Loeb is just as popular as any other big name attendee, maybe even moreso.

True dat. It takes a certain type of weird to be an internet comic fan. I will admit to checking out each and every issue of the first arc in the store.

I think also that the initial internet hate might have been that people really enjoyed what Pak did with the character. And since the general online argument (not that I agree with it, just stating what I observe) is that Loeb basically shits on continuity, seeing Hulk revert back to a less intelligent character probably ticked off the online hordes.

racemccloud

01-07-2009, 08:40 PM

I think also that the initial internet hate might have been that people really enjoyed what Pak did with the character.

Not a big Hulk guy myself, and I'm not feeling Loeb's Hulk, but I can see both sides to this argument, and this here is a good point. What Loeb is doing is such a sudden departure from what Pak did, and apparently did very well in "Planet Hulk" (although not so well in "World War Hulk"), that Loeb's over-the-top "Hulk" has thrown some people for a loop. It's like the mood surrounding the character changed too suddenly, and people got thrown.

Reading Augie's review, I can appreciate what Loeb has done in making "Hulk" an over-the-top, very "comic book" comic book. But I'm still just going to enjoy it from the sidelines. I thumbed through the latest issue just earlier today on the rack, and I still wasn't feeling it.

Although, truth be told, I have no problem with the idea of the Red Hulk character. I don't want to say "Evil" Hulk, because that's oversimplifying it, but... I guess the problem with that character on terms of power scaling is, you've established for years that Hulk is the "strongest one there is"; how absurdly powerful must this new guy be? But I guess that's where the phrase "over-the-top" comes in, and clearly in this case I can't get myself to embrace it.

johnvferrigno

01-07-2009, 09:56 PM

It might say something about the Hulk's rogue gallery too, I mean how many times can you have Ross throw a bunch of tanks at the Hulk before you need to create a match for him, no matter how contrived it is.

I'm not Mr. Hulk, but I can only think of the Leader, The Abomination, Wendigo and General Ross (who's debatable) as part of the Hulk's ROgues...

I'm sure there are more, but I can't think of them. Maybe it was time for a Red Hulk.

You forgot Zzzaxx, The Absorbing Man, and ummmmmmmm various super-heroes?

johnvferrigno

01-07-2009, 09:59 PM

Okay, I am DEFINITELY buying this trade when it comes out. It sounds like too much fun to pass up.

It IS fun, in a really horrible way. And the thing is, i normally really like Jeph Loeb. i know it seems to be the in thing on the internet right now to bash the guy, but I normally enjoy his work a great deal. I thought hush was very good (and not just for the art) and his various "color" minis for Marvel were all very good. I liked both long Halloween and Dark Victory. I also thought his issue of Buffy the Vampire Slayer was excellent. Ordinarily, if Loeb writes something, I am a fan. Maybe that is why I am so adamant in my bashing of Rulk. I feel betrayed by somebody I usually find so reliable. Anyway, I'm very curious to hear what you think of this book when you get around to reading it.

thenextchampion

01-07-2009, 11:04 PM

You know I can easily tell that Loeb is making this a fun title. It's not like Ultimates 3 or Ultimatium where he is clearly writing to be serious but it comes off as the worst issue ever written in the history of comics. (Until the next issue comes out).

He's just trying to make an over the top, action packed Hulk title which is fine to do. But when you start doing bad jokes, weird characterizations, or just confusing plot points; you start to make a crappy comic. I flipped threw the issues where Hulk is in Vegas:

A) I dont understand why Hulk is in Vegas when he was just fighting Red Hulk (refuse to call him Rulk) in San Francisco.

B) Why the hell can Banner turn into Joe Fixit? Just because he's in Vegas? Then he turns into....Wendihulk? What the fuck Loeb?

It's stuff like that that will make one side really love the title; while others (like me) despise the way Loeb is just half assing a story. This really feels like Loeb had no rewrites or thought into these issues; he just put down what was in his head and gave it to Marvel with no revisions. It feels like that's what Loeb has been doing for Marvel for the last couple of years. I mean he cant even tell if he's working for the 616 or Ultimate Universe; as Ultimates 3, Ultimatium, and Ultimate Hulk Annual has shown.

gobo

01-07-2009, 11:33 PM

a) the rulk fight ended so he headed off for the desert

b) I'm not sure what triggered the Joe Fixit change in the Peter David run, but it could be the same kind of thing here. As for Wendihulk, well he got bitten by a Wendigo

cam-

01-08-2009, 12:10 AM

You forgot Zzzaxx, The Absorbing Man, and ummmmmmmm various super-heroes?

Isn't Zzzaaxx just Thunderbolt Ross all electrified? I could be wrong.

But yes I did forget the Absorbing Man, good one :)

johnvferrigno

01-08-2009, 12:19 AM

b) I'm not sure what triggered the Joe Fixit change in the Peter David run, but it could be the same kind of thing here. As for Wendihulk, well he got bitten by a Wendigo

Peter David didn't actually turn the Hulk back to the original Grey version. That was Al Milgrom, the writer before David. The tranformation was originally becuase the Gamma radiation level in his body was weaker, making him a weaker Hulk, but with more of a mind. The actual physical transformation was triggered by the setting of the sun, not anger.

Being bitten by a Wendigo does not make you a Wendigo. in order to become a Wendigo, you have to commit an act of cannibalism in a particular region of the Canadian forrest (The part above the Pacific Northwest of America? I don't remember and I'm too lazy to look it up right now lol). The Wendigo spirit was tied to this location. Also, there is only supposed to be one at a time, as it is a particular spirit which inhabits the body and causes the transformation. Why their were a pack of Wendigos in vegas, and why they transformed the Hulk by chewing on him, I don't know. I also don't know why I know this much about the Wendigo.

johnvferrigno

01-08-2009, 12:20 AM

Isn't Zzzaaxx just Thunderbolt Ross all electrified? I could be wrong.

But yes I did forget the Absorbing Man, good one :)

I believe one version of Zzzzzaxxxx was an electrified Ross, but usually, he is just a physical form of pure electricity.

gobo

01-08-2009, 12:21 AM

Meh, who cares, it was a fun ride :)

thenextchampion

01-08-2009, 12:21 AM

Peter David didn't actually turn the Hulk back to the original Grey version. That was Al Milgrom, the writer before David. The tranformation was originally becuase the Gamma radiation level in his body was weaker, making him a weaker Hulk, but with more of a mind. The actual physical transformation was triggered by the setting of the sun, not anger.

Being bitten by a Wendigo does not make you a Wendigo. in order to become a Wendigo, you have to commit an act of cannibalism in a particular region of the Canadian forrest (The part above the Pacific Northwest of America? I don't remember and I'm too lazy to look it up right now lol). The Wendigo spirit was tied to this location. Also, there is only supposed to be one at a time, as it is a particular spirit which inhabits the body and causes the transformation. Why their were a pack of Wendigos in vegas, and why they transformed the Hulk by chewing on him, I don't know. I also don't know why I know this much about the Wendigo.

So in short......

Jeph Loeb just half assed the two situations just to keep the issue moving?

johnvferrigno

01-08-2009, 12:37 AM

So in short......

Jeph Loeb just half assed the two situations just to keep the issue moving?

Yeah, that is a much easier way of putting it ;)

mikegraham6

01-08-2009, 02:39 PM

Meh, who cares, it was a fun ride :)
typical Loeb fan right there!
.... wait! what are you doing posting on an internet message board?!?!? ;)

crippler

01-11-2009, 08:10 PM

I read the first 6 issues because this was the biggest, best-looking train wreck I've ever seen. The first 6 issues were so ludicrous that they begged you to read them. It hasn't gotten any better since.

Oh.. and also, I read Hulk because Kahuna Blair drew this picture to commemorate Rulk punching-out the Watcher .

cenquist

01-12-2009, 04:20 AM

Please tell me I can get that on a shirt?

crippler

01-12-2009, 10:04 PM

It damn well SHOULD be on a shirt.

Maybe have a little Jeph Loeb on the back saying "screw you Kirby!" It would sell like hotcakes I'm sure!

optimus187prime

01-12-2009, 10:20 PM

Not exactly on topic I read the first three issues of Ultimates 3 in Borders. Horrible stuff, I recently re-read Ultimates 1 & 2 and came away more excited and pleased than the first time. Its weird how the character seemed to be years removed from the end of volume 2 and the characterizations felt totally off. I have read some of Hulk and I think that was fun how silly it was, this was just disgraceful how off it is.